Where the hell has Bill DeMott been?

What's she gonna do? Brother? When Jeff Townsend media runs wild on you, Molly, alright, alright, alright. I am Jeff Townsend, and I am excited to go down this new journey with my good friend. Here. Let me give you a little bit of an introduction to him, even though he doesn't need one, I'm going to give it a shot here. So this is the artist formerly known as many names. Let me go through him here, Crash, the Terminator, the laughing man, the man of question, Hugh Morris. Of course, that's a great one. Well traveled. You've wrestled all around the world ec wwcwww DOWF and of course he used to be the head trainer at the Developmental System. To break it down, it would be known as n XT. You are the man, the myth, the legend, build him on. I am at least three of those things you said, Yes I am. How can you? Like? Could anybody top that intro? There? I felt pretty good about it. That's the best, like the only you're the only ones you're missing are the all time favorites, A big sweet William. When I first started, um and then what h yeah Crash and oh and of course we can't forget general ug wrection. That's it. That's it. Yeah, we we'd like to forget that one. And as you can see, he has a who let the dogs out in your bedground. I see them just stroll across the screen the mansion. That's a big dog. That's my little one, and here comes my big one. And he's like, I don't think you can really appreciate the size of this this machine next to me. He's a good boy. He's a puppy. So he's my uh, he's your right he's your right hand man right now. He's my right hand man. He stays to make sure I'm up to I'm always up to something good. But I'm excited about this man. This is I think we're gonna have a lot of fun. I have a renewed energy coming into this year, and I think I think we're gonna do some good stuff here and hopefully we get some people involved and you know, get some questions coming as we keep continuing to do this. But this is awesome. Meant, this is really like a relaunched bill because you've done a lot of things under this bill damon experience before. Yeah, so we're giving it to go him, Like you said, you got new energy, You're re energized. And just to kind of break down what we're gonna be doing, because this is the first episode, we're gonna be talking about a lot of the things that you're doing today. And of course, hey, you're forever known for your connections with wrestling, right, so we'll talk about your opinions on the product now, and we'll also deep dive into your side of things that you are part of historically. So, like I said, knowing a lot about you, I'm excited to do this so great. I feel like we have at least two episodes worth of information. That's me being sarcastic. Oh, I think I can dig up some more in that I can get heat a little fired up. We can get this third thirty years worth of the stuff to do. Yeah, we You know when I did to build them out experience back in twenty fifteen, it was a YouTube show. Actually, the show itself was being shopped at the Discovery Channel had interest in it. And what I used to do is I traveled around and spoke to coaches, people that you know, did things in leading life. I spent so many years as a coach and the last part of my career is you know, heading the developmental system. So it gave me a chance to go outside of what I did and meet other people that were either training people or guiding people in a certain way, or doing some great things. And I'm sure we'll talk about this every once a while, but just at that time of life in twenty fifteen, things really went upside down personally, so the build them out experience was on hold for a little bit. But I'm always excited to talk about Like, I know two things and I can only talk about one of them on the air, and that's wrestling. The rest is uh, you know, the rest. The rest is up to uh interpretation. But yeah, I'm excited. And you know, the build a box spirits at the end of every episode or show we do. I hope everybody leaves like with a smile on her face and then starts thinking about, wow, I didn't know that, or well there's a different way of looking at things. So yeah, I'm excited, man, I'm really and with you at the wheel, all I gotta do is this point. Yeah, I'm like the quarterback and you're left fullback, the running back, the defense, You're you're everything. Else. I'm lyle alowzto So Bill, let's started off. Everybody's wondering. A lot of people, what the hell have you been up to? Man, you've got a big gap in time here since you've been out of the wrestling industry. Yeah, and I know a lot of great work you've been doing from a turn into tragedy into something that's life changing, Yeah, for and benefits other people. So I could damn you for that. I'll let you talk about that a little bit because some of the listeners might not know it's possible everything that you've been going through and what you've accomplished in the last several years. Yeah, well thanks man. So, like twenty f fifteen was my departure from like the wrestling, the official wrestling business, you know. And I'm sure we'll get into that every week or however we handle it. But you know, so what kind of what happens is, you know, out of sight, out of mind, especially in wrestling. So it's funny because I just did right before the New Year, I did an appearance at the old DCW Arena and saw a lot of the guys, and you know, I keep in contact with a lot of the boys and that including the women you know, so you keep in contact with, you know, students, you had people training, guys that you went up and down the road with. And it's funny because people come in and go, I can't believe you here. I thought you were dead. Oh I heard that a couple of different times, and I was like, I come home and tell my wife. We're like yeah. Guys said, oh yeah, I came here because I said you're here and I thought you were dead. Like, well, why do they think? Because if you're out of sight, you're out of mind. Well, and the wrestling industry bill kind of has that a lot of people do go too soon, So I mean, yeah, yeah, and and and for whatever reason, if they don't, don't we hear about you. It's like you're you don't exist anymore. And I'd like to say I'm okay with that, but I'm not because I really enjoy I've tried to do at least two to three seminars a year, you know, two or three d seminars. I love doing appearances, so when someone does get in touch with me, I do my best to make sure I make that appearance or go see the fans. And because then truly, what I miss about the business. I think you hear this a lot is the guys is the locker room is the people that you went up and down with and people that you either trained with or saw a train or had something to do with. That's the biggest thing. And then for me, you get caught up in lack of a better term, the real world. You know, when you're out of that, there's either your career goes a different way or things like that. Unfortunately, my career didn't go a different way. My lifestyle went a different way. In twenty fifteen, my middle daughter was tragically killed by a chunk driver, a multiple offender. Three times prior to taking my daughter's life, he had been arrested for DUI. So my journey changed. And I and so I've been working and when I say I mean my family and we started the foundation and I've just been running that foundation seven days a week now for seven years. You try to get out there and meet people, and I think we assume that because we're on Twitter or Instagram or Facebook or you know, uh, ticking the talk and all those great things, that people kind of stay up with you. But I find it the wrestling fans. If it's not wrestling, they don't stay up with it. Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with that. They're just that's their gigs. So I think when people see me in public or or I'm at an appearance or something and you tell them what you're doing, they're blown away by that. And we so much appreciate people's prayers and support and condolences, but it's I find it odd at this day and age that seven years after there's people that don't know what you're doing. And that's why this, this, this show, this pod is going to be so important because we get to catch up with people and we get to reach them again and and you know, for lack of a better word, I'm I'm doing great. It was, like I said, it was really good to be out in Philadelphia a couple of weeks ago. And hopefully that opens a door for me for people who realize that I'm not gone. You know, I'm still out there doing doing that thing, but my main focus is the foundation and all that stuff. So I just thought it was kind of weird when people, Wow, I thought you were dead, and like, you don't want to hear that. Definitely, you definitely don't want to hear that the industry that you were involved in is notorious unfortunately for early deaths. I mean, yeah, and so that's a legitimate that could actually be a legitimate sure. Yeah. And the surprise on their face when they come to you go, wow, would you suck? Yeah, I'd love to sign it, but they're more excited. I think that I was actually there, you know, and yeah, and that that sounds like conceited, But I genuinely feel good when people know I'm okay and they're concerned of like while you're you know, you're here, like, oh, yeah, yeah, it's Hugh Morris, it's Orris d it's me. I'm here. One of those cats to come up to you that you know, you know, when you're in your heart. They got to be at least ten years older than you, and they sit there and say, I remember watching you when I was in grade school. You lie, And that's why I make everybody pull out their license, no wonder how old you are. And they got me by ten years. I go, I wasn't even in high school when you were watching wrestling? Man, what does that say? Wow, there's a I'll tell you it's a it's an eclectic group of people to come out to see it's really cool. So, Bill, the tragedy happened, how long did it take you before you started what you're doing now? Because I know there's a morning period, But at what point did you realize like, this is what I want to do? And then when did you How long after did you start doing it? I don't think so for clarity purposes, I don't want to do this. I didn't want to do it. I don't want to do it. I don't have to do it. We as a family were surrounded by by good people, my my church, my immediate family, my best friends. I've grown up and been with them fifty years of my life. And we start to meet people that were affected in the same way. And I had an opportunity one time to speak to a bunch of students and fifteen hundred students stayed and got in line to either shake my wife's hand, hug my daughter, or give me a hug. But they shared stories about how they were affected by something. And that's that's who Carrie is. Carrie was a people person. We get jaded as athletes, performers, entertainers, or whatever whatever we're known as we get kind of jaded to the real world because while we appreciate everyone, our downtime is our downtime. And for me, my whole career, I hid when I was home. You know, I tried to stay out of the public. You wouldn't see me shopping, you wouldn't see me in restaurants or anything like that. So it was very unusual for me to step out into that thing of meeting people and start speaking to kids. And my wife said, well, it's instead of waiting for people to contact you, it's time for us to do what we need to do. So we started the foundation almost to a year to date of the tragedy, So by October of twenty sixteen, the foundation was formed in Florida. Since since that time, I have spoken to over one hundred thousand students, We've reached tens of thousands of law enforcement officers and first responders. We've traveled the country now. But it goes back to it, it's not what I want to do. So everybody knows, like I have no problem really putting my business out there a lot of times unless it's really absurd. But so everybody knows this is volunteer work. This foundation is volunteer work, and I do it seven days a week. I'm in our office twelve hours a day. We have victims services that run twenty four hours. So someone needs to reach us, we're available. So all this is and it's not meant for any other thing, but for everybody to realize how important is truly is. I haven't brought a paycheck home in almost seven years. That's blessings from from God and my wife working and the support we have that allows me to spend the time to kind of try to help others not go through this or people that have been through it, try to try to help them out. And I've always said, and I've said this in a few different interviews, it all comes back to wrestling, because without wrestling, without thirty years in my back pocket, I don't think I ever could have stood up in front of people and talked and kind of expressed myself in a certain way. But I learned over the years that you look, you look at people's faces, you look above their heads, and you don't see them. And we've been in front of people from thirty five hundred in attendance to fifty in attendance. So that's what I do. And when we're not traveling and speaking, we're we're working on legislature here in Order and now in New Jersey, and we just announced our chapter in Alabama. So we have three recognized chapters naturally recognized Florida, New Jersey, Alabama. And I'm sure there's more to come because there's people out there that need that need help, and there's people out there that have a lot to offer other than sitting and just trying to deal with loss by themselves. You know. Yeah, that's the serious part of building up. I think it's kind of you take wrestling and a lot of people when they get out of wrestling, they don't know what to do with themselves. A lot of them don't even And I actually get this from I listened to an interview earlier with Chris Adonis, Chris Masters, you would know him. He was with Chris Van Vliet. He was just stating that he dropped out of high school to do this, to to wrestle, and he didn't have a lot of the life skills. He realized when the pandemic hit, he was like, I'm gonna go get some education, I'm gonna learn some things. So it's cool that you can take some things out of this, like your ability to speak in the public, to make a difference and turn it into something positive. Post your career with professional wrestling, Yeah, yeah, I had written a book about that first half of my life, like leading up to when I was out of wrestling, So I dabbled in a little bit of being an author. And when I when I was done in twenty fifteen, I was shooting an independent movie. I had done some Ford commercials and you know, you have opportunities where people know you and go, hey, would you like to do this? So I had the whole manager and I was doing auditions and I was you know, I was making money doing things outside of wrestling. It all stems from wrestling. It all stems from I don't I don't think the build them out of thirty something years ago would ever get in front of a camera, and whether it's a forward commercial or whether it's you know, just voiceover work or whatever anything and now speaking to one hundred thousand students, that doesn't happen without wrestling. Fortunately for me, I have some background of education, but I have a ton of life experience and that's what that's what I try to bring to to the table, and I think that that that helps. I know that helps the people that we deal with. Is not hearing something from a book or something that's you know, kind of trained to say. You're getting firsthand knowledge and experience from that. And that's kind of always the way I treated wrestling too, was just my experience, my knowledge. And however we can make that work complicated. Man, Yeah it is, But then again it's for all the right reasons though, And we are going to talk a lot about wrestling as well. But that's the important thing is that's not what defines you. You kind of have this reputation. If you just watch the tough Enough what Billemot needed to be on tough Enough, it's not the guy