What you're gonna do, brother, when Jeff Townsend Media runs wild on you. Have you been searching for a podcast? Do you want to learn from some great content creators? Well you've come to the right place Indie Podcaster with your host Jeff Townsend, the Indie podcast Father. All right, all right, all right, this is Jeff Townsend. Thank you for checking out another episode of Indie Podcaster. This podcast is made for podcasters and other content creators. Certainly don't consider myself a guru, or either do any of my friends that will be featured in these episodes. But what we do like to do is talk content creation, pick each other's brains, and have a good time. I'm proud to mention that this podcast is sponsored by Indie drop In. Now, let me tell you something about Indie Dropping. This is an awesome network that my friend Greg has created. What he does is drop episodes from independent content creator into his established podcast audience on his feed, and he shares your episodes to an audience that already exists. Yes, it's like free advertisement promotion for your podcast. He spent a lot of time, money, and effort building it, and he already has an audience interested in the content, and he can certainly help you by sharing your content is great promotion. Go to indie drop in dot com slash creators and check it out. If you're a comedy, true crime, paranormal, for various other different kinds of podcasts, you can benefit from this. So I really encourage you once again go to indie drop in dot com slash creators and see if you can get your stuff featured on indie drop in. We'll go back to the podcast here Indie Podcasters. So what we've currently been doing is sharing content from three different projects that I'm involved in. The first is Good Morning Podcasters with my good friend Fuzz Martin. We also do some content on podcasting Sucks, and then in these episodes you will also hear some content from podcasting Power Hour. Podcasting Power Hour is a live thing we do on Twitter spaces. We get a whole bunch of great podcast minds together we talk podcasting. So if you're a content creator a podcaster, I think you'll take something away from every episode of the content I'm going to share with you. With that being said, make sure you check out Eddie drop in and make sure you enjoy this episode. I think it's important that we all continue to learn and grow every day, and that will help us become even better content creators. That's certainly what I try to do, learn something new every day. I'm excited to share this content with you. I think it'll be a learning experience for you. Let's get to this episode, and I hope you have a great time listening to it. Welcome to Podcasting Power Hour with your host Jeff Townsend aka the Indie podcast Father. I'm your co host Greg from Indie Dropping Network. Podcasting Power Hour is recorded live every Monday at nine pm Eastern Time on Twitter Spaces. Every week, an experienced panel of podcasters and other experts tackle your podcast in questions. We will, of course put links to all of our guests and any irrelevant information in the show notes. All right, let's get this party started, Greg, except the co host invite, have your eyes has gone worse? And Sam? Sorry about that. I had to, which is fifteen seconds more than it gives you. That's true. He doesn't call me old, though I don't know what he calls me an idiot. I think I'd never say anything negative about anybody. I'm always on the receiving end. I heard you were making podcasters quick. Oh no way, was me. I did that? That's my fault. No, you didn't. Yeah, I know you're back. You're back, doesn't seem like it's stuck. You did like a classic Oscar Award winning can walk off and now you're back better than ever. Best episode you ever put up. Listen to it today. I thought it was great. Thank you. I appreciate it. I'd actually been working on it before I had my little meltdown, but it was a necessary thing, and now I have a clearer picture of what I'm gonna do for my next steps. And it's all thanks to Jeff and Jeff Alone podcast. Father. You gotta have meltdowns, man, This makes me get a nap afterwards. It's right. Well, Jeff was the doctor, you know, you gotta you know, you got to give some credit to the person who caused the wound too, because without both, you'd still be in trouble. Tanner, I was waiting for you to do an episode this week called maybe you don't have bodies at dysmorphia, maybe you really are fat, But that would have been an accurate thing for something I would never have done that though. That's that's my way out. Of my zone of expertise. You guys are just too funny. Well, we might as well go ahead and get go win here. Welcome to Podcasting Power Hour. Here on is day the eleventh. Tell it's the eleventh of July. Already incredible. We were gone last week celebrating the fourth of July, and we have some interesting guests today. I will start off with my co host Greg from INDI dropping. How you doing, Hey, Jeff, how's it going? It's going, man, Thanks for helping out always, always thanks everybody who showed up and who will come drop by during the hour. Shout out to fuzz mayor the fuzz mayor the Fuzzy mayor however you want, award it mayor mcfuzz. What's up? Okay, that's good to see you. Jim Mallard from The Mallard Report. Eleven years in the podcast on this podcast, right, Jim? Something like that? But who's counting? Hey, Jim, one doesn't matter. Have you heard Tanner's latest episode? Uh? No, oh that's how you make it? Eleven years? Fucking rick Wow? Speaking of potty mouth himself, Tanner Campbell, Good morning, podcasters. What's up Tanner? Oh? Man? That one gave me a headache. I laughed. You appreciate that. Uh, glad to see everybody. Hopefully not everybody here wants me dead this week. That's we'll see how it goes. Is it true you're calling yourself the best kept secret in podcast? I would fucking never do that, and that's amazing. I would never do that. I would pay someone else to say that about me, but I would never think of myself. So I'm not sure I want to be here, but I'm just here just for the ane of you. Spray painted your EV twenty goal yet and be dazzled it. I'm like a like a I'm like a Boca bitch. We're spicy today. And before we get to the special guests that's joined us for the first time, we will go ahead and introduce the Hall of Fame podcaster from the School of Podcasting. It's Dayact. And this is a great uh lesson in marketing because I haven't heard Tanner's episode yet and I'm so close to just ditching this and go I'm like, it's gotta be good. So when you get your audience going, I wonder what he's talking about. That's that's great marketing. So it'll be amazing, Dave, You'll quit this episode and then you'll quit podcasting altogether. Okay, all right, paraphrase I just said along the lines of, yeah, you might have imposter syndrome, but you also might be terrible, so you know, reflect on that and if you suck it stop. I Yeah, I just did a thing of if you want to have fun, if you want to make your head explode, go over to kickstarter and see what people are trying to do to earn money and the reason the reason they want money, Because it turns out that the reason why people shows are not getting, you know, huge, it's all the technology has nothing. I'm sure they're all fine on content, they just need more technology. And I was like, I don't think that's the case. I don't know if I any better than you just did yourself, Dave. I sure wish it was technology though, because I could use all the help I can get. Okay, last, it's certainly not least. The special guest tonight is the co founder CEO of Quill and co host Fatima. Did I say your name right? Fatima? You did? Thank you for thank you for asking, thank you for joining. Yeah, it's great to be here. I have to warn everyone it's like nine oh seven pm Eastern Standard time, and I'm pretty uh narcoleptic at this hour. I'm like an early bedtime person, so not my prime hour, but still really excited to be here. Oh it's okay. Greg usually falls asleep in the first ten minutes. We won't take offense. Say so thank you for joining. A special shout out to my little brother who's in the crowd, Ronnie. You may see him down there. Hey, Ronnie, make sure you send him terrible dms. Let's give him niggies if I hear about this Twitter account anymore. Geez snoochy booches. Yeah, someone's cranky. Okay, Greg, I'm gonna go ahead and let you kick us off with something, And if you have any question or anything you want to discuss, go ahead and start requesting the mic. Yeah, no problem. I appreciate that. So my topic of the week is really something I've been working on for the last couple of weeks, and Dave, I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on this. The question is episodic podcast. We talked about it a little bit last time. Should we season or should we not season? And what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to collect statistics of people who are episodic and season and try to understand if they lose audience on the break, how long it takes to come back from it, if there's no change, Because you know, more and more podcasts are not set to auto download. I mean, certainly Apple is by default, but most I think these days are not. So you know, I'm still on the fence. Talk to Fuzz about it a little bit today and it didn't help. I rarely am a help. Greg. Yeah, so that's let's just start off there, since you know I'm selfish and it's of interest to me, and then we'll hopefully we'll get questions. I'll hop in I as always because it's a podcast question. It depends, so there's there's no one size fits all. I am not a huge fan. I'm way too paranoid to do seasons because just because I take time off doesn't mean my audience is going to like. Well, I would listen to podcasts in the car today, but you know, Dave took off, so I guess I'll just sit here in silence. No, they're gonna go find something else to listen to and I'm too much of a control freak. I'm worried they're gonna find something else and then I lose my spot in their routine. However, if you're doing some sort of you know, audio drama and it takes weeks and months to get this thing together and you're just completely crispy, obviously for health reasons, take a break, don't you know, drive yourself into the ground. And I'm with Greg, I would love to know if people have taken seasons, they taking time off, when they come back, how many people stayed, how many people did, and things like that. I'd love to