Extra! Extra! Law Enforcement Searches a Shelby, North Carolina Home for Evidence Pertaining to the Disappearance of Asha Degree

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[00:02:09] [SPEAKER_01]: This episode involves discussion over the disappearance and possible murder of a child.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_02]: So today on this Extra Extra segment, we have news to share about a case that a lot

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_02]: of you who follow True Crime may have heard of before.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_02]: This is the disappearance of Aisha Degree.

[00:02:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Aisha was a little girl who went missing in North Carolina years and years ago.

[00:02:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And recently online, Kevin and I were seeing a lot of chatter coming out of

[00:02:41] [SPEAKER_02]: North Carolina about the search of a specific property that might be connected to this case.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_02]: So we reached out to law enforcement to find out what was going on and if we could dispel

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_02]: any misinformation or rumors or confirm that this was, in fact, linked to Aisha's

[00:02:59] [SPEAKER_02]: disappearance. And this is the statement that we just got today that we're going

[00:03:04] [SPEAKER_02]: to read out for you.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And then we're going to talk about this case more shortly.

[00:03:10] [SPEAKER_02]: So, quote, The search warrants executed this week by the Cleveland County Sheriff's

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Office, the FBI and the SBI are related to the disappearance of Aisha Degree.

[00:03:21] [SPEAKER_02]: The search warrants were obtained based on physical evidence directly connected to

[00:03:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Aisha's disappearance.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Multiple items of interest were taken from the sites and will be analyzed.

[00:03:31] [SPEAKER_02]: It is important to dispel rumors circulating about the investigation.

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_02]: No human remains were recovered.

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Again, no human remains were found.

[00:03:40] [SPEAKER_02]: This investigation is ongoing and official information will be released by the

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Cleveland County Sheriff's Office when appropriate.

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Please do not spread rumors on social media out of respect for Aisha's family

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_02]: and for this investigation.

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, Sheriff Alan Norman.

[00:03:56] [SPEAKER_02]: End quote. So let's talk about this.

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_02]: My name is Anya Cain.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm a journalist.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm Kevin Greenling.

[00:04:05] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm an attorney.

[00:04:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And this is the murder sheet.

[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_01]: We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews and deep

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_01]: dives into murder cases.

[00:04:14] [SPEAKER_01]: We're the murder sheet.

[00:04:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And this is Extra Extra.

[00:04:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Law enforcement searches a Shelby, North Carolina home for evidence

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_02]: pertaining to the disappearance of Aisha Degree.

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_02]: So as we mentioned, Kevin and I reached out to local law enforcement.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I believe a lot of media had at that point.

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think what we were all wondering is, is this in fact linked to Aisha Degree's

[00:05:22] [SPEAKER_02]: disappearance or is this perhaps just a rumor that got started somewhere on

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_02]: social media that we can all swat down together?

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And what we learned is that no, it is indeed related to Aisha's case.

[00:05:35] [SPEAKER_02]: But unfortunately, there are some of those rumors that are circulating.

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's really important that we note again what the sheriff noted.

[00:05:44] [SPEAKER_02]: No human remains have been found.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Aisha has not been found.

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_02]: If you see people spreading those rumors, get them to stop, yell at them.

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Or you can nicely ask them to stop it, but it's not okay.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_02]: This is a little girl that's been missing for years.

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure this was incredibly shattering to her family.

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not okay to kind of put out false hope or false rumors around this.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just not right.

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_01]: What kind of things do you think they could be searching

[00:06:10] [SPEAKER_01]: for after all this time?

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think it's really interesting that the sheriff notes that this

[00:06:17] [SPEAKER_02]: search was based on physical evidence directly pertaining to Aisha's disappearance.

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know what that means, and I'm not going to speculate too loosely about that.

[00:06:29] [SPEAKER_02]: But it sounds like they have something that they're following up very specifically,

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_02]: something that led them to this spot to search and something that.

[00:06:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I guess was somehow connected to physical evidence that they found.

[00:06:44] [SPEAKER_01]: Correct me if I'm wrong.

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_01]: Were there reports in May that the investigation into this case was heating up?

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_02]: That is correct.

