What you gonna do, brother, when Jeff Townsend media runs wild on you? All right, all right, all right, This is Jeff Townsend and Bill Deamont's with me. Here is always, and you are joining us for another live episode of the Bill Dumont Experience. I say live. If you're listening or watching this later, we're actually doing this live at nine pm Eastern Time, every Thursday across social media platform. So if you want to be a part of the live interaction, make sure you join us live. Bill, What do you I mean? It's fun, this is live. All those years of live television and things like that, I prefer this so much more coolest, better than Yeah, you're used to it. Man, you've been a little you've been out of the live game for a while. Now you're getting back in it. You feel good about it? Well, I feel good about it because we're in control of it. That's true. I feel really good about it. We're out of percent and control of it. Yeah, unlike other situations you've been in, this particular one, we are hundred percent and control of so. Man, hopefully you had a good week. How's the foundation doing? I mean we start every episode off with that because it's important, super super busy as we continue. One of the things that got very busy for us over the past two years is Red Ribbon Week and a lot of that with the elementary schools and middle schools, you know, talking about with the kids and you know, things like that. So we had a very very cool week within the state of Florida, and tomorrow evening I head out and we have a bunch of schools in New Jersey next week. So everything's going really good, man. Really, I had a great interview with a with a senior from American University in DC today who was doing a very interesting piece on impaired driving and we had a nice forty minute talk and the foundation will be brought up in that, so I'm excited to see what she comes up with at the end of the semester with that. But everything's going great, man, Thank you always for asking, And yeah, we just keep keep moving forward and everything we do. You said last week potentially some big news coming. Is that still in the works. Yeah, I'm going I'm gonna keep with the potential for now. Potentially big news tomorrow, which would be Friday for everybody who's listening and not live with us Friday, the twenty seventh, I should hear what I'd like to hear, and that'd be pretty pretty significant news for the foundation. So I'm excited about that. That's awesome. So I mean, maybe maybe next week we'll hear more maybe yeah, yeah, play potentially fingers crossed, figures crossed. So yeah, the foundation is for a great cause. And of course you can go to jeff tshirts dot com and find the Foundation T shirt there. Proceeds, of course go to the foundation or want to plug that, and I also to plug Jeff T shirts. Yeah, I like Jeff T shirts. I like because listen, not only is my T shirt coming the five X, but it's somebody the other ones, dude. So I'm gonna start I'm gonna start donning some more JT. T shirts soon. Oh there you go. Yeah, you'll be no, no'll know what the hell are you wearing, but you'll well look cool though, dang it. It'll be the walking billboard. There you go. You can get the keep being you keep Being Great shirt. Yes, yes, that's that's my favorite. That's definitely my favorite bill Tonight, those of us that lie, they're going to see the title that I have titled this it is Rick Flair is all Elite and TNA is back. Now, before we dive into all this stuff, Bill, I must confess I have not watched any wrestling this week except for clips. So usually I'm the one that's watched more than you. I think this week you got me beat. We we might be even this week. And the only reason we might be and here they are making their appearance is always my two hoodlum dogs. But the chair is blocking in the view. I think block him this time, but you see him. He's as big as the chair and he just kind of moves it out of the way. She's ALU, man, no, come over here. I'm trying to talk here. Thank you. Yes, So I think I'm with you. A lot of it had to do with, you know, you know, we're huge baseball fans in this house, so a lot of watching the you know, the championship series that we're going on, and of course, my my junior version of me played his last two varsity games for the fall season, so we've been baseball abby this week. But I'm like you, have caught a lot of the clips. I've watched a lot of the highlights from from everything so I think we'll be on the same page. I think we're good, all right. Hey, I'll take it, man. So that being said, let's let's kick it off with the major news that came out. First of all, I have not watched it yet, and I'm going to there. There's a lot of people saying that this was their favorite episode of Dynamite ever aw Dynamite last night. I've heard different different opinions from it, and I think a lot of it had to do with with Rick Flair coming out. I did catch the last part of last night's show, you know, I'm I like what, I don't know what's going on because I think we've talked about it in the past. A lot of things. We could miss a bunch of weeks and not really miss anything. But I think they had a good cliffhanger for a finish, but which I haven't seen yet. So I don't want to stay hear an act like I'm an expert on it. Well, I'm gonna leave it like that because I don't want to ruin it for you because I'm really not a fan of spoilers. But the Flair thing, the best part about Rick Flair coming out to me was stings reaction. Yeah, and we're gonna and I have that. I have that. Yeah, So if you want me to go ahead, I go ahead and we'll get it. Yeah. I hit it, man, that was the best part to me. Let's hit it and make sure I got the right one here. Now, Tony con has a very special gift for seeing and I'm proud to bring out that special gift right now. Well what is it? Do you have any idea? Then I'll wait a minute. No way, hold on the nature brick Flair so much history. As you said, I'll never forget that cutch the Champions match. It puts thing on the Matthew Grephics thing thanks to flam. You know that in life there are moments that are magical. They're few and they're far between. And that's the magic of the chemistry of whatever you do in life that makes you the best. I thirty five years ago, thirty five years ago, this gentleman, I set history on TVs first CLATCHA Champions I guess Russelvania and brother, I've told him this when I'm ducted him in the Hall of Fame to go far. Fifty five minutes in the match, thirty five years ago or tonight is hard. He never took a deep press. He lived up the hall the potential, and he is not only one of the greatest wrestlers in the history of repusess one of the biggest celebrities. But damnit, he's probably the nicest guy I've ever known. So when I got an invitation, and I'm saying this from the bottom of my heart, when I got an invitation from Tony, mister Conne, they come and be part of this. Man, I want to be all the way till is it March. I guess damn it that time flies, my brother. If you'll have me, man, I want to ride the wagon with you. Man to talk about putting somebody on the spot, right, So let's start off with the obvious question, what does that mean? I think you know, so if you go by everything that's gone, because you know this, this blew up every social media platform on the planet, and I think you know this leads to a lot of people guessing. But here's what I here's what I here. I'm gonna be the Deabie downtery. Here's what they don't want to see. I don't want to see Rick Russell and the Eat me, I don't, and I say that with all due respect and sincerity. Are you that because just this video, I mean cuts off. But what happens is one of my favorite heels of all time. Christian Cage the best, one of the best hills of all time, no doubt, one of my favorites. I'll go out the record and say every day of the week comes out. He kind of throws out a challenge for Darby, Allen and Stein to gather up a tag team partner. They could use the old he said, a classic Christian and another great Christian Cage promo. Quite frankly, he kind of mentions, Hey, you want to tag you want to have Rick Flair tag along? That's fine, but his pacemaker might give out. He references something like that is all your reference is how you're bringing up here? Bill That it was kind of partially maybe potentially tease, but not really full out. But I think you were gonna get that from whether that was the conversation before the evening or not, You're gonna get that from from Flair. He's gonna give the people like the man's a master yeah of manipulating the crowd and getting the people invested in things, and uh so, I think that the tea's the thought of Flair getting in the ring is what's gonna draw a different audience for for ae W. So, I think there's a lot of things that went into this. I personally don't want to see Rick Russell at ae W. I would love for him to be the corner guy and get the get the get the the bings in there on on certain you know, heels and things like that along the way. But Sting screwed. He has to do this on his own. Darby Allen's banged up, can't do anything. He's banged up from that Christian cage match. Well he and he's banged up from the stupid stunts he does when he's not wrestling. I mean, let's face it, the things he does, I mean that's a whole different conversation. Yeah, but I think Sting's got He's got guy with one arm, He's got flair, And I think Christian was the perfect segue to all of that, tying it in. I think that really brought everybody back to the show when Christian came out. But I think you're gonna see Sting do the do the greatest hits. You know from what I understand is talk of him and edge tagging and and you know some of the top baby faces in the company. Tageris sting along the way. I mean, I would personally, I would love to see a surprise every month, so three what three or four more surprises every month, somebody coming out. I'd love to see Luger come out. I'd love to see you know, stings guys come out and and things like that, and we may see that. But I think it was really cool for Flair to say, Hey, if you'll have any brother, I'm here for the for the for the long haul, which is till Mark. So genius to me is you bring a different crowd into AW Now Yeah, uh, Flair did co I don't. I don't want to get I don't know how recent it was. Preset it was on Joe Rogan's podcast, and he basically said that he really can't be involved with right now simply because all the other business dealings he's involved in, they're gonna want to cut of it. So that's going that to turn him away from any sort of Legends deal and all that, which I'm sure opened the door for this situation where Tony Kahn probably legally a little bit more reasonable and allowance on that, so which I think probably brought was able to bring Rick flat and easier. He's probably more negotiable with the I don't know if it's the correct word or not, but the loyalty to Vince. Does it need to be there because Vince isn't there anymore, you know what I mean, It's not the same company. So I think, yeah, a little a little easier to sleep on that because he has gone pretty public saying he's how much he respects Fitts McMahon. Yeah, and he you know, his relationship with with Hunter and and everybody else. But you know it's uh, listen, Flair is one of the best and he's one of the best businessmen there ever was in this business. He's making more money now than he probably