What's she gonna do? Brother? When Jeff Townsend media runs wild on you? Right, all right, all right, may This is Jeff Townsend and I'm live with Bill DeMont. Bill, how freaking cool was that? Man? Did you feel the anticipation like building up a boom boom? You know, I'm a collector of instruments, and now I have three more. I'm not telling my wife I want I need a piano so I can hit the keys like that. That's a that's an entrance. Man. We could have used some cow bell, though, I think, oh, I have a cowbell. I was at a basketball game the other night and they were somebody who's playing the cowball. When I'm say playing the cow bell, I'm not sure. There's a bunch of different ways to play the cowbell. It sounded just like that Saturday Night Live skit off. You can always use more cowbell. I mean, they weren't even playing that song. But that's instantly where it took me to. You know, man, how you doing. I'm getting some tweets out and some stuff like that right now about the experiences where BDE live. I'm just glad to be back, man. I've been battling this old age thing. I hit that big five to eight last week. Ever since, I've had this wicked, wicked cough that I canot cannot get rid of. I think it's that fifty eight year old cough that I've heard about for all those years. And hey, let me ask you this real quick. How about my boy Crowbar? Yeah, I was gonna say, so, yeah, let's talk about that. So hopefully the Foundation, everything's going well. I do want to actually yeah, everything well, maybe we'll catch up at the end. I want to get back I miss everybody, so I want to get back into the Hey man, that works for me. Sorry, I'm just getting I'm so excited. I'm trying to try to type on my phone and get tweets set out. You know, I was excited, I really and I missed a lot of it because when I tell you, I've been in bed no later than he am every night for the past two weeks. It's been like I get sick once a year, once a calendar year, and it hit me. I you know, with the Foundation, I was in New Jersey. We ran up to New Jersey. We had a couple of schools up there. We ran home. I came home and literally trained trained vehicles. Took my son to a tournament in Jacksonville. So we just go, go go and go go. And by the time we got home, that was it. It was that calendar time of the year and I got I got ill, and I just had this cough. But my main crowbar just coming on and Chris and I. I've known Chris since he's like fourteen years old. He shared that epit in the Story of the Gym. Yeah, he's just uh, just a good guy. Just uh. I always say when I when I speak, depending on who I speak to. One of my favorite things in my whole journey as a sports entertainer and pro wrestler and everything. He's been a coach and I've got to watch this man become so successful in life that I just I'm excited for him. So when I I reached out of the Old City text message and I'm like, hey, listen, men, what are you doing? How about jumping on with my man? And I heard it was a goot I have I've yet to watch it. I apologized everyone, but just to shout out the crowbar, my buddy for jumping in on the on the experience and and it's always you just taking the reins and having another great episode. So thank you guys for putting up with my old ages. A couple of weeks ago, So a couple weeks ago, I was talking with Aaron Stevens. Yes, almost had him on, but he had a commitment he could not get out of. So that was like, oh darn it. Then the next week I already knew he had a commit admit, so it was like, Bill, what are we gonna do? And you said, what about Crowbar? And I said, let's do it. Shitt have my message, yeah, New York point. It worked out well and it was a it was a really cool conversation. Man, we you know, it's always funny. And I told Crowbar post recording, so maybe we tend to get really emotional on this podcast because when and I don't know how. So I shared the honest day in wrestling history with Crowbar, and I lined up things just perfect somehow. So Macho Man is his favorite, kicked it out with that, then went to I don't want to butcher it. But then we went to Eddie Guerrero's last match. Yep, yeah, that's that's Chris. That's Crowbar's favorite match. He's ever had was Averiro. It's very emotional moment there. Then we ended it with the Montreal screwjob, which is actually lining up with his work in wwfah and the following night he shared that he was on an airplane. And then the following night Don Raw he entered the light Heavyweight Championship tournament. So we talked afterwards. He's like, Hey, that's crazy that you know those three things that you just Hey, I'm just that good. Of course I had no I did not mean to do it at all, but I took all the credit, you know. He said, yeah, well you should take the credit because you have this unique gift of lining up the stars every week. And by the way, on this day in wrestling is tremendous. I love it. It makes me feel old and at the same time it makes me feel great because remembering you know, those dates in history, and I tell you this all the time. As soon as we talk about something, he just reignites my love for the business and the memories and stuff like that. Yeah, I took I don't know if he told the story, so I positively did. Like I one of my first w w F tryouts, I took him as my opponent because I trusted him to help me look better than I actually was, and we went and tore the house down for WWF at the time when he was still an up and comer on the Independence. So we have a long history. I'm glad it worked out. I'm sure we'll have him back on. And the funny part is Jeff. Ever since then, my phone goes off once once every other day or something with a lot of my guys going, hey, I'd like to be on the show. I'd like to be on the show. So we may get very interesting going into this holiday season and then to the new year. We are really Crowbars King here you got d yeah, Crowbars King. So we've really since we've done this live experience now is this the third or fourth week, I can't remember, we have seen some growth. We're growing, it's catching on. So we're always thankful for you to joining us live. And if you're listening to this post on watching it on YouTube, or listening on a podcast app, that's fine too. But we do this live every Thursday at nine pm Eastern. It's definitely fun to be part of the experience live. Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's a ball man and it's uh, like I say, like occasionally miss a week or you and I will miss a week, but I've been two weeks missing and it ruins me. It like I'm like, ah, and I'm like I told Lacey, I'm like, I'm gonna swallow as many cough drops as i have to. And so everyone forgive me if I break away and cough or if I take a quick drink. But where do you get through this? The opening sets me off and I'm glad to be back and I'm excited. Man, let's let's let's get down to it. And Vince's mustache. I connected with Vince's mustache on Twitter. Yeah, okay, so Vince's mustache on Twitter, which is his handle for those of you listening, give him a follow. He has been trying. He has been blowing us up with stuff he wants to hear from you about and Vince McMahon's mustache. I don't know if you listen or watch live. The thing about it is if they're watching live on Twitter, we actually don't know because they're not able to comment along like we see Chad do and others doing. Because Twitter, you had to be like a premium member to do it live, So we actually don't know because we're streaming on both of our twitters right now, so we don't really know and don't have that live interaction with them there. So we got to figure that piece out. But nevertheless, Bill awesome sure. By the way, Voldemont experienced at jeff Tshirts dot com. Man, it's a great shirt. I need to get me one. Let's kick it off here, man. So this week you reached Okay, so that was actually today because it happen because it happened yesterday. You reached out to me yesterday about the street fight that took place on a w last night. And as true honor tradition to this podcast, because my great Fridge at the Wrestling Observer, because they love we have me blocked, but we're working on that. But I still consume their content, I guess you could say. And Brian Alvarez is he puts on a he does a show multiple times a week. He commented on this and I want to start it off with Sharon, Brian Alvarez and the rest of Observer talking about it. I could already see the frustration on his face. Sorry, here we go, and then yes, call ye This is just the difference between me and I'm sure everybody in the Chat Powerhouse Taketscha Cage and Kyle Fletcher versus Jericho, Kenny Aboushie and Paul White too dangerous. I mean, god hit each other with bikes, and the bump Kenny Coda Boushi took off that bike, and then Kenny breaks a beer bottle on I think it was on Kyle Fletcher's head. His hands all cut all the heck, and then poor Paul White can't move, He cannot move, and they brawl backstage and him and Hobbes are standing on this platform when they cut to the back and Hobbes, he barely gets the this dude up because they got so little room. It's like he can't even move his feet to better position himself. He has to just hurt this guy up. It's like Hogan and Andre at Mania three. It's it's Heptos or I guess that was Yokazuna and Luga, But anyway, he barely gets this guy up and then he just tossed him off this platform. And Paul White took the most painful, looking, uncomfortable, horrible bump on this car. He dead I'm like, God, is anybody gonna survive this thing? And then finally there at the end, the finish was one Wing and Angel on cage. I mean they all worked hard, like too hard, and just dudes getting killed left and right. If you enjoyed it, happy for you. I was in mortal fear through all of this, terrifying. In spots it says something Bill and Brian Alvarez. Okay, so Brian Alvarez is not quite the have the of an affection that Dave Melzer does for some of the AW stars. But yeah, I don't know what. I don't know if I got it in the beginner or not, I can't remember. But he actually starts out by saying, I know those of you in the chat won't agree. So what he's saying is people are chatting along with him like they are with us here, and they're probably more or less a lot of AW fans that are watching it. So he establishes that immediately before he expresses his concerns of how dangerous it was. I'm going to go the I'm going to go the complete opposite. Ooh, and I'm gonna start by saying, this is not a reflection on any of those talent whatsoever. I am not bagging on anyone. I'm not criticizing