What you gonna do brother when Jeff Townsend media runs wild on you? All right, man, So I guess we'll go ahead and get going. I kind of messed up your your Twitter. Sorry about locking you out of your Twitter. Hey, listen, As long as I know who's hacking me, I really don't get offended by it. Is it hacking if it's permitted, you know, I don't know. I'm not sure, but I'm I'm trying to use like these these new words, this jargon that makes me like, you know, well, we didn't get onto the your Twitter. That'll be next week when I don't have your account locked. We need you the wrong password. I'd benn this from my Twitter. Yeah, yeah, anyway, we'll go ahead, get going, Bill. This is the Buildemon Experience. We are live right now on Facebook. I think we're on on this on this day in pro wrestling history. I think it has more followers than our personal facebooks. So and of course they're wrestling fans, so that that's a plus. Always like that. And we're going live on my Twitter right now because I locked Bill out of his. Next week we'll be live on Bill's. This is kind of a trial run for we're using stream yard right now, just so we can get a little bit user experience, share some videos, stuff like that. So this is actually a test run we're doing right now. So we appreciate you being patient with us a little bit out of our comfort zone, but that's that's part of life, though. Bill. How are you doing this week? Man? I'm doing good man. I'm like, I like this stuff. I'm learning a lot. We're like worthy. Is this what they call it? AI? Are we AI right now? I don't know we're full blown AI right now, but we're getting there. I just like the fact that I could be AI because I know the eyes stands for intelligence. Can't beat that. That's such something that's something we're not called very often. Yeah, the only time we can be associated with that will take it. Do good buddy, How you doing good man? Crazy day, running behind, but wouldn't have it any other way. So today, Like, so this episode is gonna be I don't know if it's gonna be an hour and a half long marathon, like you know, I have the kiddo's in the house, and yeah, fall break and all that. So that's what's going on here, man, fall break time. Can't beat that. It just seems like it's earlier than it was when I was a kid. I just don't know that for a fact. But we're on fall break. So i'm you know, I'm a couple years older than you by two decades. And is it fall break the same as winter break? No? Winter, you get a couple weeks off around Christmas time. Man, So now there's a week off for fall break. It's only two days. It's only two days. So you have a break and then you go because then there's a break coming up for Thanksgiving, and then you go, and then there's a break for winter. So is there a pre spring break? What does that called the post winter break? Now you're just now you're going too far. You're looking too far into this. I think, Delvin C. This is where the intelligence thing, this is where I ruined it. Yeah, well I'm glad they got a couple of days off. That's good. Yeah for sure. Uh So, Man, tonight I had a little bit of an approach. We're going to do all the big talk. This week has been NXT versus ae W. A lot of build up going into this, man, did you see as this week, actually over the last week, I'd say really started to progress on this build up of ae W verse okay, AW Dynamite excuse me, versus w W E n x T. I believe this started because of playoff baseball? Is that correct? So they moved and they had to move a W Dynamite to Tuesday night because I think you have to number yeah yeah, yeah for the for the for the playoffs. I'm gonna I'm gonna wait. I'm gonna wait till you serve me the softball and then I'm gonna jump into my uh my, I don't want to call it a re my. Yeah, I'm gonna wait because I've I've got a lot to say that has nothing to do about either show. Okay, I don't know what that means, but we'll go down wow. So we uh So, there's been a build up to this, like we just said, and there's been kind of like a one upping going on. Howny CON's actually gone on a little bit of a media you were uh he did some podcast stuff like that to make the announcement about this, and he's been all over Twitter, more active than he usually is. He's begging actives on Twitter. He's at some point appeared to fire some shots yep. I think there were some some tweet about bald asses or something. I don't really know. I'm going, man, I'm just waiting for you to take me there. That's where I'm going. Yeah, so you can go if you want. So basically, Toddy Cohn is really building this up. And then you do where you're gonna go. Then I'll continue on with the one upping that happened. So here I'm gonna I'm gonna go back in history a little bit in whatever episode you and I talked about it, and what we should have been talking about from Wimbley Stadium was the shot that was an incredibly well done shot. Yeah, so what were we talking about right after Wimbley? What was the discussion? Seem punk? All the distractions right, all these things that happened. It took away from the show, what didn't what did? Here's what I took away from Tuesday night. Toy Khan needs to have a handler to keep him off social media. You cannot be the leader of the president, the CEO, the head of creative, all these things of the number possibly two company, not I said possibly number two company. I noticed how you said that? Yet and go on and act like a high school kid. Everything like here, I'll just jump into it. You're going to not acknowledge because he's the king of acknowledging ratings and what AEW does. Yeah, he's not going to acknowledge the spank and they took in the numbers. I'm not a ratings guy, but with the numbers, they took a spanking. What he is gonna say, Oh, he fed with the Undertaker John Ceedy, they would add over a million peers. I'm I'm sorry. So is he bragging that he held them back so much, his shows up so much that he kept them to nine hundred. Now, I just don't know why Tony Khan feels the need to be such a part of this, this tribalism and all this stuff that goes on in wrestling, and why he has to lead to charge because it turns people off. Then it turns people off. I don't know one thing about Tuesday Night from AEW except what I read or listened to you during the week over the past two days. All I know is that everywhere you look, Tony Khan's on social media. Oh, let's let's be a billionaire and talk about two bald guys. Let's talk about how Taker and Sena didn't reach a million and they still spay to you. Why does he keep putting himself out there? Because I feel like, honestly and I have no skin in the game, and he neither direction AEW or WWD or NXT or red Page or Dynamite or all these other things. Why is this happening? And if this is what I'm taking away from what potentially could have been a great Tuesday night for both companies, no matter what the ratings, I'm taking away the guy's supposed to be leading the charge for AW is a high school cheerleader on Twitter. Well, I think, first and foremost, I think Tony Kahn is a fan above anything else, And this is very evident when we come into situation. It's actually very evident every day, from day to day appears to be And that's not even a knock. He's first and foremost a fan. I think that's how he looks at it. Obviously, I can't really say, like, hey, he doesn't have a good business sense, because I'm sure he does, right, he has his hands in a lot of things, but this seems to be like a special project to him, like a collection of h cool toys. Yeah, you know what I mean, And he just gets very into it. But he doesn't have a team though, going back to your