was ever. Yeah, and he's gonna take he's gonna take advantage of the opportunity. So good good on him, Good on Uh. I'm not hold off on saying good on Tony Kahan forgetting that get. I want to see where it goes to As a fan, I'd like to see where it goes. But it's a good it's a good jumping off point, man, how do you go wrong with Flair coming out? And I mean yea for people that were there during that time, Yet Shavani, Sting and Flare in the ring again on talk to us about that bill, because you were a part of w CW for all those years. How are these two guys, these two guys being Rick Flair and Sting, how are they viewed in that company? But I'm not just talking obviously, I know how I viewed him, how the house fans view them. But talk to us backstage, and it was like tall you and the guys gals for people that weren't caught up in all the hulla blue and I say, the politics of all the things that were going on, and Flair's very vocal about how the company was run the last you know, X amount of years, and and Sting will talk about it, and we all talk about it, but you know, Flair nailed it. Like Steve Borden is one of the nicest guys walking walking the earth, I was avoided that political yeah, and cultivate there, didn't he? You know? For for all of us who had a chance to get to know him as a person, you appreciate it. I mean, we all have our moment where we fly off the handle or something like that, especially in this business. You know, when you're when you're passionate about it, you know, you feel a certain way. But he was highly regarded as just one of the you know, I feel like he could in my eyes, he couldn't do anything wrong, like if you cut the first time I could step in the ring where I was like, this is the coolest crap ever. Because he was genuinely a good guy who wanted good things to happen for the people he was around. And then Flair was Flair, He's you know, he's the goat. So but Rick kept to himself and kept to his people because it was a different atmosphere back there. But my best memory of these two, you know, and everybody's talking about the clash personally, the night they they worked together in Panama City to say goodbye to w CW. That was huge, man, it was huge. There was no and and and listen, Shane McMahon and everybody knew that going into it, this is the right way to end this was to have Flair and Sting go out and do what they did just to you know, I don't know their personal relationship naturally we all see it on playing out on TV now and you know when when Flair and inducted Sting and all those things, but there's a genuine respect for each other and and you know what what happened. So I think it's and then you get Shavanni who sounds the same as he did back then, and he's there and genuinely excited to see that happened. The funny part to me is, you know Sting's face and I was listening to and knowing me it was probably a la greca. You know. Dave eve Um busted open was saying, how do you how did you hide Stinging? I mean, how'd you hide Flair the whole day? Because that was a genuine reaction. And if you're if you're Rick, like you're not just sitting on a bus. Rick wants to go out meet everybody and see everybody and people and he wants to be around it. So I think it was really cool to see that, uh reaction. But to me, I thought it was really special. I I and I really appreciated the fact they kept going back to on TBS, and I think and to me, that's the thing in my opinion, that's gonna draw it's not gonna draw the typical ae W fan, and it's gonna draw wrestling fans in and it's not. That's not a shot at AW fans. Just AW fans are different. They you know, they they're there, They're a different animal. They're loyal to it. But I think there's gonna be a crossover now and I think there's interest in seeing what what happens from here. The other the other thing I thought was really cool was watching a young man like Darby All and watch all this happen in front of him. Yeah, because his the look on his face was like I'm I'm watching wrestling history here, you know, Like so that was really I thought the whole thing was really cool. I'm a big fan of nostalgia and for really cool moments, so I think that was one of them. And and to your point, going back to your point that I never want to forget Christian coming out ringing on that parade was the greatest thing ever. He's the best. I mean, I'll say he's the best. Heel Unrestley because he's i mean rubbed Rains is in and out and he's he's still great. But to me, I vintage Christian cage Hill is just amazing. He can talk, he can work, he can perfect heater man, he just just put that. He just draws heat. Yeah, I mean for uh. He's obviously and we've I've talked about him on a million different occasions, but one of my favorites of all time. I say, incredibly underrated, like we said before, but he's definitely best as heel And I don't know who you have, they have their or in wwe really they'd be any better than what He just gets it and he doesn't. He doesn't break from what he's doing either, you know. And part of that's because he's so damn edstrom and believes what he's doing is the right thing to do on and off camera. But I think that he's the to forgive the pun. He's a total package because he walks it and talks it the same way. Like everything matches up this believable from start to finish. There's no he never phones it in, you know what I mean? He never phones it in, and he takes advantage of every opportunity as and he's another guy. He's such a probe that everyone around him gets lifted up into his you know, his orbit of what he does, you know. Yeah, so obviously Edge coming back out of retirement was so big. Yeah, and the way he went out was so you know, it was actually sad, let's just say it. He did have that moment though where he retired. Well. Christian, on the other hand, it's kind of like he's had a couple concussions and you just never heard from him again. So to me, when he came back for the Royal Rumble, as you remember, yeah, and then short I mean then you kind of wondered is he gonna be back? Then shortly thereafter he's with AW which to me was exciting because we're gonna get to TNA today. But what he brought to the table and the years he put into TNA were just absolutely incredible. And to me, to see him get some more time is great because he didn't even get a good bye. No, and for a career like that, not to even get a good bye. And it's a travesty to think that we may never see Jericho and Christian getting inducted into the ww offense. It's a travesty to think that because they both had that that career. But I think I mean, I think Christian Edge is a tag team is a possibility because we've seen them do that with people like like Booker t nWo guys that. Yeah, for some they do have a couple of timers. I mean, like I think Sean Waltman's even a couple of times, right, I think that's possible. But Christian as a single career, I think if you really match it up with other people they've inducted, he's still a Hall of Famer, ye, But yeah, you're right, Just I don't know if you'll let alone both of them. I don't know if you'll ever get that right. And that's but then again, he seems to be a pretty credible business guy and doesn't burn any bridges and in fact, you always hear the story back when he was in he came back to Do to B from P and A and Dixie Carter. They wanted to induct Ric Flair in the Hall of Fame in WWE, so they arranged that an agreement with Dixie Carter where she could pick who she wanted to come back to the show in exchange for who could be on the show from Dodo B in exchange for them being able to use Ric Flair, and I don't know if she could pick top level people like Undertaker Sina, but she chose Christian. I mean that just shows you the it he he seems to do the right things and not burn bridges along the way. Yeah, he's stand you know, he's a stand up he's a stand up cat. And we were and I'm pretty sure we're going to talk about it. If not tonight, we will talk about it as we go forward with TNA. But I believe some of Christian's best work was done in TNA. Oh yeah, And and we can talk about that as we go forward because the same thing has been said about Kurt Angle and a couple other superstars that their best work was done there. So but Christian is one of those guys. And I think it's how funny is it that we had Sting and Rick Flair in the ring and no disrespect to their best But what we we have more to talk about with Christian and so it's it's I go back. So I want to segue back to Adam Copelan. It was a big deal that he was there, but now everything else that's going on, that's kind of the the I don't want to say the thrill is gone. But it's kind of just another acquisition, you know what I mean, it's another top superstar, legendary guy. W now. But because it feels like they're trying to sorry to cut you off. It feels like they're trying to figure out how to handle him cautiously. Yeah, and that kind of and that was never the case with Christian on TNA or HIT when he debuts this let him lose. It doesn't seem to be like we got to really overthink about how we're going to book this guy. In fact, you just kind of let him do his thing. And I think that's why he's able to. I mean, if he's sliding under the radar and if people are realizing how great he is, that's kind of silly, but I think that's what kind of allows him to do what he does. You know. Yeah, But it's that thing of you bring in this legendary talent and within a month or so he's just another member, you know, on the roster. And it's unfortunate how these things play out, right, But you know, stings re tire, so that takes you know, that comes to the front burner flares, there comes to the front burner, Christian, Who's what we're talking about most here. You know, you see these you see these guys and girls that come in and then, don't get me wrong, we see the same thing in WWE. There's this big push for this talent. Then when they get there, there's so much other business to do. But that was my fear. If you remember when we talked about Edge leaving, was how long does the state smoking hot? And will will that fan base keep him hot? Christian's gonna be there and he's gonna be consistent, He's gonna you know, but I think he's one of those guys you have to have out there all the time to appreciate it. Yeah, exactly. Back to my point, you know, it feels like they're trying to handle them with kid gloves, which I mean, ww DO is the same thing. And they bring somebody in they don't want to somebody say and if you they don't want to make him look bad, but they don't want him to bury everybody. I mean, like there is a fine line. But I think that's different for how Christians handled with Edge. Yeah. Yeah, but that's allowed him to have some good opportunities, especially once he they weren't tag teaming. But I'm sure Adam is in kid, you know, has a good bit of control of what he's doing. And then oh yeah, it's well scouted out. So my my my view is from like a fan standpoint of hot cold, hot cold, hot cold? When when do I? When am I supposed to get behind it? Allah? And here's a bad comparison. I don't meet it this way. But Wharten he comes back, he does the same thing he did when he left. He airs When am I supposed to believe in this thing? You know? When am I supposed to get behind it? You always go back to word low bill, It always goes back to ward. Now I understand too. I definitely see a lot, and I think