that I've come to know here yet you like a big teddy bear. Man, You're not this just I mean, reputations are full, always out of control, yell and screaming in the day. You are a family man, yeah, and you're putting in work for a good cause beyond, way beyond more important than professional wrestling. I think people need to know that about a lot of the cats in this business. You know our job when the red light is on, we know our job, my job and tough Enough was to be that guy. Unfortunately, what happens is whether you're a youngster growing up watching the business and Tough Enough and all these things, you have a preconceived notion of who people are. And I've heard the same thing said about Stone Cold. You know, you watched Stone Cold on our last episodes of Tough Enough, and people go, well, that guy's not cool. He's a complete hard ass and all these and all these things. It couldn't be further from the truth. But when the red lights on, you have a job. When my job was specifically you go after them, as I pertains a tough Enough. The cool thing was after the show was over and all those kids got to know me as the person not their trainer, for ten hours a day for three months, and that's you know, we didn't socialize with those kids in any season or anything whatsoever. So you've got to know them and they're like, wow, you're a real person. And then the issue going forward is every time you come back, people already have a preconceived notion of who you are until they get a chance to sit down like this or or do something. But there's a ton of cats in this business that have so much to offer people that just have a preconceived notion, and I chalk it up to that means I did my job. I've always looked at it that way, like if people at me or afraid of me, or talk about what a hard ass I am and they've never done anything with me, then I've done my job because I put it in their head and they know on the visual thing of seeing me visually see me right then and there, they've decided who I am. So that's who they get. And that's what we're gonna do with this podcast and video. We're recording on Boomcaster. By the way, my friends have an awesome platform here. But that's what we're gonna do on this. We're gonna try to deep dive into you more. You said to me, Hey, I'm an open book, ask me whatever. We're gonna get more and another episode we'll get more into the tough enough stuff and you're an honest guy, and this is part of that for me, and what I want to get across the people is more of Bill Dumont, not build Aemont the wrestler. But then again, I think it's important that we hear your side of a lot of things that happened in the professional wrestling industry. Obviously that's a huge interest, So I'm excited. Like I said, I was actually arguing with somebody on Reddit Bill recently, semi recently about you, before I'd even spoke to you. Actually, they were very upset with your comments on removing Sonny from the Hall of Fame because of the incidents with the with the DUIs. They also did not know what had happened to you. They just see these build Dumont dirt sheet comments, Build Amont want her out of the Hall of Fame, And for me, I had known what had happened, So of course I'm in there getting down myself down, voted constantly sticking up for you. But yeah, you don't want to get on Reddit if you haven't. It's an interesting place. I'm not going to get on that one. But yeah, you've you've clearly some people think you've picked the wrong side. I also go in the a w one and they don't always like what I say either, So I'm like negative five hundred karma and Reddit, well we're gonna give a lug so great, but no, So I think my point is Bill, though, that there's two things on that. Obviously your passion for what you're doing right now, but on the flip side of that, it's also like you look at this professional wrestling industry as a platform as some sort of rolling ballic approach, like you're being in the Hall of Fame means something to you. Yeah, yeah, I mean you may not be there, but that symbolizes that to you is something so significant that the image portrays should be of somebody who is living by a good example. But that would eliminate a lot of people in the Hall of Fame unfortunately. Yeah, and that's a great point. And I think a lot of people got bent out of shape because, oh, how come you're not talking about this one or that one? That platform for me? And to briefly go back, you remember what happened with Hogan years ago. They erased them from everything. Yep, So how do I reach the wrestling community. I'm listen. I've known Tammy since she was a kid. I've had no issues with Tammy the person. I know. She's gone through a lot of things, and I'm not here on this platform. I don't stand on a soapbox. I never point fingers and I never judge anyone. Never ever, what she's going through is what she's going through on the numerous ninth time when a life is taken. How do you bring that to light? You touch on wrestling. This happened to deal with wrestling. Now if people follow the same thing, I say the same about the NFL, Major League Baseball, the NBA, Tiger Woods, anybody who has celebrity, and we all have some limit of celebrity. But she was now arrested here in Florida, by the way, where I do the majority of my advocacy work and working with legislature and things. So I have two options. Let it go because we're brothers, were co workers, were wrestlers, you're a Hall of Famer. I need to respect that. Or do you bring it tonight and bring the wrestling community into it and say you have to see what's going on here? And then I'll throw another wrench in it because people have said to me, how dare you? And I say, how would you like to be the show? And that person is driving You're coming from a wrestling show and heaven forbid, something happened to you because a wrestler was drunk driving or driving or something like that. So, and this isn't just something I brought up and said, take her out of the Hall of Fame. I've been at every court date. I've been in the court physically because my intentions are not to let a repeat offender walk away after taking at least one life. And that's where that came from. So, how do you in wrestling terms, how do I stir the pot? Well, it's very easy get her out of the Hall of Fame. And to your point, if you went by character and everything else, there'd be a very shallow hall of fame. Yeah, but we're talking about wrestling, and I'm not saying anything about a wrestling I said, and it got the dander up of not only WWE universe, but the wrestling community got pissed off, But they got pissed off down the middle. Some were pissed off because of what's happened, and some were pissed off because I asked for her to be out of the Hall of Fame. I don't care if she's in the Hall of Fame. I need to bring attention to what's happening now. But then, how do you set the tone for all these up and comers. Why is it okay for people because they have celebrity, or because they have because the they have a past and all these things and what they've done in the past, Why is it okay for them to do this? It wasn't okay the other seven times she got stopped either, But when do we stand up and go? Now there's lives being taken because of this decision. So my decision was and it was one that was talked about in this house very at length, because we know the effects of once you pissed off a wrestling community, there's only two sides. They're gonna hate you, and so we don't get a twisted I've had death threats, I've had people cussing my family and saying things about my daughter. They don't know what they're really saying, and I you have to let that roll off. You have to be a duck in water, right, you have to let that stuff roll off your back. So I've taken I've taken a beating on it a little bit, but I've also raised the awareness of a lot of people, and so you know, that's that's the journey. And unfortunately the same thing with Jeff Hardy. Now, Matt and I had a side a couple of side conversations because I did not attack