What's she gonna do? Brother? When Jeff Townsend media runs wild on you. Molly all right, you heard it, he said, all right, And I'm gonna say alright, alright, alright, Welcome to another episode of the Build Demon Experience. We couldn't record last week. I had a little bit of me we me be and Jeff Townsend pronounced pal. I had a little bit of problems with the electricity in the neighborhood, so we had to share another episode from the I'm gonna call it the Vault because it sounds cool when I say the Vault. I like that the Vault. Bill, you talked to some pretty didn't wasn't the best sounding quit quality audio and stuff like that, but you had some cool conversations back in the day. Yeah they Yeah, I agree, that's like. Uh, I was just learning that you could do all that stuff on with microphones and stuff. But and again, I didn't have you who understands all this. It's just me. I plug in and go okay, um. But yeah, man, you're plugging machine too. Bill. It takes some work to cut out the network. You plug that constantly, you're like a You're a guru at that. Yeah, but I had. That was my thing, and I know you and I talked about it some time ago. That was my deal, Like I wanted to after all those years are coaching and traveling, just meet people who did similar things or something like that. There's there's a lot and then you know, I don't think we've stretched the surface yet, but there's a lot of good conversations. Meant a lot of really cool people that I actually stay in touch with today or drop me an email or something and say a little But yeah, man, it was it's a lot of fun. I enjoyed. I enjoyed. It's a really fine line when you're because you know, most likely that most of the people listening probably want to hear wrestling stuff, right, But it's also like the other side of us is just like the things that we are also interested in. And he just hoped that you know, is able to kind of go across to the audience. So when it does, it's pretty cool. Yeah, it's pretty cool. So Bill, Yeah, like I said, I was out power for a few hours last week right during our recording time. What have you and up to with the foundation and just the giant of a son you have that's going to be a professional baseball player. Here he already looks like a professional baseball player builds. It's unreal, man, you know, we're proud of him what he does. Like he just we just saw some friends this past week and they were asking. They've been in North Carolina for a couple of years. They were down here and we were a church with them, and one of the girls was asking, is he going into his junior year or senior year and he just smiled and said, well, I'm gonna be a freshman. And if you look at graduated middle school. He graduated middle school. But yeah, we're supposed to be in Nashville this week, all this past week, and because he's played for New Balance, he was chosen to be, you know, playing nationally for New Balance. So the whole thing was the Future Star Series was they took the top two hundred kids for graduating class of twenty twenty seven. Well, this was the week he's been waiting for. He's been working art at it. He's excited to go. The night before we leave, as we're packing, get an email and the weather has been so bad in Nashville they postponed it until July. Like bad as in the weather was really bad. They were expecting some tornadoes and stuff that we're going through the area, so they just aired on the side of you know, safety, which we appreciate, but it messes up my schedule because now when egos in July, I'm off with the Foundation speaking in New Jersey, so I'm gonna miss the biggest areas to date. But the Foundation has been really, really busy. I had an earlier presentation today. We worked very closely with the Universe's Central Florida Police Department, and so when they have new recruits or a new class comes in, I go and spend an hour with them in their training and uh, you know, we talk life and we share carry's story things like that with them. It just, you know, kind of a welcome to the community and here's here's what's going on. And so it's, uh, it's been it's been busy. We're getting ready that we're doing a lot more traveling outside of FLOORA this summer, which is rare for us. Usually schools are out, so we usually slow down. But it's it's been very busy. So we're you know, like ib would say, we're blessed and uh carrying out we go places and talk to people and we come holing and we give it again the next day. I like that, you say, and I got both of you. Yes, I like that. I yeah, I always say it. And like I said, I just get to be her voice and she'll she'll guide where we're supposed to go. Um really busy. Oh I'll tell you something that was cool. Now that's it. I feel like I'm having the best summer of my life after after fifty eight years. So we've talked about the Hall of Fame. In July, Yeah, going going up to Waterloo, Iowa to hang out with like legends and believe it or not. This month June, Central Florida, I was named one of the Men of the Year of Central Florida and it was a really cool spread in the man I'll shoot you the I'll shoot you the article. Just and and I'm sitting here always thinking like you know, as a parent, as you know, we try to figure out how what we can do to put our kids in the best lanes of life and all this stuff. And here I got I'm looking at my I thinking all the time, like my kids are putting me in front of everybody. I think it should be the other way around. But they're they're there. You know, I would say my family is amazing, so to two big dollars this Summart. So I'm I'm I'm walking, you know, I'm king light Lately, I feel I feel really possitive about everything that's going on and good area of the river we're traveling right now. Well, your family has to be great to put up with you. I mean, let's be honest, brother, No king in. I think my anniversary's coming up this year again, we better get that lined out blade. But no, So, yeah, we talked about it. The Hall of Fame. I'm still trying to figure out if I can get there, that would be awesome. Is that? Are you just going there? Is a wife going there too? Or like, what's the plan? Is everybody's going? Casey, Billy and Lacy are coming. Um. The good part for us is my in laws, Lacy's brother still lives in the Moines. Then that's where Lacey's from. So we get to go to Waterloo hang out Jerry Briscow and Less Thatcher and Hot Poo and all these all these She's just legends. And then we're gonna spend a couple of days in the Moine with the family, so we made it like a little uh mini MANI vacations. Wow, that's awesome. I'm gonna have to crash it. Yeah yeah, come on, man, more than Marrier. Back to the Foundation, of course, I do want to mention the I think we've had one one. I don't know who bought the T shirt, but we have had somebody buy the your T shirt on Jeff t shirts dot com, which, of course the proceeds will go to the foundation that we're talking about. So one person, we don't know who you are out there, you did buy it. That's all the traceability I see right now is one. No, that's that's all I need to I actually need to get on there and get one, as you can see right now. But if I have my other there's other T shirts there as well. You're rob the Austin Maries Tiny turn Up Eating Man Championship T shirt that he was crowned by a Jim Cornett. Uh yeah, other fun, lighthearted things as well on the website. But seriously, though, check out the build them at foundation. Excuse me, search build them on experience on Jeff t shirts dot Com and you'll see the T shirt in which all the proceeds go to your foundation. Bill also is one of your favorite quotes on the T shirt. I have to get my shirt this week too, because I'm I'm not going to Waterloo without one of those shirts on. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I've got to give you the route. Yeah. Yeah, we've got to give you like a blazer, you know, like customiz come on. I love about that. My wife's still trying to convince me I shouldn't wear shorts. Well, she might be right on that one. Bill. It's a it's a big day, got good legs. So yeah that congratulations again, Bill, and everything else that you're doing, I think it's I think it's awesome. Man. And here at Jeff Townsend Media Headquarters to continue to crank out podcast. This is one of my favorite. Man. I love to talk wrestling, so I'm always excited about this one. You're a busy man. I don't know how you keep track of it. You're a busy man. Sometimes I don't keep track of it. I think maybe that's the secret to it, which is still I don't even know how you keep track of the day. You got some of your schedules, like like forget the dad. Forget you have but you know, a full time job. Forget all that stuff. This stuff you're doing, that's why I always gonna you know, as my buddy Mark Henry says, I gotta give you your flowers. Man, you're do an amazing job these podcasts. Not only sound rate the Ardgrey much appreciate you. All the money I make from podcasts seemed really Yeah, a large portion of it. I'm gonna be honest with you. I do put it back towards my daughter's education. Yeah, in the future, So we have an account that I've set aside and trying to better their lives with additional income. So yeah, that's any support always is appreciated. That's awesome. Man, that's a foundation of its own. Putting kids through college, you know that, No, kiddy, no kidding, I'm hoping this My third one puts himself through college. It's uh yeah, no. Yeah. He looks like a machine out there. He's like a men among boys. But of course, you know, still emotionally, I'm sure you're still raising a boy. So yes, thank goodness. He reminds me of that every day. So I'm just sport tea. Yeah, I'm just fourteen with my four hundred pound dogs. I love it when you share this pictures. All right, let's let's let's talk about Okay, so we do have some us and stuff. We'll go ahead and get that on the back end. But where we left off last time it was a deep diving in the United States Championship. I'm trying to okay, I think I have exactly where we left off. Here we were talking about and nearing the end of what I was saying, part two of the title itself. We finished up with, uh, magnum Ta, I believe, right, and yes, yes, yes, so the tragic accident, of course, and then we'll go ahead and kick back off there. So of course magnum Ta and unable to wrestle again, unable to compete and for that title. So one of your favorites, I believe, didn't you have you have? You have? Didn't say that you loved Nikita? Oh, huge, huge fan and forget getting to meet him later on in my career. Assist was kind of over huge fan. Oh, Like I thought he was one of the most impressive physical, physically looking guys in the rainy time. I mean he was just he commanded your attention and then you bring out that the way at all yeah, big fan. Yeah, absolutely, So we're kind of coming to a point here in the conversation where we see a little bit of a shift to the next generation of individuals and the next person that comes up after First of all, Keat almost has a title for a year. Yeah, so that's a good run with a title here, and then he actually a still cage match with Lex Luger. Lex Luger at the Great American Bash July eleventh, nineteen eighty seven. Lex Lugers the next champion. So again here we talk about we start seeing the introduction of Lex Luger here during this time period four Horseman, YadA, YadA, YadA, Lex Luger comes into the scene. Who's a major player to moving forward on both brands. Yeah, not the most gifted