United States Championship part 1

What's she gonna do? Brother? When Jeff Townsend media runs wild on you, Molly? Alright, alright, alright, it's time for the Billy d Experience. I'm Jeff Townsend with me. Is the man, the myth, the legend, the man of many things. Just ask anybody. It's Bill Dumont. Just returned home from his homeland. Godly, yeah, back back uh forty years ago this month, I graduated high school and I walk Yes, that's right, ladies, gentlemen, I'm freaking old. Forty years ago I graduated and I returned back to Paramus, New Jersey, home of the Spartans, and we had a great, great presentation for the senior classes. They get ready for prom that's coming up tomorrow and then graduation. So it was good to be home. I went to Jersey via Georgia, had a great wrestling seminar out there Saturday in Millnard, Georgia. So it was really busy five days, but good to be home. Man. It's just I did this for so many years straight and never thought about it, and now you're kind of you know, I'm on the back end. I'm on the back nine here and I'm sitting there gone. Wow, that's a long five days. It's good to be home. My dogs. My dogs were very happy to see me. I'm sure, like everybody listening, it's good to be seen. It's good to be her. Thanks for listening. Yes for telling a friend we are back. I just shared an episode of you talking with Vince Russo. So if that was our last episode we shared. So if I start saying bro a lot today, know why, Bro? Let me tell you something bro so, Hey, you were talking about high school. I posted the high school picture of me this week. That made me picture. It made me realize I had hair, Like, what a great set of hair I had. This. Don't take this the wrong way. You look better. Now you look a bill. Now you look great, dude, I was. I was comparing the two big Ju'm going my man's aged. Well, okay. I I had a guy at work. I don't know if I've said this before, but he said something about me being forty and I was like, dude, I'm not forty. He's like, oh, I'm like thanks though anyway, Bill, So this week we were just talking about it. Before we hit record. I put together a T shirt with one of the good old because as I dive into a lot of these build him on experience from seven years ago. You have this saying yes and I had to put it on a T shirt. So what was just saying mean to you? And like when did when did it start? Because obviously it's it goes back, It goes back to my early early wrestling days, first started training and started to you know, delve deeper into the industry and just from being coached you know, through high school and college and things like that, and it was always it was always you know, put out there never more relevant than professional wrestling. But it's do what you say, say what you mean, and mean what you do, and those three things. If you do them, you know you're gonna put your head down at night and sleep well. As you know, It's kind of like that's always been my uh what is it called mantra? So uh yeah, it went up in every gym I trained at. It went up in the school, you know, in the school that I owned back in Georgia, and in the early stages of the Performance Center there was a big banner and do what you say, say what you mean, mean what you do. The shirt was amazing, Man, I can't wait for people to you hopefully people saw some of it, you know, because I know you posted it. But let's get those shirts out there. I'll tell you I'm in for three of those shirts because I I have no problem putting my mug on, you know, my chest. So I think it's a great shirt. It's that that pictures from the last Tough Enough with Stone Cold. We did a bunch of photoshoots and that's always one of my favorite shots in the hoodie. But yeah, that that that phrase means a lot to me, and I kind of kind of that's kind of like my mantra of things. So as long as you stated that, then you don't have to worry about what you said. You don't have to worry what you did and who you did it too, and you just stat is quote absolutely And just to communicate this, I have Jeff t shirts dot com. So what I did was I you know, I obviously have T shirts for a lot of the other content I create, but this one meant something to me because what I want to do is all the proceeds from it. Obviously it's a vendor fee in the middle, but any proceeds that actually come out on the end of the purchase. I want to make sure goes to the foundation. That's amazing, man. Yeah, I was in just through listening. I was trying to really surprise a Bill with this, and the distributor really wanted to stop me say they needed to talk to Bill directly to get permission to get his face on the shirt. It was a whole ordeal. So I didn't exactly get a surprise you one hundred percent. But nevertheless, man, I think it's I think it's awesome. I'm what is I'm honored by that. I think it's great that even thought that direction for it. So I'm excited for for everybody to see it. I'm excited for people to get it. And it's uh, it's really cool. I'm my you know, that's top of my list to get done. I'll have it in the show notes. But of course it is at jeff tshirts dot com, slash listing, slash build him on experience. So if you just go to Jeff t shirts dot com and you search for Bill, you will find it nice. And if you want to buy a bunch of my other merchant you're there. Oh that would be sweet, get that too, That's right anyway, No, so I wanted to right. Yeah, yep, So you talked about the foundation. Sounds like even when you go back home, you incorporate that in your other plans and then you go you're still spreading the message. You're still yeah, fighting the battle. Yeah, we you know. It's it was kind of a very cool week personally and then foundation wise. The chief of police in Premised Police Department, dear friend of mine, we grew up together. Kenny Ehrenberg retired after thirty six years on the force, and I say this with all due respect, retired standing up straight, walking well and healthy. He did great things for the town, in the community and the county. And his predecessor is one of my dearest friends, who was a deputy chief. So one of his first acts as chief of police this week is when he started was introducing the foundation to the school, you know, during this presentation for the seniors. So it was a short visit for like family and friend ends, but I got to see a bunch of my bunch of my peeps and we spent some time together and then as always, just you know, dropping the knowledge and spreading the message in the mission. It really was a good trip all the way around, and even and I gotta I gotta give a quick shout out to Hope Wrestling in Millnard, Georgia. You know, you know, there's a lot of shows around the country and people independence and doing the thing, but these guys really focus on faith and how they conduct themselves as aspiring pro wrestlers and doing those things. So I really appreciate getting to share a little bit of my testimony with them during the training camp, and then they had a great, great message prior to the show, and it's really just it's cool to see that out there. You know, it's a different time, it's a different it's a different energy, it's a different direction. But shout out to Hope Wrestling and Marty Miller and those guys out there doing a great job. I was, I was honored to be that. I really had a good time to say you and I you know, when we record these episodes, my mind thinks wrestling. So the whole trip up to Jersey Wrestling, Westling, Westling Wrestling, and then I got to Jersey and Foundation, Foundation Foundation, and now I'm home and its wrestling. Western wrestling life can be such a humbling experience. Yeah, man, So other sad news and I know a couple of people commented on it wanted you to hear about the Iron Cheek passing away. Now now, okay, so Iron Cheek and I'm on Twitter quite a bit, as are you this guy? Aside from all this wrestling, which we're gonna talk, well, we'll get into a little bit. His presence on Twitter for over a decade has been insane going at Chris Brown, just the things that in like with Howard Stern, he's just outside of wrestling even he's become such a cool like that like a figure, you know, and outside of wrestling, even like that character which is so stuck in time, like that's not going to come back again. No, I don't think so. And it's just he's made this whole life after wrestling off of it, obviously not getting near the cut of money that people do these days, right, man, talk about just an amazing character itself, the Iron Cheek. Yeah, he was like he's like a cult figure, you know. He he transcended you know, wrestling, you know. To me, it's like the same Terry Funks like that way there's certain guys and characters that transcend the industry and the funny part, especially on Twitter like. I mean, he made no bones about speaking his mind or saying what he wanted to say. So every f bomb in the world and everybody was a Jabroni and all these things. But what a cool you know, it was a cool time. I was one of those guys in that group who had a chance to spend time with him. I'd never worked in the ring with him. I've been on the same shows. I have a funny story about Chic when I first started wrestling. If we have time to share it, I'll do that. Yeah. So we were I was, you know, greener than goose turds. And we went to a Ste Jones, specially Delivery Jones and this cat mister Haiti put this tour together to the Cayman Islands. They brought a bunch of us young. I mean, we were green, like hitting the ropes and you know, yeah, you could take bumps. But that was it. You know, you didn't you didn't know much. But he took all of us from New York and on the card was Jyd and Chic and you know Ste was there and a couple other people. It's funny because we couldn't find him. It was showed that we spent three days in the Cayman Islands. We worked twenty minutes. So, you know, you let a bunch of wrestlers out in the Cayman Islands and everything's on the house and you're you know, you're on the beach and all this stuff. Well, you can't find him. So they send