CM Punk had a lot to say!

What you're gonna do, brother, when Jeff Townsend media runs wild on you? Oh right, all right, all right, This is Jeff Townsend and joining me is Bill Legend, Bill DeMont, the Bill guy. He was late, but I gave him the pass because I was watching the ISU Indiana State University. Unfortunately they lost in the NIT championship game. But how are you doing, Bill man? Your team lost? My team lost? What a day? Yeah? Still got one team minute. I'm wearing the hat tonight. The boiler Makers are still in it, man, or do buddy? I tell you, I don't want I don't watch a lot of basketball until the sweet sixteen and then you know, the Elite eight and then down to it. So that's when I become a college basketball band. So I'm really not hip to it. I just enjoyed the play. I just enjoyed to watch, just to watch him play. Can you hear my phone going off? No, going awfully crazy? But no, Perdue is like, I don't know, half an hour from here, INDI Hada's all basketball, man? So I mean it's French Lick is awesome. I want to go to French Lick, Indiana. I just want to go where Larry Bird grew up. Yeah, that's who I s you play. That's where he went to school. Yeah. Oh so they just they didn't make it into tournament. They were kind of snubbed, man, But it is what it is. Hard thing's going for you this week with foundation and everything. Man, we are so you can see the background of the mansion in the office here. I had two presentations today, this being Thursday, It's been a very busy week for the foundation, prom and graduation times. Usually when people try to request us from more speaking. Spoke to a couple of thousand students today. Just just amazing, man, a couple thousand. Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah, the conversations that have come out a bit, and and just being able to spend time with with those students. But I gotta be honest, it where's me out? So when when I do one presentation and it wears me up mentally and emotionally, you know, more than physically. But doing two in one day like that, it's a little bit taxing. So I'm a little tired. I'm a little kind of like drained. But what an awesome what an awesome day, and and things just keep going in the in the right direction for the foundation. So UH, as always, thank you for asking and giving me a couple minutes to just catch every up on what we're doing. Uh, it's a it's a it's a journey man. We appreciate everybody out there joining us live across eight different platforms. It's awesome to build amon experience live. Yeah, we just released an episode about wrestle Mania, so the live experience is about a week ahead of the release day on YouTube and then audio form. So with that being said, with WrestleMania being this weekend, we'll obviously talk about the results of that next week, but we didn't want to get into too much information this week about that because it would be posts right, right, But there was another crazy event to happen this week. Bill and I think this will be probably the last time we really talk about CM punk and aw I think. I don't know if you got to watch the interview that he was on this week. I did watch it, and then I caught the how can I say the variations that people posted of it, you know, because you know certain people are places only post so much of it, But I got to listen to it, I got to watch it. Clearly this is not a matter that's been swept under the rug. I mean, clearly, we thought we were done with this conversation between DM Punk and AEW, but apparently it's opened some old wounds or open the door for people to start discussing what truly happened at Wimbley and afterwards and so forth. But I found it interesting. I did listen to Shavani's talking about it. Yeah, and you know, just to hear totally cut a couple times, I'll give a rap about it and all these things, and and a lot of people posting about, geeze, can't we just get past this? So I think we. I think this is the beginning of the end, though I really do the beginning of the end of the convers was that. Yeah, I think this, this cmlg AW conversation will kind of fad off now, and I think that'll be it. And I don't want this to sound like sarcastic, but it's about time that everybody let the sleeping dogs lie and just everybody coming together with like, let's just move on from this. I don't know if it was it was therapeutic for Punk to let it out and people to hear it, but to your point. I hope this is the end of it. Let's move on. I know a lot of people, a lot of different AW stars had things to say about it and things like that, but let's move on. If everybody's happy, let's let's move on. Pumps where he wants to be and needs to be. Aw's where they want to be and need to be. And like you said, the beginning of the end of the conversation, that doesn't have to come up anymore certainly feels like it. So what we're going to do throughout this episode because this is obviously their overwhelming topic that the viewers slash listeners of the Building on Experience wanted to talk about this week, which whenever we've talked about steampunk before, it's it's always been the best viewed or listen to downloaded episode. And I'm sure it's that way with a lot of people's content. Yeah, yeah, of course I'm a big sampunk fan, so I'm more than willing to. But what's go ahead, I have the whole interview here, we'll watch portions of it and talk through it. Great, let's see here, I gotta kind of I got it. I don't have it broke down in segments, so I'm got to literally find it here. Most interesting to start with is the return, if we can. So ww's back in Chicago Survivor Series November twenty twenty three. You return, When does that ball start to roll? Because I think a lot of people are hoping, all right, you're free and clear. Could it happen? They're looking for any sign. Someone says something in commentary, Oh my god, he's foreshadowing. When does that ball actually start to roll? Towards the return on that Saturday night slight percentages, I think, over the years start that ball rolling, but to really get in out, like the action of it started the week of I think Thanksgiving. Maybe i'd have to look at a calendar to figure out dates exactly. I remember like times and places of where I won, where I was when I would get phone calls and such, and I had a CFFC show coming up, I think, so I gotta I got a call from from Nick con and he was just like, hey, we want to talk to you, and I was like cool. On my way to the gym and I got this coming up CFFC. I'll be back there. You're cool, you want to you want to talk Monday. Great, so it was a week of Thanksgiving Monday, I spoke to him. To be clear for those I may not know, Survivor series was the Saturday after Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving is a Thursday. Yes, so Mon Monday day before I came back. That's five days away from Survivor series. You get the call. What was that call? Like, I think the call. I'm always so nervous about pulling the curtain back on stuff, but I think the call was more of a hey, we want to talk to you about coming back. You know, we'd love you for World Rumble, you know, and because they assumed that I probably had some sort of noncompete or something like that, and we're kind of floored when I was like, no, man, ready to go, let's do it. We ever have a non KP, even if it was for a month now zero, you could have signed the next day. Yeah, okay, Yeah, And Nick said, I really wish I knew that. Sorry, man, you know, I didn't. I didn't make the I didn't I didn't call her tell anybody. I just kind of laid low for a minute. There's the first person there. So we get to find out more information. That's been a lot of discussion on when did this initiate? This conversation between c and Punk it would be return This interview revealed that it all came together last second and Nick Con was the guy that started got got the ball rolling on it. Yeah, I find I find that interesting to know is Nick Con because if you know, for for for everyone who follows the industry and everything, you know, usually that call and I would imagine it probably would have came from Triple Ah, you know, from Paul or from someone you know, even Bruce Pritchett or someone along them, maybe a Michael Ayes or someone closer connected to the creative and the I guess the uh, the actual business part of the wrestling part of it. But so that was interesting that Nick Con made the call, which was which I think it's it's pretty cool. I think I'm kind of sorry to interrupt you. We kind of learned over the last couple of weeks, the last couple of months that Nick CON's more involved maybe than we thought. Yeah, yeah, and that's I'm not sure if that's by designer, by necessity, right, and I think everybody it's going on, maybe it was necessity for him to be more involved in the in the process. So however, it came about good that it was Nick con Good, that he's got his fingers on the pulse of the the major stars in the industry. But I found it really interesting that there there was no compete clause. And I think that's what what non compete? Yeah, no, non compete, that's what Punk was saying, like, well, I didn't tell anybody because I think we we all you and I included right in the in this IWC community. We hear it so much and I've been a part of it. Everybody has a non compete clause, so I think it was just an assumption made by everybody. Well maybe there's no time to do it and be back behind the scenes. Wars of character and contract infringement and people doing things illegally has always been, you know, brought up, so I think everybody stayed awakement. So I think it was really interesting to find out, wit mate, you have no noncompete And that's funny to hear, you know, Punk saying no, I'm ready to go now, So pretty cool, pretty cool news to find out, you know, even after the fact, I don't know, you know, when those non compete clauses are only valid for certain reasons, and you know, I don't I don't know a termination like that would avoid it. You know, it's all on the verbiage of the non compete, but there are different circumstances that where that's not exactly valid. And the truth of it is, if you choose to fight it, no one can keep you from making a living. And I think maybe Regal was one of those guys back in the day with w CW. I think about the non competes because if if you want to fight in a quarter ofll, if you want to pay the money and go through the hullabaloo of it and everything, no one can stop you from making a living. So the non compete is more of a territorial thing, I think, and kind of like, okay, here's the cooling off period, kind of you know, ninety days to cool off from however you got, let go released all those kind of things, and and let everybody you know, try to move on from there. But those ninety days, to your point, are kind of I think it's more smoking mirrors than anything. There are some things that came out of this you mentioned Triple H. He actually did end up having a conversation with Triple H. After speaking with Nick Con he goes, and we obviously can't listen to the whole thing, right, But after he spoke with Nick Con it went on to then he, I guess immediately requested basically I want to I don't know about immediately, but in the same conversation said he wanted to speak with Triple H. Yeah, and they had a FaceTime around the holiday apparently, Yeah, seam Pope was like, I don't want to take you up your tier in the holidays, and Triple H is like, I don't know. Sampok thought a call, right, but Triple H thought it was important. They facetimed, yeah, And I guess they buried the old hatchet. I guess you could say. And they Sampunk even said they laughed about some of the silly things that they were and they had problems with each other out before. You know, Yeah, I can believe that, and I think hat's off and it can't. We go back to when we talk about Punk a lot. The one thing that you can say is he's a smart He's a smart businessman. And whether it was Nick kN or whether