Matt or Jeff's character. I talked about the repeat dui offender, not Jeff Hardy the character, the entertainer, the sports entertainer, the professional wrestler. I'm talking about Jeffrey Nero Hardy, the repeat DUI offender. And so people go, well, now he's just gonna jump Yeah, I am gonna jump on everybody I am going to And I take it very personally when people in the business that I've been in with them, before them and around them, have the colossal goal to just think that it doesn't affect any buddy up. Every time I see a wrestler in that situation, I'm affected by that. You bring up a great point, and those are obviously influential characters, Sonny, Right. Yeah, I'm born eighty six, so obviously being a young boy, you know, I knew her. But also the heart Jeff Hardy was huge to me. That was like the turn of wrestling and really is somebody that you look to look up to. So there's that that side of it too. You guys play a lot, you wear a lot of hats, I guess is what I'm trying to say, and that is something that aside from any offense, really it's something that shouldn't be taken lightly. And it's the same issue that I have with the NFL. The NBA's got a lot better. It had a it was rough there for a while, but the NFL has a lot of problem with this. And I see exactly what you're saying. It's it's entertainment. Yeah, but you are on a stage and platform. There's impacting people, right, do you do your thing. But when it impacts the community and it impacts people outside, hell, let's let's be honest. I would have to the Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, because there husband was DUI and tried to get out of it and make it so it didn't happen. So this is, unfortunately for me. This is the journey I'm on and I'm going to bring light to every situation like that. And I'm not just a guy who sits on the computer who goes, oh, I read this on TMC and let me just publish it and have an opinion. I'm in the courtrooms. I'm spending time with those families. The last her family has been dealing with this for over a year, while Tammy's court dates keep getting pushed back, they keep prolonging, prolonging. So what happens to those families? Well, what does Bill? No, he just you know, I'm just the guy who reads it on TMZ. No, I'm in the courtrooms, I'm working with the family. I'm working with the Volution County prosecutor. The idea is to how do we stop this from continuing to happen? You know, where's the accountability? And so back to the original point he had, the wrestling community loves or hates you every day by what you do or say that day. If I'm sure, if I came out and I don't know how to three Headed Baby and named it, you know, crash you Morris and wrection, I'd be the you know, everybody love me again because I'll look what he did, you know, terrible analogy, but I you know, something goofy like that put you back in in the favor of people. But I'm not in the business now of entertaining people with this. I don't find it entertaining. So that's that's the probably a bad way to say, but that's the cross I bear now in the wrestling community. So and I know a lot of I know a lot of the boys steer away from me because they don't want to be looped into that do your thing. I'm not, like I said, I'm not throwing stones. There's not a perfect boat in my body. There's nothing I haven't done or haven't thought about doing. And but hopefully we learn as we go, you know, and you try to fix things. And and that's the point nine nine times. And now someone's you know, lives, lives have been changed, so someone's got to stand up, and we just tend to sweep it under the rug. And well, you know, hopefully they get help. But what about the family has been affected? They have no help, they're already done. And so that's where I come in. And again it goes back to lessons I've learned over thirty years in this in this business. That was important for me to bring up. Bill. I did want to touch up on that. I didn't know if you spoke about that more in detail, but I wanted to make sure you had the platform to do so before we segue into more of back half of this episode, we'll talk about your opinions on current product. I did want to get that give you the time to do that, so well, thank you man. Yeah, no problem. You and I talk a little bit about the current product as we've talked here, a little bit back and forwards. I am a lot that I agree with you on. You know, is that everything I don't know. But my job is to present thans to you here and get a reaction from you and your opinion on it. So that's what we're going to do here. It's changed a lot since you've been in it. I actually want to kick this off. You're going to call them the Devil's Advocate, which I'm fine with that. I want to get a I want to read you a quote from Kenny Omega. It says, and this was about I think it was about five years ago ish, Bill, I want to say maybe six even, and this was what he was talking about your training fullawfe and just to quote it, and there is more to the quote, but I'm not going to read at all. I think he understood the power plant philosophy. He wasn't the greatest pro wrestling teacher. So Bill, when I when I read that, a couple of things kind in my mind, like what the hell's pro wrestling thing? Like it's pro wrestling something different. Now, Yeah, it made me think, what the hell's pro wrestling? Like, what does that even mean? Like does that mean that Bildemont can't do a lariat or like or some crazy I'm just confused when I read something like that. When I hear something like that, it's uh, you know, you know, it's funny because I think Kenny just came out and did another interview talking about his early experience with WWE and how it wasn't for him. Kenny didn't spend a lot of time with us in the Deep South. He wasn't there very long. Clearly he wasn't unhappy because he had he had a vision of what he wanted to do, and earlier on you knew he was an entertainer, I said from the beginning. And here's the cool thing about me. I keep everything I've ever done. I learned that a long time ago. So I keep every report, every email, every training tape. I have a storage unit that I should probably just get rid of. But it's just that thing I've done. That's as a coach, that's what you do. Like Kenny wasn't really happy with the way he was being asked to do things turns out Kenny wasn't happy with wrestling. I think in his latest interview his perception of wrestling wasn't what he thought it wasn't. It wasn't for him, at least in a WWE standard way of doing things. You got that a lot early on from the from the independent kind of guys that were just starting out. You know what I say to this day, if you're making money, do what you do and you love what you do. Don't come to a camp where you're gonna learn the WWE way because it's gonna take everything away from you and then give it back. But can you can you subscribe to this mentality, this this thing we do. So as far as as when Kenny came to Deep South, Deep South wasn't there like the performance center where you're there getting groomed. Deep South was there for guys that had some kind of knowledge that needed to get into twenty foot ring shape, that needed to understand the mentality of how they like to do their TVs. And there's just certain guys who don't want to change what they do. So when they're unhappy, it's, you know, it's like anything else they go out and say or do or whatever else. It's funny because I have his parting letter to John Lornitas. I have it in a file. It just he was unhappy, was away from home, his girlfriend or whatever. But I've heard it before where Kenny's made no bones about jumping all over me as a person and a coach for years. But to be honest, he didn't spend that much time with me, so I don't really hold it doesn't hold that much water with me. It's just, you know, when people leave, they get to say and do what they want, and if you have a following and people jump on that and people who don't know go yeah, And it's not so I have no ill will towards him. He had to do