Stop Procrastinating your Podcast with Vikkie Louise Host of Hack Your Time

[00:00:00] Do you get anxiety about hearing your own voice on your podcast?

[00:00:04] Do you struggle with the constant weight of consistency of getting episodes out on time every time?

[00:00:11] Do you procrastinate the creation of your show, but love the end result?

[00:00:17] This is Podcast Creators where we get podcasting advice from real podcasters.

[00:00:23] On the show today we have Vicki Louise, host of Hack Your Time,

[00:00:27] and she's going to answer all those questions and so much more.

[00:00:31] This is a really great interview, I think you're going to love it.

[00:00:34] I'm your host Greg, creator of Indie Drop-In Network and co-host of Fan Dummy's.

[00:00:39] This interview was recorded using Riverside FM, so if you like the way this looks and sounds,

[00:00:44] we'll put an affiliate link in the show notes below for you to check out.

[00:00:48] Everything we talk about on today's episodes will be down in the show notes,

[00:00:52] so in case you hear something that's interesting to you, you can easily click the link to find it.

[00:00:56] Let's get to it.

[00:01:19] Hi Vicki, welcome to the show. How are you?

[00:01:21] I'm good, so happy to be here. How are you?

[00:01:24] Oh, I'm really good. I'm super excited.

[00:01:27] I love doing these interviews in my morning because I feel like I have all my brain cells.

[00:01:32] That's always a good idea when recording podcasts.

[00:01:35] Yeah, yeah. I feel like I can be a little bit more witty and after listening to your podcast,

[00:01:40] I think I need to be, right?

[00:01:45] Because you're always on, and I just find that so fascinating.

[00:01:51] So maybe we should start with some easy things.

[00:01:55] Why don't you introduce yourself and tell us about your show?

[00:01:58] Yeah, so I'm Vicki. I go by Vicki-Louise.

[00:02:01] I am currently calling in from south of France, which is quite fun.

[00:02:06] And my podcast is called Hack Your Time, but we're going to speak about...

[00:02:12] I just rebranded like two weeks ago, so my podcast is about two and a half years old.

[00:02:18] And I really started it because I used to have a lot of anxiety and panic attacks.

[00:02:26] And I didn't actually know what they were, which was kind of a benefit for a few weeks

[00:02:33] until I spoke to a friend who was like, this is clearly what they are.

[00:02:36] Because it meant for that first few weeks, I wasn't caught up in the propaganda

[00:02:41] and everything of like, you have a disorder and there's something wrong with you

[00:02:45] and all of this stuff, it meant that I just got on with it even when it was shit.

[00:02:52] And so I didn't immediately make it mean that there was something wrong with me.

[00:02:56] And then as I looked into, and we can speak about this,

[00:02:59] as I looked into anxiety in our brain and how we evolved, I was like,

[00:03:03] this is not fun, but this is normal.

[00:03:06] I'm not broken.

[00:03:08] And there was no one really speaking about that or to that.

[00:03:12] And I really wanted to help people be like, hey, you can have anxiety and still get shit done

[00:03:19] and still be valuable and all of those things.

[00:03:22] Like it doesn't have to be something that makes us feel worse about ourselves.

[00:03:26] So that was why I started it.

[00:03:28] Yeah. And it really resonates with me because I fight that exact battle.

[00:03:32] You know, every time you hit record on a podcast, there's that moment, right?

[00:03:36] Before you hit record where you think, what am I doing?

[00:03:40] Who does this?

[00:03:41] Like, this is crazy.

[00:03:43] And then you have to kind of power through it.

[00:03:46] So you started in March of 2019.

[00:03:49] Is that right?

[00:03:50] Yeah.

[00:03:51] Yeah.

[00:03:52] And it looks like you have 144 episodes.

[00:03:56] Yeah, something like that.

[00:03:58] I did do one, I think where every week I did an episode.

[00:04:01] That's why I have a bit extra.

[00:04:03] Yeah.

[00:04:04] That's pretty amazing.

[00:04:06] Where is the show at today?

[00:04:08] Like, I found you in the top charts of Apple, full disclosure.

[00:04:13] So...

[00:04:15] Yeah.

[00:04:16] So where the show is at today?

[00:04:18] What in terms of downloads and stuff or content?

[00:04:20] Yeah, just anything you want to share about that.

[00:04:22] Yeah.

[00:04:23] So the show has evolved.

[00:04:25] That's like a long relationship, right?

[00:04:27] Yeah, exactly.

[00:04:28] Like, I feel like I've spent a long time with my audience,

[00:04:31] especially ones from the beginning and the people that catch me now

[00:04:34] see like a much more refined...

[00:04:37] Even though I still totally don't edit and I'm completely myself.

[00:04:41] Oh, we're talking about that.

[00:04:43] Yeah, we're talking about that.

[00:04:45] I think what you'll find now with my...

[00:04:47] Where my podcast is now is it's super clear and clean

[00:04:50] with like exactly what my purpose is in the world

[00:04:53] and that purpose has kind of evolved.

[00:04:55] So it started with really wanting to help people with anxiety,

[00:04:58] but now it really is like how we use our time

[00:05:01] and how we don't get...

[00:05:02] So part of that is how we don't get sidetracked

[00:05:05] by trying to solve our anxiety.

[00:05:07] And we really...

[00:05:08] I just think we're never taught how to use our time.

[00:05:11] And yeah, so we're at 400,000 downloads now,

[00:05:16] which is pretty cool.

[00:05:18] Yeah, I mean, that's amazing.

[00:05:21] When you release an episode,

[00:05:23] how many downloads does it get right away?

[00:05:25] Like the very next day?

[00:05:27] Do you know that?

[00:05:28] Well, I know just from this week.

[00:05:31] So the podcast comes out on Monday.

[00:05:34] I think the first week is normally 1.6,000 an episode.

[00:05:39] Yeah.

[00:05:40] I mean, that's crazy.

[00:05:42] You're way up there in the upper echelon

[00:05:44] of what podcasters get, which I think is really cool.

[00:05:49] Yeah.

[00:05:50] And I think it's like...

[00:05:51] We spoke about this briefly before we recorded.

[00:05:53] Maybe I'm jumping things.

[00:05:55] But when I first started and my numbers

[00:05:58] were nowhere near that,

[00:06:01] what I would do is I would visualize

[00:06:03] speaking to an audience.