it was Tony Kahan or anybody else, you want to talk to the people that and And I don't know Nick Con. I've never dealt with him, so I'm not saying anything out of school, but I want to deal with the person who knows me best. Nick Con knows him as a as a character personality, He's gonna be good for business, but Hunter knows him best. I don't know little history, but it's possible that he's had other interactions with Nick Conn in the industry. I mean, oh, okay, so Nick Con is an agent, right too. I mean that's right. Nick Con becomes gets into the entertainment, sports, whatever you want to call industry based off of agency work for athletes four entertainers. So I'm not sure that would be their first you know, I don't know that for a fact. Yeah, probably not my first interaction. But i'd like to hear it from you know, to Pun's point, I'd like to hear from Hunter that black of a better of saying it. I got your blessing to come back, and we're gonna be cope, pesthetic, and we're gonna be able to uh oh coexist in this in this uh newfound resurgence of his career. WWE. So I thought it was a good move and and I think it was interesting that Hunter and but to me, that's what that's what Paul does. That's what Hunter does. If you're gonna have a phone call, let's at least do it via FaceTime, zoom something where we can look at each other and understand, because you know, we could sit here with no picture on this show and you don't know what I'm doing, or if I'm rolling my eyes while we're talking, or my body language and and stuff like that. So that's the next best thing to being in person. So thanks Liam for the gift. On TikTok uh, we're live across eight different places and it's so funny because, yeah, hundreds of people watching this nice and just I don't know, two people maybe on TikTok. So the TikTok algorithm absolutely hates this streaming software. I beg a bunch of pro wrestling fan followers there because the content I post. But the TikTok algorithm absolutely hates this. It's more video. It just favors on. Like if we're not streaming directly through TikTok, right, we're using a sore that's going out across the internet. On eight different platforms. It freaking TikTok blocks it, man, it hates it. So it's funny that when I see somebody pop in there and do that. So, yeah, thank you Liam. Everybody else got Yeah, there's a bunch of comments, Chad Michael's on here on Facebook. Yeah, we got people everywhere, but yeah, to talk's always the least amount correct. Well, thank you to the two people on TikTok. Keep that going. We okay, So just getting back to the topic here, I guess you could say proved wrong. A lot of the wrestling, like Dave Miltz are reported there and cmpunk had reached out, WW wasn't interested. We heard a lot of things going around around this time a Survivor series, and apparently most of it wasn't true. Right, So it's for weeks leading up Cempunk's camp had reached out, WW wasn't interested. You go to find out later in this and like I said, I know we've both been busy. I haven't got to put this together as well as I usually do other episodes. But later on in one of the episodes, he actually says that he was at home watching a lot of these cues and hence being dropped on raw about him and he had no prior conversation with it to be about returning. So he was seeing it in real time as we were that them using his finishing move, them saying things that he would say on Michael Cole or whoever's saying things. He did not know what. He was like, what's going on? People were calling him up saying, hey, what's up with this? He was like, I honestly don't know. And I thought that was interesting. Yeah, And it goes back to that, you know, we talk about kind of like that misleading information that's out there through the Internet and certain people you know, talking about how they know or they're in the know, or they heard or someone told them, and a lot of that is is like we and I and you and I have talked about it. It's put out there to mislead people. Yeah, so it's it was really really kind of interesting to hear how he's watching it real tied with everybody else going, h I don't know, no one, yeah, no one's yeah. And like I said, of this double if I double over into some things that we're going to show, I apologize. But nobody really knew about this, Uh. He didn't even tell his fatomus and his wife knew about it. Lawyer knew about it, Steve, if he knew, I assume as his lawyer, I believe, uh and do W just a few people Nick con triple h, you know, but not really people knew, but he just showed up and that was literally when people found out. So you think that's the way to go, because they also had a little bit of a conflict on some of the people that were in the match their real time. You do think it's the way to go. I do, because it would get out these days, right, and for whatever reason, someone couldn't contain the fact that they knew something and could tell the people before it happened. That's just human nature, and especially in this industry, someone has to be the one to be more important than anybody else, to know what nobody else knows and to share it before it happens. I like when no one's aware of it. I like the days of guys hiding in a bus or a hotel for six hours and walking in two minutes before the music hits or anything like that. So I really liked it and I loved the and we talked about this at length. I love the facial expression, is the body language. Everybody that was watching it happen just like we were going, what in the hell is going on here? And it was a great, great reaction. So I do I like that where you know, let's keep things. We don't have to know everything. I agree, interesting that we found out some of that information though we'd been talking about it, I guess just guessing about it. So, like I said, I think this conversation closes up a lot of things aw included the talk of the return. And then as we continue out this episode, I think it answers some questions that a lot of people had. Good interview. Let's go ahead, jet back into it here. Let me get back to the next spot that I had marked here, and I see all these other wrestlers getting on the plane and stuff like that, and then I you know, there's there's a whole gap. There's a generation of people that I never met that started pretty much right after I left twenty fourteen. Twenty fifteen, nice lady by the name of Live Morgan helped me find my earbuds and it fell out of my pocket while I was like, while I was sleeping on the flight. She was a sweetheart. She like hole playing empties and she's like on her hands and knees, like looking around, get small hands. She's like you dig it under the seats and you know, and looking for stuff. And then my friend Bailey messaged me and she's like, oh, my friend Lived was on the flight with you. She says you were so nice to her. I was like, oh yeah. She's like, yeah, we have a show in Chicago. You should come visits. Throwing Bailey under the bus now, yeah, it's all her fault. And I laughed because like I landed, got on the train, went home, and I was, you know, I'm no wife, no dog, I don't have anything to do, and I'm just like, yeah, I'm gonna go visit. I'm going to go visit my friend Bailey and I went. And that was your first time back since twenty fourteen, backstage at a WW event. Yeah, and did it feel good? Did you feel on edge? Because I thought when I when I asked you at the top here like when did the ball start rolling? I thought maybe it started them? But you were still under contract right with aw I went to visit people. There was no ulterior motives. I'm the old timer in the business and there's a show in town. I wasn't trying to get a job or anything. I literally went and like the few people that I saw before I got thrown out, Like it was all I saw, Miss saw Bobby Lashley, Baron Corbin, like everybody is just so nice and kind. You know that That's the only reason I went, maybe for free catering. Yeah were you Were you mad that they asked you to leave or did you understand? I expected it? You know, I expected that to go. I wasn't sure events was there. He was. I think he was doing stuff remote via zoom, you know, because this is in between like Vincent's gone, now we're back, and I didn't know the politics of things. I literally just want to go say hi to Bailey a few other people. Did anyone from AW get mad that you were there? Oh? Yeah, what happened? Yeah, I don't want to talk about that. I think the word betrayed was used, and I was just like, all right, man, Like, as a company, you're allowing guys to go on their television show to do things. I went backstage to say hi to friends. It's two completely different things. Like, you know, if you're going to be mad about it, Okay, m hm. So back to November. Talks about that famous visit that we heard last summer of spring while he was on his hiatus from and injury recovery, which we'll get into that later from a w and he went back to just a visit and he's called he's called a that he was a trader, betrayed them trade the company. Your thoughts on this incident. You build relationships, Bill and any profession working with people for so long, and this is a weird industry where it's just like frowned upon. Well, it's I'll say, you know, here's here's an analogy that hopefully Hulk Hogan would never do that. Hul Hogan. The care people know who he is. It'd be all over the place. And if Hulk, who's gonna do it? Hulk would make it known. You know what I mean, and follow me here and see if you you know, if you if you can pick up what I'm saying Hogan doing it would be for a reason. And I'm not saying he did. I'm just using him as the example. Hogan would make sure that everybody knew for a reason before he jumped to w C w he visited, you know what I mean, that's why he would do that, And it doesn't sound like that's what Phil was doing, what Punk was doing. He came out and said, listen, I was invited there. I don't look at it as betraying any women because I'm not going to work. I'm not making it known. I'm not trying to schmooze anybody. I'm not trying to get my foot back in the door. I work for this other company, but these these are my guys, these are my girls. And yet I've been a part of it where you go and show up at something like let's watch now. If he would have shown up on if they would have showed him sitting in the audience watching the show, maybe you have a conversation that. Maybe then you go listen, what are you doing to us here? What are you doing to me? I thought we had an understanding, but he didn't do anything. And I also find it interesting that the term thrown out is still used when he wasn't from and from what I understand, from from Punks's thoughts and from all of this, he wasn't thrown I just asked to leave. I've been there when people have been thrown out. I've been actual difference, right, It's a huge difference of being thrown out and just being hey, thanks for stopping by, but maybe it's time for you to go, kind of thing. I'm I'm, I'm almost one hundred percent positive without knowing he wasn't escorted out of the building by two people and walked up the ramp and put into his car and s don't ever show your face here again. I don't think he was thrown out, And I think that's why they have the relationship they have now, because he was treated respectfully when he was there, and he was asked respectfully to go, and he respectfully left, which I wish everybody. I wish everybody could do those things. But I don't think he betrayed anybody. But to his point, you let everybody else work for other companies and do all these things, and they show up wherever they want, with who they want, why they want, when they want, basically wrestle in Japan half the time. Hell yeah, yeah, And they missed their they missed the AEW shot because they were injured working for someone else, or you know, all these things. So I think betrayed was a pretty heavy word. I think for anybody who follows c him punk or has got to know him over