technical wrestler, but nevertheless, like you just said about physically, you talk about another guy this the physical presence of Lex Luger was great, and I thought, you know, and I will say one thing about Lex Lugger. I thought the matches and stuff he had with Flair, they really were able to book around his weaknesses and he was able to have absolutely great matches. So what I found about as my wife's trying to sneak by me in the back, what I was looking down. If they don't if I don't look, they don't exceee me. The thing that I learned more as I got to work with lex and being the same locker rooms and things like that. Like, let to your point, I don't know if he was the best technically. He was an athlete. He looked a part. He was built like a rick, you know why. You know, he was just he was the the quick essential. That's how every wrestler should look. The thing that I felt like he was really good at was knowing his strengths and knowing how his matches should or should he go. And he stayed true to that, Like he didn't drift and go let me let me try and you know, let me hit the triple indy or let me do something you know that I don't do. He knew and I think he learned that along the way. I think he said that, you know, he came in with expectations and then they kind of got him, got him in the right lanes. But I mean, he was the guy who looked like and in later run right, he was the air appaired to whole coping with the body and the image of everything like that. So not only that, he's also very relative to this title because the next tier will really two and a half three years here. Lex Luker's a major contender with this championship and he's verily involved in it. So he goes on to hold the title for a one hundred and thirty eight days. Then Dusty Rhodes and him go at the still cage match as Star Kade in Chicago, Illinois on November twenty six, nineteen eighty seven. Dusty Rhodes comes out with a victory, and this is when I'm I'm going back to my what's this is kind of a trend of switching to new individuals in the locker room for this type, introducing new characters of the next generation. Dusty here, of course, from the past, had amazing matches going back fifteen twenty years for this. So after Dusty gets this thing, he doesn't hold it particularly long. It's four let's see here, one hundred forty one days. I guess that is long. That that's actually really long these days, right, Yeah, So Dusty Rhodes carries this title, and of course Dusty Rhodes if you had to, And actually somebody asked us the question as to who are your top five favorite wrestlers? Ask you and me, we've answered that question a million times. But Dusty Rhodes is in there for me. Yeah, you're talking favorite, and I'm not even breaking it down for anything else. You're just talking like favorite, my favorite. Dusty Rhodes is in there, So I think that's awesome. Here before he heads off to his WWF run, he's involved from the title picture here. Yeah, but moving forward, he does vacate the title. He gets it stripped, actually because he suspended for one hundred and twenty days for attacking Jim Crockett. Do you remember this storyline? Is this the Midnight Writer? No, this isn't where he comes to midnight? Is this where Yeah, he attacked Crockett? Oh yeah, yeah, yes, and they stripped the title from him. Yeah, knowing Dusty. The best part about this, what we're talking about right now, is nobody to beat him. They stripped him up it. He has a title for one hundred forty one days, which is certainly not a cup of coffee these days. But after a stripped they go back to this and you see this so much during these times with Crockett and Wa They're going to have a tournament yes to crown the next champion, which I love because you don't really know how it's gonna end. Like I could have probably predicted recently that seth Rawlins was gonna win. That that kind of seemed like a given. But nevertheless, you know you're able to get some good matches out of it. So that's the case with this tournament. And it all comes down to a which is also interesting. Right it's a house show in Houston, Texas. On May thirteenth, nineteen eighty eight, Barry Windham defeats Nikita goal off that we just talked about in the tournament file in the tournament final to win the vacated title. So man, we're talking about Barry Windham here now, man, and and now like to your point of part two of this. Now you're seeing the names and the faces change, but you're gonna see them be players that this is that title, and this is how the conversation started the United States title. In order to be in that picture, you had to be a player or be considered the up and coming next big thing. And Barry Wingdam's proof of that. So gifted it is, there were like, I don't even know if that guy had to lift a weight, No, he should just be as incredible sentence, natural athletic ability and just you know, we hear a lot of people used the true well he's got it or she's got it, he had it, you know what I mean. It's the eighth has changed. I think over the years, Barry Windham was one of those guys like he was just gifted. He knew what he was doing. It's like when he was born, it was in his DNA, right, that's what everybody says, like that who just had a mind for the game. But look where their teachers were and look look at what's happening now exactly. I will say he's one of the most talented ever. Probably didn't reach the heights he could have. Okay, I'm gonna say he definitely didn't reach sites he could have, and that that they had him come back as the Stalker. Do you remember that ww has such terrible w WF had such terrible gimmicks. Then yeah, this was another one. My gosh, he hunts he's going to be the stock anyway. Yeah, so he actually has a pretty good at grain here. It's for what's a look, two hundred and eighty three days. And this is also why I've deemed this period part three. And the reason I say that is because it's also a transitioning to wc W right, So that's a significant change for that organization. Would you agree with that, Yeah, because you were going from the NWA right to what was wc W two crop. Yeah, and then now we're trans forming into WCW. The thing's still going back to it while they were on TV and again not up north where I was from, but down south. So now that's the biggest wrestling shows to watch because here's guys that we never heard of before and now you're getting to see them like on a on a late Saturday night. It was an early Sunday morning up by us, you know, but these guys were getting introduced. You're like, Wow, this title was seen more than the World Heavyweight Championship on TV's and being defendant all out. Like That's the thing that's really intriguing to me over the years is the United States title was defended at all these things on a regular basis, and I think we touched on it earlier where you didn't see Flaire defending. We saw Flair on TV a lot, but we didn't see them always defending the title. And so this this was the WA title exclusive, like we talked about in the first part first episode of this NW exclusive titles. So you're right now it's television time and with that bill, this is also the trend where you're not going to see this title change in the house shows except for maybe a couple times and the rest of its time moving forward, this is a marquee match title and now they're at pay per views mostly you know ORPE delevised. That is kind of a trend that we're also seeing the ends with this era. You have WCW along that comes to different television things and it has an impact on this title for sure. The bookers some of the greatest stories I was hearing who was in charge and had the pencil and so a top guy felt that this guy was the next guy. But the booker wanted this guy, so they would literally have bets, literally monetary bets of five dollars a dollar. My guy is gonna get over your guy isn't okay, Well, let's find out. We put you know, so that was the difference in I think in the in the booking ideas and everything else is a change in wc W. There was like a changing on the guard behind the scenes as well. Correct and we'll get to that. We'll get to the moment when there's that exact split. So Barry went and where we talked about Barry Wyndham, Lex Luguer defeats him after two or eighty three days. Lex Luger's back again. In the title picture. He holds it for seventy six days and it wrestled wore May seventh, nineteen eighty nine in Nashville, Tennessee. He had The next champion is Michael Hayes as a singles competitor free bird Michael PSAs Dodd right coming from going back to that back to the territories, right who was super Ovary Texas and all that everywhere with but now he's going to become a mainstream player. So he only holds the title for fifteen days. This is a house show where Lex Luker actually picks up a win on him goes on to hold the title for five hundred twenty three days. He did defeat Michael Hayes at a house show. However, this was actually used for televised was aired as NWA Worldwide Wrestling on June tenth, nineteen eighty nine. So five hundred twenty three days Lex Luger's going to run with this title. Significant, that's a long time. We talk about the stuff with the Roman rain these days, and a Lex Luker had this title for quite a while and then he loses the title to Tan stand handset excuse me on a Halloween Havoc pay per view October twenty seventh, nineteen ninety in Chicago, Illinois. Work full into the pay per view era. Now where WCW's finally got on board, right a Wajo Crockett's whatever you want to word at this point finally got on board with this whole pay per view thing. And yeah, man, what are your comments about mister Hanson, Well, you take stay in Hanson from like, I think a lot of people who are fans of wrestling don't realize how much he wrestled in the States. A lot of people know Stan Hanson as being the biggest guy jing in Japan, but Japan guy. Yeah, But the fact that it still goes to the caliber talent that keep getting involved in this Stan Hansen is a monster of a man, right, chaw chewing rope carrying. Everybody runs from all this stuff, and now he's and it goes back to that TV thing for me in the pay per view, like so many more people getting introduced to it. But to me, everybody who's held this idol has legitimacy to them before, even a lot of them before. They have the United States Championship and now stay in Hanson hold it. So now who wouldn't want to mean you go back to previous? So Stan Hanson had a run and wwwf Yeah, and he was actually in the title picture, right. He had this pretty cool feud with Stan Martino and he actually broke his neck dairy in the match. I believe it was like a power slam or something that bodged. So after that it seems like he goes out and he really starts with this amazing journey in Japan, like he said, yeah, because you can pull up great what I considered great big man like Hanson against Andre and and all these things. But you know, people like the the newer wrestling fans Stan Hanson all Japan and they fight. But everybody should go back from a big. I'm a big believe. We go back and watch some of the stuff we're talking about and you have a different appreciation then stands and being such a monster figure. Now East United States Champion, this title continues to be the focal point of of the wrestling business. Absolutely so. He Actually there's a Texas bull rope match against Lex Lugers Starcade in December of nineteen ninety in Saint Louis. Lex Luger picks up the win. After this, this is when the official