everybody does. But then again, it seems like there's almost like a dilemma on how do we handle this make We'll just say superstar like Adam Copeland, but yet still build our own guys appropriately, our original guys, or just trying to build people in general. That might be where AEW has struggled a little bit. They do have pillars of people that have been there and been significant. Yeah, but it's the developmental part. So you bring in the c and punks, which is great. You bring in Adam Copeland, which is great, you bring in the Sting, which is great, But it's also how do you develop your current guys as well? And that's that's something they're still navigating through as a young company. It appears, yeah, and and and one of their shows should be designed just for that. If you're gonna do it like the NXT, right, it's you and I talk about it's the Bettle Mement part of it. Yep, they have to make one of their shows, in my opinion, designed just for that. Yeah. Because and here's the example of why I say that. We saw that the one half of the Australian tag Team, that the kid who's not hurt, the tall kid, the good yeah, I forget his name, but he confronts Kenny, Omega's nemesis. She's up forget everybody's name, right, Don Kallas. So Hobbs steps in his face and that kid doesn't back down. Well, Hobbs right before that put Jericho in the hospital. Why isn't this kid afraid of him? Why? Those are the things I look at as when you're building these these these characters and these personalities and these and these superstars. There's nothing consistent. There's no I don't know if there's no. I'd like to think there's more thought put into it, but it just comes off. So who am I supposed to get behind? I know it's not about Obs, so she's everybody in the world should never get face to face with Hobbs after that Jericho think and and to me, that's what would keep Hobbs strong even when he's not working, you know. So that's that's where where I look at it, Like I said, and I always look at it from different through different classes because I want to watch the PROD for what it is, but then go, wait a minute, there's there's no consistency. And that's what that's always my fear, whether you're a veteran and legendary coming in or whether you're new and up and coming and coming in, it's just always that stop start, No, No, we'll start it again, We'll stop it again, because to me, that's a telltale sign up things aren't gonna go very far in that for that character, that person. Yeah, I'm sure there's some different and we don't know how involved all the wrestlers are in Ada, right, but you're trying to honor their creative ideas. Yeah, but yet you know, you still have to get back to the basics. So hey, aw's obviously then they're doing fine honestly. But uh yeah, So summarizing this topic here, I we said it last week. I'm glad that Steing gets these moments. Yes, uh, he's had some unofficial you know, retirement. They I mean made the comment he wouldn't wrestle again enter WCW made a comment he was hurt and couldn't wrestle again after buckle Baum. But I mean, this is actually a moment pristine. It's well deserved as one of the best characters ever in professional wrestling. Yeah, and well timed out to say, because we talked about it last week when he was making that announcement, it was very flat in the crowd, so very well thought out. Being in Philadelphia doing all these things, a true wrestling town Philly, and you know, having the Nature Boy out there and everything. It was a much better response, I think, a much more deserving response to everything that was going on. And I think they keep this up. It's really gonna keep people intrigued. And like I said, I hope there's more of this coming down the line. First thing is, as they continue to do this, there's a ton of there's a ton of men and women they could bring out through his career that would mean something to him and really really cool. So you can't understate also how incredible Flair and Sting moments have been. And like it's it's mentioned in the video we just shared in if you watch, go back and watch the episode that I might Flair an absolutely huge part of development of Sting. Yeah. Well, the story goes that Flair Flair was the one lobbying for Sting to become the NWA champion. Other people believed in in other people, you know, they didn't believe in Sting, and but Flair stayed with him, believed in him, you know. And let's not forget the things Flair's going. Hey, our first time out of the gate together went fifty five minutes. I don't care that he wasn't breathing heavy. I don't give fifty five minutes, dude, insane. And that's when you know where Sting coming out of He was down in world class and he'd been some other places, but he was nowhere near the territory he had into. And in nineteen eighty eight. Flair was the walking wrestling god. So go fifty five minutes with that man, and then wonder if you you know, I don't know if you wanted, did I do a good job? That did it? As long as Flair was happy, And you know, something clicked, because here we are thirty five years later and Flair says, yeah, I'll be by his side for the for the last leg of this thing. Really cool. Yeah, those guys really catered to live audience as far as performance went. Last thing. I'll say, if you're talking about the bloodline a lot, but you should be checking out Christian Cage, let me let me end it with that. I can't can't let that go. He's amazing. He's amazing. So man, the second topic on the title of this this is what we've posted out here live. Yeah, for those of you listening live, we appreciate it. It's uh and if you aren't, feel free to join us live. It's a fun interactive experience. Yeah, tell someone to jump in, tweet them to ex them. What do we is it? The people? Now? Where do you tweet them? Ae w bought a Senile Rick flick. Thank you Chad for that. One of the live people listening. Uh, definitely joke. And I think the thing Flair never wants to get out of that spotlight. Man, he lives for that. So I know there was a bunch of old guys like me that have been around and we're taking personal bets with themselves that Flair wouldn't have got to the ring without crying because Rick's a very emotional guy. Yeah, and that's just where his heart is. This is his life, this is what he does. This is the people being in front of the camera doing all these things. So you know, and that's the thing I say in a very lovingly way. It's like he made it all the way to the ring without breaking down and crying. But it's really cool and Chad, no matter what version of Flair we get, as long as we get to see him come down some aisle, some ramped on some TV. I think people should really acknowledge it and take advantage of it. And the beauty of YouTube is everyone can go back to that clash in eighty eight and watch that match and get it. And I think that's what will happen with this ae W fan base. They're gonna start looking at some of these men and women they have. Now I'm going setup but not there's there's some stuff here. Yeah, so ultimately major more people back to do w content. Yeah. But okay, so we'll go ahead and move on TNA Bound for Glory to Okay, not TNA Impact. We'll get to TNA Bound for Glory took place. I've only watched clips of it seem to be you know, I don't think there's like bad impact wrestling shows. I just think it's about damn hear impossible to find sometimes. But I mean with that, with that being said, it seems like from what I've watched that it was a great, great event. Obviously, anytimes Mickey James involved, I'm going to be I've watched that match. Just like I said, my favorite wrestler ever just kind of lines up with my youth too, right, I mean, her coming in and so always seeing her is great. And seems like the pay per view went mo well man. But they did make a big announcement during the pay per view. And I'm going to go ahead and we'll segue into this short clip. I'll show a preview of the clip that T and A released. I mean, they keep saying it when Impact released stadium, they'd be going back to TNA. So we'll show this, then we'll get to the discussion. Okay, I think we all know why we're here. I can still hear it. People want to pretend that it went away, but we're reminded of every day, all of you. You're my brothers and my sisters, and I feel it in my core. Professional wrestling is bleeding. There needs to be a change. This has got change, and to get there, we have to go back to where it all started. I look around, and I know that if we had everything that we wanted, then that means we didn't want or dream big enough. They thought it had been written, they thought that the book was closed. Let's rewrite those chimies, replace them with our own words, with our own story. Sleep is the cousin of death, and we've been slept on for the last time. We are the kings and queens of our own stories in this story. It's time for the next chapter. All I've ever wanted was to be here, a part of this, part of something bigger than any one person. Now I can't. I guess there's only one thing left to do. DNA wrestling say it's all about total NonStop action. These mights will inspire you. It's an evenings that revolves around history. This is TNA Wrestling, t NA great video package by the way. Yeah, they've always had a pretty underrated production value to their show. Uh for the resources they have, they in my opini my opinions, they've done an incredible job with production value on their product. This is another example. You know, you lady, you said it, and we've talked about this in the past. It's so and I think that's about the change. But it's so hard to find or get to get to that you almost have to wait for the YouTube versions to come out and and the things that people post because like I'll just say, like it just in the climate. If it's too hard to get to, people just don't go to it. But the talent that's there, the leadership that's there, the the the veterans that are there. This is a solid group and that's all you hear from this from this company. So you know, naturally there's been a lot of controversy right this week, and oh well, the Kiss of Death, I think Jared said, that's the kiss of death bringing back you know that brand Dead in the water. You know, before it starts and then other people are going, Wow, I'm really excited to see what's what's gonna happen. My thing is now, I want to see what they're gonna do to bring more eyes to the product because TNA was very easy to get hold of. You knew where you could go every week for TNA and to do those things, and it's been a little difficult, you know, with TV deals and things like that. I'm also very interest to see what they bring back from the the past of TNA. Knowing how God not the ring because nobody wants to work in that ring. Well that's not I think Scott the Moore came out and said there will be no six sided ring, right, It's gonna be a professional wrestling ring and things like that. But I'm very interested to see if if AEW continues their relationship with TNA like they had an impact because for a while we saw crossovers and things like that. So you see the Samoa Joe's on that clip they showed and and sting and these things, you know, So I'm excited for them. I don't think it was a bad idea. I think there's more buzz around the old Impact now TNA again, then there's been in quite a while, and I think it's more mainstream. I one thing about TNA, and it's the case