the years, he really doesn't pull punches. He really doesn't play word games and stuff, you know what I mean. Uh, maybe a little bit of semantics here and there, but he's not a guy to I don't know, just put people in the oppositions just to do right. So I I I'd go with what he said. I I trust what he said. There was no ill intent, there was no nothing. What my girl said, hey you're a town stop by, I got nothing else going on, and stopped by and he got to talk. And that's the thing. But you remember on all the reports on the internet, behind the scenes he got thrown out and all these dings and none of that stuff, except he was behind you know, there was a liability for Dutov. That's why he was. Yeah. I mean, it wasn't right. Nobody wanted him there necessarily. It was just we don't know what's going on at that point. He was still in her contract. So but to be fair, I believe it was the week before that he was at TNA. He was first of all, he was, it was in his it was in Chicago, right, So It's not like he went flying or driving some to another city to get a visit. But I know that he did visit TNA recently before that TA, which sparked some you know, with some conversation there. I think that this is kind of it. Will see this ongoing themes throughout this conversation. It just shows the lack of communication and a disconnect with CMPUNK and AW, and I think as we go through this, you'll continue to see that. That's just another example of it. But yeah, so that was a information that we of course didn't quite know. And let me see here trying to take it. Where did I just jump out from here? He also said from that that the other side of that too, before you the other side of it too, is I find it interesting that let's say people lower on the card in AW have free will to do what they want when they want. But then here's your your top draw that you should trust and know he's not doing anything to hurt your brand or his brand, and that's that's the term you'd like to use, betrayed and every So I find that all very very interesting. Yeah, it kind of contradicts what we'll get into here a little bit. But I was going to finish up this section of it with He talked about his interaction with Vince wick Mann. It was very limited. He went to the corporate office, he was working out there. I guess Vince wick Mann came in to work out. They exchanged just very brief conversation, Hey, let's catch up later, welcome back home. And they never did talk again, but for various reasons. One because they just what's happened with Vince wick Mann, but two because I don't think that was the topest C in Punk's priority list. He's been pretty public about criticizing do B in particular Vince wick Mann. So when he was asked the million dollar question about the Vince allegations, of course he didn't. It was actually really really he did a really good job answering it. He didn't hold back anything, but he didn't. He actually compared it to the christ Bin Waugh thing in some regards to the impact it had on him. Yeah, or like how he would probably not know anything was going on. It's just not in his wheelhouse or not what he's involved in. He obviously didn't have a really close relationship with the VINCC man, like a lot of people do. We hear a lot of people say father figure and things like that, even seem Punk alluded to that. But for him personally now, he's they never had that relationship. So he addressed that before moving on to the next topic. But yeah, apparently him just just for those people saying that, you know how involved Vince McMahon was getting back into scene during this time, real involved, well in this particular thing he wasn't involved in. He wasn't to see him Punk back. Yeah, he didn't reach out to him, you know, right away, right, they just kind of ran into each other. So financially speaking, Yeah, and I think he goes to having your finger in the pulse of what's going on and now knowing that Nick conn was a big part in that. But I think for what Punk knew at the time it was on, there was the one he needed to speak to and deal with and kind of iron things out with, not Vince. Yeah, we'll spend too much time on that. Let's pull it back up and let's go to the big other thing that everybody was talking about, the wrestle Mania plans, the Royal Rumble plans. How all this came into play. There's a lot of speculation about that. Let me cue it up here and find it real quick. You could say whatever you want, if only because I have so much respect for the business. So I will ask you the question. You could tell me to fuck off? Okay, what was the plan for you for WrestleMania. That's what everyone that's like the sixty four million dollar question at this point because they want to try to put the We want to try to put them together, like was this the original plan? Did it go here? Did it go then there? Because of the injury, So could you tell us as of Royal Rumble, what was the plan for you for April sixth and seventh? It changed a lot, you know, because I I came back in and I told Triple H. I was like, look, man, I'm not here to steal anybody's spotlight, take anybody's main event. Like I get it. I was pissed ten years ago when I had to sit through Rock Sena two years in a row, you know. And now but everything's different. Mani's two nights now, so more people get that opportunity. And for me it was always just about the booker my head. You cannot become Maine of that talent unless you work with other main of that talent. You cannot become main of that talent unless you work in the main event spots that are normally afforded only for the main of that talent, right, And that's just what I craved, was more knowledge, more experience. I want to I want to be that guy. I want to see if I can be that guy, because I know I can. I know there's people that don't think I can. So that's more motivation to show them that, yes, I am that guy. The plan I think was going to be me and Seth for his belt. Yeah, would it have been made event of Night one? I believe so, Yeah, which would it again? I'm not I came in and I said, I'm not asking questions. You know, you saw as in your video blog, the one leading up to Roll Rumble that they put together where you're on the treadmill and you're like, before I used to stress about X, Y and Z, you're just kind of letting what am I doing? A TV? Right? Where are we going with this? The booker and I had I'm looking six months, eight months, twelve months into the future. What are we doing? You know? And now after doing all that and all the experiences I've had. I'm just kind of just like, all right, did you like that? Though? If that was it? Would you have been happy with that? Me and Seth Yeah, eye opening, man. So a lot of people said they had to throw a curveball, they had to do this, this or that. Turns out everything played out and we'll get into his injury more. But he just finished the match hurt. Yeah, and you know me, I think the smartest thing that he's done recently is is have that conversation. By the way, I thought this was a great interview with period. Yeah. Yeah, with Ariel Uh, I thought Lonnie. Yeah, just for context people, he does have he's been in the MMA reporting for I don't know a couple of decades now. Yeah, it does have a little bit of a relationship with CMPUG From that, cm punk actually does not do hardly any press media stuff. So one, that shows you the trust that CMPOK has in them. Two that shows you that the trust do to B has in Ariel because exactly he wouldn't be He's there to promote WrestleMania, right, get people talking about dow for WrestleMania. I like how they did it at the beginning of the week to kind of get that out of the way, yep, before we get into the weekend. Not doing it on a Friday right before, that's all everybody to be talking about. But there's a reason they did that, and there's a reason they had this relationship with him. He used to work with aw pretty closely, but they've since they've since basically boycotted his existence because he was critical about a few things and he asked Tony a few tough questions and he certainly did Cmpunk here too. W Wwe had to know these questions are going to be asked, right and they you know. But the the trust in the person asking the questions and the person who's answering the questions. Here's the this is your interview. Answer it. But be mindful of how you ptray yourself and the company help tell your truth. Just be mindful and not one time in this interview do I feel like Punk buried anyone, ae W, anybody. He just told the story that was being asked. But really really interesting to hear his demeanor now openly admitting which most of us in the business would never openly admit. We're always thinking ahead and we're always trying to be the booker, and we're and and the you know, the you know, the internet wrestling community there, we're all bookers, right, everybody knows what's right and wrong and who should be doing what. But Punk's letting you in saying, I'm that guy. I was that guy for so many years. I wasn't questioning it. I was questioning the knowledge, And why can't I be that guy just because that person doesn't think so all the I mean, we can talk about this forever. But the fact that he opens up and goes, yeah, and now coming back after everything I've been through, especially in the past couple of years recently, I'm just gonna kind of go with what they give me. Now, you know, he's still gonna ask questions because it's a professional athlete basketball. Somebody's gonna question their their spot, their reasoning for doing things, or why am I not pitching on this night? Or why am I not starting here? Or you know, all these things. But now he's saying he's learned throughout the years the things some of the things that were important are and that is important, and let's let's do it the way you want to do it. And he'll still remain true to who he is as a person, and the character and and the company will remain true to who they are. So I thought that so far and this is this interview was outstanding. So I'm I'm really caught up in it and it and I'm gonna say openly it. I never had ill will or a bad thought about Punk. I always thought, and I think I've said it here on our show, if you kids of thought he would the business for himself. But listening to this, you can see how you can take it that way. But now understanding it, I'd be the first one to say, like, thanks for enlightening me, dude, Thanks for you know, thanks for letting me in in the thought process, because now I have a better understanding of everything that's coming that's coming up and the things that have happened. You know. This is the next area we get into is kind of talking about that and it shines some more light on some of those misconceptions, or I guess it's always how you interpret it, right, I mean, right right. But the next area we'll get into here is the aw conversation. This is a lengthy one, so we'll stop it here and there. But we often wondered what happened with the Jack Perry incident. We later find out, and we'll cover it a little, we'll play it, but the original issue he had the year before is all in da He can't talk about it right, this, this is, this is not and IM sure they smartened deb after the first time. Right, we're not signing any damn indie from a legal standpoint. But yes, so let me pull back up here. We'll get into that. He talks about the transportation issues that he had, and he wasn't sour and bitter about it necessarily. He got it right across the town. He got that experience. You got to see the fans. But he couldn't help but think about how unprofessional it was for a w to do that right and kind of leave him hanging there to take Finn for himself, which he didn't have a problem with doing, but just the the situation itself. Let me get back in. You're kind of goes back to and I'll play get it playing here the poke and the bear theme. Yeah, you know, he can't help, but wonder why they did these things, when they did these things, and