it. I'm not even critiquing it. Here's where you lose me. When I watch a Japanese star, Yeah, get on a ten speed bicycle at the top of the ramp and act. Whether he's ridden a bicycle or not is not the point. But he looked like he'd never been on two wheels. He looked like that. He looked like Scott on tough Enough, Yeah, yeah, Or he looked like Phoebe in the show Friends when she couldn't ride a bike. And he had this hype and he drove down the ramp and literally did this Jeff bump, and then drove around the side of the ring, went bump, and then Cage takes his head off and he comes off the bike. That's where you lost me. I don't care who the talent is, I don't care what to do, and I'm not listen. I could get beat up on this. I could get beat up on this all day long, and I stand with the fact of no one can tell me with everything that followed that match, the Paul White bump, the broken glass, the bump, the suit plex the brain buster they took on the bike was ridiculous. Yeah, I'll be the first one. Absolutely, it didn't matter. I was lost on this and people taking bumps. That's where That's where I was at. So what I sent you there when I tweeted out all we're talking about ten speeds and all that, That's what I'm talking about. Like I I didn't. I lost my appreciation for anything that happened after that. You have these amazing talents and that was the spot. So to answer Chad's question here, what still's opinion on that ten Star No Rules aw match last night? I don't have an opinion on it. I thought there was a lot of good stuff in there. I thought it was there's no one's gonna ever say it's not creative. But for all the things they talk about that they and I'm saying what they ae w that they do and for and correct me if I'm wrong, Jeff, because you know better than I do. They claim that they're pro wrestlers, not sports entertainers. Yeah, well, what the what in the blue blazes is that cat driving down the ramp in a tense speed? He can't handle with that? I'm loft? Uh So, my takeaway from watching that, and to Brian Alveraz, his point was he's saying Paul White, for those of you listening, oh yeah, that's big show, the giant. Many is I almost said many names he's known as. That's not the case. It's really only a few. Yeah, but he did look he did look rough. So what do you think is inspired this? Like, hey, we got to get Paul White in on the action? Is that like a Paul White thing? Like you know Paul White? I certainly, yeah. I questioned it when they first announced it, what two weeks ago that he was when Kenny and and Chris were in the ring, they announced the fourth man was Paul White, because you saw him come to the top of the stage, and you know, if you watch it, and if you especially if you know this man and know what kind of athlete he is, you saw him standing very differently and they had to run to him. I forget who ran to him at the time to go feed him to take the bump. But you saw then that Paul wasn't moving. So I don't know if if there's something that he's done while he's been training, because I know he's been training, he's been doing all these things, so I don't know if there's there's an injury. I think it was smart to keep him kind of in one area with him and Hobbs and and just to just to kind of play Devil's advocate to Alvarez, I don't care how much room you have, and unless you've tried to pick up Paul White and I have body slammed him. And no matter how much room you have, you you got a nut up and pick this man up. And to that point there wasn't a lot of room. I, on the contrary, think it was a safe bump, a productive bump, and made sense for that story because he did land hard because he's a monster on the car. But that was the best late plan I think for that part of the match. It just didn't make any sense why he was Wait, what he's doing in it? Nah, they have garrick O in a in a suit, you got you got the jet, you know, one of the most famous Japanese wrestlers of all time on the bike. You've got Omega doing his There's just a lot going on in it. And I realized that point of it. It's not supposed to be taken serious, but I'm just trying to figure out, like, what's say we want to have a run with Paul Whitett this win. I don't think you have it right now? Well do if you do? Do you what do you do? You do? That? Was it? You can't you can't. You can't. How many people that was for the TV audience. Nobody in the arena saw that unless they were on the screen, And how many people are paying attention to the screen when you have you know, the other six guys they're battling in front of them live, so that you know, that was a TV that was for TV production. I just don't see, uh. And I hope he's okay. I hope, you know. I hope uh my man, you know, I call him show because of known forever. That's how I know him. I hope shows okay. But I don't see a storyline coming out of it. And I don't know how else they can protect him going forward. I mean, because it's this week right as of this they we're live and and isn't full gear on Saturday? Yeah, yes, sir, yep. So I I don't know how they can protect him. I hope it's done creatively where it does protect him his character and then also also for his health. Hey, they could do where he may not participate now and they have another, you know, substitute. Maybe that's the big news. I don't know. I'm just you know, every time there's groundbreaking news and big news, I'm always let down. So yeah, I actually you weren't here last week. But actually I don't know if it was last week or week before. I had on this sleigh another huge Tony con announcement. Huge, huge, There's so many huge ones. What's what's left? I mean, Paul White is huge, though I will say that he's a he's a huge. I hope he's okay. But to your point, I don't know if you can get into a program with uh and and to that point, if you're gonna go into a program with is Hobbes the guy who can lead and protect Paul White going forward? I don't know if he has that much experience or or if he's that savvy in the ring yet. Yeah, I don't know either. But my thing is, if you do have one more round with big show, like, what are you doing? Yeah? Excuse me, Paul, Paul Paul White. Yeah, but I think there's an underlying theme here, and I've got another video as we segue into it. There's just a lot of stuff going on. And another friend of your, Stevie Richards. Stevie Richards, has been He has a YouTube channel which I encourage everybody to check out, by the way, where he is breaking down different things that are happening in matches. So he he's breaking down historical things that have happened in matches, Like he's done some great stuff on Brett Harr and Rick Flair. He does some stuff on that he's messed up on two. But I think a lot of the traction's been on what's like what went wrong, I think is what it's called. So there was a match with John Moxley that happened. It was a while ago, now right, I mean in Phoenix, but it was a while ago and John Moxley got dropped on his head basically messed him up big time, yep, instant, And so Stevie Richards, which, man, this is where I get upsets, absolutely and I don't swear all the time, absolute bullshit. Stevie Richards has every right to share this video under fair use and critique it. John Moxley insteadent every right to do that. Agree. So Stevie Richards on his YouTube channel puts up a video with what went wrong. He's gonna analyze it. He's not gonna crap all the way. He's gonna analyze. He's gonna give his opinion, but he's gonna analyze what the exact breakdown and the maneuver, what maneuver that caused him to get injured. So he posts this up AW has it removed within the first hour. I've I actually got to see it before it happened. It was a great analysis of what happened. So Stevie Richards went on to Rene Duprie, you probably remember him, had a recent podcast recording and he had Steve Richards on there and he had Maven tough enough when I'm made, and they talked about this. So I'm gonna go ahead and share that with you real quick. Thanks Mark. Hey, Stevie, can you tell the story on how a few agents called you from AW after your video was don stevens, Oh shit, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got told me this, but I'm not going to say it is. But it was more than one and there's not a ton of them, so you can guess what they had said to me. What they had said to me was that you know, it was universally like you know, and that's what I loved about it. The conversations were two men say, hey, call me, I want to talk. I want to clear the air about this. I can make the call. We talk. It was literally maybe that the first minute or two pleasantryes, how are you doing? And I was like, okay, what's up. I know we got to talk this out and see tell me where I was wrong, tell me where I was right. Okay, you were wrong in saying that the blame is on the agents or the producers. We try to tell these kids what to do and how to be safe. They don't listen, they can't be coached. And then went on for about ten to twenty minutes of telling me how I had no idea how right I was with the video. So they're collecting checks and who can blame them? And for everybody out there. I don't want AW to go out of business. I don't care about Tony conn. I don't care about his dad or any other they'll have money. I care about the people that have paid their dues and are producers back there. I don't care about the wrestlers and their safety. But I care about the people I know that are agents and producers in the company. I want them to get paid for as long as possible. So people want me to think, you know, well, I wish aw to go out of business. No, but I wish them to keep shaking the pockets and the money mark and get their checks. Yeah. No, Listen, if the blame is going to be put on anybody, is the guy who playing promoter because he wants to be the boss. Yeah, he's responsible right around. You're right, but he doesn't know that and he's never gonna have accountability. Well, I said earlier, something bad could potentially happen and then he'll be sorry, just saying we pray that doesn't let's play doesn't get Yeah, I've seen some shit on that show. Oh yeah, will be knocked out in the middle of the ring and they're you know, they're still doing their spots around them. He's you know, he's stiff leg it can of fucking move referees to pull him out of the way. Okay, you're in the way of the spot, you know what I mean. Christ, Well, then dude just have his eye pop out. Then then Daniels's I pop out in the past that Ben was telling me about that his eye came out of the socket. Fruncus horrible, but