what he had to do. I wish he wouldn't have guilded the lily and put all of it on me and just came out when he started burying me on the internet, came out and said, listen, it just wasn't for me. And I didn't gel with them up. I didn't realize him and I had a problem, except for when he tried to wear a plunger on his head in the middle of a TV taping. You know that was that was the issues with Kenny. He wanted to do crazy stuff, you know, so he's kind of paved his own path too. Like but back to my original point, Obviously professional wrestling is different for others. It's different for Kenny Omega. He's kind of paved his own way. When I hear that comment, I'm thinking, that made me think, like, well, that's professional wrestling something different to Kenny, and he's paved his own way with it for sure. Yeah, and he's done, and he's done a great job. He wasn't Kenny wasn't there for the traditional way to get in this business. Athletic, inventive. He wanted to do crazy things and get people to react. You know. It's just like when he went years ago and he wrestled that little girl in Japan, it was the biggest thing going. That's who he is and what he does, and he's very good at what he does, and he's a hell of an athlete. I said years ago, and I'll stand by it. I said he was the next Chris Jericho. I'm a big Santa Katy. I can't help it. He's not a fan of me or what he perceived I was gonna do or did, But I think professional wrestling means different things to different people. And unfortunately, when you join, get asked to join, pulled in and by the way you paid, you're not training and paying your way. You're getting paid to learn a certain way of doing things. And that theory didn't change back in the early nineties when Omega was there. It didn't change into two thousands when Seth Rollins and Dean Ambrose were there. It didn't change when Sammy Zane came in. It didn't change when Pop came in. It didn't change when Charlotte came in. It didn't change when Shamus came in and Weighed and all these other guys. The theory has not changed. It's just if you're gonna be there, learn what they're asking of you, and then become who you want to be. That's where the trust is. But you know, we could talk about that for I'm sure we will. But yeah, like I said, people have a platform, and I really wish they'd use it on something more than just saying I hate build them up. It made me work too hard. Well, okay, let's continue to segue with that thought. Professional wrestling has changed since you got into it eighties going on towards eight late eighties, and you have been a world traveled man. I actually want to kick this next part off with reading you some stats from Dave Meltzer's Wrestling Observer newsletter Historical data here that I collected. What may I add that Dave does have me blocked on Twitter? Um, I made a couple of comments that upset him, one of which was I don't remember what match it was, but I said, if it was the Tokyo Dome, it would be seven stars. In The second comment I said was Dave Meltzer says, I'm in the key demo. That was the one that did me in and got me blocked. Still paying for this guy's newsletter, So let me read some interest in stats for you here. So this is like I said, I collected it. So let's talk five star matches by decade. So in the eighties there was twenty four, nineties there were sixty five. This is five plus star by the way, right, because he obviously does exceed that. The two thousands that era were down to seven two ten to twenty twenty twenty nineteen sixty seven. Then here's the interesting part. Bill since the year twenty twenty fifty four five plus star matches that David Meltzers rated, and he's been doing this for forty years now let me let me continue this a little bit more. Individuals with the most five star matches twenty nine year old Will Osprey. I don't know if you've ever watched him perform great, Yeah he is. He actually tied and lead me has twenty five matches rated that high. Kenny Omega has twenty according to the record setting seven star match out of the five star scale. And this is where it gets weird for me. Rick flare as twelve and the Young Bucks have nine. New Japan Pro Obviously he's going to have a significant amount. We know that that's what Dave likes. Eighty one of them in the history of it all Japan Pro Men's End Wrestling Combine Men and Women, excuse me, combine fifty four. Then here's the interesting part. I thought, WWE WWF long Legacy obviously of that promotion is tied with aw now for sixteen five plus star matches. Then obviously WCW Bring of Honor at seven each, So yeah, aw Bill is caught up. Does that mean with WWF all times? Does that mean that we're seeing better wrestling these days. Well, I'm trying to figure out how to say this. I don't I don't remember seeing um Melcher's first match. A matter of fact that I don't remember any of them. I'm curious if he has any five star matches. I don't know how a company, and it's not a shot at aw how a company that's just what three years old now has the same amount of five star matches as a company that's been running forty plus year? What is it? Since Vince has its Yeah, so it's it's longer than forty years, and so five star matches. I just I just find it odd that this guy has such a platform and people hold on to that rating set. I don't understand the rating system. I don't understand where it comes from. I don't I don't understand the where he draws his information from, because, as far as I know, he's never been in the ring, he's never trained done anything. I know early on, I learned of him because Tom Brandy used to get his written dirt sheet sent to him in Puerto Rico to read all those things, and that was my introduction to the dirt sheets. I don't know why we even consider the wrestling business changing because of this, this rating system. I think it's actually think it's absurd that, Okay, if you have that many five star matches, you should quit because everything else you do sucks. It's like, if you have the perfect match, leave, What are we what are we aspiring for? What else can we expect from Will Osprey or Kenny Omega? What else are we supposed to expect? Rick Flair has twelve five star matches? Yeah? Yeah, and how many did the Young Bucks have? They're closing in on him. They have nine? And I suspect after the what I watched, uh last night, you know this is not gonna come out in this time. But last night, what I watched with the seventh match of the series of the Right, So that's another another Yeah. So I don't know what the what the pre records it is for or the dynamic is for a five star match. I don't think it has anything to do with wrestling. I think you're rating. You know, the term is the car crash, right, That's the that's the term everybody uses, like the fast paced blah blah blaham amazing that la la uh, there's nothing, there's nothing wrong with that style. I just don't understand the But this guy gets a lot of airtime about his five star man the seventh star matches and all these things that what was Hogan and Andre got? What a two star? You know? So I'm confused by it, And every time it's brought up, I sit there and I try to comprehend what's the what's the what's why is he the measuring stick in or who is he listening to? That this is the thing. And then for upcoming young start wrestlers that are on the internet and see this getting five stars, well then everybody's got to be like Will Osprey or Kenny o'megan now, and I think, na, here's where all getting troubles being an old guy. Now, that's why there's seventy two super kicks in every match, and a pile driver doesn't mean anything, and a DDT doesn't mean anything, and all these things don't mean anything. And so how's it a five star match by the amount you do in a certain time or clearly can't be the physicality, because physicality just keeps going. I feel like it's poisoned the fans. People go well trying that they're trying to go for the But the wrestlers are trying to go for that the stars, you're thinking, I don't think. No, I