know that, because again, that's my fears. If you leave, you know, you lose your your spot. I mean, I used to listen to Mike Rowe when I took a shower and that spot and Mike started doing long shows, he changed his format. Yeah, and he changed his format from really short shows to really long shows. So now, and this sounds very weird. In the morning, I'm listening to Tanner Campbell Good morning podcasters as I shower, So I don't know how to make a vomit noise. I'm not good at those. Yeah, So that's my thoughts. I've you know, I get the key. I think the other key there is you said it was it's not seasoned. The other phrase it's yeah, so is it epixotic or is it the other one that you're talking about where they have to So yeah, I'm I'm talking about specifically episodic shows and introducing seasons because right, seasons is typically for serials, right, and you know, the that's the way I've always podcasted. I've never I've never had seasons. I've always done only episodic shows. And the way I see it is, or the way I saw it, which as you can tell him, I'm rethinking it. The way I saw it is is that you know, let's say you get four weeks vacation at your job. You know, I think an audience would be accepting of you taking you know, four weeks off or five weeks or whatever during the year and getting best of shows or feed drops or some other like content in place of yours, guest hosting things like that, but to never be without an episode. That was my That was my personal philosophy on things, because, like you said, I'm super paranoid that maybe I'm you know, I think I heard it on maybe I heard on your show, Dave or you said in here I can't remember, but you said, like, you never know if you're good enough to where people like can't wait for you to get back, or if you're just part of their routine. Well, I mean, I just did this. I just did this with practical stoicism. I took six weeks off. And it's not a it's an episodic Oh what are we saying here? Yeah, episode, it's an episodic show. And I just I think from the outset I explained that these were gonna be done by books of by book. People who listen to the show will know what I'm talking about. If not, it doesn't really matter. And so when I got to the end of the first book, I just said, all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna take a break. See you motherfuckers. That take for weeks and when I when I left, I had the podcast was number fifty two to forty eight. It bounced back and forth in the philosophy category on Apple Podcasts. That's when I left. I just came back three weeks ago. This is the third week that just passes last Saturday, and it's now at number thirty seven in the philosophy category, and as far as listeners are concerned, I also switched podcast hosting providers when I came back, so I don't have a complete grasp on that yet, but it seems as though I went from about fifteen thousand monthly listens for a weekly show to what is looking more like almost twice that twenty seven thirty thousand. In the absence it's actually grown. It hasn't. It hasn't gotten, it hasn't diminished, but that could be. You know, this is one of the problems with the way that we can't track podcasts that hidden in that gain may be a significant loss, and I can't tell because you can't you can't divide that up. You get what I mean when I say that, Yeah, well, we know by your Apple statistics that your engaged listeners absolutely went down for some period of time, but your total listeners could have gone up, so people could have been testing it out or whatever. But you did have a little dip for sure on Apple, which doesn't paint the whole picture. Because you know, if you're like me and my show, one of my shows is like sixty percent I Heart, So when iHeart takes a dip, I get hit hard. So it just doesn't It doesn't paint the whole picture. But I'd be interested to see in a month what your engaged listener stat looks like. Again, well, what does Fatima think? Since I feel like Fatima might have some pretty good insights here. She is, after all, the CEO of Quill, which is a pretty bad ass company. What do you think on this, Fatima? Yeah, so I am in the camp of every podcast should probably be broken up into seasons similar to a Netflix or you know, Crave ra Amazon Prime show. And here's my thing. After every show that we produce, we like to take the time to do an autopsy on what's going well, do a deep dive into the analytics and think about how we can make things bigger and better, and how consumers are responding to the data. What is the average consumption rate? Like playing around with different formats, are there particular drop off points? What insights can we draw? And if you're constantly focused on just creating new content, you're really not going to take the time take those four six to eight however long you need weeks to actually you know, do a little bit of a dissection on your content and think about ways that you can change it up for your audience. And you know, we all know when with podcasting, what really matters is consistency. Consistency is key and you know, fresh seo patterns, and your users are looking for you to drop content at a particular time. And if you're producing a weekly show or a bi weekly show, it's pretty tall order to constantly be, you know, keeping up with the content without taking breaks from your episodes. And so I'm always in the in the camp of I think people should break up their shows into seasons, and they can be broken up from anywhere from six to twenty four episodes and then letting your users know after a season is complete that you'll be back in forty eight weeks with new content dropping, so please subscribe to our show. And that's really how we've always done it. And Fatima, it's not literally that you need to break it into seasons. What you're saying is whether you're actually splitting them into seasons in your podcast hosting provider, or you're just setting the expectation that breaks are taken. Exactly, that's what's important. Exactly, that's exactly it, so that your users are you know, aligned with what you're posting and publishing schedule is and that in between content you will take some time to go away and come back with a fresh perspective or a rebrand as we like to call it. And if you look at a lot of the MPR, Gimblet Wondery productions, I mean the usually you know will we'll take away their content after a set number of episodes and come back with a new structure, our new concept and new theme. And a lot of work goes into that, you know, research and pre production phase and doing a deep dive into your analytics. And I just don't think it's feasible to be proactively creating content, at least not good content while you're also thinking of ways on how you can make your show better. And that's why she's top thirty under thirty folks, you should be listening to her. I want to get Jim Mallard and Dave Dave Jackson's probably the rest of his hairs went great, but hearing this But no, Jim Mallard, you have a live show every week. What are your thoughts? You're doing terrific. Jim, I've got to get used to this this mic button I have to push to talk with used to. I'm used to talking myself. It's difficult. I think that depends on what type of show you I like. So then I guess I've just fallen in that habit and that comfort level. And you know if I take some many weeks off that bad things start getting lazy. Well that's part of it, right, It's like drum or anything like that. I'm just doing a one off I mean, I hope pretty much come off as one off interview. So I think part of it is how you feel about it. I think Fatima and Dave and everybody up here would agree that you should take breaks when you need them. And but but there are people who, I mean, I do it daily and a weekly and another weekly, and for me, doing those are like that is a kind of therapy to me almost to be involved in that. It sounds like maybe Jim is a little bit the same there, like he likes the work. I feel like this question, the question like that's my you know, when you've got the family and the life and the kids and all this other stuff going on in that block of time. Tuesday night, I got like I get up in the studio and all that world World's first world from go away for a couple of hours and I get to focus on something else for a little bits everything else. So that's what that's what Dave said, right, It's it depends. Well, I don't think breaks, so I don't think breaks are really the question, right. I think Fatima hit it on the head, like I'm thinking that you need a delineation between what you have done and what you're gonna do, because if you if you don't take a break, how are you going to put a line in the sand if you want to change something major? Right, You're just gonna go from episode you know one and forty to episode one and forty one with like a new co host or a new theme or a new something you know. To me, I think, you know, I was thinking back on my past podcasting and you know, just as a basic example, on my fandom podcast that I had for a long time, I started, uh, we started covering like science fiction, fantasy and like superhero stuff, DC, Marvel, like everything fandom, and then we whittled it down over time to mostly science fiction and like Marvel. And it's really awkward, and I like a like a weird transition over time, like if you started episode one and then listen to episode like two hundred. They're completely different shows. I mean we even lost a co host and so breaks. Yes, but I do think that, you know, I'm leaning more toward even creating seasons in your hosting, breaking it up, putting a line in the sand. It gives you something to market to, It gives you you can get some new cover art. You can you know, you can redefine your niche, Fatima, Is that kind of what you're saying, like, give you give you a chance to just like almost not quite start over, but iterate. Yeah, I think that's that's exactly it. You know, iterating is like a really good way of putting it. It's just you know, pulling your audience, serving them, collecting feedback and insights, and then finding a way to engage with them further. It's it's a lot of work, and I think professional podcasters need to spend more time doing a deeper dive into their analytics and seeing where the drop offs are, where the trends pointing to what can they be doing to increase the production quality of their show or play around with different themes and concepts and knows there a whole new slew