me that, you know, one of the young guys, to go find him. Knock on his door. Nothing, knock on his door. Just a minute, just a minute, Okay, come in and he's sitting in the middle of the room surrounded by candles. I don't even know how to address him, right because I didn't know him well enough to call him cheeky or anything like that. I'm like, sir, they're waiting for just a minute, JABRONI. And you know, he sat there for a couple more minutes and kind of was meditating, if you know what I mean, doing his thing. And um, when he was ready, he got up and we just walked to got to the ride there was so we went. But he was eight. I don't think he changed. There was no change in demeanor like he was that. He's that guy. I thought they did a great job on the documentary they did of his life, story and everything. But he had a lot to offer truly one of the industries natural bad guys. I mean just to heat Magnet, heat Magnet. But here's the thing, I think he also if you look back at it now, you realize that wrestling doesn't need to be so damn complicated. And that's an era that really just showed that it was taken concepts from reality and putting it into a entertainment aspect. Yeah, and he was just a part of that. Really a time when we weren't as worried about the ratings of the matches or setting up spots. It was really a storytelling. Yeah. And I just I just think it's a cool time in wrestling history that he was a big part of. Yeah. And you know, as you as you read the stories and some of the stories that the veterans are telling and stuff. But you know, historically there's no Whole Cogan without without Chic. You know, that Night in the Garden made Whole Cogan who he was. You know, there had to be a guy, a bigger baby face than he was. A villain. Cheek made him made him that guy. Uh, I urge everyone who's listening and everybody who catches this stuff. I urge you to go listen to and watch his Hall of Fame speech. So entertaining, so just so entering, Like everything that's good in the world of wrestling happens in that speech. Like he's who he is, he's entertaining, he's sharing life. And you could tell how grateful and humbly he is by the whole thing. But chic all the way through to the end. And it's truly as sad I think, you know, it's sad when I hate to use it to like when the old timers, you know, start to start to pass on, you know. But um, really good guy. I'm glad he was alive to see how that documentary turned out. Really happy for him personally that he got to start to, you know, make amends with his family and his daughters and things like that. So I hope, I hope that he was in a really good place at the time of his passing. But yeah, what a big what a big character and a big part of this industry. And you're right, is a it was a simpler time. It was easy. It was cowboys and the Indians. Man, it was like, let's just go out and tell this story. So simple, not one triple in heck of an athlete too, So it was really an opposing figure as well. When you have him and haul Coogan, like you said, those are times that are just kind of be etched in stone forever. I actually did share a clip of that him having him making hal Coogan humble, as I said, But obviously Hogan has a comeback, and then there's the rest is history. Like always then Hogan must pose, Hogan must pose. Did you ever heard that? Vince said that all the time. Yeah, yeah, I get listening to Bruce Richard's podcast, he said that it always came down to Vince would say, Hogan must pose. But yeah, big part of hal Cogan's putting him over, I guess in wrestling terms. Well, did you see in the documentary when they told the story how verne Ganyo told him Rake's late Raky's knee come back and work for me. That you know they al with this guy and and you know Chic being loyal to his coach, which was Ganya, but telling him like mcmannon's treating me well, and I have to do business. And so to hear those stories like that's the that's the part that people really need to watch and go. They people who think they have this business figured out. I have no idea the way these guys laid it out for us, you know, before we got into it. So really really cool stuff. Man, Speaking of which we'll get to some lessoner. Excuse me, listener questions. On the back end of this, we're talking about history, Bill and like I we've been talking about I'm sure this will be a multi partner, but today I wanted to kick it off talking about the WWE United It's now, but overall the United States Championship. Yeah, obviously you've held the title. It's it's it's one of your favorites. So I'm excited to talk about that a little bit today. Just real quick, what do you remember as a fan before you got into it about this title in the meaning of it. I was so I'm you know, from being from the Northeast, everything was WWF but we didn't get like when we finally got cable. That's right, when I said we finally got cable, it was always you could catch TBS and it was you know, wrestling from down south, you know, So I the belts, the championships at that time didn't really resonate with me, and I didn't really follow all of the you know, hullabaloo around it, and for me, WWF wise, the Intercontinental Championship to me was just as big as the World Championship. Back then, they treated it that way, you know. So when when all these and then WCW, you had a TV champion and so everything started to word down a little bit because you had to have all these champions to justify. But back then, I feel like you had them because you had all these studs and you could justify each one of these championships, you know, Tag teams and Intercontinental and US and TV champions and all these things. I thought it was like, if you didn't think about becoming a champion when you got in this business, you were nuts. I mean naturally, I thought, okay, independently, I could become a champion of one of these independents. But then you know, became a champion in Puerto Rico, and became a champion in Japan, and yeah, going to all these things. So when when I had the opportunity to get involved in the history of you know, WCW with the United States Championship, like you gotta be Kidney like that's buzz Sawyer territory. That's that's very Wyndham territory. You know, that's all these these guys that came before. So I think that's when I really started to understand the history of who came before me. That's when the titles meant more to me, you know, even as a even as a fan, even being in the business, but as a fan, they meant more to me. And I wanted to wow that, you know, Harley raced this and all these you know, all these guys and it did amazing things. And to be able to say you joined that that group of men for no matter what legs of time is really for whatever people think of this business, that really means a lot. To the performers, you know, to the wrestlers. It really I can't speak for now because I'm sure it does, but I think everybody that's the thing. You could not really treat it in front of people a big thing like I promised you. I held tight to that. I thought it was the best thing. Every opportunity I had to become a championsim. I treated it like that, like this is it It's to me, It's it's one of those things obviously didn't watch wrestling as early as you did. But it's one of those things where it's always been there, you know what I mean. There's a period of time I guess when it wasn't, but nevertheless it's been there from really when wrestling we obviously pro wrestling has been a long long before. Yeah, but the territory, the territory days, this thing was significant. And you said the name of the first guy that held it, right, I mean it was Harley Race January first, nineteen seventy five. They introduced it. This was in Jim Crockett's mid Atlantic Championship Wrestling. Yeah, it was a territory, like I just said, part of the NWA. He became the first champion, and the word is after he won a tournament. Now it's it's It's funny enough because some people actually say that they don't there's a name of who he beat, but they don't really know the tournament. It's kind of like Pat Patterson story, you know what I mean, Like like the championship Hally won it and uh but man, we'll talk about just the first person to have it, Harley Race. That's that says a lot. And to get to you know, fast forward towards the training part of my career and running the systems and all to have Harley coming into the to the camps and spending days with us and talking like nobody was picking his brain about the current. Everybody wanted to just sit around the tree and listen to the business as it was and learn from him and that, and you know, Harley was always very um open to those conversations. It wasn't like, oh, I'll get away from me, kid, I kN like because everybody respected him and did it the right way. But like for for guys like me, like like I and say I'm in that group of people. As the group gets bigger, I still look at that group and go, what a what a unbelievable. And we're talking about the United States. Every championship has an amazing lineage. I really thought it was so cool and just kind of like that pinch me thing of if you go down to names, you look and you go, holy crap, there I am right next to this one and this one and naturally didn't come close to doing what Harley did with it, but just to be able to sit and talk to them and then develop that that friendship with them later on has just been been really cool. Man. The individual he defeated was Johnny Weaver, Johnny Weaver commentator, former are obviously former professional wrestler. It was Johnny Weaver. And it's another thing cool about this title. So at the time, the NBA didn't recognize a Soul champion due to every region having their own United States title. So this was actually just it was actually established as an exclusive INWA United States Heavyweight Championship. That's pretty cool too. Yeah. It was their way of it was their way of saying, hey, this is our title because back then there's a lot of traveling champions Yeah, like we said, territories, obviously