split happens in WA and WCW, and this is when the title is actually officially renamed the WCW United Heavyweight United States Heavyweight Championship. So this is when it happens. Hey, we got Lex Luger back in the picture. Man, right, here's it. Like I said, here's the here's the future of the business. He's carried it. He's holding the torch. You have hulcog in America, then you have Lex Luger America. Theme. Uh definitely went along with the theme perfectly. They had they had an answer. WCW had an answer for bids. But during this time is when we see a push of mix. Mister Lex Luger and he has to vacate the title because he wins the WCW World Heavyweight Championship. We talked about this in the Bill Goldberg episode. It seemed more often than not there for a while, you could win this title than move on and get the next. When that happened, you dropped the United States Championship. And that's what happened here. And now we're back to is this another tournament? You know it? I will say one thing, So let's touch up on what we just said a little bit. We don't just let Lix Luger go get defeated. We find a loophole out of it. They did this with Roman Range recently. He had two titles. Bill, what a WWE's approach to the situation was, we'll give him new one. We'll give him a brand new one title, so therefore hit we never have to say, like, what didn't he ever dropped that second title. It's like it never happened. Now that's the thought, I guess. Nevertheless, So yeah, you're right, Bill, A good old titlement tournament's cooking up here. Old school book there. Let's see the tournament starts in July of nineteen ninety one, and it comes to conclusion in August twenty fifth, nineteen, nineteen ninety one, in Atlanta, Georgia. Sting, Yes, that's all right. Sting defeats Steve Austin in the tournament final for the vacated championship, stunning Steve, stunning Steves, then stunning Steve, and then then now we're now we're gonna see the side note, right, the emergence of Sting's famous run and popularity. And to me, he's one of those great essential guys. When he held that title, he he was a champion. People knew it. I mean, I probably believe he never needed to be a champion anyway. He carried his own weight, you know, all that stuff, respectfully to him, I mean the biggest respectful. He never needed a championship. His persona, his character, his um, relationship with the audience, everything he was, he was gold. But now again, if he just keeps solidified how important and what it means to be the United States champion. Still, this is the beginning of I kind of calling it like the beginning of Sting. There's obviously a second half of Sting where he gets his title again, and we'll get to that people. I saw this tweet the other day, people are debating what is your favorite Sting? I love the Sting around this time. I love the movie The Crow, and I thought that was such a great creative process of repackaging Sting because I don't at that point in time, you can't pull off what he was trying to do in nineteen ninety one the wrestling. It changed the landscape of wrestling. It change. But I love this sting Man Surfir Sting is my favorite Sting one because as as a as a young fan, you know, a fan, and then getting to work with that Sting amazing. Yeah, so I'm a big fan that that's my favorite. Ready addition, but to your point, there was there wasn't a lot of unless you made him the Berserker or the Repo Man or something like that. What would be the best way to do it? To your point, that Crow was the best way to see the you know, the resurgence of Sting. But my favorite Sting is Surferson. Did you ever see The Crew? No? Good movie? Good movie? I never I never did see and you would think being around it for all those years, I at least have interested in it, But well, it's I mean Bruce Lee's sons in it. Yep, that is the film in which he died during the filming. But it's a dark movie. But good. H a redemption sort of movie that you know, the people have done him wrong and sacrifice his own well being. But nevertheless, h yeah, cool theme. He had to do it then, but for now, Yeah, he is in one of my favorite sting modes. My favorite sting mode right now holds the title for eighty six days. At Class of Champions and Savannah, Georgia, November nineteenth, nineteen ninety one, Rick Rude is the new champion. Bad ass or what listen he was to me? He was soft spoken, he was he was bigger than I think people knew, like his his size and his physique when he was put together, like he had negative body fat. But he was a powerful like he was a he was a world championship caliber arm wrestler, but he was he was legitimately you didn't want to upset him. And again I've never seen it. All I can do is go off of what I've been told by people who have seen and is like, he's so unassuming, but he's a he was a bad man. But I true, sweetheart, I enjoyed it. But there there it goes. Here comes another body the character way different than sting And so now we keep seeing like I'm I'm gonna that's my thread for this whole US title up to a point. But they were right in a time where everybody who's involved is the next big thing. Of course, that he's another individual that died away too early. Yeah two or the age of forty good Man, yeah good Man. Yeah. And there's a lot in your community bill that that happens with and accidental overdose I believe in nineteen yeah, but definitely. And he was kind of like a Sometimes it's like people had a hard time knowing what to do as far as booking. It shouldn't have been so hard, but it seemed like they just struggle with booking the guy. I mean, I don't understand why, but it's cool to know that he did have this title ring he yeah, yeah, I agree with you. I don't know, and but it means what I ever questioned that people who add the pencil in because they were all Jesuss. But you look at you go, why should it should have been that hard? But I think there was a lot of why I can make him miss or I can make a map, you know. So yeah, but it was cool to see him get involved in this and then naturally the progression of his career and the things he's done are amazing. But I go back to everybody who's in this picture is a not just a player for the moment. There are main players everywhere they go. Yeah, and this is not I mean, this is his title reign because it goes over a year. Billy three hundred and seventy eight days, he's fit. He actually the titles vacated again because of an injury. Always interesting to see, particularly these days, how they're what they're gonna do with the title when somebody gets injured. Well, I think of enough people have now caught onto it and kind of holding everybody to the fire of what happened to the defense every thirty days, right, Yeah, so old school, they held you to that, whether it was an injury or whether they were leaving the territory or going to fence or going you know, to Jamand they held you to that thirty days. And that was the answer. I'd almost prefer to see it go back to that. Now ago, well they had the vacated again instead of just sitting and waiting and see what they do with it. See that in a w they vacated. That's a gun like thirty times preventuries as crazy match as they do getting hurt. There I go again. I just lost more karma on Reddit. What's paint the picture of what happens next? So Dustin Rhodes January eleventh, nineteen ninety three, Saturday Night, as the name of the event in Atlanta, Georgia, defeated Ricky Steamboat in the match that was originally made to determine the number one contender, but upon rick Rud's vacating the title, the match instead was made it to the new championship match aired on a tape delay five days later. But then here we go another guy that probably doesn't ever get enough credit, but he should, Dustin Rhodes, who's still doing it at the same level now. But I thought he kept getting better and better, especially there at the end of gold Dust. It was like so like, okay, I'll say one thing about the gold Dust character is incredible that he was able to make something like that work. But the really amazing part of gold Dust is not I mean, it's Dustin. But the amazing part besides that is how he's able to make gold Dust evolve with the times, because you can't keep doing what you're doing the Attitude era, he continuously evolved. Yeah, gold Dust, he did amazing stuff with book or t he even let's go down to the stuff he did with Our Truth was good television. I love that golden true stuff that like wrestling sometimes really misses the mark on the comedic part, but with Dustin Rhodes being gold Dust, that was their go to. He got it and he knocked and he got he knocked out the part. But I'm not going to take aside his actual skills either, because I thought Dustin Rhodes here's as himself was incredible. And this is where I go back to the the casual fans, even that the you know, the really deep deep fans. They shaped gold Dust for what five ten minutes on TV, but they forgot we had to go twenty twenty five minutes a night on the road and you can only do that entertaining stuff for song before you got to give the people that physicality. Dust till this day, with no prior notice, will deal with anybody and take you take you to the limit his knowledge and another guy, h Barry put him right in there with Barry Windham. The athleticism, that the knowledge, the way they comprehend it and is and to your point, the way he involved as gold dust. He Dustin will never get the credit I think he deserves. Um the beautiful part about it. She'll never ask for that credit. But he's he's an amazing talent. He's an amazing mind. And it's really cool to see, like, like, look, we're seeing Dustin Rhodes and stay till this day, still in the ring doing doing what they do. You know. It's yeah, I'm telling us how lucky aw is. I just hope they really take advantage as a mind like him being there. Yeah, yeah, I hope everybody's picking his brain making him mad so he needs a minute to himself. But um, yeah, he's incredible. And here we go again. Here comes now not only here comes it up and comer, here comes second generation. Here comes Dusty Rhodes boy, who's now the US chap really embracing it. Yeah, that's kind of dropped off later in his career, right, or only reference when it needs to be degrading to him? Right, Right? And look, look can he beat Yeah, right, ritty Steamboat back in it. They're some good stuff here because Dustin becomes he has a solid year here in nineteen ninety three where he's the face of this championship and he's having great matches. So this is how this plays out for the title to be vacated again. And man, they vacated this title so much when you go back and you really dissect this history, they're another title that's vacated so much that old school mentality. Nevertheless, let's break down here. The WCW border directors announced the title had been held up several weeks after Rhodes controversial title defense against Rick Rude that ended and Rude appearing to win via via pinfall and taking possession of the title belt despite both wrestler's shoulders being down on the mat. That vacates the title. This concludes on August thirtieth. The view that year in nineteen ninety three, Yes, Saturday Night when he defeats Rick Rud in a Miriam match for the title aired on a tape delay later. But man, so going back to the well here for this vacated storyline, and I don't I'm not I don't know the dirt sheets Amile this time, I didn't do that much digging, But I don't know if they just vacated it literally