how the timing of it all played out. We'll get into some of the aw talk here. We'll stop every few minutes. It's this is quite a lengthy section. But where are you backstage? Jack Perry's on on screen and he says, real glass, Why don't you cry about it? Where are you when this is said? I was, I was in my locker room. Did you feel like that was directed at you? Yes? Why? Okay? Obviously was directed at me? Well because okay, So for those that made not know, apparently he had a trip planned, he wanted to use glass. You were consulted, you said, why would you use glass? It correct me, you lived it. So I'm trying to bring people up to Sam. This is one of those things where it's just like there's all these rumors about NDA's. Yes, there's a big difference between not being allowed to talk about some shit or just not wanting to talk about some shit. I don't necessarily want to litigate this again. You say, again, you've never talked about a publicly? No, I guess I can't happen. But that's the thing. So Tony's big idea was a separate show. We're going to separate everybody. And I said that will never work. Just let me go, just get me out of here. Just pay me my money. Like I'm already been off TV. I heard this arm. Just just get me out of here, you know, No, can't let you go? Why just let me go? Who cares? I'm it's best. I mean, these guys don't want me here. This, this isn't this isn't a real business. This isn't a business predicated on making money, drawing money, selling tickets, you know, doing business. It's it's it's not what it was sold to me as So let me go. Oh, I can't let you go. I'm going to do this new show and you're gonna you know, you're gonna have and blah blah blah. And then the second day we have this show, I'm sitting in catering mine in my own business and Tony Shilani comes and gets me and he's like, hey, can I really need your help? And I was like, what, Jack is you know, cussing me out? And he's cussed out Mike Hensurrey and he cussed out Darryl from production and he's cussing out the doctor right now. Why what? And I was immediately like, dude, isn't supposed to be here? You know? I was told people are getting separated, so there's not problems and you don't want me involved in this because just like everything else I've explained before, like y'all need to handle this because if you don't, I'm going to handle it and you're not gonna like to handle it. Thanks for letting know. Bill, we'll call up here for a second. We'll talk about this. That is said several times throughout this interview. Yeah, that if they don't handle it, he will, and they're not gonna like Kelly handles it. Well. I think it's I think it's a fair statement to let people know if you're asking me to handle it, then you may not like the way. And I'll put I'll use myself as the example. I was in charge of abc dn E, so if someone came to me and said, can you handle this, then you should understand how it's gonna be handled and then there shouldn't be any repercussions or after thought. And I feel like Pom's telling them you don't want me to handle it because the way I'm gonna handle it and the way you handle things are two different, few different ways of doing things, and clearly from what Unk is saying, it's not the business that he thought he was coming back into. This is a different run company and not the business like you said, selling tickets, splitting acids and seats and and drawing money in all these things. So he already knows that he doesn't want to get involved in any more than he has to. This validates some of the thought process out there, being that the roster split per se and it was very limited split what obviously strategically done. This television show Collision was created for seeing Punk, right. It was created for CM punk to be in part managed by CM punk or have a big part in it. It was CM Punk's show. This validates all that which I think we knew. So that also validates Warner Brothers discoveries relationship with CM Punk Philip Brooks. They're on board with launching another show, and I assume with the understanding that this would he play out as far as CM punk being a major player in it all the way around. Right, But it sounds like a lot of people didn't give the full disclosure of what was going on, including people didn't give it the Punk. So it seems like there's a lot of misleading conversations that went on. But the one thing you can't question is if the man's telling you you don't want me to handle it, because it's gonna be because there's already turmoil, right, the reason why there's already a separate show, and there's gonna be certain talents that will never see each other and work together and all these things. And now he's telling them, you don't want me to do this, right. And it's the part where he's talking with Shavani's as we're in the interview, and so I feel like you're telling people lead me out of it. I don't want to get involved. Is if I get involved, it's going to be a different thing, right, you know, let's check beck in prophetic words. So he's bagging me, now, please, he drags me out of catering. I go up. Hook and Jack are doing an angle. I don't know anything about Jack going on vacation. Alls I know is there's a litany of people that don't want They work one day a week and they don't want to so they want to show up and wrestle and then film vignettes and then sit at home for four weeks. Great, not my company. Do what you want, but not on my show. That was my attitude. So I said, Tony, do you really want me doing this? Yeah? And I walked up the Jack and he's sitting in a car. What he wanted to do is a rental car. What he wanted to do was smash the window of a rental car with a pipe. And I was just like, it's a rental car. And I very politely, because I like Jack. I was just like, Doc's told you no, Daryl's told you no, Mike's told you no, Shavan He's told you now, and now I have to tell you no. And apparently you've cussed them all out. So I'm telling you no, we don't do that here. If you want to do this and go to Wednesday and do it right, And he had no problem. He said okay. He said, well, I just thought it was a really cool idea and I said it might be, but is a rental car? Boys ruining for the boys. You're going to smash the window of a rental car and you're going to return it with no fucking window. And now whatever national budget hurts, whatever, is going to be like, don't don't rent cars to pro wrestlers anymore. This is the thing that's happened, right, you know. So I wasn't trying to throw my weight around. I wasn't like, this is my show when you get our got out of here. I was just like this fucking dumb man. And he wanted to do it because so he didn't have to fly back to Canada. And I, you know, sorry, man, we're privileged to be in this business. We're privileged to do this for a living. Like, I get it. I didn't want to go to Canada either. All the flights were delayed, canceled, everybody's travel sucked. But to come to this new show when everyone's supposed to be separated, to get rid of all the drama, and then that, you know, swearing at the doctor because the doctor's like real glass you you know, like shit's going to go in your eye. Like and I get it. I used to be that kid that was like, young man, I want to do this, you know, but there's a safe way to do it. And I politely explained that to him and then raise my voice. I didn't cuss at him. I was just like, I very much just said, we don't do that here. This is Saturday. It's a different show. You want to do stuff like this and do it on Wednesday. What was it? I didn't think there was gonna be a problem. He obviously took something very business minded, very personally, and that's fine because I've done that before too, but it's very much who he's friends with, and you know, shit never got squashed. Nobody's in charge, and it turned into what it turned into. So he says that clearly a shot at you, as you said, matches over. He goes to the back of what happens. I went, I went to Tony and I was just like phis, Tony by the way, and I was like, please handle that, like please, And he was like, what do you want me to do? And I was like, I'm not telling you what didn't to just be the boss please, Like I'm tired of this shit, you know, like I told you it was a mistake, and I told you separate shows wasn't going to work. And now we're all here and you know, like, please handle it because if you don't, you're not going to like the way I handle it. We'll jump back in here in a second, but calm and seem going on here, Yeah, leave me out of it, and somebody be the boss. And that's we've talked about it, and a lot of people and your point of last our last episode, a lot of people who do what we do, podcasters and interviewers are now saying the same thing, like for a long time it was the boys club Tony, Tony wanted to be or was perceived as one of the boys. The inmates are running the asylum. There was no leadership, there was no chain of command, was any pick and choose and do what you want, just like Bunk said, and he came into that misguided philosophy of that's not really how the business works if you want to be successful. But that's the theme now is like be the boss, and you know, and fast forward to today's news or this week's news and everything now that he's being the boss, he's getting scrutinized for that. But that's a different conversation. But you know, it comes back to like Punch that telling us anything we didn't know. He's just enlightening us to how this all went down, and the fact that it went down this way, to me goes to where there has to be more of a conversation of who the hell is the boss here? Who other than having the being the guy who is the only creative and the only decision maker, and sits in the thing. He's gotta be on camera and all these things and tweets and all these things. Who truly is the boss who's gonna run this thing? And this is why you have so many people who try hard and don't get the backing. And then you have talent that can do what they want. And then you have a guy like see him punk, who's seasoned, been around the block a few times, has a different mindset than a lot of people in this business. And he's telling you please don't he from the way he's says, I was like, I'm letting you know that if you ask me to handle so you put me in this, which is something you told me I wouldn't have to do because we're gonna be split to begin with. It's not gonna go down the way you want. And this is where they're at again a backstory, and I can't speak to the situation exactly, but Jack Perry is brought in and friends with the elite young bucks. But let me ask you this, I don't know Jack Perry, never met him, don't know anything about him other than what I've seen on TV. And then what I've heard, but I will say this as a as a veteran of this business. Who the hell is Jack Perry to be calling shots other than if he thinks that he's friends with the two vps EVPs, that he's got that kind of stroke. And if he does, who's in charge of making sure that relationship is understood? And that's where that's where I think Punk's coming from with this whole thing. And the crazy part about this to me is Tony Kahan. I don't know if he's ever missed a TV event, So Tony Kahan is either there or gonna be there. I'm assuming I never heard of Tony con not being there for a single show, right. He travels all around the world for the soccer in that he's a workhorse as far as the hours he puts in. So why Tony Kn's not involved in this? Obviously? I know you have to have managers for a reason, but Tony Kahn hasn't really set up a good structure, so he's put it in a position where he's got to be the one that manages this stuff. What's Jet Beck in? Though? What happened Jack came back from his match, I was the next match I'm sitting there, I got I got people with me. I'm not going to say who they are, you know, because I got a lot of friends who work there, and I wish them all well and I don't want them to be punished because they're friends