High Strangeness in Chicago by Ghost Story Guys

[00:00:00] Listener discretion is advised. Hello and welcome to Scary Time, the podcast that helps you find new, emerging and undiscovered scary and paranormal podcasts. I'm Greg, the host and curator of Scary Time. Today's episode is from the Ghost Stories Guys.

[00:00:18] The Ghost Stories Guys cover true stories of the strange and unusual, told with humor, humanity, and just a hint of skepticism. I think you'll really like this episode. It's called High Strangeness in Chicago, and it's all about the bizarre stories of Chicago, which is pretty fun.

[00:00:38] As always, you can send me a tweet at IndieDrop-In and let me know what kind of scary and paranormal stuff you like, and I'll find those podcasts to feature right on this show. If you liked today's episode, make sure to check out the episode description for

[00:00:53] links to subscribe. All right, let's get this show started. Begin. Hold hands and close your eyes. It's half past midnight, and you're listening to the Ghost Story Guys. Welcome to the Ghost Story Guys. I'm Brenna Storr. I'm Paul Bestowl.

[00:01:31] And this is the show where we talk about spooks, specters, and all the other things watching us from the shadows beyond the campfire. Some conversations only make sense after the sun has set, and this is most definitely one. Thanks for tuning in. I'm Paul Bestowl, and I'm from 147.

[00:01:46] And as always, we're coming from that tiny mountain cabin you'd dream about but can never quite reach. Paul, my friend, how are you? I'm very well. I have survived watching 12 minutes of killer pinata, and I am here to tell you not to do the same.

[00:02:02] Yeah, I was going to say, I don't know how much of you survived, but you are physically here if not spiritually. Yes. A little bit of me died during those 12 minutes, but thankfully I pulled it back

[00:02:12] from the brink, and I will be marching onwards discovering even more worst films out there now to help with the course of the next few weeks. It is the season. It is the season.

[00:02:24] This is actually a really bad transition, but I want to get it out of the way now. It seems really tasteless, but I don't intend it to be. You're going to sell us vitamins. Yeah, yeah, I've got some... Oh boy, you wouldn't believe some of the crap that...

[00:02:38] Anyways, yeah. We were approached recently by someone. I won't say who, but the answer was no. Did that end up being with A? It began with F is what it begins with. It is briefly just again, get out of the way now.

[00:02:53] It's a sad day in Canadian film, Paul, because it was just reported before coming on air that Mick Moff filmmaker Jeff Barnaby, who made the brilliant zombie film Blood Quantum, he just died after a year-long battle with cancer. Oh.

[00:03:07] Yeah, he was based out of here in Montreal and folks, if you haven't seen Blood Quantum, I haven't seen his first film. I want to say it was Rimes for Young Ghouls. I have not seen that, but Blood Quantum was very, very good and very promising of great

[00:03:20] things to come. And it's a real tragedy that of course, not only that the family has lost a husband and a father, but that we are deprived of his future work. So again, our hearts go out to the Barnaby family.

[00:03:32] And again, I don't know the man personally, but I... Again, he's a Canadian filmmaker and I quite liked his film. So that's the shits. Yes, especially following on the sad demise of the marvelous Angela Lansbury as well. Of course. Yeah, it's been a rough week, man.

[00:03:48] So if you need to come back from Killer Pignata, anyone who happens to have watched it for whatever reason... Don't do it. Yeah, don't do it. But if you have done it and you think you're wandering in a daze, go watch Blood Quantum, it's much better.

[00:04:03] It will bring you back. It's on Shutter and again, to be paying respects to a talented man who was taken from us far too early. All right. So moving on from that, the show today, I'm very excited for the show, Paul.

[00:04:17] This is something that kind of came together at the last minute, but I don't know how we haven't done it before because I keep trying to put together an Astral Spider show. I keep trying and it's just not happening. I can't find enough stories.

[00:04:29] I can't find enough information, enough good stories because there's a lot of cuckoo banana stories out there, we'll say. My very subtle way of putting it. Yes, yeah, you're nodding. You understand. You've seen this stuff. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Very tasteful gesture Paul just made.

[00:04:44] Yeah, there's a lot of wankery out there on the subject of Astral Spiders. But we are going to be doing the haunting of Chicago, high strangeness in Chicago and I am so excited about the show and it's primarily because, well

[00:04:58] one, again, we haven't done Chicago yet, but two, we actually managed to put together a really varied assortment of stories. It's not just shadows. It's not just, you know, noises in the night. There is some truly unique stuff coming up in this episode.

[00:05:13] I think one of the ones that disturbed me the most and of course you'll hear this soon folks was Hunger Underground. And that is a story that again, I think is unlike anything we've told on this show and so I am very, very much looking forward to

[00:05:27] getting into that. But before any of that, I got to say I had my own weird experience. It's been a long time since I've had something paranormal happen to me, Paul. And you know, I got to say if it's a long time before it happens

[00:05:41] again, not going to be sad about it. Yes, and I'm not surprised. So basically listeners what happened is, of course, I'm living in Montreal now until the end of December and a friend of mine took me out for a drive a few nights ago and we drove through

[00:05:58] a lot of different little communities kind of outside Montreal and when it came back, you know, went home, crashed out and I had a terrible nightmare. And nightmares are actually not something I've been having since being here, which has been very nice.

[00:06:12] But this was a very disturbing nightmare and the content of it is not really important. But what is important is that I woke up from that nightmare and I remember I woke up, I was laying on my left side

[00:06:24] and my apartment is on the 28th floor and I tend to sleep with the blind open. So there's this construction site just across the street for me, which usually lights up my apartment pretty good. So I woke up laying on my left side thinking to myself,

[00:06:38] well, that sucked. And I went to go roll over on my back and there was what I can only describe and now it was a very quick thing. So I'm willing, I'm willing to concede maybe it was my imagination, but I don't think it was.

[00:06:53] There appeared to be a hooded shadow figure standing over me in bed and it was shit scary. I gasped, I actually gasped out loud. And as I did the best thing I can, it's like it shrunk. It's like it had been a projection. Yeah.

[00:07:10] And it just shrunk back from like a full-size thing standing over me to just gone. Oh. And again, bear in mind there is an open, not open window, but like a totally unobstructed window with light coming through it. So there's nothing that would have cast a shadow.

[00:07:28] And as I said, it was gone and my door was locked or my door was closed. I keep a towel against the bottom of the door to sort of keep out the draft and kind of help cut down on outside noise when I'm recording.

[00:07:40] And if someone say one of my roommates had come in and just decided to stand over me breathing heavily, I don't think they could have moved that fast. And if they did, they couldn't have put the towel back in place where it is. So baffling, absolutely baffling.

[00:07:57] And my only, the only possible explanation I can conjure is that recently a listener wrote in to say that while I'm here, that here's some haunted places to check out in Montreal. And one of them, they said that the small town of Lachine is very haunted.

[00:08:14] And that night, roughly around midnight, maybe a little bit later, we drove through Lachine. So I don't, maybe something hopped on for a ride and decided they liked my apartment, which, hey, you know, fine. I dig that. I like it too.

[00:08:29] But I don't know, man, but it was, that was striking and that it's been a long time since that's happened. Yeah. Do you remember seeing a face or any sort of clothing or was it just a sort of shape? Just a shape.

[00:08:41] I would say that the only distinctive feature is it didn't look, again, it was all very quick. So I'm hesitant to put too much on it because again, I don't want to, I don't want to be building something out of nothing.

[00:08:52] But if I had to, if I had to swear to it, I would say it looked like it was wearing a hood of some kind. It didn't look like a person's head. It looked like, like a big black robe would look in shadow, but it was all shadow.

[00:09:05] There was no feature whatsoever. So I, that's all I would say for certain. That and it shrunk back. You know, it wasn't like blinking, it was gone. It was like, like I got, like something sucked it away. You know? Like a paranormal hoover. Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

[00:09:23] Yeah. Like the ghost busters had kicked in my door and gotten down to work. Good for that. Yeah. Sadly not what happened. And again, not my, you know, my very friendly Russian roommate breathing heavily over me, which I guess is a good thing.

[00:09:41] On the flip side of that, I did have this one very creepy experience that had nothing to do with the paranormal. I came home from seeing a horror movie a little while ago. I went to go see a double feature of Pearl and Barbarian,

[00:09:52] both of which are very good. And if you do go see Barbarian, do not watch trailers. Just go see it. But I had a bit of an anxiety attack after leaving Barbarian. And by the time I got home, you know, I was,

[00:10:04] I was in it and I thought, okay, well, time to go to bed. You're safely on the 28th floor. No one's going to bother you here. Open the door to my apartment. It's pitch black inside, which it always is because no one ever turns on lights in here.

[00:10:16] And I hear this, this Slavic voice from out in the dark. Do you have a weapon? And I thought, oh shit, this is my funny games moment. This is my The Strangers moment. Then I thought, wait, he likes to play video games

[00:10:36] with his friends late at night when he's wearing headphones. Maybe I just wandered in at exactly the wrong time. And then I waited. And yes, that's what was going on. He was playing video games on, you know, talking on Discord with his friends.

[00:10:48] But for that brief second, Paul, I felt, well, that's it. Game over. This is how I go out. Do you have a weapon? Bye. But thankfully I am still here. And that's good because it's about the time we thanked our patrons. This one's for the patrons.

[00:11:11] Patrons, you are the John Wick to our pencil because you are what make us truly dangerous. For real though, guys, patrons without you, the show doesn't go. Everyone who listens to the ghost story, guys, helps makes us who we are.

[00:11:28] But patrons are the ones who allow the show to continue. You pay the bills, you pay our bills. And so thank you, thank you, thank you. And of course, we'd like to thank all our patrons, but we'd especially like to thank our latest patrons. They are Julia Fristead.

[00:11:44] Ingrid Lossam. Cheaper than therapy. Selena. Dee Dee Lati. Tara Reffner. Very good, well done. Ben Jackson-Link. Zellie Thomas. And Helen Napolitano. Again, thank you so, so much from the bottom of our terrible, terrible hearts. And if you listen to the end of the show,

[00:12:04] we'll tell you about all the cool shit you get. But we will say if you join up for a dollar a month at patreon.com slash ghost story, guys, you don't have to listen ads. And who doesn't like that? Ads suck. But for everything else again,

[00:12:16] we'll tell you about that at the end of the show. And for now, just say thank you so, so much. All right, just before the break, shout out to our composer Rainy Days for Ghosts. Rainy Days for Ghosts is a project of film journalist and composer Jerry Smith.

[00:12:31] And they are currently accepting commissions. So if you'd like to hire Jerry for your next project, send an email to rainydaysforghosts at gmail.com. All right, so we're gonna take a little break, come back with some email, and then it's time for High Strangeness in Chicago. Welcome back.

[00:12:58] As we said before the break, the theme of this episode is High Strangeness in Chicago. And I do love Chicago. I've not spent nearly enough time there, but I'm looking forward to getting into those stories. Of course, before we do that,

[00:13:11] we gotta take a look in the mail. Our courteous and efficient staff is on call 24 hours a day to serve all your supernatural elimination needs. We're ready to believe you. And Paul, before we start the mail, I have to say, and we're not gonna mention specifics,

[00:13:25] but fuck you for recommending that book to me. I said the author was nice, didn't mention the book. Well, I am gonna parse those sentences much more carefully because I actually signed up for Audible again so I could get the audiobook. And the first couple hours,

[00:13:41] I sent you a message and said, oh, I'm really enjoying this. And then it takes a turn and I thought what the fuck is wrong with Paul? And somebody spoke and you said, oh, no, to clarify, the author was nice. Oh, okay, well, lovely.

[00:13:55] Boy, I wish I'd read that more carefully. Hmm, just to make you got frightened by the Satanist. Well, I got frightened by something. Ha! Frightened by the fact I spent my Audible credit for the month on this crap. Not the fact that it cost me 15 bucks.

[00:14:10] I mean, that's bad enough, but more so that I just feel like it's gonna encourage this person to make more books. Ha! Good Lord. I guess if someone's buying their book, there's hope for mine yet. Yes, well, you see, I can't be right all the time, you know?

[00:14:25] When I recommend things like Snow Beast and Boggy Creek, you know? I guess, I guess I should have rule of threes that. Oh, those are both great. This is gonna be like a giant steaming turd on my breakfast plate. Are we gonna about this film called Killer Pignata?

[00:14:42] Not falling for that again. You go watch Devil Rider, I'll watch Killer Pignata, I swear. I've got plenty of rubbish to watch this month. Thank you very much. Yes, yes, me too. Me too, I've got... Anyways, we'll move on. This is not the horror movie show.

