Tough Enough Season 3 part 3

What's she gonna do? Brother? When Jeff Townsend media runs wild on you? All right, so I mentioned last week how we had to I know, we reference this is a two part episode frequently throughout the conversation, but actually this was over three hours of content recorded. So rather than have like a two hour episode, hour long episode and one hour, just broke it down to three one hour long episode. So with that being said, we're gonna jump back into the conversation that Bill and I were having about tough enough. You're going to enjoy the rest of this conversation. It's full of great stuff. Episode ten opens up. They're doing leap frogs. Jamie flips over, John gets caught on him, goes face first, and the mat We continue with these drills. There's an air where Jamie runs into Matt's head with I don't know her shoulder or something knocks him clean out. You make the comment his eyes are still lost over when he comes to Yeah, it's now we're moving right, and now everybody's charged up, and now it's getting more intricate, and John is the athlete, so everything's effortless for him and Jamie struggling and this one's trying to the timings off and knocked him out, just knocked him out, like and this is a moment. We also don't know where we do now about the head injuries. We weren't quite there yet, yeah, because it was like we we did our best to and we had medical people take but you know, it goes back to years that, years ago away, I got my bell rung or something like that. Okay, sit down for a minute. You know who knew about you didn't know? Yeah I could cussion lest someone told you so. Yeah. Yeah, fast forward to cover a day. I made sure like when we get the PC that headgear was mandatory. Made everybody mad, but it was mandatory, and especially if you were coming back off the head injury or something like that. But at that time, yeah, there was no protocols or anything. It was just get your wits back about you. Let's see how you're feeling and go from there. Yeah. Also important to like I said earlier, these they do not have prior training. It's not a later season. Let's see here, Justin is really struggling in the ring. You say to him, it blows my mind. You have no comprehension of anything you've been taught. You told him, he's a wet noodle and the drizzling shits. Here's why I'm laughing about that because till this day, Justin and I are buddies. We have an ongoing football Whereval were with the Giants and the Bears. We communicate and speak throughout the year all the time since those moments, because um, I think he knew, and I hope he still knows that when I said I meant, I probably just probably could have said it in a different way. But at that point in the game, you couldn't forget the things that you've already done. Like, we make mistakes, but let's not make the same ones. So how do you fire someone up after all this time, call him out on it and make him, you know, like yet Matt me proved me wrong, do something, you know. But yeah, as far as the person that kid is, I see kid because he's he'd always be kids to me. Super great man. UH think the world of him. Tab We still get a log to this day. But um, he was anything but the drizzle and shits. But at that time, like I'm calling you out, proved me wrong like that, That's that's why you're here. I'll tell you a quick story. I coached high school basketball while I was in college at a local private Catholic school and coach there. He still holds high regard on the winning record here in the state, in the state of Indiana, he's up there in the top like twenty, which this is a huge freaking basketball stagment. I don't know if you know that or not. French, he was a very stern fella. He yelled, he cussed, and they're the most well respected kids I've ever seen in a high school. At one point, though, we were doing this drill and this kid executed it wrong. I don't remember, I don't remember the kid's name, and he said what The coach said, what the hell was that? And the kids said, I thought, I thought, And coach cut him off. He said, you know what happened to the little boy that thought? He farted? He shit his fucking pants, and that kid's eyes just got huge. Then after that, he didn't make an issue next time. So it kind of reminded me of a moment like that. Yeah, it's it's it's one of those, uh for people who appreciate that the humor, and it's one of those coaching moments. Yeah. So I figured, dude like that. Okay, it's been sometimes. Show how messy Jonah is. He doesn't clean up after himself. It moves onto the ribbing awl with you and Al here shaving cream snowstorm. Bill. Walk us through your experience with this, because this was not the first time you and Al had done it. And I also want to comment on the yellow mustang I kept showing you in the oh Man, I have a terrible story about that mustang. Um. So we we decided that they you know when I say they probably was Jonah ninety percent and everybody else because everybody ain't Jonah on to be the mouthpiece of the group and that stuff. So Al and I had gotten together. We actually met and a toys our us that afternoon to buy masks and to buy shaving cream and to quickly duct tape things so with Nate would explode or expand it be more of a mess. And we were fully prepared. And they said that we would never get them. Well we did. The old Blues brothers down the driveway of this mansion and we weren't black, and they were asleep and blowing up sham and cream everywhere. Then they were chasing us with him that time. We blew them all up with jam and cream. I actually went to puncture the one can and put the screwdriver all the way through my thumb into the other side and hit an artery. It was it was complete mayhem. But Al and I had more fun. We were like two two schoolgirls, gig lit all the time outside. We were so serious and we were doing the We we had, you know, the masks on and they couldn't find us. And it was a strategic We knew, okay, this room, this room, this room into this room, you know. So it was funny to make it operation. It was it was. It was a definitely a secret squirrel operation and we got the best level. So this is not your first time doing this. It