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I noted that when we looked back at local press reports,

[00:06:57] [SPEAKER_02]: there was a lot of chatter in May with local headlines reading that,

[00:07:01] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, significant development, significant progress.

[00:07:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And I wondered at the time, could that be connected to?

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I wondered at the time about that, and now I'm wondering

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_02]: if that could be connected to what we're seeing today as something paid off in a big

[00:07:16] [SPEAKER_02]: way to allow them to move to the next level.

[00:07:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Or is this completely unrelated?

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[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_02]: So before we get talking about the actual case of the disappearance of Asha

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Degree, let's actually just talk a little bit about where is being searched.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_02]: So this is in Shelby, North Carolina.

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_02]: That's in Cleveland County, North Carolina, and it's a house along

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Cherryville Road.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_02]: The address has been published by other media outlets, but I personally don't

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_02]: feel super comfortable doing that.

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm not going to, but I did look up all the Zillow information and this

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_02]: on a 4.86 acre lot, and it seems to be across from a farm.

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_02]: So when I'm looking at this, I'm not boots on the ground.

[00:09:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not from this area and I'm not familiar with this area, but when I'm

[00:09:39] [SPEAKER_02]: seeing looks pretty rural and that's just to note kind of the background

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_02]: here.

[00:09:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And so in terms of, you know, this is actually in case, in case you're

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_02]: one of the people from North Carolina that we reached out to who are

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_02]: listeners or who we know.

[00:09:57] [SPEAKER_02]: This is why we were asking if you happen to know anyone in the Shelby area,

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_02]: because we wanted to see if we could find anyone who could kind of give us

[00:10:04] [SPEAKER_02]: a sense of what this area is like and if they maybe had any sort of insight

[00:10:09] [SPEAKER_02]: on what was going on.

[00:10:12] [SPEAKER_02]: But the disappearance of Asha Degree dates all the way back to 2000.

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_02]: So we're talking about a case that is 24 years old.

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I think this is one of those true crime cases that has certainly gotten a

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_02]: decent amount of attention from the true crime space.

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe, maybe not like of the utmost degree.

[00:10:34] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not like a necessarily like a Ted Bundy Israel Keys type case.

[00:10:38] [SPEAKER_02]: But I think this has been one that people have always been somewhat

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_02]: fascinated by because the circumstances of Asha's disappearance are so

[00:10:46] [SPEAKER_02]: incredibly bizarre that it kind of has engendered a lot of speculation.

[00:10:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Some of it, I think, has been responsible, helpful and just sort of based on the

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_02]: facts. And then others, I think as always in a true crime space, there

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_02]: can be some kind of tendency to want to blame people.

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's unhelpful.

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_02]: But let's talk about Asha.

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Asha was nine years old in 2000.

[00:11:12] [SPEAKER_02]: She lived in Shelby, North Carolina with her brother and her parents.

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And by all accounts, she was quite a shy child.

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_02]: She was not super outgoing and she was very involved in different activities,

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_02]: basketball.

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_02]: What's come out in years since is that the degrees have indicated that they

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_02]: tried to shelter their children.

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And so she was in fourth grade at that time.

[00:11:41] [SPEAKER_02]: She was going to Falston Elementary School and she was the sort of star

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_02]: of her school's little basketball team.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And unfortunately, on like February 13th, my understanding is that her

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_02]: basketball team had a game and they lost.

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_02]: It was like the first loss of the season.

[00:12:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And she during that game had actually fouled out of the game.

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_02]: She was pretty upset about that, is my understanding.

[00:12:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Now I say that because, you know, that's been noted extensively, but her

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_02]: parents also say that she had gotten over it by, you know, as kids do.

[00:12:17] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's upsetting for a kid to lose a game like that.

[00:12:21] [SPEAKER_02]: But kids are resilient and they can bounce back.

[00:12:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's one of those things where it's like, could that be relevant?

[00:12:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Could that be totally a red herring and completely irrelevant?

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_02]: It's hard to say.

