Director and Writer George Popov by Mission Spooky

[00:00:00] Listener discretion is advised. Hello and welcome to Scary Time, the podcast that helps

[00:00:06] you find new, emerging and undiscovered scary and paranormal podcasts. I'm Greg, the host

[00:00:12] and curator of Scary Time. Today's episode is from Mission Spooky. Mission Spooky is a

[00:00:19] bi-weekly podcast where history meets the peculiar and the paranormal. If you like today's

[00:00:25] episode, make sure to check out the episode description for links to subscribe. Alright,

[00:00:30] let's get this show started. Begin!

[00:00:55] Welcome to Mission Spooky. I'm your fantastic host, JC, with me today as per usual, the

[00:01:14] queen of everything herself, Kiki, our local cryptic enthusiast, Cored and someone from

[00:01:21] across the pond. Kiki, why don't you introduce our special guest here?

[00:01:26] Today we are absolutely delighted to have writer, director, George Popoff joining us today.

[00:01:32] He is known for indie horror films such as Hex from 2017, The Troving from 2020 and the

[00:01:39] docuseries that captured my attention side world. We have you here today. How you doing?

[00:01:44] Well thanks guys, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah, and this is going

[00:01:48] to be great. Stay positive, that's what I do.

[00:01:55] Oh yeah, no, no, no, we'll make it through. Like I said, I have a bit of a cold or hay fever

[00:02:02] whatever is going on now so we'll all make it through and we'll get to the other side

[00:02:07] of the supernatural film world. Before we officially get into the real meat of it, I want

[00:02:15] to know, did you have a personal experience that kind of triggered your interest in the

[00:02:18] paranormal and folklore or was it just always like you like just like the stories?

[00:02:23] You mean like a supernatural one? Yeah. No, not really. I think it all started from the

[00:02:29] storytelling passion. I think it was the combination of first being a fan of a few horror

[00:02:37] films when I was young and probably way too young for my parents still on me to watch

[00:02:41] all of them. But mainly stuff like alien and all the really atmospheric visual stuff

[00:02:46] which I absolutely adored while being afraid of it. And then all kinds of fantasy and romantic

[00:02:52] stuff like loaded rings and really awesome, you know, all kinds of stories that include

[00:02:58] a lot of myths and legends. I love dark fairy tales, mythology, Greek, whatever.

[00:03:04] So I think with the years, the mixture of all those and trying to find and tell my own

[00:03:08] stories in the fiction of work and like it also is in the two arts of feature films you

[00:03:14] mentioned. Then after that sort of crystallized with me and Jonathan, my writing partner.

[00:03:18] It was a lot of the history as well in the folklore that were really interested in.

[00:03:22] I just watched Hex most recently. It kind of went backward. I watched Sideworld first

[00:03:28] and then went back and watched the horror films. Oh geez. Oh no. No, no, no. So you made Hex

[00:03:36] on a budget of a thousand pounds. Is that correct? Yeah, I mean we did beg for a lot

[00:03:41] of things that otherwise would cost money. So that doesn't count. I guess if we were paying

[00:03:46] for everything will be more than that. But yeah, no, it was that was us right at the beginning.

[00:03:51] That was our first feature film. We just made the company. Yeah, that was just trying to

[00:03:56] tell us stories. Yeah. Well, I was watched it and I was like, what? This was only a thousand

[00:04:03] about that's roughly for Americans is like 1300 bucks. Yeah, yeah, four actors and basically

[00:04:09] using the woods as your background in your stage, which was amazing anyway. It's gorgeous.

[00:04:15] Well, no, thank you. Well, first of all, that was one of the things that I really paid

[00:04:19] attention to because I was aware that we're not going to be the only indie filmmakers trying

[00:04:24] to make a cheap movie in the woods. So I was like, oh, how do you? How do you make something

[00:04:29] stand out of like my encounter with Bigfoot or something? A lot of care went into selecting

[00:04:35] the locations of it, which I think they absolutely help us. But no, it was a great experience

[00:04:42] and yeah, it was a story that really cared about. And I think the response that we got

[00:04:46] from the film especially critically was a lot higher than what we expected for that

[00:04:50] prize for sure. Yeah, the set I would we do no spoiler reviews because I obviously

[00:04:56] wanted everybody to go watch these things. But the ending as someone who is definitely a

[00:05:01] practicing heathen, I was like, oh, wow. Yeah, that got me. Yeah, sorry. I mean it was yeah,

[00:05:10] I know. Yeah, I'll try not to ruin everybody else who wants to watch it, but it's still

[00:05:17] something that I believe in quite a lot and tried to set up a story that you might think

[00:05:23] you're going into one genre and telling one thing and then maybe, maybe with time we'll slowly

[00:05:29] unveil a different sort of truth to it. And the next film, the drooping after that does exactly

[00:05:36] that again, great job of getting me feeling like yes, we were definitely going in one genre

[00:05:42] and then just bam, nope. And then the ending was like, what? It was so good. It was so good.

[00:05:49] Well, thank you very much. I appreciate that of course. And yeah, I just like them,

[00:05:53] especially when we're starting out like sort of at the beginning of our careers and trying to

[00:05:58] you know, make every next film bigger and more exciting. Something that you can do on the

[00:06:05] cheap is trying to make your film not as predictable as everything else and sort of offer something

[00:06:12] new, especially if you're trading in a genre where there is a lot of different stuff and

[00:06:16] a lot of them are done so greatly that I think trying to make it even more personal and interesting

[00:06:22] and see things from a different perspective. And every time you pull that rug under the viewers' feet,

[00:06:28] I think they love it. It's like another roller coaster ride in terms of like, you know,

[00:06:34] Avengers Endgame but like on a knowing how you feel and where you sit and like, you know,

[00:06:39] I'm in one moment, you feel like yeah, this is awesome. In the next moment, you feel dirty

[00:06:43] that you fell that way. I love that. That is a good way to explain it. Yeah, exactly.