with AW as well. Built they did historically, I mean not maybe recently, but historically they did really well. Internationally speaking, Yes, AW does as well. I mean, let's be honest, the uk W is way bigger in comparison just by race sheet. I mean, obviously it's more people, but I'm just saying here, but it's it's it's significant there and TNA was as well internationally speaking, and when you read a lot of things online, it's indicating that they want to get back into tapping into that for one, and that brand still has a credible image, you know, globally boy internationally. Obviously, losing Spike was the kiss of death, and they booked their way into it. They made some bad business decisions, but I mean, all in all, that company has been significant for professional wrestling. It was really the only alternative from WWWF after WCW or just AWF, and it lived to it in the sense of how it in the number of significant talent it developed. You see these guys all over the place. Now. It was big for Kurt angle. Obviously that's a little bit different. I don't think he had much more time left the way he was going to WWE. It wasn't gonna last. So it's a second opportunity for him. It's an opportunity for Steeing that there's a good chance he may not have done anything ever again if he hadn't got involved with that. And you talk about people like Somemoa, there's just so many people that use that austin Aires, you know, yep. And I'm fortunate enough to get to know a few of these TNA people and like Austin Areas is maybe controversially he's a great dude, But this gave those kind of people a platform. Man, the people that were coming out of things like Ring of Honor that maybe even aj Styles man he had a wwwf tryout man. Yeah yeah, passed on him. Yeah, passed on him, which okay, But these guys are able to go there and become a part of something significant, and throughout the years it really felt like they had this US against the world mentality as far as what they were accomplishing with what resources they had. I think it was a significant part and it gave a I mean they got a little over the top, and you brought in Hogan and Bischoff, but it was still TV that I watched. But it's been a breeding ground of some guys that when there just wasn't any room in WWE. Just to be completely honest, it did allow these people that were more than deserving an opportunity to have a career. And it makes some money. But so now let's excuse me. Now, let's look and this is right, this is where my mind goes because we talked about how internationally successful it was. Do you think with the talent that's there now? And it's not a knock, but you got to remember the talent that was in TNA internationally drew the people in. Who are your now I want to take out And I'm gonna make this a terrible, a terrible discussion because I'm gonna take Bully Ray out of it. I'm gonna take Mickey James out of it. I'm gonna take I'll tell you what, that's the only two I'm gonna take out of it. Who are your international draws on TNA right now? That when they go somewhere that they don't have to bring in TNA stars from the past. You see what I'm saying, because yeah, and the way I look at it is aj Styles, Samoa Joe Cats like that. When they were in TNA, they were young, they were making a name for themselves, but they were young. They still grew up there though, Right. But now you're taking Eddie Edwards and and and these guys that have been in the business now for fifteen twenty years coming on or whatever? Are they the draw Who who's gonna be the And I'm not saying it can't happen. I'm asking as a fan and that someone who wants to see how it progresses, how they're gonna attack that attack that thing is Trinity. The one that's gonna draw them in is Eric Young, who's a veteran of this game. Gonna draw them in. And so that's what I'm very curious to see how it's gonna happen. Are we gonna see that that thing about wrestling that people feel like, Okay, now we're doing this, but we've got to bring these people in to make them better. That's a good locker room, that's a that's a hell of a talent pool in former Impact now TNA, and I and I'm very curious because I've been around this business long enough to know that now that this happens, do they feel like they need the extra push of people to legitimize this or are they gonna stand with the men and women that have been there and then standing there doing this thing and run it a great point. And you know, when I I obviously think of names like Chris sab and Alex Shell. There's Alex Shelly, Frankie, cause they're Frankie. Come on, you know, I think of people that are great. But you're right. I mean, I see your point. Like, as far as huge drawing power, who do they have? The answer is not necessarily anybody. They got to rely. First of all, I think their operating costs are pretty damn low. Yeah, so I think that under that department, Uh, they over succeed for what they're doing. Probably just to be completely honest, but yeah, you're right, man, huge drawl. I'm not a hut of percent of sure, you know, because you don't have Ken Anderson, who's he's a good dude. He was it was really big for him, bullier a aj styles and coming back then they did a really good job of doing kind of what AE w's doing? They had, uh, they like Rhino, they had Scott Steiner. Who else they have? Have? They had the Hearty's and stuff. Yeah, I don't know who they're gonna grab to. Dude, to answer your question, I don't. I don't know. But so that's my question. You know, are they gonna are they gonna dig deep and try to do the nostalgia thing? Are they going? This is? This is my team and this is who I'm running with, you know? And then I'm really curious, like, here's my side note. If all this was happening, here's one of the guys that's he's a free agent now, Sammy Callahan, with all of this going on, Why would he leave the company? Or was this not planned out before? Or is this you know, one of those things. So you take a name like Sandy Callahan who is recognized, but now he's that So I wonder, I wonder what what the what the concept's gonna be and the and how the leadership goes about it. But I'm excited for them, and I'm excited that they did it with TNA. I think it's a good I don't think I know it was a good brand. It doesn't hurt anything with what they do. It doesn't hurt them whatsoever. So I'm excited to think that they get back on a more nationally recognized, you know, program and and things like that, and I know they have the talent to do it. I'm just curious to see how they're gonna go about drawing drawing that audience, making that bigger audience, a wider audience. And I'm I'm very curious to see if they still have that relationship with AW. That's a great point, but let's go back to the big picture here. They eventually had to secure a better television deal. Yeah, that's gonna be ultimately, That's that's really what it comes down to to sustain any kind of motion, you know, forward motion and and and keep building it. That's that's ultimately what it comes down to. But I'll say it again, been a big t and a fan. I thought they were a great alternative to WW when it got a little just stale. Honestly, uh, I thought they were doing some great thing. So I'm always on board of supporting them. And hey, more more jobs is always a good thing, or steady jobs for the industry is a good thing. Keep keep it going. Before we segue out of this completely, let's kind of stay on topic here. And I don't know this in detail, and I'm not sure anybody does, but Billy Corgan did announce that WA has reached some sort of TV agreement with TV deal with c W. Have you have you heard this? Yes, I've heard. I've heard the snippets, and I kind of, like I said, I try to kind of listen to the interviews after I missed them. I'm like a lot of people, I'm a big Billy Corgan fan. I've never met A but I appreciate his his insight into the business. One he's a fan, you know what I mean. And he's kept this thing going and I feel like he's done it the right way. He's done the business justice, and I was excited for to say that he hear that there's more coming, that he's branching out, and I think nw A is that brand when it comes to pro wrestling that stands the test of time. So I'm really excited to see what he does. And there's a resurgence of the business right now and people are coming out of the woodwork and starting to announce these deals because let's face it, whether it was a show like Heels or or anything else that brought it back to the mainstream. Wrestling's on fire right now. Billy Corgan's a big reason for that. Yeah. Yeah, I think he's done some great stuff and I'm glad that because once you get away from the companies we're talking about, you really have limited options on the indis now. And what he's been able to do is recapture that. And I know that's that's a goal of what he's got to continue to try to recapture territory if he said that, but I think ultimately and if you can get a live aspect involved with this, and we said this week after week, there's still a lot of value in live entertainment, Yes, And I think that's why you're seeing some of these TV deals that we're seeing, because there's a value in live entertainment. Now. Will TNA ORWA will they be live? You know, I don't know, but I think there's and obviously there's still a lot of money in that, and that's why TV, that's why broadcast companies are willing to pay money and reach deals with professional wrestling. Right now. It is a hot product. But I mean, man, it's it's the live entertainment's valuable. Agreed, one hundred percent agree. And I was looking at you know, everything in wrestling is timing, right yep. Tyrus announced his retirement a month later. Billy's announcing big plans for you know, and w W A. You go, how do we keep miss and missing the boat on these things? But I'm I'm excited. And and the thing is, like you listened to Billy Corgan when he's doing his interviews, you can you can hear the excitement, like he he has a plan. He's not a guy who's willy nilly. I mean, he's a successful rock star. He's navigated that that area of entertainment, so he has skin in the game, you know, and he has knowledge and of these things. So he's and he and it and from what I understand and what I see in here, he's very business savvy. So I'm excited for the direction of the industry. I'm really excited across the board that including a E W now T n A and and n W A and then actually what w W continues to do and n x T I don't view NXT's and w W view NXT is a whole other animal. So I'm excited, but I'm I'm excited for Billy Corgan and and the guys that have run impact for all these years now that get to say, hey, we're coming back with it. We're gonna you know, it's gonna be bigger and better than ever. And I agree with you, that was a great promo from like to me, there's they're young. There's still the young stars, right, but those are all veterans that were in that circle. Yep, you know, talking and getting ready for it. So I'm I'm excited for them. I'm more excited for you and I because it's gonna give us a ton of subjects and topics to talk about and and you know, because what I think with you and I do best is we go we started here and we wind up over here and we come back to it. But I love it because they're all taking us on a ride. Yeah yeah, I mean we're talking about it. So that's the first step to do it. Something night you may just it's you