he should have a social media team. He doesn't doesn't have a social media team. He doesn't have any team, to be quite frank, he's the booking, he's the I just think for me, it's this he has kind of got up and out of his way. And we talked about this last week when we talked about the the media press scrums they do after the pay per view. He's front and center there and every conversation. Of course, WWE's got in on this too now. But you don't see Triple H sitting out there as he goes on last and he gives a business recap, right, I mean basically it's what he's doing. He's not sitting out there with all the stars right, smiling and and but I think part of it that's what makes Tony Kahan great in a sense because he is such a fan and you can see that love and it kind of bleeds through. But to your point where you're gonna say, at what point do you draw the line in the sand with that? Yeah, when when you and I'm not knocking Tony because he got into this business the same reason the rest of us did. We're a fan of the business. I'm not knocking him for that. I'm saying, come on, dude, you cannot be a fan and still be responsible for toting the load and everything else. You don't see Like, listen, you see Triple H taking picture with new champions in the back right. It's a photo op. It's these days and promotes. It. I get all that Tony wants to give everybody. I'll can take photos and I'd get it, but he's gotta be It's almost like it's like these these independent guys who come into some money and they're run as many shows as they can and be part of those shows as long as they can until it goes south. The only problem is if this ever goes south, Tony Kam has other things to fall back. The people he's leading don't have a lot of options after this, and I feel like there's gotta be you said it. I think there's gotta be a line in the sand where you can still be a fan of the business, but you don't have to be front and center and doing these things like I just feel like he's going out of his way to draw attention to him. There should have been this much talk about Siraya losing the title, but instead all the talks about Tony Kahan and the Jabs that honoring the Sean because they're bald, and the Jabs at Vince and the Jabs taker and seen that, And it's always jabs And it's not just protect your position, protect your company? What's your company over? He keeps putting more light on everything else. But in doing it to me, just let me be the devil's advocate, though, is what this is the other side of the argument. Doesn't didn't Vince mc man do that throughout? Like, what's the difference between and you give me your opinion, I'll give you mine. What's the difference between Vince McMahon in nineteen ninety eight, nineteen ninety seven through two thousand and this or or or just what Vince mc man's on. There's a legitimate there's a legitimate war in that one. There's a legitimate struggle for number one. And but my thing is Vince McMahon mister, and he always went on as mister McMahon. Yeah, the character we're getting the same Tony calm all if that makes sense. Now again, you know Vince McMahon, right, So you're saying, and it's obvious that miss mc mahon's a character, mister mcw what you're saying is, this is Tony Kahn. This is Tony. This is Tony being Tony. And I feel like, you know, ae W's claimed the famous they want to give everybody what they're not getting. But I don't see I see Tony falling into the trap of giving them. It's just to me, it just takes away from the product. Man, It's just it's such a distraction. I don't know what the intention is. And I's say it has of me. You know, I'm fine, But as a fan, if you let's say, like I've been fortunate enough, I have thirty five years in this business, so I kind of look at things a little different than most. But if you're a casual fan and you're seeing this, why am I seeing this guy? Why am I following this guy? And if I don't know, I didn't hear once talk about what And again I could have missed a few things, but I didn't see any video or or conversations or print of Tony talking about how great Tuesday was. He's talking about everything NXT and WW did or did not do right? What about your company put all that time and energy into your people. Yeah, no, I see what you're saying. And I also want to mention that Vince McMahon, mister McMahon, the character kind of happened naturally. He capitalized off of a situation. He didn't have to force the issue. The issue is kind of forced upon him, and that goes back to the really the Montreal Screwjob is where you can really identify where the light was put on Vin sick Mahn for the first time ever. He kind of was commentator and most people, I don't know about most A lot of people didn't even know that he was the owner, right, I mean he just didn't know. It didn't matter, But is that attention was forced upon him. He kind of embraced it and he saw that there was money to be made from it. He didn't force the issue, and it certainly can come across like Tony Kahn just really wants to be a part of the team in every aspect back. He wants to book the shows and that's fine. He wants to do a lot of things, but he also wants to be on television and be a part of the show. He's just kind of forcing the issue. It's you know, he goes from making huge announcements okay dots once in a while he's on TV. Then it goes to apologizing about the punk thing that it's coming out after the shows and doing things with talent and like it. Just again, I'm gonna use the analogy. It's psych a guy who came into a lot of money, had an opportunity to do some wrestling things. He surrounded himself with really cool people in the business and and and and you know, legends and all these things, and he just wants to be one of the boys. Yeah, and that's where that's where he loses. I think fans like myself, like I can't help but read into it. I can't help but realize, like nothing about your two weeks ago, Adam Copland was the biggest thing we're talking about. Aweh. And once again, we're not talking that much about Adam Copa. He just another guy on aw What we're talking about is Tony Kong at the forefront playing you know, your mama jokes and of all things of NXT, you're trying to bag on NXT. But in your ratings, guy, and you wasted over three hundred thousand people. Well, this goes back to Okay, so it's actually been about one year since and thank you all of you joining us. We're going live here for the first time. So here were with us. But this goes back to almost exactly. It's actually almost a year ago exactly that they split off onto different nights with NXT going to Tuesday for whatever reason, I honestly don't remember. Maybe it was just a deal with the USA network, but we always talked about it. Then this time just felt different because we knew it was coming ahead of time. And then I'll get into what I was going to say. They started this one upping going on here, so wwe the last couple of weeks has not really last couple of weeks, last couple of shows. So last week, we'll say, started really throwing names out there they were going to bring in to this. I think they went with Cody Rhodes first, could be wrong, Cody Rhoads, John Cena. Did they announce the Undertaker even? Was that a surprise? Yeah, they didn't announce it, but we all heard about it. We all heard he was going to be there. For those of those that keep up on any sort of pro wrestling news at all, we'll call it news. We heard he was going to be there. So then they announced that we're going to go with the first thirty minutes commercial free. And then for you know, AW says, well, we're going to go at least the first thirty