[00:15:02] Not this week. No, that's it. Yeah, we spent an hour, actually an hour and 15 minutes before recording talking about that, so I suppose we should move on. So our first piece of mail is from Fiona. And Fiona, this is, I love the brevity.

[00:15:15] She says, loving these longer episodes, thanks. And thank you. I'm happy to like them. You know, every now and again, I go through this little crisis of faith where I think, oh, shit, should I, should the shows be shorter? You know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:15:28] And then after a while, I just realized, no, no, this is the show, the show is the show, and you either like it or you don't, and that's okay. Although we will be offering something for people who just want ghost stories.

[00:15:38] Of course, we have Book of the Dead, which comes out every other week. And that's just three ghost stories, no chat, all read by me. But also starting soonish, we are gonna have, and we haven't come up with a name for it yet,

[00:15:49] but we're sort of thinking about the digest shows. And basically, it's the same week as Book of the Dead. Say you get Book of the Dead Tuesday on Thursday, you're going to get an older episode. So starting with episode 101, how much is that ghost dog in the window?

[00:16:04] You will get that episode, but just the stories clipped out from the episode. So the stories with a brand new introduction, and yeah, and they'll probably run about however long the story is run, and they will be free for everyone on the main ghost story guys, RSS feed.

[00:16:19] So keep an eye out for those. Again, I'm not quite sure when they'll drop. We're still working on the format a little bit, but yeah, just a little more, another way for you to get your ghost story guys fix.

[00:16:29] If you are, well, if you just want some stories or if you're in a hurry. And then of course, the main show will always be entirely too long because by God, we just like talking to each other. Ha ha ha. Sharona writes,

[00:16:42] Hey there, just started listening a couple of weeks ago. So I'm way far behind. But as a native of Pennsylvania who grew up hearing stories of Centrelia, I, unlike most of my friends, never visited. I felt the same way about it as you did Brennan,

[00:16:58] too intrusive into the lives of people still holding on to all they have. I appreciated this episode. Also, I had a weird bit of synchronicity with Brennan's feeling of being home in Pennsylvania. Except for me, it was when I lived in Cleveland, Ohio.

[00:17:15] Glad I'm not the only weirdo who feels these things. Can't wait to catch up on the rest of the episodes. Thanks for making the workday and my drive home tolerable. Take care. Well, thank you very much, Sharona. Yeah, I mean, I did obviously, I did go to Centrelia.

[00:17:31] So I was not as respectful as I perhaps could have been, but we didn't stay. And I never took it. I didn't take any pictures. I think we were there for maybe 15 minutes and then we left because yeah, it's, you know,

[00:17:43] you just gawk into people who are trying to live their lives and it felt kind of gross. Have you ever had that though? Paul, have you ever been somewhere and you thought this feels like home sometime, maybe even a little bit more than home in a weird way?

[00:17:55] I mean, obviously I'm not a native of Sheffield and I felt instantly connected to the place the very first time I visited. Oh, okay, fair enough. And that's why I moved here. You seem very of the place now. I can't imagine, if you told me you were moving,

[00:18:09] I would be very surprised. I'd be very surprised or I'd been arrested. Well, I mean, that I would not necessarily be surprised by, but yeah. Been a long time since I've been arrested. Thank you very much. Not happened this century. Oh, fantastic. There's a number of things

[00:18:25] that have not been happening this century. Again, that's not gonna make a lot of sense to you guys because that was a pre-call thing. So let's move on. Yes. No, I have to say I'm very intrigued with Centralia primarily as a monument to man's arrogance.

[00:18:43] Yeah, yeah, it really is that. And of course, if you folks aren't familiar Centralia is a small town or was a small town in Pennsylvania where a trash flare at the dump ignited an underground coal mine. I guess all coal mines are underground.

[00:18:56] It ignited the coal, the sort of remainders of the coal underneath the town and it has been burning for, I wanna say 50 years. Something goes to that. Yeah, it's around that. The town itself is, there's maybe, I think like 15 people living there or something.

[00:19:12] And yeah, you can go there, but you know, don't. I mean, just let's leave them alone. But yeah, so and that was Centralia and the tyranny of memory where I talked about that. Although again, we didn't talk about it too long.

[00:19:24] That was a bonus episode way back in the day. All right, so next up is from Rin. Rin is a longtime listener, a friend of mine, you know, friend of the show, very supportive of everything we've done. And Rin, this is actually a little bit of a story.

[00:19:39] Rin says, hey there, Brendan and Paul. So it was sunny but cool and I was sitting in my comfy chair facing the window which was letting in a shaft of sunlight. My TV is on the same wall as the window and I was watching it.

[00:19:51] Below the TV at the footboard of my bed, there was suddenly a light that drew my attention. It looked like a flashlight beam. The sun wasn't involved because the sun was at a 45 degree angle from the sunlight. I glanced back at the light

[00:20:04] and it was still creeping up the footboard. The only place this could have originated was behind the end of a large wooden box. We used to call them hope chests. Do I have tiny little security men? I stood up and the light went out

[00:20:15] before I could lean forward to see what was making it. Just carpet, it wasn't even warm. This happened yesterday. I don't know how a light can shine at that spot. The angle is all wrong. To get a light to shine in from the window,

[00:20:27] they would have to climb a tree, get on a limb far enough that the leaves aren't in the way of the light. Oh, the trees? They're in a steep gully. I look forward to what you might think. And Rin, I honestly don't know. That's a puzzler.

[00:20:40] Any thoughts Paul? No, I'm completely baffled. It seems very unusual. It reminds me a little bit of your sort of window experience when you were a kid, you know, that suddenly there's a light on the wall and you're kind of watching it.

[00:20:53] Watching the gnomes go about their daily business. Yeah, yeah, a little bit like a very sort of, you know, minute version of that, but yeah. Yeah, I was thinking about that the other night. The more I think about that event, the more it unsettles me. Yeah, no kidding.

[00:21:10] You know, in retrospect, the story we told on the, what episode was it? We told the story about the person who saw something projected on the back of a street sign. Oh, and... I thought it was the last episode, but that wouldn't make sense

[00:21:26] because last episode was a haunting of the Queen Mary. Yeah, it wasn't that one. Must have been Ghost Dogs and Shadow Man. But anyways, it just occurred to me now that story of people looked like seeing someone's window projected on a street sign,

[00:21:39] but a street sign in the middle of nowhere where there's nothing to project. It's kind of similar to what happened to you. Yeah, yeah, very... I mean, I still don't understand it. It still doesn't make any sense at all. And the fact to watch it for so long.

[00:21:55] Well, that's it. And it clearly wasn't a dream and yeah, it doesn't make any kind of logical... I mean, demons obviously, based on that fucking rookie record I ended up with. Yeah, crazy. Really is one of those weird things that happens in my childhood.

[00:22:14] So, Rin, yeah, I'm sorry we can't shed more light on it, but I do know there is actually next episode. We do have something similar in that episode. There is a similar story. It's not exactly the same, but yeah. So when the next episode comes out,

[00:22:29] you know, two weeks hence, which is going to be, I think, about airports and planes. There is something in there which maybe might ping a little bit close to this. And of course, if you see anything else, please let us know. Next up is Zach.

[00:22:44] Hey, Brennan, can't wait for your book to be re-released. Woo! But I wanted to tell you about something weird that happened to me when I was in middle school. When I was in sixth or seventh grade, I was helping out my mom at her work during spring break.

[00:23:00] She was a preschool teacher at a very old church in a little town named Woodland in California. She had asked me to go downstairs into the basement and grab her purse, which she had left in one of the closets they used for storage.

[00:23:13] As I was coming out, I flipped the light off and instantly felt this fear rush over my body. As I looked over my shoulder, I saw two very tall shadow figures looking towards me from around the corner. I run like hell out of the basement.

[00:23:28] I told my mom about it and she told me it was my eyes playing tricks on me. Fast forward a few hours and I'm helping clean up while we wait for the last few kids to be picked up and out of the corner of my eye,

[00:23:39] I see the same shadow figure walk past the door. I immediately jump up to find my mom and when I got to her she was wide-eyed because she had seen the same thing. She looked at me and said, we'll talk about this later.

[00:23:54] And as she was putting the period on early sentence, a little boy walks up and asks if that tall man who walked by was his dad. My mom, who was terrified at this point, walked through the whole church looking to see if anyone was there

[00:24:08] and there was absolutely no one. Ever since then, I never went back into that church and I never will. So, Zach, thank you for sharing that. And I know we spoke a little bit because he sent this in via Instagram and I know Woodland is actually

[00:24:23] a pretty well-known haunted town. I think that the whole town burned down at one point. Yes, there's one of those, ironically we're talking about Chicago which is another major city in the US that essentially burned to the ground, wasn't it? Yeah, of course.

[00:24:37] So, yeah, no, Zach, thank you for sharing that and I do not blame you for going back into that church. All right, so we have one last PC email. It's technically a little story, but whatever. We're gonna read it anyways.

[00:24:49] This is sort of like, this is a foreplay. We're just getting all good and ghosty before we get into the stories themselves. That's what this is for. Some people have said, why the fuck do you have email at the front of the show? That's why.

[00:24:57] It's called foreplay, look it up. Parasexual. There you see, thank you, that's my new band name. And out of words that the makers of the new Hellraiser film are familiar with, but anyways, that was not nearly as horny a movie as it should have been, but moving on.

[00:25:18] This last message for today is from Jennifer. I was sleeping one night in the little apartment to my husband at the time and I lived in. I woke not sure of the time, looked around the room and I saw a large dark cloaked figure standing in my doorway.

[00:25:32] I couldn't see the face, just a large dark hood. I think it must have been six and a half to seven feet tall. I remember thinking, please don't hurt my husband. Not sure why this was my reaction, however it was. Then for reasons I can't explain,

[00:25:44] I rolled over and faced away from the figure. As I looked the direction I am now facing, the figure quickly appears in front of me. I then felt scared but closed my eyes and fell asleep. To this day, I'm not sure if it was a dream.

[00:25:58] And Jennifer, thanks for sharing that funny enough or I don't know if it's funny or not, but coincidentally she sent that in just as maybe a day or two after I had my own experience. Little bit of a synchronicity there, but yeah it's fascinating.

[00:26:11] We sometimes we see these things and we don't treat them maybe with as much alarm as we probably should. As I said, the first time I had a shadow person encounter myself, I fell asleep again. They touched me and then I fell asleep.

[00:26:24] And that's actually why the one that happened in my bedroom here was a little bit more anomalous because I really, I'm not to say I freaked out, but I mean I forced myself to stay awake cause I thought no way I'm going back to sleep.

[00:26:36] And so I stayed up the next like 45 minutes reading movie reviews cause you know, big old handsome nerd. But sometimes you just go right back to sleep and I think sometimes I don't necessarily think we have a choice in that Paul.

[00:26:49] I do think that there is something about these figures which maybe allows them to influence us in some way. Yeah, very much so. I find it often unusual when people have very strange reactions to, if you see somebody in your room the usual thing is you challenged them

[00:27:06] but most people like Jennifer there and please don't hurt my husband whereas most people who say please take them not me. Well you're any young man, take my wife please. Looked that one up kids, ask your grandparents. More, better off asking a weed you bone I think.

[00:27:28] So thank you for sharing that Jennifer and thank you to everyone who wrote in. Again if you wanna send us a message, comment, question, you know story, ghost story guys at gmail.com is the way to do it. You can also send it as a voice note

[00:27:39] so record it using your phone and attach it to an email. Of course we will be discontinuing the ghost line after the 22nd of this month. So if you do wanna send a story in that way which some people have done and will be sharing on future shows

[00:27:51] we would love to hear them. We'd love to hear your voices, love to hear your stories. And again send all of that to ghoststoryguys at gmail.com. And just before we get to the stories do you sort of any personal thoughts on Chicago Yourself Paul?

[00:28:06] In terms of haunting any, I mean obviously there's a lot of famous haunting in Chicago. You know, you and I were talking off air about Adam Seltzer's various books on the subject and things like Resurrection Mary but anything that particularly jumped out at you?

[00:28:20] In Chicago, you can't start anywhere without discussing the old hair incident of 2006 with the UFO that was sighted above the airport. I was hoping you would bring that up. Yes, please go on. So you can search out the audio. The audio is out there

[00:28:40] from people who were calling the control tower saying asking people if they'd seen anything pilots were reporting it. All that audio is available out there. It was dismissed as a certain type of cloud which is one of those ludicrous explanations that seems to ignore everything

[00:29:01] that everybody who saw it says. So it was seen by pilots, ground crew and I think some air traffic did actually admit to seeing it so it happened in November 2006 and has become a bit of a holy grail in the world of modern UFOlogy

[00:29:20] because there is allegedly photographic evidence. I wondered if there was, because I mean, oh hair is not exactly a sleepy airport. No, no, not at all. Do you have any sense of what the visual was like when people saw this?