do wonder how much more can come out of it, like how much professional wrestling can be on television. But I mean they're just financially all these companies are at completely different spots. So these television deals are significant for all of them, but they're just significant on different levels, but nevertheless significant. I mean, I think, when was the last time you're you're I say this, you're more of a wrestling historian than I am. You we get going and you remind me and then it takes me to that point, but you're you're more of a wrestling story. When was the last time we've had so many companies at one time be be hot or be moving like in an upward direction? When was the last time for a long time it was WWE, and then T and A, what WCWECWWWE right for the longest time, and then that broke down and then it was WCWWWE that should Before that, it was NW eight, and it was WWF, and then it was you know, there's always been one or two. Yeah, when was the last time we've had all these companies coming out of the I say out of the gate so strong at the same time, Yeah, it's certainly you'd have to go and even back in the day when you know, I came in on the very tail end of tape trading. Basically by then, you know, by the time I really got into wrestling, it was a little bit more mainstream on television. But yeah, no, I see your point, and I think back then you can make an argument, but as far as being able to consume the content easily, which you couldn't back right, Yeah, I mean obviously then it was huge, but you know, WCWW just two major ones going at it. Then you didn't really hear about anything else. And I say, the only thing they would and it's not even close to right now, but would be when T and A started seeing a little bit of success and you also had Ring of Honors seeing a little bit of success. That's really the only time I could think of. Obviously, aw doow this has been two but yeah, man, I'm with you. I'd think twenty. I don't know. Seventeen years ago, six eighteen years ago, you had a couple more options, but it was different than it was like you had the powerhouse. Then you had these smaller must see ones you knew weren't going to completely get it off. But now it seems like you have it where just a potential to growth, significant growth than more and more than two of them. Yeah, if done right, and you know, if push comes to show you say, there's still only one powerhouse, but we're not looking at it that way. Now we're looking at it is look at all the like you struggle for. Now you have to pick a schedule. Now, now I'm probably gonna have to do something I've never done in thirty five plus years, is I've never recorded wrestling. So I did miss it. You know, we talked about a pay per viewer, we clicked to this or something. But there's so much content now that you listen, I don't have to if I miss it, and I don't say it like just brush it up. But if I miss it, I can catch pieces. But now I'm I find myself in a place where I want to see what everybody's doing all the time. And I'm very interested because now here comes to somebody's going here, and someone's going here, and someone's gonna do this, and someone's gonna do that. And that's the part, like I got goosebump. That's the part about wrestling that now you're making me, You're making me watch your product instead of me feeling like, all right, let me see what they're doing tonight, Like I want to know what everybody's doing now and that's a really cool feeling to have after I feel like one or two clicks on the TV. I yeah. And it's always funny because people are like, did you watch this? Did you watch that? And and and people that aren't like really into it look at me like I'm crazy when I say believe it or not, I actually read about it just as much as I watch about it. Yeah. Yeah, that doesn't make any sense to somebody who's not a fan when I say that statement. But it's the case. It's still consuming content. I will say, though, I think we got to be careful and not as we see these television deals come up and stuff, and not try to compare with what successes. Yes, I don't know if aw's turned to profit per se. Maybe they have. Maybe they have, they don't have to tell us. We won't know. But I think for the TNA and for NWA, you got to remember where like I just said earlier, the production costs are managed very low. Yeah, well, what will be successful TV viewership will not even be comparable to what we try to do with AWN, not not even not even comparable, because you got to think right now, the platform impact is not point in more than a couple hundred thousand at any point in time. Really, MWA can't. So if they're able to do that even that's significant for them. If TNA is able to grow just a little bit more, that's significant for them. But I think it all depends on how much your operating costs are, and that that will be significant. You can still have growth, it'll just be you can't compare it. Man, We gotta be careful and that, and I hope, I know we won't. We'll do our best not to compare it, but I hope everybody's paying attention and talking about these things starts watching it with those eyes like I don't want to compare TNA to the the WW what I'll compare the XFL to the NFL. I mean you can, but I mean it wouldn't be really, But you know, it's two different products. Yeah, it's the same sport, but it's two different products. And I think as long as we look at it honestly from where it is and what it is. Because no one ever complained about r O H. They watched it because that was their thing and they loved it, and then they could go watch the other brands and all these other things. And I hope that's what we get to again now and everybody does the start right away with all they'll ever make because of the TV and this and that. Don't compare them. Just just enjoy them and let them get going and then see where, you know, see where it takes us. Okay, Yeah, it's a great discussion. Let's segue into the listener interaction. Qu's part of this little bit here. Okay, so what our hell wants to know? If you had seen CJ. Perry Lana as formerly known as Yes comment it wanted to be the Paul Hayman of female managers. I think that's a bold statement. Yeah, I think it's a bold statement. Here's the thing about uh, CJ. She's a bold personality. She's one and I say this with all the respects. She's no dummy. I know she plays a certain character and all these things, and you know the Russian and this and that and the other thing. By the way, one hundred percent Russian. But that's a bold statement. And I don't believe she would make that statement unless she believes that she can get there and that there's an opportunity for her to become that person. So I'm glad to see. I'm not really sure how I feel about the interaction with her and Miro right now. To me, it's still strange. And if I was if I had the pencil, I wouldn't have given actually Andretti that much time with Miro. It didn't help Miro, and I don't think it helped actually Andretti and I think it could have been more subject to bringing CJ up to Miro's level, you know what I mean, if that makes sense. But I'm very interested to see what she does, and as long as it's done the right way, she will not become just a flash in the pan or you know, an act. But that's a bold statement to say she wants to be the female pool Aiment. Yeah, I think. And the way they brought her in immediately tied to Miro kind of, but I mean they didn't go full into it, but that's what she was introduced to as. And this this run initially right when she got me in, So I think you got it. Yeah, hard to get past that and that's the person you're connected with, but certainly could be done right if planned accordingly. Yeah, I gotta be easy though, just because of the automatic connection. Yeah, if they don't rush it and it's done the right way, I think it'll be very really good. Okay, So Vinc wick Man's Mustache wants to know your comments on Booker D on his podcast saying man event Mafia was a better faction by far than the Bloodline. I will say this to Vincemickman's Mustache. I did listen to this actually, and I think what Booker T was saying was it had the potential to be at that level. And I think what he's saying is just because of the like I just said, the potential, you got to think it had stinging there what it had Kevin Nashing, there had that Nash Steiner and Timo Joe, and it had the survivor person. Who the hell is that anyway? But I think what he's saying is it had the potential to be, but I mean it wasn't maybe done the best way, and I didn't have the stage obviously that we just talked about this the thing. So I think the main emit Mafia was impacts Tena's version of what's now the Bloodline. And I think if you but look at the timeframe too, now until how long ago was the you know the mafia. Oh wow, two thousand and eight. Yeah yeah, Kurt Angle obviously, yeah yeah, so fifteen years ago. So the evolution of the business too, So I agree. I don't think Booker's statement was weird better than in TNA. They were the bloodline. All the story was around them, and they were involved in all that stuff. But I didn't make it two years though. What's that The run didn't go two years even right, They didn't hang with it like so they didn't invest into it. I would say if Booker said we were better, then if his exact words were we were better then and I didn't hear it, so I think maybe uh Bench's mustache took it out of context, and he's not only one. It's all over the place. But I can see the comparison. I don't mind the comparison of the two, but then I look at the timeframe of each one and then back to your point, the production of it, the the that being able to make this story go. TNA had one show to do it on. WWE East has two shows and three if they wanted to bring it to XT when it started, so they had the platform that's bigger to do all these things. Yeah, I don't. I don't see the two being compared ever in history. I understand the comparison of one group to the other, but I don't. I don't see the main event Mafia ever being close to the blookin and and just like all professional wrestling, TNA was a major victim of rushing through. Yes, thanks, which is a really big flaw of TNA, But the things they did in Rush were successful. You got to think about the build of aj styles is one where I think of, right off the top of my head, this was not a He's always been a mainstain player on mainstin player on TNA. But they didn't just I mean, it was a build over time is his character developed and stuff. It wasn't rush. And I think they had oh who is the one I'm losing the name? I think Mad Morgan. They did a pretty decent job of no mention it, but they had some or they was Crimson was that his name and rushed him pretty hard and boom boom flash he gets washed in the pan. It's hard for him to maintain that. And I think did there you know they did? They just kind of rushed things. Hell, they even try to go up against Monday Night, which is crazy. Uh that's my opinion on that. But yeah, I don't think. I don't think he was directly comparing it. I was just I took it when I listened to it as the potential piece of it. And he's right. Uh, if you just want to compare the faction itself, it has the potential. If you want to compare the platform, not possible. The star power in the Mafia was is was way bigger than how the blood Line started out. Okay, all elite, the elite cronies I love that