as heart of the storyline here, I'm assuming, but it seems like maybe there could have been an injury or something. I don't know. I don't think so, because it ultimately ended up being the champion. But they go back to the well again here on a vacated storyline, but not because of injury or anything. I don't think to my knowledge. That was always the out was if we can whether and again not not knowing one hundred percent because I wasn't there, but whether it was both sides couldn't agree or you know, couldn't come to turns with it, or who was going to do it? That was he answered to vacated. But then you still bring it back two players, right, and and then look at the stature of both men, Rick rooted Dustin Rhodes, both big, tall, scrappy, one built a little different than the other. But you had that, you know, you couldn't have put h five nine five ten guy in there with them right to make it legitimate. Those days are coming up later, yep, that we'll say one thing. So this title is vacated for several months of what I mean, it wasn't just like a month. But Dustin Rhodes was a mainstain player for WCW Saturday night program. Yeah this as you see him defend the title throughout it. He's involved in storylines on that particular show. Not a big year for this title at the pay per view always, but Dustin Rhodes is holding down the title and he's kind of like the working man champion here. Yeah, the world this is this is big. So he holds a title for one hundred and nineteen days after winning it after his vacated drops it to Steve austin two out of three falls match at Starcade nineteen ninety three. Stone called Stone called, okay, let's give him a run. We know he's got something offer And did they drop the ball after this or what? He's a loop? That was right before I gave in I gave me in ninety five, Yeah it was, but it was that, Okay, let's let's give him another run at it. But the names keep coming up, right, It's even though Steve didn't have a big, not as big a part in it earlier on as he should have. But here he is again. And then look at the players because where you know, side know where was lex Ter in this? Now he's part of a horseman, right, and so all the all the all the all the guys are tied up in storyline. So here we go. We introduced it back that way and then okay, let's give let's give this kid and running see what he can do with it. They're really taking this title and utilize it it on new talent at this point in time, which you often see the secondary title. But obviously prior, like we said, this is an exclusive title defended quite often, so it was more of a prime time title. But now it's it's being used as part and development for a lot of these people. So this is another time where it's to build Nutman and it's helping build their character Stone Cold. Also in my top five, by the way, uh Man, everything that guy did I loved from his time at WCW for this stuff he did in ECW, TOW, I loved all of them, man, the stuff he did in Texas. I was your believer, you know, with Chris Adams and then and those guys there. I was a believer and then I was a believer study Steve Right and him and him and Hillman and all the things. I was a believer. Yeah, he's gotta being your top five. I mean he did have to be with if you were smart, you'd love business. Yeah, he certainly made a lot of money for the business. I don't think many people can compare. Nope. And he's somebody where I've heard a few people say they're ocks not in there, okay, you know, but there's not people ever saying that Stone Cold isn't great. You realize that, like a lot of different wrestlers, you could catch crap by saying Rick Flayer. Even some people be like no, no, no, because of this he he wrestled, and but stone Cold, I don't think anybody's turning down. Even people crap on Hulkogan, Okay, who is an amazing money machine for program and what he did for pro wrestling. It wouldn't be around if it wasn't for him and Vince Vigimad. But stone Cold Mad, there's nobody. I've never heard anybody knocking him as being one of the best of you know, I've never I've never I've never heard a conversation. But part of a conversation or anything to where anybody would go, Nah, Austin was good. He just I don't know if he's in the top you know, top ten, top five people. I've never heard it because you get there's no argument for it. There's you could even present that argument with a straight face and try to make someone believe you were a fan of this business and knew what you were talking about. It it's you hear people crap on John Cena a couple of people that you don't. Art Stone colds one of them, the undertakers, the other, Yeah, you don't, you don't hear. It goes back to the person. It goes back to the character. It goes back to what they did with it. You know what I mean. It's it's what they did with it. Austin was Austin. To me, Austin is the same Austin as he wasn't Texas, except now he had to reinvent himself because he wanted to stick it up someone's ass. That's what That's what it comes down to. So that's who I feel like. That's when the phrase be yourself times ten it started coming from, because that's what he did. That was Steve dialed up a little bit, and now you know we have generations trying to try to recapture that's not gonna happen. Top five. Anybody who says different is watches too much soccer, football, foot and ball. So yeah, man Stuncold amazing. And then he has a two hundred and forty day title rain here and he stays in the picture after this. But you have a good nine ten months here with Steve Auston here on this championship. So Rickey the steamboat gets the side. On August twenty fourth, nineteen ninety four Class champions Cedar Rapids, Iowa Uo, we talked about that you're a steamboat man. He's back, baby, and they did great chemistry between those two every time, really did You're right? I mean really great chemistry. But then to your point where you said it earlier, this went from a mainstream this is who you are championship to now I feel like this is the point where it starts to become let's let's give them something so when they come out it's that much more like I don't believe that Ricky a dragon steamboat need the championship either, But now he's back and he's the champion. Now we're making people believe he's there's more to him than what there is, right, So I feel like this is about the time ninety three ninety four where the championship starts to become an ornament. Not not disrespectful, but it's not perceived as big as it was. That's a fair point because what we're about to cover, if you're able to follow all my mumble into the timeline, yeah, you're going to see this title start to get turned over a little bit more here. So, Ricky Steamboat has us for twenty five days, then it's awarded to Steve Austin in September of nineteen ninety four at Fall Brawl because Ricky Steamboat was injured. So and and then in the same picture he's defeated by Jim Duggan at that event. Yeah, for the championship. So it goes down as a rain I guess for Austin, even though it was all took place in the same fall Browl. So yeah, you're yeah the American All American Man Jim Duggan as a title at this point, but yeah, man, it was that's kind of a different storyline, Like here you go Steve Austin, you gotta drop it tonight. But nevertheless, it's it's something I reckon. Yeah, but I feel like this is the time when even though they I mean, I don't feel like the title was what was the focal point? It was the performer now, right, So he got back. So Jim Duggan, how do we make a bigger impact? Well, he doesn't. He doesn't necessarily have a run with Steve, but he beats Steve to become a United States Champion. So I feel like, in the back of everyone's mind, the United States Championship still prestigious, but it's not being preceived that way anymore. Right, It's just right now, it's checkers. Right now, we're just jumping square to square. Jim Duggan holds the title for one hundred days, loses it Starcade in December in nineteen ninety four to Vader, what's your experience with Vader? Uh? Yeah, I got to work I never got to work with Leon in the ring, but later on, and say goodness, prior to his passing, he spent some time with me in Tampa when I was when I took over FCW, and he would come in um as a guest coach for a week at a time, and um, like the kid in me, the the young wrestler in me. Like to me was big Dad Vader and Ben bigwell well stody I knew and Jersey boys and we were tight. And then here I am, you know, sitting in the office with Leon let them drop the knowledge and sharing the stories he had. And what a difference in Vader in the ring and talking to mister White, you know, and and the tie that will never end with me. I got my job because of me. I got my job in wc W because of em and Orndorf having that big fight, Invader getting fired. That's how I got my job. So I have such ties to Vader and such a respect for him. And I got to train his son for a little bit too, which was awesome for me. But oh well, another guy who I don't think people understood a wealth of knowledge right. He had a reputation of being a short fees guy, a hothead, the big word I hate, the bully thing and all that stuff. But he the knowledge he had and the knowledge he shared with people was really good. So but Jim Duggan at that time, the big, strapping, strong, healthy Jim Duggan, who was gonna You didn't want someone, you know, a disco inferno wasn't going to come and beat Jim Duggin. You had to bring in a bigger a bigger body, a bigger character, a bigger person, somebody believable, which is the only thing I think that still happens with this United States Championship at this time, at least it's believable. Who waited? What happens with it? I don't know, you know, it's now, it's far few between, and you know, look to your point you see at the pay per views, but here comes Vader, Vader takes it off a big Jim and and Vader at that at this point is up, Maine. When you're Vader is always going to have a tide to my childhood. I absolutely love the show Boy Meets the World, and Vader did a lot, did some business on that show, and it was great. Come in. He came in as the the dad of one of the protagonist of the bad guys. I guess you could say that one of the bad kids. He came in as the dad, you know, the old tough guy. As you said the B word bully. I thought he did great stuff there. So I was young, obviously I watched wrestling, and I get to see this guy on a on a kid's show. That was pretty cool. Man. The crossover, the crossover, Yeah, yep, and they had to be obviously this era of w cw WWF that starts to really become the thing a lot. Yeah. So here we go again. Vacated Championship. I can't even cant how many times. March twenty fifth, after eighty eight days, it's vacated. He was stripped of the title by Nick Bodwinkle because he hospitalized David Sullivan the week prior. So vacated again, Bill, Yeah, and but that right, that's the thing, And that's my point earlier of I may be onto something here where maybe business wasn't being done the right way or someone didn't want to put someone else over. What do we do? We strip him of it? We vacated, We tell the people this is what we're doing. But now it's now we're used to it. Right now, it's oh, it's vacated, like now we're not shot so here this is the point of it. Now, it's just it's just something to build up the next guy, you know, it's it's not it's not what it started out to be, and the transition is not getting better now in my opinion, it's getting And again it's