What's she gonna do? Brother? When Jeff Townsend Media runs wild on you. Have you been searching for a podcast? Do you want to learn from some great content creators? Well you've come to the right place, Indie Podcasting with your host, Jeff Townsend, the Indie podcast Father. Alright, alright, alright, this is Jeff Townsend. Thank you for checking out another episode of Indie Podcaster. This podcast has made for podcasters and other content creators. Certainly don't consider myself a guru, or either do any of my friends that will be featured in these episodes. But what we do like to do is talk content creation, pick each other's brains, and have a good time. I'm proud to mention that this podcast is sponsored by Indie Dropping. Now let me tell you something about Indie Dropping. This is an awesome network that my friend Greg is created. What he does is drop episodes from independent content creator into his established podcast audience on his feed, and he shares your episodes to an audience that already exists. Yes, it's like free advertisement and promotion for your podcast. He spent a lot of time, money, and effort building it, and he already has an audience that interested in the content and he can certainly help you by sharing your content is great promotion. Go to indie drop in dot com slash creators and check it out. If you're a comedy, true crime, paranormal, or various other different kinds of podcasts, you can benefit from this. So I really encourage you once again, good at indie drop in dot com slash creators and see if you can get your stuff featured on indie drop in. We'll go back to the podcast here Indie Podcasters. So what we've currently been doing is sharing content from three different projects that I'm involved in. The first is Good Morning Podcasters with my good friend Fuzz Martin. We also do some content on podcasting Sucks. And then in these episodes you will also hear some content from podcasting Power Hour. Podcasting Power Hour is a live thing we do on Twitter spaces. We get a whole bunch of great podcast minds together we talk podcasting. So if you're a content creator a podcaster, I think you'll take something away from every episode of the content I'm going to share with you. With that being said, make sure you check out Eddie drop in and make sure you enjoy this episode. I think it's important that we all continue to learn and grow every day, and that will help us become even better content creators. That's certainly what I try to do, learn something new every day. I'm excited to share this content with you. I think it'll be a learning experience for you. Let's get to this episode, and I hope you have a great time listening to it. Welcome to Podcasting Power Hour with your host Jeff Townsend aka the Indie podcast Father. I'm your co host, Greg from Indie drop in Network. Podcasting Power Hour is recorded live every Monday at nine pm Eastern Time on Twitter spaces. Every week, an experienced panel of podcasters and other experts will tackle your podcasting questions. Special guests on the panel today Fuzz Martin cso at Epic Creative, James Cridlin, editor at Podnews Aerial Nissenblatt, founder of Earbuds podcast collective and community manager at squadcast FM. Jennifer Furbo, founder and CEO of Javision Advertising, Mark Binder, founder of Pad Tricks, Jack Resider, host of Darknet Diaries. We will of course put links to all of our guests and any relevant information in the show notes. All right, let's get this party started, all right, we might as well get started here. So we've been doing this for I think this is what this is the third week, fuzz. So every week's got a little bit bigger and better. As far as the number of people are my right, fuzz, I think, yeah, it's at least third and maybe fourth, probably third. So we've been getting a lot of positive feedback and a lot of content creators are just very thankful. So I went ahead and invited some more people to come to the space and give us, give us more help and more advice for the podcast community. I have Jack Resider. I invited him. He obviously has built his podcast Darkness Diaries from the ground up and makes a living doing it now. So Jack Man, I think, thank you for taking the time to give out some advice. Yeah, I'm glad to be here. Yeah, and you're right, it's gone from zero to uh I think five hundred thousand downloads pre episode now and yeah, this's my full time job, so happy to share any any wisdom I've learned over the years. Appreciate it definitely. And Jen is here. She has dealt with some pretty big clients in the advertising and marketing space, so Jen thanks for join in space. Well, thank you for the invite. I really appreciate it. And yes, I'm happy to be here and to help out and give any tips and advices at marketing advertising. I'm happy to be here. And of course the man, the myth, the legend, mister James Crisling from pod News. He made it here today. We had a we had a we had a meeting set once and he slept through it. So it's a little bit later in your day though, James, So thanks for taking the time to John it is. Yes, it's eleven o'clock in the morning tomorrow, so greetings from Australia. It's the perfect time for you. You know, everybody else says it's it's a little late. You know, people in the UK are upset about it, but for James, it is the perfect time. Yeah, it's pretty good being out. I've had mccoffee. Yeah, so everything's everything's good here. So, like I said earlier, we're really just taking the time to talk through some of the challenges that you guys have going on this week with podcasting, orgeous podcasting in general. With that being said, we'll get into it. Mark Binder, I know that you sent a request in and I've missed it. Let me send you the invite. So Mark ahead and introduce yourself, because you just created a podcast hosted. Yeah, So my name's Mark Binder created a pat Tricks that's a podcast hosting platform focused around keeping the podcast create or creative. Basically, the whole philosophy with what I'm trying to build is your job as the podcaster is to create engaging content for either five people or or as you know, Jack has done five hundred thousand people. The technology is supposed to enable you to do that and not focus around infrastructure, So creating features you know, to reach market parody, but also to you know, surprising delight the podcaster as we move forward. Awesome. So you have some questions that you want to ask. These people are much more experienced than me. I try to surround myself with people that are better than me. I think it's important to learn something new every day. I think we can all take that. So what do you got? Mark? The main thing is, as I'm starting to go into the surprise and delight phase of features, I would really love to hear what you know the big creators and small creators alike what features they're either missing from their podcast hosts or wish we're better. So basically, i'd love to hear what your features, your experience is, what platforms you like, which platforms you hate? Why? So you specifically you have a podcast hosting provider, Is that what you're running? Yes, So, just like every website on the internet has a home as an ip address, so does every audio file. That's where padricks fits in. It's where your audio physically lives online. Yeah, this is a tricky place too. I mean when you when I see people ask me this question sometimes and it's tricky to answer straight away because you really need to nail the basics first, right, You have to nail the is this available twenty four hours? Like this podcast must be available twenty four hours a day all around the world, and you know, as quick as to download as possible. You can't have lags where you know and be slow at downloading episodes when people need it, and so you know, that's that's number one, and number two is having analytics and statistics of what's what's going on, an easy way to upload, an easy way to put your image on there, put the descriptions on there, like all there's a whole bunch of mechanics that need you know, a podcast host just needs to provide to begin with. And those are my favorite features, right those are the things that must happen in that that must work before we even get into the Oh that's a nice to have. That's a really cool extra thing. You've really got to get that baseline stuff solid at first. Yeah, all that is there, uploading of the audio titles, descriptions, artwork, it's all there. The thing that I've been working on the most recently is the feed importer. So you know, it's really easy to start anew but it's really difficult to migrate a large show over. So that that's kind of right before I hopped on this space, that's that's what I was working on. That. All that is there. As far as you know the basics, the feed importers is I believe to be the last basic. But as far as surprising and delighting, one of the things that I've been thinking about is having the ability to look at previous download history once you've been on Patricks for a while and recognizing the trends. And I don't know exactly mechanically how I would go about doing. It's just one of those ideas that