didn't see did you the snowstorm? Is this a long lived rib or what? This was the first time Alan I had done it? Oh? Okay, okay, So it's not the first time it's been done, but it's the first time him and I collaborated on getting the house. Um, there was a lot of cheese, there was a chamby, There's a lot of damage that they kept showing you in that convertible Mustang that was my car. So here's here. You were talking about ribs. Here's the rib. Here. I am in a studio apartment with a Murphy bed. The first two nights stay in the department, I couldn't find the bedroom or my bed, so I slept on the sofa. Called the manager. They showed me how you pulled the bed out of the wall and then you have to put it back up. So there's the rib. So I got the small apartment thing. And then my car choice is the convertible Mustang, which goes back to the ten pounds of poop and a five pound back thing it. But I thought it was great because you were in the Calabas Mountains and it's not like I went sightseeing or anything. It was just a ridiculous vehicle that I had. Unfortunately, again into a huge uh we got hit head on by um she's a fall. I think you get hit on by a drunk driver. Um there. And actually it hit us so hard coming through the light that the car was in all four sides of the intersection. When they came looking for the people that were in the car, me and my wife were on the grass and the like, where are the people in the car, Like we're them and like, there's no way it was so that yellow Mustang, and that secured the fact that A will never be in a convertible again, and b will my wife will never go into a Mustang. That was that roup was on me that car. Wow. Yeah, that's the things you wouldn't have known right till I was brought up. Yeah. Yeah, Next you go to professional stuntman set up. You're jumping off these oh platforms. I guess Eventually Jonah ruins it by not doing it as he's told and the guys pulled the professional stuntman pull the blood because it's not safe, and the other Cadescence legitimately seemed to be upset by this. Yeah, his his antics are now costing them opportunities to either shine or you know, stand out for whatever. Reathon to get at his antics now it's clearly in his mind. He made it. This is his and everybody loves him and he's funny and he's the haha guy. But he's now costing everybody else opportunities and taking things away from him. We'll segue into the next thing because it kind of connects to that again. Chrispin Wah shows up to the next filmed training session, he explains to them the importance respect and that's how it makes the business work. Is actually how he quotes it, called wrestling an art form and said it has to be everything to you. He actually trains with them in the ring for a while. Jane Up mouths off at something and Chrispin Watt gets onto him and it makes the comment about that or you could just get out of there, basically hit the road. I always hear stories Bill about the We'll talk about Crispin Watt more one day, but how big that respect thing is to him. There's a story out there somebody was and I don't remember who, and a younger wrestler was being shitty to either somebody like the Sean Michaels or Undertaker, I don't know you. And Chris ben Wah made them do five thousand or five hundred or whatever squads and he did it the whole time with them. Yeah. You always hears stories about Chris ben Wah and respect. Yeah. I think it comes from where you come from, who your coaches were, what you were, you know, what you wanted to achieve in this business and how you wanted to be perceived in this business, And what did you say about every Canadian, every Canadian wrestler worker I've ever met. You know, it was about respect. It was about there's a certain there's a certain level of respect that's deserved. Then there's a level of respect that's earned, and then there's people who need to respect everyone until they earned those levels of respect. And at that time, Chris had no problem being the guides to prove that point. And that further separates Jonah from the rest of the group. And that's when you starts to realize, like the kids, a goof, that's the bottom light. We build him long enough to know he's a goof and he he has no respect. So everything that everybody's been talking to about you know, it doesn't work. So then then you have a guy who, to your point, well everybody who says anything wrestling wise, that respect was a big thing. It was. And so how are you gonna how are you gonna blow that opportunity to work with him? Yeah, it has to be everything to you. It's very strong words, and that shows the importance of respect and wrestling, But it also shows how ridiculous wrestling can be. What other work would you would would you say it has to be everything to you. Okay, I get an athletes say things like that, but yeah, I mean, ultimately, that's not what life is about. We know that. But that is what wrestling is about, no doubt. And I love wrestling, don't get me wrong. But to me, like you look back at that now, Bill, you've been out of it for a while, that's a very strong statement to say. Yeah, it's a strong statement. I think it can still mean a lot to you. But if it means everything to you, when it's over, it's over. I don't want to go into a old different um diatribe about that, but that's the But that was the mindset of the old school guys, like this has to be your everything. This couse you know it's it's the mafia, right, This comes first before your family, before anything else, before anniversaries and birthdays and holidays and time off. This has to be the most important thing you do, and otherwise you don't belong here. We're getting close to the end of this episode. Here. Episode ends the improv class. Justin does terrible at it appears to be terrible. Joan is struggling with his emotions, had talked to his girlfriend and to Chris, Ben was saying, it has to be everything to you. It's hitting Joan a hard right now. He goes out, he gets wasted. That's how he deals with it. He drinks a lot. Episode next, episode eleven opens up. Joana is talking to Al about his concerns. The question is will wrestling be my life? Should it be my