[00:06:05] So even when it was like 17 people,

[00:06:07] and it's still easy to be disheartened,

[00:06:09] like, oh, only 17 people.

[00:06:11] Like what?

[00:06:12] We live in a world where you can produce content

[00:06:14] that can reach 17 people that you will never meet

[00:06:17] that are on different continents

[00:06:18] and impact their lives.

[00:06:21] That's amazing.

[00:06:22] So when I think about 1,600,

[00:06:26] there's almost like...

[00:06:27] I can't really comprehend it.

[00:06:29] Yeah.

[00:06:30] So let's roll the film back to 2019

[00:06:32] and kind of talk about that initial,

[00:06:34] because do you think you're remembering it differently

[00:06:38] or in the moment when you looked at those downloads,

[00:06:41] did you have the perspective that you have now?

[00:06:44] I definitely didn't have the perspective that I had now.

[00:06:47] So I'll even tell you, my first episode,

[00:06:49] I recorded three times

[00:06:51] because I was being a bit perfectionist

[00:06:53] and like, oh, I could do this better.

[00:06:55] And I remember the third time

[00:06:57] and I was like editing it.

[00:06:58] Maybe you guys can even tell,

[00:07:00] like, I was trying to cut gaps

[00:07:02] or like when I would say, um-hmm.

[00:07:04] And, you know, my first episode took me so long.

[00:07:07] I remember the third time I was like,

[00:07:09] if I don't publish this as it is now,

[00:07:12] I'm going to create a habit

[00:07:14] that is going to cost me so much time

[00:07:16] that this is not going to be sustainable.

[00:07:18] And I think the reason why I've been so consistent

[00:07:21] with my podcast is because I get in and out

[00:07:24] in 30 minutes every week.

[00:07:26] That's what it like, you know, maximum

[00:07:28] unless I'm interviewing a client,

[00:07:30] which is longer.

[00:07:32] But it's like, I really don't create a fuss

[00:07:35] or a song and dance about it.

[00:07:37] But at that first point, probably like everyone

[00:07:39] at the beginning, I was like, this needs to be perfect.

[00:07:42] This needs to sound perfect.

[00:07:44] I went a bit screechy here, like just super hypercritical.

[00:07:47] So I remember that moment.

[00:07:49] I remember exactly where I sat.

[00:07:51] And then I remember looking and seeing 17 seconds

[00:07:53] and seeing 17 downloads.

[00:07:55] And part of me was like, that's kind of cool.

[00:07:57] Like who are these 17 people?

[00:07:59] And another part of me was like,

[00:08:01] how do you actually get more people to listen?

[00:08:05] Like what?

[00:08:07] I just had no, I was really,

[00:08:09] it hit me like, oh, I'm doing this thing

[00:08:12] and I've got no idea how to reach people.

[00:08:15] So did you make any sort of plan

[00:08:17] or did you just decide

[00:08:19] I need a podcast

[00:08:21] and I'm just going to go for it?

[00:08:23] What was the steps?

[00:08:25] To create and get, it was really like,

[00:08:28] so I had my experience with my anxiety.

[00:08:31] I'd certified as a coach

[00:08:33] and then I got wrapped up in this startup

[00:08:35] and I was like, I really want people to have this message

[00:08:38] while I don't have the capacity to take on clients.

[00:08:41] So there wasn't much thought about it.

[00:08:43] I think I did write down

[00:08:45] like my first five episodes

[00:08:47] knowing like what I wanted them to be on

[00:08:49] and I even have three just on procrastinating

[00:08:51] because I was like, this is like such a big thing

[00:08:53] that if someone only listens to the first five episodes

[00:08:57] I want them to get such good value from it.

[00:09:00] And then it started to venture into like the unknown

[00:09:04] and I even used to bring on interviews every 10th episode

[00:09:09] and then I saw that not only was that more work for me

[00:09:12] with editing and longer

[00:09:14] but the downloads weren't as much

[00:09:16] and like people weren't downloading them as much

[00:09:19] because they were longer episodes,

[00:09:20] you know, minor normally 10, 15 minutes

[00:09:22] so it attracts someone that wants 10, 15 minute episodes.

[00:09:26] So I stopped doing that.

[00:09:28] So that's another thing for everyone to know

[00:09:30] is like be willing to test something

[00:09:32] and review it and change it.

[00:09:35] Like nothing is set in stone

[00:09:37] including even the name which we'll speak about soon

[00:09:39] but I think having that flexibility with myself

[00:09:42] to create what I wanted and be willing to test

[00:09:46] meant that I was always gonna like have more fun

[00:09:49] and do it instead of if you feel like I have to do it this way

[00:09:54] because this is how I've always done it.

[00:09:56] You are immediately taking away

[00:09:58] probably a big reason why you did it

[00:10:00] like this is your opportunity to be creative.

[00:10:03] I think there's this myth with podcasters

[00:10:06] that when they see creators in the top 100

[00:10:09] which, you know, there's not many

[00:10:11] they think, oh, she must be a celebrity.

[00:10:14] She's got 1.5 million followers on Instagram.

[00:10:18] You know, she owns a Fortune 500 company.

[00:10:21] There's some other motivation here

[00:10:24] that's bringing followers

[00:10:25] but I don't, that's not the case for you is it?

[00:10:29] Like you built this from zero.

[00:10:32] Yeah, that's really not the case to me.

[00:10:34] If anything my podcast actually fueled

[00:10:38] my business in terms of like grew my email list

[00:10:41] which is still at less than 2,000 people

[00:10:44] and fueled my Instagram

[00:10:47] which is only now at 3,500.

[00:10:50] So yeah, my podcast

[00:10:53] and I'll even tell you what it was.

[00:10:55] I think what I think it was is

[00:10:57] what I really cared about when I created this podcast

[00:11:00] was creating something valuable

[00:11:02] like I wasn't trying to create followers

[00:11:04] I wasn't trying to create exposure

[00:11:06] I was literally like, I want to leave 10 minutes

[00:11:09] 15 minutes with like addressing something very real

[00:11:12] that I don't think is spoken about enough

[00:11:14] or spoken about in this way

[00:11:15] and I want to always leave someone

[00:11:17] with something actionable to do

[00:11:18] which I know you do too

[00:11:20] and I think that format makes it so easy

[00:11:23] to consume, to share

[00:11:26] and I always ask my audience as well to share it

[00:11:28] I will be like if this episode was helpful

[00:11:30] share it with one person you love

[00:11:33] which is such an easy ask versus like

[00:11:35] if this episode is helpful then

[00:11:37] go to my homepage and sign into this guide

[00:11:40] and then share it on your Twitter

[00:11:42] and then it's like how can you make it super simple

[00:11:45] especially at the beginning.