and his eye was popped out, but he was trying to fight. I heard forever. Yeah, yeah, that's what masala, masala, yeah, fight forever until you and he'll be fighting this weekend. So I guess for context for me and I'm asking you for you and I to talk about it. Was there any backlash on the quote unquote agents or producers? No? Or was was Michael or Stevie Stevie Richards? Was he making sure that it that it wasn't on them? He was saying he was the people in the ring, because I don't think the agents and and this has been a conversation. You and I have touched on it in the past. People have touched on it since the beginning of ab W. It's a free for all. And we've heard this before. You guys got Jerry Lynn, Dimliko Arn Anderson, Billy Gunn, Dustin Rhodes, Uh, Christopher Daniels, all these guys up and down the and Serena deeb who was there, and all these other people that were there and who know better, but they don't really And I I think I've I don't want to quote that, I've heard Martin. We say this. There's certain talent that come to them and ask after but as far as as I understand it, and this is where people can contact you and contact me and let us know what's right and wrong. But from my understanding, it's free rain. So it shouldn't come back on the producers. It shouldn't come back And how are you going to publicly go out and blame Ard Anderson for something that somebody does when clearly it's a free for all because ae W is a is a running car crash and it it really is the point of the in these I mean, come on, Darby, Allen's the the the the case and point in all of this. But I agree with Michael with Stevie and what he's saying, like someone has to be accountable, but it should start at the top from in WWE ww F days you were accountable. Now there's things that talent did in the ring that they were told don't do, and they did it anyway, and then there's a there's a whole kind of hailstorm that happens after that and you can rest sure they don't do it again. But I don't think that's the that's the atmosphere and aw so uh the fact that he got called and it got taken down and everything. Did that mean they took it off their YouTube as well so no one else could see it? Did they totally just act like it never happened. I can't speak to that, but I do know they and they got them with a copyright, which, like I said, under fair use. And he's not even see we're actually playing videos. He is just playing very snippets of moments. Yeah, and he's really analyzing it. Yeah, So let me add a context to which I should have done beforehand. He did make a comment about the agents and how he basically called out everybody. And I'll tell you one thing about Stevie Richards. I don't know him. You do, But even in the clip that we just to watch, you can see how emotional and upset he is getting about it, especially towards the end of the clip. You can just see it on his face. How when he's talking about the accountability and all that, he's literally I mean, he's not just he's not just pissed off. He's literally, he almost seems angry and sad at the same time. It's upsetting. But how can you so I would say the same thing to Michael, how can we How can we hold the the agents and producers accountable when the boss doesn't hold them accountable because all the talent has to do is go over their head. And there's no hierarchy in aw from my understanding, it's one guy, the head of creative and all these things and maybe Danielson have ever heard is going to be part of the creative team now and hopefully Adam Copland's involved, blah, but there's gotta be there's gotta be a change in the regiment. And so yes, the agents or producers should be held accountable because if they knew and here's the phrase, if they knew that was gonna happen, they should have done more than suggest Maybe not tonight. That being said, I'm I'm gonna go on records saying I'm pretty sure John Moxon is gonna do whatever the hell he wants. When he was referencing the agents in that moment, he wasn't referencing that moment because obviously we didn't know that he was gonna drop him on his head, right, I mean we didn't know, nobody knew that ahead of time. But there's no accountability. So when when do the agents and producers start being held accountable? Because I can speak from working on that side of the cameras, you are held accountable. And guess what, you won't be an agent or producer for a long time if you can't keep your talent safe and keep your your collective form of talent that you have. And you're there to guide and all these other things. You're not only there to guide and make suggestions. You're there to for a TV product. You're because you have years of experience, you have an understanding of what the boss wants, and you have understand what the product is. Here the here's the problem for me, who knows what the bash facts? Because everybody's calling their own shots anyway. Yeah, that's just And and so when I saw this earlier this week, I watched it the same the clip, the same clip that he showed and and yeah, Michael's gonna get the you know, he's gonna look And I saw ma even sitting back because maybe it seems, you know, he's seen his share of it, much like renee. But you know, Steve's been hurt in the ring. He understands the the repercussions and all these things, and he understands where the accountability lies. And it's not just with the producers of it. It's with the boss, and it's with these things keep happening. And then to that point we talk about fast forward to Daniel's I and all these and then hell, let's talk about the other night with the bike. But someone's gotta say, we have a big show that people are gonna pay to watch. Why are we doing things? And and let's talk business giving it away for nothing on a Tuesday night when we're not gonna do that on full gear or whatever. And so so that wrap, we can go down this rabbit hole all night long. I don't I don't understand the mindset. I don't. I'm not saying the creativity and no one does it and thinks they're gonna get hurt. But to that point, it's gonna happen at any given night in this industry. But if we can eliminate it, and if you're a top guy in this company, then you have to start thinking like a top guy. You have to start thinking past the one night of two thousand people. I agree with you, and now Stevie's got me all work further elaborate on what I was said after the video ended and Brian Danielson is wrestling upcoming. I mean I was actually, they're gonna have to ask some face contraption, I mean obviously, and he says I don't want one, and they'll say, Okay, you don't have to wear one. So you talked to a touch up on a little bit about WWE and how that. So, have you ever been in a situation WCWW ECW, You've been everywhere where you're working with somebody and I'm not saying you hurt them, Maybe they're hurt in there, and what's your experience with how to handle that? You go with what the guy? I mean because we hear stories about this all the time from some of the best wrestlers ever. Hear Kurt Angle getting severely concussed, actually knocked out, briefly coming to and they carry them through the match. Do you just go with what the person tells you they can or can't do? I mean, what else can you do? Well? There has to be and again the industry has changed. I think it's evolved, right, you stop dealing with Hey, I got my bell wrung. I'm okay, let's keep going right now. The referees are accountable. All these people are accountable for what happens to those two men, two women, for men, for women, whatever is in the rate. But for me. When my very last match in ww E, when I hit my flip and Sean O'Hare moved, and that's what he was supposed to do. When I landed, I could not move from my chin down. I was paralyzed, both arms, both legs, nothing moved. And I said to the referee, he's got to cover me. Corpus Christi, Texas, never forget it. It's better than my brain forever. Know. Hair didn't want to do that because he knew one that wasn't the finish of the two I was going over and this is where we were going cover me, and I had the trust that he wasn't gonna pick me up or try to pick me up or move me around or something like that. The end result is he covered me one two three. Corpus Christie was and show, oh here's what these matches they didn't expect to finish, and they carded me. You know, to the back. You have to trust the guy you're in the ring with to do the right thing. And that's where the I think that's where the I always talk about critiquing and criticizing, But here's where the criticizing comes in. If that guy just pushes you aside and keeps doing his stuff, or keeps going on with the match as it was planned or talked about or or kind of laid out, then shame on that guy and I would never get in the ring with him again. And if I could stand up and clear my head, we probably fight. Because if you're telling someone that you're in need a change nowadays, it's different. Back then, you got your bell rung, you kept going, you know what I mean? Yeah, but you couldn't let I mean you're saying he couldn't move any limbs. Well, that was I'm just using my example. I'd been knock out that on behalf of yourself. And in case of like a John Moxley, he actually said do it again or whatever. I don't want to quote him, but yeah, but that but that's when I say, like, I'd rather have words with John in the back, because one you're knocked out, so you're not thinking clearly anyway, but he knows something's wrong. We'll do it again and make it more impactful. I'll fight with you in the back. I'll just cover you and beat you right there. Shoot, cover you and beat you right there. Because it's already the storyline. Everything screwed up anyway. And then how much of that one on the referee though he's the one that blatant la just didn't count. The referee is accountable for that, and that's the that's the thing I was going back earlier about with with Stevie Richards. There's no accountability. The referees are part of the show. They're they're one of the boys. They're and not the referee shouldn't be, but they're one of the they're they're in on it. Let me do my shtick and all that stuff too. That referee should have stopped that match and then reaped the the tongue lashing and all the fallout in the back, and then Maxie would have been healthy. Who was the Penta or Phoenix or whoever it was, And yes it's the belt changed and all these things. It wasn't gonna supposed to happen anyway, So what good did it do to do it again? It's weird. Is even more weird that Moxley followed it up with the Sports