[00:06:48] I'm seeing a connection though maybe, I don't know, it seems like the Hex was haunted

[00:06:54] forest of England maybe and then the drawing seems like maybe damn nation village while

[00:06:59] I'll get into those more in a minute. And so the first side world from the documentary series that

[00:07:04] I watched was Terrace of the Sea. So the first thing I need to know is are we going to see a third

[00:07:10] horror film with that sea folktale genre from you? Oh, one day for sure. Absolutely. I think

[00:07:18] maybe it's not going to be as neatly one two three and one side and then on the other. You

[00:07:22] might not be immediately the next one. But I think that's inevitable because that's the sort of

[00:07:28] the areas in biomes if you will were those kind of like subgenres of legends and stories

[00:07:33] and places that we explore in the documentaries absolutely come from us looking around for

[00:07:40] wonderful locations and stores and inspiration for those feature films. So it wasn't as

[00:07:45] predetermined as it might seem but a lot, it was very natural going back into some of the places

[00:07:51] where we shot before and be like is that forest actually haunted? Like let's look into that

[00:07:56] and it will be no surprise there is one particular location of Hex. That's a you know,

[00:08:01] it's in the Morgamation of different forests but one of them is featured as the second chapter

[00:08:07] of haunted forest in England which is Canuck Chase. Yeah, there is a lot running through that but

[00:08:12] yeah you well spotted for sure. So back to side world. So in case people are not aware although

[00:08:18] I've talked it up on both Twitter and a little bit on Instagram already. That series has three

[00:08:24] installments so far. So haunted forest of England, terrors of the sea and then damnation village

[00:08:29] and each one has a couple of different frightening tales myths and folklore that go into each one.

[00:08:34] Of course they're around that biome like you just said. Yeah the terrors of the sea one was

[00:08:39] the first one and I saw the same thing in the next couple after that which was like one of the

[00:08:44] stories at each one I had heard of the rest of them just totally never heard of these before and

[00:08:51] I love that. That was a lot of fun so this is the reason but that were all three of us are

[00:08:56] recommending that everybody go watch these because first of all beautifully shot like I'm trying

[00:09:00] to think about how to say this but was there like a specific influence in the world of documentaries

[00:09:05] for you when you were doing this because that's the difference between I think what I've seen in

[00:09:10] other quote documentaries of like paranormal events. This is so beautiful. Yeah well thank you very

[00:09:15] much and I think the right answer is no I think I'm a complete idiot when it comes to documentaries

[00:09:20] and how to shoot them and I think that's what sets those apart because I was just when we're

[00:09:26] thinking about the idea and Jonathan was who suggested about like that we had a lot to say on this

[00:09:30] with all our previous research and kind of interesting those things and I said sure but I don't know

[00:09:37] the first thing. I mean I like watching them you know some you know sipping some tea and chilling

[00:09:42] while watching some serial killers on Netflix great you know it's a great evening but and some

[00:09:47] others I mean obviously I love Werner Herzog documentaries and and then I can I can cite that

[00:09:52] and a lot of other BBC stuff as well but but I started trying to figure out how to do it in a way

[00:09:58] that that fits with who we are and I just realized what if I think of it the same way that I think

[00:10:03] of the atmosphere of the of the fictional films. I'm trying to put like the music will be as if

[00:10:08] it's from a fictional film the visuals as well and then it's just an narration in all the other parts

[00:10:14] of it they're gonna make it feel like a documentary so me and my cinematographer Richard Suckling we

[00:10:19] absolutely looked at it and tried to shoot it as if there was actors in those shots is just

[00:10:23] sometimes the actors were the tree or the the stone or the or the building or or we shot as if

[00:10:29] there is a figure there as well it just it wasn't in the shot and we but we left that space for it

[00:10:34] and the same with the color grade and everything else so yeah that's my answer is like I absolutely

[00:10:40] cheated and just went and tried it to treat them as as cinematically as possible and and have people

[00:10:45] be welcomed into that really make it into a world aside world where where you can just grab a

[00:10:51] warm drink and kind of like you know sit on your bed and enjoy them as well as tales and as

[00:10:58] atmosphere not only as um dry information. It seemed to work out pretty good in your favor.

[00:11:05] Thank you. I particularly enjoyed in damnation village the the rain shots of like the churches and

[00:11:12] stuff. Yeah nature was really really helpful you know it usually tended to be sunny when we needed

[00:11:20] it to be and to rain when we needed it to be and now it was that's also a great experience with

[00:11:27] documentaries it also helps with the other parts of indifference that sometimes you really have

[00:11:30] to make the best lemonade out of you know your lemons and I personally love lemons I don't even

[00:11:36] understand your knowledge. But yeah yeah I'm I'm that guy that if you're drinking your coke and

[00:11:41] I'll be like are you eating the lemon after that? Like and I'll just shove the whole thing in my mouth.

[00:11:45] So um so yeah like sometimes you can take all these all these uh chances that they're given to you

[00:11:51] and you have to make the the best out of it with just your camera and um the more limitations you

[00:11:57] have especially in documentary in terms of you know the time and you know it's it's a even smaller

[00:12:03] crew and and like I said no actors to bail you out with uh with a wonderful performance um that puts

[00:12:08] more emphasis even more on the on the on the field individuals and your angles and every single little

[00:12:13] detail becomes uh every you know what usually will be a tiny whisper in a in a um fiction

[00:12:20] film because a loud shout when that's all you're you're giving your audience. So I love that and I

[00:12:25] think it's made me a better a better filmmaker for the for the fictional stuff so you know for our

[00:12:30] next um narrative film I think um I hope it's gonna be even better because those documentaries really

[00:12:37] make you work for every single little piece. Of the three of the documentaries do you have a favorite?

[00:12:43] Well I mean it's uh I think it's with every director is like your your favorite one is always like

[00:12:48] the last one and the next one that that's that's how it goes but no it's difficult to say we

[00:12:54] somehow made uh you know three feature-length documentaries in a single year a little bit more

[00:13:00] with a few months on top on research and preparation which was a bit crazy and uh we're not gonna do

[00:13:06] that again you know we'll you know we'll we'll slow it down a little bit so I haven't had like much

[00:13:11] time to watch them in between the films because it was just on onto the next one but um I know it's

[00:13:16] a cop-out answer but but to me they really feel like they're different shores of the same mirror piece

[00:13:22] you know and there's something I like about each and every one but a very new and sort of probably

[00:13:29] the most crystallized one it seems to me to be like of the nation village which is the last one

[00:13:36] its last chapter which was about the plague village of Ime. I think that one seems to strike quite

[00:13:41] a chord with the audience a lot of people said that we really hit it there and then um I can

[00:13:46] understand why and and that one was the village that I did know about a new a lot of the history

[00:13:52] about that but yet you kind of because you were there and uh here we're the 1666

[00:14:00] hmm is that why you knew a lot of his every time I had to make fun that she's old oh yeah well

[00:14:06] well done on surviving first of all you know that was very very very very thank you yes

[00:14:15] if I would have known that when we were filming you know we would have had like a great little piece but

[00:14:19] you could I just called me up I would have I know I know I would have flown over it's not

[00:14:24] oh yeah old Ben he was a good dude small penis though but really cool dude things kiki cuts from the