[00:29:35] Yeah, it was supposed to be a giant circular object. People said that's what was so stunning about it was how large it was. I remember when that happened. I was never seeing it on the news. I should pardon me, I read about it in the newspaper

[00:29:48] and again, look that up kids. But... And I wasn't really as much into this stuff back then. I was aware of it but I didn't really have a sense of it but I remember thinking like, oh shit, maybe there's something to this UFO stuff

[00:30:00] because how do you dismiss something that so many different people have seen? And then of course, as you said, they managed to fucking dismiss it but it sounds like the dismissal is pretty thin. I mean, even one of the air traffic controllers

[00:30:16] when somebody rings him, they say that. Have you been drinking? Really? Three o'clock in the afternoon, she's at work. I think if she's drinking, the last thing she should be doing is joking about it. She's working in an airport, mate. So I think it's a very tantalizing situation.

[00:30:30] I've always been very intrigued because of the witnesses and the fact that the audio is out there. It doesn't take much if you just search our airport UFO witnesses, you'll find it. I'll try to put a link in the show notes to that

[00:30:43] because again, it's a very, very interesting case and as we've said so many times in the show, I just don't think you can discuss one kind of high strangeness while ignoring the others. Hmm, no, absolutely. Chicago's got loads of really great areas which sometimes people don't talk about.

[00:30:59] It's like Robinson Woods just outside of Chicago. It's near our hair iPod, strangely enough. And tell us a little bit about Robinson Woods. So Robinson Woods is supposed to be the most haunted area of Woodland in the Northern US.

[00:31:13] It is infamous for people being chased by strange lights and hearing crying voices and children and people feeling that small hands cut their hands as they walk through the woods. Oh, wow. It's been reported for decades around there, Robinson Woods.

[00:31:28] And it's a place where it's got a lot of strange history and a lot of bloodshed there and stolen Native American ground that was then given back to them as a gift. Here's that land back that we stole from you type situation. You're welcome. Yeah, thanks.

[00:31:46] So it's a very spooky area that has had numerous reports for a very long period of time. So if you ever want a frightening hike, Robinson Woods is the place to go in Illinois. Ha ha ha! We are not to be blamed for this.

[00:32:02] Just for the record, if you do this, tell us about it, but you also cannot blame us for anything happening. Ha ha ha ha ha ha! I mean, I'm not surprised Chicago is haunted. Obviously the city burnt down it has a history of bloodshed going all sorts.

[00:32:16] But did you know that the greatest loss of life on the Great Lakes occurred in Chicago as well? I did not. The SS, or was it the Endurance? Eastland, the SS Eastland. Okay. Okay. Do you want to hear this horrific story?

[00:32:35] Hell yes. It's a horrific story coming from Paul Bestel. Hell yes, I want to hear it. Okay. So in July 1915, the Great Western Electric Company were organizing a workers picnic and they'd got loads of ships in the harbor ready to take them across Lake Michigan

[00:32:54] to where they were going to take them all for this. Wonderful picnic for all their employees as a thank you. And the SS Eastland was overloaded considerably. And it's one of those ships that when you look into its history,

[00:33:08] it's always had a bit of bad luck associated with it. Oh, okay. And it was moored in dock, wasn't traveling across Lake Michigan and it flipped whilst it was in dock. That's what happens. And 844 people were killed. Oh my God. Because they were trapped, they couldn't get out.

[00:33:32] Wow. The ship capsized. And so it's one of those places where things like that get overlooked because everybody focuses on, you know, the mobsters and gangsters from the 20s and 30s and the stranger things that have happened in late years.

[00:33:48] And then obviously you've got the weird flying humanoid figures that have been going on for the last 20 years. But when you look at that kind of event of a ship in dock that flips, I'm always surprised that more people don't know about that

[00:34:01] because that's a horrendous, horrendous loss of life. You know, when you think how many people died on the Titanic three years earlier and everybody knows about the Titanic, but I bet hardly anybody outside of that area of Chicago knows anything about the SS Eastland.

[00:34:16] I wonder if it's one of those things where the, you know, what happened is in a way while horrific, so mundane. Mm. You know, I mean, the Titanic, it's got this grand story behind it. But I mean, the, you know, the Eastland,

[00:34:30] that again, that is something that happens more frequently than, you know, we'd like to think. I mean, where I grew up, Revelstoke of course, you know, there's a small town called Sycamouse about 45 minutes to the West. Yeah. And it's called the houseboat capital of Canada

[00:34:46] or some shit like this. And there was a story, I think it was from there. It may have been the Lake Hogan-Agan, but it doesn't really matter. But a bunch of kids rented a houseboat for someone's birthday party. And when it came time to sing Happy Birthday,

[00:35:00] everyone rushed to the top deck. And exactly the same thing happened. It flipped, it capsized. And a lot of people got hurt. And again, it's just one of those things. So I wonder if that's part of it, you know? It's just, it doesn't meet the standard

[00:35:16] of a city burning down or of Leonardo DiCaprio sinking to the bottom of the sea. Yeah, yeah. Well, we've got one over here, very similar. In Europe, the MS, Estonia. Really? Yeah. 852 people went down in the middle of the night. And Jesus Christ.

[00:35:32] If you want to talk about conspiracies, that one's got it all because what they said didn't happen. Really? How so? Well, the official explanation was that it was a front loading ferry. So it was for passengers and motor vehicles.

[00:35:49] So the front came down so you could drive in. And the official explanation that they gave and stuck to for years was that the front clasp came off due to high waves and therefore the front door opened and it flooded and sank. Oh, wow. That's not what happened.

[00:36:07] Okay. Something blew up inside of it. Really? Yeah. And we know that because a pair of Swedish documentary makers broke international law because you weren't allowed to go on it. If you went near it, you would be arrested. And so they had to get a ship,

[00:36:24] not from the region to go near it. Otherwise they would have been arrested for breaking this treaty. So I think they turned up with an Italian flag on their ship so they could get into this area. Right. And when they sent the cameras down,

[00:36:39] there's a massive explosion mark in the hull where something burst out. Something blew up on that ferry. So a mechanical malfunction of some kind presumably? No. Oh. I believe it was a secret army project that was being smuggled on that ship under the cover of passenger cover.

[00:36:59] Oh, Jesus. Sorry, under the cover of using passengers and across as it was traveling across the sea, something happened and it blew up and that's what took the ferry down. That's only come out in the last sort of three or four years because that happened in 94, 95. Oh, wow.

[00:37:16] So that's been kept secret for a long time. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, people have been threatened with lawsuits and jail and all sorts to keep it quiet. They told the families all this nonsense. So that's one that's only recently resurfaced ironically. But international espionage and conspiracies

[00:37:35] and a tragic loss of life for hundreds of people. And folks, if you want to hear more stories about maritime disasters, things like this, I got to recommend the Beyond the Breakers podcast. We are supporters of them on Patreon and yeah, they do it all.

[00:37:50] Maritime history, folklore, shipwrecks, any kind of nautical disaster they cover on their show. So again, that's Beyond the Breakers and if you're into this subject, you can't go wrong. And we've got lots more Chicago lore to talk about but we'll cover that as part of our stories.

[00:38:22] The Blob. This story may not be paranormal but if nothing else, it's certainly abnormal. I live in Chicago and late one night I was on my way home from work when I saw something that didn't make any kind of sense to me. It was around 1.30 in the morning

[00:38:38] on an overcast night where the dark gray clouds hung low in the sky. I was nearish, maybe a mile or two away from the Chicago Premium Outlets Outlet Mall and the only car on the road. For the traffic to be this low

[00:38:50] at that time of night wasn't unheard of and if I hadn't had this experience I never would have thought any more of it. Now as to the thing, at first I thought it was a black garbage bag stuck on a telephone wire blowing in the wind.

[00:39:03] Then my helpful, rational voice kicked in and said that bag is too low for it to be on telephone wire. Having driven that road many, many times over the years I have a good sense of how high up those wires run. Well, the black blob wasn't moving

[00:39:18] and as I got closer I realized it wasn't exactly blowing in the wind. Instead it had kind of a flowing quality like a blob of oil hovering in one spot. Think the lava lamp. At the risk of sounding like a nerd

[00:39:31] it also looked a little like one of the Dementors from Harry Potter. Really that's it. I passed beneath a strange floating ball and watched it flow in my rear view mirror until it passed out of sight. I'd never seen anything like it before

[00:39:44] and it remains the single strangest experience of my life. And that is, that's a weird one Paul. I've never heard of anything similar to that at all. I was trying to think when I'd read it earlier if it reminded me of anything

[00:39:56] especially in the world of the paranormal and it doesn't at all. I'm not sure what that could be or what it refers to because I've never sort of come across anything similar. No, I was thinking that myself. I mean, we've talked about black masses before.

[00:40:10] I drove through years ago in Victoria on Bay Street. A friend and I drove through this sort of black cloud that gave us intense chills but never anything that kind of looked like flowing oil in the sky. That's kind of a, yeah, it's absolutely bizarre.

[00:40:27] Yeah, and it certainly, the kind of thing, I've heard of similar things in certain UFO cases where people find themselves enveloped in strange clouds of funny colored mists appearing from nowhere or whatever but never anything that sounds like a ball of oil oozing itself in the sky.

[00:40:46] It's almost X-Files-y. You know, the black goop from the X-Files. Who was, you had someone on your show recently. Was it Watson talking about mists? Yes, WT Watson, yes. That's it, yes. Yes, we were talking about a strange UFO encounter here where a family,

[00:41:07] one of those where they see a pink cloud on the road and they go, oh, just carry on driving. Sure, I like to do. You know, clearly these people haven't seen enough films. I don't know man, I've seen lots of films

[00:41:20] and that might actually contribute to my going, well, I guess that's nothing I need to think about. The worst thing could happen. Yeah, no, I know enough not to say that anymore. I mean, funny enough, and I can't remember if we talked about this on the show,

[00:41:34] but I had a message from Steve and Rachel from Hexagram about they were driving, I can't remember, I guess I shouldn't say where they live, but they live in Southern England and they were driving home and there was one particular stretch of road

[00:41:49] and I wish I could remember which stretch of road it was because it was a stretch of road that you said is not unknown for strange things. But they saw the, I believe it was the shadow of a cloud

[00:42:01] drift across the road, but there was no cloud in the sky. It was like the light was sort of being cast around something but the something was not visible from the ground, if that makes sense. To wrap up speaking of odd things, as I mentioned, of course,

[00:42:17] there's a construction site right across the street for me and where I'm sitting, listeners, you won't be able to see this, but I am sitting in the closet of my room to cut down on the echo. And so I am staring out directly at my window

[00:42:31] and of course the construction site across the street and it's been very windy today. And consequently every now and again, including just now, I am given a jolt of fear when I see something fall off this construction site, which again I'd like to add is 28 stories up

[00:42:47] and it's always cardboard boxes because they're just being blown off the, cause it's an open floor, they haven't enclosed those floors yet. But every time I see something fly off there and I think well, that's someone going to their death

[00:42:58] and so far every time it has been a cardboard box but the fear does not get less. Leaper. This happened just over two years ago in Melrose Park, one of Chicago's western suburbs. My husband, Danny and I live in a quaint little

[00:43:16] split level with a nice big fenced in yard not far from the Des Plaines River Preserve. We both work professional jobs, I'm in human resources, he's a pilot. So we're not the types who go around looking for strange experiences. We have binge watched The Good Place

[00:43:33] before bed at 930 type people, not ghost hunters. Please bear that in mind as I tell you the rest of this story. Our dog lamb is a big pit bull mix who loves cuddles and kisses but eating whatever she can conceivably sneak without us noticing.

[00:43:49] It was a weekend so we were up later than normal and at around 1130, lamb made it no she needed to go outside to use the bathroom. It was a warm evening, I guess they're all warm evenings now and the first thing I heard after opening the door

[00:44:06] was the buzzing of a cicada coming from underneath the patio table. Lamb immediately trotted out into the dark of the backyard and chomped that poor cicada down before I could even think to stop her. Looking very satisfied with herself, lamb stood under the table for a moment

[00:44:23] chewing and I looked away. That's when I saw it, maybe 20 feet away coming from the back fence was what I thought was a trespasser wearing all white. I felt an adrenaline rush come on but mixed with something else. I've been in a life threatening situation before this

[00:44:44] but what I felt that night was different. I felt a whole body chill. When they saw me, the trespasser quickly changed direction running away toward the fence with which they vaulted with ease. Of course I called Dan who came running. I pointed to the fence and told him

[00:45:02] there was someone in our backyard. He just jumped the fence and ran. Dan ran to the spot in the fence where I'd been pointing and that's when something clicked in my head. The figure I had seen was totally white and in the heat of the moment

[00:45:17] I thought it looked this way because of how far away into the dark it had been standing. But Dan was wearing shorts, a shirt and a cap all of which I could clearly make out as he stood in exactly the same place as the intruder had.