[00:12:34] [SPEAKER_02]: But so the children, Asha and her brother O'Brien, they go to bed and

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_02]: then Asha disappears.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And what comes out later is that the following morning, very early in the

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_02]: morning when it was actually storming out, a truck driver saw a little girl

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_02]: matching Asha's description walking along North Carolina Highway 18.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And obviously I imagine that's a pretty bizarre sight.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, she was very young.

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_02]: There would be no conceivable reason for a little girl to be out there in

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_02]: a storm all alone so early in the morning.

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Is that fair to say, Kevin?

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_01]: That's very fair to say.

[00:13:24] [SPEAKER_02]: But that was the last sighting of Asha.

[00:13:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And there's been sort of disturbing clues that have come up ever since.

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_02]: But when the parents woke up in the morning, they found that while O'Brien

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_02]: was in his bed, their daughter was missing and they went to the police.

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_02]: A search goes out.

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the community mobilizes to try to find this child.

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's that early local news coverage gets both the truck driver

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_02]: and another driver who had seen a girl matching Asha's description to come

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_02]: forward and say, we saw her.

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And one of them indicated that they actually attempted to pull over

[00:14:16] [SPEAKER_02]: and sort of go to her and figure out what was going on.

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And she ran into the trees at that point.

[00:14:22] [SPEAKER_02]: So she apparently did not want to be approached.

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And clues were found I think at a nearby shed.

[00:14:31] [SPEAKER_02]: There was some indication that, you know, there were candy wrappers and perhaps,

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, like pencil that belonged to Asha were found in this little shed.

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I believe quite a while later, her backpack was discovered,

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_02]: buried at a construction site in, you know, I think miles and miles away

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_02]: from Shelby. I think it was like about 25, 25

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_02]: miles away.

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_02]: So I know for a long time, people have kind of picked apart this case and

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_02]: they've looked at all the angles.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_02]: They've looked at could this like why I mean, the central question is why

[00:15:14] [SPEAKER_02]: would a nine-year-old girl go out like that in a storm, especially given

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_02]: what was put out there about Asha's personality where she could be a bit

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_02]: shy, a bit reserved, did not have a history seemingly of doing stuff like

[00:15:31] [SPEAKER_02]: this. I mean, what are your thoughts on that?

[00:15:34] [SPEAKER_01]: It seems odd.

[00:15:36] [SPEAKER_01]: I've not followed this case as you have, so I don't really feel qualified

[00:15:41] [SPEAKER_01]: to say much more than that.

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_01]: It seems odd. Certainly when I was nine years old, it's difficult for me

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_01]: to imagine a circumstance where I just suddenly leave with my backpack.

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it raises obvious questions.

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_02]: It really does.

[00:15:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And there have been people who've tried to insert themselves into this

[00:16:01] [SPEAKER_02]: case. The one that kind of comes to my mind is I think a few years ago,

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_02]: there was an inmate somewhere, a guy named Marcus Mellon, who was making

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_02]: all sorts of claims.

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_02]: He was a child sex predator and he was talking about he knew where

[00:16:18] [SPEAKER_02]: to find her body and stuff.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And I know that the sheriff then after a few years announced that those

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_02]: claims had gotten nowhere.

[00:16:25] [SPEAKER_02]: So you do have people who try to insert themselves into a notorious case

[00:16:29] [SPEAKER_02]: like this, but oftentimes they're just looking for attention and you might

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_02]: wonder why would people do that?

[00:16:33] [SPEAKER_02]: But it unfortunately happens quite a lot.

[00:16:41] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's where sort of things were before all these recent developments.

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And one thing that's important to note is this is absolutely sort of an

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_02]: inter-agency investigation.

[00:16:56] [SPEAKER_02]: You have the Cleveland County Sheriff's Office.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_02]: We read a statement from their sheriff just today, but also the

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Federal Bureau of Investigation has been very much involved in this.

[00:17:10] [SPEAKER_02]: My understanding is that they came into it in a big way a few years ago,

[00:17:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I think around like 2015.

[00:17:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And if you go to their website and I'll include some of these links,

[00:17:19] [SPEAKER_02]: there's a lot on Aisha's story.

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_02]: They've been trying to spread the word and also provide those

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_02]: investigative resources.

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's been something that's been going on for a number of years.