[00:14:31] episode um we don't talk about Ben's penis come on man we show it well that stays in the podcast

[00:14:42] it didn't matter I guess is the best way to say it was still really interesting the way you

[00:14:47] presented it so yeah absolutely and uh it was just one of those things that uh

[00:14:52] it didn't really feel like you needed to go too much into the paranormal and go because

[00:14:56] it was less interesting for once than the actual history because we were gonna go into all the

[00:15:01] sightings and everything in explain you know all the different goes they're related to the plague

[00:15:06] victims but but you know it seemed like it was a very after the actual ordeal of what happened

[00:15:12] of the horrors of the plague you know heavy like and then you know Bobby moved the glass a little bit

[00:15:18] in the pub you know that that seems to seem that he wouldn't have worked quite as well so um we just

[00:15:24] left it as it was and yeah it was it was a very striking place for sure yeah I'm disappointed though

[00:15:30] because you could have had you know you could have somebody come in and shout at Bobby about moving the glass

[00:15:35] you i mean oh that's what happened so i think ghosts here in England and the pubs are so common that

[00:15:41] they're more of an use since than you know than anything else um i think they should even like

[00:15:47] you know they're not even getting paid any wages for like basically you taking care of the

[00:15:52] pub at this point so you know there's a lot there that can be explored okay so you are originally

[00:16:00] from Bulgaria are you going to be doing anything at all about folktales from Bulgaria oh yeah it's

[00:16:09] inevitable you know we're gonna end up there it's it's you can't you can't escape from your

[00:16:16] abok and curse that's uh we're all either like half empires or half we're wolves or something else

[00:16:24] it's a great region and i love it dearly and there's a lot that i want to do they're both on

[00:16:29] the documentary and fictional side because it's such a great combination of cultures in and not

[00:16:35] that huge of a territory and that's where obviously a lot of problems come from uh but also a

[00:16:41] lot of lovely stuff come from can i kind of remind me of another modern country um but uh

[00:16:45] america yes it is um because you know you have you have bulgari have romania you have turk you have

[00:16:54] grease you have a bunch of other ones that i don't want mentioned but uh though you know there

[00:16:59] there's um there's a great combination of of all these stories and and it's such across roads

[00:17:06] in the world between europe and asia and africa's not very far either it's so many things have

[00:17:12] happened in terms of different peoples and in religions and beliefs and there's a lot of

[00:17:20] pagan stuff to still remain despite whoever's christian or muslim at this point so um no it's

[00:17:26] it is very interesting it's very fascinating it's a it's a very unexplored part of the world from

[00:17:31] uh from a folkloric point of view as well i mean there is there is some few uh famous tales like

[00:17:36] i said you know that will the vampires and the war wolves and stuff but uh i think there there's a

[00:17:41] lot more to it than yeah i would absolutely love to do what's up do more with that i've never heard

[00:17:45] of them you you can come along and we'll show you okay just be careful where you ask that question

[00:17:53] you might left a little bit uh a drained from from the experience

[00:17:57] that um oh man yes pun bad puns are part of like a vampire history that's that's it's in the books

[00:18:05] but no i i think there's a lot of weird stuff that that people still believe but

[00:18:11] i'm usually left with impression it's more on the sort of superstitious side and sort of like a

[00:18:16] healthy metaphoric way of thinking about it not as much as like actually believing it or you know

[00:18:23] dogma a sort of way of thinking um it's just a lot of like i said mixture of tales and in a lot of

[00:18:28] another weird things that have happened i mean recently as well in bogaria there it's been quite a

[00:18:33] few interesting finds that are quite difficult to disprove like for example the the tomb of

[00:18:38] with these bodies that they discard from the medieval ages that the skeletons did have really long

[00:18:44] fangs and they had wooden stakes in their in their chests so that's a bit difficult to explain

[00:18:50] when you find that in a crypt you know if it's just a coincidence or a hoax now i'm going to be

[00:18:55] looking at uh bodies of the face i was like wait what uh oh what did they find uh oh what happened

[00:19:02] oh yeah yeah it's it's worth it googling i mean and like i said if we do make a sideworld

[00:19:07] piece on that it will have to be it will have to be uh its own trilogy because so many crazy stories

[00:19:12] there um and you can take it from from vampires where was to you know aliens quite a few crazy

[00:19:18] stories there that that's uh difficult to believe now you stay crazy i say very reasonable and logical

[00:19:26] alien oh yeah no absolutely i think especially when you hear alien stories coming from like a 90

[00:19:32] year old granny that lived in the forest her whole life and you know the last thing she remembers is

[00:19:38] the invention of the trebuchet or something you know and um they're inter they're interviewing her

[00:19:44] about what she saw uh and she's describing you know literally aliens out of a spoo book film

[00:19:50] accurately scientifically just not using the right terms because she's you know not exactly the king

[00:19:55] of pop culture but you know that that is fascinating and every time you see stories like that i mean

[00:20:00] there there's examples of that uh those kind of eyewitnesses in in america too or especially

[00:20:07] in brazil there's quite a few famous cases where that happened where we see these people that are not

[00:20:12] quite the ones who want to be in front of a camera talking about discrediting themselves in their

[00:20:18] eyes talking about things that that people might consider outlandish but they describe them almost

[00:20:23] as if they were completely aware of the whole subculture but now it's um sounds very legit at least

[00:20:30] you are listening to an episode of mission spooky on true crime by indie drop-in network we're

[00:20:35] gonna take a quick break and back to this episode of mission spooky you guys have any questions

[00:20:42] because i don't want it's like you know yes the one that does all the research and prep is the

[00:20:47] one doing like who what did you think i was going to do in this kiki i don't know you did watch them

[00:20:53] come on for a second i thought that was a question from it's like who's the one who's doing

[00:20:57] all the research and prep and i was like not me like i don't who does do all the research

[00:21:06] you have your own research ideas sir we do everything together but um

[00:21:11] but john from the rest so uh you know we produce them together and he produces them

[00:21:15] and we write them together and uh we've done everything with our company we'll be

[00:21:19] confirmed pretty much together from beginning he puts a lot of the of the pentapaper stuff but uh no

[00:21:25] the research is split but i usually come with the ideas and then he helps me you know

[00:21:29] obviously turn them into text that sounds not written by an idiot so um and then i try to read it

[00:21:36] properly so so it's um but but also he doesn't like speaking too much so it's a really good

[00:21:41] combination of the uh of the two things i was gonna say to be fair so our listeners know i did ask

[00:21:48] john then if he wanted to join us and he uh wrote back and said no yeah yeah that's