[00:11:46] Right, so when you created the podcast

[00:11:48] did you have it in your mind

[00:11:50] that you were going to create something

[00:11:51] to fuel your coaching business at all

[00:11:54] like was that any motivation

[00:11:56] or was it truly that you just wanted to get the message out?

[00:12:00] I think I thought at some point

[00:12:02] this is going to fuel my coaching business

[00:12:03] but I wasn't working on my coaching business

[00:12:05] and didn't for like a year or however long afterwards

[00:12:10] because I was so wrapped up in the start-up

[00:12:12] so it really was like

[00:12:14] I was just so frustrated with like

[00:12:17] what I was finding out

[00:12:19] when I was looking at like our evolution

[00:12:21] and biology

[00:12:22] and what I was seeing in the mainstream

[00:12:24] and even people coming up to me

[00:12:26] being like, you know

[00:12:27] just being in those conversations

[00:12:28] without people knowing my own experience

[00:12:30] and being like

[00:12:32] the way it's spoken about in society

[00:12:34] I was like, I just want to put something out there

[00:12:36] that's like offering a different perspective

[00:12:39] so that was my main motivation

[00:12:41] but then when

[00:12:43] I probably at some point knew

[00:12:44] I would come back to coaching as well

[00:12:46] and wasn't against that, yeah.

[00:12:48] Yeah, because one of the things that I like to do

[00:12:50] is I go back to the beginning

[00:12:52] I listened to some of the original episodes

[00:12:54] and you didn't really mention anything about coaching

[00:12:57] and then, you know, even in the new episodes

[00:13:00] there's not any ads

[00:13:02] it's like at the very end

[00:13:04] you say, oh hey I have this coaching thing

[00:13:06] you can check it out

[00:13:07] go to my website, you know, join my newsletter

[00:13:09] those types of things

[00:13:11] why don't you monetize the actual podcast

[00:13:14] instead of, I mean

[00:13:16] in addition to the coaching business

[00:13:18] like is there any strategy there?

[00:13:20] Yeah, it really is just like

[00:13:22] I just want it to be

[00:13:24] super simple and clean for my listeners

[00:13:26] and I think

[00:13:28] like again it's different for different people

[00:13:30] but I do think

[00:13:32] now it is a funnel to my business

[00:13:34] and so why would I

[00:13:36] why would I make it more confusing

[00:13:38] with like three different funnels?

[00:13:42] Listen, I'm going to be honest

[00:13:44] I don't know what I could get paid for ads

[00:13:46] so I think I'm like blissfully unaware maybe

[00:13:48] but I also

[00:13:50] I feel good

[00:13:52] with where

[00:13:54] with how it's serving the world

[00:13:56] and generating

[00:13:58] clients and

[00:14:00] it just feels like

[00:14:02] this is what I want to do to be honest

[00:14:04] I'm not tempted, I have been approached

[00:14:06] and I've never really

[00:14:08] given a second. Yeah, I think

[00:14:10] there's a big opportunity there for ads

[00:14:12] but if it affects

[00:14:14] the coaching business, I'm sure that

[00:14:16] you know that ROI is probably

[00:14:18] much more significant than

[00:14:20] a one-time ad to sell a mattress or two

[00:14:22] Yeah, and also it's like

[00:14:24] what's my end goal really?

[00:14:26] Right.

[00:14:28] And it really is

[00:14:30] to change people's lives

[00:14:32] and I just want them

[00:14:34] to be thinking about that

[00:14:36] and them to be thinking about themselves

[00:14:38] while they're listening as well

[00:14:40] instead of like some of the things that I speak about

[00:14:42] I will call people out on their bullshit

[00:14:44] on my podcast

[00:14:46] and at that point

[00:14:48] it can sometimes be like

[00:14:50] and then you get this invitation to leave the podcast

[00:14:52] and go do something else

[00:14:54] it's like actually I'm just going to

[00:14:56] go do that versus

[00:14:58] stay on for that last five minutes and get the solution

[00:15:00] because this feels like a bit uncomfortable

[00:15:02] right now so I also think that is in line

[00:15:04] During the journey

[00:15:06] were there any points where

[00:15:08] you saw like

[00:15:10] something happened in the world or

[00:15:12] you got put on someone's list

[00:15:14] or you got the New York Times

[00:15:16] mentioning whatever, did something happen

[00:15:18] to kind of propel you along the way

[00:15:20] at all?