[00:45:31] This person I had seen couldn't have been wearing all white clothes because there were no lines on them no features. It's like their entire body was featureless and white from head to toe. Not only that but I had heard Dan as he ran to the fence

[00:45:46] the sound of his clothes, his feet in the grass. This thing hadn't made a single sound and it had moved with the fluidity which in retrospect wasn't at all human. There are no alleys in our neighborhood one yard a buts another so Dan vaulted the fence as well

[00:46:02] and scoured the neighbor's yard but found nothing. No open gates no trampled grass or flowers. It was like whoever or whatever I'd seen had vanished once it had left my sight. What strikes me as even odder than all this is that Lam never reacted once.

[00:46:21] So what did I see that night? A man? Something else? Is the world truly much more complex than I'd ever imagined? So Paul I'm really curious does this it sounds a little bit like Fresno Nightcrawler but I kind of think Fresno Nightcrawler bullshit.

[00:46:38] But before I get into the supplementary stuff I found does this sound like anything you've heard of before? When I saw it and I read it the first thing that popped into my head was the Fresno Nightcrawlers. Oh okay. I love the Fresno Nightcrawler plushie. Really?

[00:46:54] I loved it. Well they look nifty. I don't think they're real but they look nifty and that's okay because I don't think Barney the purple dinosaur is real but he's pretty cool too. I mean if it's a fake it's one of the best ones.

[00:47:09] Obviously there are numerous ones that have occurred afterwards that are clearly fakes but the original footage is just very odd. It is very odd. I'm not very well done. Yeah I'm not totally so I think because the original footage is like it's a news recording of a screen

[00:47:26] if I'm not mistaken. So it's a little bit hard for me to kind of go oh yeah sure that's legit because it's like a copy of a copy kind of thing but yeah definitely when I did that round table way back with, was it Saf?

[00:47:40] It was Derek from Monsters Among Us way back in the beginning of the pandemic when he invited me on there and they showed us a couple different sets of footage of the Nightcrawler and yeah I wasn't really impressed by most of it. Like the latter ones,

[00:47:56] sort of the bonus ones. It's a little bit like Black Eyed Kid stories. You know there's that first one from Brian Bethel and you think oh okay well that's creepy and you know this seems to be legit and then a bunch of other stuff pops up

[00:48:06] and it starts embroidering the legend and you think okay I kind of think this is just people jerking each other off. But yeah, it's right on the Nightcrawler. Could very well be this sounds a little bit, I mean this thing has a head

[00:48:17] the Nightcrawler is kind of like ghost pants. It's a pair of paranormal pants. That's my new band name, pair of paranormal pants. You've a lot of band names tonight. I'm a very musical guy. Mostly because I had some spicy chicken wings but you know.

[00:48:35] You should try that English delicacy of mushy peas. Make it very musical. I don't want to get kicked out of here, there's a limit you know. So like I said I was digging through some stories for next episode when I found some stuff

[00:48:54] that's actually kind of similar to this and it was sort of shocking because again it was not, this is completely separate, completely different set of search terms but these things came up. So I'm gonna share one of them and then we'll get Paul to share the other.

[00:49:09] But so the first one is this story's from Pennsylvania and the story goes my aunt lives about an hour outside of Philly in an area that's still pretty rural. She doesn't like traveling out of PHL which is I assume the airport code for Philadelphia

[00:49:23] and will instead go to Newark Airport when she flies. That was weird. It was, I only had my text screen covering most of it so I can only see the black widow poster but it was like everything,

[00:49:36] did you just have a bright white light flash in your room? No. Cause it was like all of a sudden very briefly it was like I was looking at the black widow picture as like a photo negative. Like very briefly something,

[00:49:49] again I thought maybe like a bright white, like maybe the TV had flashed or something. No. Oh, that's odd. Very. Folks, we've had a, it's been a very strange night as far as recording stuff goes. We don't quite know what's going on

[00:50:07] and I know this has been happening a little bit lately and you think all these guys just don't know what the fuck they're doing but I swear I know what the fuck I'm doing. Well, we can say that because we were chatting

[00:50:17] for the best part of two hours with no problems. Yeah, that's a good point. And all of a sudden, yeah, once we started recording the show proper we started having all these problems and what you just heard. I mean, that was real time.

[00:50:27] I'm only gonna cut that a little bit, just cut it down a little bit but yeah, I thought something very strange was happening on Paul's side. I do not know. Well, usually there is but there wasn't that occasion. And not mushy peabre later. This is actual.

[00:50:41] No, no, I had any mushy peas tonight now. All right, so back to the story from Philadelphia. My, let's, we'll start again. My aunt lives about an hour outside of Philly in an area that's still pretty rural. She doesn't like traveling out of PHL

[00:50:52] and will instead go to Newark Airport when she flies. Last year, she asked me to give her a ride to the airport around one in the morning. We decided to take her car, a mid-sized SUV as it had more room for her luggage.

[00:51:05] We've been on the road maybe 20 minutes driving through a number of little villages, basically clumps of 10 to 15 houses placed close to the road. None of the lights were on not even candle lamps in the windows. And if you're from PA

[00:51:16] you know what I'm talking about with those lamps they're everywhere. Mission spooky that's on you. I have no idea. We were driving along this wooded road and all of a sudden we came upon something that was facing a telephone pole off to the right of the car.

[00:51:29] The pole was just in front of a garage or small barn structure. All I could see was the back of its head completely white, no hair and its hands and forearms which are also totally white. It looked like it was wearing a dark shirt

[00:51:42] or something of that nature but it was facing away from us leaning into the telephone pole with its arms up against it and its head against its arms or at least a stance similar to that. The worst feeling I have ever felt

[00:51:55] rose up in my chest when I saw it. I felt my heart almost stop and drop into my stomach. I felt sick and terrified. All I knew was that whatever it was I didn't want it to turn around no matter what. I knew it couldn't be allowed

[00:52:07] to turn around or I would regret it. This person they go on to say that you know they left and on the way back they didn't see it and they've never seen it again but it's really again I mean this is a little bit different

[00:52:19] in that it's this seemed to be clothed in a certain way but it's very striking the similarity. Yeah, there are some strange things in that state I have to say so I'm not sure these weird sort of creatures are very peculiar the way that people seem to just

[00:52:35] be just driving along as if they randomly come across things like this and that's what I always find odd about these particular kind of stories that they seem so unusual because it's just a collection of coincidence. Yeah, a friend of mine was recently driving across Pennsylvania

[00:52:53] and two of them actually two my friends and they characterize Pennsylvania they said it felt very angry. It felt like a very angry place whereas when I when I've been in Pennsylvania, I immediately feel at home. I just have this sense of like, no, I'm here, I'm back

[00:53:08] and so but it's always I've also got this as I told in the Call of Dreams episode is kind of like very strange almost paranormal connection to it as well. So I don't know it's it's really kind of draws me and I don't quite understand it.

[00:53:24] But I think you're right. I think there's it's a pretty powerful place and there's there's definitely something going on there. Very much so, especially as a state known for being the home of brotherly love as well. Well, yeah, I don't know. I feel like Philadelphia they try

[00:53:37] and sell that just to suck at you in there so they can rob you. No comment. All right. And you want to show this other one with us, Paul, this there was a similar story here. I will do bear with me a second. Sure.

[00:53:52] There was a cat's head sticking through the door. It's all fucking happening here tonight. I heard a bell. Right. OK. Someone else saw something similar in the woods in southern Western New York State, which was about an hour north of Erie one time.

[00:54:11] They had a group of friends who all like to go out and play with things would most definitely better leave well alone. So one night it's about two in the morning we went out into the woods and got lost. They didn't know their way around the

[00:54:23] woods well, but my buddies did. Eventually we came up to this big sort of ravine overlooking a stream. We all heard something rushing through the undergrowth behind us and we all turned at once. It was hiding behind a tree. Peering around the tree just

[00:54:39] enough for us to watch us. Studying us. We were frozen in terror for a moment and then we booked it the hell out of there and back to my apartment. When we got back there it was nearly morning and we were all exhausted but none of us could

[00:54:56] sleep. We got to talking about what we'd seen. We all described essentially the same thing, although I couldn't get a good look at it as I was in a position where most of it was obscured behind the tree to me. All I had seen was really a pale

[00:55:11] skin glinting in the moonlight and a hairless head. My friends both saw more my friends both saw more of it. They described a tall skinny humanoid thing taller than our tallest guy who is easily over six foot. Pale skinned with long arms and

[00:55:28] legs, no hair or at least very little on its head or anywhere else. One didn't really see the face but the guy that did see it described as if it might have been beautiful if not attached to that body. We never saw it again despite

[00:55:45] numerous additional forays into those woods. And so there's one more story from Pennsylvania that I found again quite randomly and here goes. I live in Pennsylvania also and I was sleeping over to friends' house. We planned on camping at a tent in his backyard but for some

[00:56:01] reason we went back inside. I remember forgetting something from the tent and had to go back and get it. That's when I saw this thing standing outside of the tent peeking inside the flap. Honestly, it was probably some teenager but I remember it was tall, white, bald,

[00:56:17] and skinny. I couldn't make out any facial features. Looked more like an alien than a person but that could be my young imagination. I screamed and ran back inside. His parents investigated but didn't find anything. And so folks, we don't know what the hell it means but the

[00:56:32] fact that other people are seeing it in multiple places I think is significant. Unless it's the Dover Demon on tour. You're going to have to tell us what the Dover Demon is. The Dover Demon is one of those really odd cryptids that's been cited once. Really.

[00:56:48] And that happened, ironically, in the town of Dover, in Massachusetts in 77, I think it's one of Lauren Coleman's first investigations and it was cited by a group of teenagers and essentially it was this white sort of spindly thing with a really big head.

[00:57:07] And they saw it sort of scurrying across the road and a couple of other groups of teenagers saw it over the next day or so I think. And then it just vanished. Never seen again. I mean, that sounds a lot like what we're talking about here.

[00:57:19] Yeah. And it was pale, hairless, odd looking. Interesting. So maybe it's not specific to Dover. This is some kind of weird phenomenon that moves around and terrorizes people, particularly in Pennsylvania. Yeah. There's some weird things. The other one round there is the Enfield horror right happened in Illinois.

[00:57:38] Yeah, of course. And where boats is that relative to Chicago? I think it's towards the south of the state, to be honest. But that's a very odd thing because one of the witnesses said it had three legs. All right. But that's one of those monsters

[00:57:53] that ends up causing a real panic and people got arrested for turning up in the streets with guns. Holy shit. Wow, people were afraid of the Dover of the Enfield horror. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of them. Somebody saw it and everybody panicked. Of course.

[00:58:09] That kind of reminds me there is I'm just going to find the article here. I clipped this a thousand years ago. One of those things where, you know, everyone's got a million screenshots on their phone that they assume they're never going to actually use. I know that feeling.

[00:58:22] The story itself was written by a journalist named Tristan Hopper. But I don't think he's just sort of summarizing some of the creepy stories from Canada's recent history. And so I'm just going to read the article here. In May 2004, a mysterious olive skinned man disembarking Vancouver's number 98 bus

[00:58:40] offered an eerie remark to the driver. How's your day going? Said the man. When the driver replied that it was going well, the man replied, it won't be for long. 10 kilometers later, the bus driver was overcome by nausea and threw up with other passengers reporting similar

[00:58:55] symptoms. The driver pulled over and radioed for help. Paramedics arrived on scene and they too fell ill. The whole episode carried the trademarks of a new and terrifying form of chemical terror attack. But Vancouver's chief medical officer, John Bletherwick concluded that the true cause

[00:59:09] of the incident was weirder still nothing. There was no chemical and there were no terrorists. A cryptic comment had simply plunged an entire group of Vancouverites, including trained emergency personnel into a state of sudden mass hysteria. Well, the good old mass hysteria explanation.