[00:21:54] life-fully declining saying i i'm the guy in the background George does all the talking

[00:21:59] what's very sweet no he is he is very sweet and he's wonderful and he is the you know

[00:22:05] absolutely uh the men in the chair and i'm just sort of like the uh he's the ventriloquist

[00:22:12] and i'm the puppet so so now it's it's great and um no it's it's a really good thing especially

[00:22:18] in filmmaking when i mean we have uh obviously similar relationship with with with our music

[00:22:25] composer with our synotographer with everybody else involved and um that we work on cyworld or on

[00:22:31] the other films but but right on the core when you start all these projects and you sort of conceive

[00:22:36] them together it's really good to have someone who uh we kind of cover up each other's deficiencies

[00:22:41] but you guys you know you work together and you know not you know that very well

[00:22:45] yeah i cover for these idiots yeah we work together yes

[00:22:52] i don't just turn up man he already knows you dude he already knows you

[00:23:00] i do my research there we go we came up with this okay speaking of working with um people

[00:23:10] over again Daniel old Royte is in both of your films yes and the drawing was that just

[00:23:17] like was he someone you knew or how how did that happen that he wasn't both he was the only actor

[00:23:22] who returned the call now uh joking that's definitely that's not the case another we call everyone

[00:23:28] obviously but um no that that's that's awesome actually actually because we originally cast him

[00:23:35] for a completely different film that didn't happen and that was supposed to be our our first

[00:23:39] feature film and then when we sort of changed our minds and and kind of uh when a different

[00:23:44] direction and we went for hex then um you know that was on my mind because of the audition that he did

[00:23:51] and um you know for people who know or for people who don't which is most of the people there

[00:23:57] is two uh prominent male characters and and um one is sort of more of a kind of religious and in

[00:24:05] good natured character who fights on the parliamentarian side of the english and english civil war

[00:24:11] and the other one is the the royalist soldier Richard which which was done plays and then it's

[00:24:16] that is so much like not your typical super macho you know aggressive toxic guy so

[00:24:24] and the character we cast him for in the other film was nothing like it either when i called him

[00:24:30] for hex and you know he read the script and says like yeah i really like it and i think i think i

[00:24:34] think he'll be it'll be good for me i think i can figure out how to do uh Thomas and like what

[00:24:38] what Thomas i'm not talking about Thomas i'm talking about you play the other guy is like well what

[00:24:42] the one that fights and everything's like yeah yeah that one so that was a great thing to do because

[00:24:46] i think it took him out of his uh comfort zone and uh the way i cast and i think that

[00:24:53] coming back to what you said about our hex and the drawing and i do hope it comes across is like i

[00:24:57] like to cast characters for where they end up and who they are really on the inside rather than you

[00:25:03] know what's what's the mask that they're wearing i think you get much more interesting and layered

[00:25:09] performances out of that then for someone like oh you know you're bold and so fat you'll be the tough

[00:25:16] guy pig character and it's like i think i think i think there is a lot more to it when you especially

[00:25:22] when you're dealing with a very intelligent actor and so on who's kind of intuney you have a great

[00:25:25] rapport together to explore a character where you if you build those rare layers into your script that

[00:25:31] you build them often what's gonna be a lot more difficult is where they end up because everything

[00:25:36] else like who they pretend to be like i can i can help a lot with that i can sort of edit the film

[00:25:40] and score it and shoot it in a way that i can i can help build that mask but um if they can't really

[00:25:46] perform the person who they really are that's i think that's uh more difficult so yeah i was great

[00:25:50] to work with him and then when the drawing came up and that was even more so of a character like this

[00:25:55] that had many layers to win complexities then uh i said uh yeah he might be might be sort of like

[00:26:01] easy but like uh yeah let's do a let's do a boob the nero squirce easy thing none of them comparing

[00:26:07] us to to that but um that sort of relationship and uh oh yeah i'd love to work with him again

[00:26:13] he killed both parts as far as i'm concerned is the watcher i enjoy and William young played

[00:26:19] Thomas then in hex he did a great job as well they were awesome together you know kind of playing

[00:26:25] off each other and then to watch him i had watched him in the drawing first i guess i kind of

[00:26:29] did everything backwards that that's another ending that's like oh man yeah brilliant and i guess i

[00:26:35] do do those oh man endings you do you just hope it's good though well thank you very much uh

[00:26:43] we'll keep trying i do legally have to ask uh what's your favorite cryptid my favorite cryptid yeah man

[00:26:51] oh man that's a good legal question yeah yeah yeah oh i guess they're favorite for different reasons

[00:26:58] like i have i can't well obviously aliens is not a cryptid it's like it's like a subgenre but

[00:27:03] that's where y'all started but then when i got into cryptids i was a lot into bigfoot stores but not

[00:27:10] too much into bigfoot itself because it just seemed a bit boring like it just seemed like a big monkey

[00:27:16] i think more recently i got more interested in it because the stores got a lot more varied and

[00:27:20] crazy but um don't know i'm uh i'm uh bit of a moth man you know man i guess

[00:27:28] yeah yeah uh man the good choice what's your genu mountain mama take me home country roads uh yeah so

[00:27:39] a little bit of that i have to say i have to say a lot of great stories there and i don't even know

[00:27:43] half of the ones i really want to want to hear so a lot of great stories but yeah i have to say that

[00:27:48] because it's just just nuts and good visual as well i had a question about see i have a question

[00:27:53] but i'm thinking about how i want to word this go with the question now we're word for you okay

[00:27:59] so like how much of the side world stuff is research compared to just story gathering from

[00:28:08] like wherever you guys are getting the stories from any like research farther than just story

[00:28:13] collecting or like how deep down the rabbit hole are you guys going yeah that's actually a pretty good

[00:28:19] question because there you're right there is a difference i think it's a bit of both because

[00:28:24] initially one of the most interesting things about it is the stores themselves right so you might

[00:28:29] have seen with subtle then it's something that we definitely want to make sure that it's part of what

[00:28:33] we do that's a lot of the conclusions are made by the viewer rather than ourselves because it's

[00:28:40] so interesting that if you lean more towards one or the other i'm not usually a huge kind of

[00:28:44] documentaries that without you know even 80 90% of the evidence they really just jump to a

[00:28:52] conclusion they start with the thesis and then they end up with like and now i'm gonna lay out all

[00:28:56] the examples i have that only support the theory i want to be making right

[00:29:01] i 100% agree with you i just stopped watching a documentary because i was like bro do not put

[00:29:07] my thoughts in my brain for me yeah no 100% and i think people are getting smarter and smarter