life? That's why Janah struggle is and we'll move on. We'll come back to that. Contestants are advancing with training, showing do in variations of suplexes. Then Trish Stratus comes over for dinner. The contestants had to prepare for it. During the dinner, Big tells them that there will be a cut tomorrow, but Trish stratis to talk about an amazing performer and everything that she was able to pick up on and just improve from starting out from scratch. She was amazing and she might be one of them. She might be the best dive ever. Women's wrestler, diva, whatever you want to call her, Yeah, I call I call her wrestler, I call her I call her both. I call her a diva, a wrestler, a worker, entertaining. Whatever she watched, she deserves all the accolade because she came into not knowing a single thing, but she she really sponge, and she asked questions and she wanted to learn, and even if she didn't know what, you want to know what it was or how to do it and all these things. And she talk about coming out of your shell and really going after something. And again she's another one if and I don't mean she shouldn't say she Trish is another one that that inspiration should of listening to her story and how she attacks life and now look at her now her brand and who she is and what she's doing and all these things and so the you know, they had great examples through through you know, throughout the whole series. But I agree. When I think of Trash, I think of how quick and how much work she put into picking up on the actual wrestling. If somebody like Sable would have done that, she would have been elevated way beyond, even more than she was. I think of like Tray would be in the further version of her. Yeah, and better in a lot of ways, obviously, But if somebody like Sable would have that kind of work ethic, can you towards a wrestling can you imagine. Yeah, if Tory Wilson would have had access to tris stratuson WCW, Tory Wilson would have become so much more as well. Because Tory was very coachable, she adapted. Well, it wasn't things she wasn't afraid to do, you know, but there was a and if they could have had Trish's work ethic and then you know, you get down that hole of well, the Bella's are right there with that, all those things. But Trisha was amazing. And I think again, some people took it very seriously and enjoyed the time, and other people were trying to be mac Daddy and all these things. And the guest is always telling someone always shows their colors when we have a guest. Yeah, I agree. So the night ends with them because they did. He did say that's going to be a cut tomorrow. The night hands with them telling each other how much they love each other and how awesome experience it's been together. We're starting to get there, Bill, We're all that we're closing up here. They're starting to realize and fully take in how meaningful this experience is going to have on their career, whether it's wrestling or not, and to be honest, their life right, they're taking that up right now. Right, the closer it gets like, wow, that could be me. But then wow, what have I done now? So all the things that we've hoped we're happening or starting to happen. But yeah, they're starting to realize the experience there having and some of the friendships that I know still go on to this day. So it's cool to see that progression. We didn't. We don't get to see that a lot, you know, with people. So um when when we got to see how close they became in the ringing around each other, it was very cool. This is where you kind of show some emotion here also, Bill. So the next scene shows the trainers discussing the upcoming cuts. It said John is great and ahead of the others. Of course Jamie needs constant but jamie downfall might be she needs constant reassurance and coaching. Yeah, it doesn't seem reasonable that Justin will be successful in this one day. It's noted. The talk turns to Jonah, who you and Al defend, but Big was very upset with the fact of the whole self doubt and he had been burnt earlier in the season, like we had talked about, he didn't like Jonah doubting himself like he had earlier in the episode of shown. Yeah, yeah, I think I think Big was on the defense because of you know a lot of that stuff that happened early on was because of Jonah and his girlfriend. And now it's Joana and his girlfriend again. And now when it comes down to the reality for Jonah, he's seeing that things are a little tougher than he thought, and well, maybe this girl's weren't important, or maybe this and that. And I know that that John R. Big was really pissed because, like you said, you said the perfectly. He wasn't gonna get played again. Like so, once he showed the self down, he gave He gave Big at that point no reason to believe in him that he should go further. Okay, the contestants enter the facility. It shows you very emotional, Bill, You're you're in tears at this point. You say, they all deserve to be here. You can also see Al is really dreading this. His body language is full of emotion. Justin gets cut. Teammates are very sad to chair the grew up. You take them to the local Yankee Doodle and they meet Bradshaw. He had just had a surgery. I believe he explained to them how grateful they should be and for for the passion and opportunity they have ahead of them. J L. Another guy that grinding, grinding and grind and sticking to it and really an underrated champion that doesn't probably get talked about enough. Yeah, yeah, they John is, um he's extraordinary. And his journey from Mexico and all the early days in Texas and all the things that he's been to Don and his appreciation for the business, um, and for the people in the business. You know, John's one of those get respect, you respect guys. Um. So, his his message is similar but different than everybody else's. It's he's a legit tough guy to you, right yeah, and then like um, he takes it as well as he gives it, and he's letting you know, this is what it is, this is life, and this is what you gotta want. And you know you can't just you can't just play the guy you want to be your kid. It's got to be who you are. Um. So I uh and again I relationship, so I have to this day John's