[00:59:27] It's got a little bit of that Mad Gasser of Mattoon. Oh, what a tale that is. It is indeed. What the hell? This is already a long section because of all the breaks. Tell us about the Mad Gasser of Mattoon, Paul. You're going to tell it better or

[00:59:38] not good. Well, the Mad Gasser of Mattoon is clearly one of those things that was somebody was wandering around the streets of this small town, apparently trying to poison the residents by pumping gas in through their letterboxes and open windows. And people were having bits

[00:59:57] of their hair cut off and all sorts. And it seems to be one of those cases where the police just didn't have any idea what was going on. So after about 10 days, they just went, yeah, just no, it's not happening. Nothing's happening here.

[01:00:14] People are just pretending to faint. Interesting. And it just peated out after that. It just it's crazy. It's. I mean, it happens a lot. You see these situations that they always get reported around the world. But the Mad Gasser clearly is one of those where they

[01:00:34] blamed it on social upheaval, stress, the time of the periods in time that it occurred. And you just think, well, my sister is one of those explanations that I think just gets pushed out sometimes, because obviously there are. I mean, there's a school in Nepal where

[01:00:53] about 10 years ago, some of the children just started screaming in class. Oh, and they all started fainting and panicking and kids had to be rushed out. They all got taken to the hospital and they were all fine to be fine. And now it seems to happen

[01:01:09] every year in this same school. So kids move on, they leave the class and then the class that follows them. The same thing happens to them at the same time of year. And there's no, you know, no medical explanation. Apparently not. Apparently not. They've said they've done

[01:01:24] toxicology and they've checked to make sure people are having some weird reaction or it's not a sort of release of strange spores in the air or certain atmospheric conditions. But most of the time when these things happen, they tend to look at everything and because

[01:01:41] they can't find a rational explanation, they just simply say, well, it has to be a massive theory. Right, of course. There's hundreds of these accounts from all around the world, all around the world. There was one in a clothes factory in the Southern US in the 60s

[01:01:57] that got blamed on the stress of the civil rights movement because the majority of people involved were black. Fascinating. So I don't know. Before we move on, folks, I just want to point out Matune, also in Illinois. Dun dun dun. Hunger underground. So this is probably going to

[01:02:18] sound rather strange, but I'll do my best to articulate what I felt here. I've been living in Chicago for only a little while now and I don't know the city very well. My profession is vaguely medical and I work in a laboratory that requires me

[01:02:31] to keep semi odd hours. So I spent a lot of time driving. One night recently, something happened that I can't quite get my head around. Maybe it's nothing, but it didn't feel that way at the time. It was late and I was driving back home from the lab

[01:02:48] because I still don't know the city beyond what Google Maps tells me. I don't know exactly where I was when it happened, but suddenly a strange sensation began to creep over me. It was like the air suddenly got about 20 degrees warmer and my mind was flooded

[01:03:02] with images of the city abandoned and filled with sand. The buildings were sagging that windows were broken and there were no people anywhere. You know how movies like I Am Legend display post apocalyptic cities where nature starts to take back over? It was like that.

[01:03:18] To be clear, this wasn't a hallucination. It was more like forced imagination. It felt like I wasn't the one who wanted to think about these things, if that makes sense. As these images crept over me, I got a strong feeling of what I can only describe as hunger

[01:03:32] from outside my car. It was coming from beneath the ground like something under there wanted to swallow up the section of the city. Along with that feeling, the air seemed to be heavy with negative emotions, picture walking into a room where people had a fight,

[01:03:46] but over more than five minutes of driving. About halfway through driving in this area, I felt like I was being watched like whatever entity that was making me feel this way was now aware I could sense it and had zeroed in on me.

[01:03:59] Every instinct I had was telling me something was very, very wrong and that I needed to leave immediately. Then after passing one particular street and all went away, the heat, the strange hungry feeling beneath the ground, the imagined images of a deserted postman kind Chicago just gone.

[01:04:19] Being a scientist, I'm not one to put too much thought into strange experiences. But this was next level. I'm struggling to find a rational scientific explanation for those feelings. It felt like a negative version of the energy vortex in Sedona, Arizona. And that's another one, Paul.

[01:04:36] I don't know that I've ever necessarily heard anything like this. The only thing that comes to my mind is a time slip. Oh, interesting. But one of the future, not of the past. Oh, fascinating. But I mean, how then to explain the feeling of hunger?

[01:04:52] Now that bit I can't explain. I don't know. Maybe it was the overriding sense of the emotion of the moment because most time slips that people mention or claim to have had seem to involve the past, don't they? Sure. Yeah. But time

[01:05:12] is a two way street, is it not? Well, I suppose there's an argument to be made. I mean, I know there are some people who think that, you know, the future is as yet unformed sort of a result of many different decisions being made at one

[01:05:23] time. But certainly, yeah, that there are there are those who think the future is kind of like like past and future exist alongside the present, like a single block. I mean, you could be really finicky about this and say that technically astronauts travel through time out there because

[01:05:41] they lose periods of time when they leave the Earth's atmosphere. That's nerdy even for us. But I mean, that's that's really splitting hairs, I think. But because otherwise, as the contributor says that it does sound like a post apocalyptic, God, I can't speak to that, a post

[01:06:02] apocalyptic scene because you would say, well, maybe it was the past. Maybe that's what you should like. But then obviously there wouldn't have been buildings at that period of time. Yeah, if it was barren wastelands, it would just be grass and hills and whatever. And even during the

[01:06:20] period where that area of North America was under thousands of feet of ice. So it can only be if it is anything at all, it can only be a glimpse of the future. But as for the feelings of hunger, who knows? See, I was thinking about this

[01:06:36] in terms of maybe it's something because we've talked before about nature spirits, you know. And again, I know just lost Paul again. There's the man a foot at the circle. OK, my friend. They really are. I actually forgot to tell you, I saw another one of those

[01:06:52] flashes earlier. You know what it looks like? It looked like something sweeping from one side of your screen to the other. That's what it looked like. How weird? Like a light effect of some kind sweeping from one side to the other. I haven't seen it since.

[01:07:07] But like I was saying, we've talked before on the show about Earth spirits and elemental spirits and things like that. Yeah. And I wonder maybe I mean, the negative emotion, depending on what part of Chicago they're in, that could just be Chicago because there are some

[01:07:19] very, very rough parts of Chicago. But also I wonder if that hunger, you know, if there's something that's again, you know, we sort of tend to think as oh, this was all nothing. And then we put up our Jamba juices and Curves Fitness Centers. But, you know, we

[01:07:34] have in many cases built on things that were already there, but maybe we didn't quite understand. And so I wonder sometimes when you've got a place that's, you know, particularly violent or particularly prone to certain kinds of violence and certainly a lot of what's

[01:07:47] happening in Chicago, it's a result of socioeconomic factors. It's not just, you know, random violence. Like this is what happens when you sort of systematically deprive areas. But still, I wonder if there are paranormal environmental factors that can influence these things, you know?

[01:08:02] Isn't there a part of Chicago built on a graveyard, like a massive yard? It wouldn't surprise me. I don't know. I don't know enough about the about the area, but it's it's very possible. Again, Chicago is a city built built on bones, you know, at

[01:08:16] least figuratively, if not literally. Yeah. If you ever want to want to really want to ruin your sleep, read Upton Sinclair's The Jungle, his description of what was done in the slaughterhouses, like really paved the way for labor reform in Chicago at the time, but also just

[01:08:33] told some horrific fucking stories and really talked a lot about the how badly the Polish immigrants have been taken advantage of as well. So that's worth it. That's worth a read, folks. But going back to the nature spirits, it reminds me a little

[01:08:47] bit of when I was hanging out with Ella in Los Angeles back in 2018 or 20, maybe 2017, whenever it was, I was showing her around downtown LA and I really noticed as the as night came on, you felt the city closing in around you felt this

[01:09:06] like the number of places you could safely go and not just for reasons of street crime, although, of course, that's a problem in Los Angeles. But there was this very, very real sense that outside forces as night came on we're taking, we're kind of

[01:09:22] filling the streets and taking back the space that it had seeded in the daytime. And I feel like it might have been our listener, Michael, who told me that his Michael's Michael's a bruho. He told me that there is something in the desert, like

[01:09:37] again, like a like a major elemental. Yeah. And that it's just kind of biting its time until such time as it can have the city back for full time and for real. So I wonder if maybe there's something similar happening there. Hmm. Well, why not? I mean,

[01:09:51] obviously, and especially because you've got such a large body of water nearby, who knows what looks. Oh, gee, yeah, I hadn't thought about that. But of course. All right. Well, that's a comforting thought. Take another city, evil spirits, whatever is out there, whatever

[01:10:08] this thing is, just take Gary Indiana. OK, just not Chicago. I like Chicago. Is there anyone out there who likes Gary? No, I don't think so. Listeners, if you could recommend the place to be taken by elementals, please let us know. Of course, Brett Manning, her

[01:10:25] wonderful new book, One Foot in the Green was just released. Brett lives in Indiana. Brett, tell us which garbage city in Indiana can the can the nature spirits have instead of Chicago? A man in the closet. When I was little, we lived

[01:10:44] in a house on the north side of Chicago. As far as I know, this house built in 1913 and the neighborhood don't have any history that would suggest that we should expect paranormal activity. And yet here I am with my story. When I was three, I started to

[01:11:02] have some terrifying nightmares. I would dream about vicious animals chasing me around the house or appliances in the house being flowing across a room at me. I even dreamt about the toilet coming to life with sharp teeth trying to eat me. As an adult, these would

[01:11:19] simply be brushed off as odd, but to a three year old, it was positively terrifying. I remember dreading bedtime, but not because I was three and I didn't want to go to sleep. It was because of the scary things in my life lived in my dreams.

[01:11:38] After several months of this, I was still having nightmares, but now my parents were finding me sleeping under the dining room table every morning with my blanket and teddy bear. They thought it was just a phase, but when it persisted for weeks, they sat me down and asked

[01:11:54] me why I was doing that. I told them that every night after I was in bed and after they had gone to bed, a tall, scary man dressed in all black would come out of my closet and tell me to get out of his room.

[01:12:08] I remember that I used to have a Sesame Street nightlight in my room and I remember it flickering when the man came out of the closet to tell me to leave. I even have a vague memory of trying to block off the closet door with a chair once,

[01:12:22] but it opened anyway. Of course, my parents didn't believe me. After all, I was three. They thought this was all the overactive imagination of a child. However, not two days after I had told them about the man, my mum called my dad at work

[01:12:38] to tell him she'd heard footsteps in the attic. I remember hearing them too and not being scared, but that was because I had gotten used to hearing them every night. By this point, I thought they were normal. Fun fact, the stairs to that attic were in my closet.

[01:12:58] My dad didn't work far away, so my mum took me outside and we waited in the front yard for him to come home. He checked the house, but there was nothing there. The attic was populated only by our boxes. The next day, we went down for nap time.

[01:13:13] Me in my bed and my mum in her room. I was almost asleep when I heard her yell my name. I threw off the covers running to her and she told me to get some clothes because we were going to stay at Grandma's for a couple of days.

[01:13:26] I came to find out later that as she was falling asleep, she felt the covers tighten around her to the point she could barely breathe. As we got into the car, I remember seeing a silhouette in the back window watching us leave. We stayed with my Grandma

[01:13:42] for a couple of days and I think my parents had a priest come in to cleanse the house. We moved shortly thereafter. I, you know, we've talked about this before, but I've talked to people who've had priests bless their house and it's done absolutely nothing.

[01:13:58] And, you know, it's so specific down to the priest. You know, I was thinking about that again when I was listening to that shitty book. People are going to be like, what's the book? And I will never tell you. Like, honestly, I was

[01:14:15] listening to part of it and there's a part that involves actually it's a story from Chicago. If I'm not mistaken, a fellow who had fallen into a life of crime and he was he was a, you know, a fellow of Latin descent and apparently I don't know why

[01:14:29] the narrator did not use a voice in any other part of the book. And then all of a sudden he whips out this I don't I think he thought he was doing like kind of like a stereotypical gangbanger voice, but he sounds like it goes from speedy

[01:14:45] Gonzalez to Dracula. I was aghast. I could not believe that he had done this. I thought, no, but he have done a couple of I mean, this guy's done way more audio books than I have, but don't do that. Unless you have that accent,

[01:14:57] do not do that accent because otherwise it turns into breakfast at Tiffany's and you're Mickey Rooney. And we've moved past that or I'd like to think we've moved past that. One would bloody hope so. But this story I mean, this is maybe a more

[01:15:14] of a typical ghost story than the others on this show. But I think it's significant one because obviously shadow figure from the closet kind of hits close to home right now, given the event of the of the last week. And also because I am recording

[01:15:28] this in a closet that is as you can see, Paul, and I'll both try and put up a screen grab for our listeners. It is fucking dark around me. So it looks like I am just in this terrible void. And while you were reading the

[01:15:40] story, I don't know if you'd see me or if you were reading, but I was like playing around, moving my hand into the screen to make it see if I could terrify myself by making it look like a disembodied hand was coming for me.