[00:29:12] realizing that that's not great and that's one of the initial reasons because i had i was a bit

[00:29:19] afraid of documentaries is because i felt this responsibility where i don't i don't want to be that

[00:29:24] guy you don't want to accidentally push a narrative yeah exactly exactly well with the narrative film

[00:29:30] like i don't work it's like i made everything up like and i do have a narrative and i do have

[00:29:34] something to say and like if you agree with me like great if you don't go fuck yourself like i'm

[00:29:38] care it's it's a it's a movie right like that's fine i'm sorry are you sure that your film

[00:29:44] bargaria and not from Philadelphia because that's yeah right that's a very silly thing to say yes

[00:29:49] that was a very downtown feeling way to go about it you know well i've been watching a lot of

[00:29:54] the rocket recently so maybe that is maybe that is it you know so uh and also look you know how

[00:30:02] we said like you know being born in your like um fucked you know i think Philadelphia and uh

[00:30:08] in the Balkans like he's not wrong he's not yeah that is that tracks that's where you're in

[00:30:15] honor a Philadelphia now just that's why i well thank you very much i appreciate it it's like it's

[00:30:20] those things of like having like a great history of glory and now you're like uh you know that's

[00:30:26] that's like how can we ever live up to that that's i think that has a lot of income in the

[00:30:32] like bogeyra wrote half of europe at some point it's like in that now it's like uh have you heard

[00:30:36] of us uh have you read that reporter do you remember that one book yeah the fourth one the

[00:30:43] guy the the one dude he's from he's from here that's where yeah yeah yeah yeah you know

[00:30:50] the one where they again painted us all as really bad guys yeah exactly but he was at their

[00:30:55] bike control trust me you know um definitely um and he said note to her mind she was underage um

[00:31:05] so yeah he was he was decent you know that like the other guys to be fair that's a plus one for him

[00:31:14] exactly exactly so um where were we but but no anyway but um sorry that that that's my

[00:31:22] Philadelphia big not that pushing thing very well done uh you're you were saying you're not

[00:31:28] pushing in narrative which yes thank you very much yeah that's we appreciate because neither we

[00:31:34] no no yeah that that's something that and sometimes it's it's you know you given the opinions i

[00:31:38] hate we think that this might be a good reason why this happened or we think this might be a good

[00:31:43] theory behind it or we've seen other people say and i find this more legit than the other ones and

[00:31:47] we you know we don't mention the ones that we didn't like to include and we're mentioning the ones

[00:31:52] that we do like to include but like it's good to have two sides of the story i think that's how

[00:31:57] truth is a born or discovered is by having a discussion which again in modern day is usually

[00:32:05] difficult to happen so um yeah yeah but i think that's an important part of what we do and that's

[00:32:12] when you want to present you want to present the stories and you want to also do a better research

[00:32:19] let's say if we're looking from the fact-in-fiction thing which uh the sidewall is diving into

[00:32:23] like what is the line between fact-in-fiction where where is it because we say it's obscure and

[00:32:27] we say it can be difficult especially when you're dealing with history folklore stories

[00:32:32] paranormal is this something that actually happened can be explained with normal science and

[00:32:36] historical events but then it turned into a fairy tale or is it something that you know it genuinely

[00:32:41] is supernatural and and that's what there is a there is a legend to it there's so many things of how

[00:32:47] we can be seen and just because one story might turn out to be true that doesn't mean that the next

[00:32:52] one will so so if you try to give a blind statement of just being like oh i'm a believer then that

[00:32:58] means you're just sort of like you're covering a lot of other stuff that's you don't have to

[00:33:03] like you can be believer in the stories that make sense or there's something to it and then you

[00:33:08] can be a non-believer in the ones where you know that the facts are different i hate just being

[00:33:12] kind of like supporter of like i'm a supporter of this one group that needs to blanketly believe and

[00:33:17] no i leave that to support right it's like i'm a Denver Broncos fan right which is it hurt a

[00:33:24] lot last year um and uh you know i'm i love the cooler rather for some time and um it's great

[00:33:31] not now i can go like fuck the Raiders i don't give a shit you know wow wow yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

[00:33:40] i see no problem with anything he said so far keep going all right i guess we're fighting today

[00:33:46] huh we're fighting today all right all right the any Raiders fan can beat me up that that i know but

[00:33:52] that's part of my point um they have to get strong because their team is so weak yeah exactly

[00:34:01] exactly you know what i'm not even gonna argue that you're a hundred percent correct most years

[00:34:07] gotta be a savage joke about something uh but that's what i mean that that's where we like i

[00:34:13] love that and uh that's why it's because it doesn't matter you know it's it's pretend it's a sport

[00:34:18] it's again right like we can all just say like oh we're all good and you're all bad you know because

[00:34:24] that's that's fun world participating in that to get the stupid tribal primate mind of who

[00:34:30] we used to be out of our systems yeah you two yeah yeah yeah exactly well that's my idealistic brain

[00:34:37] talking right but but when it comes to truths when it comes to like other topics that really actually

[00:34:44] matter or we're trying to discover something i think you have to be looking at both sides so yeah

[00:34:49] a very long with the different topical answer to your question but i think the gathering of stories

[00:34:55] is to cover the one basis of just being able to be like hey here's all the stories and what people

[00:35:01] said uh of like held this creature this these people founded uh you know back in the day they

[00:35:06] talked to this if it was real then the scientist came in and said well no this has a background in

[00:35:10] this and then you have this other family who says well it doesn't matter if it's real or not but

[00:35:15] actually because of it this thing happens to us etc etc etc so the story matters so you have these

[00:35:22] you know different truths that are they're fighting against each other and uh sometimes it matters

[00:35:27] sometimes it doesn't like it's that sometimes just the existence of the stories what matters

[00:35:31] and what the story means i think in that research we try to keep an open mind and if there is an

[00:35:37] opinion it's more like in where we find the value when when i said in the documentaries rather than

[00:35:42] necessarily the truth because that can be obscure and i don't want that baggage necessarily

[00:35:49] right that's fair you're with the same problem in archaeology where it's um you know you come up with

[00:35:54] the theory and then you go find try to find your evidence and uh for a long time there people would

[00:36:01] just find the evidence that fit what they wanted and then they write their paper and it was a

[00:36:06] bunch of garbage they weren't talking about all the other parts that were missing for example etc etc

[00:36:12] and it's yeah i we've talked about this several times before on the podcast in different ways but

[00:36:18] that we did not ever want to like push a certain agenda or a certain narrative when it comes to

[00:36:24] talking about history because you know i'm doing the research here's here's what happened like here's