of guests that they want to source. There's so many different ways to take your show to the next level, and I just think that sometimes podcasters get caught in this cycle of just constantly create, create, create, without thinking about, well, who are we creating this show for? And it's better to be something for someone rather than everything to everyone, And sometimes you really need to take step back and be a little bit more introspective about that. Well, Fatima, and I mean absolutely no disrespect by this text. This is actually a compliment. You are operating at a level that I think most podcasters, at least I'll speak for myself and I'll speak for Dave because he listens to me in the shower. You were operating at a level that other people aren't. And when I say that, I think I mean in regards to your team and the assets you have and the resources you have so for doing what you just described, how might you suggest that an independent podcast like like myself or even I know Dave's kind of small team, so I'm kind of making fun Dave, I'm sorry, or most of the other people up here, how would you suggest that that those one team or the one person or two person teams do what you just suggested, because I think you're right. Yeah, And it's interesting that you say that, because you know, actually that's one of the reasons we launched the Quail Podcast Awards. We were so tired of the same you know, production companies or you know, the NPR, the Gimlet, the Wondering podcasts of the of the world getting all the recognition profiling, and we're like, there's some amazing indie content created shows that just aren't you know, being able to get the same line light because they just don't have those millions of dollars in production budgets. And I would say some of my favorite podcasts are definitely the ones that are independently created, you know, the ones that you typically listen to in the shower and aren't superscripted and rehearsed, and you can tell that there's you know, a lot of love that's gone into creating the show. In terms of what you can be doing as a one person team, we're you know, we have two companies. One is Quill, which is absolutely as you mentioned, a production company that works with Fortune five hundred friends to launch their branded content. But we also have a company called co Host. It's a product that we built for indie content creators and professional podcasters, and that's really what we had in mind. It's like, when you're one person shop creating content, but you still want to take your show to the next level, what technology can you use? Someone at the beginning of this com mention this I think it was Tanner, which is you need to have the right tech in place in order to understand the ROI of your podcast, who's listening to your show, and then from there, how do you find your audience? And I think that that's you know, this is a shameless plug, but that's what we're really doing with our product. Co host it's you know, nineteen dollars a month, so it's not like you need a whole team of people around you, but it gives you access to data and even if you're not on our hosting platform, using platforms that you know, allow you to see where your downloads are coming in from, where you need to double down on your marketing efforts, and how you can further engage with your listeners. I think that's really the future of podcasting. Preach that was That was awesome. Thanks Fatima Buzz. Do you have any thoughts before we go to Ed has his hand up and Michelle has requested to speak. Anybody else that has a economy supposed to go ahead, and I'm supposed to go after Fatima. Well cool, thanks, Jeff. I think the only thing I would say is when taking breaks on an episodic type of show, the type of content you make matters, I guess in terms of that. Right, So, even if it's episodic, if you're doing current event type stuff, people aren't going to be able to go check out your back catalog Tanner. Your stoic podcast is evergreen, and it's something that you know, people can walk away, and it's kind of like reading an audiobook almost where you can set it down and pick it back up. Whereas if you're doing something that deals with current events or anything that's in the now, you're you know, taking a break could be kind of deadly to that, you know, people picking that back up and herning to back on in the shower. So that's when I was talking to Greg earlier today. My wife's podcast is very niched, and it's neared toward teachers, specifically toward helping teachers find free tech tools that they can use in their classrooms, and so she's speaking only to teachers, and mostly the teachers in the US and the You know, so we do seasons. We do going on our fifth season, and we see a drop off at the end of the year when teachers are fed up and don't feel like learning about teaching anymore and or talking about teaching or having anything to do with that. So we turn the show off right around the end of the school year here in the Midwest, and then we'll drop an episode in the middle of the summer in order to remind people that we exist, and then we'll pick them back up at the beginning of the school year, and our audience back very quickly. But again, it's really topic based. So that's all I get. Fatimas was way better. Yeah, no shit, Tanner, thank you really sucking up here. This is a little over the top. I'm just kidd ed. You had your hand up for a while. Go ahead. Well, I'm just an incompetent hobbyist. But recently I split my four years of podcasts into seasons just by year twenty nineteen, twenty twenty two, and I've noticed that I'm actually getting more listeners to older episodes now that I've kind of made them more easier to find because I broke them into specific years. And then I've noticed that every time I've taken a break, I'm about to take my third break in two years. And I've never really had any problems with people being patient waiting for the next episode out. I don't know if it's because of me or because of what I'm talking about, but I've never had these problems. I just wanted to throw that in as someone who is probably the least wisest of anybody talking right now, I really think how Mark as Quick when he takes a break. He always says, Hey, I'm going to be taking you know, a six week break, and I'll be back, and I'm doing it because I'm to spend time with my wife and kids or whatever, working on a project, whatever that might be. I really like when a host is I'm actually speaking of that, I'm going to put my mic I'm mute because my daughter's going to come hug me good night. So go ahead amongst yourselves here. You can't use ask with as an example because his audience is the same as my audience as podcasters, and there's like a certain amount of understanding that like Dave if you tell about the podcasters you're taking a break, so you're just like, oh, cool, I get it. Yeah, that's it. But I do think that's a key ingredient, though, the problem is when you just disappear and anytime if you take your car into a mechanic and they go, yeah, it's going to take about a half hour, so you sit in the waiting room and now it's forty five minutes and now it's an hour. The more you don't know what's going on, the worse the thoughts become. You're like, oh my god, it's going to be eight million dollars. So when you just leave your podcast and it's like, well that was weird. He was doing one every week and then all of a sudden, I don't know. I hope he's okay. I hope he doesn't have some disease or whatever. So I think one of the keys to a successful break is letting your audience know, hey, I'm taking a break and I'll be back on this date, and then they know, oh okay, so they know when to come back. Anyone else wants to join in the discussion or have a question or anything podcasting, go ahead and request that being said, we'll go to you. Michelle Me Michelle Hi. My name is Michelle Jackson. I run an award winning show called Michelle's Money Hungry, and I actually want to talk about both the taking a break and changing the format. I've been podcasting for about four years. I was doing daily shows. I'm in the personal finance space, so there's always money things coming up and pop culture stuff, and there came a point where I just got tired of having to produce the content weekly, but I still wanted the show to release weekly, and so finally, just for my own creative juices and just timing, I changed it to seasons and designed content specifically to address an issue like deep do a Deep Dive. So right now I'm literally doing a thirteen week series all about the student loan forgiveness policy. What I've discovered is the downloads have tripled, the feedback has been incredible. I get sponsors for this content, so it's easier for me to get sponsors for content when it's siloed like that. I'm in the process of preparing for this for the fall, when I'm doing an entire fall all about women and money, and I think it's going to be much much easier again to get sponsors the pacings better. So I did all the recording in two weeks and it's just freed up an amazing amount of time throughout the summer, even though episodes are releasing weekly. So if you're wondering, like how people react to you changing what you're doing, for me like it's been overwhelmingly positive. I also take breaks. I think the past three years in particular have been very stressful, So I've taken breaks like for six week two months, and I just let people know, hey, I'm taking a break. I have a multi media platform though, so by that what I mean is I have a website, I do freelance writing, I have other things that I'm doing, so people do know I'm out there and doing other projects. But I think if you just speak to your audience, they're pretty pretty open to it. And because I'm able to market these seasons better, it's just been a wonderful experience. I highly recommend it if you're wondering if it's a thing to do, so, similar to one of the speakers before, I would do it episode a week. You know, maybe some pop culture moment and money happened, or maybe there was a policy that happened, and it just got to the point where it wasn't as sustainable as before, and this has been so much better. Michelle A couple questions. If you don't mind, do you think that your downloads have tripled because you've you're you know, you've serviced a underserviced niche, or do you think these are personal finance listeners who who just like the topic. How do you think that that happened. I just