minutes commercial free. Then we're going to do a pre show. We are going to do a pre show. And I don't think WW necessarily had, you know, I was worried about that as much. Right so, the stage was set, you know, Tony kandad a press tour, said a few thinks, sent a few tweets. Then we get going here and immediately NXT's kicks off right with with with a bit with a big announcement from Cody Rhodes. He talks about he's going to bring Dusty Rhoads Sag Team Invitational back, blah blah blah. He's the general manager. That night sets the scene right away, and these were two very different shows. Let me say that to you. And I watched both. I don't know if you did. Did you watch both? I started out, well, let me okay, let me go back to that everybody kept acting like they were watching both somehow. I don't really know how you do that. Uh, I'll be the I mean, you can flip back and forwards. I get that. But what I what I did was I said, I'm going to watch NXT then the then I watched today. Aw, so it is yesterday, the day after I apologize. So I knew I really can't analyze these unless I watch them and full and and I get it. That kind of took away from in the moment, So I can't really tell you this thing was happening the exact same time this was happening, But they were like very different shows. And I think that's so evident with every single week that they have a television show that's just a completely different show. Yeah. But obviously, going back to what you're saying, wwe felt the need to kind of send a statement. It felt like, would you agree with that? Oh yeah, I absolutely feel like they said, Okay, we're pitching pennies and now you want to pitch Nichols, We're gonna pitch quarters. You know, it's a bad analogy, but that's the best way I could put It's like, Okay, you did a belly WoT from the from the edge of the pool, I'm going off the high dive. The problem with that is for the other side is after the high dive, there's nowhere to go for Tony Kahan because all your you know, the chamber's empty. You fired all your bullets, all your people are there, You're not coming, you know. The only thing that could have made that show bigger than NXD was that Jake car Gill would have shown up back on an It's passionately late to NXD though, Yeah, well I believe she has a I believe she has a bigger window of a ride with time than most. It looks like, yeah, I just it was two. I watched them at the same time, because if you put one on your laptop and one on the DV you know, if you do this streaming thing or whatever it is. Yeah, I physically had to change it because I feel like I could have seen that aw match any night of the week, and forgive me, but I think it was I think they starting about with Daniel Brien. Good match, big fan, I think, And it takes a lot to make me change it, but I think I could have seen that good match and that Daniel Brian anytime. But now you've got Cody roose announced in La Night and the Dusty Classic. What else are they gonna do? I'm the new GM. They hooked you. The WWE has that thing of hooking you in the first twenty minutes of every show. A lot of fans and people could play too much time fucking but it works. They you know, for people who do watch the numbers, it works. That's why they stay with the formula that works. And I kept trying to go back and nothing was saying here we are. It was And there's nothing wrong with that because from what I saw that it was a good show. It's not a knock gonna talent. It's not not anything else. It's just if you're gonna do all this one upmanship and all these things before and then the shows speak for themselves. That's why I would have been happy with it. AEW had a good show, n XT came out of the came out of the water with it. They were on fire. So what it showed in the readings? So what nine hundred thousand to six hundred thousand, So what? But here comes Tony adding fuel to the fire. Now poking the bear Yeah, So what didn't work for you before sure is hell fire isn't gonna work for you after. And now we're not even talking about your talent and your show and the things you try to create. We're talking about you getting on social media and stop trying to be the front runner when you're surrounded by talent and legendary people that can carry the load and do that stuff. All of Chris Jericho's work is swept under the rug because all we're talking about is Tony Khan. And if that's what it's for, then it's doing its purpose for Tony, but it's not helping the talent or the brand out in my opinion, Like that's all I can go to. All this week is when we should be talking about wrestling. We're talking about the after effects again. And then just let me add a little more to it. I just read before we came on the air, and I'm saying I read it because I didn't hear it. I read we're cmpunkos. This is why I'm glad I'm not there anymore because of the after effect. Except this social media and this talking and all this. You know, I hadn't heard that yet. It's interesting, Uh, So you talked about the rating numbers, big divide and the gap of who what was watched. But I think as you look at if you get outside the Uncle Dave calls it the key demo, there's just such a huge margin and a difference between the younger crowd and the older crowd because they're both watching the next team by far more. Yeah. But then again, we talk about the key demo every week, and really last year when we were going head to head and obviously an next he takes that home by a mile or two because you can't. And people kind of seem like they're like, that's unfairw did that. I'll be the first I'll just say, if Tony Kahn could brought the Undertaker there for that night, he would have. Well, yeah, I mean they did it because they could. Yes, if Tony Cohn could have done it, trust me, he would have done it. He threw everything he did at Unfortunately for him, it was a and I think, no matter what, if you're on a different night, you are going to struggle. I don't think it, man, I don't. I don't know if you can match that. I mean, does anybody match that on a regular basis? That they change the night. I mean, yeah, I agree with what you're saying, but I also look at it as so let's use w W when they have to. You know, they're preempted by the adult show. You know, every year the canine thing comes up, and you know they have to do one a different time or whatever the heck the case is. I think that this would have been a great opportunity for Tony to showcase some other talent. Yeah, but on a good show, and and and let the ratings and everything speak for itself, because we would have been talking about the show they put on. But instead it's it's now you're you're reinforcing the fact that you've got beat, but you're saying, ah, we got beat, but their best guys didn't really crush this thing beat. It's really bad. I get it. I will say this, I lost where was thing the other night? I don't know? Well why not? What are your biggest draw if we was staying the other night? If you're trying to go head to head because they don't, because they don't they're not developed in the sense where they have that to do that. They've used sting every week, right, So follow me what you just said is absolutely right. So you know what I'm saying about Tony k Let's sleeping dogs lie you your time to your show out to where you're vignette of Tony Storm was in picture and picture and you didn't even get to see this vignet that they pumped up because it was during a commercial. Let's talk about those things. Why don't we focus on your group of people, your your unbelievable talent pool that you have and all these things. That's the thing, And I told you, I said