not against the people that are holding it. It's the what happens, Like if is anything in Jim Duggan's eighty eight days is United States Champion at that time? Is anything memorable except the loss to Vader? That's that's my point. And I say that for everybody who's dropped it or had the vacate what happened in between what we'll say Vader had some great things happened in WWF after this. So yeah, yeah, dominating force that continued on past WCW. Yeah, they're gonna vacate it. So Sting at the Great American Bash June eighteenth, nineteen ninety five date in Ohio, defeats me in the tournament final for the championship. It's not full out transition that it's not scroasting, But these are Stings, you know, an end of that gimmick that he had before. And we just I just dropped the name Meing by the way, me what year was that nineteen ninety five? Eighteenth? Yeah, Yeah, this is where you start to see the evolution of of Sting in many faces of ming ha Tu. Yeah, you know five years prior, right, he's doing stuff. This is his next Sting will have a five year run after this till WCW and right before that. But that's incredible and this is just the beginning. So we'll move on. Okay, one hundred forty eight days as a champion. So then there's a crossover pay per view bill. I don't know when did you come in the picture in nineteen nineenty five, because what happens next is there's a crossover with um new Japan Pro Wrestling event. They have WCW World in Japan in Tokyo on November thirteenth, nineteen ninety five. A Kinsukia Salasaki is armors center, right. So yeah, I don't know why I said that Sazaki gets the title for forty four day, but do you I don't know when he came into picture here, but there was do you remember this crossover event? Yeah? This is this is right when I when I was coming in, so yeah, I remember it, and that was the big This is now the turning of WCW becoming a bigger entity, and you know the partnerships with uh and the Japan and and really starting to bring We'll show you how good we are. We're bringing other stars in, you know. Um, but I yeah, I remember because Kensky was a young kid then he was he was a kid. He was probably be I don't think he was thirty. Yeah, it's uh yeah, he wasn't thirty. He was just under thirty when he Yeah, and he did good work. It was kind of that was always the kind of as they wanted to groom, as Japan wanted to groom their next stars. That was the relationship where they'd come over, get over here, you know, work with guys. They've helped them get over and then when they went back home they were, you know, larger than life and all and all that stuff. So when he came over, it was good. Um and again it's it's you know, now now he's gonna he's gonna have a little run with it. Right fast forward ten years he's also went in uh MMA matches. Yeah, as you see that a lot with him Japan guys, don't you She's well, that's that's how you you know back then, because I was offered twice to fight in the cage until I heard what I was gonna make and then what my opponent was gonna make, So you already knew you were going to do the favor by what you were gonna make. One gets to making seventy grand, They're gonna pay me five grand on my day off to go fight in the cage. No thank you, But that was that was the big thing back then. That crossed over with the MMA slum Yeah, definitely cool. One Man Gang So this was actually he won in a post pay per view dark match at Starcade World Cup in nineteen ninety five. This story gets confusing, So One Man Gang, the matchress restarted and he actually Sasaki regained the title, but it was never really acknowledged by wcworn WW. So One Man Gang wins, the matches restarted and he's defeated, but it's never really acknowledged. The One Man Gang comes out of this as a champion for thirty three days. That is confusing as hell, But yeah, everything I just read is correct. Yeah yeah, and I had to be because without knowing the exact iroline, and that's when he went back. Maybe that's when New Japan didn't think he should be, you know, doing favors for you know, certain people, I mean, all those things get flights. Yeah, it was kind of weird for that to happen. I could see something like that happened, and you know, if it was back in Japan again, Yeah, but it was just a Nashville, Tennessee. But nevertheless, that's what happened. So One Man Gang, your experience with One Man Gang, love him, Big George love him. Another guy. I met him on the tail end of his career, my my brother in the Dungeon of Doom. The car rides I had with with Gang and boss Man and Ming and Barbarian the five mothers in the car was a sick time at itself. But Um, Gang Love Safety's great um appreciated time. He had a great get and he was a big scary So I was about to say that Bill, you are a big man. This man's legitimately six foot ten big man. Yeah. He not often and even at my right old age of of gonna be fifty eight, I'm not often intimidated. Big Man Edie just spoke soft and it was like he almost was like daring you to see if you could make him raise his voice, which I never heard. But he was a big, imposing, big imposing Catman thirty three day title reign here Kevian Ann's the next Champion at Maine event on January twenty ninth, nineteen ninety six in Ohio. Man Conan's another guy that you just can't watch WCW and really gather everything that he's done. So he goes on and he does stuff, and TNA was great with Conan. Stuff he's he's done for the whole Mexican wrestling community is just astounding. Yeah, but this guy's mind for the business is through the roof, and if you're just watching him during this time period, you're like, all, he's good, But it doesn't do respect for what he's done for the industry. And I think I hope more people realize that after his amazing Hall of Fame production that he did for ram Masteria year now one time I feel in wc W, did we ever experience the tone in that the world wanted to see whatever reason or after her And even when he got to the he got to you know what he put together, the Filthy Animals. I thought we were gonna get it because I was working with them at the time. I'm like, Okay, because I knew of Conan in Mexico. We were in Mexico. The guy walked on water. He was bigger than whole, whole Cogan, couldn't have couldn't have driven into a town in Mexico. That's how big Conan. But I don't think we ever got to see the true ability and everything. But you're right, his his his mind and how he thinks about things, and get him talking and get him invested in a storyline, get it. Nope, Nope, nobody better. You could definitely see why he'd be so beneficial to Triple A and stuff that he does today. Yeah. Yeah, And the reason I listened to that podcast is the small amount of time you get to hear him speak and comparison to the others. But great wrestling mind man and and not for nothing side note, he's funny as hell. Yeah, Like he has a ridiculous sense of humor that you wouldn't expect to be so sometimes so goofy, funnies hell, just an all around good guy. I know he's listening to our podcast, so i'd give him a big shout out to a dog. Yeah, and he seems like he's a straight shooter. Too many Yeah, I love I love this story about I love this story about how there's this locker remaining and it's and it's said like whoever wants to leave can leave. Raven gets up leaves, uh surprise. The Conan knows that he is so important to the other wrestlers from Mexico that have been brought in. Yeah, that he just holds down the four and not necessarily for the betterment of himself always yeah, but what he's done for the community, I just it's incredible. He's a good duke man. It's uh yeah, and again but speaking of the champion, it's just like another way to say, okay, now out, Now, this guy's important, but we never got to see how important he really was, you know, no, no, but that should not definitely take away what he's done for the industry. Rick Flair gets the titles, gets capture, captures the championship after Conan's one hundred and sixty Day Rain Bash at the Beach in nineteen ninety six in Florida, The victorier goes on at one hundred and forty one day Title rain here before vacating the title due to a shoulder injury. Rick Flayer's back in the championship picture. Man, we talked about this earlier, how you're gonna hear Rick Flair connect with this title again. Yea, they could come a decade later, but it will happen again. We are here now and here he is. And but then what happens. Look at the company, the direction that's going in, and all of a sudden, it's old school vacating. The gain might actually beat to an injury though. But you're gonna love this though, I know I do at least. So there's a tournament, there's a title tournament. Cook and once again baby, and this is when we are seeing all sorts of new breed. Okay. So on Starcade, Nashville, Tennessee, December twenty ninth, nineteen ninety six, Eddie Guerrero defeats Diamond Dallas Page in the tournament final. All the stars are coming to WCW and now we're gonna make them that much more important and that much more of the main street. And he comes in. You know, Eddie, bigger than like Mexico. Some people say his best run was ECW and that's where everybody knew him from, but I disagree with that. But here comes Eddie and now Eddie's gonna bring some legitilacy back to the title because we're gonna see the bodies now they're you know involved now going forward seventy seven day title Ran loses it to Dean Malenko at Uncensored in March nineteen ninety seven. This was a no DC you match. Dean Milinko man, talk about two great talents in the chemistry they had together wrestling clinics every night, just wrestling clinics, and yeah, just knew each other inside. Now there was a there was a whole castom all of those men like that. But Milito and Guerrero stelf was another guy that won't ever get as much credit as ever. You'll never get it. No, Eddie will go down with and get a lot of credit as deserved. But the Dean Milinko of the world should be. I just wish and hope that people that are listening or people aren't listening, somehow come across a lot of the great stuff that he's done. You gotta be blind to miss it if you see it. I get to go back to Waterloo. So here's to tie with the Malitos. Dean and I very close U knew the lineage of his family, but I'll be in Waterloo with his brother Joe, who's being honored. So Joe don't get the catch up and that I couldn't sit down with the bit. But to your point, Dean Maligal will never be appreciated for what he did in the ring and he will never be knobs for what he's done out of the ring. The people that are in this business now making millions and millions of millions of dollars can credit that to Dean his mind, the way he trained them and the doors he broke down, you know, to get that kind of money and that kind of opportunity. So another guy at a w as a senior producer that I just I hope all these stories we hear about nobody wants not nobody, a lot of people not want advice aren't true, because man, pick of that guy's brain to be incredible. Maybe I love Dan and then you go back to me to ald about your sense of humor. One of the craziest guys, just so dry, so quick, but the knowledge when it's time to talk business and get that done, he's right there. No nobody better than the Dean as Well Jeff Jarrett on Nitro on June nineteen June excuse me, nineteen ninety seven, after Dean heilds the title for eighty five days. Jeff Jaredson next champion. Another guy that I think is a great mind in wrestling, Jeff Jerry Well. And he's