Illustrated article I don't know if you ever read it about how he thinks, and he explained it throughout some ideas on some concussion protocols. I mean, we got we got the thing where where people hated me as running the developmental system and the whole training systems. We implemented the head gear and people go, I'm a grown ass adult. I'm not wearing headgear to protect myself. I know what I'm doing. Okay, Ete met go go over my head whatever. But you're wearing the head gear. There's a progression in the business and it's called longevity and and there and I can't speak for aw I can I can touch on my time in w w E w W F. Once there's now even a thought that you've got your bell wrong or you've got look at Rick Assy right now, he's out and all these things happen, but there's a there's a protocol. Now that happens. You have to get clear. You can't just you can't just come out and say no, I feel fine, look at the NFL. As fans, we're getting pissed because our favorite player has now been taken out of the game and we didn't think it was that serious. It doesn't matter it the longevity of it. And I think it goes back to the thing of referee, the boss, the talent, and the agents all have to be on the same page. And if if that match is so important that it's risk that everybody's willing to risk everything, then let the cards gold where they may. But there's no accountability. And that's the part as a as a former talent, as a former producer, and a former head of developmental every that's the thing that fires me up is that people want to throw stones at the little things. But let's talk about the big picture. That referee has probably never been dropped on his head or had his bell rung or anything else. I'm trusting that referee. I trusted my Kyota, I trusted Jimmy Corderis. I trusted that, I trusted Mickey j I trusted you know, Hilda Brand every referee. I trusted that if something happened, you do the right thing. Am I gonna be mad because I didn't go over? Probably? Am I gonna the next day apologize forracked like a jackass. Probably, but other than my opponent, I have to trust the referee's gonna do the right thing. And the fact that he got a phone call justified that what he was saying was right. But hey, don't do that to us. Then what's what was the phone call for? I think, out of respect dev Richards an explanation of what had happened. I think it's just more clarification on the things we talk about all the time. Yeah, and here's the thing, I'm pretty sure I don't know, so I'm just gonna guess. I'm pretty sure Billy Youngishiki's head. I'm pretty sure Jerry Limshiki said, I'm pretty damn sure Ernie Anderson, the king of head and neck injuries, is shaking the head. This is unnecessary. I'm pretty sure Mark Henwy's gonna come on. I'm sure some of the veterans you know better, we're going this. This can't keep happening. But then turn around, Daniels, around you these bike things unless they and unless they really the inmates are running the asylum, and nobody's running through all these things. So the comedy part, I don't think anybody ran through the fact that he was gonna run down. But there's the comedy. But then the fact that you're gonna pick up a tense fet bike and throw it at Omega, your top guy, and if that pedal catches him in the eye or rips his you know, rips his gums out or whatever, it is bad enough he cuts his hand up on the beer ball. Oh that was cut. Yeah, I mean, so, so where is the what's the payoff here? And who's accountable? Like who's signing off one all this? Well, I certainly I'll say you can't. I can't fairly compare it to when you had wrestled to now, just because we know so much more now, right about head injuries and uh yeah, I'm with you, I think. And they brought up a great point. At the end of the day, it's Tony Kahan's business. I mean, yes, that's that's who it starts with. That's who it ends with. And if you're gonna make me feel like I'm replaceable and you're just gonna keep letting things go that way, Listen, there was a time in my career and I talked about it in my book. I talked about it openly. There was a time when I had so many head injuries and concussions, they weren't going to let me back. I forced my way back in. And there was a time when I was working with land Storm with I would my eyesight would go and I would just see a white sheet in front of me. And all I had was Lance Storm's feel and his command, whatever word he used, I had the trust that he kept me safe. Was that the smartest thing to do me? No, what I'd be the first one to say. But it was a different business. It's not justifying it. But now we have people saying, you don't need the work like that anymore. You don't need the work hurt. We're gonna take care of you. But we're not hearing that there. We're seeing a lot of hurt. We're seeing a lot of you know, we're seeing a lot of just let the inmates run wild. Yeah. Yeah, I catch a lot of crap for my aw comments. And I don't have anything against anybody there, And I'm certainly agreeing with Stevie Richards and all of them when they spoke. And just for you that are joining now, we shared a clip from Reneea Priest and James's podcast and make sure you check it out. Yeah. And Stevie Richards talked about the incident of his video being removed where he was breaking down the John Moxley injury the concussion. But I certainly agree with me. You don't want anything to happen with aw You don't want it to do bad. You wanted to do well. Yes, and you could. And I think going back to his emotions, you could see how emotional and how heartfelt it was. How when he said that he he likes did he's get everybody's getting paid? Yeah, he understands that. Let let me ask you this as a as a fan of the business and someone who I consider a historian and someone who's followed the business for a long time and appreciates this industry, do you think that the men and women are replaceable as long as you see a product there? Is that what you care about as a fan, or you get invested in the people that you watch, and you watch the show for that reason you touched upon it. That's exactly what I was gonna say. You come, you come back and continue to watch because you're invested in the characters and in the stories. It's not necessarily something that if you had no reason to come back, you you would you. I mean you come back because, like you to your point, you're invested in what's happening and the people that are there, and you hear guys. So people think it's hypocritical because you'll hear guys like McK foley, or you'll hear guys like Tommy Dreamer, or you'll hear the hardcore guys from fit Findley, myself, guys who have been in ECW, TAZ, all these things that we used to do and not justify by saying, well, we did it better. It was a different time, it was a different mindset, There was a different way of doing business, FMW WING, all those places we were in Japan, bot wire, steel, cage matches, all these things that we did. Would we do them now? I would never do them now. But you learn from And so if the guys that did it and survived it are saying, hey, you don't need to do it now. If you're gonna do it, at least have a build to these special things that you're gonna do, put your freaking body and livelihood on the line. Exactly what Krobar is saying we're exactly what Kar and I each just the crow wire from day one because he wanted to do the dipsy dews every night of why and he even said that he's yeah, I mean you know, so you you have here's John and I'll use John Moxy as my point. I mean it's with all due respect, we saw John Moxy go away from the program for a while because he he wiite to take care of himself his health. Yeah, you gotta love guy like that. You gotta love about who recognizes us. He needs to be better as a person, a father or husband and a entertainer or wrestler. But then why do you why do you let these other things happen? Where's the importance in this man's life and in his lively? You know that? To Stevie's point, we're all in this to make money, but there's gotta be a little longevity to it. It's just it just really comes back down to the accountability and what is Tony Kahan? What's the big picture, what's the what's the end game here for ae W or are we just gonna go flash in the pan till people aren't interested anymore because they see the same thing all the time, and the regulars aren't there, and then they're there, and then they're not, and then they're there, and the people that are coming in they don't follow, and then aew slowly fades away. What's the endgame here? Because you can't have people, you can't have people telling you take it down. We agree with you, and we know they don't listen, and we know that, but we're gonna put it on TV anyway, because we have a product without it. We're eighteen hundred people in Ontario, California. I agree with you, man, I I well, I struggle with it. I know we're gonna stay, but no, it's all right, and I just think it's and it just seems to be the way the business is conducted there. I don't I don't know if it's you keep using the quote inmates front of the Asylum. I don't know if Tony Kahan just falls victim to that just out of being a fan or out of being a friend, you know. I I certainly don't know because I'm not there, and I like the product and I watch it every week. But there's different, definitely some underlying facts of how you question how it goes moving forward. I don't think AW is going anywhere. I think there's a certain fan base that will watch it no matter what. Yeah, I improve that there's some diehard AW fans and they love to go after me on Reddit. I know they're out there, Bill. I think the fan base is actually getting smaller. And this isn't something that says, hey, AW should go out of business. It's it's just that you you have, You had guys on that clip that you showed Stevie Richards, Maven Renee. You have guys that talk about this all time, you and I and people have been in this business for a long time that are just giving you the inside perspective. Yeah, kind of like behind pulling, you know, pulling back the kernel little bit and giving you the inside perspective. This is not this is not a shot at the talent. This is not a shot at anything. But for the love of Pete, pet yourself and like, as much as you hated being told by your boss, your producer, you can't do that tonight, at the end of the day you were thankful and they give your reason why. And I don't I don't know if that's going on, And that's just that's just us Paul, it's not the bash ew because I do watch it every week now I turn it off