think that I don't think it's so much an underserved niche. I just think that it's a very Actually I'll say it this way. I do think you're right in thinking that maybe people aren't talking about that specific topic as a part of a show, like I haven't necessarily seen other shows doing that. I think it's relevant, so it's it's something that's top of mine right now. But it's also evergreen because quite frankly, I don't think that I think that whatever policy changes occur or don't occur, it's still an issue that's going to be with us for years. So it's an evergreen piece of content that impacts a lot of different people. So I think that's part of the reason why there's so much interest in it, women in money, same thing. I've gotten a lot of buzz around people being excited to listen to the show and the concept that I'm doing for that series, and that one's kind of ballsy because I'm going to do the whole probably the whole fall. It's all about women and money and different moments and their money. So just touching on, like doing a deep dive in conversations that people probably would like to have but aren't having. I think it's helpful. Also with my show, I don't do the boring like this is how you win boost. I think it's so boring, And most shows in personal finance I find do a lot of the same content, And so I think it's helpful for me in terms of like the response to the content that I do, because I approach it very differently. So for example, my most downloaded episode was about the personal finances of a sex worker. Why because no one talks about that, but it's really an important conversation about body autonomy and policy. And so I think in creating your content, you have to you have to consider what's interesting for people that's not being covered, and why would it be interesting to people, like who are going to listen. I don't know that it's just personal finance people listening. I think it's people who have student loans. I think it's people who are pissed off that people might get loan forgiveness. I think there's people who have very strong feelings both ways. I think there are people who have no idea how it works. And so that series is touching on a lot of that that different types of those different types of information, and then I'm marketing that content across my platforms. You'll be sorry, no, no, go ahead, Greg, I thought you were. I thought no no. I was saying, you're gonna You're gonna be a great case study because this is exactly what I'm hoping to learn. Because what you're doing is, you know, you're kind of you're staying in the same general niche, but you're moving around in like your focused niche. So when in the in the fall, I might DM you and just see how it's going. Please for my own please do personal knowledge. Absolutely do. And I'm in the process of By the way, this side note, I kind of quickly mentioned that it's easier to find partners for this content because you can identify organizations or people who are really aligned with it. So right now I'm pitching for responsors and partnerships for the Women and Money episodes, and I'm hoping that I can get that all taken care of before they go live. So the goal is to raise a certain amount of money, pay for my time and for the content, and then release them with those with those partnerships. So we'll see how it goes. It went well for last year, and so I think it's going to do better this year. And if I could just give like a quick vote of confidence. There's only two people I listened to who talk about money, and one of them is my girl Katie from Fort Collins, and the other one is Michelle, who is from them and so they both live, they both live where I live, and they're both killers. So if you don't subscribe to Money with Katie or to Michelle's podcast, and you care about finances, especially if you're a woman, I guess. But even if you're a fucking white dude me, I would never talk to Tanner about money though. No no, no, no no no. He needs all the podcasts help he can get. Yeah, yeah, don't talk to me about money. I'm bad with money. It's not your phone. Podcasting Power Hour is part of indeed drop in network. If you are a podcaster looking to grow your listeners, check out indie drop in dot com. Indie drop in is always free and we have opportunities right now for comedy, true crime, scary and paranormal podcasts. Just go to indie drop in dot com to learn more. So one one piece of anecdotal information in favor of seasons is on indie drop in. When people send me episodes to feature, I always say, send me multi part episodes if you can. I have noticed a crawl my platform that multi part episodes outperform single part episodes. And I just think that people love stories and stories that go on for a long time. So having a season focused on a topic that has a story kind of woven through many episodes, six, twelve, you know, twenty four, however many I just can't see how it would be bad. It's it can only be good. I think the the only fear is maybe not even real of losing losing listeners. So as a that's a it was a great comment. Thank you so much, Michelle. Like that cleared it up, It helped. That helped me so much anybody has anything else to comment on that before we go to Pixie. Yeah, just one thing. I want to be mean for a second. I want to be angry Tanner for a minute. These motherfuckers are listening for free. If you want to take a break, I take a break. I don't know. I don't know about you, Tanner, but every week that I'm off is hundreds. I'll just say hundreds of dollars in ad revenue that I miss. That's because you monetize the podcast like a school. But that's okay. We can talk about that. I wasn't going to say thousands or ten thousands because I'm not you Pixie. What's going on? What's going on? Guys? Uh? So we did season We are getting ready for season four. First season was us, you know, just having fun with the hobby. Those twenty five episodes. The first episode are introduction, the twenty fifth episode that was our wrap up, and so then we took breaks off between each season, kind of working on our studio, working on sound quality, working on ourselves as podcasters. When we came to season two, we did new music, new artwork, and so you could see a progression every season that we've done we've been able to get guests on. We've also been able to add video to each to each thing that we've done, we've added a little bit better stuff, better quality. There's a connection between me and my co host that didn't start out at the beginning, and so and each each of the episodes sort of well, they all tie in together and a bigger picture, but each of the seasons have their own little like season two no, Season three was down and dirty. So the next the next season is going to be like stripper superheroes, you know, like our origin are we villains or are we superheroes? So, because me and my co hosts have a knack for comic books, that's where we're going to take our next season when we come back to it. We're already planning. I already have six interviews lined up here local where I'm at for my podcast. So I think taking breaks, being able to understand how good you are, what you understand, what you're coming back to at a podcast, it really does help and grow and develop you as an individual. I'm still not very good sometimes, and I think that having a partner in your podcast as help and having seasons really can help somebody I'm glad that I have seasons. That way, I can take a break, I can do the things that I want to do and not be overwhelmed, and I can also count down the seasons giving people a rough estimate of what's going on. Only noticed I'm looking at my analytics. I only noticed that they've only slightly dropped, and I'm retaining a lot of people because I'm still marketing the podcast, and I'm still doing throwback, you know, Thursdays and letting people know that there there's good content for people to listen, no matter if we're putting things out new and fresh or it's just stuff in the past. That's what I had to say as I killed her room. I was waiting for Tanner to talk because he asked the comment me and I like to talk. I'm a tough fucking podcaster. Jeff, fuck you. Wow, someone's a little bit angry. All right, we have somebody else requestion. Let's see, trying to make sure that you're content creators. So if you are not, yeah, send me a d so I'm not accepted you because I'm trying to vet three people here. Sorry, David. Well, before we move off this topic, who is the woman that was talking about that she took seasons. That's a pixie. Pixie, Okay, Pixie awesome. My question is because as I was listening to that, you changed your music. You changed this, like, you changed a lot of stuff, which is great if you want it. I always say your podcast is a recipe, not a statue. How do you determine because the only thing I didn't hear you work on was your content. Like I went out and researched my audience to find out what they really wanted to hear. Are you doing any of that kind of stuff? Yes, we're always engaged with who are core audiences. I've known my core audience from basically episode twenty until now, so I know who's actively listening to my podcast. Because of my analytic ex I know who I'm talking to because we do a lot of to and fro with people who are engaged. We send out surveys, I send out stickers, I do a lot of If you give me feedback, I give you said item. So it's kind of it. It really is. My podcast is spicy and it's it's all about strippers, so we don't have a lot of female listeners. Hit Dave shower selection. Just that's it. We know who's listening to our podcast. It's men ages twenty five to fifty five that have or wanted to go into a strip club and they really like the kind of content content that we bring out. They I've had a couple of people reach out and say, hey, you need to drop your co host and it needs just to be you know, female strippers, and I tell them time and time again, the show is not a show unless there's the two of us. Those are some thirsty ass they really are. They really are. They're like, you need to have less men talk, and I was like, wait, it's it's bad, but we do. We know who our target audiences, we know who we're marketing to, and especially me here on Twitter, I know who's going to gravitate towards my podcast. Nice. Yeah, you definitely sound like you're You're definitely focused and targeted, which is great. So I just when you were talking about all the other stuff, I was like, I didn't hear a thing about the