you kind of play around with and see. But if you see a sudden spike in downloads for a particular show, surface that in the UI for the for the podcast of the podcast creator to look at and see, Hey, what was it about this show that was different from other ones? So I can start creating similar content to this or something dipped for some reason? What was it about this show that didn't work? Yeah, that's those are cool. I think a lot of people obsess over analytics when they're podcasters, and you can really do a lot there. You know, you're given the basics, here's what episodes got downloaded at how many times? In this sort of thing, but you could also pull in, you know, comments that people have left on Apple podcasts. You can pull in comments from some other podcast players have comments as well. You can look at statistically which episodes have performed, like you might want to look at what some of the analytics are shown on YouTube, because YouTube really provides quite a bit for creators, such as, when you publish an episode, is this out performing the other ones at the same time, you know, we're forty eight hours into publishing an episode, how is that performing compared to others, and yeah, you know stuff like analytics. I think analytics has a lot of speace to grow. Still agree on that's let's see what James thinks, because James sees a lot of these podcast hosting platforms come and go throughout the years. So James, what do you think is what is absolutely critical? I mean, I think we're at a stage now where just launching another podcast platform is our podcast hosting company is I mean, it's fine, but there are a lots of podcast hosting companies out there, and so the real thing that I would recommend you to mark is to have a unique thing that your podcast hosting platform does that nobody else does. So copying everything else absolutely fine, But what does it do that you can't get from lips In, from buzz Sprout, from Captivate, from you know, all of these other podcast us hosting companies. And you know, I've been an advisor for Captivate until they were purchased at the end of last year by Global, So I'm a little bit limited in the kind of thing that I can say, But what I would say is, you know, there's a there's a bunch of neat analytics out there. There's a bunch of you know, of information out there. But what is different about your podcast hosting platform that I can't get if I go to lives in I can't get if I go to you know, to Blueberry or whatever it might be. And I think it's focusing on that is you know, it would be really helpful. Yeah, I love that I can. I can answer that question a little bit. But of course that's you know something, I know you're asking that more. Think about this as I'm building it. But one thing I do want to say is that I haven't seen this with too many other hosts, and I could just be messing it or don't advertising it or whatever. But Patricks allows for show level access control. So a lot of what I've seen with like libs in and Anchor and the like is you either have access to the system and everything that's inside of it, or you don't. With Patricks, you can have system level access and then also separately from the system, have show level access. So you may be an editor in the entire system that's your default permission, but you only have access rights to the shows that you've explicitly been added to. Yeah, so that's a feature which is in Omnistudio. It's a feature which is in Captivated. It's a feature which is in quite a look quite a lot of people. But I agree that that is a useful tool to enable you to, you know, to appeal to the serious podcaster that might be you know out there doing you know, getting editors things involved in that sort of thing. So I think, you know, certainly worthwhile having a look at that. The other thing, I mean, I think there's a real opportunity for supporting the new podcast two point zero tags, everything from in enabling people to post transcripts to within the RSS feed, to doing value for value you know, crypto stuff, to doing location based you know, information, and really keeping on top of the podcasting two point zero thing. There are some podcasting two point zero podcast hosts out there, but not very many who are supporting many of the new tags, and that might be you know, the unique selling point that you have is that you're supporting more of those than other podcast hosting companies. Yeah, I've become aware of podcasts to point out, and I definitely have some tags that are sad that I want to start supporting. I think there's a couple I think that I either am supporting in production where it's in staging right now, I agregate what they are off the top of my head, but yeah, that's definitely something that is up net to really start diving into. Yeah, so I would dive into that, and I would also use there's a there's a bunch of open tools out there around around for your analytics in terms of user agent lists, in terms of you know that that kind of stuff to actually give really good analytics. And I think if you I don't know what a typical podcast, what a typical podcast it sees on your on your platform, but if they're seeing more than ten percent of their podcast downloads being marked as from an unknown player, then you've got a problem there. So, you know, working on working on really good analytics in terms of where things are getting played is something that I don't see too many podcast hosts doing it. So quite a lot of it, this, I guess, is around not around new features, but it's around differentiation. What what what? What what can Patricks do that other you know, what are the tricks that Patricks does? And yeah, you know and you know that that other that other people aren't doing, because otherwise you end up being just another podcast host and that's not particularly helpful exactly. No, I agree with that. I guess there's a lot more every every time I have a conversation when somebody I'm like, hey, I've got to figure it out. That was just kidding. I think for me, it's always the lot of the things that I'm on Captivate. Obviously, they have a lot of things and make our lives easier as content creators, So that's a big thing for me. What about you, Fus, I'm also in Captivate, and I would just say that having I started hand coding and RSS feedback in two thousand and five and to where we are today, I feel like we're kind of in the Every new feature is a little gift that we get as podcasters, and I'm I'm here for it. I'm enjoying watching Captivate and some of the others introduce new features and keeping up with that. And Mark, I just think that, you know, just keep grinding and h like we said earlier, and work on the basics and then find that that one piece that's going to stick out for you and hopefully that will be what helps you pop. Thank you, guys. That's a lot of insight. I greatly appreciate that. Hey, no problem at all. It looks like we have the blue collar Enlightenment show. Spoke with you several times. You have a question or challenges that you're facing this week that you'd like to discuss marketing, That's kind of my biggest issue is how trying to get more people to come and stay on the show. So what are you what are you currently doing? I do all over my platforms, Facebook, Twitter, word of mouth is a big one, talking to other people and having the other people that I have on my show because it's interview based, promote their episodes and the show in general. But I'm trying to keep keep going and keep the numbers going up and step down before I pass it off to I know Jack and Jen came off of the mute for a second, but so real quick, what exactly you know? If you can quickly explain what your show is about and who do you think it appeals to? Who are you trying to reach out to with your show? So my show is about me called guy, and I am searching out in the world of the people that are doing interesting things and I want to talk to them, bring them on the show asking because some people follow those people and then they'll come to my show and maybe you'll think that I'm interesting, or they can come to the show my interviews about their journey, maybe they can relate. Maybe they're trying to have a book come out, or start a YouTube channel, or you know, so on and so forth, that kind of thing. Jack, you want to start it off? Sure, yeah, I think I think some stuff that's helped for me is to kind of inject yourself into these circles. Right, So you are talking with creators. It sounds like where the creator communities online, where people creating things, how can you be more present in those spaces and you know, offer some advice, give some you know, good stories that you've that you've found and shared and this kind of thing, and that that gets people more interested, like, Hey, I want to get in to this YouTube creation process. It looks like this guy's talking about it a lot. I'm going to follow him, right, And so you got a new follower, whether it's on Twitter or whatever, And then they look at your bio and they say, oh, this guy's got a podcast. Right. So I think just being part of the creator community goes a long way. But I like the way