one of them, and so another Greek motivator, another guy. That kind of makes it start to sink in, like, wait a minute. They clearly can't be all telling us this because they've been set up to tell us like they're understanding link from all kinds of walks of life. They're getting this this education now. So the physical, the physical, they're to me, they're almost looking forward towards the physical because the other stuff sort's weighing on their head more than anything, the lifestyle, the being away the loved ones, their respect, but the training, the this that you're not going to be out partying, you're gonna be doing this, and it's so it's all starting to come together. It's back to the training session here and it's all starting to come together. And that actually what you just said lines over this perfect. They're doing cross bodies off the rope. You do say something the John that I noted, do not get too cocky or I'll knock your ass off. But no. The episode ends though with them all doing moonsalt successfully off the top rope. You guys are telling them, don't hold back. That's said a lot. Everything like you just said, the physical part is coming together now for these new for them, new to wrestling, and the emotional part is what's really hitting here, and that's how the episode ends. This the boon salt part was really cool because that gave you the courage to keep doing stuff. Right. To me, that's a that's a right of passage. I treated that as a right of passage, Like, here's this thing that's special to me that I make my living end and I know you can do it. You have to just do it, you know, those kind of things. So those were cool. I hate I hated that some of those episodes maybe look human and like I cared, But sometimes that happens. We're going to get to that here because this next episode, wake Up. This is really the book end of it. The next two will be nothing. This is huge, Bill. We got to get your honest take on this though. Yep So episode twelve, Big Inners of the facility during the training session and tells them he has surprise for them. He introduces Jacqueline, Chob and Bob Holly. He then brings out previous tough Enough contestants Maven, Kris Nowinski, Ndia, Linda, and Jackie. The previous contestants have a five on five match with the new contestants. You seem very proud of the way they performed, Bill, and it was really meaningful for them to have them, um, those previous contestants there with them, Yeah, because they got a chance for them to see where they they those the now veteran contestants were where they were not too long ago, and they see the progression and even went like Chris didn't win, Yeah, and that was the thing, like, look who's in front of you and who your winners are, and like in that group, Chris was the only one who didn't win, right, Linda and Jackie woman and then yep, he was signed immediately the if I remember correctly, almost freaking immediately Billy Kris Newinsky was signed. Yeah. Yeah. I just think it gave them a great idea of where they could be in a short amount of time and just watch them all jelly. He sat back and got to watch somebody else deal with them and know that Okay, that's safe, they're doing that good, everything's moving good. So that was a good point for me as a coach and someone who spent time with them. I was really impressed and happy with that part of it. This is the moment that's talked about in this season so much, and let's get a real honest answer out of this. It has been talked about a lot, but I haven't heard I've heard so many different things. I'd like to hear your opinion on it. Let me do the breakdown. An eight man tag matches announced Chris, Jonah, Bob and Bill versus Matt, John Chavo and al really good stuff between going back and forwards, Bob Holly gets tagged in Matt's in the ring, Bob legit kicks Matt and the ribs a couple blows to the back of the neck, grabs him by his hair, throws him into the corner. While in the corner, he chops it, chops the dog shit out of him, which that's what Bob Holly does. Yeah, And at this point I'm thinking he's just going rough and he proceeds to stomp him down and as he's down, he kicks him in the jaw. He kicks him in the face, particularly the eye, basically beating the shit out of him. He's literally beating the shit out of Matt. Here, Bob comments on a cut scene, I'm being rough for a reason, not because I want to be, not because I can be. But I'm trying to teach them that professional wrestling is not an easy game. Matt comments that he didn't really understand what was going on, but he knew he needed to get through it. At the end of the match, it's shown that Matt goes out of his way to shake his hand and thinks him, what, Bob Polly took liberties on this kid, and it will get to like when you come by and visit the kids of it. Yeah, Bob Holly's talked about this and he basically just pulled it off. Like why do you think he kind of like you think I wasn't told to do it? Why do you think I did it? Like, I mean, did anybody tell Bob Holliy to go in there and kick the shit out of this kid? I don't know, no one. No one would ever say go in and, yeah, kick the shit of anybody. But we'll go back to when I when we talked about how I started, like you've always had Al always had the toughest of the tough as his partner, Taz. Bob Holly built him up. But that was Bob's persona in the in the ring, you know what I mean. Um, the other thing I will set it up with, is NTB pick Matt as their golden boy. Everybody was told that Matt was their golden boy. MTB every day was trying to do what what else can we do with Matt? And I'll stand by, no, we don't do it that way. You'll have to it'll get there organically or whatever. So looking back on it over and over again, there's a few lessons that should have been taught there that weren't taken the right way. Listen that Bob, that was Bob physical. Heck yeah he was physical. He wouldn't kick the Undertaker in the head like that. He wouldn't kick you in the head. But so I'm gonna go it a little bit of camera angle, a little bit of effects. But what's the one thing And here's goes back to the things that we don't show. We tell people how to