don't think necessarily they're trying to get the five star rating. I think that because people now follow that, you know, maybe it's pressure for them to have to keep doing that so they don't fall, you know, fall from grace. So he could it could be a double edged sword for the for the performers. Listen, what was what was Machuman and Steamboat in wrestl rating three? How many stars with that? You know? Off hand? No, I don't know off hand. I don't want to, but I guarantee it wasn't five stars. It wasn't seven stars. I can tell you that. And and what I mean, what's what is there a ten star limit? Where where we at? But here's my thing, Bill that I get confused because to me, like you talked about Andre and Hogan, Yeah, to me, that was a big moment in the history of wrestling, and it was executed well, and it was the passing of the torch. So what's the syllabus for being a five star match? Because to me, as far as the point in the story that came across there, it was a home run. It was very clear what had happened and it was executed, So I get confused. If that was the job, then how do you come up with the rating? So we'll use and you you hear that. I think you hear this a lot. And if you're on social media, people say this a lot. Aw gives you sixty minutes or one twenty minutes of NonStop action and all these things. But there's no story, there's no you can't get behind it. You're just coming to watch what they're gonna do next. You guys like Daniel Bryan now who are hopefully going to tell you a good story with leading into MJF and all the things that are going on the Bloodline, is that think is the best story going and wrestling because they're telling a story. Have any of the Bloodline matches gotten five stars? Hell no? You know Survivor Series match with Sammy Zane letting j do that finisher and Kevin ownsdown that was executed to a t. That story was made clear, Hey he's one of us. Now, I thought it was executed perfectly. Yeah, I think, but that's the difference, and I think Jericho does it best. There's a fine line between professional wrestling and sports entertainment. There's that fine line, and that five star thing has nothing to do with professional wrestling. It has to do with sports entertainment, I think. So back to the point, though, have you seen that evolved since you last wrestled, going back to the mid two thousands when you're dropping power bombs in WW I never even paid attention to that. That wasn't even a conversation, you know. There wasn't even a thought like what do I need to do to really lie up my you know, my my rankings. Um, I think when you first said there's my knucklehead dogs, I love it. Dog fight dog fight. See, they get worked up too on one's a professional wrestler, one who sports entertainer. But back to my point, like we weren't there too those knuckleheads. We weren't thinking about what's what's gonna be my ranking. The only time I ever thought about my ranking as a professional wrestlers when I first broke into business and the PWI had the top five hundred. Yeah, there was nothing cooler as a kid. There was greener than goose shit. Can I say that I don't want to get in trouble. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we can see whatever. Hell so, and I tried my best, not the curse. But it's a it's a wrestling thing. I'm greener than Goose. Shit, I'm trying to learn this craft. And I'm in the same book as Great to Him, a violentine and whole Coogan an Ultimate Warrior, and all these guys in Japan and all these things. So that the only two times I ever, lack of a better term, marked out for a rankings was the first time when I was in the Independence and then when I made the list when I went to Japan, I personally thought that was cool. It didn't get me any more money, It didn't get me any prestige. It didn't put me Iron the Card, it didn't give me extra longevity in my contracts. It didn't give me a bus, it didn't give me first class tickets. That's something that you take for yourself because you're working hard, and go wow, I appreciate it as you get older in this business. It don't mean nothing. It doesn't mean anything. And if you I think it's cool people think of you that way. And when you're ranked in all these things, and I love the fact that they still do it, and he's up and comers see their Yes, that's cool. But this five star thing and getting ranked and labeled as this kind of performer or sports entertainer by someone who I don't know, who makes a living out of a business he's only been involved in beyond a keyboard. And so I feel like back in the day, and I won't say it was Meltzer, but there have been people who've been escorted out for writing what they write or ranking it like people took that personally. You're going to tell Greg Valentine after a loop that he just had in the storylines he was in and everything he'd done with Tito and everybody else, that his matches weren't five star. You weren't even allowed the locker room in the building, things like that. So a lot of guys didn't pay attention to it. A lot of guys and girls didn't want it around. Now it's a prerequisite to being part of the professional wrestling industry, as you you know, hey, where do you rank? Now? What? Now we're not going to ask people how many matches they've had a what was your last ranking? Well, you know, how many stars was your last match? And This is where the old fart in me comes out, Like you see how long you've been doing this and someone goes, I've been doing this for twenty years, but you had one match a year for twenty years. It doesn't make you a professional wrestler and makes you someone who's wrestling under a professional banner because someone's running a show. I know I haven't answered the question, but that's how the business has changed to me. Like you got in it for a reason, and whether it was to become famous, or to make lots of money going to do something else, become a movie star, or because you had nothing else do, or you were an athlete that was gifted and they brought you into this business. If you made it here and did well, it's because you loved what you were doing, not because of how you were rated. You listen, Triple H didn't get to where he was because he had seventy five four or five star matches? How many how many five star matches as Sean Michaels had? And then how can they justify him leading this new generation of wrestlers? What he has less five star matches than the young bucks? Oh, you're right, and you're talking the showstopp or, mister WrestleMania right grand to stage, here's the guy. How many does Undertaker have? How many do you? And how dare they keep doing these things? If these guys aren't living up to the standard of five and seven star matches, I agree. So it's these are supposed to be significant, right, but when you look at from that point, it doesn't seem so significant. I would invite will Ospray, Kenny Omega, anybody to come on with us and tell us how they financially benefited, how physically, mentally health wise they benefited from this, how their careers benefited because someone's giving them above four star matches. If I'm gonna go watch will Osprey, it's not because of a five star rating. It's because of what he does, how he does it, and if I'm invested in what he does, I'm still the notion of its storytelling. And you've got to capture my attention. I'm not listening going on a website and go, wow, that got four matches. I'm I'm a big fan. Samoa. Joe's terrible because he doesn't have any five star matches. Yeah, he is amazing, So you know, I don't understand when it happened. It definitely happened while I was still active. I was just in that in that group of men and women who didn't didn't let that hold water or decide what you were going to do. And I say this to all the youngsters coming up and people learning it now they're still young and learning the graft as they go. Don't let that be your measuring stick. Don't let that define you, because then you're not you're not wrestling anymore, You're not entertained. You're trying