you framed it. At the beginning, the question was how do I get listeners to kind of stick around longer and enjoy it? And I think you have to be you have to find what the value add that you want your listeners to take away from and then just deliver that as much as possible. Right, So, if you want them to be more educated or feel like this show is funny, right, and they feel you know, funnier, like they get laughter out of it, or they feel more inspired or whatever it is, you want to grab that emotion, that feeling that you want them to take away from it, and just hunt for that in every single interview you do and every single episode. And if it's not hitting in those episodes, like oh, this one just kind of fell flat, you gotta cut it, you gotta you gotta say that one just did it fit in what I want this show to be, And that's okay, it's all right to cut some episodes out. And if you can kind of be that tastemaker of pulling in the greatest conversations and the real interesting stuff and delivering that to the audience where they're like, this is always I know, this is always going to be something really interesting to me, and it's going to give me this kind of feeling. I'm going to tune in every time. I'm the kind of person that wants to wants my listeners to catch up on every single episode and they're never behind on one versus maybe somebody else who publishes five times a week. They just want more content out there, So you kind of have to figure out do I want more content or do I want the content to just really be the best content? And people take away from that. So I don't always have the right school of thought for everyone, so some people have different ways of doing it. But these are some things that I think my help, Yeah, and I understand that, you know, maybe a podcast or it's going to take time, and I'll pushing them. Actually had my biggest interview yet, And the more interviews I do, the bigger people that all have come on, and the more interesting the conversations that I'll have. Jeff, are you okay? Was made promoting my twenty space. Yeah. Sure, So every Thursday at seven thirty Central time, I do a podcast base kind of like this, but it's more laid back. We don't have a said it to him or what we're talking about we just bullshit podcast. Excuse willing, Jen, did you want to say, did you have something to add to this? I know you came off with you a few times. Yes, Actually, I was just gonna ask him about what kind of efforts is he doing when it comes to advertising his podcast, because when it comes to it, first of all, you need to do their research to find exactly what kind of people you're trying to attract. Once you know, once you know the type of honors you're looking for, then you will have to see what kind of value just like Jack was telling him, like what kind of value can you add to that audience that is listening to But at the same time, you want to ask your audience like what do you think about this? And like any kind of feedback that you can actually use in your own advantage and then take it into a like an advertising strategy to attract more people just like them and produce more content the same way. And I feel that's the best way to actually do it, and not just in one place, but in different platforms if you can. I usually do not recommend to go everywhere, but like to try to stick to provide the value that you're looking for in places that you know you're going to find that audience and maintain it in their focusing. That one you say, people's feedback, How how do you do that? Because you know at the end of the show, I do say, hey, shop me message that what you think in the podcast? It needs a lot to us but nothing so is just something I'm saying wrong? What should you do to get to that feed Well? I do different things, like for example, like I do have a YouTube channel, but I'm more focused on my Instagram account and every Friday I go live like coffee with Jen Right and people jumping in there. Sometimes they watch it after. But what I like to do is like, for example, I do stories, and I create like this, polls and kind of questions so people can get to ask. And I ask in different ways even my own clients, like so what do you like about this? Or when I get like any type of commons, so what do you like the most? Like what is something that is attracting you? Is there something else that you want to learn about it? Or it? Should I be speaking about another topic or something that is more valuable to you. I ask those questions all the time. You might not get an answer all the time, but it gets you closer to the honest that is listening to because they know that you want to create that value. I understand that. I get what you said. Do you have do you have your own website or are you just directing people to your actual podcast episodes on one of the podcatchers I am looking to I'm doing stuff in steps. I don't have a process that convested me up, so I'm working on one thing at a time. Is so my website is the next thing. Right now, I go direct you go directly to my anchor side, and from there you could go to whatever. Once you have your website up and running, I recommend installing what's called the LinkedIn tag, which will allow you to see the job titles, industries, and some of the different demographic information of the visitors that are coming to your website, and that will help you back to what Jen was saying, find the right kind of audience. So you're, you know, talking to blue collar workers to find you know, perhaps what kind of industry those blue collar workers are in and who's coming there, and it all depends on if the people who go there actually have a LinkedIn tag. So maybe you know that it depends on a bit on that, but we do use that every day for the healthcare industry or for manufacturing and things like that with our businesses that we work with, and we're able to see, you know, maybe this uh more on the respiratory therapist side, or more on the you know, nurse practitioners or whatever that might be that we're advertising too. So once you have an actual I always recommend having your own page that you can control and look at the analytics for and those kind of things that you don't get from anchor or from directing, you know, right to Apple or to Spotify, and being able to measure that and then see what's working, who it's working for, and then to advertise to more people like that. You're ill. Do you have any advice on how to get like, how to get feedback from your listeners? What are some creative things that you've done or heard of that he just said asking on his podcast at the end it's not working. Do you have any thoughts on that? I have many thoughts. Thank you for asking, Yeah, it could. How many listeners do you have is a big question, because if you have two hundred listeners per episode, there's a good chance that sorry, I'm in a loud room. There's a good chance that that's just not enough people to be engaged to actually give you feedback. So that could be something just to think about, is you might not be getting feedback because your sample size is not big enough. And yes, there are some audiences that have two hundred people, and those two hundred people are all very engaged, but you just never know when you're catching those people. You know, you could be they could be listening to your show when they're in the sixth hour of their car ride and they just have no chance of responding to you right then and there, and because of that, they're going to forget about it because they also listened to five other podcasts. So that's just something to think about. Maybe it'll make you feel a little less like, oh, why is nobody responding to me? Sometimes it's just because you are one of the approximately eight podcasts that they're listening to per week, and they listen to you as part of their routine, and you're so trenched in their routine that they don't even think of you as something you know that they need to do. Besides when they're listening to you, But then another thing to do, just maybe try this out, is when you are asking for ratings and reviews on your show, give people something specific to respond to, so everybody says, hey, before you go, leave us a rating and review. It really helps us. It doesn't really help you except for in social proof that's you know, this was debunked a while ago from Apple that it moves you up in the algorithm or anything like that. So maybe just appealing to people where they are and really telling the truth and saying, hey, it doesn't really help us move up in the algorithm, but it really does help me understand what you like about the show. And maybe just being honest with them will help and say like, I really do need to hear from you because I don't know why I'm making this show. Otherwise, you know, you can always try that tactic and just be very very frank with them, and then just on a lighter note, you could also say something like, we would love it if you'd leave a rating and review. If you don't know what to say, tell me what you had for dinner today or something better yet more related to your show. I'm writing every one of these things done just