react and be safe in these things. But when someone's coming at you, and this is just the meat, here's where I get in trouble in two twenty three. If someone's kicking at you like that, you're gonna sit there like that, or you're gonna do what you know what he knows. Now I'm not I'm not defending Bob and I'm not sticking up for Matt. All I'm saying is you had a veteran with a kid who was trying to do the right thing. We didn't know what it was, and he took a butt whooping. He took a butt whooping. But I'll say this, and I don't know if it's been said, if if if Bob wanted to earp Matt, it wouldn't have taken that long. And because of the fact that Al Chovel and I did not jump in to stop it, we we couldn't have been too concerned about the physicality, you know what I mean. And I'm not saying it was Boston Bill, because it was. He took a butt whoop it. But you weren't going to have Al and Bill and Javill let that happen one We're not going to let it happen on film, right, we know we're not going to let it happen on TV. But that was the point of that episode, and it was a big learning point and a big turning point in the whole show. Everybody learned something by wanting what happened to Matt. But MTV had a lot to do with how that was put together and to really build the story of how Matt the Golden Boy was beat up by a bully of things like that. Nope, there's no question was a physical Yes, did he I don't know if he took liberties. I just though he did an old bat. But like I said, if he was taking liberties and doing it above and beyond, you had three veterans and three grown men that working to let that happen, you know. So that's what that's that's the rumored in the window. That's a big thing on the internet. And that's even what Bob said. But I mean to me, he's he kicking him in the head. I mean, oh, he he kind of coupled, he stopped. Yeah, Bob, Bob getting too much in my opinion, And I got a lot of respect for Bob Holly, but damn yeah. And but then again right, so so here we are again, not only are the kids putting themselves out there, we're putting ourselves out there. So that's in his whole career. If that's what Bob Holly has eat for now because he banged on the kid. Yeah, and a lot could be said about that, but that's something that's talked about more than anything from this season. Yeah, maybe more than anything from Tough Enough. Yeah, that's that's definitely in the top three. Yeah, yeah, Bob, Bob definitely uh put a put a stiff on him, we'll say, shakes his hand. So let's talk about how this plays out after that. The rest of the night, you can tell Matt is really out of it physically and mentally. While at dinner, Al mentions that at I have al, I think if Matt can't handle this situation, you shouldn't be in the business. And you at one point said that is Bob Holly all day long. And the next morning Matt looks and he's acting like he's showing signs of a concussion, let's say. But he is also mentally confused. He says he feels like his trust was abused. The team is worried about him. They actually Jonah gives you a call for help. You come over to comfort them, And this is a quote from you, Bill. I'm gonna swear there are motherfuckers who are going to push your buttons. Every night on the road, people push my buttons. I want to kill him because as a man, I swallowed more than my share. The bigger men's swallow shit that they don't want to swallow. You choose. You chose to beat it or let it beat you. And you praised him for telling him and he did the right thing and told him that he was the type of kid that draws people to him and tears. He tells you that you made a difference for him that day, and thank you. I don't know what I can add to that. I remember that conversation. It was a simple to me just to be honest as a point of I've been with this kid for so many weeks and months now, We've developed a relationship, rob and I feel like, here's here's here's the build upon experience. I'm always honest. I'll always tell you my feelings or my opinion on it and do with it what you will. But I needed him to know that. You know, he's not the only one to feel that way. All all these things, but they meant a lot that he that he went through it. It's something that it didn't make sense of the time to people watching it for the first time. To this day, it won't make sense, but it really to me to find Maddie because he stayed true to who he was and he understood. He now understood when um lack of a better term, when he had to be tougher. And it wasn't tough for Matt angry tougher. It's just thicker skin because you're walking into a world you don't know in all these things. But I remember that was a very emotional time because Joey did call and they said Bill, And when you get that phone call, you just go, you know. So we we had a really good long talk about it. And I think the other the other guys that were sitting there too, I think it helped them in their decisions even after the show, you know. So it I mean, I'm just as you're reading it, I'm just sitting here reliving the whole thing. And it was very h's that's as real as it got, you know. So yeah, and then your emotions and the timing here seems to be terrible. You get a call from Chavo telling you that Rocco died in the ring of a heart attack. You tell them to remember what they are doing and why they are doing it. You are in tears. Really a group hug I'm getting goosebumps actual right now talking about it, because I've seen it in my head. I'm picturing it, I'm reliving watch watching it. I can't imagine being there, being there, but Rocco died in the ring. You are just devastated, and these kids are now moments later what appeared to be you were definitely the same day at the house. You could tell by all the clothes on and stuff. They're comforting you now, Bill, I uh yeah, yeah, you know. Here you go, you're you're you're controlling someone else and trying to reinforce what they've done. And here's the life that we lead and the things that happened and all these and then you have to deal with life. Right, So here comes life on the phone call. And I just devastated. It took it took everything out of me. One of my dearest friends broke