[00:15:22] I would love to be on the New York Times list

[00:15:24] The truth is I don't even know all the media I've gotten

[00:15:26] but I have made the effort

[00:15:28] to try and get on to media

[00:15:30] and I'll tell you another big thing that I did

[00:15:32] that I think helped is

[00:15:34] I started doing podcast interviews

[00:15:36] like it sounds so simple

[00:15:38] but podcast listeners love

[00:15:40] listening to podcasts like if you want

[00:15:42] your podcast to be listened to by more people

[00:15:44] it might be great to be on

[00:15:46] like in a hard paper magazine

[00:15:48] but maybe the people that read the hard

[00:15:50] paper magazine don't read the podcast

[00:15:52] so I think it's such a simple

[00:15:54] such a simple thing to do as well

[00:15:56] is like collaborate with other podcasters

[00:16:00] Yeah, I think that's super helpful because

[00:16:02] if you can

[00:16:04] quote unquote advertise

[00:16:06] to the people who consume the media

[00:16:08] right you have a much better chance

[00:16:10] to convert them

[00:16:12] just the way it always works

[00:16:14] and what's interesting now is I've realized I've been on

[00:16:16] like 150 podcasts speaking

[00:16:18] about my podcast under a different brand

[00:16:22] Well, this can be your first one

[00:16:24] Yeah

[00:16:26] So that's a perfect segue

[00:16:28] Okay

[00:16:30] Full disclosure

[00:16:32] when I was looking through the Top 100 list

[00:16:34] and I saw your original

[00:16:36] title

[00:16:38] what's a fuck anxiety

[00:16:40] just get shit done is that what it was

[00:16:42] I thought this podcast is for me

[00:16:44] Honestly, I saw the name

[00:16:46] and I went oh man that's so good

[00:16:48] but the podcaster in my mind

[00:16:50] said

[00:16:52] you know is this the right name

[00:16:54] for a big show

[00:16:56] Yeah

[00:16:58] like it's fun to choose this

[00:17:00] when you have 17 listeners

[00:17:02] but now you have hundreds

[00:17:04] and hundreds of thousands

[00:17:06] and in two years it could be

[00:17:08] millions and millions

[00:17:10] Right

[00:17:12] What was the motivation first to pick the name

[00:17:14] and then to change the name

[00:17:16] I got to hear it all

[00:17:18] So to pick the name is actually a really

[00:17:20] fun one because it was like two client quotes

[00:17:22] and one of them was like

[00:17:24] you just helped me get shit done

[00:17:26] and the other one said something like fuck anxiety

[00:17:28] and I was like oh I'm going to put those together

[00:17:30] that's like exactly how I feel

[00:17:32] It's like

[00:17:34] it just really summed up everything that I wanted

[00:17:36] to teach which is like fuck

[00:17:38] what you've been told about anxiety

[00:17:40] fuck what you are making your anxiety mean

[00:17:42] around you like I'm going to show you

[00:17:44] how to keep moving forward

[00:17:46] with anxiety

[00:17:48] so it was really just like

[00:17:50] and I loved that it was cheeky and it swore

[00:17:52] and it was like unclean

[00:17:54] and it wasn't trying to be super professional

[00:17:56] and I come from like a corporate background

[00:17:58] where like I really

[00:18:00] was always on my best behavior

[00:18:02] and I was like I don't need to do that anymore

[00:18:04] like screw that

[00:18:06] so you know

[00:18:08] the tone is correct

[00:18:10] okay so

[00:18:12] fast forward two and a half years

[00:18:14] your podcast is working

[00:18:16] I mean I assume

[00:18:18] the people are coming in for coaching

[00:18:20] regularly

[00:18:22] everything's firing on all cylinders

[00:18:24] and you say you know what

[00:18:26] I'm going to break this

[00:18:28] and see if I can improve it

[00:18:30] is that what happened

[00:18:32] actually what happened was

[00:18:34] really on anxiety and procrastination

[00:18:36] and then

[00:18:38] last year

[00:18:40] my coaching business like

[00:18:42] it blew up in a really good way

[00:18:44] and same with the podcast

[00:18:46] we could say the same thing like

[00:18:48] everything that I was achieving

[00:18:50] I was doing it in a much faster time

[00:18:52] than I thought

[00:18:54] and I was like huh things don't take time

[00:18:56] like my whole life I thought things

[00:18:58] I didn't leave my corporate job for years because I thought it was going to take time