content, So I just wanted to make sure and you're definitely headed in the right direction. Thank you, Dave. Chris, you requested to speak, go ahead. Sorry, I was just finishing up that DM for you there, No, I appreciate that now. I really just hopped on because Pixie has you know, had nothing but great things to say about this space, and I tried to listen when I can. Today was just one of those random days where you know, I had the day off at least from side gigs, but that doesn't mean that I didn't have like a stack of admin tasks to get through, and my latest episode getting that published was one of them, so I at least did accomplish that and forced myself to make new episode art for at this time, which took a lot longer than it should have. But I wanted to ask because this has just been one of those It's been in my gut all day and I feel like if I don't talk about it, I'm not going to get it out. I really went off the rail. I mean, I just threw away the script and I just said, you know what. I know we're supposed to be doing part three of our Timothy Leary series right now, but because of what happened last week, I wanted to kind of recap what I went through as a lobbyist and activist forming like a two day protest at our state legislature that actually led to like a piece of legalization passing in real time to save the hemp industry from this like you know weird deadline that they put on North Carolina version of the FARMAC back in twenty eighteen, and I wanted to use that as like a motivational piece to let people know that yes, it's okay to be angry, but if we put that anger towards something productive, we can still make change, especially on the state level right now. But it's just a lot more dropping of the F bomb than normal. And I call out some people, like some rather important people, on some very specific things that I probably should have gone easier on them. But I also feel like my listener base, as small as it is, does kind of grow from people expecting me to be as passionate and as raw and as honest as I always am. But it's such a drastic change from my usual just you know, reading the story that I've kind of already built up in my head when I'm covering like a specific individual, or if I'm covering like a specific bill or a topic. This was more about me sharing like a blow for blow emotionally of what happened the day that we watched, like all this occur in real time. But I when I went back and listened to it, and it's already published, so it's not like I can take it back. But when I went back and listened to it, I couldn't tell if I was disappointed in how much I let the language get away from me, or if I was kind of just I don't want to say justifying it, but feeling like it was justifiable in the moment because of it being kind of a off the rails train of thought, very passionate, you know, improved moment of audio that turned into an episode that I'm I think I'm proud of, but I'm still not one hundred percent sure. And I just I didn't know if anybody had any advice on how to look at that, like objectively, just from the point of like, did I go overboard with the language you're asking this group? You probably didn't go bard of the language, at least for us. Here's what I'd say. If your audience is used to X and you suddenly deliver why and I talk I talk about this frequently in regards to politics. I personally think it's a really fucking bad thing and disrespectful thing to do to drop a political discussion in the middle of a podcast about comic books because something happened, because I feel like those people might be showing up to your show to escape that shit. It's everywhere. It doesn't. That doesn't sound like exactly what you did, but it sounds like what you did was in alignment rather with your core audience, but was just a little bit different and a little bit more let's say, uh, graphic, wanton, and gratacious in the language, which is probably okay. But if you're going to do that, and I think you maybe should continue to do that, if you feel passionate about it and it relates to your audience, maybe have like once a month or once every other week and publish it as a you know, publish it as a I don't know, an after dark episode or I hate to use the word bonus, I hate that fucking word. But just an episode that is labeled as being distinctly different the normal episodes, but that some of your audience is still an online I don't think there's a problem with that, Chris, Why don't you take a look at your average consumption rate for that episode and see if people dropped off in the first ten to fifteen to twenty minutes or if they stayed till the end. They stayed till the end, well there's your answer. And if you found that they were dropping off in the fiftieth person tile, then you probably went overboard. And I feel like there's been a good enough basis set with you know, because we're only like five episodes in, but the podcast idea and the people kind of building up the audience waiting for it to happen has been going on for about two years with the whole movement, so there was already kind of like a built in fan base that kept asking for this over and over and over again. And I finally with again Pixie's encouragement and help from She was one of the first people that I met with all that, you know, finally actually getting me to sit down and record the first episode. And I got lucky enough to like fall into one of the most amazing producers I've ever worked with. I mean, doesn't charge me because he believes in the movement that much, and what the podcast is for, I just record the audio is like one stream of conscious thought. With subscripting. I email it to him, and he has like a completed episode with full scory music that he writes himself. He knows how to read my cues audibly, Like if I start going into a bit, he knows exactly what music needs to play before then. And I don't ever have to communicate with him. It's like he just already knows all my thoughts without me having to say it. And I hope to God nothing ever happens to him, because if so, like I would just not have a podcast, Like he is so much more of the talent behind my show than I am. You know, I'm just the one that kind of fell into a topic that you know, he could speak passionately about. But I my audience face turns in because they're always waiting for me sometimes to snap, I feel like, because it's always there under the surface. And people have told me that like they they like the kind of manic calm of the episodes because they can always tell that I'm holding back a bit, And so I'm just hoping that once they realized when I'm not holding back and I talk about punching a senator in the dick more than once, that that's not going to just like scare them away forever. But I don't think that it will. Yeah, you're the Lewis Black of cannabis advocacy. Congratulations, stick with it. In my case, I was getting ready to record an episode, and this is back when Joe Rogan had just moved to Spotify, and article came out and said something like seventy nine episodes of Joe's show had been pulled. And I opened up the Curmudgeon Handbook and it said, oh, I must do a podcast about open RSS. It's like it's in my DNA. I had to do it. And I just went off on freedom of speech and watch out, they're all gonna come and get you know, it's all great, they're gonna come take our guns, They're gonna take our free speech, blah blah blah. And I just want to And I had a listener of mine and said, I tune in to your show to get away from that shit. I don't want to talk politics. I'm like so, so I think it was Tanner that said that, And that was very much a case where they tuned in for a and I gave them Z and they're like, yeah, no, don't do that. So I uh, And it was. It was very much just in a moment, like it was unscripted, and then I tried to edit it into some sort of of of uh so it sounded like I had put some thought into it and I hadn't. And it's one of those where you get done, You're like, oh, I just chewed up all the time where I'm supposed to do something that I had planned, and now I'm either staying up till three in the morning to do the right stuff, or I'm going to put out the stuff that I just you know, vomited out of my face. And so in my case, my audience and it was one person. But if I have one person that contacts me, I'm like, okay, that's probably ten people. And whoever said that that's a good suggestion, I should go back and look and see how far people listen. But by one person was like, yeah, don't do that. Didn't do that anymore. Pay attention my old radio program directing mentor my Elliott rest in Peace just went to his celebration of life yesterday. But he used to always tell me what you don't say won't hurt you. So I guess that that's just a piece of advice. For editing is if you feel like you went over the edge when you're recording. It's great that we're all doing this and most of the time most of us here are doing this recorded and editing and post. You don't have to leave that stuff in. And even if it takes some extra time, if you're going to offend your audience, you can pull that out. So and that's coming from Mayor mcfuzz, a local politician who has an absolutely no politics rule on his show. So that's just my advice, all right, right, or or hear me out here, or be the shaving the way you wish to behave. You will repel the people who find that repulsive, and you will attract the people who like you the most. That's what brands do, right. Strong brands repel people and they attract people. And I don't know, Chris, You're five episodes in which made me giggle when you said that after asking such a serious question. So I think you're probably doing fine, Bud, And I know what's the serious question for libing five inn And I expect people to giggle at that. It's just there's been so many people that have been dangling, like massive funding and financing and support over my head for like the last two years, with a number of projects where it's like there's been the podcast, and then there's supposed to be a book that I'm working on, and then I'm also supposed to be doing another video project for a different company that all revolve around the same movement. None of anyone who's paid me for any of this, mind you, They just all kept telling me, this is what you need to do, this is what we believe you were meant to do. So by the time I actually finally got down to do it, I feel like if I didn't put out like the most polished, perfect product I