with me, you know. And I walk up to them and I'm just like, Jack, why do you insist on doing this dumb internet shit like on TV? You know? And he's just like, well, if you've got a problem about it, do something about it. And I was just like, man, come on, man, you know I would kill you, Like what are we doing? You know? And it just, you know, it says sometimes you just can't let you get close, you know. I thought I was doing a responsible thing, you know. I didn't punch anybody. I just choked somebody a little bit. Some Ojoe was there told me to stop, and then I quit. I turned to Tony and I said, this place is a fucking joke, man, You're a clown. I quit. I went to my room, and then Joe and Jerry Lynn came and got me, and they're like, let's just go out there and kill it. Let's just and I was just too fired up. And I'm fired up now, and I'm probably gonna regret, you know, talking about all this shit, But that's that's what happened. Okay. So but so for those that don't know, you actually did go out and wrestle. Yes, do you like is that all just a blur for you? That match? Do you even remember? Because noone no, that match is I was just like, this is the last time I'm ever going to wrestle some Ojoe, you know what I mean? Yeah, and this is my last match in this company. You knew that. Yeah, I quit? I said, I quit. So why did you even go out for Joe? For Joe, for Paul Turner, the referee, for Jerry Lynn, the agent on the match, because I, you know, respect him, and I thought it was the professional thing to do. All the sands. You know a lot of fans there, Yeah, you know, probably a lot of them to see me, you know, so just go out there and give them a show. One hundred thousand fans, right, I don't know. You have to check the turnstyle count and so you go to the back. What happens then, like your match is over? Great match? What happens? They told me Jack was told to leave, And I was like do I got to leave. I was like, I want to watch the show, and they're like, no, it's fine, And then I don't know. A couple of matches later, a very nice man by the name of Sam, he was in charge of security. He was like, what are your plans for the rest of the night, And I was like, I was just going to shower and just hang out watch the show, you know, because I, you know, the whole solo locker room things fucking lame. I had Joe, I had a house of black I had all these guys with me, and I was just like, I just want to watch the match, you know, And he just kind of looked at me, and I went, is it easier for you and your job if I leave? And he's just like, yeah, it might it might be. He's like, but nobody's telling you. You got to go, like I, you know, And I was just like, well, Sam, I'm a man, man a man, I'm not trying to fuck up your day. You got a job to do. So if it's easier for you if I split, I'll split. And then I went and got nandos for a bunch of the boys and went to my hotel room and you know when the show was over, they came by and we eat chicken. Tremendous spot. By the way, Nando's is great, spicy the race. Oh yeah, Perry, Perry buddy, that's right. Did you have to have a conversation because what was told to us was you were fired with cause, so you said quit. The devil's in the details there. But did you have a conversation with Tony to say, Okay, this is it, We're done. There's not going to be You have not talked to him really. The last time you talked to him was backstage at Wimbley. Yeah. Wow. He went on air several days later and said he's never been afraid for his life like this, been going to shows for thirty years, felt fearful for his life, for the safety of the workers. When you saw this, what is your reaction when you see this? Not only was it a it was a promo on TV, but then he also spoke to the crowd. Right, there was a clip that surface of him talking to the people in your town, right. I believe it was in uh in Chicago, just outside. Yeah. When when you saw that version of the story being put out, what is your reaction? I mean, I can't tell you what Tony felt or what he was thinking, but I never did anything that would make him true for his life. But you know, he's a night he's he's he's who he is. Covered a lot of ground there with that one. Finishing up to Jack Perry saga there. Like I said before, probably put a book in on that one for good. I'm sure everybody's gonna talk about it a little bit, but as a whole mainstream thing, yeah, plays out and I think I don't know the exact quote, but he said he didn't punch anybody. He just did a little choke or something. Yeah. Yeah, well but but to me, that's that's I want to say, this is where we get. I don't want to say that's part of the business, but that's always been the thing. You know, okay, man the man, what's the problem. And it's you know, to his point, using that Chill's son is a great analogy, right, doesn't let anybody get new close, because then you have to defend yourself. So while you didn't punch anybody, you definitely felt the need put hands on them, right, And it's not saying that Jack didn't put hands on Punk either. My My question in that whole part that we listened to is why did security say you you don't have to leave, but it might make my job easier. Was Punk being threatened or were people threatening, you know, to retaliate. I mean, so there's while there's a lot of unanswered questions, I don't need to know the answers to me, Punk's laying it out like, and I'm sure there's a few punkisms in there that you know, people get changed to something else. But for Tony Conness, say, if you're for his life, maybe because he's never been a confrontation with someone where someone has actually stood up to him and said, listen, you're a joker. This company's a joke, and what you're doing and I don't need you. Maybe that was the fear of the the oh my gosh moment where someone thought, it's me for reals, for reals. But I think it, I do. I think it puts a lid on this thing. And I'd like to think that after this, everybody stops talking about this and move on to what you're doing. But what I got from this interview was here's the part of a punk that I can now appreciate more and now listening and knowing what we know from not being involved, right, you know, we know we know the information we know because it's out there, but him laying it out there for you kind of makes it more fathomable, right, more more palatable, you can understand it more. So, like I said, hats off the pill for coming out and doing the interview the way he did it. And like you said, he's getting fired up, but he's not. I from what I've known of him, had been around him for the time I did. He's not a very high voltage guy anyway. He's very very even keeled. I think, even in a pissed off nature, right, we all have that moment where we throw a tantrum or something. But he's not a very high voltage guy. So what's more intimidating than a guy who's looking you in your high very calmly letting you know that you don't you're not gonna like the way this is going. But you know the fact that it was built up from Tony Kahn himself to be more than what UNK was saying it was, and a lot of people were allowed to talk on it. A lot of people weren't a lot of stories and all these things, and so it's I find it interesting, But I really truly ask I hope this thing is dead the water get a little bit more to cover. But I think it's crazy that Jack Perry and I seem Polk may not have had like the most amazing UFC career, but he did train to be a professional fighter for under in a great gym. Yeah, for several I don't late what two years, I think at least. Yeah, why would Jack Perry go? Well, what he Jack Perry did tell Tony Shabani He's been in the business, Yeah, almost as long as most cell managers. Yeah, I mean these guys are as. These guys are managers there as far as I know. And you know, Shabani's has the big role to play in the back I don't mean manager is in. I'm talking actual backstage manage. It's me yeah, yep, yep. And and so who is Jack Perry to be causing all this? And clearly in all his years, Shabani's never had to put up with that kind of nonsense and going, hey, somebody helped me out here, because I'm not sure where this is supposed to go. But apparently, no matter what your uh position in to what your role is. There's still the inmates are still run the asylum. There's one more thing that we're not gonna I don't think I have it Mark to listen to. There was another instance before this. Obviously we talked about the first falling out, but before that, even hang Man at him, Paya and Punk had a little bit of a dispute. They long story short, were going to have a promo in the ring. They talked about beforehand what would be discussed, kind of the guidelines laid out the promo. Hangman went completely off script and just started trying to I guess you could say Berry Punk Yeah. And Punk talked about how it was really odd for him because for multiple reasons, he didn't He said, he didn't get col Cobana fired or demoted or and that's what he thought. He was just trying to be noble and stick up for his friend. But he thought in the context in the situation which it was done, was a little ridiculous. You're trying to draw money you have you need seeing Punk to look good for the rival that you're gonna have, and he just thought from a business standpoint, put everything else aside. If you're upset with him, you're sticking up for your friend. He just thought that was a really weird and not very smart way to go about it. For the business, yeah, it comes back to who's in charge of this or hey, your hangman had him paid. You can do what you want and everybody will have to understand it. But I think that's fine for the I think it's fine for the roster they started with, if that makes sense before you bring in like and just for clarity, I'm not sure Chris Jericho would let hang my Page get away with that either, going into business for themselves like that. But I think with the talent pool that they started with, aw that is that maybe hang in at a Page and the EVPs and you know, the Omegas and all these people that were running the show. They were cool with that. But now you're bringing in people that are seasoned, some are salty, some have, you know, a reputation in the business for being who they are, and now you're doing that and to Punk's thing, that's not what he signed up for. And you're right, how do you bring it die in? You You especially that you're a big punk fan and you were so excited to see him come in and it kind of to me, I thought, it deflated your old image of everything because of how it'll wing down. And I think that's what happened to the to the wrestling community. Everybody was let down on this whole thing. Yeah, definitely. Everybody had their own agenda, for sure, and none of that was good for the big picture. Let's jump back into the million dollar question here. I'll queue it up on Tony Kahn as a boss. Gribe what it's like working for Tony Man. That's a loaded question, you know, because I don't want this to be I don't. I don't, I don't. I don't like the drama, you know, But I mean it's the truth. Is the truth. Like, he's he, He's not a boss, he's he. He's a nice guy, you know. And I think ultimately that is a detriment to the company. But it's not my company, you know. I just I'm an I'm an outsider. I thought I was brought in to, you know, sell merchandise and tickets and draw you know, numbers for paper us and stuff. And I clearly did that, and but that's not what the place was about. And some people didn't like that is there any part of you that's always like, Man, I'm forty five, I'm tired of this shit. Yeah, very much. So yeah, and what I mean, did you you saw my exasperated press conference when I'm eating Mindy's Yes, of course, drink and spin drift. So because it's very much a guy who's just I'm too old for this shit. So you just you just talked about how this all started. Also in this conversation, there's this quote by Saampunk and I thought it was one of the most telling things of