[00:19:00] to replace that salary

[00:19:02] like lots of things that we do or don't do

[00:19:04] because we think like oh it's just going to take time

[00:19:06] and I was like I don't think things take time

[00:19:08] and so I decided

[00:19:10] it was the end of last year

[00:19:12] where I actually launched

[00:19:14] my first group mastermind program

[00:19:16] and I was like it's going to be about

[00:19:18] time and how we use time

[00:19:20] and how we like optimize our time

[00:19:22] and I came up with the name Time Huckers

[00:19:24] and really what happened then

[00:19:26] was like I sat in to like

[00:19:28] my purpose on this world

[00:19:30] and I really feel like

[00:19:32] this is my calling

[00:19:34] I know it sounds like a bit cheesy almost

[00:19:36] but

[00:19:38] I really think everything we're taught about

[00:19:40] time is outdated, old

[00:19:42] built from like before

[00:19:44] long before podcasting and so many careers

[00:19:46] and jobs existed and it's ready

[00:19:48] for a shake up and the 40 hour work week

[00:19:50] and 5 hour 2 days

[00:19:52] like 5 days 2 days

[00:19:54] and all of these timelines

[00:19:56] that we've been told you know it takes 6 months

[00:19:58] to plan a wedding or you should date someone

[00:20:00] for 2 years before moving together

[00:20:02] like everywhere around us

[00:20:04] we are being given timelines

[00:20:06] that are fucking made up

[00:20:08] and the program

[00:20:10] is create a container

[00:20:12] for like how we actually stop focusing

[00:20:14] on the timeline and start focusing

[00:20:16] on what it takes to move results

[00:20:18] and we get there much faster

[00:20:20] so I did that so it's been

[00:20:22] almost a year now

[00:20:24] and I just realized my content was moving

[00:20:26] further away from anxiety

[00:20:28] and procrastination and really into

[00:20:30] the elements of time hacking how I've

[00:20:32] defined them

[00:20:34] and I was like there's a disconnect now

[00:20:36] and I was still getting a lot of emails from people

[00:20:38] like your podcast has changed my life

[00:20:40] with my anxiety and my clients still have anxiety

[00:20:42] but there's a spectrum

[00:20:44] and I think really now

[00:20:46] it's like the high over achiever

[00:20:48] anxiety

[00:20:50] so it just felt like

[00:20:52] this was right

[00:20:54] for the whole business

[00:20:56] so I wasn't just thinking about the podcast

[00:20:58] it was really about committing to

[00:21:00] this is my purpose in the world

[00:21:02] I think time hacking is

[00:21:04] going to change people's lives

[00:21:06] and it's what I'm here to do

[00:21:08] so that's what drove the podcast rebrand

[00:21:10] yeah I mean I see all sorts of

[00:21:12] conversations where people are saying

[00:21:16] the tagline is the future

[00:21:18] of work and I think that really plays

[00:21:20] into this strategy

[00:21:22] where even

[00:21:24] giant corporations are starting to

[00:21:26] figure out hey maybe

[00:21:28] 8-5 isn't really the best

[00:21:30] productivity schedule

[00:21:32] and if we

[00:21:34] hand down tasks

[00:21:36] and just say here's the

[00:21:38] deadline for the tasks go forth

[00:21:40] and sell things, make money

[00:21:42] build things whatever your job is

[00:21:44] it seems

[00:21:46] at least on the surface to be much more

[00:21:48] effective

[00:21:50] we have to remember

[00:21:52] that what we've done with time

[00:21:54] I think is similar to what they've done to the

[00:21:56] diet industry, mass market it

[00:21:58] mess it up and then sell

[00:22:00] solutions that are

[00:22:02] very constraining and limiting

[00:22:04] whereas what time hacking is

[00:22:06] is getting rid of all those rules

[00:22:08] and opening it up

[00:22:10] like I had a client on the podcast today

[00:22:12] she was saying to her it's like

[00:22:14] bending time

[00:22:16] versus I have to do this

[00:22:18] for three hours or even

[00:22:20] the rules like eat the frog

[00:22:22] do the hardest thing in the day

[00:22:24] maybe you don't want to do that every day

[00:22:26] even for women we have a cycle

[00:22:28] maybe men do too I don't know

[00:22:30] but we have a cycle and where we are in that cycle

[00:22:32] it literally impacts our productivity

[00:22:34] that's never been thought of

[00:22:36] your energy

[00:22:38] on a Monday morning

[00:22:40] when you have just spent the weekend

[00:22:42] with friends

[00:22:44] might be very different to your energy

[00:22:46] on a Thursday afternoon

[00:22:48] when you've been dealing with your neighbors

[00:22:50] dog

[00:22:52] barking all night who knows

[00:22:54] we're trying to shove our circle

[00:22:56] cells into square shaped

[00:22:58] holes and actually

[00:23:00] our productivity as a society

[00:23:02] hasn't increased since the 1970s

[00:23:04] so given all the advances

[00:23:06] in technology it tells us something

[00:23:08] isn't working

[00:23:10] that resonates with me so much because

[00:23:12] I had a friend a long time ago who I

[00:23:14] was super super productive

[00:23:16] in my brain from the outside

[00:23:18] it seemed like everything was put together

[00:23:20] like you know he

[00:23:22] achieved always overachieved

[00:23:24] and I asked

[00:23:26] what his secret was and he said he takes a nap

[00:23:28] in the middle of the day

[00:23:30] yes I love nothing in the middle of the day

[00:23:32] and I was like really he goes yeah

[00:23:34] because what I found is that after

[00:23:36] lunch I'm just not productive

[00:23:38] so I just

[00:23:40] found a way where if I take an hour

[00:23:42] to myself and then I come back

[00:23:44] then I can put together

[00:23:46] two or three super productive hours

[00:23:48] and I don't feel bad about it

[00:23:50] and I thought well

[00:23:52] I mean that's really simple

[00:23:54] yeah that's way too simple

[00:23:56] I don't need to download seven apps for that

[00:23:58] yeah like there's no like

[00:24:00] I mean is there like a supplement I can take

[00:24:02] for this

[00:24:04] but

[00:24:06] let's as we transition to like some

[00:24:08] really

[00:24:10] appointed device or as we transition to

[00:24:12] some

[00:24:14] advice directly for indie creators maybe

[00:24:16] maybe we can start

[00:24:18] with kind of a lesson I learned by looking

[00:24:20] at your YouTube which you have a few videos

[00:24:22] up there which I thought were absolutely

[00:24:24] hilarious and in one of them you said

[00:24:26] that you spent $10,000

[00:24:28] on some Facebook ads that did

[00:24:30] absolutely zero

[00:24:32] yeah have you done

[00:24:34] experiments like that with

[00:24:36] your podcast at all

[00:24:38] and what's has anything worked or not

[00:24:40] worked or so the Facebook ads

[00:24:42] yeah they were for my coaching business

[00:24:44] and again it was around

[00:24:46] actually I'll tell you why it was worth the $10,000

[00:24:48] because they are the people that told

[00:24:50] me to start a podcast oh wow

[00:24:52] so that was like a

[00:24:54] good lesson

[00:24:56] afterwards to be like I'm not gonna

[00:24:58] hold a grudge about that because actually

[00:25:00] that was it was totally worth

[00:25:02] it if I look overall

[00:25:04] but really again what

[00:25:06] was happening there was I was getting busier

[00:25:08] and I had this start-up opportunity and I was

[00:25:10] like I don't have time to produce all this

[00:25:12] stuff let's use Facebook ads and let's

[00:25:14] use an expert to do it for me but

[00:25:16] really what I was doing was

[00:25:18] outsourcing responsibility

[00:25:20] when I hadn't even learned how to

[00:25:22] sell

[00:25:24] the packages so

[00:25:26] I just recently started