[01:15:48] Because, you know, I want to have more nightmares is the thing. It looks like a knockoff version of get out. Yeah. Yeah. It would be a knockoff version of get out. I feel like one one made by Ben Shapiro. I'm leaving that in too.

[01:16:07] If you like Ben Shapiro, you probably shouldn't be listening to the show. Someone has to. And. I'm always perplexed when I hear stories like this. Who on earth put stairs in a closet in a kid's bedroom? What's all that about? What's going on there?

[01:16:23] So funny, you say this because my first apartment, the one I wrote about in a strange little place, which will hopefully be back in store soon. The the room at the top of the stairs, the one that I could never get to be anything, it

[01:16:37] always just ended up being the pass out room when I had parties. There were in there was a closet and in that closet were stairs to the attic. What's all that about? I don't know. I assume that's the room for the kid they like the least.

[01:16:52] I mean, well, that's just that his room. He was always kind of a pain in the ass. So we'll give him the stairs. And again, that room was a room that was very strange. That was the room actually where even after they knocked when we

[01:17:06] had long sort of moved out of there and different even different owners had bought the building, they knocked down all the walls upstairs. They completely redistributed the space. So it was when I went to go see it, you know, when I started right in strange,

[01:17:19] it was completely different than when I lived there. And yet. That room, that corner of the upper floor, the woman who ran the place told me, she said, I cannot get it to be anything. She said not only not only will nothing stick there, she said, I

[01:17:34] put a brand new marble counter top in because there's a sink in there. And she said the next morning it was cracked right down the middle cracked. So I guess the moral of the story is if your if your room has stairs in the closet,

[01:17:47] that should no longer be your room. Mind you, I say that. I mean that house I grew up in that was a bit odd to say the least. We had that random door in the wall, didn't we? I was thinking that when you were challenging this.

[01:18:00] Like this is this is high speech from someone who literally had the man in the iron mask living in his bathroom. Yeah, but let me count of that. Oh, here we go. That house was built in 1748, which is older than Canada, isn't it? I mean, if you lived

[01:18:17] in Revelstoke at the time that building was put together, many of the attitudes had not progressed beyond 1748. So I mean, that was just weird. I don't know. I mean, that house was all kinds of odd. That room reminds me of the Treehouse of Horror episode of

[01:18:33] The Simpsons where Bart's double is living on fish heads in the attic. That's that's what that reminds me of. Well, those stories are based on factual events. Those stories always make me give me a shudder when you read those about people who discover that they've had

[01:18:49] somebody living in their attic for a year or something. Oh, yeah. There's actually a name for that. And I cannot remember what it is. It's called Berglary. This is like extended Berglary, sleepover Berglary. There's there's a name for it. And funny enough, our listener,

[01:19:05] Travis, who he wrote in, we talked about it on a previous show he he had that experience in Detroit near eight mile where he's living now where he saw a green panel light up in the sky. He also had an issue where and I don't remember exactly what

[01:19:18] happened. But he woke up one morning and, you know, I'm just going to find the email really quick. So I'm not talking on my ass. And so Travis had this weird thing happen. And I'm just going to read his email. He said about two or

[01:19:36] three months ago, I let myself into my house as usual, put the keys back in my pants. Bucket is usual and hung the pants up for me to rifle through in the morning to get my keys. When I went through that routine the next morning to

[01:19:46] my shock, the house key and the only key on that ring had been bent to a perfect 90 degree angle. It looked as though it had been put into a lock and bent violently sideways. It took a great deal of effort to bend it back into position.

[01:20:00] So it seems unlikely that to me that I could have somehow bent it myself when coming home the night before. So I did say to my said, you know, frogging that's it's called frogging. I said I started watching a TV show called frogging a hider in my house.

[01:20:14] And so I suggested Travis that perhaps he has an uninvited guest. He did not appreciate this. It happens more than you think though, the amount of people that find or buy a house or something and they find like a secret room that's been wallpapered up or something.

[01:20:32] That's that's crazy to me maybe because I've only ever really lived in small houses. It just seems like how would you not? It seems crazy to me that you would not notice that space missing. But I once I once remember going to some

[01:20:44] of these house years ago and they just bought a house and they'd got a greenhouse fitted to one side of the front room. I think it was with a door. Who builds who builds a greenhouse directly into the room? What's all that about? Somebody would clearly love

[01:21:00] plants, but it was still a very odd thing to see because they'd not to hole through the wall so they could walk into the greenhouse through a door. I mean, that seems like the kind of thing you would put in the backyard or something.

[01:21:10] But again, maybe really like plants or maybe you really are you don't want to be too far away from your marijuana grow. Or Trifids or well, I feel like I'd want to be further away from Trifids. Maybe you couldn't see them. But I'm all right, moving on.

[01:21:28] We're going to take a quick break to pay the bills and we'll be right back with our next story. The jump. A few years ago, my wife and I were driving home to Chicago from our in-laws place in Indiana. The highway I 90 runs north to south through downtown

[01:21:44] before veering west towards O'Hare Airport. It was a Sunday afternoon and we expected heavy traffic. There's an intersection where I 90 and I 94 meet that is almost always guaranteed to be a parking lot. However, on this particular day the traffic wasn't just light. It was virtually non-existent.

[01:22:02] My wife commented on how strange that was and I agreed. We didn't think anything of it until we passed through the downtown loop area. There are a number of overpass bridges in the section that we passed under as we had done many times before.

[01:22:16] I knew that after the last bridge, our exit Irving Park was about 15 minutes away, traffic depending. But just a moment or two after we cleared that last bridge, I saw our exit sign fly by us. I thought that was odd at first

[01:22:29] and had I been alone, I would have assumed I just zoned out to music or dozed off or something. But no sooner had the thought crossed my mind when my wife said, how did we get all the way up here? It was like we skipped over

[01:22:41] miles of highway in an instant. There were no other indicators, no flashes of light or anything like that. The encounter reminded me of those who claim to suddenly miss time where hours will blink by in an instant only instead of time it was space.

[01:22:55] When I brought this story to the internet to see if anyone can offer an explanation, someone helpfully suggested I checked my Google timeline to see what it said. For those of you who don't know, Google Timeline is basically Google tracking your movements for various nefarious reasons, but they

[01:23:07] sell it to you as a helpful guide for figuring out where you left your keys or whatever. Going back through my movement history, I found the day in question and what I saw there only raises further questions. My in-laws live roughly 90 minutes away from our house.

[01:23:22] But on that day, Google Maps lost its mind completely and while it shows us traveling the route, it says it took us over 24 hours to drive less than 75 miles. I know traffic in Chicago gets bad, but this is ridiculous. And that just seems like

[01:23:37] straight up missing time to me, Paul. Very much so. Very much so. As all the hallmarks of nothing making sense. The timeline thing kind of reminded me because years a couple of years ago, maybe I guess about four or four years ago now, I was in Victoria driving

[01:23:54] around at night with my friend. We were driving in the city of Langford, which is sort of a separate municipality north of Victoria. And we were in this one neighborhood and things felt there's a few places out there where things just feel kind of hokey.

[01:24:08] And this was this was one particular occasion. And afterwards I went back and checked my Google timeline because I was I decided this feeling and it was very similar in that it perfectly tracked us all through Langford. But during that period where things felt off, it could not

[01:24:25] accurately track us. It kind of had us all over the place, which I thought was interesting. And it could just be a glitch in the cell phone thing. But I think the fact that it coincided with whatever this ominous feeling we were having was is significant.

[01:24:38] I think the interesting part of that particular story is that they comment that they noticed that the traffic is considerably lighter than normal. I was thinking that, yeah. And it is near O'Hare airport. Also this. It's not November 2006 when they were making that journey, is it?

[01:24:57] I don't think so. Not if they had Google Timeline. Oh, yeah, of course. Of course. It does remind me and I can't remember. This is a long time ago we did the story. But there was a story about someone I want to say who

[01:25:08] worked for a jet propulsion lab in the Bay Area. And if I'm not mistaken, this is a long time ago, but basically they drove to work in the morning. And there was no it was actually there was no traffic on the road whatsoever, very little traffic comparatively speaking,

[01:25:26] but at the same time they got to work late. And they said the timing doesn't add up because they left for work at the same time. I wish I could remember which episode that was. Listeners, if you know, write us in right in the snow, but

[01:25:39] I'm sure I could dig through the scripts and find it. But if you guys are really good at this stuff, but yeah, it was similar where they the roads should have been full because it was commuter traffic in the Bay Area, which is a fucking nightmare.

[01:25:50] But it wasn't or something along is very very very similar terms. And you're right, it's like they're moving through a kind of liminal space. I think one of the most famous incidents I remember hearing about is a chap called Bruce Gernon. Doesn't sound familiar.

[01:26:06] So he was flying a plane inside the Bermuda Triangle. OK. And he thinks he traveled 200 miles in 10 minutes. Oh. And he basically was surrounded by a weird cloud. Right. It came around him, which was a funny color. And he could see a sort

[01:26:28] of hole at the end of it. And so he just aimed for it and hope for the best. And when he appeared out of it, I think he was above Miami and he shouldn't have been anywhere near it. Oh, wow. And even his fuel tank

[01:26:41] registered the fact that he hadn't traveled as far as he thought he had. Right. I'm sure it's a guy called Bruce Gernon. There was there was also a famous flight that went missing in and around the Florida Keys, wasn't there? I want to say like a squadron, maybe.

[01:26:55] Flight 19. OK. December 1945 on a training exercise. All lost. Never been found still to this day. Fascinating. And that was one of Florida is I think the more weird which I hate, you know. Yeah. That's a very strange one because the the weirdest one of the weirdest.

[01:27:15] I mean, it's a weird story anyway that you lose a group of experienced pilots on a training flight who seem to have lost their bearings and both their sets of compasses stop working and people think they ditched in the sea. But nobody knows where they land.

[01:27:29] So for we're nearly eight years on, they still never found the planes. Eighty years. Yeah. They've never found them. Wow. But one of the weird things about that is the day after they disappeared, they sent a search plane out to find them. And that disappeared. Oh, interesting.

[01:27:46] I feel like I don't normally hear that part of the story when people tell it. Yeah. I always thought that's one of the weirder aspects of it. I mean, them losing losing losing the bearings and getting lost, you know. I mean, the fact it was peacetime

[01:27:59] as well. So they weren't shut down and they just stopped responding. So people think they got too far out. So they think that they were out into the Atlantic, whereas they thought they were somewhere else right because they could completely lost everything.

[01:28:14] But then they went one of the search planes that went out to look for them disappeared as well. Bizarre. I'd be curious to know again, listeners, if we have anyone in the Chicago land area, be curious to know if any of you have ever

[01:28:24] had any experiences like this missing time because that's one of the things I have not experienced. But I will say and I know I've said this before. But when I wrote Strange, the first edition, the missing time chapter was the only time I was uncomfortable

[01:28:38] writing that book because I felt like I was being observed and it could just be nerves. But I first started writing that chapter at Denver International Airport in, I want to say 2013. You will land. Denver International Airport. Well, that's somewhere to write about strange things, isn't it?

[01:28:57] That has occurred to me. I'm not necessarily on board with the whole FEMA death camp thing there. But certainly there is a lot of Strange and actually funny enough, they're on the the script I'm working on for airports for next time. There are two stories from Denver

[01:29:12] International Area and it started there. I felt I felt observed as I wrote that chapter and it got so bad actually in Victoria. I remember I was writing it. This is before I had my office set up. I was just at writing in the

[01:29:26] living room and I had to go outside to feel like I was around people because there was this very oppressive sense about the whole thing. And again, could just be nerves, but something about missing time, man, that always always gets me. I think it's one of those aspects

[01:29:42] as well that seems to span different aspects of the paranormal. As well, it's not just because it's not really something you would consider a supernatural event. It conjures up potential alien encounters being fairy led or meeting the ancient ones. It takes you into a realm

[01:30:02] that challenges your very perception of the world around you and what science is supposed to tell you about time, really. Very much so. And I think that's one of the reasons it's so it's like it was so effective. That's why I think my experience

[01:30:17] could very well just be sort of me hyping myself up because I do just find it very how it's a word like it's there's a trans like we're talking about Hellraiser, you know, we were going on air, we were talking about how,

[01:30:28] you know, like it or hate it, the first Hellraiser film has this real sense of trans like moral transgression about it. There's a lot going on there. There's a lot, a lot happening under the surface. It kind of makes you very uncomfortable because it sort of

[01:30:40] challenges certain basic assumptions. And I feel that way about missing time. It challenges certain basic assumptions about the way the world works. You know, there's like there's a story I remember a long time ago from sort of just after we started the show, I think I told this.