championship traveled, et cetera. It was like a shared experience. Yeah, oh boy, that's the how that changed by about the time you got in there. But uh, nevertheless, this was in WA's like this is ours, this, this is our heavyweight championship. Yeah. They put their stamp on it, and yeah, they made it matter, they made it mean something. Yeah, and this is a route. This this is actually as we continue and we've talked about this bill to introduce new championships, we've seen two of them. Excuse me if nat flying around. Two of them introduced in the last couple of weeks, the unexpected Roman Rains one which I didn't see comming until it happened. And then of course we've seen seth Rawlins as he gets the raw title that they created. Right, this was big for them then because this is this is what they had. Yet you you had to earn that that opportunity. You had to earn that spot to work with guys that caliber and to build you had to have a reputation to be that champion into the hold that that belt and and and be the carrier of that title. I mean, it's definitely as the business has changed, the whole mentality has changed. But back then, you didn't Scott, Yeah, he's the United States Champion. No, that was like that was it, dude. That was like you were the man. And that's the one because of Harley and and the people that followed them, that's the one that everybody wanted. I think I personally think there was a time when the the US Championship was more sought after by the guys then than the world champion because back then, you know, let's say fast forward, when you had Flair as the as the world heavyweight champion. Flair was Flair, and you had a certain group of people that were in that caliber to run with Rick. But that United States one made it to where if you worked up to it, you could run, you know. But you had to have that reputation, You had to have that that thing about you, and you had to be worth even being in the picture. Not and I don't mean to say it's different, but nowadays, all of a sudden someone's a number one contender, that's it. No, you had to you had to work the road on that and prove your prove your worth to even get in that in the conversation. And back then they had a lot, the champions had a lot to say who they wouldn't wouldn't work with, or who they would or wouldn't you know, put over or or allowed to carry that you know, championship. So I think they were all like that. I think initially they were all very meaningful, and you had to there had to be more than just okay, an opportunity. You had to work for that. So Bill the second champions Actually it comes one hundred and eighty three days after Harley Race wins it in tallahassee Florida. It's Johnny Valentine. He gets this in Greensboro, North Carolina. It's July third, nineteen seventy five. That's huge man, Johnny Valentine. Obviously, this is a a short lived run for him. And this was at the very end for Johnny Valentine because actually what happened was, and we and most people listening it probably heard of that there was a plane crash, right, Rick Flayer was on there, David Crockett, Tim Woods and what was it, Bob Burgers. But anyway, the plane crash is just tragic enough, right, with too much weight on the in the plan, I believe, and this is a career ending injury for him that he suffers from this. How long did he actually hold the how did he get credited for holding the title for it? Was what I'd just say eight? Was it a eighty three? Eighty three days? Yeah? And then and then Johnny Valentine was done, right, I mean ninety three days? Yep? And he was after that. That crash happened on October fourth, don't on July third. Obviously we hear about this crash a lot because of Rick Flayer. Yep. Yeah, and he was done Man, So then the title is actually vacated. That's a career ending spinal injury for him. Yeah, just just tragic. Another great wrestler. And so the title goes vacant and they have a tournament for the championship and then well man, one of my favorite wrestlers is actually going to be the third champion. So November ninth, he goes vacant for about a month. Terry Funk beats Paul Jones and a tournament final to win the championship. Terry Funk Man say no more. You could see Terry Funk and we can all just sit and think of our favorite Funk moments and and things like that. But it goes back to what I said in the beginning, like listen to the three men you just mentioned. That's that was the cool part for me. That was the history of it. And and like they didn't just put it on like well, let's put it on Terry Funk, who's been No. These guys were carrying this thing like you know, it was Fort Knox, and they all meant you know, they all made it mean something. So going back to the term of things are a little bit wordered down. Then nine states champion held a lot of a lot of stroke and a lot of weight in this industry, and the people treated that way because the athletes, the men treated it that way. You we do have some younger listeners of this podcast. If you just started watching wrestling around the attitude there, you probably don't really realize how great Terry Funk was, the amazing matches that he had going back beyond twenty years before that, Terry Funk comes in as just a hardcore character does some great stuff with mcfoley. But man, if you didn't watch before or haven't gone back and check stuff out, Terry Funk was a part of amazing matches with the likes of Jerry Lawler, I guess my point is so many different territories Terry Funk will go into and have the famous five star matches. Yeah, but man, Terry Funk is one of the best ever and you just don't know that unless you watch before then. Yeah. I think a lot of people are introduced to Terry Funk at Roadhouse, right, you know, because he did movies and things like that. But people go Terry Funk, the guy from Rownhouse, and you want to go, no Funk like the Funk family. Now, Terry, I've I've had opportunities to work with him dozens and dozens of times. And again it's one of those things like you're a little kid going, this is the coolest thing in the world, Like I'm picking Terry Funk up and I'm about to, you know, beat the crab bottle woman. But just the things he can do, his knowledge and there it is that the clout to carry that they never put it and they don't want to say put it, like they just decided to put on someone. No one ever carried that title or any of the titles back back in the day that weren't worthy and did they didn't. You know, it was always someone they thought would make it mean more than the guy previous. And I think that's what they were, you know, that's what was happening back then. I think that a little bit of that's lost nowadays. But the business, you know, go go to the business has changed. But you went from Harley Race to Johnny Valentine and weren't Terry Funk. She's a loop. Yeah. Now it's intimidating to get into that mix. And you know, when you're thinking about this bill, it's it's It's crazy when you think about what the title became post and just where it's like everything else where they begin, it's really humbling. And like I said, Terry Funk not just a hardcore guy either. These guys were talking about right now. They weren't some death match as Bill. Yeah, and and and and the the history of the Funks in Japan and and the things that they did over there, like people need to watch that. Like I always said that about Hogan, not to split off into a different thing, but Hogan and Japan work differently than Hogan and in the States and the Funk you know, Dorry and see here in junior. You know, all the Funds did was was gold and they were men, and they could they could wrestle, you know, they could go. So this is no uh, this is the hell of a boys club we're talking about here. Terry Funk wins a championship. Like we just said, they only last for a couple of weeks here, I think it was nineteen days to recognize. So this is what happens now, Paul Jones defeats him. He defeated Paul Jones, as we just covered, to get the title. Paul Jones defeats him. And what this sets up, Bill is about a year and a half rival between Paul Jones and black Jack Mulligan where they exchange wins back and forwards over this title, a story that goes on over a year and a half. Looking at it, it's it's multiple title changes, Bill. So we have Paul Jones and then another name that it's just like black Jack Mulligan. Man, that's just these are huge names. And this is all happening by the way, into Carolinas, right, and it's it's not happening on pay per view events. It's not happening in you know, uh, twenty five thousand seat arenas. These are live events, and you know it's on the road a year and a half story. And you know nowadays you talk about, well now this guy's got the title of this guy. They didn't just pass it back and forth. That's a year and a half story. I've been in those situations, you know, like especially with the US title thing um and we were talking a little bit about land Storm in my relationship with him. To have that kind of run just solidifies the championship and solidifies those two men. And and and that was the thing even when you weren't the champion. After that, you were made. If you were in those storylines and you were in that grouping and you were considered to be someone to carry that that title, you were made after that, So you didn't need to be you know, you always there's someone you lear. People say, well, that person doesn't need that a championship. They are who they are. But back then, if you carried that and you had that, um, excuse me on your resume, you were made and they were all they were all great without the without the title. So but again, this is an NWA title. This is the NWA title, So it is staying here in the same location and it's being defended. We have a year and a half rival here. Like we just talked about black Jack Mulligan, so I'm gonna let you for a minute describe him and how it relates to wrestlers these days and some things that people might not know as far as current wrestlers that are related. I