this conversation. He said, this is a quote. If you are more happy with the fact that some goof said you had a five star match, but the building is only one fourth full, then we're not in the same business. All I can say it's boom bingo bullseye exactly. And I think it's two different businesses. It's you can't you can't start a football team and changed all the rules to the game and changed how it's played and how you can dress and what you know what, all these things and then playing you're still in the same business. So you can't be mad when the NFL runs you out of business. Just an analogy, right, you cannot start a professional wrestling company. No one's gonna recreate ECW. They went against the grain of everything except the business model. It was still handled the saying your stars were handled the same it was there, but they became part of it. The problem is that that ae W is the new version of ECW, except the boys are running the asylum. There was the boss in ECW, d Paul Aimen, then there were guys who were underneath him, Tommy Dreamer and all these guys that were that were the voices and the yes and no and put the stay up of approval. You brought Cim Punk and you were super, super excited when he was coming back, and you're like, yeah, business is about to pick up, because Punk means business. He draws people, He makes these numbers come down when you prought him in. But you brought him into a company because you could afford to bring him in. You didn't know what to do with him, but you could afford. You could physically pay him what he wanted and maybe mislead him into thinking he could help build this company. So I wonder if the same approach has been taken with Copeland, the same approach has been taken with so My question is would people get away with this with Christian, with Copeland, with Jericho or do they only get away with the people they think they can And because now Tony's friends with everybody, he thought Punk wasn't his friend and their relationship was stronger than Pump's relationship with this business. Does that make sense? Yeah, And so Pumps like, that's not why I went there. He could have joined Impact Wrestling at the time. He could have went but you know, maybe he was misled a little bit, but Tony made sure he did anything one as and we all know Tony Khan's a fan, we're all fans of the business. But he said there's no boss, and there's no one willing to stand up and say I'm the freaking boss. It's clearly under the impression that he was there to help the So you you not once and craig me from wrong, not once, but twice. You got rid of see Himpunk in the same company. But you've got a Jack Perry, You've got these some other guys. And it's not not go to these other guys either, because that's the that's the culture they're they're being raised in in his business. Who I feel sorry for it in the future when they try to go somewhere else and realize the world doesn't work that way, the world of professional wrestling doesn't work that way. And for the guys who know it doesn't work that way, they keep their mouths shut and they watch it and a lot of them just they're flecting paychecks. But Punk, clearly he's not that guy who just wants to paycheck. He you know, he felt misled, he spoke up, he did what he had to do, and he's out and he's back where he wants to be and where people want him, and they've been to hold is into the fire of putting asses in seats, selling merchandise and bringing up numbers, and that's all he wants, which he already has right to prove his point. That's what he wants. Why did Tody leave ae W because he wasn't doing and getting what he wanted out of it, so he had to go search for it. Where Tod go back to WWE. But he's putting asses in ceas, he's drawing numbers, he's selling merchandise, he's making the brand bigger, better and moving forward. So you can't you can't downplay punks reasoning and lift Cody's reasoning, you can't downplay punt reasoning, but lift g. Cargill's reasoning, you can't heat pump spelling it out for you. And why Shaffani deals with it is beyond me. But sure, sure you know people are still talking about it. That's twenty eleven, Yeah, thirteen years, So you do that, you say all that, And it's fascinating going back and watching it, because it's clear that Tony's a little bit uncomfortable sitting next to you. Nothing he'd never heard before. Maybe he didn't know that it would come out right then and there should have handled it. What happens when that scrim is over? Went home, got surgery, got my arms fixed. Can you not talk about that? I don't think I can. That's brawl out right. Yeah, that's the one where there is an actual Yeah, is there anything you could tell us about that? I didn't have to sign an NDA for anything I did wrong? Interesting, what does that mean? It means I have nothing to hide and I don't give a shit if so, just for the record, once and for all, can you tell us what happened? You know? There is Oh for that particularly, there's an ndakay for that one. Yeah, you did speak to Mark Ramundy when you came back right of ESPN, my pal, and you did say that you kind of regretted the way that was all handled. Is that sure? I mean, I think you can go back and be well, I wish I never did the scrumb Scrums are stupid anyway, for if there just wasn't a scrum. Yeah, those things are Those things are really cringe. Yeah. Yeah, like it's pro wrestling. Maybe do what like I did one Like the day I came back, I was like, oh, this is a big deal, Like I get it, you know, but the problem you have with with pro wrestling is just anybody with a Twitter calls themselves a reporter or a journalist or whatever. And I experienced a firsthand, you know, the amount of misinformation that came out based on that. And again I will go back to you want to believe all that shit. I'm Bruiser Brody and I'm running around, I'm running through the hallways and I'm just fucking sucker punching people and all in them. Great man, awesome, believe it. Believe it because I'm over here and I'm making money off it. And you ain't believe it. But it's just the amount of just lies and bullshit. It feels a little bit good to say that. A lot of it is like and bullshit, you know, but everyone's gonna the people that don't like me based on that stuff. They don't like me anyway, chup ahead here in your mind when that was done, did you think that perhaps you were done with the company? Yeah, you would have preferred that. And and for the record, did you did you injure your tricup? Can you? Can you tell us that? If not? You know, I understand in the incident or was it in the match? Okay? Damn? Yeah? Will you ever be able to talk about this? I don't know. Is there a I don't know. I don't know how, I don't why why does anybody want to talk about Well, just for the record, you know, just to know it's grown into this ridiculous, this ridiculous thing, you know, Like again, just go ahead and believe believe what you want. So you so you you go away, and it's kind of good time, mane because obviously you never want to get hurt. But we don't know if you're suspended, if you're hurt, if you're recovering from certain you just disappear. Did you ever get close to being let go at that point you said, at the beginning of all this, you said, please, you know, let's just do it here. While nobody in the company spoke to me for well, I don't know, six months. How's that possible. I don't know. Not a soul paid for my surgery book, my surgery, you know, thankfully doctor Sampson, who I knew from WWE of good rapport with like he helped me with that. But like I was on my own and all that stuff. And you know, if you think I deserve to be you know, fired or treated like that, that's your opinion. It's none of my business what you think of me. But it was like, you know, doing this one and the recovery for this one based on how the recovery went for that one. I'm just like, man, it's night and day. And it's almost the comparison between you know, places where there's structure and there's protocols and there's professional people in charge of things, and I'm not having to research and find a pt spot. You know, I had no help, like nothing, and that's insane to me. A lot to unpack with that one, and this was a I guess the point that hit me pretty are it's basically imply without being able to say it, that he's injured in this fight with the elite backstage, whatever happened, he has a torn bicep from it, he gets no help at all from the company on rehabbing it, paying for the surgery. He funds the surgery himself, does all the rehab. Has Tom clearly on his own on this one. And the meanwhile they go six months without speaking to him after this night. That's that's the part that is absolutely insane. I've been had you heard that happen till that point? I never heard that. I've never heard of that ever. And this is about me, But I'm the only one I can use as the example that I feel comfortable with. No, he didn't stay the WB screwed him over with staff infection. He just didn't like the way they medically treated it. The way they treated it. Yet they never they did not treat it. They didn't just not pay for his injury. Yeah, they paid for the ship that happened to him there he w did not. Yeah, I'm just lost on the whole no one talked to me for six months. I've been in Puerto Rico, a bit of Mexico, Europe, around the world. And if you're injured, whether it be youtu, if you're injured at work, is what you're trying to sfer work, whether it's in ring, slipping on the floor, behind the thing, getting out of a plane, twisting your knee, if it's anything that remotely affects your work and your work related business with the company. They're on the phone with you every day. Someone's checking up on you. Hey, what is it? And and to Pal's point, like I can say, I never had the book anything, They took care of it. They let you know, Hey, here's where it is, here's your timeline, here's the thing, and okay, hey, we'll check you on here in a couple of days or whatever the case is. It's not a kumbayat because we like you. That's how businesses are run. Yeah, they'll cut you off there. It's from a manager at standpoint, what the you know what I do? Asides from creating content you have to pay for somebody gets hurt of work. So I'm sure that from a legal standpoint that came into whatever the fallout of this was and there there's no doubt in my mind. He can't talk about it, but that had to come into play with this, I mean completely. You can't get hurt at work, whether you're messing around or not. Right, they're liable for it, exactly. And I think the fact that no one did should have riled him up even more like I'm sure it did. We he used the two arms right, the right one and the left one. This one I got fixed. But it was that happened with this kind of company. Here's this one that I'm coming back from him healthy, I'm feeling good. All the things that everybody's in contact it you brought this man in to raise your business or did you bring him in to say you brought That's really what it comes down to, from the strum to anything else we talked about. Tony Khan sat in there, except they're like a deer in the headlights, like a kid. He didn't have an answer, and no one was giving them the answers, and he sat there and just let everything happen. And it sounds like with this thing that he cannot talk about, he just let everything happen until someone has to be accountable and then either Tony's getting bad advice or however it was handled. But does that HR department or the legal department not have a conversation? Yeah, who's who's running this thing? And I just never have heard of someone not being listen, whether you're paid Punk one hundred dollars a year or a million dollars a year, you're paying someone out in six months? Do you not even have contact with him? How is someone in your organization not have contact with him? Where's he at? Where we at? What can we do? Hey? In the meantime, can we you know, sort things? I maybe it's just