or there's things I watch and go I can't, you know, But that's that's me. That's not that's not that's not the wrestling fan me. That's the that's the thirty five plus years of me going ah, you know. I just hope that they're for the future, and I don't know. I just hope they're having an it a strategic approach to how they're doing things, and they're there's a whole team behind a tow when they where they make decisions, and also they review the success of the stuff that they've done, ye know, whether it's analytically or whatever. I just hope that's the case with AW. It certainly has the impression there that it's just a yeah, uh friends club. You know. I don't know, And again that's the that's like the insider's perspective. I don't think. And this is why I don't. Sometimes I feel like it's a good conversation, and sometimes I think it's bad because I don't want to make fans jaded towards the product. I don't want to make fans jaded towards you know, characters and and the storyliners they're trying to tell that's not the intent here. The intent is just to talk about like the subject at hands so and it comes from a place of and I won't claim to speak for Michael or Stevie Richards, but it comes from a place of passion and respect for the business and and a healthy respect for the people that do this on a on a nightly you know level. What's What's What's in the AW conversation with a clip here from K one hundred. It's a podcast, it's been I've been listening to it for a while, so many years now. It's uh Conan Disco and Ferno and of course my friend Joe that produces in and runs the runs the show does, puts in all the work. They had a conversation here and it's about Adam Copelan and AW. And they had a listener write in and ask if he had comparisons of Brett Hart smooth to WCW. I want to share that here, jed Aw. So far you guys were WCW Brett HARDJOWCW does Editjdaw remind you that so far seems like he wasn't from being a huge w B superstar, just a cooled off guy in three weeks that no one cares about me. AW. Hopefully he can turn around. That's from John. Like I said, he's only been there three weeks. I mean, it's not you know, I'm definitely not going to like critique critique him thus far until he has like at least like four or five months in there. You know what about you, It's so weird to me because he almost feels out of place, probably because I've seen him in WW for twenty five years and that's what I'm used to seeing him. He just feels out of place. You know. Maybe you know, I'll get more used to it. But I have a feeling, and I don't know why, but that when he has like his last last match, I think you'll have it there, even if it's just one match. Yeah, I mean, ever since he came back to w which is one of the great Rumble surprises. I liked most of his stuff, A lot of his stuff. But if you think about it, when AW fans would have a list of guys, can you imagine if they were in AW punk Brian Cole, Joe, those guys you never really heard AW fans say, man, we could really use Edge. I just don't know that that he's one of their guys that they really will support, you know. But I guess we'll find out. Well, not only that you're getting saturated with a lot of WWE talent, you know your talent too. Yeah, okay, so yeah, make sure everybody give credit again to KPE hundred for that clip. Make sure you check them out if you haven't. But good discussion there. I think it's a I don't want to admit that Disco gave a good answer, but I will admit and I that would all do love for for Glenn, you know, and you and I have talked about this. I think there was a huge build up to to Adam coming to ae W. I think there's there's definitely room for people to say, well, he's kind of cooled off, but to that point, he's always been. He's only been there for you know, a cup of coffee so far. So I think going into the by the by the time we end the holiday season, going to the new year, you have a better idea of what he is or isn't going to do. But I you know, that's the thing if fans see that and they are asking that question. That's their perspective, and I don't think it's a wrong one, but I like the answer of well, let's wait and see to to to uh to k Dogg's point, you know, he read hot for twenty five years and now just kind of the show, Well, he's got a point that if you continue to add to do it if you guys. As a takeaway from Yes and you and I, you and I talk about this at length almost every episode, like here's the big news, here's the big news, and it's it is great news, and it's a wow. Edge is here, right, Adam Copland's here, and then it's kind of what else are we gonna do? Yeah, and it's Rick Flair's here, So now Adam moves to the back burner, and Flair was there, and now this one's here's a big signing for full year and then and then Flair's gonna move to the back burner, and then you know, it started with Mark Henry started a big show. I started with Christian Cage, started with Jericho, you know, and and all these things. So it's it's always gonna be something to move somebody to the back Burner. But you have Edge who's a Hall of Famer, right Hart hall of Famer, And I think it's a good comparison. I think it was a fair both fair answers and and things from k Dog and Gilbertie. But I think they have a point. By by the time we're going through the New York we're still going, hey, I wonder what they're gonna do with Adam Copeland. While back Joel Embiid is a player for the Philadelphia seventy six ers. He had a celebration in a game and he was fining thirty five thousand dollars for it. So as we segue out of the more intense that we talked about, I'll show you what he got fined for it. Okay, they have him now and it was one of the best pickups at the off season. Ten beat and the Lion gets the bounce and won and letting the crowds know that he's excited about that basket. You have a bout. I mean, you're just talking about a seven footer who does not have a small body to generate that force to have that speed. She's just critiquing it, and she's just talking about the play. You think she has any idea what he's like, what that's from? You beat me to the point, neither one of them understood the reference of why he did that. No, neither one of them had any understanding of professional wrestling a sports erteament of DX of the the crots chop and all that stuff. So here, but here's where we are in sports. That's not the way they want to be perceived. That's why they're sports and we're sports entertainment. Because even now they can't get away with that. There's there's gonna be someone in the you know, in the news stations or the TV stage or something. Hey, we don't want the cross chop anymore, you know. But for this obviously didn't understand it, because they also showed her several replays of it. Yes, and listening to the commentary, that's what makes it great. That's why pop, if if I was a beep, I do it every time I pay the thirty five thousand dollars. Until they understood the reference of why he did it. But hats off to the crossover of athletes who understand what that means. I mean, we see kids on the football field, dude, in high schools and stuff. Everybody knows what that means. But you know, we got words for you, you know, And that was a great segue. It was. It was a great and it's the funniest stuff there's So there might be two of the only sports comment theators on the planet right now who don't understand the reference. So I think it was worth the thirty five K thirty side. Okay, just a normal day at the office. Recently, Bill, I don't know, there's a lot of YouTube videos out there people talking about you. Oh no, recently you were mentioned on the Credangle podcast. Do you wear of this? No? I wasn't. Well, that's all we're gonna share. Next. Then Kernangle. Does I like Kurt? Well, hopefully he didn't. No, no, No, it's not a bad one. Paul is a is a good guy. He does a podcast with per and they talked about an instance where you helped Kurt Angle out. We'll share that here, and then you and I had just talked about it's in the archives, but no way out two thousand and three, just a few weeks ago, about your short match at Madison Square Garden where you filled in for Hunter, and also then the handicap match at the pay per view. After Edge's injury, there was the same match five days later in South Africa. Do you have any memories of that trip over in South Africa? Yeah, Well, the bastard broke my neck in no way out, so I didn't know it was broken. And what happened was my arm one completely numb. I could barely raise my left arm. And I'm in South Africa and excruciating pain, and they want me to wrestle on this match and I'm like, I can't do much. They said, just get in there, do a couple spots, and you know there's gonna be five guys in that ring, so you won't have to be in there most of the time. So the whole issue though, going over there with my neck broken, being uncomfortable the whole time flying over. They flew me on business class, but they also had first class. And what happened was Bill DeMott, one of the guys in the office, he had a first class seat because they were overbooked in business class, so he ended up getting a first class ticket. He got lucky. And what he did is Bill offered me that first class ticket so I could sit first class and be more comfortable. On the wh which is really cool of Bill. Yeah. Absolutely, so listen, that sets the stage for where we're at now. Yeah, So there you go. Bill. Do you remember this moment here? Yeah. And and at that time, I wasn't part of the office. I was. I was still actively wrestling. It was coming close to the end of my run there. But I remember that trip, and it was a hellacious travel schedule. I mean, we were on the plane forever, stopping a layover. There was brutal we weren't allowed off the plane, that kind of stuff. And I do remember that. But that goes back to and and I have to say I was a Kurd Angle fan from the mid I met him. I did not get to work with Kurt in the ring. I had a couple of backstage things with Kurt during the years and things like that. Big fan of Kurt Angle always made me laugh. That son of the Gun had a great sense of humor. But I remember that, and you knew he was hurt. You have to know the roster and the guys that are listen, Kurt Angle and those guys were were the headliners. We we we were thanking them for the house every night. Now we were going over to million dollar houses in South Africa and this guy was in pain. So what what difference was it? You know, where I sat? What sort of play for that long? Who who shifts a git? As I always