popped up at an nowhere on us. They wants to know, and I have a video to I'm gonna relate to this and play here in a second, but they want to know if Edge Adam Copeland has heat in aw. So to segue into this, I shared a video. I'm gonna share video with our good friends at the Restland Observer. Okay, actually by not good friends that have me blocked, but I still subscribe to their stuff. So Brian Alvarez did discuss this. We'll go ahead and play this all right. Ricky says, don't look at me like that with those bug eyes. Sir Adam says, it's your stupid silk slacks, dumb ass, and I was like what and then Ricky says, sadly, you didn't take style from the other place. And then Adam says, and you took it from the rock. Good job, And there's like this weird, awkward pause. It was very awkward, and then Adam says, can't help that. You're a vanilla midget version of that, but shut your mouth and talk to him instead of me. Kid, know your role. I was like, whoa, what's going on here? And then Ricky says, wow, that really said me over the edge. I asked around. I didn't hear anything about there being any problem. Okay, doesn't mean there's not I agree with them. I don't think there's much there, but I guess we can. We gotta have something to talk about in the rest journalist. And I think that's just it. It gives people. So then it goes back to my original thing of are we watching it to appreciate it or are we watching it to try to read between the lines and everything that happens. Yeah, that's the issue I think with AEW from one I understand is they get carte blanche to say what they want and maybe they have bullet points, but there's no red flags for just saying what comes out of your mouth. So I think sometimes you're gonna get that war of words and it gets a little sketchy. But I think people look more into the ooh, Adam's got heat, Oh Ricky Starks to oh they're you know, they're fighting, and uh, there can't be any kumbaya, can't be just a promo segment of two guys stolen barbs and let's move on. Everybody's gonna make a bigger deal out of it because, let's face it, you're ready. It gives us something to talk about. I don't I don't. I don't think there's anything that holds water there. So it kind of reminds me of like when you bring in like the Rock and you would talk any other promo John Cena, and I don't think there was ever any real heat, but certainly not afraid to let loose. And that's the entire environment with AW. Uh they've got a platform where they can do that kind of stuff and then ww it's like you got to really be somebody to get off and start doing Yeah, but look, look what the so what has AW learned in the past two years when they let people come out with live mics and say what they want, be a punk and Adam Page and all these you know, all these things that go on. Is that really the road you want to keep going down for clickbait and then to have internal you know, ISSU choose? So I would I would say, walk walk softly with that kind of thing and maybe not let everybody have free rate to say and do what they want, because whether we're professionals or not, someone's gonna throw something out there that hits someone the wrong way, and there's gonna be an issue, either in front of people or beyond the Yeah, you're right, I think it's almost been it's obviously been a bad day, but they're having these instances of probably what's got the most talk about them and a lot of and a lot of senses. They've obviously had really good matches and I think the heck they have more five star matches in their four year existence, and right is fifty but Dave Melt ratings. But I think it's kind of like you have this environment and I think you have your diehards that will watch it every week no matter what. But I think that other people popping in and out are because of things like this, a little bit turned off, turned off, maybe turned on temporarily, I mean, maybe both. But they oh, their main stays that are die hard, They're gonna watch it no matter what. I think they attract a few people by just some of the these kind of storylines. But then the thing is, there's no payoff to these so far, there's no there's been no payoff to these storylines. So after a while, do I stop buying into the ooh this is a shoot brother, and oh they're really there's really heat and guy, it's just another one of these things that they don't follow through off. So I'm I'm never been a fan of oh there's heat but this guy and heat with this guy until you hear it from those people directly, I think everything you know wrestling's real in life is at work. So I yeah, I wait till I know it before I say it. Okay, Bob Orton's cast Bill and Jeff, do you think seeing Punk is working the Wrestling Deserver over and he's gonna end up being in as a survivor series. So what they're referring to here is obviously the rest of Observer has been at their head of their headlines. The top of their headlines has been that it's not gonna happen right, And what Bob Orton's cast is asking is is he work on I think, going back to our initial commerce how we started this episode, I was gonna say that there's I can't think of another time when every company has top clickbait. Punk is relevant no matter where he is or where he Hey he was in Orlando, Hey he was in Texas, he was an Impact tabing, say, hey he was at this, he was at that. So stings retiring and we're still talking about Punk, TNA's we're still talking about Punk all these things. But what people and I don't know if we've talked about this before, but here I'll give you a little bit of behind the curtain of what I know. In order to keep the Internet people, Uncle Dave and everybody else happy, WWE releases a certain amount of stories that they allow them to tell. This gives them their clickbait and things to talk about. In return, these sites don't talk negatively about things that happen in the company. So there's a tit for tat. We'll give you certain things to talk about and get your headlines and do these things and run your shows, and in return, you don't report about the issues that are backstage or heat or all these things that are gonna come out, and let us handle that first, you know, internally. So I think, is it possible, Hell, yes, it's possible. Is it possible for Punk even to show up for one night, Yes, they can strike a deal for one night. And is it possible that Punk's just keeping himself relevant, Yes, it's very possible. Is it possible Punk could be a DNA, Yes, it's possible. But the guy is a genius at keeping himself relevant. You're right, we could see another He's also headstrong enough that if he didn't want to wrestle again, he wouldn't. But I do think a bit of him, and I certainly hope that he does get another moment to round things off somewhere sometime down the line. Doesn't have to be Survivor series, No, would it be. He's talking off the build up round and all that. Would it be probably a little bit hotter? Yeah, But I think, you know it's I hope he does get another run. It doesn't have to It can maybe be a month, a one pay per view, maybe even one night like you said, But I hope somewhere down the line there's a lot of people saying that he might have to earn that trust again with you as long as and I know you're such you're a big fan of Punk and what he's done and what he's still capable of doing. As am I I hope like you that when we see Punk, no matter where we see him, that even if it's a short run, he goes out of the high note, hope it's something special. So there's not so there's not this crappy contra verse around everything and it's all this you know, schoolyard crap, and it's just a guy that people have appreciated for so long. Make a run, make amends with some people, even if it's just to save face in front of the fans. But I'm like you, I hope he gets one more positive thing going because, like I said, he doesn't have to wrestle. Yeah, I mean, he's got enough irons in the fire to do his things. Very creative, he's very intelligent. He's walked away before and it stayed off the radar. If he wants to say off the radar he will. I don't know seeing Punk personally. The only experience with him is at a live show. Once he my college roommate was booing him and he told him he was a vagina. So that's why I only face to face interaction with Cmpunk Gaver. He looked at me. I don't know if he thought I was saying it. I wasn't saying it, but it nevertheless, it was great. But yeah, I think if he didn't want to do it, he wouldn't. He's proven that he could just disappear and care less, right, But you're right, maybe a little bit of him wants that, and I hope it's the right time and it's done right. And honestly, just going back when he left and I I sound like a broken record when he left Ring of Honor after the you know, yes, Summer of Punk, Smojoe, all this great stuff, and when he left Ring of Water, a lot of concern on he would ever be utilized, right and reason it took years for him to work his way up through that w system. Yeah, well Paul Hammond certainly probably is a big part of that. And then the rest is now it's him, it's his creativity. It's what he's capable of. He just needed a little bit of a window, a little bit of an opportunity to prove himself. So I think he always has that little bit of a chip on his shoulder, and I think we could see what more good thing out of him. It does have to be anything crazy either. Everybody acts like we got to have something super crazy. We don't. I just think the fans deserve the fans deserve to see see him Punk the character leave on a high note. Yep, that's what you know, as much as we's as people or performers want to leave on a high note. I think the fans deserve it just for their loyalty to him, you know. I think that would be the best conversation to have about Punk is like, Okay, son of a gun, this is this is the way he should have went. If Now, if he's done, he's done, and whatever. But you know, like I said, never say never. And if there's money to be made, companies are gonna, you know, make sure they do it the right way. And but I'm with you. I hope that if and when he comes back it's on a high note. It's in the positive. What segue towards the end of the episode here and do our on this week in pro wrestling, yes history. So today we'll see if we get taken off YouTube or not. Once we do this, I'm curious, but I'm going to share some videos as we do this. I want to start off with Monday. So is the twenty third, and we're not going to share first here. So WCW presented Halloween Havoc from Detroit, Michigan, and the main event was a career versus career still cage match for the WCW World Heavyweight Championship. It was between Halcoga and Rick Flair and uh mister T was obviously involved in Then in vintage w what when did exact when was exact time you started WCW. I started WCW ninety five. It was after this, as I recall, I thought it was yeah, but is vintage WCW fashion. There's a million things going on at once. So I will share this moment here and exact time. He's kind of have a lot free, he's kinda have to awake k the jumping. Just what is going on here? There? I'm the tacking again had professional wrestling. He dropped the he's got hit away chipping flash career someto in how underrated. Before we had Jeff Hardy jumping off the cage, damn it, we had Sherry. What a leap of faith there. That was incredible. And then she takes the double clothes line with him and actually I couldn't get it all in