could, I was somehow failing them based on all the support they were giving me over the last two years. And it did kind of create a complex when I started. Uh. In stoicism, we call that as sending to an untrue belief Uh. Yeah, don't assent to untrue beliefs. Man, If you're taking all that support, if you don't know that's true, have a conversation, find out if it's true. Maybe they're really happy with what you're doing. Yeah, take that support to Whole Foods and try to buy an avocado with it. Ask for money. I don't know what that means. All right, we got three people up here waiting Tanner yourself to do it. Man, I don't know how you do it. Uncontrolled Chaos podcast, you were next in mine? What you got? Okay, well, first of all, what's up everybody's spuds here from a metro kas podcast. Hey, Pixie, and I recognize somebody else. I forgot who it was. The big question I have is that my show Control Kas podcast is a birdly honest podcast with a splash of bullshit to the extent that we treated as zef Like, Okay, you're seeing a group of nut jobs that are just sitting there at a bar, you know, having some beers or your choice of alcoholic beverage, and you're just, you know, listening in on their conversation, like Pixie can voucher that, you know, of how weird my show is. The big question I have is promoting on social media. Now I can tweet until my thumb's going numb, but I'm getting like zero interaction. Is there a like a social media that's like, oh, this is like this is the social media to use for promoting podcasts? Or am I doing something wrong? I'm trying to figure it out because I've been doing this for like what almost fuck uh one hundred and was it one hundred and forty episodes so far? I think I don't remember, but I'm just trying to figure out, like the like the tips, anybody that has any tips on promoting on social media? Can you tell us what your last post was? Uh? Yeah, I posted it right up there. It was a clip from the late from the latest episode where I posted a clip from the from the episode, and uh, it was just a little tidbit like it's it's right up there if you can look with the screen. Yeah, I'm I'm in the you know, space, so I'm not off the real at the at the very top of the space, there's something cold chaos, I see. Yeah, okay, real quick way, we're all reviewing that. If Fatima has a hard stop here, she has another commitment to go to. Did want to give you a minute to talk about the work you're doing and recently launched co hosts and all that, because I appreciate you taking your time to jump on. Yeah. Absolutely, And I can't remember who was just asking about social before this, but you know, I think you can't really be on all of the platforms, and certain channels are really going to resonate with your content and certain channels won't. And I think I'm a huge proponent of using tracking links to see you know where your downloads and listeners are coming in from, so you can really double down those on those platforms rather than trying to do everything and trying to be everywhere. And sometimes it's the audience that you're really trying to track won't be on any of those channels, and that's okay too. In terms of the work that we're doing, As I mentioned, I own a production company. We work with Fortune five hundred brands like Microsoft and PwC and Expedia to launch their branded content. But we also have a product that we built for professional podcasters. It's the product that was built by podcasters for podcasters because we saw a lot of gaps and pain points within the industry. Found that you know, the product itself or the product itself is really catering to folks like yourselves who are really trying to take their show to the next level and understand who's listening to their podcast, how are they listening to it, and where can they find new audiences? And really that's the goal that we're trying to achieve, is help podcasters drawing their qualified audience, because we all know that podcasting is a marathon, not a sprint. But there's anything that we can do to try to accelerate growth. I'm all for it. So thank you so much Jeff and Greg and Tanner and everyone for having me. It's a great group of folks and this is a lot of fun. So looking forward to tuning in in the future for as a listener. So thank you for having me. Well, thank you for joining. I really do appree. All right, we'll get back Dave to you. Did you get a chance to review on Controlled Chaos post? I did, and I guess Uncontrolled Chaos has left the room. Yeah, it didn't make me want to click on it. I guess that's it. It was very yeah, very promotional, and it's a lot of posting of links of the show and not interacting with people or the uh, the type of audience. You know, it's not it's not audience interactions, say what it's about necessarily, Look this this room is actually a perfect example of this. Like Jeff and Greg and Fuzz and me all have podcasts Jeff and Greg and myself have podcasts about podcasting. Are we posting on You'll never see me share a fucking link to my to my show. Well, that's not true. I use Zapier once a day tweet out, hey, case you missed it, here's today's episode. But that's automated. I don't actually do that. What we're really doing is showing up to this space to interact with the community. And if you're gonna be on Twitter, I mean that's pretty big for Twitter. Especially if you're gonna be on Twitter, you should be interacting with the community, providing value almost in like a whole nother place. This is one of the biggest problems that podcasters have is that they think, like, oh, I'm a podcaster. That's it, motherfucker. That's the product. I'm gonna tweet about it, I'm gonna share it, You're gonna love it. I don't have to do anything else. Is I already make a fucking podcast? That's not really how it works. Any thoughts on that that are less vulgar, perhaps, well, And like this, like Fatima said, it's not a case of which one is the best one. The best one is the one where your audience is, so my audience is somewhat older. So I'm doing Facebook and Twitter. I'm not going to be doing much on TikTok, although I still think maybe I should. But I know, oh my god, please please uh, the Chinese know enough about me. But and I'm not dancing. So if that's what you're thinking, that's not it. Yeah, sorry, we'll have to figure Michelle what you got. I have a slightly different take on searchability and where people should be. I was look, I looked at the post. I have no idea what it's about. And when I'm sharing my content, I share it in the way that people would be searching for it. I think seo is a skill. I think that podcasters way underestimate how important it is to make it simple for their audience to discover them. And so if I were into your topic, I wouldn't know based on this tweet at all. And so what I would say is make it super freaking easy for us to understand what you're doing in your tweets so that we Because I get a lot of traffic referrals from Twitter to be candid, I'm very active on Twitter. I make money off of Twitter from projects people refer people to my content. So I do think that social media it can be leveraged to get people to your content. But I also have a website, I have other people who are directing people to my content. But I also really use search engine optimization. So even in a show about chaos, there should be a theme or underlying conversation for each episode. So what would I type in in order to find that episode? So, for example, I'm a huge Veronica Mars fan. No, I'm gonna use a different one. I'm a huge Star Trek fan. And if I were doing a whole season about Star Trek Strange New Worlds, I would have very specific things like an episode about Spock. Spock is hot, he is in this season anyway. My point is other people are probably typing that in, and then I would have an episode specifically about house Bok is hot, Like, don't make it hard for us to figure out what you're talking about and to find you. And I think a lot of podcasters way underestimate searchability in their show titles, in the URLs they're using. If they have a website like I do, and like you have to use SEO so that search engines can can't so that humans can type in the search and find you when you favorite person. Guys, I was thinking the same thing. And you know, we got some spicy content from Spock in these recent star treks. Yeah, Rock favorite Scissors. Spock is hot, and I don't know what you're gonna say, but we'll give it a shot. Well, I'm just looking at this post that Spud posted in to me. The way it reads is that it's reading specifically to people who already know about the show and listen to it. For me, who doesn't know the show at all. I don't know who s Bud's eighty two is. I don't know what Uncontrolled Chaos is. And then I see, you know, hot titty sweat on the on the picture, and that doesn't make me want to try it out. How the fuck is it possible that all? I mean, at least me, I looked at that, didn't even see hot titty sweat. I think I might be gay, Guys, I think something's happening. Don't tell your wife. Oh no, But I'm just saying is that, you know, if you look at Tanner's post, you look at my post, you look at Pixie's posts, We're not just posting to the people we already have, we're trying to reach out to those who haven't discovered us. So you need to get out of the mindset of promoting yourself specifically. Or you know, what is this episode about about hot titty sweat? What do you mean by hot titty sweat? And you're not you know what is the show about? And that's where I think you have Your biggest problem is that your description doesn't tell us what your show is about. Your your post doesn't tell us what your episode is about. And that's maybe why you're having trouble finding new listeners. I mean, at least use the hashtag hot titty sweat. Make a community, man. I mean, if you put that in the text hot titty sweat, you'd have much better interaction than we think too much Kevin, is everyone coming off Mike just to say that, Okay, we all hear what we all hear? What do you mean? HTS that's it? Yes, that's a new boy band out of Korea. Heather, go ahead. I just I wanted to say there's some balance there though, right. So Tanner's point like where he said like he never pushes a podcast episode out, but then by the same token, like you're talking about, you know, you want to engage with your audience and stuff like that, Like how if they aren't subscribed and you are trying to target those new people, how