say, where you're sitting? But that that's Kurt Angle. He's paying the way. And I remember when we got when we actually landed and got to the first arena. If I remember I Kurt got taken out on a stretcher just so he didn't have to move nothing he needed to be stretched out, but just so he could stay immobile. So I remember that quite well. And and thank you, Kurt. I appreciate that a lot. I'm a I'm a big turd Angle fan, and I do see but that I said every week you take me back to uh back to the history. This my my, my partners business. And now I appreciate those kind words. And but that was that was the rules man. I mean, no matter who you were on the card or who you thought you, whether I was in the office or not, that's kurd Angle. And I'll say the way I feel. I'm build them up. People know who I am. But that's kurd Angle. He's paying, you know, he's helping me pay my mortgage. He's helping me pay you don't pay my rent. So so whether I was wearing, whether I was wearing a suit or a sweatsuit, Kurt was getting that seat. So I appreciate that. Shout out to Bob Orton's cast for sharing that clip. He wanted to make sure you think you were aware that you had made the kurd Angle pod. I had no idea. I appreciate that. Vince mcman's mustache, I got to queue it up here. He has been asking for weeks, Bill, your thoughts on a video that went viral not too long ago of a guy wrestling a tent, yes, a camping equipment, a tent. Do you remember when he had reached out and asked for this, Bill, Yes, I remember when he reached out because I actually answered him and then I fell to the old man illness. Well, I told him to hold off and get it to me so you can see this live and react in the moments. Got quite a stare down. Who escape They're nice reversals. I mean, these these two used to be the closest of friends. They they were partners. Basically, Oh king among men, whoa nicely done? It's got to looking good. Oh ripped the tent? Oh good? Oh that no one has any idea? What's going on in there? Oh? Oh goodness? Where we go fighting with those art Oh? Hey, no love lost between these two competitors. What's this? No, not on the floor. There was no padding on that floor. Oh that's Did that signs a wrestling revolver? Yes? Is that make something? That's his name? Might Jake something? I don't know, Bill, Okay, I'm gonna now. I have to do my homework. Here's where? How do how do I not get in trouble for this? Jeff? How do I what? How am I supposed to make? I need your help? How should I answer Vince mcman's mustache? I think he just wants to know what you think about a wrestling match with a tent and how the guy did And absolutely imperative that people should learn how to wrestle a tent. When I broke into this business, and and guys in my generation and before me and after me, you wrestle the broomstick, you wrestle the towel, you wrestled the invisible man. These are all things for you to hone your skills, get a little creative start to loosen up, come out of your your comfort zone because you did it in front of your peers and your but you didn't do it in front of a bunch of people that paid for it. And then what match was he on the card? Was? What was the build up to this match? What does it? Yeah? What was the where's the return match in Yosemite Park? What report? What are the other what are the other people who are gonna go out there and work hard supposed to do? And what are other people gonna think after that? Because you just shit on the whole show. So part of me wants to go, hats off to you. Very creative. It doesn't belong in front of a live audience, Like if you're gonna do that by yourself, nobody in the arena and did that. That's a funny clip, and you and I be having a different conversation. But apparently they have it where they put it out. It was on YouTube and all this other stuff, and there were people paid for it. And so here's my point. The people are reacting the same to him wrestling a tent as if he was wrestling another human opponent. The referees are the same. So this business is a laughing. Stop this business. It's just a joke, and so it supersedes the entertainment part of it because there's no reality in that whatsoever. Very creative, very using, he worked hard. I'm giving you all the positives I could possibly give you, but it doesn't belong in front of a paying audience. And then what's gonna make me come back? So I can watch the next buffoon do something and so and then who followed that? And about even more pissed off? So I'm corn I think it's a great creative thing to do. I think it's a great exercise in in wrestling to be able to do that, But it doesn't belong in in what we do in front of people and to be out there for people to see. Because what what? What would I hire him for? What would I hire him to do? Some other campaign equipment? I mean unless I'm uh, what's the bass basque pro? He could be a sports uh you know, a promotional person for basque pro sports or something. But as as a promoter, what would you hire him to do? Jeff? It would have to be uh something more outrageous, I guess, Uh, would you spend a lot of money in investing him or would he be a one and out. He'd be a one and out. Yeah, I mean, but if that's your thing, that's your thing. So the guy in aw flipping the pizza had a few weeks come on man and yeah we're is he now? Everybody? Everybody wanted to interview him. He had interviews and he was all over and he had a couple of bookings. I'm the ways to do that's probably flipping beats and if that's his thing, cool, But if that's Jake who I think it is good on you, but bad on you, Will said, Will said, thank you visick Man's mustache for sharing a clip. Yeah, you really tore you. You're torn. You don't know what to think? Yeah, okay, we'll say last thing. My favorite part of the clip was when he was back craying and as as if he was being drugg into the tent ye like like there was all the ring of the other tect was all on through the ring. Okay, it's that time. It's this time of the show where we go on to on this week in pro wrestling history. Bill of course, I had these on Facebook. It's on every social media platform, Instagram. It's one of my favorite things I watched. I also I did get a lot of heat this week, which I absolutely loved because I missed I had a type A copy and pasted my typo last week on a Macho on a mashra Man one the video or this week, Man announced that the maschro Man was leaving yep, and people just went nuts. I loved hundreds of comments about my typo. One guy actually insulted me about how dumb of a content creator I was, and he actually, uh had a typo he said. Instead of saying I needed to act my age, he said, you need to act your put act your post. But anyway, nevertheless, so thank you for the post and bringing that back up. But let me let me become the grammar police and let you know that you type close senate okay on this week for a wrestling history on this day. So let's go back to the Monday, which was the thirteenth. This is the Yeah. November thirteen, two thousand and five, ten A Genesis was held at the Impact Zone on Orlando, Florida. On the show, Christian Cage made his first TENA appearance. And you know, I'm an absolutely huge Christian Age man, so I have to share it. Let's get to go in here, Christie Cage. The rumors are cracked. Here's paying the job that is on that week. Well, I'll tell you this much, christ I can't tell you this much. I didn't come here to see the same guy come out and say the same damn thing week after week after week for months and months and months. And I didn't come here to see a grown man dressed up like a doctor pulling things out of an their man's ass. And you can be damned sure I didn't come here because I got fired. Heye jump. The one thing we both can agree on is the most important and prized possession in this sport, the NWA World Heavyweight Championship. That's just gone. So I want everybody right now to stand up and take notice that Christian Cage is here and Christian Cage will fulfill his destiny, because that's how I rule. What an awesome moment. You know what comes to mind? Jane leaves vice. I'll say vice, but you know WW. Everybody just says vice. What is WW? So Christian leaves wwe goes to TNA clearly raises the level of everything. Yes, so much so that W w wants him back, doesn't know what to do with him, in my opinion, does some stuff, but doesn't do you want you got a title right out of it? Yeah, but but wasn't it wasn't done right, you know, it wasn't a big ride. It was just okay. And then Christian's done with w w E again. Those two a Donna the best. Yeah, the best work is up there, the best work of his career on fire in my opinion, clearly sometimes and this is this is the difference. I guess what I'm trying to say. W w E is so in tuned to what a talent can do, they don't want them doing it somewhere else. Christian Cage is the the measuring stick for that, because other companies will take WWE talent or former ww talent, bring them with on the ww T accolades, and not do anything with them. Christian, no matter where he goes, is steadfast and true. He's the Dick Clark of professional wrestling. He doesn't he ages great, his work is at the top of his game. I'm a huge fan, but it just when I was watching that and I remember it when I was watching him going and every time he's moved. He's moved. Lady, can't hold that. You can't hold that back. Not many people can say that. Yeah, that's that's my point. There's not we were talking about, you know, like the Adam Brett Hart thing. Right, Christian, no matter where he goes, no matter what he does, he rises and continues get Jericho to me during the scene. Yeah, what do you remember though, backstage when this happened? Obviously the okay, so there's a there's this lines up with another tragic thing that we'll talk about next. But was it he had really talked about it? Kind of seems like he just snuck out the back door and went, you know, for for the guys in the back and the boys the back, that you better drop the ball. You're good. Good for him. I mean, I don't know if anybody that wasn't rooting for him. I mean, he's just to me, he's just that kind of man. Yeah, Christian Cage with Christian one of my favorites. I see what you're saying. You know that nobody was like screwed him, and then no, everybody's rooting for him. I'd never heard I'd never heard the harshest words I've ever heard about Christian is he's so freaking headstrong and sticks to what he believes, and we'll fight for that. If that's the biggest problem you have in him, shut up and listen. You know what I mean. But