there, but she took a couple tosses to one off the top rope. Yeah, I mean she took several bumps in that. Couldn't fit it all into a minute, because that's always the goal. So yeah, those those posts are awesome. Obviously, Rick Flair didn't stay retired and one of many times they had retirement matches or loser leave down and it was a hokey time in w c W. It was just so many and I always share these and people always tear it up on social media, the number of things going on, the man in the mask stinging, Jimmy Hart, Sherry, mister t But it was a that was the that was the that was the soup at the at that time, everything was like that in w CW. So when people watched that that when you post it now and wrestling fans now are watching on what the what the blue hell is that? But back then it was hot as hell. It was, it was unbelievable. But you still even you know now when you look at it and go to your point, there's so much going on. Therews so much. It just took away from what this you know, what was the end game here? You know, So wrestling wasn't quite at that huge peak yet aime uh two three years later. But yeah, it's just they crammed so much into and these are Rick Flayer fifty five minute matches either, No, these are twenty minute segments. Intros included, ye hopped with all of this going on. Yep, there's always so much of that, and it was so and even it is a got huge nWo and all that anything hogets involved in in particular, had so many components. There was a there was always a dozen guys involved in the in the segment, no matter what it was, and so people got so upset, Oh it's freaking four segments. It's forty minutes, but the wrestling was only three minutes of a twenty five minute segment. But there was always and and it kind of stayed that way for a little bit in WGW, especially when I got there, there was there was a couple hundred guys behind the curve because there was always so many people involved in everything that was going on. Everything was a run in. Everything was you know, a Schmans. But that was what I saw when you post it, because I told you I watched them all when you post it and just brings it back to her time looking at it and go, man, look at it now. That was hokeys. Help. It was so much. Sherry Martel was awesome. You know. I watched that and I just heard leaping off that cage man just fearless, taking the bumps and always just such a team player. I mean, I've never met her personally, but man, she was super super special. She was a great lady. I enjoyed my time with her. I learned a lot from her, and she was she was all about the product. Man. She she was all in whatever she her position was. And that she was all in, maybe she'll be all elite. I'm just kidding. Uh Okay, let's go at October twenty fourth. Here another thing. This is one of my favorite matches. Actually, nineteen ninety three WW Halloween avoct took place New Orleans, Louisiana. The May event Saal Vader if he cacked this jack in a Texas death match, remember this, Yes, all right, okay, we'll go into a minute of it here. Remember pinballs do not count. I want two to three. Does not camp in winning or losing a match. He's fighting, he's not. He's heading w C war World CHOPI bottom rupe. He wouldn't let Fantosu plays. Somebody's got to make an attempt to win this pretty soon. Oh got a living down. I guess the only positive thing out of it is they were both pretty ugly to begin with. There's the table, the spot who tries a sunset flop band so it makes packers jacket continue? They may stop this thing? What does Race stuck his hand? He's stung him with it. Vader's up at ten, the fats are Vader ruse to his feet first. Here is your hitter. Listen, here's the day. That's probably the hardest McK foley's ever hit anybody in his life. He was way clus you. There was only one way to work with Leon, and he did not mind getting it back the way he gave it. But that's the hardest hitting you will ever see Cactus Jack, dude, love mcfoley, take any character that's the hardest hitting you'll ever see him. Was literally going, okay, this is this is a legitimate fight. And you saw that stuff just from the clip we watched and get over the head. It was a camera. I want everybody to go back and watch the whole match. Oh yeah, and that would never fly today. That match would never fly today. No, as I do this every day. I actually watched the whole match and I edit it so I really get an appreciation for it. And you know, Bill, how hard it is to find just it's got to be a minute. Yeah, that's my rule. And then what minute? Now hard it is? Yeah? And I got to throw in the commentary too, right, like Jesse Venturrea is saying, they're both you know, ugly. I try to throw in a lot of that stuff. It's so hard to capture that, Like, what do I pick from a minute? It's like an art form, right, Like I have to take a minute and tell a story with these and paint the picture of what happened. And it's cool, but I just like there a minute captured at all? Was not easy to do. But just wailing on each other man. What a fight? What a fight. But that's the thing that that that's the thing that Leon did great was fight. I mean, you go back and and you'll post it when the time is right. When they knocked his eye out in Japan, right, he had to put his eye back yet, but he he he took it as well as he gave it. But those but those matches then meant more those of how great Cactus Jack mcfoley was. Oh yeah, yeah, how he not appreciated during that time. Oh my gosh, he's amazing. Just throw him in there with the champion and non title match by the way, but yeah, it's uh. I remember when Vader challenged mister Feenie and blow me to the world to it at Texas Death Match. So my mile went to that match anyway. So let's move a lot to the twenty fifth bill. You were there for this. This is nineteen ninety eight. WCW's annual Halloween Havoc Review was held in the MGM Grand gardener Aina in Las Vegas. Due to complications with the runtime, actually it was three and a half hours instead of the three they were allowed. It A lot of the stations showing the pay per view cut the show off before it ended. Many the main event wasn't even seen by fans at home because of this, The main event was replayed the next night on Monday on Nitro Monet Nitro and it had a record seven point seven eight million viewers, which was the most of any wrestling match on cable up to that time. They did have to refront quite a bit of money and the match that was missed was Bill Goldberg and I'll just say it, in my opinion, to my opinion, his best match he's ever had when he beat Damon DAW's Page to retain the championship. And I've got it, Bill, I've got it. Let's see it. Ddp up first, no sense to the crowd for the diamond cutter. Get it, get it. You know he tried to get him up with the jack camera, but he's got only one arm to do it with. It's amazing, amazing, don't even do it arms call fus time. He hasn't been able to that I know of. I'm gonna try again, curious little search of entergy. He's stucking it up. Page got to that same Page's gonna try Superlax forget about him, Go go Bucks got him up, God having it down? What two fifth Doper Tiff Doper. That's why he is undefeated and that's why he is one hundred and fifty five at all. Would you agree with my statement Bill Goldberg's best match ever? Yes, And here's why. Because Page was in it, because Paige was invested in Bill Goldberg the person and his character, and of all the people and again it's not a shot, but all the people Bill worked with, from Hogan and everybody on down, Bill was under I think I was the only one his first match where he had no pressure, because you can't screw up a debut, right unless you really really between the two guys, we really would have screwed it up, so there was no pressure. But in that one with Dallas, Dallas was invested in the story. It elevated Dallas who was already at the top. But I think his his what's the word I want to use, his demeanor towards the whole thing, and how Dallas approached the match is what helped make that one of Bill's best matches ever, because you know his opponent was invested in the same thing he was in. Don't forget the time that we're talking about. There was a lot of a lot of egos, a lot of this, Okay, you know you're gonna put the guy over, but it doesn't have to be the greatest thing in the world. And Dallas that wasn't who you know pages, His thing was every match he was in was gonna be you know, he's gonna try and make the best match you ever had. But I hardly agree that that was Bill's probably Bill's best match ever. I think they did a great job with the storytelling of the two history of those guys because of course DDP instrumental in bringing in Bill Goldberg. Are wrestling that WCW and I think with Bill Goldberg, in my opinion, don't know Bill Goldberg, you do or you interact with him. I have it he seemed to and his matches that weren't as great. He may not have had the best skill in the world, but entertaining entertainment aspect through the roof, but it seemed as if almost he didn't have trust in people, and this particular match not the case right completely. Let you went with whatever DDP was doing. This was an interesting edit because I really only needed the last two minutes of the match. This was about eleven minute total twelve minute total segment and probably about eight or nine minutes of wrestling where they did do some chain wrestling, right, They did do some counters, reverses, they did some stuff where they fell outside of the ring. A well booked Bill Goldberg match. But to me what stood out is just and I only had to use the last two minutes to tell this story, but watching the whole thing, which you can't show, there was the trust that you could tell Bill Goldberg had in DDP. Well, that was my point, like knowing that Dallas was not gonna mislead him yep, or take advantage of him in any way. That Dallas's job was just like everybody else's job, is to get him over, and he did that in the right way. And I think to your point, there's a trust there because Dallas was invested in Bill's a person before the character in Dallas was instrumental in bringing Bill into the business. So I wholeheardly agree Bill he wasn't on guard the whole time or was it like even if he was just concerned about how he would look her yea, And I think that's what it was. A lot of the time. Yeah, and I agree with that, and I see it. I saw it then, I see it now. But he I think it was just that trusting of Dallas. Is not that not that guy. And and if you know Dallas, Dallas will look you right down and go, bro, I'm not here to screw you. Bro, We're gonna kill it. Trust me. It's different from Bill's match with you, that first match we talk about, yeah, because it wasn't really expected to go over such a and be so huge, right. It wasn't like it was Bill Goldberg's premiere basically, but there weren't insane huge expectations put on him because the match there was afterwards. But with this match, he had to be with somebody and he needed a moment like that, and they were able to capture that. I think when he reversed as souper x, well, he almost lost him. If he would have lost it, it'd be a different story right now. Yeah, But dude, they stayed the course and he dropped that jack hammer on him and he that's just a lot of strength and balanced by both of them to reverse that, and he almost went but he kept it. And knowing Dallas the way I do, if there was