think if you took like, you'd have to build the perfect black Jack, right, Like for those who are listening to understand, like you take Stan Hanson and you take jbl and you take bark gunn and you take Terry Funk and you take chess you can name and you put them onto one d. Black Jack Mulligan had a presence, Bruiser Brody, you know, these these style, these these men built like that, and you didn't just call someone black Jack Mulligan and hopefully he was a badass or someone that can carry that moniker. This guy was a monster, but it was a machine. And then so him and Jack Lanza together as the Blackjacks. Jack Lanzo another big imposing force, but could but could wrestle. So anyway, the lineage of black Jack Mulligan, you have Barry Windham, right, you have Kendall d Yeah, Kendall Windham, you have Bo Dallas, you have Usky Harris, you have all these you know, all these generational talents, and it's just they learned it from being young and watching what the you know, what the olders did. But black Jack and I had I had a great opportunity with Jack Lanza for years to use my agent and just the knowledge and the idea of this is how simple it can be always and just followed this formula. But again I'm always going to go back to they made it matter and they treated it that way. They didn't go, oh, it's just a thing and let's you know, let's just have a good match. And no, they walked, you know, and they showed it, and they they demanded that respect of being that that champion. Um. But Blackjack was. It was a beast like in a time when you know, like they say, men were men, like there was no two beers in a cigarette and let's fight. That's that's the kind of you know, that's the kind of men they were. Micro Reton to obviously, as we're going through here, Microton to the I RS another great wrestler then his then his sons were Bo Dallas and Bray Wyatt, so Grandpaul, black Jack Mulligan. He actually going back before this, he had quite a great run in the WWWUF in the early seventies. As you probably remember the iron call submission hold, yeah, I love that. Yeah, I love that blow. Right. That was the whole thing with the glove, yeah, the fingerless it was at the black I think it was black fingerless glove, Yeah, yep. And that's why he saw so many guys pay tribute to it over the years. And you know, even his you know, even his family members, Barry warred at one time, Kendall Warrett, bow Warrett, Wyndham Warrett. I'm not sure if Mike ever ever wore the glove. But these are these are not just for the just for the sake of argument. These these men in this family were not to toy with. They were all great amateur athletes and professional athlete. So when he gets done with this, fast forward a few years, he's really having Matt He's having matches in Madison Square Garden with Bruno. He goes on this feud with Andre the Giant and black Jack Mulgan. What's what's he's about. He's six nine, three hundred pounds Bill, Yeah, he is a big imposing guy. Then he is teaming up with Rick Flair. He really went on after this after he was already in the industry for a while and had a great run here in the in the end. But like I said, I do remember the Andre the Giant things and and Andre the Giant. I think he actually said that. I remember him saying his strength had no limits. He was talking too, he being Andre the Giant. He was talking about Andre the Giant. But I remember those matches, and as far as being an imposing character, black Jack Mulligan was really one of the very few that he goes up against Andre and you're like, are still way bigger, But he's a big guy and they did some good stuff. Yeah, and you're like he could beat him, you know, and yeah, but it goes back to the type of person he was, not just athlete because Andy and I know you've heard the stories and people that are truly wrestling fanatics, you hear the stories like if Andre didn't want to do something, Andre didn't do it. But if you were that kind of person and had that quality about you and could carry it, you'd have some great matches with him, and Blackjack was one of those guys. After a year and a half with black Jack and Paul Jones having great matches, Blackjack Mole again loses the title to Bobo Brazil. Bobo Brazil and the thing that I didn't necessarily tie into this title, but I do remember he is significant because he is really known for breaking down the barriers is racism in professional wrestling. So the titles passed over here, Bobo is breaking down barriers. So again you have this United States Championship at a time when America's really civil rights are still battling, we do still, but nevertheless significant person in the professional wrestling industry. Yeah, I mean he I mean, if I'm not mistaken, Bobo Brazil is probably one, if not the first, one of the first African American athletes to hold that, not just that title, any title, and especially you know we're talking about NWA and in the South there was still white change here, Blacks change here? This one does you u, Katie Dear? And you hear those stories throughout your career, if you're lucky to get educated on those stories, you know what I mean. But Boe Broke Brazil. I don't think a lot of people tie him into that, but he truly groundbreaking. Yeah yeah, he's actually quoted as really being significant because of that. Especially he's recognized as one of the first successful black professional wrestlers, which is a significant twenty two day title reign, then loses it to Rich excuse me Rich. He was Rick Flair in Virginia, Richmond, Virginia on July twenty, nineteen seventy seven, and oh boy, build so Rick Flair wins this title, he has it for eighty four days and he drops it to Ricky Steamboat. This is the start and there and this goes there's some breaks in between, Bill, but this really starts a great series of matches that Steamboat and Flair have throughout the years. So Rick Flair picks it up any any then Steamboat is the next. But man, talk about the beginning of something special, and we're going to see more of a trend here and and all black Jack Mulligan wins the title again. Then he drops it to mister wrestling um is Tim Woods, I believe is his name is the other name I remember him going by ye, but Man, right after that it becomes a huge Rick Flair Ricky Steamboat thing that goes clear into the end of the seventies. So really this these couple of years, here are Rick Flair, Ricky the Dragon Steamboat having these matches for this significant championship, which which you know, to your point, as we as we keep going forward with this, neither one of them has it at the times of a lot of their a lot of their they were made. And then then you listen, there's a lot of people who say the best rivalries in wrestling Flair Steamboat. I mean, you go Flair Steamboat, Flair Rhodes Steamboat, Savage. You know, whoever they whoever they touched and locked up with became gold. But that's because they had the opportunity to stay and dance with that guy all over the country. Like they were drawing so much that other promoters to your point of the territories, but we have to have them. They're drawing you that kind of we have to have them. And then so they made their rounds. But to me, then, like you said, Blackjack came back into the picture and they meant something when they were back in the picture, and that's those were the people that carry that, you know. But Flair Steamboat, I mean, if you don't watch anything else, you want to go learn about wrestling back in the day, watch all the Flair Steamboat match. Yeah, actually try to steal from it, because you can't. You can't rea you can't repeat it. You can't do it they did. These are matches that Dave Meltzer actually gave five stars. What I know. I know they're not as good as the aw matches, but they were good. Oh I mean, but I might start liking this Meltzer. Okay, I'm just getting y'all fired up now, But seriously, the amazing matches that you have to go back and watch. And as far as establishing establishing Rick Flair as a significant champion here. Man, he goes on two hundred and fifty three day title reign, he goes on one hundred and forty day title ring. He is really becoming a big name here in this territory. Rick Flair, I wouldna say, and finding himself more and more as he continues on these runs and realizes what not only what the championship can do for him, what he can do for the championship. And like the come out, it's Rick Flair, It's the predecessor for there after. This are these This is over ten great years of Rick Flair as the ANWA champion, amazing years of progress folded with amazing matches. This is starting to tell off here because there is a big change coming. We're gonna hit it. But the next to get it is Jimmy Snooker. He defeats Rick Flair in a house show in September one, nineteen seventy nine. Man, that's uh who Jimmy Snooker. Man, he comes under the picture here gets involved. Obviously. People you think of Jimmy Snooker, you think a post that you think of WWF, but he's involved with this too. Talk about another huge name, Hall of Fame name that early on in his career never spoke. Yeah, he was getting over with his physique, his mannerisms, the bare feet, you know, the whole island thing, but he never spoke. He did all that before he became Jimmy. But I think he goes back to that thing, and I guess that's my thread throughout the whole thing. This championship, this United States Championship, made these men who who they are and who they would become because it was important if you were in that picture, you had to be someone. As a fan, I need to know more about you. I have to watch you because now you're the you're the United States Champion, and you went with Flair and before you know, and it was Steamboat and it was Harley, and it was all these guys. And it wasn't Frank and Pete and Bob, it was Jimmy Snooker. Yeah, and they all became I feel like they all became more relevant after their runs as United States Champion because how many of them went on to become world champion and all these others that's what I'm exactly. This