I remember that tired. Everybody's really happy for him go. We screwed up. Should never let him go, should have done more. There's so much what it could have been done, and that was you gonna go do it? Constantly stayed in the NATI event spot as we found there. Yeah, and did a lot of great stuff there. I still do this day, go back and watch that. A lot of that TNA stuff. There's about a really about an eight year period there where they did some really good stuff and he was a huge part of that. So yeah, I remember this happening and I got I'm sorry as being I'm a really big Christian Cage fan. I'll say that again there. I really I'm not just saying that to win points or something. I remember. I actually still have several of his wrestling shirts. I remember to me when he made that, because obviously I'm not end the business. I remember watching him when he made that jump, and he did some single stuff before he did, but he is primarily a tag team guy. But I remember watching it and thinking, oh my gosh, this guy is the ultimate I know you hate the term heel, but he is man. Yeah, he gets it. Look at the time that he was injured in ae W yes, ir relevant, still red hot and keeps I say, he keeps recreating himself, but he doesn't. He's the same guy. Yeah, he just accentuates it differently every time. He gets better and better. And he's smart enough to know who would be in the ring with where to go with these things. And yeah, he's he's at the top of the list. And and here's a guy who's stuck under the radar for a long long time. But you would have talked about a fair of the business, and knowing the business, he's in the tops man. Actually that's the On November thirteen, two thousand and five, Eddie Guerrero is had found that in his hotel room. So let's jump ahead a day and Monday Night, Raw did a show in honor of Eddie Garrero. I'm not I'm not sure if you remember this, but they dedicated the whole show to it. They really basically put all the storylines aside for that this day, and they just kind of went about it, and I thought that was really special. So they opened it up with a ten bell salute and we're going to go ahead and share that there. And it's a sad to watch, but we'll go ahead and share this ten bill salute here. Eddie Garrero has passed away, so tonight we celebrate the life of Eddie Garrero. Eddie Garrero loved this business. Eddie loved to perform more than anything else, whether he's boot or whether he was cheering, Eddie's goal every night was to steal the show. Tonight, as we paid tribute to the memory of Betty Guerrero at this time, I would ask you all to stand in silence as we told the bell ten times v the rut of very emotional moment. I think for what stands out for me because later things get more tragic. But chrispin Wall's reaction here he is Eddie two thousand and five, right next to my buddy Mike Lockwood Crash Holly. I was in uh, I was running deep south in Atlanta. Oh. I got the phile call, many phone calls, and I'll just I'll just say this, anybody who had the opportunity to talk to Eddie just once probably never understood it. You had to know Eddie, you had to know what drove him. And I'm one of those what sounds like met a. There's many people, but I'm one of the few people that ate with Eddie, slept in the same room as Eddie, worked with Eddie, partied with Eddie, drove up and down the road with Eddie. You you got caught up in his passion for this business and then so there was no way not to get caught up in his his personal life. And if you were fortunate enough to be that close to him where you knew him in a personal way. I mean, it doesn't it doesn't go away. In my in my garage, I have a gym for my son and in the garage, and maybe I'll take a picture and post it because we're talking about it. I have the the you know, the poster of the Lai Cheen Steel pay per view uh poster that he did. And I have certain things of the Guerrero family. I've been with the Guerrero family since my Mexico days, and so I've gotten to know all of them and just just tragic man just uh, the journey, the the ins and outs of the Eddie Guerrero's story and just being with him through every aspect of that journey. It's just h And it seems like yet, you know, it seems like yesterday. It seems you know, when there's certain things when you hear news, you go, Man, I hate to say I saw that coming, you know, or you know, it's just someone you know, you just back back in the day, and if you talk to enough people, you hear about it. A thing they used to call the deadpool, right, different names are in the Deadpool, and they'd give a timeline on when guys were going to expire. Guys or girls we're going to expire, and they Eddie wasn't one of those guys. And just I don't think anybody's prepared for it. And my heart still goes out to that whole family in his cage that I knew his kid, I know Vicky very well, and to see sal Chabo like that, and I remember when Chado was in his room to get into the room to get to Eddie. So man, So it's a long time in the two thousand and five now, man, almost twenty years now. So it's uh, yeah, it's one of those things, man. But then I think, you know, I'm I see this openlyague I'm a christ follower. My phase is strong, and like I look forward to that time that I get to bust his chops about some of the stuff that's happened between now and then. But a good man, big big part of and you said, you know, and you see the reactions to like a ben Wan and Malik Go and the guys that were really really tight with him. That affected a lot of people in a lot more ways than anybody elever know, like mentally really affected a lot of a lot of them. Boys. You always hear so many people and Crowbar as an example, talk about how their best matches with Eddie Guerrero. But more importantly also also always hear about how great of a person he was and just how contagious his personality was and his love for the industry. Yeah yeah, and you you you better be able, you better be evil and willing to fight him every night. And when I say fight, I mean fight. Eddie had a fuse like this big. And you'll hear some of the greats and you've heard Kurd Angled say, you've heard you know jbll'calk about it and all the guys that brock and everybody's ever been in the ring with Eddie. He had a short fuse for lack of perfection, and he held himself to such a high standard that he everything had to be perfect and if he thought something was wrong or he thought something was not going right, he was willing to fight. And so especially this time of year next week being Thanksgiving, I always am reminded of you never had a Thanksgiving unless you had a Thanksgiving at the Guero house because there was always a fight. That's that's how passionate they were about life, of about the business, is about everything they believe. But Eddie was a Eddie so unselfish man. So on listen. So we go and go, hey, you're you're you know you're work with Eddie greyl t. You go, oh ship and he comes to you and make sure that you're ready to be your best. Not this is what I do, this is what this is what it is on the top your you be at your best and I'm gonna take you there and you better be ready to be at your best, because that's what he wanted from you. He didn't want his best. He wanted your best, and so yeah, I have nothing. But you know what, tomorrow I'm gonna post it to a post a picture of me and childlow Eddie farting around. But Crowbart talked about that last week Bill, how Eddie made sure that he got his moments and even his wife Crowbar's wife in the action too, like they had moment. He made sure that, you know, he highlighted him. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he he You weren't out there to get Eddie over. Eddie was out there to get you over. Eddie understood what the business was about and what what made Eddie Eddie and what made him one of the best, you know there was. He he understood it. He understood what it took. I had a lot of I say, a lot of matches with with him, but I've had a lot of I had a lot of fun, I had a lot of arguments a lot and I have a lot of love for him, so to relateous eighteen years ago and all that stuff. But he's he's on my wall of some of my my he's on there with like I said, Crash, Allie and Jerry, Tudy and Eddie or on my right arm. Yeah, yeah, take Thank you for sharing that Bill. That was awesome. Thank you for sharing these things, man, I told you this is one of my favorite things about social media is the stuff you're putting out, and please don't ever stop it. Thank you. Let's move on to the fifteenth of November in nineteen ninety nine. I loved this so much, and it's actually I love Corporate Rock a lot. I'd love that Rock bad guy. The Rock's a great bad guy to me, Man, I know he's a good good guy, but Austin is a bad guy. I actually thought it was pretty good compared to what other people think. But The Rock is a bad guy with Vince McMahon was good stuff. So let's go ahead and go into it here. At Survivors Series, they had been building up this story where Vince McMahon, where Vinsic Man had chose Mankais as his winner and he had helped him through all these matches and Mankind was going to be his champion. He was going to be the champion, the corporate champion of them. Mankind was his guy. So not only was he helping man Kind get through in this storyline, they lasted quite a while. They did a good job of building this storyline. He was putting barry He being Vince mc mann is putting barriers in the way of The Rock and Stone Cold at particular to not be able to win and get to the final match here, the Rock final. After Stone Cold is completely screwed, it comes down to the Rock and mankind. Here a survivors series, and it was all about who was gonna be about mankind achieving and being Vince mcmam's chosen champion. Mister McMahon sweating bullets over there, shot shooter, there's a shoot shooter, shop shooter. The man centering the bound Wait a minute, boo, who were old christline federations? All that? Vince McMahon didn't screw the people tonight. The people screwed the people for each and every single piece of trailer park trash. To kiss the Rocks if you're smill, what the Rock is cooking? The Rock is a great wrestler, but dad to lose this match, I either had to be pinned and submit and the Rock didn't either. I'm not really sure I understand what the hell is going on around here? Get this, okay from behind, get this and now look at a Rock stumping away in Mankind, the corporate champion, Laura stone Cold is back roots and the McMahon's are running for their light. Hosta. He's gonna beat the