at the beginning, this is the only thing that's on my mind about wrestling this week. I'll say it. The wrestling was better on AW. The wrestling, yeah, by far better on AW NXT. I actually thought the what did they call the the pub match entertaining and it's a good time. But the other matches, even with Dominique Stereo Carmela Hayes, they were all standard w matches. But this is where it stood out to me as I watched both and hear me out here, WWE did it a really good job of promoting the upcoming shows. And this is where aw's just gone off the hinges and they're getting worse at and I like watching AW. I, like so many of the people on there, WWE, I believe set up four or five match upcoming matches, AW set up two and going onto the show. They did build it as this title night right right, but a w as of late, you don't know what's going to be on when, what what the matches are going to be, what you're tuning into. And that's one thing they've got away from. And they're doing a pretty bad job at and and they're they were here in Indianapolis recently. Yep. No hardly any local promotion at all. They're going to these small towns and they're and they're struggling getting people there. From what I understand, their pay per view buys are okay, but as far as the tendance, it's gone down. It's struggled. And a lot of the stuff I'm seeing is just they're not promoting locally. And I'll tell you who does an excellent job with that. It's WWE. Yeah. When they go to your town, they're on your news channel, they're making public appearances, they're building up their arrival, and they have done that since I was a kid. They have done that the whole time I've been alive. They've been known for that. They they kind of have these like tricks they do. I don't know if they do it much anymore, but they hook you. They will promise you, you know, like John Cena versus The Rock. It may not be on TV though they didn't say a TV right, so they make you want to go there and watch it because I know I've watched one in Evansville and it was seeing Punk and Daniel Bryan back in the day they weren't on TV together, but but damn it, I went there to watch that match and it did happen afterwards, did have a real finish. No, but as promised, as promoted way ahead of time, way ahead of time, and they delivered. And if they don't do that, they say you're going to see superstars like in the list five of them on But to me where the big difference where I'm starting to see in the storyline. WWE continues to progress it throughout their show. Whether the wrestling matches are great or not, that's up for debate. But they did a great job this week of setting up multiple Halloween havoc matches, promoting multiple NXT matches next week, and we got two different. We got a collision match Christian cagell defend the title. But my point is the progression of the storyline at WW is a whole other level. But the matches, the matches were really good. On AEW, I enjoyed the matches. They were great, But WW, it's just hard to beat somebody that's been doing it for fifty years when you have a guy. Let me ask you this, if I we'll we'll play well, we'll do a little role playing for all those people tuning in right now. I'm gonna I'm gonna play the role of WWE. You're gonna play the role of ae W. We're gonna do the promotion like you said, because this is how it works. But now you have in your stable and behind the scenes Jeff Jarrett, Christian cage Chris Jarretto, Edge, Adam Copeland however you want to call him. Those are just four and I'll give you page as well as soriah All who've been part of those those events and promoting things and know how it's done. Why are we not picking their brain? Why are we not Why is Jeff Jarrett not running that part of it? Where's the team here? That's say up to Tony hey Man? Where is Where's Wardlow at every town doing? You're not doing anything with them? Where's Miro, You're not doing anything with him? Where's Nyla Rose? Where's thunder Rose? Where's all these people that you're not doing anything with that can't be out there promoting these times? Like how hard is it to try it? And why not with the same energy to that what you're talking about as opposed to putting the energy into doing these after show two day social media things? Because what he gained fifty thousand more likes, couple followers, thumbs up, retweets, posts, But what's that doing for his business? Where the heck is wordloke? Like you crushed everything that Hobbs and Chris Jericho did because no one's talking about it. I don't care if Taz and Shavanni you are talking about it next week, that's their job. They have to talk about it. No one's talking about it now. And he has the tools, it just seems like he doesn't want to use them. You think he says no, how to use them? I can't. I would like to not think that he's so hard to reach or talk to. Someone couldn't make him see that, But I honestly don't. I don't know what the endgame is. Like I said, I'm not on me. It had Dustin roods of Billy Gunn, Dean Maliko, all these guys that have been part of the machine for so Art Anderson. Let's take all the WWE people that he asked. Now, let's take all the guys who made their names in Japan, in Mexico all about how to promote themselves and everybody else where. We're missing something, and by we, I think the fans miss out on more things like you're talking about, like get me hooked me, bring me to these shows, make me want to go, let me get my advanced tickets, let me do this, let you know. And I just think the folk, I don't know what the focus is on. I think it's just happy to be here and we got this cool TV deal and and when it goes, it goes. But what you know, back to your original question, the WCW ANDWWF, we're fighting for breathings, fighting for these things and working towards that. The one upmanship still relied on the talent and how you put the talent out in the stories and and what you were try coming to your town. You though we were working triple overtimed media both sides, w CWN WWE. So to your point, I just see the things that are missing and for what four years in though it should be it should be part of the blueprint. I agree, it's it's the it seems like little things. But that seems to be like what's finally not to be the biggest thing to me? I think AW has dynamite six hundred thousand people that are gonna watch Come Hell or high Water. I do, and it'd be obviously probably has NXT, probably has around that. I mean they might have around that too, But it's gonna be the big thing for AW is how do you get more people to watch it than aren't right now? And the first thing that's not the first thing, but we try to get a CM pub We try to get an Adam Copeland. Is that good enough? I think you got to go and do the things that we're talking about. Story Wise, yeah, not much progressed, a lot of freaking title changes and some good matches. Like I said, I'll say it again, better matches than the next t W had better matches. A bunch of title change I don't. I don't really know why or where they're going to go from there. Like Uh I said, I'll say page just so everybody knows what I mean. Losing the title didn't make a heck of whole lot of sense Orange Cassidy, because it really kind of advertised Dean Ambrose up until last minute. We knew Dean Ambrose. He got her, He got her pretty bad getting dropped on his head. But that's another story that we've talked about. It's just a lot of title changes that I don't know where they're going to go from there or why they didn't. There was no build up to them. I love seeing uh swerve strict. I think he's awesome. I think he gets better. I think he gets better