is really a career building thing for these guys, and Rick Flair is going to get the title back from him and goes on another one hundred Okay, so Jimmy Snooker had a Twitter in thirty three days, which is these days. That's that's a crazy long time. Yeah, Rick Flair has another hundred day rain before he loses a Greg Valentine on July twenty sixth, nineteen eighty Greg the Hammer Valentine. And of course, who's his father, Johnny Valentine. So yeah, hey, yeah, I think about that. We just talked about that. So Greg de Hammer gets this after this the title goes through a little bit of change here, and we'll talk about that. But Greg to Hammerman, another great name. He gets it from Rick Flair, and there's a history there obviously with Jeffy Valentine and how cool is that? And and you know, you're we're we're trying to stay and well I say this, you're trying to stay in the United States Championship history. But I keep going like, look what these guys have done after the fact, Like yeah, it's a it's a as you're saying it again, I'm seeing it going because you think of them as so much and it's not to be little the championship at all, but you think of them as so much more than the United States champion based on how it's perceived today. But these guys are amazing. And and to go full circle, father to son, it goes to the history of this business. There's relevance there, there's a meaning behind it. It wasn't just like, okay, you know what, let's take Bill and let's put Jeff together and of them becomes the number one contender. It didn't work that way. You had to work your way up the ranks, prove your worth, be roadworthy, you know, and and and do your thing. So yeah, Greg Valentine, man, another guy know, Ruffian do Yeah, badass ah. So man, it just gets crazier from here. This is just exciting to me. Obviously, the title loses some flair. Is not ric flair, but he it does. But it loses some significance throughout history. But here's the thing, So the next you're gonna have Rick Flair, he wins it back. Okay. And this is a little bit of a controversial one because it's not always recognized and a lot of historical wrestling references. This is the last title ring before this that, so Roddy Piper is gonna beat Rick Flair. Roddy Piper, excuse Me's gonna become the champion on January twenty seventh, nineteen eighty one. And this is significant because what happens here is the United States Championship. Was trying to think of how to really describe this. It became the Undisputed Championship because the NWA office that I think I think it was out of San Francisco, the last promotion to be recognized its own territory closed. So this is the moment in time here in part, this title is part of the passive of the torch of the death of the territories and it becomes more It's undisputed and Roddy Piper, which is another insane name. But this title actually goes through a change here Bill because it's it's it's undisputed now last remained territories gone in WA utilizing this mid Atlantic It's it's those days are over all the history before it. Then you have Roddy Piper pick it up here is it's kind of the second generation of this championship after this change happened. So yeah, I just touch up on two big things. You have the territory closing down, and then this title moves on through history. But like I said to me, this is the second part two of this championship right now. There's now there's a different breath of it too, there's a different level to it. And knowing that the territories were fading out, and like you said that San Francisco closing, that's the thing. Like who's going to carry this undisputed title? And they put it on of all people, Piper, we could go down rabbit holes with all these guys. But man, talk about a greatness Like this is what you do to me. You you bring me back to why I love this business, Like what the and and the funny thing is you and I are talking about this and this is the same. These are the conversations that I miss in the locker room after all the years. You know, you have camaraderie, but when you could sit with a bunch of guys, even on a car ride, when I'm riding with Haku and Boss Man and One Man Gang and we're sitting at these four bohemis and we're talking about the history of the business. That's when I learned. That's when I that's when I fell in love with the thing that was paying me to become this this person. So I'm just enjoying the trip down the history here. But that's huge. When you put it like that, it's like the territories are ending. But this title reign has now a new beginning right now. It's gonna have more eyes on that. It's gonna have an old different it's gonna have a whole different set of eyes, you know, as part of the country too, because now more people are gonna see this. It's huge, Bill and this is also Rick Flayer's absence of fifteen years before he wins the title. Next, I believe, I believe like we're setting a stage here, Like you just said, this is a whole other generation of people. So let's dive into it. Man. So Roddy Piper holds it for one hundred and ninety three days and he loses to Wah Who McDaniel August eighth, nineteen eighty one, and man, mister McDaniel became a huge connection to this belt for several years to come. You sit like I hope I hope the people that are listening turn other people onto this and listen to what what you're bringing to the table. Here. I'm sitting here listening as a as a fan, and I'm watching we're recapping this, and you're like, Okay, wait a minute. We've talked about Harley Race, Blackjack, snook Up, Bobo, Brazil, history making moments, Steamboat, all these things. Now we're talking about Flair and we're talking about all these things, and now you're saying, Roddy Piper, yeah. And then we're going, well, it doesn't get bigger than that, because we know Flare will come back and get it and these things, and now you just bring Wahoo McDaniel into it. This is this Piper moves on to bigger and better things. What's let's acknowledge that what Piper does after this is freaking huge. But well, Wahoo McDaniel, he really legitimized this title. Once again, you see a lot of people coming and going here as the territories are dying, but he has a run here with this that is significant. He was a fighting champion, like Wahoo McDaniel was a meeting potatoes guy. And again it goes back to his amateur days, his professional days outside of wrestling, and who he was. But these I can't believe the names are getting and they're gonna get bigger still. But you look at the names we've talked about in this short amount of time, and I'm going I feel like it's so easy that we could do this again. It gets crazier. So this is exactly not the most successful title, and he had he held the title five times while who actually goes about a month Bill, then he gets injured by Abdullah the Butcher and he has to vacate the title. Man, I'll duel the Butcher. Bill. Does anybody realize what again, it's generational, But to these guys up here, Abdullah the Butcher, go back and watch and learn the people he's danced with and the things he's done, and why he is in the Hall of Fame and why he is you know, his reputation is what it is. The names just keep getting ridiculous here and it's there's no well, and I'll try to throw a little humor. There's no really backsliding on this championship till I get it. Otherwise the momentum that really Bill, it gets bigger, It gets bigger next brother, it does so like I said, so don't get me wrong, Obdual the Butcher did not win the title, right right, but he took again. We're gonna have a championship tournament, Okay, comes down to the finals October fourth, nineteen eighty one, Ricky Steamboat and Sergeant Slaughter. Sergeant Slaughter comes up with a victory and has a two hundred and twenty nine day title run. And man, but here's the great thing about it, Bill Well, and we'll talk about Sergeant Slaughter, but Wahoo has a comeback story and we'll have several months of great matches with Sergeant Slaughter after this. You're you're you're, you're dropping the biggest till till this day. You're still dropping the names in history that are still relevant today. And for people that are listening and catching up to what we do. We're tony about the United States Championship. We're gonna get eventually one of these episodes, we're gonna get to Austin Theory. Yeah, Austin Theory should be listening to the show going and he's a student of the game, so don't get me wrong, but he should be going. Holy crap, like I want to know now I got, I got goosebumps. It's wrestling, right, I want to I wanted to go back in and try to emulate what they did, not what I did. I want to That's that's it's wrestling history. And it goes and I feel like now we're talking about guys who are bringing the title with them. Instead of the title bringing them, they're bringing the title with them. Yeah. So yeah, Sargeant Slaughter has a two hundred twenty ninety and run here. Then WAHU make Daniels able to come up with the victory on May twenty first, nineteen eighty two. He holds it for eighteen days, then another house show, poor Wahoo McDaniel. Okay, so he was injured by Don Rocca Roddy Piper before the matches the thing here. Then Sargeant Slaughter gets a seventy six day run again. Coming into August, the end of the Sumber, he has a match against Wahoo McDaniel again and he comes up with a victory. So, like I just said, this was a year of Wahoo McDaniel and Sergeant Slaughter going out for this title and it kept no matter when they insert another name, the other guys are still in the mix. And that was the beauty part about it was it wasn't just once you lost it or relinquished it or got hurt you were out of it. You were back in like this was this is significant in the business. This is when you knew your work and everything resonated with this industry and your bosses and the fans because they welcome you right back for because these were listen, like you're you're saying, one hundred and ninety three days, two hundred and something days like these