to you know, we hear a lot of times in wrestling you you only have to please a crowd of one, and usually people say that about Vince. But if you're doing it just to get a rating, then you're trying to please one guy who's going to give you a five start rating. That's not gonna pay your rent, it's not going to pay your medical bills. It's not gonna get you to the next town. It's not gonna get you from making twenty five dollars to make in twenty five thousand. It's it's one of those things like I could see if it was a perk and it truly ments something, and it helped you elevating your career and what you want to do and after your career, because you can't cash in those five stars when this is all over. You can't. There's no pay window for how many five star matches you bad that's gonna make you happy when when wrestling is over. So I'm just like, we can go down this for I'm just such not a fan of that ranking system. It's it's it's subjective, right, It's some people dig it and and some people don't. And for the most part, I think I think that the wrestling public in general they know it doesn't really doesn't hold any water, but it definitely doesn't determine who they are. I think it's just the progression of It's like anything else. These were dirt sheets and you had to subscribe, and it was a piece of paper or like a you know, like a whole pamphlet. Now you can just go on the internet and everybody can get to it. So how do I make how do I make my product more relevant? Well, I'm going to read these guys, Yeah, I think for me with Dave Meltzer, and I'm not going to take away what he's accomplished and everything but it's at what point did it go from news to critic? Yeah, I mean that that's not news, that's just being critical, that's being a critic. And that's kind of the problem that I have. And it's definitely seem to get a little bit more biased throughout the years. And yeah, who he's a buddy buddy with. I think there's no doubt they obviously get higher things. Not that they're all great wrestlers per se, but yeah, I mean to me, like, how's that news? And that's that's the thing. There's there's a big difference between critiquing something and criticizing, and that platform criticizes everything and tears it down and builds up what it wants to build up. Well, then, and so I suggest this, If they have all this platform to do this, then why are they not suggesting what others need to do to get up to this five star rating? How can you make their work better? How can you make them better entertainers, better professional wrestlers, better athletes, better people. Maybe that's what he should be working on. If he wants to truly contribute to this business instead of just making a living off of it, then maybe his expertise should be in telling people how to achieve a consistent five star rating, or this will get you to Japan if if I see you do this, or this is what I've learned over my forty years in the business, and this is what I've seen, And now I'll probably be blocked on Twitter. It happens. Maybe one day we'll maybe unblocking. I'm not counting on it though many jokes you and I've talked about. Aw, the skill set aspect is really great in it. I agree with you, and I even like the rankings on the wind Loss love it. It doesn't do much for me if it's not meaningful, so they have to continue to make it meaningful then like highlight it and make sure it goes somewhere with it. So I have no problem with it. I do like that. But man, I sure liked the work they were doing when cmpunk was there. Maybe I'm just a big cmpunk fan, but I really hated to see him go after that comeback. Man, it's that thing of every time we as a as a group of wrestlers and wrestling and things, it's every time you've got something going great. We just have this ability to screw the pooch. But I think a lot of that comes to me because I agree with you in pumping back. Good business was being done. Yeah, as far as ratings and all those things, it was up, and their houses were up, and and what they were doing was moving in the right direction. I think the problem is and this again, this is my opinion, my opinion, and I've learned this a long time ago from some very smart men. You cannot be in charge and be one of the boys. Yeah, And that's I think what drew the line in the sand for punk. I wasn't there. I don't speak to any of those guys now because I don't like them. I just don't have, you know, that kind of relationship. But he came out and blew his top. Because everybody in charge is on top everybody, So there's got to be that. And I think, knowing Phil like he wanted people recognize, he drew the house. But then you have these guys who are in charge doing what they want to do. And I think Tony Khan became and still is in that little bit of he became a victim of his own success. He wants wrestling to change, He wants to do these great things. Going back to the rankings that slowly drifted from what their storylines were going to be. But I think the thing with Punk and a lot of a lot of stuff that going on is you can't be in control and be involved. And I think there's a big thing to let to Cody leaving and then I saw it again when and I know I'm drifting on it, but I hopefully it's the same kind of conversation. You see Jeff Jarrett leave one company, he becomes a senior vice president of travel or live events, and now he's on TV every week. They announce him as an executive. When he came in as a hell I thought that was interesting. Every executive are top dogs. So when you have guys coming in there and draw proving from their merchandise and the numbers are doing proven that they're doing well, then that should be the conversation. So this is this is the part of wrestling, and as it progresses, people are changing the you know, the roadwork of it. But at the same time, it still comes down to money and egoes and you can't I'm a big believer in you cannot be involved and be in charge. I think that's what I believe, that's what hurts aw. And again, if you follow the news, people wanting to leave, blasking for leases, the regal, you know everything that's going on. Why are certain people out leave certain people aren't. Well, we're going to treat the wrestling business differently, but it's it's still muddy waters when you let the people that are running the asylum be a part of the you know, the craziness. I'll say one thing, Bill, I dabble in the corporate world in a director role, not quite VP, but I will say that if I got in a fight with somebody that I worked with or managed, it didn't matter if I started it or not, I'd be fired. Yeah, And I think that was an interesting thing for me. It's it's and that's a wrestling thing because in any other setting, you gotta be gone. You got terminated. There's no anifter butts who And we'll put it to you. Who are you? How long have you been there? What have you really brought to the table all these things? Well, if I'm the EVP, you can't fire me. You can't do that, you can't do that, I can do this or I okay. This one was suspended for two weeks. The others was spending for three weeks. This guy was let go because he was part of it. The locker room gets together because they don't like what happened, and so they they have a say in it without being there. Tony's gonna do the Kumbaya on three different sides. And how do you make everybody happy and still take pictures with him and and you know, be their friends in social media and all these things. So there's there's that thing about professional wrestling that is changing again, because truly the here's where you get into for saying, but you can only talk in billisms, right. The inmates are running the asylum. But it comes down to what Tony does and how he handles it. Now, I'm sure Tony could be the biggest heel and hated man in professional wrestling if he put his foot down and ran it the way. Maybe he sees it different and tries to run a different way. Now, Tony CON's the bigger, the bigger, no good, dirty dog, you know. And then all of a sudden, Vince is the great guy