[00:25:28] with a Facebook ads person again now

[00:25:30] for my coaching

[00:25:32] business and it's like a completely

[00:25:34] different ball game because I'm like

[00:25:36] this is how it should be working

[00:25:38] it's just my knowledge and experience is higher

[00:25:40] so that's really important for everyone listening

[00:25:42] to think about is like

[00:25:44] it's easy to throw money at something

[00:25:46] and someone tell you they're an expert

[00:25:48] and

[00:25:50] I don't even know why I carried on I worked

[00:25:52] with them for five months after three months

[00:25:54] it should have been like no results

[00:25:56] but one of the things I speak about

[00:25:58] on the podcast is taking radical self-responsibility

[00:26:00] and sometimes I do that too much

[00:26:02] you know like oh it's my fault

[00:26:04] that ads aren't working it's like no no

[00:26:06] someone's telling you something maybe it's

[00:26:08] their fault

[00:26:10] yeah I think that that's a good lesson

[00:26:12] because I had a similar experience

[00:26:14] which is why it resonated when I first

[00:26:16] started podcasting

[00:26:18] years ago I thought my podcast

[00:26:20] is amazing like alls I need to do is

[00:26:22] there's already a flame

[00:26:24] I just need to turn up the heat

[00:26:26] and the way I can do that is to spend

[00:26:28] tens of thousands of dollars on advertising

[00:26:30] well it didn't work

[00:26:32] yeah and what

[00:26:34] I think was a hard

[00:26:36] lesson for me and a very expensive lesson

[00:26:38] you know advertising works

[00:26:40] when the product is already good

[00:26:42] yeah

[00:26:44] it doesn't make a poor product

[00:26:46] sell it just

[00:26:48] throws money away

[00:26:50] and if you don't know how to communicate the value

[00:26:52] you don't know like why

[00:26:54] who your market is it's really a

[00:26:56] frustrating task

[00:26:58] yes

[00:27:00] so I guess from there for me I didn't

[00:27:02] then put ads into the podcast

[00:27:04] because of that bad experience

[00:27:06] but I did get the podcast from it

[00:27:08] and again I think it's like

[00:27:10] I'm sure neither of us can sit here

[00:27:12] and promise someone that like

[00:27:14] you are not gonna you know

[00:27:16] slip up and get a few greases along the way

[00:27:18] you absolutely will

[00:27:20] and at the time

[00:27:22] at the time it was honestly devastating

[00:27:24] because we were in this start up

[00:27:26] making very little money it was like

[00:27:28] all of my savings I was really

[00:27:30] banking on like you know I really

[00:27:32] saw it as an investment that was gonna return

[00:27:34] and it was really really shit

[00:27:36] and I think it's

[00:27:38] important to say that because if anyone

[00:27:40] it falls down

[00:27:42] and gets that graze and feels terrible about it

[00:27:44] it's like that's also not the

[00:27:46] end point

[00:27:48] yeah no I think that's really important

[00:27:50] okay so let's move into

[00:27:52] just a couple of very direct questions

[00:27:54] let's get some free coaching from you

[00:27:56] let's do it

[00:27:58] for the podcasters one of the issues I see

[00:28:00] mentioned a lot in forums

[00:28:02] is that creators don't

[00:28:04] they have anxiety around the sound of their voice

[00:28:06] yeah

[00:28:08] how would you suggest somebody gets

[00:28:10] around that issue

[00:28:12] yeah

[00:28:14] so one of the things I speak to

[00:28:16] and teach a lot is kind of like

[00:28:18] so you have this anxiety about

[00:28:20] your voice and whenever we

[00:28:22] have anxiety our brain tells us that we

[00:28:24] need to solve that anxiety and we need

[00:28:26] to fix it but the reality

[00:28:28] is you can have anxiety around your voice

[00:28:30] and you are still physically capable

[00:28:32] of recording a podcast

[00:28:34] and publishing it and sometimes

[00:28:36] we're like so busy pandering

[00:28:38] to our anxiety that we just

[00:28:40] don't do the thing and what I want

[00:28:42] to encourage everyone is like you can

[00:28:44] have anxiety around your voice

[00:28:46] and you can still record the podcast

[00:28:48] and you can still publish it and the

[00:28:50] more you do that

[00:28:52] eventually what's going to happen is your brain

[00:28:54] is going to get bored of criticizing

[00:28:56] your voice and it's going to be like

[00:28:58] well I guess this isn't going to stop her

[00:29:00] because really what's happening is

[00:29:02] and the reason we have anxiety is your brain

[00:29:04] is like you are about to expose yourself

[00:29:06] to the world why would we do that

[00:29:08] that's like other people's opinions

[00:29:10] that's potential rejection and negativity

[00:29:12] and failure and the anxiety

[00:29:14] is there to stop you doing that

[00:29:16] but eventually once your brain

[00:29:18] learns that you're not going to die

[00:29:20] by publishing an episode

[00:29:22] it's like oh okay so even

[00:29:24] me and you spoke I spoke to you about my first

[00:29:26] episode of re-recording it three times

[00:29:28] it was the same thing my brain was like

[00:29:30] it has to be perfect so that no one ever

[00:29:32] criticizes as ever versus

[00:29:34] of course people

[00:29:36] are going to criticize

[00:29:38] it's a reflection

[00:29:40] welcome to the internet and welcome to humans

[00:29:42] even before the internet

[00:29:44] literally our brains are designed to judge

[00:29:46] so I would just say

[00:29:48] be mindful of trying

[00:29:50] to eliminate the anxiety before you do the thing

[00:29:52] because I had a client

[00:29:54] and she was like she came to me really proud

[00:29:56] she's like and so I was experiencing anxiety

[00:29:58] so I stopped what I was doing

[00:30:00] I sweep the floors for like two hours

[00:30:02] but then I didn't feel any better

[00:30:04] and I was like yeah because the anxiety

[00:30:06] isn't going to go away by

[00:30:08] not doing the things the only way

[00:30:10] to manage it is to do the

[00:30:12] thing and teach your brain that you're not going to die

[00:30:14] yeah that's

[00:30:16] really amazing advice so I

[00:30:18] structured the questions because I wanted to throw one anxiety

[00:30:20] question at you just for like old time's sake

[00:30:22] but the next ones are totally

[00:30:24] time management so

[00:30:26] they still connect

[00:30:28] I still see them all connecting and also

[00:30:30] I say not time management right

[00:30:32] like I'm like anti-time management

[00:30:34] let's see the questions

[00:30:36] no good

[00:30:38] that's a good distinction

[00:30:40] time hacking

[00:30:42] the problem with podcasting is this

[00:30:44] message

[00:30:46] that consistency is king

[00:30:48] it is a

[00:30:50] relentless burden

[00:30:52] that

[00:30:54] people like the best practices

[00:30:56] say hey

[00:30:58] Joe Smith or Susie

[00:31:00] you relies on your podcast

[00:31:02] every single

[00:31:04] Thursday or Monday or Tuesday

[00:31:06] or whatever for their commute to work

[00:31:08] and if you don't give it to them

[00:31:10] they will find something else

[00:31:12] so how do you

[00:31:14] combat that because

[00:31:16] it's almost impossible to have

[00:31:18] a episode every single week

[00:31:20] without fail like you have to take some time

[00:31:22] off I think don't you

[00:31:24] well so there's two ways I'm going to approach it one

[00:31:26] is you can batch record

[00:31:28] and have them like sometimes I will record

[00:31:30] for a few weeks or when I'm interviewing

[00:31:32] clients it'll be like done for a few weeks

[00:31:34] so you can definitely do

[00:31:36] that but I think what's more interesting so I just wanted to put that out