I have I appreciate it. I am recording it too, so you don't have to write it down. You can listen to it right after if you want to go ahead, Jack, Just to give some context on what Ariel was saying. With the sample size, I get about one percent of my listeners to do what I say. So if I say, message me, tell me what you think, Cleveland review by this product, whatever, it's one percent of my audience. Yeah, I have a repetition. What is gonna get you there? Yeah? I mean I think when it comes to repetition, So say so, Jack, that one percent, you're going to have some people tuning in, some people responding to your call to action some weeks, some people responding other times, and then a good percentage is never going to respond. Do you have any date on that? I agree with you, so whatever, And you're right because they're busy. I'm I'm listening to podcasts when I'm running. I'm never gonna respond on a run. I'm busy doing something else. So yeah, I don't know if yeah, they're you're right. So I think the ones who do respond, I think kind of reflect a larger percentage as well. So if you have one person that says, hey, this was really helpful to me. It probably means that there were ten other people who feel that same way too, So I kind of feel this as like, oh, I'm you're representing some of the other you know, silent majority as well. Yeah, I can actually speak to that when it comes to newsletters, so I run a podcast recommendation newsletter called Earbuds Podcast Collective, which you can get if you go to earbuds dot audio. We are officially partnering with James at pod News, which you can get at podnews dot net. And the way the newsletter works is that we send out an email every Sunday night that has five podcast episodes on a theme, and we don't get them any clicks, which is shocking to me because we have a pretty big subscriber base and those people are very plugged into the podcast base. We get a lot of people writing to us on social and saying they loved our podcast recommendations or dming us or replying to the email, but our click rate is not huge. Our click rate is in like the two percent range, which is not which is okay industry wise, but I would like it to be bigger. Whatever, all the things for advertisers, whatever. But what I found, and I tweeted this recently, is that I don't know about you, but when I am subscribed to a bunch of different podcast newsletters, I am not clicking on those newsletters. Even myself. I am viewing what's being recommended and I'm thinking, oh, okay, that's being recommended. Great, And then I go to the next newsletter and I'm seeing that it's being recommended there. And then sometime down the line, maybe it's subconsciously, I'm going and I'm putting the name of that show into my podcast listening app of choice, and then I'm going to listen to it that way. So people don't always take action right away. And so that's another thing to keep in mind. James, there's plas. What are your thoughts, Yeah, well, there we are. I mean, I mean, I think from my from my point of view, to get people to to do anything, you need to keep it really really simple, not add four hundred million different things at the end of your podcast. If you really want something, then ask and ask for it upfront. And you know that typically works rather rather better than throwing in you know, give us five stars. That would be really helpful. Please tell your friends, you know, please, you know, give us feedback. Maybe you'll give us a feedback on pod Chaser, or maybe you're on the Apple podcasts, or you know, send us a postcard, here's our address, and you know all that kind of stuff. That's not that's not going to be the easiest thing to end up doing. So if you want something from your audience, ask them for one thing, and make it really clear why you're asking what you'd like to know? All right? Is it? Is that good answer for your blue collar enlignment show, Yes, sir, I will take it any more of the time. No, And I think you know, the longer you do it and you get into it, then you start realizing these kind of things. But yeah, really keeping it simple is it's critical because it just you don't want to make it any harder. Give yourself more, give your listeners, excuse me, more work for us. What do you think? No? I agree, I think that you want to make it simple, and there's I mean, really just again, find out who your audience is and provide the best product to them and mark it to the right people. And that's what you've got to do. Anybody else has a question don't hesitate to go ahead and request the microphone will go on to on curve. Go ahead, Hi everyone. So I actually am involved in this podcast called Software Engineering Daily, so I managed like the operations there. Before that, I've been a listener of doc Knit Diaries and the Expreadman podcast and of also like Software Engineering Daily. So I just want to like share one of my experiences with the Lex Spreadman podcast. I was one of the first listeners of those podcasts. So let's created a Discord server which had like a hundred people in the beginning, and it grew really from there. And like his episodes were like really technical, deep learning and all kinds of stuff, but the audience of that podcast was just not like the technical people. It was like people who were like played great guitars or painters or artists, so people from all sports of life were involved in that to grow that podcast. And I think like Lex had this habit of you know, engaging with their audience, with his audience in such a great way that he used to actually, you know, discuss research papers. So he used to discuss the Turing paper and kind of stuff with people on the Discord voice chat. So like that experience has been so and now he's like millions of listeners, so he probably does not even remember us. But like I was one of the first listeners of that podcast. I had a different question. So we are like right now we have like thirty k listeners per episode on Software Engineering Jerry and I am we are trying to create new forms of podcasts, so like web three and all kinds of the different domains that are coming right now, and I just want to understand, like what's the best way to diversify from here without like starting from scratch all over again. So diversify as in create new podcasts or create go into new areas in the current podcast create new podcasts. Well, I mean, you're a creator. You've maken a podcast and it's probably not the last thing you create, so you know you've got you kind of have to look at this as a journey where each thing you create you can try to take that audience to the next thing you're working on. And you know, if you create another podcast, you should self promote it in the Software Engineering Daily podcast, which you already you know have a piece in. So yeah, I mean using your current podcast to cross promote to the other one is one of the best marketing tricks I've ever seen, so I definitely use that. Okay, that's quite thank you. I'm gonna jump in there. For the Software Engineering Daily podcast, I've listened to it for probably two or three years, and I was actually working with Jeff on it right as covid hit. I was doing help doing the marketing and promotions for it. I would my biggest piece of advice because of the polarizing nature of Web three is. I don't want to say avoid it like the plague, because it could be the future. But at the same time, the Software Engineering Daily podcast is very much focused on like established best practices. So if I would lean into that cross promotion and say, hey, if you're interested in this, we have this other podcast that we do and almost like as as a pre role and a post role, I would put it in there. But I wouldn't like put it in people's faces, because I think that would deter people away from Software Engineering Daily because they're interested in today's best practices and not necessarily tomorrow's best practices. If that makes any sense. Yeah, totally thinker is the Is the Lex Friedmant discord still around or did it get shut down. Ah, So I left it because Lex was not active anymore. But I know a few people and they say, like, there's not much activity in that discord now, so, but when it started, it had a lot of activity. And he used to like he used to like read research papers like every Saturday sometimes even he used to read like poetries and that James or anybody else have anything to add, I honestly do not. I don't want to act like I'm just gonna throw shit on the one seat of the sticks. So anybody else feel free if you have anything to add. All right, Yeah, we appreciate you taking the time to come up and ask that. Podcasting Power Hour is part of Indie drop in network. If you are a podcaster looking to grow your listeners, check out indie drop in dot com. Indie drop in is always free and we have opportunities right now for comedy, true crime, scary and paranormal podcasts. Just go to indie drop in dot com to learn more. Digital Dissection Mark. I know it's you on there. I know you have a great question. I'm sure you always do. Hey, Jeff, thanks thanks for inviting me. I apologized I was a little late, but the