a point where he would have lost them. Dallas had a plan B, C, and D make it to make it work. And let's not forget that he had two of the best commentators in the world telling the story. You know. So I think that's one of those matches where you'd get the same match if he turned the volume down without the commentating, and then wow, really pick it up when you hear them telling the story with you. Yep. So yeah, I agree, I trust is a big thing. They did a great job throughout that match, really commentating talking about the relationship between the two, talking about how DDP is not afraid of Bill Goldberg unlike other people he's because obviously, the people of Bill Goldberg was beating up until then were mostly in scenarios where they were heels, and they were i'll just use the term, I don't know what's to use, kind of chicken shit heels. And this was not the case with this particular storyline that actually didn't have some storytelling. Commentators did a great job. But there is one more match that happened that I've got to share with you this evening, Okay, and it was not that great. So actually, earlier in the night, and this is not the match I'm sharing. Brett Hart beat Sting for the US title. It was actually voted the worst match I think that year in the Wrestling Observer. But there was a match, in my opinion, that happened that night that was much worse, and it was Haul Cogan and Warrior, a rematch from WrestleMania six, much anticipated rematch. And let's just add that. Then let's talk about to end this episode, how of a mess this pay per view was managed. He's going for something. Halkan's got something. He's digging out. You. I have no idea what that is. What it's a later probably would hug it was that was that like a fireball or something that he attempted to throw at the Warrior. He attempted to blind the Warrior, and the Warrior now rebounced from that. That was a unfortunate turn of events there that that didn't happen. About the throat, Oh my hugging time the warriors puffy back up. He's coming alive. I've seen this before, we all have. And Bishops grabbed the referee. Hors is coming the rank Why sure? Hit the Warrior in the back of the head. Runs that I can't believe what we just witness either, can I? I can't believe Tony Shavani what would just witnessed either. Okay, so obviously what started at the beginning for me, there was not a much anticipated rematch for myself. Wrestling had changed by now by this point in time. Yeah, I certainly didn't need a Hogan Warrior rematch. I know they were really relying on it to go over bigger. There was a lot in this pay per view tooh man, what the hell happened with the fireball thing? Like you were backstage through all this, What was set about? What was said about this match? First of all? Then what was said about the pay per view? Because it was managed terribly. I think a lot of people their expectations were met on that match, watching it from the back, because no one saw it as being The build up was dare I say awful? Everything about it was awful. And you had one guy who's gonna live his gimmick and do his thing to protect himself, and then I feel like you had Hogan who was doing things he wouldn't have done just to get through the match, if that makes sense, right, instead of making it more difficult and like struggling and you know, half a shoot brother, where we're going after each other. Let's just get through this thing and go with the scenario we talked about. But it was it wasn't even like one of those ones where you watch a match and the guys really enjoy it in the back. It was one of those things going damn man like there was no need for it. And it wasn't what I don't happen with the fireball bill Come on, man, it when it takes five minutes to do, it's already done. And you saw where the cameraman once you saw these things, and then the fact that Hogan put his hand up and a warrior was selling something that didn't happen, and then the half assed fireball comes out. It didn't matter anyway, crab abouting him the warrior, and then they go into all that other. It was a mess and it was a laughing stock and it was and and it was I think it was embarrassing. It was embarrassing. Nothing, nothing good came out of that warrior run when he was there. Nothing, that's the takeaway. I'm actually not as hard on Hogan as some people are, but obviously I would have much rather seen Hogan not go through the motions of what the potential story would have been and just do what needed to be done. If that makes sense, you know what I mean. And sometimes that means just roughling feathers and lack of a better terms. Some people say going into business for yourself, but Warrior was already in business for himself on that. Clearly to me, there was no concern on what the end product was on one side of it, And I think it just it painted Hogan in a really crappy light. And that fireball was the most ridiculous thing in the in the world. Three I edited out. I edited out it took much longer to light up than that. Let me let me undo the paper, let me find the lighter, let me take the bag out so it's not wet from my sweat and all this other stuff. And there could have been a million other different ways to do something like that, But in the grand scheme of the storyboard, we'll throw fire in his eyes and blind them. But it didn't matter. And the horse hugans that that thing made no sense. Nah, They tried like they tried like heck, and Horace was a good guy, as you know, but it just didn't. Like I said, in that time, there was a lot of things being thrown at the wall that were not sticking, but because of who was on top and calling the shots, those things, you know, fell through the cracks and were allowed to be done. Talk to us about the pay per view that night? What was the atmosphere like when they ran over missed the most people didn't even I was actually watching that live, I didn't get to see it. What what was what a general filling around the locker room when this pay per view is handled? If I remember right, it was one of those things, who who that blankety blank is in charge of this? And how did how did you let that happen? And now you know, because that's when all the boys knew about the gate and the buy rates and the pay per views, and so now the business sense that a lot of the guys came out and go, you've got to be, you know, crappingto my oat meal here. And then the next night, now you're gonna take that whole segment away from everybody who's supposed to be working and redo the show so you can show it refund the pay per view buys. Yeah, it wasn't much longer after this where you ultimately saw the demotic, complete demise of w C. Yeah, it was. It was really, it was so much grasping its straws and like I wasn't in the meetings, but it just seemed like everybody was listening to certain things and Okay, well let's try that, let's do this. Well, if that's not gonna worry, let's do this, and who really cares, let's just something but Honorable mentioned that end the episode, and I'm actually trying to edit it right now and get it out before midnight as actually today is the twenty six. It was my probably my top five matches of all time. It was nineteen ninety seven Halloween Havoc again in Las Vegas, but raym Masterio defeated Edie Guerro in a title versus a mask match for the cruiseweight Championship. Man huh, I don't know how this was. It was actually The Wrestling Observer's fourth best match that year, the amazing match. We're on fire every night of the week, YEP pay per view TV. We're all the boys like watching this at the monitor, like yes, yes, because you won. Look at the two people in the match, highly regarded, highly loved, highly respected, and you knew what you were gonna get. Wrestlers were going to get a wrestling match with some really good stuff going on. There was two guys out there, a little one upmanship, but at the same time there were both working for the same goal and it should have easily been the main event, you know. So that's the ones that everybody gravitated to. And then as the other things happened, you know, the monitors dwindled and all that other stuff, and guys believe in the arenas things like that. But great match. I I yeah, if you get that one up, that's way cool. I'm but everyone was invested in those two guys, and I mean everybody, not just the Vans. Everybody in the back was invested and never wanted to figure out, how do I get to work with Eddie? How do I get to work with Ray? You know, that was the thing back then. ECW you started the trend with the cruiserweights at de W. CW put them on a prime level, which is just so good. You know, at the end of the day, if they did one thing right, you can throw that at the hat. What they do at the Cruiserweight division. Yeah, and hats off to Conan for broker in that whole thing. H Conan, Yeah, providing the the the avenue to get that kind of talent and to to build that part of it. And uh, all those guys were amazing. Man, it was it was a it was a pleasure to joy working with all of them. It was they made you step up and and at the same time, you had the most fun in the ring because it was like, holy crap, here we go. You know, absolutely, man, I was cutting you off trying to say it, not because I wanted to, just don't know what you're done. But one another great episode. I will say, if you're not enjoying, if you're not checking this out live, you might be missing out. I don't know what we're gonna get away with sharing. This is an experiment in process. I might have to tweak what's been shared. But if you're not joining this live, you're missing out a little bit of an experience, that's for sure. Yeah. I like this. I like this live platform. And again I'll say that I love what we're doing. I love how you're how you're how you're doing it and leading the charge with the building experience, and I love this live stuff and I think the when people can see our expressions and what we do. I know, I get a little animated where we start talking about certain maths of things, but really cool. Man us doing some head shaking here in that last video. Uh anyway, Yeah, so make sure you're checking out the podcast and build them out dot com. We've got a bunch with This is gonna be the thirty second episode of the reboot. So yeah, it's it's been going along and moving well. We're moving in the right direction. Man, appreciate everyone's support. If you can't join us live, of course, just yeah, go to build them out dot com. Check out all the past episodes and the ones up and coming. Yeah, keep keep the questions coming in. We'll like, we want to put you over, We'll put you right on the show. We'll talk about you, and then again we'll follow you and retweeting and whatever whatever else it is. I really enjoy the interaction with the with our with our fans and the things that we're doing. So yeah, everybody go to the platforms and follow Jeff and I and and and just follow the experience and we'll keep on having fun. I'm at Paul guest father. He's a Bill Damont. Yeah. You can contact us social media or at the website. There's contact form or Bill DeMont pod at gmail dot com. Until next time, though, we do encourage you all to keep being yourselves and of course to keep being great. Shaded last Spanish model Jeff Townsend Media saves you good night. And the question is do I stay here? Will you be back? Are you gonna come back? Will you be back? Are you coming back?