are unheard of numbers and unheard of time spans of championships and what it means, you know, and not one time have we talked about a world heavyweight chip. We know they've all become world heavyweight champions, some of them, most of them in some place in time, but we're stuck in this US championship. But to me, it's like what we're just saying, now, they're bringing the championship along with them and people are gravitating too, and it really these are some of the best feuds in wrestling. Yeah, well, well said Bill. I can't explain it any I'm getting red in the face. I'm getting so damn excited here, Bill, it's these names are making me crazy. It could be that I turned off the air conditioner too, so I didn't have background noise. But but I am getting excited, Bill, I am. I am uh wow. So that's not the last of all. Who McDaniel by the way, with the title no, So he's got to drop and it's not the last. Like I just said, Greg Valentine gets back in the picture on November fourth, nineteen eighty two, picks up the victory, has one hundred and sixty eight day title ring and then again so this we just had this year long battle here with the other two. Now let's rotate in a new storyline here with Roddy Piper, and Greg Valentine having these matches for this title from the fall of nineteen eighty two clear into almost the summer of eighty three with Piper and Greg Valentine. So Greg Valentine, like it just said, gets up to win, Piper gets the wine, gets the win, and they have a several almost a year long rival here that this title. Obviously a lot of things happen in between, but this title and them go at it back and forth for nearly a year. Yeah, and because it you could leave it, introduced new characters, introduced new personas, and still come back to the meat and potatoes of the whole thing. That's how strong these guys were over this is their work rate and what they did for themselves, individuals and the company and you know, the people they were working for was like you said, you could just keep inserting them at any given time. But this is a year long another year long feud, and and highly underrated feud too. Piper Valentine, Like I encourage people, and we talked about a lot. I encourage everybody who listens and talks wrestling with their with their buds and whoever else, other fans and people who love the business, go watch Piper Valentine feuds. I mean, there some great stuff. And so not only are we talking about this US Championship, we're bringing up some great wrestling man. Yeah. So Valentine won the title against Piper here at the on on his rain we're talking, Piper had this terrible cut over his ear. I'm remembering just the blood involved with that, and that story is the ref stops the match. Yeah, okay, So then Greg Valentine two hundred twenty nine days and Dick Slater defeats him for the championship on December fourteenth, nineteen eighty three, in a house show still in North Carolina. Dick Slater, Dick Slater, Dirty dig Slater, another another man's man. Wasn't his name rich Van Slater? Rich? Yeah, that's his Actually, that's his Actually, that's his name, right. Yeah, the road with Dirty Dick a lot. We spent a lot of time in Japan towards the end of his you know, active career. But the other thing that really is important to me is, like, and you're putting great emphasis on it, is that these these title reigns are changing at live events. And even in the early eighties, unless you knew someone, you had to wait for the tapes or you had the magazines were what told was telling you the stories. So imagine the work they're doing in the storytelling that's in magazines and rarely on the VHS stuff, but they're doing in live events all over the country now. So that's drawing. That's yeah, the meaning of drawing a house Well. Vets McMahon hadn't quite got his clause dug into the pay per view seen yet, which revolutionized wrestling. You're right, Bill, these are house shows, man, this is happening. Can you imagine being in the audience for this. No nowadays, nowadays, you you never you'd never seen it happened. It happened years ago. I don't know what year the first time Epico and Premo became tag team champions. We did it at a live event just to that's just to shake things up on me the internet and then going into the next raw. So it's not something that's done anymore, and it's it's it's kind of just frowned up on. They want to save it for TV. These guys were doing it with magazine coverage, no TV and really rebuilding the territories that were shut down. They're they're going in there reviving wrestling for everybody. Because what's happening here behind the scenes in the world and America will say, is cable that works. So all this is really starting to shrum up here as we get into the early eighties, and it obviously changes things, but this is still a we'll just say dying territory if you want to call it that. And these are happening in the house shows, like you just said. But yeah, Cable has started to become something at this time period and it will change things and we'll get into that, but yeah, I did want to note that for he's listening. For the people listening, they may not understand that television's really starting to come around now and it's going to change things. But yeah, old fashioned house shows are still what's happening here and keeping this championship great. Yeah. I mean, the reason, the reason it took off, and again I'm trying not to drift, but the reason it took off with Cable is because I wanted you know, I'm speaking for myself, the guys on the magazine covers and the stories I was I was reading, and the blood and the championships and all these things. Now I get to see it on TV. That drew me to that product. It made it made not only did it take the wrestling fan, it took the wrestling fans family, his friends. It got people involved because now you have there's proof to what you've been following. You know, there's now you're gonna get to see these guys. It's like for real, for real. So after one hundred and twenty nine days, Ricky Steamboat gets the title in April twenty first, nineteen eighty four. This last sixty four days, Bill, and guess who's back in the picture? Bah who? McDaniel Gin twenty fourth, nineteen eighty four. He gets the title, and this is when they have a creative storyline here. So he only has this for a week. This time on July first, nineteen eighty four, it's vacated and it was stripped from him because Tolly Blanchard interfering in McDaniel's title of defense. So by interfering, the title is stripped from him. I haven't seen that one in a while. So what you're saying is there there are new ways for relevancy with this title. Yeah, like now now, yeah, Now, not only do you have to be a great wrestler and this this character and have this persona. Now they're gonna throw storylines into right now, there's gonna be controversy and now the not that we ever lose the year feuds, in these long running feuds. Now we know there's another way to get involved in it in this thing. But you still had to be someone, right, you still had to be relevant. But now there's a new twist in how to become a champion or what causes it, and they held true to the rules, interference and all those things back then. That's it, right. So this happened on July first, nineteen eighty four, and there is a redemption period here, a new title tournament is sprung up, and it all culminates here to an end on October seventh. So you have several months here, Bill, where this is a redemption story for Wahoo McDaniel. So he defeats Manny for Mandez in a tournament final for the vacant title. He gets the title back after it's vacated. And this wasn't a month or so, Bill, several months went here with this vacated title and Wahoo McDaniel's redemption to get the title. That's that fight, right, there's the story like can he do it? And without knowing the exact verbiage or how the story was told, you had to keep going back only seven days, fourteen days, he got hurt, he you know all these things. He's gonna you know, this is Dusty Rhodes one on one booking this. You're gonna take this man all the way till till he reaches you know, his goal. And people went along for the ride. Yeah, now, you're right, it's just the storytelling is just so, it's on a whole other level. But it's yet so simple, but yet so great. And I guess that's why I like it. You know, I'm gonna put you on the spot. I'm gonna change gears on you completely right now, and I'm gonna ask you. I want you just what I'm thinking about, want your honest answer. Right as I asked the question, why can't we tell those same stories today? It's almost as if we've tried to make wrestling a science. I get it, the Internet and all that. Like you said, back then, magazines who are huge, Man, you had to tape sharing and stuff comes after this and there's not a way to consume all this back then. But now we almost we have so much wrestling. I get we only have three real three or four big companies, but still we're have so much wrestling between them, and it almost seems like we've tried to make it a science and overcomplicated it. Maybe that's a societal thing. I don't know. Nope, that's story overcomplicating it like making it. To me, the way to make it mean more is do less. These guys are all geniuses at what they did. And I'm gonna say it again, not one time in what we've been breaking down now has there been a triple Lindy. There hasn't been a Moonsalt, there hasn't been the Whirling Dervish, there's no suicide dives, there's none of this stuff. They kept you involved within the parameters of that ring. And the biggest thing that's happened is now only Blanchard caused the you know, the vacating of the title. Why can't we do that again? Like it's almost because we have great historians and we're almost afraid to try because they think either there's not enough trust in the talent that's there or they don't think they need to go back to it. But imagine if we did, how the what we'd be talking about, you know, five years from absolutely crazy. Sorry