[01:30:56] I found an account from a policeman somewhere in the U.S. And he heard his garage door banging. I think it was or shed door banging. It was a middle of winter. It was freezing cold outside. But since he was just running out to latch the

[01:31:10] shed door, he didn't he didn't wear a jacket. So he just ran outside and he realized it was weird that the shed was open. So he popped into the shed just to make sure no one was was stealing anything from him. And the next thing he knows

[01:31:26] he's facing the other direction. Like he was looking in the shed. He's looking around and all of a sudden he's looking the other direction. And when he checks his watch, I want to say something like four hours has gone by. And this is again, no jacket

[01:31:41] freezing cold temperatures. There's absolutely no way he could have stood outside for four hours and not, you know, it has some kind of serious consequences. But his body temperature was fine. And as soon as he became aware again, he was very again disoriented and then he was cold.

[01:31:59] But again, if you're spending four hours outside in in subzero temperatures, you are not again, as someone who has spent time outside in subzero temperatures wearing heavy clothing, this is not something that happens. No, no, it's not challenges basic biology. I think it's also that time is

[01:32:16] a very precious commodity in any aspect of your life. So to lose some, I think also hits you emotionally. Yeah, that's very true. Time means a lot and often many of us don't do enough with what we have. Oh, now we've waited into deep philosophical waters.

[01:32:31] We better move on here. Black eyes. My family owns a house in Chicago's McKinley Park neighborhood, a house which is divided into two apartments, one on the upper floor, one on the lower floor and a furnished basement, which since we rented the apartment

[01:32:53] to family was a common area. I was 19 when this happened and my aunt Marcy was pregnant with her first kid. When it was time for her to head to the hospital, practically the whole family piled into our two cars and went with her.

[01:33:08] Adding me to the party would have been a tight fit. So instead I volunteered to stay back, something that was no real sacrifice as I rarely got the house to myself. In order for this to make sense, I need to explain a bit of the

[01:33:22] basement's layout, which is complex. The winding staircase leading from the first floor to the basement is located in the first floor's kitchen. At the bottom landing to the right is a laundry room and half bathroom. If you follow the corridor heading straight in front of the

[01:33:38] staircase, there's another room to the right, a bedroom. Past that, there is a large room, a recreation room with the space for a mini bar, a pool table, a set of weights and a small cot or bed. This is relevant because as soon

[01:33:53] as my family left for the hospital, I headed downstairs to do some exercise. I was about three sets in on the bench press when things hit the fan. It started off subtly. I was ripping out a set of bench presses when I heard the unmistakable creak of someone

[01:34:09] walking down those old winding steps from the kitchen to the basement. Instinctively, I called out my sister's name thinking she'd come back. Nothing. After a few seconds, I convinced myself that the house was settling and I went back to exercising. I got halfway through another

[01:34:27] set when I heard it again. This time, I was sure I wasn't hearing things. I got up and cautiously walked to the landing of the winding staircase. I'm not a big guy, five foot seven, maybe 150 pounds at this time and the stairs creaked under my weight.

[01:34:44] I walked around the entire first floor to make sure I was alone and no one had returned or worse broken in. Before I made my way upstairs to check the first floor, I checked all the rooms in the basement except for the bedroom.

[01:34:58] It was always kept locked and this time was no exception as I headed back down from checking the first floor, however. The door was wide open. Typically this bedroom had a bed, two nightstands, a TV and a walking closet. None of these were there.

[01:35:16] The room was completely empty and I felt like I was in a trance. In the middle of the room was a familiar little girl. It was my sister except this couldn't be my sister. This girl looked like my sister when she was 11 with long bangs.

[01:35:34] My sister is older than me by two years. At the time this happened she was 21 but somehow she was there in the front of me looking 11. But her eyes were wrong. They had no whites. Instead they were all black. I felt like she was looking

[01:35:52] right into me and I got chills all over my body. She smiled at me. I ran out of that room and slammed the door shut behind me. There's something about that too. It kind of reminds me of like that's got almost like a dream

[01:36:07] like a dream logic to it. I mean, obviously it's not a dream but that's what it reminds me of. You know this idea that I don't know if you've ever of course dreaming for you is sort of a new thing. You know I would have dreams

[01:36:19] when I was younger like that where I'd be in a place that's familiar and then I'd come back and something would be wrong about it. And this is kind of what that seems like but obviously this person was awake and you've got the weird doppelganger facsimile of

[01:36:32] the sister but not quite right. Yeah, it's like they've not finished. Creating it or something or it's not really the same thing they've tried really hard and something's not quite right about it. Kind of like some of the deaging technology in the third X-Men movie.

[01:36:54] You know, we tried but it's still they look like, I don't know, wax drag queen figures. We're not sure what happened here but we're going to put this out in our $200 million motion picture anyways. All right, it's going to take one last ad break.

[01:37:10] Don't forget if you're a patron at patreon.com slash go story guys, you don't have to listen ads and then we'll be back with our final story. The train. In the fall of 2012 two friends and I hopped on the southern rail line in Chicago

[01:37:26] and got off at Dunes State Park in Indiana to go camping for the weekend. We were dumbasses who thought we could deal with some light rain and still have fun but it turned out that a major thunderstorm was coming. At midnight our tent collapsed

[01:37:39] and we found shelter in a cement park bathroom. We decided this was a disaster, abandoned all our soaked blankets and tent in a bin and at the first break of daylight decided to hike back to the train station and go home. When we got to the train

[01:37:53] station it was about five in the morning and still mostly dark. The station is a quaint old kind that's really just a box next to the tracks with a little kiosk and some benches. The station was empty and unmaned but the lights were on and the

[01:38:05] doors were open and Unintercom was randomly giving announcements. We were all a little high strong and exhausted from being cold and awake the night before so it was some kind of miracle when we collapsed onto the benches and looked up at the board to see when the first

[01:38:18] train was coming. According to the schedule it was due at 7 a.m. That's when the lights flicked and went off along with the announcements and LED boards. In front of the benches and between us and the platform was a wall of glass and when

[01:38:32] the lights flickered out we heard this loud kind of static sound and then what I can only describe is like a 10 foot wall of wavy green light racing in front of us on the track and continuing east. It was incredibly fast at least

[01:38:45] 60 miles an hour but the light was like a continuous wall that trailed behind it and then dissipated. The only thing I can compare it to is like the northern lights undulating waves and glowing greenish blue color. As soon as it passed by anticipated the lights flicked back on.

[01:39:03] This might have been the funniest moment of my life because me and my two friends could do nothing but stare at each other in shock. It felt like we were in a bad horror movie but then nothing else happened and a few other

[01:39:12] people came to the station to take the 7 a.m. train. We still had time to kill so we walked outside the station into the parking lot which is when I saw a black car parked a ways off down the road. Not only that but a man in a

[01:39:25] totally absurd at least for the area clean cut suit and shiny black shoes and sunglasses was walking up the track next to the building. Some local police officers came and he spoke with them but they wouldn't tell us anything except that the trains were delayed.

[01:39:40] The man in black never entered the station but my friends and I spied on him inspecting the tracks for a long time. Then it was 7, then 8, then 9 and 10 and finally the police told us that the tracks were hit by lightning and five stations were out.

[01:39:55] We hitchhiked to Gary, hey Gary where the next running station was and never heard anything else. So even if the tracks were hit by lightning what the hell was a green wall of light shooting down the track? I've heard of ball lightning being responsible for a lot

[01:40:09] of weird light phenomena but never something like this. And I know Paul we were not going to do any commentary on this one but I was just thinking you know when you when you Google ghosts in Chicago right you come up with stuff like I said like

[01:40:22] Resurrection Mary which is pretty much the story of you know a young woman seen walking by the side of the road who always gets out at Resurrection Cemetery and you know she leaves behind her sweater or what the fuck ever right? And when the person in

[01:40:35] question goes to her house to bring back her sweater it turns out she's been dead for you know whatever she died when the leader of the packs were off the road and you know having just finished reading the Resurrection Mary files by Adam Seltzer he pretty effectively

[01:40:50] deconstructs that story. You know he says that you know there's three possible marries but none of them line up with the the stories because you know one of them dies I want to say a few years after the first story starts. He says there is something

[01:41:06] there you know there is some kind of high strangeness happening in that part of Chicago and certainly other parts of Chicago. But when I see something like this which is so just weird I'm always kind of bummed that the most popular stories from places like this are

[01:41:18] the least interesting ones you know? Yeah well I think it's one of those that there are certain paranormal stories that just seem to have a life of their own we were joking beforehand when I was telling you about that weird Canadian ghost series I discovered Paranormal Portals

[01:41:35] where they're talking about a particular magnetic hill in Ottawa and essentially gave a blow by blow account of exactly the same urban myth that occurs in San Antonio, Texas. It's exactly the same story and neither are true. Yep. So I've often wondered why that particular story seems to

[01:41:55] last there's I mean there's loads isn't there's like couple whose car break down hook man. You know I mean that even happened over here. I mean how's that going to happen over here? I can't remember ever seeing someone with a hook for a hand wandering around ever

[01:42:11] in you know so it's just there's some people with hook for hands who are going to be sending you some pissed off. But but it's just it baffles me sometimes why these stories they're not that interesting or scary either they're just pretty

[01:42:34] I don't know it's just the old you know it's like the old or the heartbroken woman had to kill herself because her husband left her or she had to throw itself out in a window or she was bricked up alive with a child and and you know just

[01:42:49] I would like to think we eventually get to a point where we've shaken down these nonsensical stories because I love especially anything to do with modes of transport it makes me interest or something occurring like in this particular one because you think well this is clearly only started

[01:43:06] in the last hundred hundred and fifty years but why? Yeah I mean I'm sure there's some kind of combination of you know factors including like cities getting larger modes of communication becoming like mass communication becoming more efficient. But but yeah I mean you wonder why

[01:43:27] people flock so readily to the wrong story. You know and not the one where something is actually happening. Like in that same book there might have been another book actually but another book by Adam Seltzer is what I'm saying. I think it might have been the resurrect

[01:43:42] because I read a couple in the run up to this but he said that he's actually received death threats when he tries to disprove the story of resurrection Mary. And I say no not disproved but just maybe again show that OK the popular version of it

[01:43:56] is not correct. There is something happening but it's much stranger. And he said people just weirdly defend the version of it in their head and that I find bizarre. I mean you have one over here the ghost of Bluebell Hill which is another famous hitch

[01:44:10] hiking ghost story from the UK which is a true story and you can trace it back to the tragic events of a of a bride to be being killed on the eve of their wedding by a drunk driver. And people will always dismiss it as urban myth

[01:44:25] or just people misperceiving the road or whatever. That however doesn't take into consideration that there was a witness who has been interviewed on television and states as a matter of fact that he stopped on that road and picked a woman up in a bride dress

[01:44:42] and she disappeared in the car and he went to the police station. Right. Now that is far more interesting than anything I've ever read about Resurrection Mary. Oh, 1000 percent. And even some of the stories he tells in the book, you know, which are other accounts from that.

[01:44:59] I think it's Archer Avenue. They're more interesting than then this again, like nonsensical, you know, after the sock hop is she, you know, she was, you know, whatever in a car accident or something, you know, there's stories with horses of light cantering down the road.

[01:45:15] That's vastly more interesting. But again, people they get kind of invested in the myths. And I guess, again, that's a great takeaway from this episode and kind of what we do here is don't get attached to that kind of stuff, you know, you don't if someone says, OK,

[01:45:30] this particular ghost story, this is not the way it happened. That's OK, because there's plenty of other weird shit out there that's real. Absolutely. And you can't. Be too precious about things. If we want to know more and we. Have to ask difficult questions then what you think

[01:45:49] 20 years ago should not be what you think now when you're dealing with these kind of subjects, because you learn, you grow, you take on new information and you learn what's nonsense. What I knew about the paranormal 20 years ago, probably not worth writing on the back of a stamp

[01:46:02] these days. Fair. I was certainly much dumber. I was also no, OK, never mind. I was going to say I was much under than I actually was. No. Getting old, Paul. Getting old. You're still sexy though. Thank you. That's what I've been saying and everyone's just all

[01:46:18] how did you get in my house and please put your clothes back on. Yeah, yeah, that too. All right, folks, well, that is our show that is high strangeness in Chicago. I hope you enjoyed it again. We would love to hear your stories from Chicago or otherwise.