every week. So where we seeing these gap and they're trying to revamp ward Low, which is good. There's they are developing a few guys at a time. But you have to be able to do that in a story that grabs people's attention, not really just spectacle right, Like it's hard to get a real good spectacle person in wrestling these days, and that's what WW can do and they're evident of that. We've got John Cena crowd went nuts for Johnson. I mean that that they went nuts for john Cena there. And the thing about the the NXT that I like is it's it's consistent. The crowd is consistent, clear back from when you were there. Bill, It's I don't I assume it's the same people going. I mean it, they're so invested in. Yeah, I'm sure there's a large a large amount that have still been there since the beginning. Yeah, and they're so invested in It reminds me of local independent wrestling, to be honest, and I think as AW continues to travel that don't They don't work every day, but you got to get into that marketplace and you have to be consistent, you have to start to build something. And that's where I think n XT kind of kind of goes way from print. I did think there was also the they got to always do something. And you know WW does a bunch of silly stuff, but NXT does too. The young bucks will do their thing h j y and they did that thing with the not it wasn't j whye, but they did that joke with the quarters. Uh. They always got to do something. But in the end, ultimately they can't just rely on an edge to get that more of yours. I don't think that's gonna be what's gonna do it. Seeing Punk boosted the ratings some at some points in time, but I don't think there's any single person that they can really fall back on and and and do. Yeah, that's ww can at any point in time. And I think you're right. That was a statement. And and so here's another part of the show that really that really told me they're not interested in furthering stories. And the part of the show I'm talking about is when the commentators, the three man team were talking about how Chris Jericho was sent to the hospital, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh yeah, he's doing all these things if they rushed to the hospital and all these things. But on a later note, we got Christmas toys? Who is setting that up? Oh no, there's so much see what I mean, it's so much time focused on ha ha, Wait till this show's over. When I go on social media, fix the things that because if it's not important enough for you to talk about, And now you're gonna tell me how you got fifty thousand dollars worth of toys when your biggest star you're doing angle these rusts in the hospital. You buy it on a lighter note, on a you know, let's casual note, and we got this Christmas, so you totally threw it away when we When Aew has probably the best talk around the microphone right now in MJF, why is he not out doing media all over the place instead of these podcast bits and pieces. You're telling a story about how we got bullied with the quarters and Juice Roppison. Why are we not talking about that? Because that show doesn't matter as much as let me do my thing. After Tony's not bringing people in with what he's doing, He's turning people away. And sooner or later there's gonna be talent just there for the paycheck. And when the paycheck runs out, they're gonna come to where they know they can do business. Yeah, because they have a ton of potential that could be doing exactly what you're talking about, building stories, furthering them, going into the talents, bringing your bringing your buyer rates up, and all these other things. But yet that's not the focus. And after after one year, okay, there's a learning two years okay, now we're getting our feet wet. Sophomore year, three years, four years. You went to Wimbley with eighty one thousand whatever. The debate is on that number now, but you went with eighty one thousand people, and we're back to talking about stupid stuff that's being said and down on social media and nothing about the talent and what they've done. We are, I believe, just as an update for everybody listening, we are now live on Bill Dumont's Twitter page. Yes we are. That guy just got it plugged in there. I was working on that behind the scenes while you're doing your rant. So we'll go back through and yeah, this is of course a live episode. Here is we're talking about on the Bilvant Experience. We're talking about NXT versus WWE. Yeah, great points that you made there, completely, Bill, I do want to say something. I just want to throw something out there and you tell me if I'm right or wrong. Okay, Aside from Roman reigns, I really do think what they have with Christian Cagees is top heel. I know you don't like the word caliber. You might be the best heill of professional wrestling outside of Rowan Rains, who's not regularly there at this moment. So do you think they did a good job on the show leading into that well one. I kid argue with the Christian cage analogy. I think he's, you know, he's one of the best of all time. But I think he goes back to the original question. I don't think they're using it to its full potential. I feel like there's there's almost I'm trying to think of the right word so it doesn't come out. I almost feel like, and I guess because he said he's the end, an'll do all creed of everything else. I almost feel like Tony's afraid to let the pigeons loose. Like you brought these young cats in here because they were they were fresh, and they had a new perspective on the business, and let's let him fly right. And now you have these veterans, you have the same mentality with a little bit more knowledge. Why not let them loose and see where it goes. I feel like there's always that that little bit of holding back, holding back not everything, but if you don't give us everything with a Christian cage, and you keep giving us the in and outs of Hobbs and Wardlow and and all these other people, and the city now Soriah dropped the title. I mean even Orange Cassidy the other night didn't look enthusiastic about becoming champion. Is that just me? It just didn't have the same feel to it. It didn't. It was just something that they did again exactly, there was no build up. No, you may get John Moxley, Well you aren't going to get John Moxley and Orange Cassidy enters Orange Cassidy and he wins. But does it matter because was the guy that was a champion now even't supposed to be the champion, right, we covered that. I mean, I don't know how much we're off for about a month, but going back to the incident and getting the injury and kind of changing up on the moment, Yeah, evidently it's very evident now that there was never a plan for him to be the champion, Ryan, I mean, so where do they go from here? You know, now Warrence Cassidy has it again. Did you give him another great run like he had the first time? Or is he just gonna slip on the banana peel and you know the best friends are going to bring up a Tremporetta gets it. I mean, where where are we going to go? Is Willow Nightingale gonna come out of nowhere again because we don't see her every week? What she build a lament them? Is she going to beat the new champion? And why would you have the same girl win the championship over and over again? At least if it was someone, if sky Blue would have beat Sarayah, at least there's something to talk about. What the what the heck gifts happen here? This came out of nowhere? Yep, you get this former champion. And again, it's not a knock on the talent. It's not one as if you were watching this, you're not giving me a reason to tune into your other show or to come back next week, because I know I