[00:36:29] what we know happened the paranormal side of it here's the stories that go with that and i take a

[00:36:35] 14 approach so i'm like i'm not gonna say whether or not they didn't happen that's not to me here's

[00:36:40] the stories like now you decide what you think based on the evidence that we have and that's

[00:36:45] probably one of the reasons why i love side world so much is that you're doing the same thing

[00:36:51] and it's fun it's fun like um i love the history i love all the research that you guys have done

[00:36:57] and then i love the stories behind it like the terrors of the sea one has so many cool things like

[00:37:03] now i can't even have a total brain fart i can't remember the name of the the ship but it was the one

[00:37:07] where um oh gosh there was the murder on the ship and it was all the lady lovy bond yeah

[00:37:14] yeah the go ship yeah yes i had never heard that story before and that was so cool and i like how

[00:37:21] you mentioned you were like well not too much it was spoiler but you know because you could go read

[00:37:25] oh yeah whatever yeah but um but you were like they've come back again the next year to see if

[00:37:31] this is true right because it's this is something that supposedly happens every like 50 years was it

[00:37:37] yeah 10 years with that and then so that's something that might quote be able to be tracked

[00:37:41] i like those stories too because you're like okay on this day at this hour and we're gonna go

[00:37:46] to this location and we're gonna see if we can find this damn ghost i won't say what what what happened

[00:37:51] go go watch terrors of the sea watch that one first guys i'm serious just you're gonna

[00:37:55] i mean all three of them are great i will say that is my favorite one so far

[00:37:59] well great we should have made that one first then uh but

[00:38:03] here that's the right order just for me yeah yeah no no no no i get you know you're right and uh

[00:38:09] thank you very much for everything you're saying and i definitely see which one's the clever one um

[00:38:14] yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i was gonna say obviously it makes sense yeah

[00:38:21] but no no thank you thank you very much and um no it's is i think i think in terrors and

[00:38:27] it really honestly the order of uh what we made them it doesn't matter like like i said they're

[00:38:31] very interchangeable and how you watch them but um it was i find a great journey found a great

[00:38:38] journey without one because it's difficult not to talk about the horrors of the scene all these

[00:38:43] things but also not get romantic like there's something about those stories they're usually of

[00:38:49] certain period in the especially uh kind of post medieval era where where you're getting into

[00:38:55] the romanticism of the 19th century and you're getting to you know the ghost stories get into a

[00:39:00] particular way and and the the ghost ships and even the monster stories and yeah it's a wonderful

[00:39:05] topic and and uh yeah i mean we discovered a lot of stories i've never heard of and that's a

[00:39:11] really good example that one um and another one that's really good in terms of um talking about

[00:39:17] factual and fictional stuff is the story that we end on which is the the merman the the wildman

[00:39:22] of orphard where there is this like written chronicle the count of this castle where where this uh man

[00:39:28] creature man mermaid thing was found um in the sea by fishermen and then they took him to the castle

[00:39:35] and they did studies and of course they tortured them because that's how people back in the day

[00:39:40] was trying to learn things which is horrible um and the phantom raw fish and everything and

[00:39:47] then you see what happens to him in the end but but uh that was something that that it sounds so

[00:39:52] ridiculous um when you talk about mermaids and things like that of course i mean he didn't have a

[00:39:57] fish tail but he was absolutely a creature that was that was found in the sea and then his behavior but

[00:40:03] when you start to think of like well why would that be chronicle then uh uh as uh in the entry

[00:40:08] of a castle's history with everything else that happened in such detail among side how many

[00:40:14] barrels of cider were made and everything else and and uh someone made it up um and put it in there

[00:40:21] there's a lot of things that we don't know and and i think in in pairs of the sea especially

[00:40:25] there is good examples of that mindset because um on the on the point of view of crackings and giant

[00:40:31] squids we went from people knowing that they existed and believed them because they were there

[00:40:36] to like a huge period in which we all thought that was the total tail and complete bullshit

[00:40:40] to ride back now into very recently when he's this guy's like oh no all these legends the people

[00:40:45] thought it was fairy tales that's something it's a creature that actually exists and it's now

[00:40:48] scientifically proven here's some footage real quick yeah yeah yeah yeah exactly so how many more

[00:40:54] things like that are there i mean we can say that there is uh you know there is normal and

[00:41:00] paranormal there are science and and what's out there but it's at some point are we not just calling

[00:41:05] some things paranormal that the just the science is not caught up yet and and we're moving that

[00:41:11] boundary little by little you know every year so you know there will be there will be things that

[00:41:18] that's um you know sound absolutely ridiculous now that when we find out what the what's the

[00:41:23] the real reason behind it uh in the future generations it will sound mundane you are listening to

[00:41:29] an episode of mission spooky on true crime by indie drop-in network we're gonna take a quick break

[00:41:35] and back to this episode of mission spooky so here's the thing listeners um we had a slight

[00:41:43] snafu but that's okay because uh George you are episode 100 of this podcast oh my oh really

[00:41:53] yes well uh uh now i have to interrupt the podcast to to to me and the listeners to wish you

[00:41:59] a happy birthday uh uh a centennial is that what you call it uh i don't know i don't know english

[00:42:04] that well um so uh uh let's find world it's all second language so all of us and uh no honestly

[00:42:14] happy birthday guys and and well done on an awesome podcast and i wish you a hundred times a hundred

[00:42:21] more thank you a lot of work for me yes for you not me

[00:42:29] for the rest of the episode do you play a hundred times do i check it on my phone and will

[00:42:35] that be embarrassing if we do that we'll be close to how old kiki is uh hey cool back

[00:42:44] wow two in one episode jc i know i've been i've been uh m i a for a little bit so you know

[00:42:50] you know i'm not gonna lie i i know this is late but i'm really disappointed that jc didn't say

[00:42:56] a joke about kiki being the lady in the woods that remembered when the tribus day was invented

[00:43:02] like that was a perfect time jc i was thinking of saying oh that would be kiki's child first child

[00:43:09] um jc i decided not to have so disappointed i was like man you missed it and i'm not gonna tell you

[00:43:16] this is your only job on the fucking podcast well one of two but yeah well one of three i guess

[00:43:23] okay you know we know why we while you really like hex as well so that that's good

[00:43:27] that's yeah it was make make for you um i am i am the one sorry about the ending as well so but yeah

[00:43:33] it's okay it's been happening my people for a while what a hundred of years fine fine

[00:43:39] it was very realistic yeah i know now i'm gonna go have to watch hex yeah to see what we're talking

[00:43:45] about because otherwise none of this makes sense yeah jc you had one job well i did my best