[01:46:35] Shoot us an email or send us a voice note to ghoststoryguys at gmail.com. And now we're going to take a quick break and be right back with our Ghost Force shoutouts. Hey, creepy people. This is P and W, Haunts and Homicides. I'm Caitlin and I'm Cassie.

[01:47:07] Together we explore stories of the paranormal and true crime throughout the Pacific Northwest. For each episode, we do a tarot reading to help us gain some insight on the topic as we share the facts of the case and our interpretations. You can find our episodes

[01:47:21] featuring true stories from infamous cases such as the misdeeds of Boeing as well as lesser known cases of the US government. Boeing as well as lesser known true crime cases like the murders in tunnel 13, as well as our spooky stories from Pike Place and Raven's Manor

[01:47:40] on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and anywhere else you'd like to listen. Have a creepy day. Hey there listeners, before you reach that skip 15 seconds ahead button, I promise you this isn't an ad. We wanted to take a minute to talk to you about mental health.

[01:47:57] On this show, I've always tried to be as honest and open as possible about my struggles with depression and anxiety because even though we've come a long way towards acknowledging the very real damage these things can do, there is still way too much lingering stigma about

[01:48:11] reaching out for help. And when you start to feel like there's no help, it's easy to start feeling like there's no hope. But Paul has joined me today to remind you there is always hope and there's always help. We're not going to try and

[01:48:25] talk you out of self-harming right now because we know that's not how it works. Instead, what we wanted to do was tell you something now and hope that should things get bad, you'll remember it and make a phone call or send a text message before

[01:48:40] you make any permanent decisions. As someone who knows all too well just how important mental health can be, it's never too late to reach out. In Canada the number to call is 133-456-4566. In the USA the new number to call is 988. That's 988.

[01:49:02] In the UK the number to call is 116-123 or text SHOUT that's SHOUT to 85258. In Australia the number to call is 131114. However bad shit seems it will pass and no matter what your brain might be telling you at any given moment and believe me when I

[01:49:31] say I know this intimately there are people who love you and people who care deeply about how you treat yourself. Should a time come when you find yourself despairing please know that we've both been where you are and there is a way back to the world. Take care.

[01:49:49] Welcome back. As always thanks to the rest of the Ghost Dory Guys family Luke, Anthony, Sarah and Joseph and everyone else who helps make this possible. Don't forget to check out Luke's show Luke Lore now part of the connected podcasts Networking find that on streaming platforms everywhere.

[01:50:04] Joseph is one of the founders of AZ Sports Underground and that is a one stop shop for all things Arizona sports related. And he's also co-host of the show Weird Together which is a YouTube live stream that we do every month and we talk about the latest

[01:50:17] and greatest in horror movies. So you can find a link to Weird Together in the show notes and I'll also include a link to AZ Sports Underground. And of course, thanks to you my friend and co-host the inimitable Paul Bestel, the paranormal Johnny Carson

[01:50:31] host of Mysteries and Monsters. What's coming up on Eminem, Paul? I seem to be fighting off demons most of this month as I've got two episodes dealing with demonic attacks and a couple of witchcraft cases from North America in the 19th and 17th centuries, which are quite unusual.

[01:50:49] One of them is quite amusing as well as diving into the mysteries and legends of Amazonia, which is a subject I've never covered before. And also my first chief that I've interviewed. I've never had the pleasure of speaking to any of the indigenous populations of the Caribbean before.

[01:51:07] So that's a good episode as I very cool hurtle towards my Halloween special. But more of that later. Oh, fabulous. And working up would find John Lai. You can find Mysteries and Monsters across all social media platforms and we're all good and some bad podcasts.

[01:51:24] Let you can find me. I'm on Twitter and Instagram as largely the truth. My interview podcast, largely the truth with Brennan store is still out there on podcast platforms everywhere. And of course, I cohost the monthly live stream Weird Together with Joseph Camau. And again, we talk about

[01:51:40] the latest and greatest and independent horror films. And if you are a patron of the Ghost Story Guys podcast, you also get the audio version of that show. So again, that's weird together. Check the link. Check the show notes for links to that. It's a lot of fun.

[01:51:53] We we we just talked about the Senegalese horror film Salom, which is brilliant and it was a really great conversation, a little more a little more sobering than some of our conversations. It's hard to, you know, you don't want to make jokes about some of the subjects

[01:52:08] covered in that in that film, but very, very good movie. And if you folks haven't seen it, I think it's shutter exclusive right now, but it's it's brilliant. Check it out. As we said at the top of the show, we love our patrons. They are the the turbine

[01:52:21] that drives this great engine. And if you'd like to join that team, head to patreon.com slash ghost story, guys. That's patreon.com slash ghost story, guys. We have weekly bonus shows like host adventures and Book of the Dead. I also just dropped a new

[01:52:35] episode of Sunken Library with the wilderness survival tale Phantom of the Unuch, which is pulled from a 1977 edition of Canada West Magazine, which you are not going to find anywhere else. So check that out again. That's patreon.com slash ghost story, guys. And if you're a patron

[01:52:50] at the twenty dollar level and above, well, then my friend, you are part of an elite club, one we like to call Ghost Force. That's right, patrons of the twenty dollar level and above our members of Ghost Force and get thanked every second show

[01:53:12] in this segment because by God, it sounds cool and, well, frankly, we very fond of it now. Yes, yes, we are. We can even do this voice without really trying anymore. Yeah, it's true. It last time was a little tough because it was my first time

[01:53:25] doing it in this apartment. Now I don't care what anyone thinks of me. So away we go. This time around, the members of Ghost Force are Ethan Serragan, Amy Chamberlain, Carrie Lumbertas, Cheryl Baker, Jeneric Bob, Hannah Brown, Hillary Disassure, Jade Morris, Jason R. Slaughter, Slaughter, Slaughter, Slaughter.

[01:53:52] Jennifer Mullen, Jennifer Sharco, Joseph Como, Kimberly Hansen, Luffy Rugg, Maddie Leatherman, Maranariega, Mark Simler, Peter Gunn, 08.5, Rebecca Brink, Rondersheen, Richard Eastby, Robin Tien, you are the proud, you are the spooky, you are Ghost Force. For real guys, thank you so, so much.

[01:54:26] We really truly appreciate your contributions to the show. And we always have fun doing that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And again, if you want to join the team, patreon.com slash ghostry guys. All right, Paul, any guest appearances coming up for you? Yes.

[01:54:45] OK, there we go. Well, you heard it here first. I've got a couple lined up for November as well as I may be returning to the world of writing for a esteemed publication of the paranormal in the near future. So watch this space.

[01:55:05] Very cool. Well, we will we will watch this space. I was just a guest on the Cinema 9 podcast that is out now. And that is a podcast, a movie podcast obviously hosted by among other people are longtime listener, Travis Roy.

[01:55:20] Of course, we were just talking about Travis's stories earlier on the show. And they had me on to talk about the 1993 Sylvester Stallone classic cliffhanger. So now I had audio. Of course, I had audio problems. So one time someone invites me on their fucking podcast.

[01:55:34] I had my blue. I realized too late what it was. It was my Bluetooth headphones trying to rest control away from my microphone. So yeah, there's there's stretches where I go silent because I can't figure out what the fuck is going wrong.

[01:55:47] But it was still a great time. I got to make lots of jokes and Sylvester Stallone's expense. And and honestly, John Lithgow's expense because his English accent in that film is pretty terrible. Sounded perfect to me. OK, then. Well, again, you heard it here first.

[01:56:06] Sounded like it was from Bury. That's also not going to make much sense, folks. But that was that was another joke from the, you know, full podcast we had before we recorded the full podcast. But yeah, so you can find that everywhere you get your podcast.

[01:56:22] Again, it was Cinema Nine. Big thanks to Travis and Eric for having me on. I had a really great time. And don't forget for any appearance that Paul, me, Luke or Anthony or anyone else is associated with the show do.

[01:56:33] We always put a link at ghostary guys dot com in the blog on the main page. So if you want to listen to those shows, you're not sure where to find them head to ghostary guys dot com

[01:56:40] and you will find a link to all of our appearances there. If you want to pick up some Ghostary Guys merch head on and head to our T public store. You can find that by clicking the link in the show notes

[01:56:49] or by going to ghostary guys dot com and following the link to the store. And that is the best way to do it. I know eventually I know we used to sell signed copies of my book, Strange Little Place. Of course, that is still in the process

[01:57:01] of being reprinted by Beyond the Fray Publishing reprinted in an expanded second edition, I might add. So probably about 40 new pages worth of material, maybe 50. Very excited for when that happens. But for the time being, you can get all your ghostary guys merch needs.

[01:57:15] We actually have a new design heading into the store soon by heading to our T public store via the link at ghoststoryguys.com. Shout out to our composer, Randy Days for Ghosts. Again, Randy Days for Ghosts is a project of film journalist and composer Jerry Smith.

[01:57:30] And if you want to hire Jerry, send them an email at RandyDaysForGhosts at gmail.com. Our theme song radio into the darkness we goes composed and performed by Peter Kursava of Pizzante Music. Find more from him at night harvest recordings.com

[01:57:46] or by searching for Pizzante Music where every stream your tunes. Our story's theme is the future belongs to them now by Hexagram. Find more from them by searching for Hexagram wherever you get your music. Remember, that's Hexagram with two X's, not three.

[01:58:00] I guess that's going to do it. Well, we'll be back in a couple of weeks. But until then into the darkness we go

[01:58:41] when that when that particular secret is unearthed, we will be restricted. Paul, are you going to go fuck with cave people and pretend like you're a god? Yes. OK, you're not allowed to go. That'd be like low key. Yeah, exactly. I was thinking Kang, but yeah, I guess.

[01:58:57] A little more benevolent, a little more mischievous than just straight up people and go about with a box of matches. He's a God. Give me all your shiny rocks. And she told me that my my mouse playing tricks. I mean, I don't know about his eyes.

[01:59:18] Don't you? Yeah, well, at least you can't at least it can brought you back. She's enveloped by a cloud of bollocks. Don't know what's going on with that. Very. Oh, it's all right. It's a night for patients. Yeah, apparently. Oh, what's up?

[01:59:39] Jesus. No, my screen just about Internet just started playing on its own. Oh, OK. How is going on? I'm going to be thinking about this all night. What do you mean? What does any of it mean? That's a mystery. Anyways. Away from my awkward social status.

[02:00:04] You know what we need to do there? Take a shit in the bottom. I love that we're both on the same page. How do you pronounce it? Is it does planes or deplanes? Displanes. Yeah, I've heard about four different ways of pronouncing it. I always say does planes.

[02:00:21] I'm pretty sure it's this plane. Good. Well, that'll do for me. That'll do, Brent. That'll do. By the way, the curtains behind you just started flapping. I mean, that's that could because you can't really see it. But I'll show you exactly how it looks because it's so dark.

[02:00:40] It's a towel and so my head keeps hitting it. Oh, thank God for that. So you're the strange visitor. No, no, no. This is just my shitty. That's very good depth perception. It looks far away in the dark. The magic of the closet.

[02:00:55] Of course, what's going to happen is it's going to open up. I'm going to get sucked back in there. So, you know, yeah, she won't live a ratchie. All right. So where are we here? The jump. The jump is that me or you who has been so long?

[02:01:10] I can't remember who. She'll. OK. I did. I did that staying at Grandma's. Right. That's it. Yeah. She's I forgot that we went crazy. That one. Holy shit. We really went off. That's interior interior design, my friend.

[02:01:28] It takes you to faraway places or I can't think of any good jokes. I'm just papering over the cracks. Boo. Boo. Rooms, I got nothing. Feng Shui. Doors. Foundations, I don't know. Trade of death, horror express. What was that one death line with Donald Pleasant?

[02:02:06] Have you seen that one? Is that the one about the cannibals living in the London Underground? That's the one I watched that the other week. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah, it made me laugh. I think he also says, oh, no, he says the devil's eyes. The devil's eyes.

[02:02:21] Sam Hain. Sam Hain. I never figured out how he fucked that up so bad. I remember watching those movies for years. I thought it was Sam Hain because of fucking Donald Pleasant. So long to. You and the thing about that, what surprises me about that is

[02:02:38] obviously Garpenters' involvement. Surely he would have known. Surely. Well, you'd think, mind you, based on what we saw in Search of Darkness when he's talking about Halloween too, we didn't really give much of a shit. It wasn't very good.

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