he's still telling stories that are amazing by the way. Yeah, I mean it's almost favorite part a w is when he's involved. Now, I mean a lot of the time he almost so part of he goes, well, why would you bring him in as an executive and put another executive on TV? Well, hell, who cares if he's an executive of a w BI the scenes he belongs on TV to say that he was an executive on TV, I didn't. I yeah, I don't know why they put that that brand on him. I don't know. That's a different that'll be a different, uh podcast. But Jeff, and here he comes. Think about when he came in, so he's read hot at the time, right, So now he's in because of what happened up in New York, and so here we go. I always like to believe that my parents named me after Jeff Jarrett, But fact of the matter, was he actually got started rest a little bit after I was born. But I'm gonna tell myself that maybe he took that name after you were born for a reason. Yeah, maybe he took sounds to me cheers, I like the next name we're gonna bring up here. I don't think we'll ever talk about him again. Probably likelihood's not very high, at least after seventy three days. Steve McMichael's the new Champion. Clash of Champions August twenty first, nineteen ninety seven. Football guy, politician, broadcaster, coach. He's done. He's done a lot of stuff. Man, wrestling fanatic, love the business, respected the business, Hurt you every time he touch, hurt you every time he touched. And I say that with all up because Mango knows how I feel about him. We've we've broken it read so many times in the child up you were in for a workout, you were trying to figure out and if you go back to watch some of it, it's, uh, it's awful. But but he that was there. So the storyline right at that time was Jeff and Deborah, right, if I remembered it correctly, So Mango had to have up some kind of payoff at the end and in the United States Champion. Yeah, and I just think it's cool how much stuff he's done. I mean, like just I'm interested in this check did it? I'm interested in this check? Did it? Politics? Politics? Did it? Broadcasting did it? Football? Did it? Plane did it? Coaching did it? Like it's one of those lies he's lived. It's like he just got to do a lot of cool stuff. Man, He's like a fairy tale, right, And to listen to him tell it, he had that same smile it's facing me. He just tell it because it's almost like he didn't believe it either. But look, look what I'm doing now. But he he was a smart man. He was a smart man. I mean it wasn't really really smart because he played for the Bears instead of the New York Giants. But other than night, he was a smart man. Short title rain Bill, it's only twenty five days. Yeah, thank you. Henny is the next Champion of September fifth on Nitro, Charlotte, North Carolina. Mister perfect Kurt Henny another guy that if you are a new wrestling fan, you might not know how great this guy is. You need to go check it out. He literally was mister perfect man. Yeah yeah he uh those of meg yets he did for Vince and stuff, you know it all. And I think that's what people know of, you know, mister perfect You go go google a man, go down the rabbit hole of YouTube and watch this stuff. Um going back to when him and Stotthol came in together where tad team partners and all these all these things. I love Kurt. He's another guy who falls into that that we just lost him to, you know, to shoot amazing talent staying with what we're talking about on our storyline. I feel like this is another example of well, let's give it to this guy and maybe they'll mean more. Like we're trying to we're trying to keep it relevant. I think is the is US Champions. But I and by this time I can say from experience, not a lot of people cared if they were the US Champion or not because it's the turnover so quick and and you know it's not defended. But now you got to carry twenty five pounds in your bag and you know, do the extra media. And I think that's where there was coming down to, Okay, let's put on some guys that we're really not doing something with that. We can do something. Yeah, I can't say enough great things about him. Diamondal's page as Starcade nineteen ninety seven. After one hundred and four days it becomes a champion. He goes on one hundred and twelve day Rainier and Man DDP later in life, a little bit newer in the actual physicality of the actual wrestling part of it. But just take it off. Man, there's there's another mind with the ball. Yeah, he's the quick to essential meaning of it. Give me the ball, let me run with it, because whenever they gave Dallas he excelled in it. To his own admission, what he started was thirty eight something like that, late thirties. Yeah, on a whim, because he knew the guys from the bars and because he was and Dallas is another guy. At this time, you don't really appreciate how big Dallas was six four, good build, solid straw, but he's a bit taller in six four. Yeah, so but there, so we were starting to see that, and now we see it just staying within the players. Now now it's that select jersey guy, right Dallas, Yep, absolutely, Yeah, I'm a big DV fan man. I loved watching him on television. Then he just got it so down to the little things. He got it and he continued to enjoy so much. He just kept getting better and better. And this is a time when wrestling is kind of changing, and he was evolving along the way also, but standing out and doing his own thing, doing things differently, not you know, and just such a creative, great mind of what he was doing. And with conviction, I'll say, like he didn't just have a pitch, He laid it out for you. He gave you the emotion of how this was going to go if he had if he had an idea for a storyline with view. By the time he's done talking to you and you're just talking about what he is thinking is you're all in. And that's to me. Dallas's biggest gift was believability because he was he was dead set on in like progressing and improving a storyline or or continually moving forward. He wasn't happy with just being part of it. You know there and you hear that a lot. Sometimes a lot of people were just happy to be there. Let me click my check and wings lose. Who cares all that stuff? Dallas was in to be the guy he became. You know, he had a he had a vision, and he was contagious. But people believed in him so much that when he said something, or he had a picture, story liner, whatever it was, they were going with it because they knew he was gonna do whatever whatever it took to make that work. We really started talking about the Mennonite Wars and stuff here, which I don't know if we've done the best job of explaining this. So this title has some pretty good stuff during the wars, honestly in ninety seven, nineteen ninety eight, and we're hitting upon that right now. So this title now goes to another individual that I think the guy was incredible, is incredible. Raven gets the title at Spring Stampede after one hundred twelve day rain by Damadowa's page. It was a Raven's rules match. So Raven man, if you watch this stuff that Raven was doing in East w h it was incredible. The stuff with Tommy Dreamer was incredible, and I we'll talk about Tommy Dreamer one day, I'm sure, but he just played that amazing role of that guy that he just felt for you're related to and Raven was this just bad guy, you know, uh, smart guy. Uh. They had some great storylines. I thought when they talked about his father and stuff. You know, it's amazing about Raven. He has these stories that he shares in his storyline about his father's alcoholic, he's beating him, and he is such a good bad guy you still disliked him. Just think about that, because if it's somebody else, you'd be like, holy crap, like man, poor guy. Yeah, no, wonder he could get the heat still man, Yeah, he to me, M Ravens just like he's a legitimate GIF right the IQ, his IQ is off the charts. But he that's it. He was so intellectual about his approach that he was. If you didn't know him or didn't they a person, he's almost he was just demeaning. You would bringing your dad about He's trying to explain like it was almost like a stupid are you listening to what I'm saying? Like any But he's the same along DDP. Radven had a vision. He knew what was gonna work for him and that, but he would fight you tooth and now. And I think that was the That was the thing in WC W didn't didn't work well for him, Eric Bischoff WCW. They didn't know what they didn't know how to use him, and he wasn't considered I think at that time. And I've heard it. I've heard it and said before, Scotty Flamingo, Scotty Polo. You know, he's been around and because the regime that was in there didn't think much of him then. So I don't feel like he got enough of an opportunity that he should made me shit have gotten or could have had, because I think it was already a perception. Okay, he was over in ECW. That's what we were doing. We were Robin Peter to pay Paul. Every week. We were taking somebody from somewhere that was getting over elsewhere. But it's so wrestling history is repeating itself. I know I'm long winged on this one, but this is what we're doing in that WWE and ad W. You're taking people that were relevant, bringing them in and not knowing what to do with them. So we're Yeah, that cycle continues. I think Raven was fell victim that in that category. That Yeah, I'm a big Raven guy. Yeah, Really, Doug his clause into that character. Like I said, he's so smart and he just you the way to do it. But he was a twenty four seven guy. He was like that twenty four seven. We talked about Raven and in this transition to what we're going into next, I felt like Raven did a lot of good for Bill Goldberg. I thought Raven verse Goldberg was great. I thought the flock for Bill well, he talked about this in the Bill Goldberg episode. I thought it was significant and good for Bill Goldberg to beat up on the flock. Yeah. I feel like Raven did a lot more for Bill Goldberg than people realize. But he's going to drop the title to Bill Goldberg the night after winning it. So what happens is Spring Stampede here is in Denver, Colorado. The following night Nitros and Colorado Springs, we had this repeated this Raven rules match right there were Goldberg is gonna come out on top. We talked a little bit about this more in detail for those in the Bill Goldberg episode if you want to go back and listen to that. But yeah, I think he did good stuff with Bill Goldberg man, and I can't say that enough. I thought it was I thought it was good business. And again I just think it was people's perception of who they thought he was on the card and things like that. And now I have Bill Promise saying I think it was an internal thing. I don't think it was fan related, right, I think it was an internal thing that that he kind of got handcuffed with. But I agree, I agree, Then I agree. Now I thought he did good business us with Bill, and I was a fan of the flock that was all talented, but that was you know, that was another one of Scottie's. You know, Raven and tone In have the same mind, two different, two different paths, but the same mind. Where Conan would at least work with you. Radville is gonna tell you you're wrong. I'm not doing it that way. That's the end of bit. But I think they have the same mind and they put together in good group. Oddly enough, Bill, this is also the time when we start to see the Tide's turn on the Monday Night Wars. This is actually lining up almost exactly with when WWF is able to take the lead again after this famous eighty three weeks WWE is able