question I came in with actually does kind of piggyback off of what was just covered because we started doing a mini series that that kind of accompanies what we do on our main show. Because the main show that we do covers you know, pop culture, and we go through you know what, I basically just whittle it down. Millennials that remember the eighties will typically be the crowd we're going for. And when we launched this mini series, it was not necessarily to break away from pop culture, but to tap into some of these other areas within podcasts that we've always kind of wanted to look at, which was, you know, things like true crime, some of the more mysterious aspects of pop culture. Stuff that's kind of on the fringe of what we would normally do. And the problem that we've kind of run into now is that we are seeing some of the folks that listen to our main show tap into the any series, but we're seeing the mini series be more successful. And it's a really weird place to be right now and just kind of pull everyone that's here. I mean, where would you be at in terms of you just follow the flow of what people are kind of looking at and maybe pull back on the other show. I mean, I'm kind of at a crossroads and interested in everyone's thoughts on it. Success is always a difficult thing to navigate, isn't it. Yeah, it's weird, James, Are you still awake over there in Australia? Yeah, I'm still the way. Yeah. I think success is really difficult because success for different people means different things. And if you are wanting to become a millionaire, then that's very different from if you are wanting to spread your own influence to other people, or you're wanting to use your podcasts as an opportunity to travel the world or whatever it might end up being. So really success is what you make of it. And yeah, so it's a difficult one to kind of, you know, to kind of think about in that sort of side what I do see, you know, in terms of you know, in terms of successful shows, there's shows which have been around four years and years and years and they're consistent and you know what they stand for. And you know, Jack's podcast is a great example of that. It's a podcast which has been been around for many years now. Everybody understands what you're likely to get in terms of a in terms of the next episode, and you know, and I think from that from that point of view, it's a great example. There are plenty of shows which appear and then they exist for twelve episodes and then they disappear, which doesn't seem to me to be the world's greatest plan, to be honest. So, yeah, so it's always always interesting saying that, Yeah, I'm just trying to figure out what the problem is here. So you've got you started a second podcast that's going really well, what's the what's the issue that you need help tackling? So actually, James kind of answered the question for me, at least thinking about maybe not being so quick to kind of run away from what we've been doing with our other show since we won't we I mean, we've only been doing podcasting for a little bit over a year now, So for me, it's not like we're thinking about it being a job replacement by any means. For me, it was more about maybe more of a knee jerk reaction. And to James point on this, I think it is important for me to consider maybe looking at not one doing better early on than the other one, and maybe just seeing what this looks like. I don't know, maybe month over month or the twice a year check into it, or even year over year and maybe look more internally than than anything. But but I actually think he answered my question. That's I appreciate that. Yeah. Well, I mean what I've seen is like when when a new show spins out of something, you see it hitting. You know, sometimes on the podcast Apple podcast charts ahead of its its parents show. And the thing is is that you've got this new influx of listeners. You're taking your existing listeners and you're dumping them into this new show, and they're like, yeah, I always like this show, I might as well check out their new one. You know, I want more of whatever they're making, So I'm jumping in. And so you see this new show growing so much faster than your your current show. But it is sometimes just at the beginning, because you're just introducing a whole your whole audience. You're kind of dumping them into that, and once you've kind of equalized them the two, then you can then you can start to see which one is actually going to be the bigger one over time. So yeah, I think at the beginning you will see something like that. All right, we'll go ahead and move on Western sounds. I know that I've talked with you in pretty good detail quite a bit. You just really get into it. You really just started the podcast, so I'm sure you have a great question to ask us. Yes, so I'm looking to upgrade my recording equipment. Right now, I record off of kind of really kind of crappy microphone and right into my laptop. I record into Audacity thanks to you, Jeff. But I am looking to upgrade, and I'm looking to do it cost efficiently. So I'm looking for some advice as to how to best use my money. So just to kind of explain here, he he started through Anchor. He's actually been recording onto Anchor and he's and he's enjoying it, but he's looking to kind of upgrade to that next thing. As far as the equipment goes, as far as the hosting platform and everything, I know, for me, the Samsung Queue to you would be really, in my opinion, would be a really good affordable option for a microphone. I can send you details on that, but I will you know. As far as being affordable and being a dynamic mic. I kind of use that one on the go and I think it does a great job. But I'll let somebody else chime in on this. As far as editing goes, are you married to Audacity or are you looking to want to update that as well. I'm not married to it. It's free and so that part's nice, but if there was something that was better and worth the cost, then I would be way down to shop around. I think that's a good first step. You've been editing in Anchor, so I mean, I think if you can go through the steps on Audacity, that's that's pretty big in comparison to what you been doing. Yes, yes, I agree, Audacity is good. It's where I started. I eventually made the switch over to Adobe Audition, and it's a little bit more enterprising, but with their CC licensing, I think you can get it just the just Audition relatively cheap. I don't have numbers in front of me right now, but I would highly recommend Audition just because if it's plug in architecture and like integration into things, it allows for you know, a lot of land and expand type of editing you can, like you can introduce different types of audio processors into the editing experience, so you don't have to do it while you're recording. I would highly recommend that, just because that's just personal preference. Otter the audition. I am. I'm drinking the cool right there, but I that's my recommendation. I would just ask, is there something right now that you feel is falling flat with your show? Because I wouldn't just go spending money if you unless you know there's something that you feel isn't working. And if there's like that one specific thing that you need advice on how to spend your money. There's a I don't know here right now that can give you some advice I want to spend your money on. But I would say, you know, don't spend it if you don't need to. If if that's working for you, keep going that route until you hit a hit a wall and needed adjust. I spend a lot of money on podcast stuff, but only because I that's my hobby and that's where I spend my extra spending money. But I you know, if you're doing it to make money, I would say, keep it as lean as possible until you're in the black. And other than that, I you know, we can we can all hear spend your money a thousand different ways for you and we'll all have different opinions on that. Yeah, I'm I think my mic could use an upgrade. I'm only really doing this with my spare money at the time anyway, so it's more of a hobby for me right now. If I would start making money on it, then I would keep it a little bit leaner, But right now I'm just kind of doing it for fun and want it to be better, if that makes sense. Do you have any podcasts or friends who pod faded it and their MIC's just sitting in a drawer somewhere that you could say, Hey, can I just borrow that to see how it sounds? I don't right now. I might ask around, but I've as of right now, I don't. Jeff, what was that Mike that you and I were talking about the other day? Yeah, yeah, no, I used to sharing me seven, but I mean we're talking about I also use the Samsung Q to you, it's like sixty dollars. I think it's a dynamic MIC. It's it's good that one's USB and XLR, right, I hear him? Yeah, yes, just as a good transitional mike. I mean that's if you're if you're running USB now and not XLR and you decide in the futured upgrade your your recording device, then you can go to an XLR if you're currently used in USB, and that's kind of the next step up. Awesome, Thank you guys, I really appreciate it. Anybody else have any other thoughts on that before we move