that just brought me to that question. No, no, So this next thing here is a sad thing because we're gonna talk about magnum Ta. Yeah, magham tas gonna get the championship March twenty third, nineteen eighty five, one hundred and twenty day run. He then loses to totally Blanchard and then once again defeats totally Blanchard and this was recognized and we're gonna I'll just fast forward it this in November twenty eighth, nineteen eighty five. I quit still cage match. He comes up with the win here, magnum Ta. Man, I'll just fast forward a little bit more. We'll put a book in end on this, because this is in my part, in my opinion, this is the end of part two of this title before we start introducing exciting characters like Sting Lex Luger, the next kind of generation. But magnum t hey, man, he was so damn good. And what happens here is Nikita Coleoff August seventeenth, nineteen eighty six defeated magnum Ta in a best of seven series for the vacant title. The title is vacant for attacking. Magnum Ta attacked the president of NWA, Bob, what is it is, geig Gigle? Yeah? Yeah, So he attacks him, he's stripped. Then he has this amazing seven series match between magnum Ta and Nikita cole Off. This these matches were amazing. So Coleoff defeats why then later on he's going to defeat while mcdanel and unify the championship, then the championships to be an NWA Heavyweight Championship into the US title. But man, this best of Series seven match, I mean, this is the the brain trust that was going on back then. Now this is when to your point of a little bit earlier cables now in full effect and now we're seeing this, you're watching it, you know happen in that studio and with the promos and all these things that have happened. But just think about it, the best of seven you have to be some kind of special one. Not to repeat a match, not to repeat this the story line or the way you're gonna tell it. Your emotions have got to change, your physicality has got to change, Your mentality's gotta change. And again it's one of those things underrated. Go back and watch Nikita and Magnum. Magnum was being built to be the next wrestling god in my from my understanding and what I know of the stories, and you know that getting to talk to people about it like he and especially Dusty, like he was being built to be the guy. So this is this, this seven, this set of seven was huge, and I was a big Nikita still end. But I was a huge Nikita san. He was a hey gosh mighty yes, yes up. So let me clean up what I said before. I think I probably made it a little bit confusing. So we just talked about this best of seven series match. It comes to an end on August seventeenth, nineteen eighty six. Then he defeats Wahoo McDaniel in September. Then that unifies the NWA National Heavyweight Championship into the US title. So yeah, so after this man, after this best of seven series that this is when the tragedy happens with magnum Ca. He was driving in his Porsche and the rain, lost control and wrapped the car round a telephone pole. Yeah, this is it for him, devastating. Yeah, yeah, he will never wrestle again. They questioned if he'll ever walk again. Right, this is this is a huge thing and professional wrestling. They saved his life. He almost died. Yeah, he was paralyzed for months. I mean, his entering career was over and like you just said, he was really being build And you go back and you hear people talk about this people being the wrestlers that are there. He was the next huge thing. Like you said he was, he was being groomed to be that guy, and that was one of the times as a as a fan, and I think for a lot of people as a fan, you're now you not only were you involved in what they did. This this crash and everything that happened to mag them really got everybody invested in. Now they're investing in the people unfortunate circumstances. But this is to me, this is still the building of wrestling and drawing these people into the you know, suspended belief and the believability of everything that's going on, because that's how strong the character Magdum was is. They knew he was being groomed, he was having these these matches, and then for that tragedy to happen, people are like, oh man, but a super super positive cat and everything he went through, and then everybody I've spoken to about him or spoken about him has nothing but praised for him and who who he was before before the crash and then naturally after the crash. But it's just amazing to just listening to the lineage so far, What's what's happened with? Yeah, I think this is a good place to stop given a little bit of a look into the future. I guess we'll say this WCW is going to it's going to become WCW. Yep, there's a couple of matches here we'll go over next time. Then this big transition happens. But like you just said, just think about some of the names we've talked about. We've started out with Harley Race, Johnny Valentine, Terry Funk, Paul Jones, black Jack Mulligan, uh Bo Bo Brazil, Rick Flair, Steamboat Sargeant Slaughter, Jimmy Snooka, Roddy Piper. Then Wahu McDaniel really has an incredible reign of time here that's five years after you know, chasing this title. And then we have Greg on sign Kevin to the play is this is so significant man in wrestling history, and this is a time just to paint the picture. It's regional. If you're northeast, like a Bill DeMott was, what all you're just reading these things, seeing these things. It's it's almost like folklore, man, like you're just hearing these great stories. You may not even be able to watch it. You know, we were so behind the times in the North to what was going on to your point, but it was almost like they made you had to learn who these guys were, because, like I said, all you had was the magazines. And back home in New Jersey, you had a Warner Wolf was the sports guy, and he would and Eyewitness news I think it was Channel seven, but he would dedicate a certain part of his sports show to updating people on what happened in the world of professional wrestling. So it was and he'd showed little clips from the garden and stuff like that, but we never got to see the South. So when that cable and everything came on. But to your point, it's just it was a regional deal and look how big it Yeah, yep, we talked about cable and it'll just get bigger from here. Yeah, as we go into this next part. But yeah, let's jump into a couple listening questions before we put a book in on this, I want to make sure we entertain their question absolutely. Bob Horton's cast love him. Jake the Snake Roberts has a podcast. Bill, I don't know if you heard the comments that he happened to say about Brett Hart over the last couple of days. No, no, I didn't, Oh, this should be good. So somehow it was broke down where Hall of Famer Jake Snake Roberts was asked to pick his favorite wrestler between Brett Hart and Shawn Michaels. This was his response, neither what for better performer? Sean Brett just gets dull at times. His interviews aren't up to part. I don't think to what they should be for what position he held. I think his interviews were poor at best. They were part of that era that quit selling things, you know, and just did everything. I will give it to that. He did wrestle a lot more than Sean Brett. To me, just a boy. I'm gonna get myself in trouble here. He just wasn't a champion in me there, I said it, neither one of them. That's live rounds right. I will say this. Jake's not the first guy to say things like that, and so but if you think about like Jimmy Hart, you say, the table is round, and so it always comes back again. So imagine what was said, and by no means in my taking sides or agreeing disagreeing, but imagine how they felt about what Jake was doing, you know, but then I think, I think it's has more validity coming from the guise of the same error traveling into the same companies and in those same circles. I think when they say stuff like that, there has to be a little bit of validity to it. I'm not sure. Listen, I'll play Devil's advocate and say, I'm sure Jake meant it to come out a different way. But Jake speaks Jake just like Bill speaks Bill. So sometimes it comes out different and people, you know, can misconstrue it. But I don't think he made any bones about it. I think he justified his position. What was the retort from Brett so far? I don't. I don't know. Will there be one, even I don't I think there would be. Here's the thing, Bret Hart was a great wrestler. He's a great champion. Yeah, he didn't need to do the things that Jake Snick Roberts was doing. The champion doesn't. Okay, So it's a television show, Bill, you have checks and balances. If there's great interviews happening in other rivals, that's great. It doesn't have to be like that on every single match or every single rival or every single I'm using the word rival, you know what I mean. This is television. There's checks and balances that happened. Bret Hart doesn't have to go out there and deliver an amazing interview every time. I mean, he just doesn't. He could go out there and have matches. So I think again, wrestling when Bret Hart was there was going through changes and get in Shawn Michaels and all that. I get that, but nevertheless, that's not what he had to do. Yeah, because you could now let's let's be really arrogant and throw Taker into it. He didn't talk, who didn't wrestle like Sean, who didn't wrestle like Brett. Right, So it's it's that changing of the guard. It's a changing changing of the business a little bit. And but to your point, everything back then wasn't cookie cutter. Everybody didn't have to be the same. They had different bodies, they had different hairstyles, they had different athletic abilities and everything. So listen, in sports, if you have a bad offensive day, but you're great on defense, you're having a great day. And so everybody doesn't need to be the best talker and the best worker today. I don't need to hear Gunther talk all the time. No. I mean, yeah, he's entertaining. He could need to hold his own, but I don't need to hear that's not