again, you know. And that's all you hear about is people say, well they want to jump back with Hunter. Well, now, Vince, you know they want to jump back here and they want to just wrestle man, be happy where you are. And that's the thing. I don't think anybody's happy with what they're doing. The end game is about them. It's not wrong. We're all individuals, we're all independent contractors, we all but the the end game is what's what's in it for me, not what's what's in the best interest of And I'm hopeful and I think AW as a great product. I think they're the roster's talent is all get out. I think there's amazing athletes, men and women. There's I don't think there's enough opportunities from them to all get the reps they need because right now they're mostly a TV company and some of the stuff on TV to me's a little wonky, but that's wrestling, right, so you work on it. But it goes back to that five star thing. It's huge too. They have a lot of people. You're right, there's not even enough time and day or a platform for a lot of them to do anything. Now you could have he could have four more shows and run ROH full time and still not get everybody the reps they need. And and you know, at the end of the day. Godi Rhodes is a wrestler. He's an entertainer, he's an actor. He's always say, but he's a wrestler. And I think he saw that it wasn't gonna get anywhere there and he wanted to go where he could wrestle and do his craft. Big leap of faith it was, But the work he accomplished on the independent scene after Stardust was and just like Drew McIntyre when he exited, originally that was great stuff. It was needed, I think as part of him as a person in a wrestling career. Since yes, so yes, I think when guys have and you'll hear I think you'll hear this from ninety percent of the men and women for whatever reason, have been released let go their contract expired, when they had to go out and either refine themselves as wrestlers or something else, and then had the opportunity to come back. They appreciated the first part of that journey more because it all made sense. But we're in such a not anymore. But back when we were in three hundred days a year and go, go, go mode, you never had time to sit and think about all those things. So kind of the best part of being out of the business is then appreciating it again and what you did get a comp what you did do and what you do have to offer, you know. But I think we're so we're so worked up on that. And I always like to hear from the the cats that have either gone away for whatever reason and then come back. They appreciate it more. They're having more fun, they're smarter, they're better at what they do, they're better storytellers, they're better people in and out of the ring. I don't want to play bones with you fucking my monster, my horse. But yeah, that's like I have. That's that's kind of like my opinion on it is there's so many opportunities for these guys and if they just let listen and I'll say this and we can well, I know we'll talk about it again. Seth Rawlins and Sammy's Ain were the two biggest hardest guys to get to trust the process. They wanted to fight me every and they hate did my guts And I think the world of them is as young men and now Seth as a family man, and Sammy do what he's doing because I knew that's what was going to happen. But just trust the process and then once everybody got to feel from now, look at them, they're in They're the future. They're they're laying the groundwork, and I'm so happy to see that. Kofi. Trust the process. Look at Kofi Kingston and he's look at the miss look at look at Gallows, look at all these guys. Man, just trust the process, do your job, pick up things along the way, Trust the process, and when the time is right, someone's going to give you the green light and go, go do you But you've got to earn that, or at least you had to earn it. Now everybody comes in expecting it because they got that ranking, they got that notoriety. Hey, if this guy said, I'm good, screw you. What do you know? Dean Malinko, you know? What do you know? Jerry Lynn, Billy Gunn, Why are you a produce? Duston? Why are you a producer? Why? Mark Henry Big Show? All these guys are the producers there now, Molly Holly Hurricane over here. You know these guys doing this, what do they know? They're not ranked anymore, They never got right, So why would I listen into those games? Because they have that experience and they've they've been you know, fruitful, they've been successful, and that's why they're in that position. But nowadays it doesn't it doesn't hold as much water with the with the young cats coming in. You couldn't get me out of a locker room when the veterans were talking. You couldn't get me not to drive ted Dbasi in Haku. You couldn't get me not to listen to one Man Gang talk because I knew within the story there was a lesson that wouldn't affect me at the time but would come into play somewhere down the road. And I know that that's the old fart in me going and now I'm just going down the wormhole. But I think that's the that's the change since I started, and I'm sure people that started before me feel that way or at least some kind of way like that. But then again, you got to throw it back to this is what everybody's allowed the business to become. So you can't fight city Hall. You know, I will say one thing. I'm going to trust the process of this podcast. We were created here because this was a this was a hell of an hour, a little over an arrow spent bills though. It's great and I think it's gonna have awesome things to come. So trust the process. That's what I'm gonna take away from this this one. Yeah, that's and I think in the demot Mansion that's kind of the golden rule is wrestling rules apply, trust the process. You know, my kids are growing up that way. You don't understand it now, but trust it. It's gonna make sense. It's you know. And and with this podcast, trust us. You're all gonna have fun, You're all gonna hopefully learn something, and we're gonna change your mindset about more than just wrestling, maybe maybe about life, maybe about you know what what we both do, Jeff and I both do on a day to day. But at the end of the day, if we leave with a smile, going, hey, how's the heck of a show, then then then we're doing our job absolutely. So we'll end it with some call to actions here. Yeah, I'm putting together the website now. I actually owned build Dumont dot com, which incredible. So between me owning build Hmont dot com and you owning the build hum On experience, we will be sending people to the website via both of those. So yeah, that's where you're to find everything. Right now, I'm putting up drafting it as bildemont dot com. We'll tie in the experience. Yeah, Bill, moving forward, you might want to make sure you purchase your name domain. That's all save hands for now. See I learned something right now in the first episode. Yeah, I figured you'd liked that. That was a surprise, but no. So yeah, if you're enjoying this, share it please. Yeah I know, Bill. Bill, obviously you have a well established career and a very valid point of view on these things. So I'm hoping people enjoy it. If you do, just share it, follow it on your podcast app, subscribe to it on YouTube, and just join us along for this journey. Every week we'll touch up on something new and maybe we'll grow it from it. Like you said, Bill, I look forward to it. Man, it's a lot of fun. I like boom Caster. Thank you boom cast in this school yep. Between Boomcaster and podcast page dot io who we're hosting our website. I've got all the hookups in the podcasting industry. Man. Where's that? So we'll end it until next time. Keep being you, keep being great. That's a Jeff Townsend trademark. There, Bill, I like that where you can get out. You see little bride shakes, shake a little kim, take a little chance on the right to what my kid to mother. Y'all, man, your sweat shining, make the best side yourself, don't you? Sprandi shot y'all shouting town the room water Jeff Townsend Media bat