to take the lead. It might even be the exact week after this, Bill Goldberg saying, so this is a little bit and we'll power there. A few more will be done for this episode. Get a few questions knocked out, but this is starting to wind down, man. In this the company's changing. Bill Goldberg's gonna vacate the title because he wins the World Heavyweight Championship. We talked about that before, you remember, We'll knock out a few more here. Brett Hart enters the company. Now he starts to be a matches with Goldberg, which doesn't always end up going well with him later, but nevertheless, he beats Diamondallas Page for the vacant title in Salt Lake City on July twentieth, nineteen ninety eight. Brett Harts now in the company, has title for three weeks. Man drops a de Lex Luger at Nitro on August tenth, he has it for three days, drops it to Brett Hart at Thunder. This is that Thunder which never really went as well as it should have. It was kind of I don't want to relate it exactly to a like aw now, but they could never get the secondary show down in my opinion, But we're staying this thing flip flop here but but Brett Hart's He's also in my top five by the way, So Diamondas Page gets backs in the picture here on Nitro for thirty five days, Brett Hart for seventy days. So we're at the end of nineteen eight ninety eight. Now Ruddy Ruddy Piper gets the title on rollin Buffalo, New York in February. So yeah, we're with Brett Heart winning it from Diamon Dallas Page. He holds it for two months. That's when he drops at the Piper in February of nineteen ninety nine a Nitro. Thirteen days later, Scott Hall gets the title at Super Bowl in Oakland, California. Oh, man, this is a time where and we're not going to get to you this episode. We're probably gonna end this here. But man, there's a lot of going on here. And this was a period for the title that I feel like where things started to fall apart a little bit for me. Then as we returned. First of all, there was great names I just dropped, So that has nothing to do with this. Yeah, it's just the title didn't mean anything. There's going to go through this period here when we're when we're throwing a lot of crap at the wall and seeing if it'll stick. But this title stay tuned to the next episode that we're gonna talk about, because I loved when this title made a comeback with the likes of you, Lance Storm. I people had wrote WCW off by then. Not everybody obviously, but I think you could say that as a general statement, absolutely, and it had a return and had some good stuff happened with it that's probably not going to be recognized by many people. YEA. I feel like and you hit you hit the nail on the head that look at the names you met, Bret Hart, d dp's back at it, Roddy Piper. This was the time in the company where they're trying to take the most relevant people and put that title that really isn't relevant on them and trying to see what makes it stick the ratings wise, you know, drawn a house wise, things like that. But I gotta be honest. How do you take Brett Hart from WWF bringing to WCW and he becomes the United States Champion? That's what But that's when I felt like they didn't care. But now hopefully Brett can draw that attention back to us. How do we do it, we make him a champion, then you should have made him the champion. But things being what they were and are in WCW, it didn't work out that way. So you got Brett Art, Roddy Piper, this guy named Bill Goldberg. And yeah, by the way, there's Bill who vacated because he came the world champion. But this title now is is his? Like it's a prop and now they're expecting we're ending that part of this series. We're talking about with two of the biggest names in wrestling history, and they can't make it, you know, meaning something not that they And again to your point, it's not against the men, the character or the you know, the person. It's about the situation with this championship. We've literally see it go full circle. I will say a couple more things in note here. We'll pick back up at nineteen ninety nine. We record again, and nineteen ninety nine was a year where there was some cool things that happened with it, some things that were strange, and it also was a prop a lot of moving pieces and around this title because there was about a five year excuse me, four year period from nineteen ninety seven clear to Booker t in two thousand and one, where this title was never held more than three months by anybody. Right, So I just unloaded a dump truck of information on you on champions But I did that because it also shows you that's what was happening with this title. Then there's really nothing to deep dive into during all those exchanges I just said. And as we picked back up next week, we will also be starting off with in nineteen ninety nine, where, like I just said, this thing is being passed around, like you said, it's a prop. Yeah, yeah, there's there's there's no meat in the boat at this point. But this is a where we've gone so far. Well well done, man, You've just educated the hundreds of thousands of people that are listening to our podcasts right now. You just broke down the United States Championships and it's but it's a good build because you've got us going in the right direction. And uh, it's listening to it again this episode, listening to us we're talking about it and thinking back to all those things that keep popping into my mind. It's amazing. So I, for one, I'm a fan of this storyline. We had it with the United States Championship. Well done. Thank you, and they certainly aren't the tuning in to listen to me, also, thank you. Let's go to a few questions. Bob Orton's cast wants to know if you watch AW collision. I did watch a W collision. I may have missed the first ten minutes I think of something like that, but for the most part I was in the room watching it. So you didn't get to see pound kick off tonight. No, I And that was the thing why why I didn't rush to it because I didn't believe that was gonna be the opening. But I should have known better, but I did. You're gonna go back and watch that? Yeah? I did? I did go back? Um you did? Okay? Yeah? Did you like the promo? I liked the tell me when I'm telling lies? Yeah, But so for me, the differences instead of doing an immedias from it just in front of all those people. But again, and we've talked about it, and I've said it before, you'll come back, it'll be very relevant for the time being and then see where it goes. But I just don't know if that if that group of men that are in this thing with him are the kind of men that can make this make money for a long period of time. If they is that fair to say that? I can see him going along with it. Uh, but I'm not sure the counterparts in this dispute. Yeah, I'm not sure. I thought they did a good job of having a completely different theme for the show man. It felt like a wrestling show. Yeah, it felt like a wrestling show, did it? Not? So me being like that guy, Okay, give me that same thing next week, mean that same thing the week after. Great announcer career, great commentary. They're they're they're getting it. Yeah, they have the talent. It felt like a different show, didn't it, though, they're getting it like Smackgunner Raw. Don't feel that they're different, but they don't feel like different shows completely. Yeah, completely, it was completely like a different Yeah. Different. It was like an old fashioned WCW way back in the day, or Ring of Honor almost. It was like and everything made sense. There was no dancing and in super kicks or it go figured stuff. I hope I hope it. I hope that show stays that way. I really do so. Bob boards Cass obviously wondered why you thought of it. I liked every I liked it all I did. I liked that Samoa Joe and Sam Puck started off here and they didn't There was no hugging kissing right, Oh I missed you buddy. Its immediately like welcome back man. This is a competition. Yeah, like that that this is a fight. And I thought there was a big difference on Polte's face that was on Joe's face because smoke, Joe just look at you and you just don't you want through your face. But it's like, okay, good, you're back though, right on, we're gonna go. So yeah, it was no love fest. Yeah, and I agree with you. I think the show was open. I'm not gonna say it was the best show I've ever seen, but I thought it was a good show. It was a good I know, you know, it's a good wrestling show. It was a good it was a solid show. And that's why I really hope they stay with it that way, because that would I think it would help the other product as well. There were other shows and things like that. To have that separate reach, I think that I don't know if I've got to be able to catch it live all the time. Yeah, but it's definitely something that I've got I'll watch doing stuff. I mean it's gonna be on the TV. Yeah, Yeah, I like to make a FTR. I'm a huge fan. I thought that j Hye and j Robinson would They were great. First of all, they've been kind of booked strange up into this point. I thought they were a great heel tag team. I'm hoping that that's ftr's next battle those two guys, because they were doing some great stuff. I think FTR, both of those guys get it man, and I think they could do some good work with that. Those two other guys you put them when they started out For everybody who's listening to this, and we'll giggle when I say they came out as the Mechanics when they first paired up together many moons ago. Now you knew they were money. They just needed the opportunity, not an opportunity just to get on TV one time. They needed the opportunity to share their craft. You put them with anybody you want in my opinion, but i'd like to see him with Jay White and Juice. But I want to follow up on that thing that you said about them. I don't think they've been booked where I say, where the wrestling business right aw's taking guys that are well known bringing them in and their lackluster I thought Jay White's debut was mediocre at best. It wasn't that Jay White didn't body was expecting. It was just another entrance, so it was just another match. And but that's that's another show for us to talk about. But I agree FTR with those two guys would be great. I'd love to see FTR get with the Guns because the exchange of knowledge and the physicality and the athleticism. But they would learn so much. And but again, you got to give FTR the road. That's why these guys are going in Japan because there's no live events, there's no there's no things, so we're always hearing Mosley's and JPW and all these states. You know, So, but bringing these guys in, I think it's been less than less than flattering. But uh I going back to Collision, Yeah, FTR they're they're they're right now in tag team wrestling. So there's a couple other things here. Oh, I didn't want to ask you, are you into the acclaimed scissor thing or you think it's too much? I was into it. I enjoy it. Um, I did pop when they had Chivanni be part of it the other night. But it was like an internal thing. It wasn't like a Wow, that's awesome. It was almost like, oh, he's doing it, so I I could. I could probably go without it and make it mean more when they do it. Well, you know, I don't need to see kids in the front road. Says no, I don't know. I guess they've changed the meaning of it in their own way. Well, you beat me to the point back. Yeah, you couldn't say scissor me and get away with it like that. So okay, So there's two more questions here. Okay, this person asked to remain anonymous. I don't know because