on to Chris. I mean, the only other thing that I would add is USB mics aren't to the middle ground. They can be the microphone that you end up using depending on what your show is. You know is about the MV seven is a perfectly capable microphone without ever plugging in an XLR thing into it. And I also think just worth well bearing in mind that there are audio editors for music, of which Adobe Audition is most certainly one of those, or Reaper or any of these other very overspecified audio editors. There's a really good audio editor which is specifically for speech, therefore specifically for podcasting. It's called Hindenburg. It will costume nine U S dollars a month, and it's specifically built for putting together shows quickly easily for speech. You'll even upload it to your podcast host for you, and is a much much better choice than going for a hugely complicated piece of equipment like Adobe Audition or any of these these other services, in my humble opinion, and so you know, just worthwhile knowing that there are other other tools out there that make it easy, simple and quick for you to edit, which, frankly, much of the reason why people pod fade is that they just get tired of editing, you know, they get tired of the drudgery around their creativity. And I'm a big fan of getting rid of all of that and to focus on keeping time for being creative rather than you know, fiddling around with you know, excelent microphones and complicated audio editors when you can just do a great job with something which is made for the job. Yeah, I like Hindenberg as well as an audio editor. And the reason why I don't want to use Audacity is because there's this there's this thing called what is it called self destructive non destructive editing. So when you cut off the end of a clip on Audacity, you can't get that back unless you reimport that idea. And to me, that was just really anxiety and do sing because I'm like, do I really want to remove this forever? Forever? For ever, and you know, it's like, oh no, I actually when I wish I kept that one extra second on there. This is really driving me nuts exactly. So with the Hindenburg you can cut it off but then regrow it if you want, make it bigger again. And pretty much anything other than Audacity does this, so it's not just Hindenburg. But I agree with James that Hindenberg kind of boils it down to just this is the stuff you need for speech. We don't have all these really fancy plugins and extra things that you don't really need unless you're making music or something else, and so it does kind of simplify it and it gives you everything you need. So Hindenberg is a really cool thing. You can try it for free for like ninety days. And the other thing just to bear in mind is that Audacity is owned by a company in Russia and is sending back information about you. Not very much information, but it is sending some information back about you to the Russian owner of that of that company. If you're cool with that, then that's fine, but it's just worth while you being aware of that. Important to note that. James, Okay, well I'll go ahead and move on to Chris. Chris has a podcast. He's grew growing pretty quickly and doing a great job. Chris, I'm sure you have something awesome today. Ask thanks for joining us. Man, Hey, Jeff, thanks for inviting me up here to ask a question I have. Since there's so many great minds in here, I'm going to ask one question and two parts that wait, it's still one question number one. We're we are exactly ninety days old today. So we dropped our first episode exactly ninety days ago and since then, all I've worked on We've never done this before or anything, so I had to learn with YouTube how to like edit and everything. So we've just worked on audio for the last ninety days. How important and it's been in Audacity and I did not know that about Russia, and that's what I've used because that's what was the most accessible on YouTube at the time. I could just there are so many videos. But how important is it going to be for us to start to edit video and put out video versus just audio? Like, is this something I need to transition to a new software? Just get used to it because everybody's going to video. That's my That's the first part of the question. And my second part is when it comes to monetization, we're building a little podcast network right now. We just put our second podcast out. Is downloads or time? What is more important for monetization the downloads or do we just need to put time in first learning? Thank you? So the first question about video, I think I think the most popular podcasts out there, like if you look at the top two hundred on Apple podcasts, majority of them don't have videos. So you can go your whole podcasting career without worrying about video. And that's the reason why I podcast is so I don't have to think about props and makeup and backgrounds and all this kind of stuff. I could just focus on audio only. But I think I saw something in pod News recently which said that the podcasters who do create videos, such as Lex Friedman, Joe Rogan, these kind of shows with some others Huberman Lab this kind of stuff, they're getting more listeners on the video version versus the audio, which is really some striking numbers to me and James, please correct me if you saw something differently than that. But I think video is completely optional. But if you want to have your face on their YouTube, is actual doing some some pushes to get more podcasts going. I can imagine in the next few months we're going to see a whole podcasting section on YouTube to kind of give podcasters some sunlight there. So it's kind of excited to get a show on YouTube, even with minimal visuals. Just maybe an looping animation or something could could help ride that wave whatever YouTube's plan on doing. I think it's also important to ask yourself where do you want to engage with your listeners? Do you want to manage multiple incoming channels if you are getting responses from your listeners, do you want to reply to emails or apply to like pot inboxes? If you add YouTube in the video format, one of the key things that YouTube looks at is, you know, comments and comment engagement. So if you're going to be encouraging video, naturally there's going to be the YouTube comments, which of course you can turn off you want to, but I wouldn't recommend that. But do you have the time to reply to the comments to foster that engagement? It's all about the time and where do you want to take this? And I think before you even get there, do you have time to make videos? And do you have time to make videos well, because shitty content is not going to have a place anywhere in the future. There's just too many other shows to choose from. Your show has to be amazing, both audio and video. And so I mean I've seen people think, oh, I need to get on YouTube because everybody says I need to get on YouTube. That's definitely not a reason to get on YouTube, especially if you don't have the equipment. If your video quality is shaky or it looks like there's a film over the camera. It's got to be a nice camera, unfortunately, and that could be expensive, and that can be really time consuming and then expensive to pay people to make it not time consuming for you. So a lot of things to consider, And I think the number one thing here is you don't need to get into YouTube now just because people are saying to get into YouTube. And if you get into YouTube in three years and you make a great product, then no one's gonna be like, oh, they didn't get in three years ago. Therefore I won't listen to their ship or watch their ship. People are going to watch it if it's great. Yeah, well said there was a second question there as well, which is a monetization and I just want to kind of step back from that question and an underline what I think. There are the three biggest challenges that podcasters face today, and the first one is making great content, and that might take six months to a year to figure out what that is. What's the stuff that's just really you know, landing with listeners and making it so that if you were to shut the show down, they'd be so upset with you, Like something great? Is making something great something worth listening to because people turn off good shows to listen to great shows, so you really want to try to make a great show. That's kind of the first big challenge to get over. The second big challenge is building an audience, which is like, Okay, now we've got something great, let's market it, let's build it, let's grow it, let's you know, advertise for it, whatever the case is. And that takes a long time as well. Shows don't grow successfully overnight. They take a long time. It's a long cycle. And then the third big challenge is that monetization, which is what you're asking about, figuring out who or is the sponsor, trying to find them, how do I put ads in there? And if it's not monetization, it's just keeping going because sometimes we run out of steam or it's not given us back what we thought we this podcast thing was going to give us. So it's just kind of not given up. So what's going to keep you there to keep