[00:43:54] you can't watch all five things it's fine i did 20 percent

[00:44:02] it's got pretty good film to fall asleep too so you know i'll tell you that

[00:44:06] uh i don't know how to respond to that because like it's it's fine i mean like it's it's uh you

[00:44:15] gotta go with your angle i mean it's um it's uh it's very peaceful until we get it gets really

[00:44:21] horrible so it was cuz i just really peaceful don't wake up at the end

[00:44:27] because none of it will make any sense if you do that yeah there's a lot of build up to it

[00:44:32] yes i do like slow burn harrow so this is probably something kiki should have told me to watch this

[00:44:37] honestly i'm disappointed in kiki for not telling me she told you to watch it months ago because she

[00:44:42] told me too don't worry no i wasn't there you were definitely not no worries don't don't fight over it

[00:44:51] you can watch it and then you you'll tell us in social media how was all or next time when i

[00:44:56] when i come around to for us to talk complete shit uh we'll talk about it yeah yeah sounds good

[00:45:03] i love it so for our 100th episode we also have a really cool band they're called the flat waves

[00:45:09] they are out of Philadelphia and the song that i chose is called mothman yeah wow that was a

[00:45:18] coincidence right i genuinely didn't know that no one's gonna believe but yeah i can tell you guys

[00:45:26] and they know how kind of ridiculous i am with the way that we choose our music it was a it was a

[00:45:31] complete coincidence i couldn't believe it i was like oh so mothman's your favorite huh well

[00:45:36] yeah no no this is the first time i hear this yeah that was not a plant everyone but was genuinely

[00:45:42] weird so great something synchronicities something yes that's something mothman yeah

[00:45:49] synchronicity that's the name of man there's something something both man

[00:45:56] oh man flat waves are gonna love this i feel like i feel like that's how most like paranormal

[00:46:00] stories go something something mothman and then a bunch of people died and that's the paranormal story

[00:46:06] that's that's it written by jon keel oh that's it well flat waves hit us up we'll do a you know

[00:46:13] be great go go go Philadelphia okay so uh we're gonna take a quick break for that music and we'll

[00:46:23] we'll make it back uh we'll finish talking with George he's gonna tell us where to find all the awesome stuff

[00:46:30] uh

[00:46:41] uh

[00:46:43] a sick battle

[00:46:46] you're about to see this

[00:46:53] drive

[00:46:55] into the clouds

[00:46:57] yeah

[00:47:16] the break is now over

[00:47:20] that works yeah i'm good with that i don't think you've ever said it that way before

[00:47:24] i have it that's nice very definitive yes stand up get out of your chair

[00:47:30] unless you're driving don't stand up there now all for the national anthem

[00:47:38] break is not low

[00:47:44] you guys are a lot of two anthems and shit is and that's like an american thing oh my god

[00:47:48] yeah i know we hate it it's so dumb no our national anthem is it's why i believe in god

[00:47:57] and it's why both god believes in you is it

[00:48:02] probably because i'm like i'm an american

[00:48:09] man he's already got the mentality down he didn't he live here man

[00:48:13] he did say he was named polaro for a little bit i i was and he was so chill i have to say

[00:48:20] unironically because we're taking the piss out of america law and i know that the british audience

[00:48:25] here loves that but um but no the color i was awesome though everybody was cool was hell you know

[00:48:30] so yes it's the chillest of states you went to the chillest of p a's or of us state

[00:48:36] i have to say so many ways i was like easy mo the america you know it was so cool and i love

[00:48:43] mountains and stuff so yeah and i think they definitely have those there yeah that was great

[00:48:49] did you go to pikes peak when you were out that way no i i it was it was legitimate like work

[00:48:54] living thing i didn't go as a tourist it was like 10 years ago so i was working in uh in

[00:49:00] one of the resorts in in eagle county so um they all that area yeah sure yeah so it was it was

[00:49:09] awesome but yeah i i learned a lot about myself and some about the states mainly that one

[00:49:17] because it's 15 50 different countries actually um mean it should be

[00:49:23] yeah because like people see it is like this one the malgamist like he ha like place where

[00:49:28] it's not really just not all taxes just because i have a cowboy hat and a collection of cowboy

[00:49:36] boots does not mean that the entirety of us a taxes but but i i i i love something about each

[00:49:42] and every one place not i mean well one of my favorite directors know the fair one is martin

[00:49:45] scorsese so new york as well like everything there and how much he loves it yet shits on it

[00:49:51] nuts that's i love that you know i feel like that's how true new yorkers show their love

[00:49:58] is a shit all over yeah but we're not from new york don't fucking say shit

[00:50:04] well yeah no George can say shit about new york it's well i mean like generally that's how new

[00:50:10] yorkers are you're allowed to don't care i'm not from new york he's made it in as a an honorary

[00:50:16] northeastern now i fall here you see got from philly either well like i said earlier i love i love

[00:50:24] everyone there there's good and bad everywhere it just depends on depends on the person i believe

[00:50:29] not in philly there's only bad i mean it's not way of thinking yeah

[00:50:36] well like you know like there was one song called the streets of philly nothing it was about an

[00:50:41] AIDS movie so how you know yeah how bad is that like that's what you relate to uh

[00:50:50] thank hey thank god for whichever god that you want to choose for um elton john

[00:50:57] philly doff you freedom yeah yeah fine like good song about philly yes probably i think it's the only one

[00:51:04] actually how how can you tell elton john never went to villidoff yeah

[00:51:14] oh we got it we got to ask him if i could get elton john on this podcast

[00:51:21] hook us up hook us up George pretty big yeah i'll try i have about like maybe a

[00:51:27] maybe a degree or two of kevin bacon to elton john so um we'll do our best don't you know

[00:51:34] all british people living in yes that's how it works that's exactly how it works

[00:51:41] uh yeah yeah it's soon soon you're working working on it i'm working on it for sure

[00:51:49] i was i was at the thing there was this event where elton john was was at but i don't you know

[00:51:54] we didn't really talk moth man you know what i mean

[00:51:58] god dang yeah i do wonder what his favorite crypt it is that is that is my now question for everyone

[00:52:07] fatwood's monster i could see it yeah there's a lot of pizzazz in the flatwoods

[00:52:14] yes something something garish you have to be something with with a lot of uh

[00:52:19] flare okay so we can find hex and drooping and haunted forests of england and terrors of the sea

[00:52:28] and damnation village where yeah so if you want to if you want to follow all of our films uh you can

[00:52:35] go on most platforms but on twitter will be at rubicon films uk um and if you're interest

[00:52:42] particularly in the side world series of the documentaries you can go at side world uk and then