they thought it would upset you. Were what But it's involving the recent Jeff Hardy news that h did you hear about this? That he didn't go to Canada? Written off, Well, he can't. He can't go to Canada. Their team's in Canada, and because of his dy arresting everything, Canada doesn't let you in. We you know, however we treat duy, Canada doesn't let you in. So so I'm thinking that's why this, questions asked, Yeah, and so do you. I Obviously here's what I would say. I think it's I think it's important for everybody's listening to this and what we do as a foundation and what we do as a family, and always my message, everything Jeff does in and out of the ring affects people, whether it's just someone in the community. But now look at the wrestling fans who have welcomed him back again. He's backguard TV with his brother what everybody wants to see. But now there's a loophole because of the sitness he made. He can't the people that have come and bought tickets or whatever else. And let's talk business, right, people want to see the Hardies now, well they're not going to see that. So now, now why did they book it that way? Bill? That's that's my point. Like, we had a month in Canada, right, a month in Canada, and we have put the Hardy Boys back in the title picture. Who who isn't in charge of doing that? And I know the answer and you know the answer. So why would you do that to your fans? Because I'd say, listen, we're talking about Jeff Hardy, the wrestler people welcomed him back. Now they're gonna be up more than a month without him, and now they could care less again. So what are we gonna do? Hit the music again? And so so I'm not bothered by that question, and I appreciate the respectful list of them saying, I don't you know upsetting me? No, My my issues are with Jeff the man outside of the ring. I have no issues with Jeff. My thing is with Jeff the person. But look at look at what happened. Look how many people are let down by this? And why is this a question? And now people are questioning is he done? Yeah? Well, we talked before about how I didn't like the booking when he came in terrible. I thought you could have used him for a couple Like I said, he could have been a man event guy for a couple of months. Maybe he rides off in the sunset during this candidate trip, but instead they start getting story. I'm not gonna get on that rabbit hole. But now it hurts. It hurts the other teams they were working with, It hurts everybody. Got one more question here. It's from nsick Man's a mustache. I I was hoping he was back, Bill, I've heard that you and La Night have had some disagreements. I don't know anyway, Well, how do you think about how he's been booked on television and his potential? He heard or he read would be my first question? He said, heard, but I assumed, Well, who knows who talked about it? I don't know, No, I have, um, it's it's very it's very no knowledge in the rest of the world that he's He's not a fan of me. I am the contrary, am a fan of him. I think I think he had a great window of opportunity. I see now where he's getting beat up for being a you know, trying to reinvent the rock and all, you know, all the stuff, because that's the big thing on social media. Is he talks like that, he walks like that, he moves like that. I think it's a bit of Ricky Starks. Then, yeah, right, I mean we can go with that. He's talented, he can talk. I'm not sure he's gonna get the opportunity that he probably needs at this point in his career to become a Yeah, I main player. You know what I'm trying to say. He's talented. They gotta get on it. They gotta get on it really soon, because first of all, let's rewinde. I was recently reading about how he gets brought up in because of his age there. It's like a manager, right, obviously has way more to give to that, right the bray Wyatt think he came hot off of that. I don't care about the Mountain Dew going the Dark Match, whatever results. But as time goes on, as you're saying, and I do know what you're saying, the windows closing for them doing something with La, i'd even, yeah, they need to figure out what they're gonna do and what works the most for them and how he brings it out, because otherwise it's just he's in that same thing as damage control. There's so many talents that they're in there. To me, he's in the same group as the Viking Raiders. He's in the same group with a lot of people where there was an opportunity to run with what they were doing, but for whatever reason, momentum's taken away. It's focused on someone else. Then they go, Okay, let's let's let's kick start it again. And this fanbase and and this wrestling community doesn't have the patience they used to have, so they're you know, they fall out of love very quickly. Right now, he's a hot topic that he should be doing everything under the sun. Because if he's a hot topic with us and Odd Gass and the wrestling world, but he doesn't do anything on TV, it's all on him in the people's eyes, right, So the same people that are dinner too is far now. If he doesn't win the money in the bank and he doesn't cash in and doesn't beat Seth Rollins, it's a fart new church and then we won't be talking about him again, and they's gonna have to try to reinvent himself the same way again. I will say I'm a big I do like la and I quite a bit. I liked the NBA stuff that he had done that I've got to see, and I liked his TNA stuff. I'm glad to see him on television working. I certainly hope that they very a lot of utilize him sooner rather than later. I liked I liked his TNA stuff when he when he was done with WW the first time. I liked his TNA stuff. I didn't like his when he went back to him he's on NXT the second time. I didn't like that. I just felt like he was I don't know if I can say he wasn't feeling it or something. I thought the TNA run was really strong. When they brought him to um NXT, I didn't think he was the same thing he was doing. But then when they made him the male model thing, it's like starting all over again. Right. He was the manager for the two guys that a month ago were wearing S and M masks, and I did like the I remember him having a ladder match with Cameron Grime, speaking of which I don't know what they're gonna ever do with that guy. Championships in that thing. Oh man, I think he's doing good stuff. I'm glad to see uh. And it's just these guys are just wrestling so much slogger now, it's incredible. Yeah. Well, the schedules changed, you know, and it's not a kno. You know they're not doing They're not out on the road every week anymore, you know they but even aj Styles went in there in the back end, grinded through that schedule for a while. Forget it. Well, he's he goes into that different breed of guy, you know, just a different breed of performer. Yeah, but I'm to close that out for Vince's mustache, I have no I have no ill will No, there's no secret that we put it heads. Tell me what great player never butted heads with their coach. We didn't have to did it to get it to respect each other. I respect him then, I respect him now. I hope, I hope he really gets his opportunities that that I feel like that need to happen now. But yeah, we we We definitely disagreed on a lot of things. Isn't an amazing that people are able to know this too? Yeah, it's it's it's funny because I'm a big fan of I heard it. I don't remember telling you about it, you know, I look around going, but I know I know he meant he read it. Um yeah, but I have I have no problem saying, yeah, we didn't agree because he's a head strong. He knew the way he wanted to do it, and he was being asked not to do it that way, do it this way, and he would yeah yeah, yeah, yeah to your face. And then when he went out through the curtain, he did what he wanted and nobody said it wasn't good. You just weren't doing what you were asked to do. So we we had a lot of disagreements. But talented guy, he's I know, he's got a future in TV. Yeah, when he decides to stop doing the physical stuff and taking bumps. But um, yeah, I think there's that small window. But I'm I'm a fan of what he's doing. I just have to I just want to see him do more or I feel like they let us down another didn't. Yeah. People also have to realize that as you're as you build a monitor watching wrestling now, you're still thinking back to a lot of your ways, but you are a fan now, and you're probably able to look at things a little bit different than you were before, even though you always look at it some things the same way, same way, but it's different now. Yeah. I mean I was a fan before, That's why I got involved in the business. Yeah, but you weren't allowed to be a fan. It was hard to be a fan when you were one of the boys in the rate and then as you move on past that and get into the administrative part and all this employee stuff, you're not a fan anymore. It's your job, and you look at it differently and you approach differently. So I really appreciate this, this part of the journey where I get to just sit back and watch and now I hope for all the things that I talk to them about happened, because now I get to sit and watch and go and there's that part of me that goes, oh, no, it's gonna happen again. But I'm I'm a I'm a big fan of this business, and that's why we're doing what we're doing. I love wrestling, but I'm always I'm always do my best not to shy awake from the question and listen. If we if everybody got along in the wrestling business, this business would have died centuries ago, or any business. Yeah, yeah, anymo. Yeah, go to Walmart, to go to the you know, Hooters, go to Chick fil A, go to IBM, go anywhere you want. They still have Hooters. I don't know, but that's scary that that was one of those things that came into my mind. We will wrap up this journey tonight, as we have gone at it for an hour and forty five minutes here, which maybe edited down to a few minutes less when we take out all the awkward silences. But no, it was anice another awesome conversation. I can't wait to jump back into the US title. Yeah next week, but for this week, man, it's been a pleasure and I hope everybody's enjoying it. Yeah, glad we're back. This is a Greek I call him. These are our storylines US title. I can't wait to continue it and thank you. Keep the questions coming. I love it. Yep. There's a lot of interest on money in the Bank bill, so you're gonna have to make sure you figure out a way to watch that one. I'm in. Yeah, I'm okay, so yeah, check us out anywhere where you find your podcasts to build him on Experience. Buildmot dot com also houses everything has a link to everything there the foundation. Check that out. We have a t shirt at Jeff t shirts dot com Build Him On Experience t shirt. All the proceeds go to building as Families and I don't want to say your foundation because it's really way bigger than that. Yes, sir, but those are some options to where you can check us out. You can email us questions at Twitter. On podcasts father, He's build humont of course we have Bill Dumot pod at gmail dot com. I'm getting that down in it, Bill, you got it down down. I gotta started writing. Though. We're closing in on episode twenty man. Think next week and record that one will be twenty man. No, we're stew we're moving and grooving. Bill. I appreciate your time as always, man, everybody listening, keep being you and keep being great. You can get take what y'all slay. Yeah, Jeff Townsend Media sez you good night. And the question is do I stay here? Will you be back? Are you gonna come back? Will you be back? Are you coming back