you into the business correct or as a part of it. Yeah, he gave me. He took me when he met me, he started taking me everywhere he went and just try this and do this and okay, and he took me on my first European tour and I mean we were was tight. Were thigg as Steves. We did everything together in and out of wrestling, and it just was devastating because here I am on the other side of the country and my best friend just died in a wrestling and now you're just so let's go back to the lesson. Now I'm in a position. I have a job to do. This is my career. Yeah, and I have a family. I have a family problem, and I have to make a decision. And you know, without a doubt, I made the right one. But I had to go say goodbye to my to my brother. But that's I think that un planned, unneeded lesson to those kids really made an impact on them. It certainly changed things for me. But yeah that uh, as they say, right, you could have you could have written better TV that week, but it was devastating. Like right now, I am up in my throat and I'm gonna be thinking about Teddy the rest of the night. But h me too. And I'm not even you. I don't know if you could tell just just liking you, knowing you, I could feel it. This is this is like television. You cannot like you said, right, Uh, what a correct like what a moment? It tugs at the heart and the thing. The thing about I'll say this, I know certain like sometimes people thank the crew and production and things like that, that whole group really went out of their way to console me while I was there and checked up on me. And then when I came back, I literally flew flew to New Jersey and then went to the services and then flew back to work when they were right there again and everybody was you know, it was that moment of Okay, we know you're about to be a complete drill sergeant again, but hey, we're glad you're back and let's get back to work and all that stuff. So it's the lessons that keep getting taught where we're immeasurable. Yeah, and I don't want to drag this out forever. I can, I know, retired, But to me, Bill, like we go from this moment here of what the hell is wrong with professional wrestling with this whole Bob Holly incident, then we can't we can't relate to it at this point in time as a fan. Then just like in an instant moment, you the situation that happens brings us back to reality. Maybe professional wrestlings isn't so crazy. This is life yeah, and that's what I took away and that's what I'd noted. The episode ends by Shawn Michael's coming by telling them to work hard and have fun. Then a less successful rib of operations Snowstorm two. They were more prepared and they joke was really almost on you guys, although you did get them, but they were ready for it. So it ends and the rest of this and we'll go into the next episode of Knock it Out, but I'll give you minute to comment here feel good moments from here on out. But yeah, the television, it's like a roller coaster this point in time. As we're going towards the end, we're almost there. It was amazing to uh, like, I saw the show the finished product, and that was my first, um, first time dealing with what about everything else that happened? Wow, how they how they edited this and cut to this and made this appear a certain way on TV. And that's why I say, going back to the Bob thing, you can cut and edit that to a certain way and it's really man man man handling. Um. But it was very it was very um interesting at the end of the whole thing to watch it back and go what if because for me, I was there and I lived it. So, like you said that, the roller coaster of just the journey was really cool, but to see how it really played out was amazing. Yeah, by the time we're getting to the end, it's it's it's clearly, you know, it's personal to everybody. Als invested, Ivy's invest and I'm invested, Bigs invested, and the remaining the remaining cats, they're fully invested in what they're doing. And it's good. But you know why it's good, Bill, because a lot of it's real. How dare reality TV be real? It was the only thing we couldn't control was how they put the episodes together. Yeah, they have another whole show, another whole season of it if they use the stuff they Okay, we'll get Episode thirteen really the last episode here, besides the finale of an announcing the winner, episode opens up with John wrestling al crazy athletics showing alb makes the comment that John is the first person to shooting star Press off the mat. He did it. He did it. At this moment here, the trainers to that. You guys proceed to explain the strength of everybody, all the contestants. But what an amazing showing by John by John Morrison here. Yeah, yeah, he's just and he had he had it the whole time. And then you it's that thing of the progression of training a talent. We know what you want to do, do, we're asking you to do, and when the gates open and your coach says, okay, now you better be able to do it. And that's what he did. And that's that's like the best feeling as a coach to be in there one of your cats, knowing how good he is and then to see it. You knew right then and there this kid's did. He was the like I said, he was the goods in episode one. So the progression of it and the sea how it came, I think the whole everybody who watched the show went wow, who is this guy? Yeah, it was the moment when you knew he was gonna win. Yeah, if there was ever a doubt, which there wasn't for most people, probably, Hey, healed it. He was the one ribbing finale. Here before the outside run, the contestants execute their prank of removing the tires from al Snow's suv. Everybody took this really well. It was a good finale to the overused term rib. Here, they would trying to figure out what to do, what to do, and I think someone who will remain nameless brought up taking the tires office car and they're like, why do we do that, dude, And well, you're gonna have to miss lot. You're gonna have to you know, you can't eat lunch and then be gone for another So they took turns and then you had to teach them how to take the tire off. Um, so it was it was so the rib was on us at the end because I'm trying to help and they can't get the damn tires