[00:52:48] you'll be able to find recon films also on on on facebook and then on on instagram and sideworld

[00:52:54] is also has an awesome group on on facebook too um if you're a boomer and then a bunch of other

[00:53:02] places i'm also one twitter at the at the george pop-off um so i do pop off sometimes there um and then

[00:53:12] that's mleha yeah indeed and that's mostly it no no yeah where everywhere just just google

[00:53:18] sideworld if you if you if you want to follow up on the documentaries and then yeah rubicon films

[00:53:22] or myself we'll take you to um get our future feature films you can watch them on um sideworld is

[00:53:29] on i think all of them will be on toby um which um it's great and then and a bunch of other places

[00:53:37] amazon prime if you're into that kind of stuff uh oh there you go yeah yeah on amazon on on roku

[00:53:47] you have so many platforms in america i'm on the bajelos there's a there's a bunch so yeah we have

[00:53:53] freedom over here yeah exactly exactly we call that freedom over here so you you you can watch

[00:54:00] sideworld on the freedom channel um as well that is actually a freedom channel

[00:54:09] i'm so fucking stupid

[00:54:17] i can't believe you actually said he fell right into that trap

[00:54:20] i'm sorry

[00:54:25] he's subscribing today

[00:54:30] don't worry we also think it's fucking stupid dude

[00:54:32] oh sorry

[00:54:35] getting getting shot by an era 15

[00:54:37] oh man

[00:54:45] now if you if you listen to all my other podcasts like i shit on british people and i bond with

[00:54:50] americans so this was funny i didn't mean to laugh so much about the freedom channel

[00:54:56] so if you don't know if you're fine if if you shit on british people then i have to ask

[00:55:02] yes since i was making a joke before you came on uh you eat beans on toast for breakfast

[00:55:09] yeah what's your favorite british delicacy you like do you enjoy beans on toast in the morning

[00:55:15] hours or well it's funny you say that because like we were at this this event when

[00:55:23] out when we're doing at the nation village screening and then there was a q and a after that

[00:55:27] and you know the whole crew we went and um and then afterwards we were talking about that

[00:55:34] and i said that that's one way how i differed from the rest of them because like i don't consider

[00:55:38] putting some beans from a can on a toast uh a meal and they tried to convince me with very

[00:55:45] eloquent language and i just wouldn't have it i said i'm i'm i'm dropping this conversation

[00:55:50] because i just couldn't do it how do you speak eloquently of canned beans that's that's

[00:55:55] british that's what they do they take something that's incredibly simple and anyone just goes

[00:56:00] duh and they talk about it as if it's like the bees needs like that's that's just that's just it

[00:56:07] you know used to conquer the world at some point now they just have been beans on toast

[00:56:12] so oh how the mighty has fallen

[00:56:19] and they need a bulgurkin guy to go into their folklore so you know this is how this is how it is

[00:56:24] so i'm joking all of that is just ribbing i obviously love the country um as well that's

[00:56:30] what i'm here but that like again like if i sound like a broken record i really apologize

[00:56:34] everyone but that goes with every country there's something i love and joke about every single one

[00:56:38] of them and the ones i joke about the most are the ones that i definitely have a i feel like a

[00:56:43] family member i feel like it's somewhere i've been and you know it's it's it's it's it's deserves

[00:56:49] the honor of joking about it you know so i love all these places and there's great people everywhere

[00:56:56] but uh yeah like laughing about all of our stupid things i said it early about bulgur we talk about

[00:57:01] america but yeah UK has a few of them and and and gajdarn and his beans on toast one of them so

[00:57:10] i don't know like with a hundred year war a hundred year war with friends they too didn't take any

[00:57:14] of that you know they didn't none of the the french bread for the toast this yeah I don't know

[00:57:21] that's that's about it but um but the french didn't learn about sense of humor though so you know

[00:57:26] that's probably a good tradeoff so it's fine did the british yeah oh yeah okay any hit

[00:57:38] yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah since since the humor wise i think the british there is there

[00:57:43] there's a there's a bunch i think it's it's it's like well this this is the fun part because you

[00:57:47] guys like sound a lot of of like like art of the british humor that i like you know which is there

[00:57:52] is a lot of uh funny self-deprecating i think it's the philadelphia thing i think that's the old europe

[00:57:59] you know yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

[00:58:03] you know people don't like us very much this but they don't have to like us because we know we're

[00:58:07] better than them no one hates us more than ourselves that's true that's true and that that that that

[00:58:16] that i really like and uh we should when there's like an easter versus west sort of like stupid

[00:58:21] conversation because obviously boggare used to be on on the on the wrong side of the iron curtain

[00:58:26] and um with these days when someone says something stupid like you know you know in the west there

[00:58:31] is a bunch of bullshit and i'm like yes yes there is but they say it first right you know you can

[00:58:37] do that even though the stupid things keep happening um but but but like one of the most amazing

[00:58:45] anti-american in terms of not not the sentiment not the spirit of it but in terms of the government

[00:58:51] right the the silly things that the government can do some of the best ones are are american

[00:58:57] works of art right you know like all through the 70s all my favorite films are basically

[00:59:03] shitting on the government like so yeah and and and and the every country every country that

[00:59:10] that really really kind of looks and like the best people honestly not to get too philosophical

[00:59:15] again but but uh you know are the ones who look inwards and go like oh am i am i am i a bad person

[00:59:23] is this bad are we the baddies yeah yeah are we the baddies exactly exactly and I think every

[00:59:30] country especially if it thinks itself as being great like this you know Britain and things it is

[00:59:36] in the US and all these all these big ones that i've been watching from the side as a kid like

[00:59:41] if it really is is big and important like one of the most important things that kind of uh

[00:59:47] earns those stripes I think it's it's looking inwards and saying what kind of an example are we setting

[00:59:52] so yeah I think that's that's the the biggest pro western democracy thing we can say and then

[00:59:58] and keep shooting on it until we get it right I again it's probably the the elistic part of

[01:00:03] you but i think there is a research and so of of all the cool people like i see them more and more

[01:00:08] in the world like as all of us just liking each other as individuals rather than who's born

[01:00:13] where than doing what so we just love the things we love and yeah and um you know to send more

[01:00:20] like like a that final thing again thanks for having me because it's been great oh absolutely

[01:00:25] and you are like a 10,000 times over allowed to come back anytime you want we love talking with you

[01:00:32] oh thank you all right guys so as always stay spooky and don't die but if you do contact us

[01:00:40] yeah just um while we're on that topic just ring the liberty bell and uh we'll hear you

[01:00:55] you

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