going so you don't have to give up? And so yeah, I mean that brings us to the question, which is what a sponsor is looking for, and it's number of downloads per episode is kind of the industry standard. People charge somewhere around twenty to thirty dollars per one thousand downloads, So I wouldn't really start even looking at this until maybe you hit five thousand downloads per episode, and then you can maybe play around with affiliate ads or something like that just to kind of tickle it and see how it feels. But once you get in like the twenty thousand downloads per episode range, things actually like ad deals start to make more sense and sponsors make more sense. Thank that was a big help, Thank you guys. I'll just add one more thing to that, which is that podcorn is a great resource if you want to try out sponsorships or try out your luck in pitching for sponsorships. That's podco r N dot FM. It's a marketplace where advertisers can say I want to advertise to these types of people, and you can say I have these types of people, and then you can apply. You can do a vocal a vocal ad, you know, you can record a voice clip, or you can write your pitch, and of course there are best practices for both of those things, and there's many reasons why you would be accepted or not by these advertisers. So that's a fun way to play around with a potential ad goal. But then another thing to think about is do you have Are you getting enough engagement from your listeners, whether that's on social, whether that's ratings and reviews. Are you hearing from your listeners enough to know that they are going to take action when you tell them to buy a product because or else you are not going to be a great ad partner for an advertiser or a brand, and you want to prove your worth so that they come back around again. So if right now is not the time, spend your time building up your quality of your content, your engagement, your listenership and all that before you go after asking for somebody to pay to be in your show, fuzz Jen James, anything to add to this, I don't particularly know, as I said everything that I was going to no. I think Chris also just knowing a little bit more because they engage with him daily. He's definitely at that point now where he as far as the number of listeners he's in the engagement it gets, He's ready, but it's about taking that next step for Chris. Chris, thanks for asking a question, man. I appreciate you inviting me. Jeff, you a problem to you, like I know you have a question to ask. Hey, guys, thank Jeff. Thanks for bringing me up. So I've been I'm going through a lot of things with a podcasting industry, kind of doing a lot more research. And one thing that I've got to myself into is I help a lot of podcasters outside the United States, and I've bring more people into podcasts and from Africa, from the Caribbeans, and now we're going into Latin America. And the only problem that most of them a beam that they keep asking me is how do they get to cross promote with counterparts in the United States to be able to get that United States audience Because they want to be able to get that United States at dollars and it's been one hecover journey trying to do it a few clos in trying to see if we can do that. But then there's sometimes a language barriers, sometimes the accent barriers or the story barriers there where the series might not you know, how do how do we figure out the way to solve for this to bring more of a very very diverse community that can cross promotes easily across some continents if possible, because they are already in the same general someone who's talking about relationships in Africa to be able to give that advice to someone in Europe, right, But how do we what are are their platforms that have been created for this or is there something that I'm missing and having to help these people kind of cross promote into Europe or into United States and that And that's what I really have in trying to solve this past two weeks that since the last time we spoke, Jeff, that's it. Well, I've done quite a few cross promotions, so I can share some experiences here. The things that I want to do when I'm cross promoting with some other show is to find a show in my in my category, my genre, like you said, talks about the same things I talk about, and to find a show that's got similar size to me. And to do that, I look at my category, whatever that is in Apple Podcasts or whatever, and I try to get a good understanding of what are some of the shows that are going on there, and not just my primary category, but maybe my secondary or third choice category. Right, so you know I'm technology primary, but i'm true crime as well. So I can look in these two different categories to try to figure out what's going on who else is there? And then I want to try to figure out similar size, and to do that I go to castbox dot fm. This is a podcast app that actually shows how many subs scribers every podcast has. So I can look at how many subscribers does my show have on there? And that's just cast Box subscribers, and so that gives me a kind of an idea of how big I am on the app. And then I started to look at these other shows that I've already identified to say, what are some that are in my range? And that gives me an idea of this is about the same size show as mine, and we're both probably trying to grow and so then I'll reach out. Maybe I'll get five, five or ten shows, And it's probably better to find shows that don't have a network and they're kind of independent because kind of network shows have this own, their own little club that they're in. So you find an independent show, you reach out to ten of them and maybe three say yeah, I would like to do a cross promotion. So the way I pitch it is saying, Hey, I'd like to put a sixty second ad for your show in my show, and I'm wondering if you would like to do the same, put a sixty second ad for my show and your show, and you know, here's here's the stuff I want you to say to promote my I show or whatever and see if they say yes. And like I said, when I reached out to ten, three said yes. So it sometimes is a number game. You sometimes have to reach out to quite a bit before you get him. But those shows could really make an impact with your downloads. And that's kind of my experience. Do you do this for international podcasts? Are like just the ones locally that you've you've done this with? Well, I found, you know, English speaking ones. I guess you know, if your shows are English speaking, then they can be, you know, in the English speaking crowd, but if they are in that language whatever language you speak locally, then you might want to seek those ones out specifically. And I think you brought up a good point about the language barrier and accent barrier, and I think one way you can overcome that is not necessarily doing cross promos straight away, but appearing on a few shows as a guest so that they actually hear your voice, hear the host's voice, and then later maybe down the line, after they've heard your voice they're acclimated to it, then you can pepper the shows that you're potentially interested in collaborating with with cross promos, but you kind of introduce them a little bit with something that helps them understand the tone of your voice. And all of that got okay, thank you. I also just want to add that it is possible to do cross promos with shows that are smaller than you. You just have to think about, or bigger than you. You just have to think about either a dynamically inserted piece of content or ad or what other things do you have to leverage or do they have to leverage. So if you have five hundred downloads per episode, and you're interested in swapping with a show that has five thousand downloads per episode. In theory, you could run an ad for them X number of times to make up for their one ad, or you could run it once but then also post about them on social post about them in your newsletter, and come up, come up, come up with an agreed upon number of social swaps and other types of swaps that makes sense, so that so that it's fair or at least close to fair. That was That was a very good idea. That's what I'll try. That that works. Thanks a real thanks Yah, no problem at all, anybody else or anything to add of that. James, fuzz, Jene, George, George, do you have a question? Though you were a speaker then you had dropped off before we end this, George, do you have anything you want to ask? All right, Well, hey, we've passed the hour mark here and I really appreciate everybody joining. It's been another fun week of this and thanks to James and Jen and Ariel that have all Jack that all joined this week, and hopefully whenever you guys have free time in the future, we can do this and do whatever we can to help the community fuzzy any more. Closing thoughts, No, don't. I just want to say Jeff Thing for putting this together. These are always helpful, and thanks all the guests that joined today and all the listeners who listened in or ask questions. It's this is great. This is something I look forward to on Monday nights, so thanks, or Tuesday mid days if you're James, Tuesday midday