off. It just it just culminated to it was the worst rib ever. But it was so fun to watch it unfold and happen and then I'll just kind of farts on the whole thing, and um, it was great. They feel like your kids here, Bill, Yeah, they think they just when you think they paid attention, they might grasp a little bit of it. They're still so far away from it. But it was fun to watch, man. It was fun because they all they were all a part of it. They were all so damn proud of it, weren't they It's like you're watching your kid be so proud of Yeah, we're gonna get out. We're gonna get them, and they took great pride and trying to do that a lout at what a moment. Okay, Rick Flayer stopped by, tells them to be proud. They should be proud to be a professional wrestler. And only wrestlers understand this. This is starting to sum up this crazy thing that we're talking about here. Taz comes in immediately. They're all intimidated. He mentions they better be ready to wake up early tomorrow. Bill isn't going to be here because, like he said, you were out of town. He's going to take them to the canyons. They are afraid because they remember the previous seasons and the ordeals that went down there. Taz tells them he'll be stopping by that night. They grill for him and play video games with him. He tells them they won't be going to the canyon and stead they'll be going to SmackDown. Good moment for Taz. There shows his softer side as well, and he is not one to want to show his softer side. Yeah, so you know at that time he was the one of the lead common commentators on SmackDown, and so so he you know, his persona had changed just a little bit character wise, so he stayed, you know, he's always that's who, that's who Tas is. But it was, yeah, it was. It was a fun little piece to go, Okay, build out here and I'm taking you to the canyon. They're like, oh crap, it's a nice feel good moment. They're getting to go to the show now and they really get get the front, the front row view of everything that goes on. Yeah, and let me say this, the previous seasons they almost over exposed them to the behind the scenes. This season was strategically much lower level and done well because this is like their moment where they get to go put it all together and see it. Yeah. So previous seasons they're like, you're going to Monday Night roll halfway through the season. Well, here they're going to SmackDown and they've had all this time to take all of this in and you can see they're having the time of their life backstage, meeting everybody, watching the whole entire process, and it means just so more damn much more to them than it would in the other seasons, this was executed very well. Yeah, yeah, this really proud of this season, really proud of the work that was done and the brand. Tough enough, but the the the that group of kids really made it easy. I say that like you always say that after when you're in the moment, it's like long days, long night's all this blah blah blah. But they made it easy. And where we got to that point of the series, you know, it was all good. They were where they needed to be. I think we mission accomplished, and I think the world got a better view of not only what it takes, but what the actual superstars are going through and deal with them. Things like that, So everybody got a little behind the curtain to look at that. Tough enough, but definitely a proud moment of mind that that whole street again here they strategically bring in vents right earlier in the seasons. Him and Kevin Dunne, we're doing interviews, a bunch of crap that was overdone. They run it. They it's set up as if they run into events. Okay, in a crossing, He asked them, this is really what they want to do. He says, it takes a lot of passion to do this night in and night out. There is nothing like this experience and good luck that's it. Not sitting down interviewing with Vince McMahon, just that moment in time, a reality check that you know, a softer side events, but he's got business to go take care of elsewhere, and just but also taking a moment to acknowledge them. Yeah, and there was about one hundred and fifty other people there. They wish they would have got that time and that speech from Vince. That doesn't that you know, that didn't especially then, that didn't come freely and easily for Vince to stop and deal with everyone, Not that he wouldn't want to. The guy's a busy man, and he took the time out and again all the pieces are falling into place and they're starting to understand the commitment and what's need to pursue this thing. The rest of the episodes show and packing up talking about the experience, it's emotional how you start to see how close everybody has grown together and you probably can't really get it at the point across clearly how much time you spent with these people and you guys all spent together this is the end of it, big moment for almost three and a half months something like that, three and a half four months between between the time we went out there for the final twenty five, to get to the thirteen, to get to whatever it is, and it was that's it. It was time to go home. We knew two we're going to be shipped off to developmental. We weren't sure if we were ever going to see the other ones again. It was time for us to make up for the four months we missed on the road, so we had to go back, you know, we had to go back to work, work, work, work, work. Yeah. So it was it was a great experience, but it was what a cool ride, man. And I will say that the way it was put together really told a great story of the process and um, you know, so many moments, you know, yeah, let's knock out the result here. Yeah. I don't know how much longer it was a time between that last episode and the results, but seemingly a while. Uh so they do some pretty ww so could at putting together these video packages? Man, Yeah, oh gosh, it's just to me, it's like night and day between WW and AW. The production value is through the roof. It's it's unbelievable they can and I say this, sometimes it end and it's not. I don't mean in a bad way. Sometimes the packages are better than the The packages sometimes tell the story so much