[00:31:38] there that you can do that

[00:31:40] and what's really interesting is like

[00:31:42] what the fuck does it mean to be consistent

[00:31:44] like really like consistent

[00:31:46] is not a measure

[00:31:48] someone says it's consistent to post

[00:31:50] at the same time every week at the same

[00:31:52] intervals for the same length of program

[00:31:54] like what are the fucking walls like no

[00:31:56] they're on like seriously

[00:31:58] consistency

[00:32:00] is a mindset right like when you are

[00:32:02] consistent with your friends is it because you call

[00:32:04] them the same time every week

[00:32:06] no like that's actually

[00:32:08] not what creates consistency it's

[00:32:10] more about like I think

[00:32:12] how you

[00:32:14] I think the number one thing you want to be consistent

[00:32:16] about is the value

[00:32:18] right you are giving but

[00:32:20] timeframes or length

[00:32:22] or frequency or any of that stuff

[00:32:24] like it is not going

[00:32:26] to determine your relationship with your listeners

[00:32:28] just like it doesn't determine your relationship

[00:32:30] with your friends and anyone that is out there

[00:32:32] preaching consistency are they

[00:32:34] making it measurable do they have like specific

[00:32:36] timelines because I bet if you asked

[00:32:38] five of them they would all say different

[00:32:40] things a 15 minute like when I started

[00:32:42] people were like that's short for an episode

[00:32:44] like you know the most

[00:32:46] episodes do really well at 40 minutes plus

[00:32:48] and I was like great I'm still going to do this

[00:32:50] like it doesn't matter I have a pair

[00:32:52] like a colleague and she

[00:32:54] is does them like as and when

[00:32:56] she feels like we actually have a podcast together

[00:32:58] that is never

[00:33:00] consistent because with two people

[00:33:02] two different timeframes she's in

[00:33:04] South Korea I'm in France

[00:33:06] like she's just had a baby

[00:33:08] and we'd like people love it

[00:33:10] it's just like it gives permission

[00:33:12] it gives people permission to also

[00:33:14] not be consistent so if you are also

[00:33:16] going to be human and not have it

[00:33:18] regular all the time you can even speak to that

[00:33:20] and be like hey this podcast

[00:33:22] is created by a human for humans

[00:33:24] there is no perfectionism here

[00:33:26] we are probably not going to get it out the same exact

[00:33:28] time every week be sure

[00:33:30] to hit subscribe so you get notified

[00:33:32] of when it comes out it's going to be the best

[00:33:34] surprise for you in the morning

[00:33:36] really addressing it instead of

[00:33:38] sometimes we can like hide behind like oh no

[00:33:40] I didn't do an episode last week I'm just

[00:33:42] going to not say anything like remember

[00:33:44] your audience are your friends they want a

[00:33:46] relationship and I don't know if you found

[00:33:48] this episode of mine but

[00:33:50] I have one called sitting in consequence

[00:33:52] and I used

[00:33:54] to do the podcast

[00:33:56] same time every week very consistent

[00:33:58] and then I

[00:34:00] travelled for work

[00:34:02] and I said I would do it

[00:34:04] in the hotel I didn't do it in the hotel

[00:34:06] I literally got to the airport and was like should I just

[00:34:08] do it in the airport like I don't know

[00:34:10] and obviously I couldn't so instead

[00:34:12] I wrote this concept around sitting

[00:34:14] in consequence which is something I teach my

[00:34:16] clients now as well which was really

[00:34:18] like owning up to my audience and being like

[00:34:20] here's what happened and I

[00:34:22] didn't let myself just record a shitty

[00:34:24] episode just to get it in for the deadline

[00:34:26] I actually like it's public

[00:34:28] all of you know that I failed

[00:34:30] I speak about procrastinating

[00:34:32] and here I am failing like

[00:34:34] and it's like one of the most downloaded episodes

[00:34:36] like people love it so people will

[00:34:38] love you for being human

[00:34:40] yeah I really like that

[00:34:42] what I didn't listen to that episode but

[00:34:44] I plan to the one that spurred this question

[00:34:46] is I listened to the consistency

[00:34:48] episode where you said you know consistency

[00:34:50] is fake it's a mindset like you just have to

[00:34:52] and I was hoping that you would kind of go into

[00:34:54] that which I thought was brilliant

[00:34:56] yeah me into the last question

[00:34:58] yeah right

[00:35:00] procrastination yeah I know this is

[00:35:02] this this is a theme

[00:35:04] yeah and I find in your podcast which I

[00:35:06] think is really fun because I

[00:35:08] I struggle with this myself

[00:35:10] yeah but so many times

[00:35:12] on Twitter I see

[00:35:14] podcasters post you know I have to record

[00:35:16] my episode it comes out tomorrow

[00:35:18] but I haven't even started on the

[00:35:20] show notes you know like I have so much

[00:35:22] research to do

[00:35:24] why do you think people get in that situation

[00:35:26] and how can you get out of it

[00:35:30] yeah so so I say that there's

[00:35:32] four reasons why we procrastinate

[00:35:34] the first is our thoughts about

[00:35:36] time but really

[00:35:38] underneath that are the other three

[00:35:40] and the one is our thoughts about

[00:35:42] ourselves when we self identify

[00:35:44] as a procrastinator it's like

[00:35:46] we are a vending machine and we are

[00:35:48] putting in procrastinating

[00:35:50] and then we are wondering why we get that out

[00:35:52] it's like literally that's how our brain operates

[00:35:54] whatever you say is what it creates

[00:35:56] so that's one of the most common ones

[00:35:58] that I see that like we're not even aware

[00:36:00] of like you literally never have to describe

[00:36:02] yourself as a procrastinator

[00:36:04] so that's the first

[00:36:06] the second one is our thoughts about

[00:36:08] like the task at hand so if

[00:36:10] for example you've got like a podcast episode

[00:36:12] where you're like I can't wait

[00:36:14] to teach this it's going to be f**king amazing

[00:36:16] like it's so easy I already know everything

[00:36:18] you're probably going to show up different

[00:36:20] A than when you're like I don't know

[00:36:22] if people are going to like this and this part

[00:36:24] is boring and I don't like writing the show

[00:36:26] notes or the research starting as the hardest

[00:36:28] part or whatever it is just notice

[00:36:30] the story you have around the task

[00:36:32] at hand because that 100% is

[00:36:34] going to drive your action of like

[00:36:36] putting something off we're going to put something

[00:36:38] off if we don't want to do it

[00:36:40] and the other one

[00:36:42] that we'll speak to is our thoughts