and if anybody would like to know what the headline is for tomorrow. Megaphone, the massive, great big podcast hosting company that Spotify owns, has been down for the last two hours. Yikes, So there you go. It's all going on at Spotify, isn't it. I'm just gonna say Patricks right now is up so and so and so is my own Cobbles Together podcast hosts as well. Always good you have any other closing thoughts, James, We appreciate you taking the time to do this. Hopefully we can join forces again in the future. Yeah, indeed, I'd love too in the future country next week because I'm in Toronto in Canada rather weirdly, but yes, no, this is this has been fun, so it's always It's always good to hear these and yeah, it's been it's been good fun to be part of this, so hopefully I will be again. Check Man, appreciate you taking the time. I know you're a busy guy. You have any closing thoughts, Oh, it's just fine catching up with some of my friends on here. So good seeing you, Ariel and James and Jeff. Nice nice chatting with everyone. Hey, thanks for your input. You're always valuable resource and you have a lot of information out there also that's helpful on the web, So thank you Jack. Good for an aeriel. You have closing thoughts, Yeah, I do. Just because somebody says something doesn't mean it's the truth. When it comes to podcasting or podcast marketing, be skeptical of people who call themselves gurus. Be skeptical of me, Be skeptical of everybody up on stage. Do multiple rounds of research before you make decisions, because anybody can say anything, and because there are no real rules, anybody can make anything up. So just you know, do what's right for you in your podcast. Ask questions, but trust multiple sources. You're the best. You probably get told that a lot too, but maybe not enough. Appreciate you, Jen closing thoughts. Thank you for joining. This is your first time joining and kind of getting to know some of the people on the podcast in space, so appreciate you taking the time to do this. I'm really happy to be here and like you said, it's my first time doing this one, and I was happy to listen to everyone and everyone's thought and especially by just Arial just said, everyone can say whatever and anywhere, doesn't mean that they're actually telling the truth. But just get out there, guys. Just keep doing what you need to do, and just enjoy it while you're doing it. And thank you for having me. George. Now you jump up here. What's going on? Sorry, guys, I just I was taking care of something that I had to jump off and then I had to jump back on again. But I had just a quick question regarding regarding the some some really cool news that I got recently. I just got recently got was named as like a number number one spot and over on over on on good Pods, and I know that, you know, like I know that that it's you know, it's a new platform and everything, and it's something that not one to take fully seriously and everything, but you know, like it's a number one spot and it's something that I feel like would definitely benefit if I were to use that to gain some momentum regarding sponsorships. Do you think that that would be would be a good good way to go with that? It depends how how much the potential sponsor knows about the podcast space. If they know something about the podcast space, they'll know that being the number one on good Pods doesn't necessarily mean that you have tons and tons of listeners. If they don't, then it sounds pretty good. However, it's good for social proof to say that you're number one on something, So yeah, it's out that. Something that people do all the time. You'll see is they'll go to listen notes. They'll look up their show on listen notes and see that it's in the top five percent or top ten percent of all podcasts in the world. And truthfully, that doesn't mean much. It means that you have like five hundred maybe seven hundred downloads per episode. And also you don't necessarily know how accurate these things are, so that's just something to be aware of. Us. We don't know exactly how much goes into what makes you the number one podcast on good Pods, Like sometimes it's number one rated, which means that three people rated you that week, which is not that much, you know, So it's just something to for you to know and for some people possibly to be impressed by, but other people lesser. I know that sounds like harsh. It goes it goes back to what you just said about questioning everything too. I think you know to be if you're if you're number one on good Pods, but you're you know, number fifteen thousand, eight hundred and seventy three on Apple podcasts, what's the uh, you know, where's the discrepancy? Who's listening? Exactly to your point of what goes on? Beasts? The Apple podcasts chart has nothing to do with downloads anyway, so you know there is that sort of side of it as well. I am number three on Good Pods and have been number three on Good Pods for probably the last six months. Same and I can tell you as of Sundays downloads which I'm looking at here, I got one thousand, seven hundred downloads of the pod news podcast on Sunday, not one, not one was from good pods. I'm sure I could find some good pods if I searched hard, If I searched hard enough, but they're not a big, a big podcast app. But great, as Ariel says, for social proof, great for showing advertisers, look, we're number one in this in this app. That's absolutely fine. You're probably not going to see an awful lot of additional downloads from it, but I know that it's a you know, it's an exciting group of folks who all believe very very strongly in that particular app. But you know, all of these charts, there's there's only one chart which has a scintilla of truth to it, and that's Edison's Podcast Metrics. And Edison's Podcast Metrics are you know, they only show you the top one hundred podcasts. It's only for the US, and it's an awful lot of work to get even those. So unfortunately the other charts aren't particularly helpful, but you know, they're good social proof and good for good for bragging about an incredible place to you know, interact with your audience. So what I've been doing on my podcast is every week, if people listen on good pods and leave me a rating or a review or even just like it shows that they've listened, I shout them out. So that's a fun thing to do. Hey, Ariel, we're like to talk to people with the followers on good Pods. I wish I could get all those followers. And that's saying something, you know, like, look, I'm popular in the podcast space for podcast marketing stuff, but I'm not popular in the rest of the world. And I'm next to a lista Milano, so that's interesting. We'll just say that. Oh man, I was trying to build us up here. Here you go tearing us down. I'm just telling the truth. That's hilarious. By the way, I did. I did get a download on Friday from it, so there you go. That was me. Thank you. Who was that jerk behind that big good Pods movement? Dang him? Anyway, No, seriously appreciate everybody taking the time to do this. We'll be doing now. We love good Pods. Let me just say I love Good Pods. Like James said, they care a lot about the podcast space, and I'm a big fan of them because they're a big fan of podcasting. Just again, like Fuzz said, like I said, question everything, Yeah, good to throw that in there. Yeah, we and most of us have a pretty good relationship with the people of Good pods. They are awesome, So no, but again, thanks for everybody for joining. We'll be doing this every week, and I think we have a group of people here that really do care about giving back to the podcasting continent creator community. So I appreciate everybody who's been helping answer questions, and then everybody that's joining and asking questions. So hopefully we will see you all next week and have a good evening. Thank you for listening to the Podcasting Power Hour. Everyone is free to participate on Twitter spaces every Monday at nine pm Eastern time. To join, just follow Jeff at podcast underscore Father or Greg at Indie Dropping. If you found this podcast helpful, go into your podcast app and write a quick review. Other podcasters will see it and know this show is worth listening to. Also, I'll put a few links in the show notes for ways you can support the show. I think by now you know we love our coffee. Have a great week. Thank you for checking out this episode of Indie Podcaster. I really do appreciate it. If you're interested and learning more about this podcast, you can go to podcast father dot com. If you're interested in all the different kind of work that I'm doing you can go to Jefftownsend dot Media contact form On there various other different podcasts and projects that I'm involved in that I think you will enjoy. But again, thank you for supporting me, and make sure you support Indie Drop In Network like we covered at the beginning, get your podcast featured on there. Until I see you next time, take care of yourself and keep being you and keep being great. Jeff Townsend Media, seize you good night. And the question is do I stay here? Will you be back? Are you gonna come back? Will you be back? Are you coming back