I don't know. So it gets some more drama here To end the episode, fans, BigMan's Mustache wants to know what you think about some more drama. Okay, so Booker t and right Back have been going out of here. I just don't. I hate even like right Back, and I have a weird thing. Well, he used to be kind of cool on Twitter. Then he blocked me on Twitter when I was trying because he's constantly tweeting about how he doesn't get much engagement, and I was trying to give him advice saying, hey, like, and I was explain explaining the algorithm of Twitter, like literally explaining the algorithm of Twitter. Hey replies, get more will get you more engagement and get more views if you start an actual thread and you're replying rather than just retweeting. He just doesn't reply to people. Really, he blocked me. Then, I think beswick Man's Mustacht said that he blocked him too, because he started chiming in. So I'm really confused about that um kind of fell for the guy over the years. Man, he had a bad outing there in w b rough stuff with CM Punk, just rough stuff with the company of his name and all that. So I'm really not about talking bad about people, and I don't particularly enjoy things like this. But yeah, him and Booker t him and going at it. Right Back called him out for running his mouth and making clueless comments. So it was really talked about that they were going to publicly talk about thing on book or ts podcast. That was like the big talk They're going to air it out kind of I guess settle it once and for all right, it needs to be live and not recorded to play later. Book or T actually said the invitation is rescinded for right Back making demands for you to come to my show. There's a whole lot you don't really want to come and have a conversation. Here was right Back's response. Looks like vincemctman a triple hship spoken smart move. You're going to look foolish. You could come on my show anytime, live and face to face anytime, and any demands you have will be met for the conversation. Blah blah blah, I'm not scared like you. I'm not scared like you are because I have the facts. And that's where I'm going to leave it off. So they're going back and forward. Zitty here and mctman's mustache on Twitter, wants to know what you think. I don't really think anything about it. I think listen, I'm not Again it goes back to I'm not picking sides. I know what. Here's here's what I know. What people are saying has happened, right, whether it's on Twitter or whether it's on the dirt sheets or somebody's talking about in another podcast. So everybody, everybody knows what they think. They know what I here's the thing that bothers the T shirt. That's a T shirt right there. Everybody knows what they think. They do it right, you do it. That's T shirt number two. Yeah. But I I feel like when when guys um and myself included, everybody included. I don't want to use the wrong term, but I'm saying like this, and I'm gonna cuss for a minute. When you show your ass on social media, you're not doing it to show your ass, right, you're giving so to me, social media is like a text message or an email. You read it the way it's written. You don't know the feeling behind it. You don't know the the inclinations or what was really meant, right you you take it at face value. So when all these things fall apart and we start to have twitter wars, me, my wrestling mind always goes to first, it's a work, right, They're building to something that's going to happen, and I hope it is, and I hope they both draw huge ratings on their shows and things like that. I'm not a big fan of when it becomes the personal stuff. I'm not a big fan on bringing other people into it or giving And here's why I'm not a fan of it, because it gives the wrestling fan finger quotes for people who can't see what I'm doing the wrestling fan, it gives them more ammunition to further hate on, critique, on crap, on the business, the people that have paved the road, people that are coming back, and all these things. So as a as a group, I think we have to stop. Simply put, it does nothing for the business, right, it does waste some time. Yeah, book or T is I will say Book or T has done a lot for the business, A lot of respect for book or T. I don't mind right back, but man, I have a hard time time going at book or T. After all, he's contributed to the business. And I think that's Booker's point to it. And so I think the easy, the easy, you know, right, the low hanging feu fruit for anybody who's go. Let's go for what the people will understand, right, So tying Booker into the WWE and being told don't do it and you know, um, because it's clear and and so everybody understands the silver back. Ryan Reeves started his career with me. We share the same birthday. Side note, um, But I've known him for all his time. I have the I have the utmost respect for him. He's gonna his Journey's his journey. I don't I don't judge him on that. But at the same time, i'd say, and we said it, it doesn't belong on social media because then it for the people who have your back, they could think less of you or think more of you, right, And I think that's the problem. It gives people more options to have opinions and to get involved, and then the further stir the pot so I'm gonna I actually look at as a work in wrestling terms, and I hope they both draw a huge money when this interview comes. And if they do it that way, I'm gonna say it up front, I told you so. It's it's still wrestling and and maybe it's one of those best that of seven Twitter wars. So yeah, well we'll sum up that conversation. Yeah, so, hey, this is the end of the episode, but we should you should buy the T shirt. You're the the quote on the T shirt bell Let you say it again. It relates to this to me, because use your energy towards something more beneficial. Do what you say, say what you mean, mean what you do. And for the first time ever, Jeff, I'm gonna say this, for the first person who's listening to this who can send you every name in the order that you mentioned them and we did it on I will personally buy them a build them up T shirt. You're talking title reins. I'm talking the title rein part. If they give you from the beginning to where we ended this episode and you vouched for it, we'll mention them on the air and I will personally make sure they get the build them up and I'll sign it. I'll sign it and make sure they get it. Wow, I might, I might rig the competition to give me a signature. Baby, sell that thing like people are doing these days. Now, that's a heck of a thing, Bill. So yeah again, Bill's talking about the on jefft shirts dot com build them on Experienced shirt. All the proceeds will go to the foundation, which I am not even directly a part of, but I find myself passionate about. Yep. So again, Bill will be in the Wrestling Hall of Fame in Waterloo in July. What was the date on Nigan July twentieth through the twenty second. So you're gonna be anywhere in the area. Pick you up a ticket. Yeah, you'll see the likes of Bill and several Oh, it's a staff card. That's gonna be fun. Come out, say hello, listen to the round tables. And I'm a big fan of meeting everybody face to face. So and I'm holding you to it, like, if your schedule works out, we're having a good roundtable discussion at in Warterloo. You and I maybe, Yeah, there's the big dogs. Yeah yeah, if it's his mustache wherever you are in the world, please make your way to waterlou Iowa. Thanks for the questions as always people to submit them and just the conversations. We appreciate you listening. We're still working on the YouTube channel, getting that up and go, and the podcast is getting downloads. But yeah, I need to get better about the YouTube. But I did get a bunch of stuff on there and I'll continue to do so we'll get it there. It's just time. Bill. You know how life is, man, Yeah, And here's the thing. For years and you're like this, I know you are, and I've been like this. We used to not worry about the time. We had things to do. We gotta get them done. But now I'm glad we start taking life into consideration and sometimes you know, because the truth is you can get to it. We will get to these things, and the people know that. And as long as as long as you keep giving them content like this and we keep delivering, they're gonna they're gonna wait because they know when you say it's going to happen. But I'm glad you take that time, especially with them, with them babies, and as hard as you're working outside of this show, that you take the time, and life comes first sometimes and then we'll get to it. But it'll be there. Man, We're not We're not going anywhere, backs peak behind the curtains. I also just recently, and I just I just my contract ended with wish TV local news network Circle City Broadcasting managing a network of thirty plus podcasts and I have about five or six on my own. So yeah, man, who, I'm always involved in the podcasting game. You can go to Jefftowns and dot media to check out my stuff. Of course, with this podcast, we have build human dot com to build him on. Experience is available everywhere you listen to podcasts and watch them. Bills on social media is build him out. And I'm at podcast bother And so next week we'll be back and we will dive over to the US title. And I'm just so freaking thrilled. Bill. Yeah, thank you for joining this time with me every week. Man, Yeah, thank you, brother. This this is really good. And now we're going deep. I like when we're going through these you know, series of episodes where we talk about this. So it's really good. Great start. As always, Thank you so much for everything you do, brother, and and uh, I can't wait till next week. Thank you for the experience, and thank everybody for going along with us or the build him on experience until next week. Keep being you, keep being great, and don't litter and don't throw your stuff up the window. Ya Jeff Townsend. Media sees you. Good night. And the question is do I stay here? Will you be back? Are you gonna come back? Will you be back? Are you coming back?