I don't know. I just don't understand the mentality. Yeah, that Chad, Michael's asking more questions here, Michael, so checking out Punk, make sure he's okay. It's stack affection. I thought you said the doctors they sent him to. Yeah, the doctor on the site, on the on site that traveled with them was what he was dealing with. That's all she wasn't right. Yeah, he also had a huge lawsuit with him. Yeah, he got a second opinion on and that's when they discovered the staff infection. Right, were they checking in on him? Well? I don't know about that, Chad Michael, but they're certainly paying for it now. I believe if they weren't checking on him, Chad, that legal was checking on him. Somebody corporate checking on someone, you know. I mean, he did say he went a quite a long time without talking to them. Yeah, but it's they had reached out to him originally and he just said, no, I'm not coming back, and that's when the legal ball got rolled for b to terminate. But then he didn't. But to that point he didn't need talk to anybody because it was legal legal talking. There was always a conversation as opposed to six months with no communication whatsoever. You know what I really find interesting and and it's just me trying to put a little levity into this conversation. I would love to hear what Punk and Cody have to say about well their Their former employer, Cody Rhodes came on his show a few days later, and he basically said he had a different experience to seem Punk, obviously, and that Sampunk has his own opinion, but he didn't quite look at it quite as harshly obviously as CM Punk. Well that was Smpunk was still working for aw after the fight happened where he got injured. Yeah yeah, yeah yeah for another year. Yeah, still on paper. Yeah, yep. Weird. I don't know how you have somebody hurt and you don't Yeah, who's held accountable for that? I'm sure, like I said, from legal standpoint, that had a play into it. There's no way you just don't. Yeah, I treat somebody's injury. And then that's why there's an NDA. And that's why he just said, you're exactly right, that's why there's an NDA. I'm sure that comes into play. Here, will jump back in here. Only got a few more things here. You know, the negatives really, Yeah, I just I I look at it more. Something you don't consider that is a possibility. You know. I worked, I worked with Sting in the Greensboro Coliseum. Like it's fucking wow. Yeah, it's it's it's pretty crazy. I think the positives definitely outweigh you know, the negatives. Really, it's yeah, I just I I I look at it more like I was. I thought I was. I thought I was coming in too to help to help business. If I could teach something great, uh, And I I think I was just brought in for other reasons, you know, like their their their business. I know a lot of people are gonna be upset. It's just not predicated. It's not a real business. It's not about what do you mean by that. It's not about selling tickets, it's not about drawing money, it's not about making money. It's just not what's it about. I don't know, really. I think having good matches maybe, and there's nothing wrong with that. I was recently at an indie show. Another great question asked there another great follow up, He no regrets so what we jumped in a little bit late, but San Punk has no regrets about being there. He actually he would go back and do it again if he could. The moments and the relationships obviously that he created from that. But at the end of the day, those guys, and he goes on to say, they did not want to work with him. There was an attempt made to bring the group together and talk about things, that was arranged by both parties, and it was squashed by the elite side. They didn't want to have a conversation with him, didn't want to make money with him. I feel like this is the personal opinion. I feel like they Aw's made it known for me, we're not gonna be that sports entertainment. We're going to be professional wrestlers. And they made a statement and they were not going to get caught up in all the cookie cutter and all your pro wrestling things. And that's not why Maxie was there, and it's not why this one was there. It's not why these people came in. And they're gonna do it their way. That's what the people want to see. And they found someone who who loved and was a fan of what they did in Japan and all these other places, and he said, I'm here in I'm gonna back this for for pont to say they're not in it too clearly, we talk about the live of you know, they're TVs and all these things, and it's not they're not selling the tickets. They're not doing these things. And if that's their business model, then they're doing it the way they want. But you can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't compare yourself every week to the WWE, to NXT, to New Japan to TNA to all these things if you're not gonna play on the same level that they're playing. And that's the problem. They want to be in the mix, but they do want to do things their own way. And what happens when that money runs out or that time tree runs out or TBS or tnd's had enough of this experiment, And where do these guys go now? Because they've been groomed that they that that's the way the business is. They veteran guys know that, Hey, they're gonna run it. They're gonna run the gambit. Hopefully they can make some change they clerk wanted to do, and they're they're gonna do what's good for business, and they're gonna do it their way. Yeah, somebody said, somebody said that if you get in a fight in a workplace, should be fired immediately. You got to realize he got not only did he get in a fight, he got in a fight with the vps of the company, right, and nobody got fired. Nobody got fired. One guy was sent on, one guy was said, hey, maybe it's good if you go home. The other guys were kept off. Then when they came back, they immediately started doing the same ship back into this same token the bear stuff. So yeah, I've never heard of a company where a VP could have a fist fight with somebody, and and and I'm sure this again this goes into the non disclosure agreement. Yep, exactly right, that's the whole problem. I mean, let's be honest, they probably couldn't fire him without paying a handsome, very even more handsome sum at that point in time. Oh, I believe an extraordinary amount of money. Just your loss once your loss arguably starts a fight with you, right, and then backs to people who lack of a veterum gang up on you with this thing and rushing your loss. Yep. It's a it's a strange it's a strange animal, man, but it'd be clear for me. It's it clears a lot of things up because at least you're getting some kind of answer from it. And and Punk said like, hey, I'm I'm not the guy. I'm not perfect. I'm not saying this, and that I've done some things. I've had the same attitude as they have. And but this is what I thought I was coming in would be less upset about what I said in an hour. And I don't think you said anything that would make people that upset. If I'm being honest, it's it is what it is like I understand it and being you know, this delicate situation, but like I I'll say, I'll say it again because obviously the headlines from you know, lousy reporters is going to be like, oh, he said this, and he said that I wish them all well, I legitimately do it. And honestly, some people might think the most offensive thing that I could possibly say is we're just not in the same business. But we're not. And I think maybe if I looked at it that way at the time, I maybe would have handled things differently. But I'm a dude who I wear my heart on my sleeve, you know what I mean. And I wasn't just hired to be a wrestler. I very much had two contracts. I was, you know, consultant to Tony or whatever the hell it was. So if you're going to tell me that, oh you can't even tell all the wrestlers to do with okay, great, But it's kind of the problem is like, you know, we give away too much. So there's that small niche audience that is more consumed about what's going on in my life and what's going on with theirs, and like this backstage stuff and all that stuff. I'm just glad to be out. They obviously didn't want me there. Do you believe that? Yeah, one hundred percent. When you say they, do you mean like like the elite those guys. I can't imagine Tony didn't want you there. Yeah. Oh, I'm sure Tony probably still wishes I was there, right, you know, do you mean like certain certain guys in the back. Yeah, but that's like four or five guys, right, there's a much bigger locker room. I would venture to say that if we pulled everyone, most would want you there. Now. Again, I don't want to get anybody in trouble. Sure, yeah, Like again that that whole all that entire locker room hates them and like all that stuff, like get the fuck out of here with that. That that's that's projection to like the nth degree. That's Oh, how are we gonna try to hurt somebody's feelings? Oh? Everybody hates you, Like that's fucking high school shit. Man. You know, Okay, everybody hates me. Well, now I come over here and everyone's like, oh shit, everybody hates them. What's gonna happen? Well, I guess we're going to tune into Monday night rot a seat. Did you feel like they never wanted you there from the jump? Yeah? Really? Yeah? Well, like what made you feel that way? Just interactions, just the way out, like just the way things are handled, like you know. Conversely, when you came back to w W, were you nervous about any seeing a lot of comments about if they got to find a work with their boss, their company wouldn't pay for it. I would put my life savings on the fact that if you're if their boss approached you, then a fight happened and there was an injury from it, the company would have to pay for it. Libel. They're liable for that injury. Whether they con terminate you or not. Sure, but the injury is liable or let alone in this particular situation where it's arguably you know, they approached which led to it. Yeah, the liability is like that, man, I mean, it would happen. It's like that in every work environment. You got hurt at work, they have to pay, whether they fire you or not afterwards. What different is a different discussion. But liable for that instance, the injury that happened there, they would pay for it. They'd after you. So there's a lot that goes into that. Here's what's the biggest thing I found interesting about this part that we just watched. I had two contracts. I was about to say that, yet that crushes that he wasn't just there to be a wrestler. And so perhaps that's what led to the not wanting there, because maybe Tony didn't consult with his EVPs and the people who were in charge and signed punt to two contracts, one to be a consultant, which means now he has input on how things are run or these hid offer pinions and suggestions then, which then makes me feel like you're coming into my backyard and now going to tell me how to run the business that I started or the way we want to do things here. So maybe that's the thing that set it all off. But very few contracts, ye, no non disclosure. All these things start to make sense now. When he was saying things like we're trying to run a business here and stuff at that press conference that posts screm right. That ties it in with that, it doesn't make sense. Now it makes a lot of sense. It's very enlightening. This whole interview is very enlightened. This conversation ends on a positive note about how great that has come back to Dad A b has been and questions asked if he didn't ever make event wrestle anting again with that way on him hard, he said he didn't think so. It would be just, you know'd be disappointing. But at the end of the day, he's done a whole lot for wrestling and he has a lot more to give and whatever role that would be. Yeah, And but look at the evolution of cmpunk so its own admittance. He was the guy years ago I want that, I deserved it, didn't wouldn't wut up with it, And he's learned along the way. Those are the most successful