better than the physicality. It's they're they're amazing what they do. Absolutely so this is obviously showing the highs and lows of everybody, particularly these end contestants. It's announced John wins, Then it's announced Matt wins. John goes on to continue to wrestle. He's had a successful career, Bill, to be honest with you, he's achieved a lot, He's done a lot. Uh, he's done well for himself. Yeah, Matt gets his developmental starts to have he is it a tumor in his brain and uh so, Yeah, Mac got hit in a match and I think he was with a chair um which led to either concussion or concussion protocol. So when they did the m I or I or something like that, whatever the process was, they found the tumor on his in his brain and that that's that's how that whole process started off. Yeah, he comes back after treatment, but then he sadly does pass away at a very young age. Tragic, way too early for his time, which kind of hits home with you talk to us about these two guys here to to in this episode, John and Matt. I mean, for me, utmost respect for both both men to watch John. You like he knew what John was going to do. He said this as we talked through you know, these episodes about him and this series of Tough Enough, and you knew what he was going to do. I mean, you just knew, and you knew he was going to take his lumps, and he was going to go through the trials and tribulations of being a rookie and all these things. But his athleticism and his desire pushed him farther faster than other people. And that's just my opinion. But he's such a success in and out of the ring. He's still still at the top of his game at what he's doing. Yeah, he's super creative, which he's always been and so it's it's going I'm glad it's going well for him, you know, I'm glad he's still doing what he loves to do. And as these other opportunities that wrestling has afforded him. That with Maddie, Maddie was getting ready to tag. They were bringing him and the miss up together as a tag and he was supposed to start on the road on some live events, I believe first. But I know they were looking at him and him and Mike to start tagging because they've done a little bit at the bet Metal with us and ovw UM. I mean, Matt Mac's journey is different to me than wrestling. Getting to know him. Um. You know, he was a man of faith, always was, so he had a unique way of looking at things and tried to see the best. But he never once Um, he never you know, went down the whole of feeling sorry for himself or anything else. He knew he had things to do. Um, what he wanted to do. And it goes back to the thing and it didn't have anything to do with wrestling. The good part was wrestling gave started his platform for him because people knew who he was. Um. But what a shame for that young man, you know, to to leave us as early as he did. U. He lovely wife and I know they had a happy life together, and it's just a it was a shot because you got used to, you know, you seeing him and even if you talk to me follows social media and you just see the good things he was doing and you know, wanted to give back to the business chiropractor or you know, physical therapy and stuff like that. That's what he was doing. And yeah, just a it was it was sad. It was sad when Maddie left us. He's a good kid. For a start to finish, this is the Bill Dumont experience, and a nutshell here, Bill, we are going through wrestling tales here, wrestling stories, but life is more than that. We have talked about this season and tough enough for I don't know, Bill, four hours. And I'll say one thing, even if nobody listened to this, just for me to have this experience with you directly, it is a huge thing and I appreciate it. But to me, this sums up the build hum On experience. Man, this is incredible stuff. It's not like incredible in a good way always either, It's just the emotions that life brings us. Bill. This is showing that. Yeah, it's it's this is gonna be a lot of fun and I truly hope this is what it was going to be, the built right to build them out experience. Let's get a little bit behind the curtain on some things, and and we can talk them through and uh, entertain, educate, and then kind of let people into what really goes on and not everything you hear is what you you know what you hear, and and so it's just perspective. But um, I like the journey Man. This is a lot of fun. Yeah. I like to reminisce about those things too, because you know, the good thing for me is none of it's changed. It's always been this way. So the story when we do this in our fifty year reunion and we talk about this show, I'm probably gonna say the same things I just said today because it's that's that's just what it is. So that's the build them out experience, Right, You're gonna get it, yeah, you know, up front and honest, and sometimes it's it's gonna be really cool and sometimes it's gonna be whole, and you're gonna to get in a lot of parts and as this content, Yeah, hopefully we get support emails from uh, you know, Bob the Handler cast member what was he called Bob Organs cast Bob or cast i yet cast huh as a persona of its own out there Bill Bob. Yeah, he's gonna be the new half stat I'm gonna crime. That's so funny. Yeah, yeah, that's I hope people keep emailing and send us questions and and follow the YouTube page and check out the dot com and this buddy, this is a lot of fun. Man. I appreciate that we're gonna we're gonna get stuck here. I'm appyciate you standing up late everybody. If you're listening, it's Bill Dumont dot com. We also have Bill Dumont pod at gmail dot com for that email that Bill's talking about. We appreciate you going on this ride with us, and continue to check in, tell your friends about it, let us know if you're liking it, let us know if you're hating it. We want to hear from you and we're just having a time doing it and hope that everybody's taking away something from it. So again, we appreciate everybody. Love it. Yep. Until next time, keep being you and keep being great. You can get what you're feeling. Bride Shaa. Take a chance on the right what Molly, y'all love man, you slid shot, make the best side yourself brandish y'all shot Jeff counting media b