[00:36:44] about the stakeholders so if you like

[00:36:46] probably heard me speak today

[00:36:48] like I think of my listeners as my friends

[00:36:50] as my community even like Greg you said

[00:36:52] when we got on today that you felt that

[00:36:54] and you felt like we were friends like

[00:36:56] that's because that's genuinely how I feel

[00:36:58] but if you think

[00:37:00] like someone's going to hate this

[00:37:02] people don't even like it no one cares

[00:37:04] no one's listening

[00:37:06] you are not going to be motivated to show up

[00:37:08] and do it so it's really

[00:37:10] our thoughts about ourselves

[00:37:12] our thoughts about the task and our thoughts

[00:37:14] and then sometimes our thoughts about time

[00:37:16] like not having enough

[00:37:18] and the reason why it's so important

[00:37:20] to pause and identify that is like

[00:37:22] our thoughts are not facts

[00:37:24] and they are changeable we can

[00:37:26] redirect our brain to

[00:37:28] fuelers like for example

[00:37:30] if your brain is like I'm a procrastinator

[00:37:32] how do I know I'm going to get this done

[00:37:34] you've probably got like well I've done 50 episodes before

[00:37:36] like this is nothing new

[00:37:38] if you're telling yourself like I don't want to do this

[00:37:40] because I don't like this part of the task

[00:37:42] why do you want to do it though

[00:37:44] because you are choosing to do it

[00:37:46] everyone with a podcast is choosing to have a podcast for a reason

[00:37:48] make your brain

[00:37:50] go away from its default

[00:37:52] negativity and like actually dig

[00:37:54] like why is it and your brain might resist this at first

[00:37:56] because our brains

[00:37:58] are wired to be lazy

[00:38:00] like conserve energy

[00:38:02] you get to like ask it like okay but

[00:38:04] why did I start this podcast

[00:38:06] and you can even if you do get messages from people

[00:38:08] saying about how it's helped them

[00:38:10] or impacted their lives like you could set

[00:38:12] in a routine right before I start

[00:38:14] my podcast I read one of those appreciation messages

[00:38:16] something like that

[00:38:18] do you think it's

[00:38:20] okay to like the end result

[00:38:22] but hate the steps

[00:38:24] to get there like is that a normal thing

[00:38:26] I think it's totally okay

[00:38:28] but I think what I would say is like

[00:38:30] recognize that's the choice

[00:38:32] so do you want to continue

[00:38:34] to hate the steps to get there

[00:38:36] is that worth it for you

[00:38:38] listen sometimes the answer is going to be yes

[00:38:40] like I've not convinced myself

[00:38:42] that I love the process of filing

[00:38:44] taxes and all of that stuff

[00:38:46] I'm okay but it's not something that I do every week

[00:38:48] so if you are

[00:38:50] producing a podcast every week

[00:38:52] and you are telling yourself you hate the process

[00:38:54] like it might be worthwhile

[00:38:56] starting to sell yourself

[00:38:58] and redirect your thoughts

[00:39:00] onto what you do like about the process

[00:39:02] and maybe you won't love all of it

[00:39:04] but maybe like even a 50%

[00:39:06] shift or even a 10% shift

[00:39:08] is going to

[00:39:10] change the game for you and could be that difference

[00:39:12] between like getting it done

[00:39:14] or not and in fact I'm going to stick with

[00:39:16] that 10% shift because it could

[00:39:18] literally be one different

[00:39:20] thought your thought could be

[00:39:22] research is the hardest part

[00:39:24] you'd be like but why have I chosen this topic

[00:39:26] it's because it interests me and that could be

[00:39:28] the spark that gets you going

[00:39:30] so it doesn't have to be like okay I love

[00:39:32] research always and I'm an amazing

[00:39:34] reset like it doesn't have to be

[00:39:36] dramatic

[00:39:38] I think that is a brilliant place to stop

[00:39:40] I don't know how it gets better than that

[00:39:42] honestly so

[00:39:44] I appreciate you being on the show

[00:39:46] so much why don't you tell everybody

[00:39:48] where they can find you and any of your calls

[00:39:50] to action

[00:39:52] thank you yeah thanks for having me

[00:39:54] so first place to go is

[00:39:56] hack your time the podcast with Vicky Luise

[00:39:58] on any podcast app

[00:40:00] second place to hang out with me

[00:40:02] is on Instagram just at Vicky Luise

[00:40:04] underscore underscore underscore

[00:40:06] because there's other Vicky Luises in the world

[00:40:08] that spell their name

[00:40:10] with the I K K I like me

[00:40:12] and then you can also

[00:40:14] get a free be called how to stop wasting time

[00:40:16] and you can get that at

[00:40:18] vickyluise.com forward slash

[00:40:20] guide and it's like a 10 minute

[00:40:22] video with the four biggest time wasters

[00:40:24] and how to solve them so

[00:40:26] probably perfect for some of the things we've spoken about today

[00:40:28] that's brilliant

[00:40:30] and a personal endorsement for me if anybody's watching

[00:40:32] I think if you have 15 free minutes

[00:40:34] in a week this is a great way to spend it

[00:40:36] I know that I resonated with

[00:40:38] many of the episodes already

[00:40:40] and I'm I plan to continue listening

[00:40:42] amazing thanks so much

[00:40:44] Greg thanks for having me

[00:40:46] yeah thank you all right

[00:40:48] bye bye

[00:40:50] thank you so much to Vicky Luise host of

[00:40:52] hack your time podcast

[00:40:54] we got so many great actionable pieces of

[00:40:56] advice many of them

[00:40:58] really resonated with me personally

[00:41:00] and I'm gonna put some of these in practice

[00:41:02] I hope that it had

[00:41:04] similar effect on everybody listening

[00:41:06] if you like this podcast make sure you

[00:41:08] give it a subscribe

[00:41:10] and if there's one podcaster out there who you think

[00:41:12] might benefit from this episode

[00:41:14] please share it we would really

[00:41:16] appreciate it we'll put all

[00:41:18] of hack your times information

[00:41:20] plus all of podcast creators information

[00:41:22] down in the show notes below so that you can

[00:41:24] click the links and make it real easy

[00:41:26] if you're an independent podcaster listening to this

[00:41:28] don't forget you can submit an

[00:41:30] episode to indydropin.com

[00:41:32] forward slash creators

[00:41:34] if your episode is chosen

[00:41:36] it will be featured on one of Indy

[00:41:38] Dropins podcasts

[00:41:40] exposing your show to a whole

[00:41:42] new set of listeners and it's

[00:41:44] 100% free that's

[00:41:46] indydropin.com forward slash

[00:41:48] creators and I'll put all that in the

[00:41:50] show notes below we appreciate you listening

[00:41:52] so much and we'll talk to you next

[00:41:54] time bye bye