bats in this business. And go through the history of this business and you'll find the people stone cold same way it was there. Brett Hart had to be his way. He had his splitting to if it was this way, I'm leaving by the way. They all come back, but they all come back because they all grow up. We all grow up in one way, shape or form. Oh we all have that oh my gosh moment, that holy shit moment, And sometimes it happens when you're removed from the situation you didn't think you deserved or you deserve more from and then you appreciate more. That's just life. That's not wrestling. That to me, that's life. That's fifty eight years on this earth of figuring it out and going this all makes sense. And I'm to me, I'm happy for me. I'm happy that he that he's still has the fire to want to be that guy, but now the knowledge and is responsible enough to know that that doesn't define who he is as a performer, as a character, and his legacy in the business. That's that's just a side note. That makes me super super happy for him and so proud to hear him speak like the great er you literally goodmendous interview about two hours long. I encourage you to go listen to it. I'll I will attach it to this episode in the show notes and the descriptions, so if you haven't heard it, I encourage you to go back and listen to it in full. We just picked snippets of it and went from there. But yeah, it's a it's a sad ending and I think sometimes you think the grass is going to be greener, and he even references than an aw promo, But looking back at it now is Greener on the other side all the time, and right, he used to realize for do to B all of its flaws it has and it does have major falls and has had major falls with people. There is a structure there there, there is a system in place. Yeah, that does not seem to be the case in aw AW comes out Bill and I thought they and this is a closing thought here will be closing this episode up. They didn't need to say anything at all. Tony Kahan didn't come out of the gates on Twitter. Their one response though, was sending edge. Adam Cope went out to start Dynamite and he brings up the BS. It's no reaction from the crowd at all, and the show is He basically says that this is the best wrestling, that's what we're here to do, and so let's focus on that and get no reaction and the show started. I didn't think they needed to say anything. So you had you had Adam Copeland come out, who wasn't there during this, right, right, so Egypt going off the information he's been given, he wasn't there through any of it. FPR closed the show earlier this week without mentioning anything about it, just saying this is how I make my living and I love being here, trying to reinforce that AEW is a good place to be. Ware Like, to your point, they should have just left it alone. Now you're force feeding me to believe that. Yeah, you know, and I think they should have left it alone. To your point, and I think you're exactly right on them. How hard do you think it was for Tony con Now to tweet something? Oh? I think I think that maybe somebody got hold of him and said don't don't be that guy. For one, they got ahold of him and said you can't. I'd like to think someone got a hold of him and said, don't be that guy. Let other people, uh take the heat and you know, make a little common or something. You don't need to do that. Run this bird, you know, fly this plate the way you wanted to, you know, to go. What did you get into it for? What was your what was your goal? What was your I know he had to have a five year plan. Did he reach it? And what's his five year plan going forward? So and again I started off this episode saying, I'm really glad he didn't come out of the gate on Twitter or anything. I think he had his hands full going back and forth with Eric Bischoff. Just let's sleeping dogs lie man. Hats off the pug for the interview. By the way, Ariel again, he can't say enough about the interview. Probably the best interview of the year and we're not even halfway through the year. But yeah, aw, leave it alone and don't do your thing. That's the thing. Do your thing and stop worrying about what other people are doing if that's your business model, but please don't keep bringing in resources that can help you and have that thing be the thing that continuously bites you in the in the box of it. Fortunately for a w this has not been the last of issues or drama. Every workplace has that. But again, this feels like the end of this chapter is I'm closed now good, I'm glad. Was this better than you thought it would be? This interview, this discussion, this do you it? Do you say? It would also be put this to bed? I think so. I think it puts it to bed. It definitely was better than I would have I think watching this like, oh man, I have to listen to this because this is gonna get Really he didn't want to talk about that stuff. But I think he did a great job of it. And I'll say this again, the one thing you can always say about Punk is he's real. He's real. I mean, he's a savvy business guy. Yeah. And and what is it three things? There's three truths, your truth, their truth, and the real truth. Yeah, but we haven't heard their truth. We've only heard punks truth, and so we have to we have to take that at face value. But I think he did a great job with the interview. I think he was as open as he could be. He didn't put the blame on anyone. He took share of his his downfalls in it and how it went. And I think it was just a great interview. And it allows people, the people that were hanging on for the meat and potatoes of this story, it's done, be happy with what he's going to be doing when he comes back. Look forward to the matches and the and the the wars he's going to have coming up on WWE. And hopefully this is a it's done and aw moves forward too. It's important to that's yeah for everybody, everybody, it's done. Move on, do your thing, yep, stop worrying about if that's the thing that keeps getting you headlines and bringing people to watch your product. Then you're in trouble. Yeah, and that shouldn't be it. So boom, let's sleep with dogs Lie boom this weekend, depending on when you're listening. So we we know you and I know wrestling is coming up this weekend, and it's the first start. It's the super Bowl, it's the thing, and it's the first start for everybody across the wrestling world, not just w WE. This has been marked as the start for everybody's revamping and everybody's gonna start doing new things. So yeah, just focus on that. Another good episode to hear, Bill. Yeah, man, I know it'll it'll, it'll do well. And intent is not just that. I think it's for me somebody who thought about this a lot. It truly is the book end of it. Yeah, So it's a little bit of a I don't know, I guess that validation for me. Yeah, I was curious and I feel like I really wanted to know this. Just now I'm just I'm done with it. So let me let me ask you this one one last question on this episode. As a CM punk fan, as we all know you are, and rightfully So are you happy with this being the end of this conversation. Yes, cool, And I think the think it served its purpose. It did. I think it was good. I don't think it was. It puts AW in a negative light, but it also puts AW, like you said, in a position to start from ground zero and build up and focus on the right things. Now, yeah, because that is over. But here's the problem though. It didn't just happen because Sam Punk was there, right, that was just the perfect thing to make a fire. All the ingredients to make a fire were there. That could happen again. Yeah, And the way they handle it will have to be different moving forward, policies, protocols. As a business, they have to grow from a human resource standpoint, they have to be prepared for these things. And I think if there's one takeaway at the end of the day for AW, they do want this long standing future in this industry. It's got to be that aspect of it. So I hope it's also a new beginning for AW as well. I hope so too, especially with some of the talent they have, some of the leadership that's there in front of them if they choose to use it. So I think after the after media weekend. I think it's a it's a fresh start for everybody, and competition makes everybody better, and there's room for for a lot of players, not just one one player in this in this game. And I hope they I hope they do well. I'm not I'll never bash them. I just question really hard sometimes how it comes about. And it's only that question when it is a negative thing. So the negative is over. Plucks moved on. They've moved on. Everybody move on. I'm excited for what's coming up, and I'm glad we I'm glad we got to have this conversation because this this does tied up in a good knock for USS and allows us to move on. Yeah, it does. I think. Man, we've had a lot of a lot of people listening tonight. I appreciate you hanging out with us for the last hour and forty five minutes. Well crazy. Obviously, next week we'll be back with all things WrestleMania. This week, though we had a kind of a topic to fill in that gap. And again, you know this this podcast is live stream. This show is live streamed every Thursday at nine nine fifteen pm ish. That time period but the episodes release a week a week later. That's about as good as I can do with all the other stuff that I do. But that also gives you the benefit of benefit of coming to this live stream being a part of it. You get this content earlier, of course, which is as we re, I want aways say, revamped, but as we've kind of restructured this content over the last six months now, and this is the way you've kind of gone, and it's it's it's more fun. I mean, of course, we're all for we love talking about that old stuff, but it's hard to get away from this interaction and talking with you guys live. So we really appreciate and there's a lot of you out there that have stayed with this whole stream. We always appreciate that and all the support that we get. If you want to listen to stuff later, build them out dot com about a week later in audio and video form on YouTube. Yeah, build them on dot com. We'll get you everything. So of course. Jeff Townsend Media, Jeff townsendot Media, home of all this and a lot of other good content. Bill, you're closing thoughts before we hit our stuff and get out of here. Yeah, Jeff the huge thanking everybody who does this live stream with us. We appreciate it. Keep the questions, keep the comments. You've got to start some of the greatest conversations we've been having in the past six months. So thank you very much. Yeah, this is exciting man. And then and and you, Jeff, you really make this a good play on words experience. And you know, don't don't stop the way you formatted this and the way we go because you're changing the way things are done in my opinion, And I appreciate it because I like going back to the old school stuff and discussing history. But I also love this time in the business when there's so much to talk about. Yeah, and I mean into the next couple of months especially, we're gonna have a lot to talk about. So thank you everybody who tunes in, and and Jeff always thank you for the for the hard work and putting the time in on this and just everybody, keep it up. Thanks appreciate you. Bill, And it's always a fun few hours of my week and big wrestling fan and it's when I get to talk about it. Don't talk about it a whole lot to anybody else besides uh, you know people maybe online a little bit, but this is kind of that few hours of nostalgia and just you know, al it's an escape for me, right, yes, yes, takes us away from our reality, is a little bit. Yeah exactly. Bill, say your magic and I'll say mind, We'll get out of here, all right, everybody, you know me, do what you say, say what you mean, mean what you do, and keep being you and keep being great. Jeff Townsend Media says you good night. And the question is do I stay here? Will you be back? Oh you gonna come back? Will you be back? Oh? You coming? And bad