can just see it any time I want, and they're just gonna give me some good wrestling. It's not a knock on the talent. It's just where are they going? What's the There's gotta be an endgame at least when in the WWE from experience, there's a nine month, twelve month, fifteen month grid of storyline, okay, and within that grid there's the potential for, well, if someone gets hurt, who's the backup? Who do we build whose built, who can carry on? Who can take the ball wrong with the YadA YadA YadA, knowing what I just told you about the grid that's built from from for six pay per views out, do you think that AW has that same approach? No, it certainly has the scene that way. Yeah, And to be honest with you, I can't. Stuff happens and you have to make changes, right, right, that's evident. But it doesn't seem like AW is out in front and any any sort of booking. And now, yeah, like I don't really know what's gonna happen next week, and you think that like that could be like if you're just thinking, like I'm gonna tune in because I never know what's really gonna happen, That's not really how it works on television. You gotta have a cliffhanger because like in a show, right, like they'll give you a clip in next week or how the episode ends before on a normal television show, let's say, even though it didn't tell you what was gonna happen next week, you know what can happen, right or or or you know there's gonna be a situation a situation right And when you don't leave any sort of cliffhanger at all. That is that is really hard and that was a that was very much so the case with AW But going back to NXT, they did try to incorporate some of these things into a storyline. But like the bron Breaker match with Carmelo, they had the advocate there, Paul Hayman on one side, John Cena's on the other. That was just a just showmanship. Yeah, that was for you got nothing out of that right story wise, but you got John Cena in there. John Cena got in a position where he is going to advance his storyline with the blood line. Carmelo has a couple of different ways they can go, and he certain seems like him and his partner are going to be a cross right roads eventually because there's some jealousy there, there's some impatience there. So even though the match itself did not have a purpose between maybe the two individuals in that match in that moment, what they did do was do a good job about developing for further developing along about two or three more storyline right, so instead of two people in the ring, five people have moved forward. Yeah, even with the brawling brutes in the pup match. Yep, we are now, we are now set and programmed to know that, oh my gosh, his name Escageley is now part of the Brawling Brutes because we don't know where Seamus is now. Now we know that the Brawling Brutes are still a three man team, and this kid fits right in baits Tyler Bates, right, yeah, and a good, good, good athlete, good good yet really good athlete. But to your point, they built everything around Trick. Uh, you know Carmelo's sidekick. Yep, he's got more play now just being mentioned and all these things. And then you've got real Ripley who kind of does this little thing with jay Uso, but now she did it with Trick, like, yeah, girl, he caught her. He know. It's all those little things, right, those little those little nuggets. But to your point, two people are in the ring, but five people Furthered their their story. So it's it's sometimes that it's not about just having the best wrestling. We already know that Daniel Brian is allan for one of the best, if not the ever best ever. Yeah yeah, he's we don't need to know that, But what where's the story. What's he doing? Next what he said he retired, He's gonna retire in one year, but now he's just got a different opponent. You think he did swerve any good? I think him being on TV and a more consistent manner does does him well. But she swerved more consistent, it does him well. It doesn't hurt to be in the ring with with uh the American Dragon. But I put it to you like this, what are we gonna see? Where's Lama? Where's mirror and Lama? When they started that up? Where where's Wardlow? Again? The beauty's telling where's Wardlow? But you know he dropped some power bombs? He gotta, he gotta, Oh what's his name? I can't believe, don't drawing a blank on who he faced? Where? Where's mass side l He mats s you didn't see that the power bomb of the Hunter times? And yeah, but listen, did you have you seen Wardlowe do that before? Oh? Yeah, then where's Wardlow? Where's the new and improved Wardlow? We're still trying to figure that out. I got an idea. Laugh, I didn't do a moon saw? Why do that a whole time? Yeah? But this time? Laugh? He wardlo here's my idea seventeen power bombs. So you see reinvention of Wardlee. It's the same thing. Well, you have all My point is you have all these talent, all these things, and it's just I feel like Orange Cassie's reaction to becoming champion again is the reaction of that whole show. I hadn't thought about it till you said that. But then again, I didn't know that Orange Cassidy even wanted the title so to Yeah, I mean I hadn't even thought about it. I didn't know why the match was happening. I guess it's title night. You had to defend the title. You didn't get MJF in a match, which which is fine. You didn't get John Cena directly in a match either, but you got Edge in a match and it was a pretty good match. Yeah. I thought it was a good match. But are you talking about Adam Copeland this week the way we talked about him two weeks ago? Is it be two weeks? Uh? Yeah? Has even I mean I could go is he is red hot last on Tuesday? I know we're talking about him after the show and continuing on what he did this week, or we talking about something else? And it's just something that he did. Yeah, well, we know we're talking, we're talking about this, so obviously we're not just answer your question straight up, we're not. Yeah, and it's and to me, that's that's the problem, because whether you like the Rustler or not, on NXT, you're talking about that show and now the guy who ran opposition and through the barbers with the ball and the one upmanship. And I get all that before these shows, but after the show, he's just reminding us that he got beat. So you're gonna knock the umtaker rather than of the ring in forever. And I believe his stuff came on after, right was. I don't. I can't tell you how everything lined up exactly. I know they both had permission to go over and and I know Tapers went over. It's the big thing on the media buzz with him and Carmelo Leebin with the you know, the Brothers of Pain, you know, doing their thing and all that stuff. But it's just come on, listen. Here's here's the way I'd say. You saw Cody Roach in the in the in the show, come out of the elevator with the kid holding the thing. The little kid needs a resting podcaster, and Cody had a guy do his Instagram for him to follow it, and then Cody took his own phone because his handler does his social media, and then followed the kids showed him and got him tickets to wrestle Mabia which is until April. Going back to your point of furthering bushing shows and all these things, why can't Tony come on have a handler, whether he wants to make that handler of TV character so you can put only eat on this dune cuff for writing the wrong stuff that he's trying to say or what. But we talked about it many many episodes ago. If you want to be the booker, you can't be one of the boys. If you want to be the booker, you can't be the main event there. He has the difference with Vince mick because Vince McMahon, historically speaking, is involved