do they find you? Like? How do they discover? Oh? Like there's a podcast there, you know, Like I'm trying to understand when you guys are talking about those happy mediums between those Like what does that even look like for you? Yeah? If I can hop on real quick, Tama, go ahead. The best engagement I've gotten so far this month off of Twitter was posting a hashtag. It just said, hey, filmed Hey hashtag film Twitter. I'm planning my next series of episodes about directors in the eighties, who do you feel were the most influential? And I got more reactions and more responses to that question with only one hashtag than I've gotten in a very long time because I kept it simple, I kept it clean, and I didn't overload it with too much information, and I also sought engagement from the people who I were hoping will respond to me. That's how you do it. It's just you keep it simple, you keep it direct, and you practically beg for engagement. But in a respectful way to get people to talk to you. Okay, So my next follow up to that ed is how did you convert those to people going and actually listening to your podcast? You got to engage on the hashtag. How did you then translate that into actual listens and outloads on your ship? Well, I haven't yet because that's the next that's my next series. That series is not coming for a couple of months. But how I get people to listen to my show now is participating in these very spaces with Jeff, with Tanner, with Pixie, with the Fuzz, with Greg, with all these people, and just getting myself out there and being an articulate person who has strong reactions to things, but is also trying to be as helpful as possible and not be as mean as possible, being a positive person in these spaces, and being someone that people can say, Hey, that person gave good advice. Maybe I'll give their show a chance. I can tell you that my audience has gone up fairly well in the past nine to ten months since I started doing spaces and started meeting people like Jeff and Tanner and Fuzz and Pixie. So you just have to be there for the community, not just be in the community, but be there for the community. And now I can get you know, every time I practically send out a tweet, as long as is related to the show, I've got three or four people who will retweet it and like it and get the word out about it. And I can see my numbers grow when certain people are engaging with me. And I can even tell you the most downloaded episode that I had in twenty twenty one was specifically because of Jeff who a suggested the topic of a specific episode, and then when I posted the episode, he put a call of action out to his his supporters, to his followers and said, hey, you should check out this episode. So to me, that's how I've gotten my engagement. It's just by being here for this community. So there's two things here that we're glossing over, Heather and Ed. The thing that I am an incompetent hobbyist. Don't forget to get out of here. That the thing that Ed did was that he made he made the call to action, if we want to even call it that, he made it about the opinion of some of anyone who would see it. People love to talk about what they think. I mean, I do it all the fucking time. People love to talk about what they think, They love to talk about themselves, and so it doesn't surprise me that that tweet in particular said what do you think is the most influential producer or whatever it was of the you know, of the nineteen eighties or whatever it was. That's probably why that post had so much engagement, because it wasn't look at me, look at me, it was Hey, what do you think about this thing under this particular community hashtag that I know you're going to have an opinion about because you wouldn't be following this hashtag if you didn't. And the other thing, Heather, is that And I think I've said this in the last couple of spaces. So I hate to sound like a broken record, but we podcasters seem to think our podcast is the product, and we miss the fact that it is in fact we the individual the hosts, who are the product. And this is especially true if you're trying to monetize your podcast, because if you have one hundred followers on your podcast and you have six hundred followers on Twitter, and you have a thousand followers on your blog, and you have eight hundred on your I don't know your fucking TikTok, and none of that crosses over. Your scope of influence is not just one hundred followers that you have on your fucking podcast. It's all of those places. And it goes against I think what Fatima said earlier about not being on every platform, or maybe not completely against, but you need to be on more than one platform. Uh not for and really not for any other reason. Then there some people are never going to listen to podcasts. I mean in the grand scheme of podcasts, like you look at YouTube videos are a people who consume blog content. You look at people who look at fucking memes, and like, the people who are spending time on podcasts is the smallest, most irrelevant, least consume style of media on the Internet. And we're all like, that's all we're gonna do, and why are we having a hard time growing? Well, because nobody in the grand scheme of thing, nobody gives a shit about podcasts. They care more about YouTube videos, they care more about tiktoks, they care more about blog posts, they care more about ridiculous memes. And so if you want to have influence out there, in the world, in your niche, whatever it is, whatever it's about for me, it's about podcasting. Then you've got to show up in those different places to serve the people who are on those platforms. You got to do that. You're not just a podcaster. You are a multimedia powerhouse. And you have to think of yourself that way. And I mean, you got to be in more than one place, and you've got to be okay with your audience being split up across different places and having influence not just at one home base. I think the idea of a home base just isn't relevant anymore other than your own website for SEO purposes, which China Mischell will appreciate. Yeah, to summ that up to You're a brand, right, so when you're doing this, everything that you put out is your brand. It all falls out under the brand of you know, what listeners expect on your show is the you know that same voice values, you know that you know humor, if you're using humor, all that stuff needs to come through on all those channels that you do that the way that you are on your show needs through. And it's not about posting a link and saying listen to my show. It's about interacting with and engaging with the audience that you want to have in the way that you that your audience is accustomed to experiencing them. Yeah. The conversion, Heather, isn't subscribing to your podcast. The conversion is the connection to you and respecting you and wanting to have more content from you. That's the conversion you want. It doesn't matter if they become a listener. Those people we interacted with Ed on that hashtag may never listen to his podcast, but they may really respect his opinion on Twitter, and you know, six and one, a half dozen the other it's all good. Yeah. So I've made this challenge in the in this space before and I'll make it again for anybody who has a podcast and you're posting things like we saw on Twitter, audiograms, whatever it is. You know, I take take my advice and take the next month and don't post a single thing about your podcast, not one thing, not when your episodes are coming out, not whose guests you're being on, not a single thing, not even one, And instead make posts to curate your subject matter expertise, so to engage with the people who you're trying to influence, put your link, put the link to your podcast or whatever, or probably your website or your bio or something your hopefully your website in your Twitter bio. You could put a nested link to your podcast if you want. But what I'll promise you is that you will not see your downloads go down. There are not people who are using Twitter as a notification that you've put out a podcast. Twitter is shit for that. Those posts that aren't interacted with are not seen by anyone. They are not seen by anyone, so Twitter doesn't show it to people. So post subject matter expertise like the example Ed provided, interact on other people's posts, and stop talking about your podcast on social media for a short time, and what you'll see is is you'll get some listeners because you contributed like a human and a great person to follow to see. Examples of this is Greg. He's not going to say that Greg's a good example. But another really good example is Ariel This and Black, who has a podcast about podcasting herself and almost never fucking talks about it. She also works at squadcasts and almost never fucking talks about it. And she has I mean her I think she's probably at thirteen thousand or so followers now, and she hasn't been on Twitter for that long. It's because she shows up and she says funny things that people find funny have nothing to do with promoting our show. Where she comes in with stats about podcasting, have nothing to do with promoting her show, and she's held up as one of I think more people in the podcasting community think highly of Ariel than they think of me. Uh and I think she's fucking great. I think you should follow her. If you follow me, definitely follow her. I agree with you on that one. Peter, Thanks, Jeff, I appreciate that. I'm sorry interapaticquick question. Why are we supposed to be hearing a pitch from somebody tonight? Yes? He the No Call Nos show. We'll see next week. Anyways. Uh yeah, it was that hour went by super fast for me. I don't know about everybody else. It went by slow because it was an hour and twenty minutes. You're so you're so stoic. It felt like an hour and twenty minutes. All right. So we did have one person that we didn't get to. They had to drop off. It was a Forius Nightmare podcast. They just wanted to mention that seasons have been good for them because they are new. They started out unorganized and it was a fresh start each time they had a new season. They're on season three and everything about our pod is changing with massive improvements. Love to be able to shut out yourself picksy, Greg and Tanner. Since they have been the ones who have dropped good tidbits of advice, it has been positive for us. So that's another example of how that some of the things we've talked about this evening have helped a new podcaster. Good sweaty