rock that heus him. There's your champion. There's your corporate champion. Now Stone call Steave Austin has just playing the ring under new corporate champion. If you smell what the rock step is cooking, Oh that's such a good moment for me. I remember watching that live. It was actually truly shocking. You didn't know what was gonna happen. I had the feeling Stone Cold's gonna somehow screw up the plan, right, and this is fresh off we got to keep reenacting the Montreal screw job here, right, because let's be honest, that's what this this was Mankind is Mick Foley as a good guy. It's just such an incredible thing. This innocent, almost childish like man that's just so naive. Has anybody ever played that role as well as McK foley? Yeah, what's what was the guy's name in Goonies? Oh? Yeah, yeah, yeah, Yeah, that's it. That's That's the only comparison that I can give you. Those three guys would stand the test of time today in the business the same way everything they do when I was watching. When I was watching that, not only remember anything how great it was, years helped great those three and those five men in that grade means Shane, Vince, Mick, Steven and Day Dwayne's mooset never changed. His work never changed, just his demeanor. Austin never changed, just a demeanor. Mick never changed, just as demeanor, same moves. They didn't we I don't want to say they didn't recreate themselves, you know what I mean. They didn't have to become a different They invent to will. Yes, the corporate rock is the rock, corporate King was. You know when when you have grades like that and they can do what they still do, the people still recognize them for what they do. But now they're this guy and people walk into that hook line and sinker and there was a there was a distinct hate for Rocky when't he right when he came out and all that stuff. So that's what I that's what I enjoy about. That's what I enjoyed about it. Now so many years removed, as as as you know, we're working in w c W while they're doing that we're watching their shows and it was entertaining. It was like, look what they're doing now, how do you know? So you missed one person here, Jim Ross. Oh geez, they screwed us all. They screwed him. Selling him speaking of talking to us through that moment was always so significant, more significant than anybody in wrestling history. I think during that time, the way he communicated, there's a lot of crazy crap going on, and he was the filter of it all and arm and and the bearer of our emotions. My favorite was when he went, oh, my god, you know what he would get into it? My god. Yeah. So I always see if you can watch a match with the volume all and and be into it, do you get the same story? No matter what you watch with the buy him off. The minute you add Jim Ross to it, it accentuates everything. It's not just like there was. There's never gonna be another Boarding solely, there will never be another Jim Ross is a voice of wrestling to a lot of us, and myself included, just because of Mike Fandom. A special shout out to JR. I know he's you know, he's still like he's been talking about his health issues he's been at the doctor. He's doing well, but he's taking some time off. I just want to give a shout out always time for to get the flowers. Jr. From the minute I met him has called me his full back. He always called on me when he needed three yards. I love her to respect Jr. So much. So just to shout out, Jim for me to you keep heeling up and we look forward to seeing you back on the on the television, well said Jim Ross. Amazing and I just he is with those guys on this moment months he is just this important part. He's well, yeah, he's just as good as storyteller as anybody physically. He explained to us exactly what happened and why we should hate the rock there in Vince, and he hooked us on it. Yeah. Okay, So today, as of this recording is the sixteenth. So back in two thousand and three A Survivor series, Caine defeated Shane McMahon an ambulance match. I honestly, Bill, I don't remember seeing any other ambulance match before this one. I think this was my first experience of an ambulance match. Yeah not, I don't to your point, I don't think before it became used a lot more after the fact that hard the monster ask these guys are basically trying to destroy Tyler. Damn your arm Wait a minute, and the process I'm trying to McMahon has got canan amulance, just jumped one off and he's trying to chuck the other ca around the blocking. This is human carnage on destroying each other. Scary is the seen the opus that has been heap gone, k God give up shots right top back somehow. I don't think that's doing Shane any good. It's only it's it's like it's a a fuel of the Firefrock, the too stone, sick smile on his face, the two stone on shoot McMahon, it's over here is over kay. That's his that's his re election video. I think it should be. It's you. You said it. Up to that point, you'd never seen anything like that, and that was the best use of a what's the word prop or some like. Usually you know, they go around the vehicles and stuff like that. He literally used it as a battle ram and just move anything fancy with the vehicle. Yeah, Ma's just a freak of nature anyway. With the stuff that he wanted to do and the stuff that he did. But you're right, but then that set the tone for everybody else to holy cow, how do we how do we top that kind of thing? I was really torn between because later that night, actually it was Vince fag Manna, the Undertaker and a Buried a Life match. It was the last time until recently, we've seen the American Badass gimmick. It kind of went away after that, which a lot of people don't particularly care for the American bad Ass gimmick. But I thought it was you know, it didn't hurt the under other the Undertaker character going away for a little bit. I don't think. I don't think the w W f W needed it then, so I think when it came back and made it extra special. Uh, but I I kind of wanted to throw a curveball and show that to the world instead of that more well known, you know, buried Alive match. Yeah. Kane, to me, Kane was another one of those guys who transcended every you know, the reincarnations of him, just like Taker, just like you know, we'll talking about Austin and Rop. But I was I was a fan of the American Badass because it allowed us to keep Taker. But then when he came back as the Undertaker, and we'll show it one day, he also got to beat this not out of you on TV as the American Badass. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't care. I don't remember that too well. I'll remind you one day. I just showed the part where I where I well, I spied buster him and I get him a couple. I don't even remember that part of the matches. I remember. That's all that matters right there. Yeah, that's all that's so that's the only clips they showed. My nephews Bill hour and a half man, We've got an hour and a half lives day. We shared some cool stuff, dude, So glad to be back. A great, great way to kind of close it out with on this day. I told you I'm a big fan. I'll say that all the time. I don't care about your typos and all that stuff. There's the humor in that. Just some people never make a mistake. I thought it's amazing. It's amazing. If you ever try to put your sausages on the phone and it's ridiculous, I will say this. I got one guy pretty good on there. He was commenting on people that they shouldn't be supporting a lazy content creator, and I responded to him, do you realize the more you continue to respond to this, you're helping the Facebook algorithm algorithm show my video, so you are supporting me. Thank you? Yeah, thank you brother. Merry Christmas, Happy Thanksgiving. I hope you're doing well. Yeah, I love it. Don't stop. This is this is great. I truly mean this when I say I I apologize to bother my heart for not being more that I'm not tough enough when you know, like I said, I get sick once a year and it hit me hard. But I as always you you, you know, you lead the charge. And another shout out to Crowbar and I look forward to more guests and being on with the guests, but so good to be back and a great, great episode. And again I feel like there's this guilt thing in the back of my head and I have to say it one more time. And you and I see this a little time. All these critiques of these conversations are never about the men and women that are out there doing their thing. It's just how we see it. In kind of like a point of view, because I will say this, if I do have someone that I'm going after, I will do it right here directly and saying this is but I never wanted to come across as anything more than a critique or a little bit of behind the curtain of how I perceive it after thirty five years or something like that. And to me, that's what makes the experience special because there is a respect and shout out to you for putting everybody else over in the podcast world that's doing this and and bringing their content to light and giving us an opportunity to share that and share our opinions. So so glad to be back. Yeah, man. And and if I forget say it at the end, I wish everybody a happy Thanksgiving and blessings next week, and I look forward to what we got coming up. Yeah. Absolutely. So this is episode thirty five, I believe, So if you have not got caught up on the other thirty four episodes, you should do. So. Bill has about twenty at least before that, also from the original Building On experience, So there's a lot of content out there. Get on the YouTube, get follow follow us on all the social media. Follow Jeff Instagram and Twitter at Facebook. Follow me on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook, and go to the website building them out dot com. Check it out and get on that YouTube and subscribed. You'll always know what we're doing. Man, you're better at that than my daughter's. That's with YouTube. I can't into it any other better way by besides saying keep being you and keep being great, and we will show the very lovely great. So I do want to give a shout out to my friends at the Elms. They're a band from Indiana and on all my podcasts I use their content. I have agreement with them to use it and they've been kind to let me use it and distribute it. And so this intro song that we use outro song is from the Elms. Make sure you check out all their work. Until next time, Keep being you, keep being great. Manual Modeling Jeff Townsend Media sees you. Good night. And the question is do I stay here? Will you be back? Are you gonna come back? Will you be back? Are you coming back