in everything, right, but he's not one of the boys. Right, Hey, And even I think I was listening to or watching rvd's new pat podcast he's doing, and he and they said, what are the difference between Tony Kahn and his opinion? Like did how did they come across to me? Right? Obviously vins wick Man is intimidating and wants to and bar RVD thought as if he wanted to be that way intimidating businessman Tony Kahn down to earth kind of one of the boys. So I think that that's immediately where the difference is. Vince wmic mann and we hear reports now that that Triple H is pretty much so steering the creative ship day to day stuff. But Vince mc mannon was involved in everything. You always hear these stories, and there was this really funny story that I heard. I think it was Bruce Prichard. Pat Patterson and Bruce would go along with Vince. They'd travel with Vince. Everything was wrestling twenty four to seven. You know, I remember the story where Pat Patterson and I'm not going to get it exactly right, but pat Patterson went there at a truck. They're at a rest stop or something, but pat Patterson went to the stall to get away from Fitz mcmahone. This is because it was so much even for Pat Patterson and Bruce Richard, who are accustomed to it after years and years yep, in decades. But uh Man sends in the stall next to him, pulls out the pulls out the notebook and starts talking business. Can't get away from investment? Man was that involved with Yes, But to your point, at no point in time, even though he was in matches and stuff, and he probably was closer to some superstars than others. Probably obviously, I don't think he'd come across as the one of the boys ever. No, ever, And you speak, go ahead and speak from experience. Yeah, I mean he he the thing that Vince always, in my opinion, let you know that you were important to the product. That's why you were there. Everything he did was important. You need to know that. You need to know you at the opportunity and the ability to steal a show and become what you want to become. But he never sat with you and had a beer with you and oh let's do this stuff. It never happened. He lets you know, he's the boss. My way to the highway. He could be very personal when when needed, you know what I mean. But he was the boss. He wasn't there to to build a club or camaraderie with him and his the people that work for him. I think Tony has people that he likes to work alongside of him, right, and Vince has been and even Hunter Hunter have people that work for them. Yeah, but they let that be known from the John And it's still the same amount at Kumbaya on the WW side, is there is on the NIX he doesn't. It's just I feel like at four plus years in, you have to have a better grasp of what you're trying to do and if there's no endgame, then make one. But I cannot see a Jeff Jarrett. I cannot see a all the brains that are back there, the the talent, the amount of time that people have in this business that either they feel they can't approach him because no matter what they say, Tony's just gonna do his thing. And now let me just collect my check. All the things that we didn't want to do as youngsters, I think people are willing to do as they're older selves. Now, does that make sense? Yeah? And I think, hey, I'm not going to rock the boat. I'm here, I'm on the roster. And you know who you know who rocked the boat? Cody Rose, Jade Cargill nod. My goodness. If Kenny o'mager and JF left there, now, my goodness, I think just does a really good job about building to the future. They give those people a platform to really become something, and they'll do movies, they'll do various other things. I will watch aew till the end of time to watch the good matches. I just that's not going to be the case for any new viewers. And I think as we wrap up this conversation, that's the biggest thing to me. I think me and about five or six hundred other thousand people will watch it for the matches. I don't know how you get and I don't think they want to get children invested. First of all, that does not seem to be the thing, which is fine. That that's perfectly fine, But as you look at some of the breakdown of the numbers, like I said earlier, n XT older crowd, younger crowd by far. We always talked about the key demo whatever. But though they're by far watching in XT ANDW understandably so it's it's kind of directed to them more. But I'll ask you this is the last question. We talked about a couple of things that AW can do to get more on a consistent basis, storyline telling and all that better promoting, because I think the Live WW has great production value and they can hide a lot of lack of crowd engagement. Yes, but I can still tell watching it on television to you, is that a big thing that you see an opportunity in aaw It just I know that they're not shooting on the side, that the people aren't there, But are you seeing that level of interest in the crowd and is that is that important to you when you're watching TV, like seeing the crowd's reaction. Do you get into that watching it at home? Well, I think it's a distraction when you know they talked about especially during the COVID when they were piping in the crowd and all that stuff, and you're literally seeing people sit there, but the noise is unbelievable. I think it's a distraction. I'm I'm and again I say, I look at it differently. While I'm watching the match, I'm also watching who's involved and wait a minute, am I missing something? Like if they're into it? Am I missing something? Or if I'm into it and they're not. So that's the kind of thing that I look for. There's gotta be more to it than just waiting for someone's song. There's got to mean more to it than just you know, hey, am I gonna see this person or not? Or am I you know someone gonna come out over the We see a lot more of their fact when guys go over the barrier and girls go over the barrier and stuff. I think they could do a better job of getting the people invested and I don't. And but here's the thing. I'm going to go back to my soapbox. I don't think the thing that gets that going before the show and after the show is Tony Kahn him coming out addressing live audiences before the TV starts or something, and then or before you know, a paid event or after an event coming out and doing something with the stars. It's not that's not the draw for me to come back, because we don't have a reason to want to see him right right, there should be no. I would much rather. I'd be more intrigued with the genius Tony Kahm who started AD E W and it's got this new generation of wrestlers combining with legends and all these things. That's why I be intrigued. But now you see it here from him so much. I don't think they could have taken the blueprint from WWE, and and and at least tried to reinvent the wheel at least try to take some of that and put their flavor on it, right, put their stink on the same thing and make it a better business model. But there's got to be more than just putting on a couple of shows today, aving YouTube hits it all these things, And what happens when what happens when those guys are doing that anymore? When the Kenny stop or decides to retire, the young Bucks stop doing all their stuff, and the Mexican guys get rehired somewhere else and do it, then what do you do. You've got to come up with something that makes me want to come back. AW has having a hard time balancing television and live entertainment. I think it's very evident. I don't know which one they're focusing on or going after. I don't think there's an even balance. But I can't tell you which one way or the other. But from a television standpoint, you