tidbits, good sweaty tip. That's my I will leave that as my closing thoughts to be good to you, Greg, hot titties come on, Ed. I thank you everybody for coming to the space. I thought it was really fun, you know, especially if this is your first time here. We do this every week and you never know who might show up, and sometimes you might hope that people don't show up but end up showing up. So you know, sorry for that, and you can I wasn't talking about to you, Dave, about Tanner clearly for sure, just kidding, just kidding, g Yeah, just available on podcast form too. I was yeah, I was getting there. So, uh, the website is podcasting power hour dot com. Uh, we're still waiting on a couple of logos, but I went ahead and published it in its non finished form for today because we're all podcasters and we know how it goes. Uh, but this is available via podcast and I even put some of our uh extracurricular conversations that don't make it in the hour on the end in the beginning. Obviously I cut out anything sensitive, but uh, if you don't, if you drop early or you came in late, podcasting power hour dot com or any podcast app. So a great way to check out all the previous episodes. For sure, Thank you great mayor MCOs thoughts on this season. No, I thought this was a great conversation. And to be honest, I'm coming up on my fifty second weekly episode of my hyper local show and I've been dreading whether to take a break or not because I'm a little bit burnt out. But I was just interviewed on a on a local show and I was about to take a break. Got interviewed on a local show and I'm like, oh shit, I can't take a break now because people are expecting contents and I don't want to squander the the pr so, but this has been very helpful because I think I'm going to either plan out a way to at least take a two or four week break and then come back. But it's been very helpful as always, Jeff, Greg, even you Tanner. Uh, it's been It's fun. And Jim, I still owe you some stuff and I've got like three pages of things for you and I will get those to you soon. So but thanks for having me on guys. I appreciate it, no problem. Fuzz Jim, speaking of which you've been very quiet. See well, I've been respectful and fuzz whenever you get around to it. I know you're busy, so I don't I respect that, but I will thank you. By we haven't talked about the same I see a lot of people listening, and I know we're always short on time because's point an hour. But if you have a question, I know Jeff's good about answering them. You want fucking your inbox, you'd message Tanner and even Greg would be good to ask the question, or me or anybody around here. We all love answering questions. You don't have to wait till the Monday night. Chum, that's from any time be a direct message. Well said Jim Pixie. I'm going to give you a second to talk about your space on Wednesday. It's a little bit more laid back than this one, I would say it is. It's every Wednesday at twelve pm Mountain Standard time, which we call Pixie Time. But I want to highlight somebody who is starting up women's spaces in podcasting for those you ladies who want something even more laid back. Poppy, who is down there in the listenership. She has opened up her own spaces, and I think there should be more spaces for podcasters. Thanks Jeff lovely, excellent use of your time speaking of somebody that won't use excellent use of their time, Tanner, go ahead listen. I I'm the host of Good Morning Podcasters and I was really lucky enough to have Dan Hughley from Focus Right send me a model, a working model of their new Vocaster audio interface device. It allows you to plug your phone in so you can take phone calls or plug a professional microphone into, for example, your next Twitter space. It's pretty cool and I interview Dan on tomorrow's episode. So if you want to tune in and listen to that. He gives us like a twenty minute rundown of the product. It is really cool. He did not sponsor the episode. There are no affiliate links, but if you do hear the episode and decide you want to purchase one of these, email me after you make the purchase, because he's promised to give special focus right swag bags to anybody who buys the product through the link that I've made for myself to send people over there. There's no there's nothing in it for me, there's something in it for you. So hope you'll listen, and I hope it'll help Tanner. I'm surprised you actually are able to interview people, giving them time to talk since you enjoy doing it so much. Thanks Jeff, I appreciate that. Hey, before we go to Dave, I just want to point out that Tanner, Jeff, Fuzz and I and crew are all very cordial, kind of the scenes. We're just giving it to Tanner pretty thick today, So don't think it's all enough. God, Yeah, these guys are always giving it to me thick. Thanks for that, Greg, that that that one followed me around the internet. Forever. It's important to mention that because I have had people, several people ask, hey, do you hate that Tanner guy? And you go only see no, Look, listen everybody. We are We're all white dudes of a certain age, and the way we show that we love each other is that we talk shit. That's what we do. It's Monday night. We got to have the heal on the rest one Tanner, despite despite the ship that I give you, I I you are the only show that I listened to every single day, and I also Dave. I also listen sometimes in the shower. So it's kind of feeling gross and a little weird now, but uh, here we are for two dudes washing their nether regions talking to listening to Tanner. I think some weird. I think you're giving both of them much credit. I don't know if they watched not daily, that's all. I watched Kens over and over and over. That's me. I have a very selective shower. We're all one big, happy family. Do you want to mention Michelle thank you for joining us. It was nice meeting you and you had some great input on this particular episode or evening, So thank you, Michelle, ain't never come back. Yeah, all right, let's end it. Final thoughts with the Hall of Famer David Jackson. I wish I had something like really cool to like just drop the mic, but it was as always, it's always fun to hang out with you guys. And if you want to take a break, take a break. If you don't, don't, it's it's really I don't know. I don't think the world's going to end if you take a break. So it's your show. Do what you want. I think that's really that would be my final thought. Here's what you do as you go. That's it. I'm gonna take a break on whatever date and then see what it feels like, because that way you have time to change your mind before you actually take your break. So it's my final Dave, talk about your live talk about your live space. My life space is ask the podcast Coach every Saturday morning at ten thirty Eastern, where much like this, you can come in and ask questions and very very similar to this, people in the chat room all bust on each other and it's it's a lot of fun. And because you got questions, we will try to answer them in some sort of you know, organized fashion, so ask thepodcast coach dot com. There you go. If you want to see a bunch of dudes bust on each other, you can go. Check you out, Tanner, come on, don't point them out. He also ignores my questions in your live show. I don't no good ones. Jeff, seriously, thanks for joining us, and thanks everybody. Hopefully you come back next week for more Podcasting Power Hour Mondays at nine pm Eastern Thank you for listening to the Podcasting Power Hour. Everyone is free to participate on Twitter spaces every Monday at nine pm Eastern time. To join, just follow Jeff at podcast underscore Father or Greg at Indie Droppin'. If you found this podcast helpful, go into your podcast app and write a quick review. Other podcasters will see it and know this show is worth listening to. Also, I'll put a few links in the show notes for ways you can support the show. I think by now you know we love our coffee. Have a great week. The ending was the best part, Tanner, don't say it. Thank you he's gone already. Oh oh man, that was a lot of fun. It was a good hour. Greg, I enjoyed. I enjoyed your insights on Tanner's show about the whole you know, Apple and Google and all that fun filled all the additional stats. Oh yeah, yeah, it was nice to get a little uh like we talked about that today from Fatima. So it was nice to get some validation from a super expert. So all right, gentlemen and ladies, I'll see you all right, Dave, Jim, what were you saying? Your your mic sounds like it's underwater or you're calling us from the bathroom or something. What's happening? What was she mentioned? The secondary site she was she hadasters It's called co host co host podcasting dot com. And it looks like it looks like it looks like hosting that has that focuses on audience analytics and trending and and things like that, just based on what I've seen. But I'm gonna look at a little closer yep today report back to Jim. Yeah, I will. Thanks for that. Jim, please please wait patiently by your inbox. Yeah, I was gonna say that way. You know your research is valuable somebody. Well, thanks everybody. I'm gonna go ahead and jump off here. I've got to get to the airport at four a m. To go to Texas for work. Oh you're gonna catch on fire. I I am. I'm debating if I should even go to sleep or not at this point. So we'll see what city you're going to, going to Austin or it's a city right outside of long View? Oh okay, Oh yeah, no, I was just gonna I'm just gonna tell you some fun places to go to lunch if you were going somewhere fun, but you're not, so nope, just work, damn work all right, See everybody later, See you next Monday. Thank you for checking out this episode of Anie Podcaster. I really do appreciate it. If you're interested in learning more about this podcast, you can go to podcastfather dot com. If you're interested in all the different kind of work that I'm doing, you can go to Jeff Townsend dot media contact form on there various other different podcasts and projects that I'm involved in that I think you will enjoy. But again, thank you for supporting me, and make sure you support Adie Dropping Network like we cover to the beginning, get your podcast featured on there. Until I see you next time, take care of yourself and keep being you and keep being great. Jeff Townsend media saves you good night, and the question is do I stay here? Will you be bye? Are you going to come back? Will you be back? Are you coming back?