got a point with the I mean they're gonna have great matches. You continue to watch a Heck, I did that with Ring of Honor forever. Yeah, even a probably underrated storytelling. I think we're Ring of Honor, and I know I said we're wrapping it up, but Ring of Honored a good job of that in the ring though. The storytelling in the ring and all that, yes, and I think we're wrestling is to it's WW and AW, you gotta be a really special cat to tell those stories inside the ring at such a strong rate. We rely on segments and promos and stuff a lot now, whereas in the pest, to me, just my opinion, a lot of that storytelling could take place in the ring as it related to the subject manner, and I think that is where AW has got to find a balance at And that's my final thoughts on the topic. No that I agree, I think everything you've said. I agree with everything you've said tonight. I just like I said, I'm like that old crotchity, God keeps coming back to the same thing. And again, I think the talent's amazing on both sides of the fence. Again, you can never talk about them when you can't do what they do. They're amazing athletes, entertainers, wrestlers on both sides, both the men and the women on both sides. But I feel like one company does them more justice than the other. And I think to your point, it's finding that balance. But geez, I don't think you have four more years to find it. I think now that windows closing a little bit more as we go, because ww's back out on the road and they're coming to your town and you don't want to run a talent after them or the week before them, because they're gonna take the funds man, They're gonna take it. Do you think this will be the last thing I ask you? It really will be. Do you think Tony Cohn really thought he was gonna I don't kick their ass in the ratings? Do you really think he thought that? I think when he in the initial start, I thought he came out of the gates hot and goes, you know what, we got them. We got them, and it was a great starting point. The problem is history. History leans towards knowledge, right, and history leans towards experience and all these things. And that's why I keep saying, lean on the people you have there with that experience, who have been through the wars, whether they're in the ring as active participants or not. Their minds are incredible. The way they think what they've been through, what they've learned, what they know. Let them share that with not only the talent, let them share that with you, boss, let them let them sit you down and go. If he has such a relationship with these guys, I feel like someone should be able to sit down and go. Listen, all due respect, boss, let's start, you know, let's start really grinding here. Otherwise we're gonna have a lot of fun for two hours every Tuesday and Friday and whatever else. And it's it's it's time that the the honeymoon's over. Trying to find an identity. Yeah, yeah, other than three letters, all elite is not all elite anymore. Let's let's defy what AEW means and let's get people, you know, let's get people moving and put the right people in the right places. But for the love of beat, give someone your phone and stay off social media. Yeah, and I'll be a lot more nice than a lot of people are. In my opinion, it was pretty close on which was the better show. You're not gonna say that, well, no, no, no, other than the numbers. Like, if we're dealing with numbers, and I know Tony's the big numbers guy. If you go with the numbers, it was a shellaki. As far as the shows themselves, they were good shows, rival neck to neck. But my old thing was, that's not what we're talking. We should have been diving into this match here and this match here, and now they compare and it's not but we're not. We're talking when you're writing good television. Everything happens for a reason, yes, but we didn't get that. We we have any other Andonance Russo speaks on that controversial guy but wrote television and he talks about that, why you know, having things happen for a reason, And I think that's where we lack there. Man, what a great discussion. And again this was our first time to go in live, and we'll continue to do this and we'll have the display and all that will be printed up in a little bit better But we literally threw this together in about fifteen minutes while ago I Love got bills count locked out for about an hour. But we're good now. Yeah, build a mood experience. Man, this is a little bit different kind of an episode. We'll get back on track next week, but I think we'll continue to incorporate the live I certainly don't think it hurts anything. We'll start doing a better job of plugging it, and we're gonna try next week our best to get into this bray Wyatt deep dive. I'm going to use the stream yard here. We're going to get some videos, some promos, and different things we can do to help honor bray Wyatt. So to me, big show next week, man, I'm excited. I'm actually it's actually been kind of nerve wracking it because I want it to be good. I really liked our us title thing that we did, and I am I am saying this for a reason because we do have a good back catalog here as we close in. This will be the thirtieth episode, and we're gonna get back to that evergreen content and we'll appreciate it. We'll try to do a better job of getting out there and getting this promoted for live because I think there's it's this is pretty neat. So I'm excited to kind of segue into what we're doing on here. Yeah, I think it's it's always cool and I and I appreciate your look. I'll put it to you. You're always thinking ahead, right, It's it's kind of the theme of this episode, but I appreciate. I like this this format a lot, and I think, don't look this. So here be my old man advice to you. Don't overthink the pray whire thing. It's gonna be a great tribute episode and it's gonna do exactly what we want to do with make tribute to the Big Bab in our own way. And I like this format. And uh, it's his mustache set me off on Twitter. He said, Hey, are you guys gonna talk about a w and and then xt and I went all, hell, yeah, we're gonna see I like the episodes. I like it when there's more of a focal point. I do love answering the fan questions and all that. We always set aside time to do that, but for me, it's hard to go everywhere. Yeah, so I do like it when there's a topic like tonight we stayed, we went off on some rabbit holes. Yeah, but it's there's a topic, there's a message at the end of the day, and we've covered that in great detail. That's I do like doing that a lot. But yeah, we'll always make time to get your questions in, so please continue to send them on Twitter. I'm at podcast father he's build them on. We're pretty much so that on everything. What do you point out, Bde what point your vitamins? Oh? Yeah, my vitamins the hard hat Gottley. If you're pointing me, I'm the other way on my screen. I don't know who way you are on your screen. Anyway, there you go, there you go. Yeah, those got his vitamins and we'll make sure we get all hooked up brother for next week. Go to build him out dot com, check out the foundation and of course all the past episodes. You can also email us at build Them Up Pod at gmail dot com. Closing closing thought A stoic quote, what do you have Bill? Wanting being first is second? Wanting to be first should be your first? Oh? I like that a lot. I'm gonna go to my usual and put this one to bit until next time. Keep being you and keep being great Back Model days, Jeff Townsend Media saves you good night, And the question is do I stay here? Will you be back? Are you going to come back? Will you be back? Are you coming back