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And in addition to that, North Carolina's state authorities are

[00:17:40] [SPEAKER_02]: also very much all over this.

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Let me, I don't want to get their name wrong.

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm gonna, every state has kind of a different type of, you know,

[00:17:48] [SPEAKER_02]: version of this, whether it's state police or a Bureau of Investigation,

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_02]: but this is the NCSBI or the North Carolina State Bureau of Investigation.

[00:17:56] [SPEAKER_02]: They're one of the other agencies that are all over this case.

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So I guess, Kevin, when we're seeing something like this, which is such a,

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, I don't want to say cold case because that would imply

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_02]: that no work has been done.

[00:18:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I suppose it's an older case.

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, is that fair to say 24 years on it's an older case?

[00:18:17] [SPEAKER_02]: So when we're seeing something like that, but then not only a highly public

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_02]: search being executed at a home, but also a agency willing to say,

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_02]: yes, this is about Asia and not sort of deflecting from that.

[00:18:38] [SPEAKER_02]: What do you interpret from those, from that fact pattern, I suppose?

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be very interesting to see what happens next.

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously there's been a lot of rampant speculation out there.

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I feel part of this was just trying to tamp that down.

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_01]: There'd been speculation on social media that Asia's body had

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_01]: actually been discovered and that was all over Reddit.

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_01]: And I believe the family came forward with a Facebook post saying,

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_01]: please don't speculate like that, just wait.

[00:19:16] [SPEAKER_01]: And that didn't seem to stop the speculation.

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_01]: So I would guess that a big part of this was to try to stop what must

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_01]: be very painful speculation for the family.

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_01]: I'm curious, I mentioned specially trained canine dogs

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_01]: are involved in the search.

[00:19:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Does that tell you anything?

[00:19:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that could be a number of things because you have

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_02]: dogs that have specialties.

[00:19:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Depending on how they've been trained, you have cadaver dogs,

[00:19:41] [SPEAKER_02]: which would indicate a search for a body, human remains.

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And my understanding is that they can also in some instances, although

[00:19:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if this would be possible so many years past, but they can

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_02]: kind of indicate if a body has been in the location, even if that body

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_02]: is no longer in said location.

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_02]: So I think it could be either of those things.

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So that doesn't necessarily mean that they expect to find a body on the

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_02]: premises, but they could at least be looking at the possibility that one

[00:20:12] [SPEAKER_02]: was there and then later moved at a different time.

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Another clue that came up over the years that I think is interesting,

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_02]: and I would be curious if this does end up coming back to whoever

[00:20:26] [SPEAKER_02]: is linked to this Cherryville Road location.

[00:20:29] [SPEAKER_02]: But in 2015, the FBI was pushing this lead very hard.

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_02]: The idea that Asia might have gotten into a Lincoln Continental

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Mark IV or a Ford Thunderbird.

[00:20:41] [SPEAKER_02]: This vehicle was said to have rust around the wheel wells and to be very

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_02]: dark green, and that it was believed to be a 1970s model car.

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_01]: So haven't we seen footage of a very similar looking car being

[00:20:57] [SPEAKER_01]: removed from this particular residence?

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_01]: That is correct.

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So that raises all sorts of questions because again, with Asia's

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_02]: personality being shy, I know kids can be somewhat unpredictable.

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to put too much weight on that.

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, kids contain multitudes.

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_02]: They can be shy most of the time, but then they can surprise you.

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And unfortunately, that can also apply in sort of tragic situations.

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So you might think, well, would a shy kid go off with someone

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_02]: they didn't know?

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Could this have been a grooming situation?

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we don't know.

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Anything would be speculation, but it definitely raises questions.

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_02]: But yes, you're exactly right.

[00:21:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I bring that up because a similar car has appeared in news

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_02]: footage being carted off.

[00:21:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And so that has been something that I'm paying attention to.

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Because if they could get a car associated with this, then that would be,

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, very much something where they could possibly get more evidence from that.

[00:22:17] [SPEAKER_02]: So not too long ago in addition to that, Asia's mother actually released

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_02]: a statement indicating that she believes her daughter is still alive and out there somewhere.

[00:22:28] [SPEAKER_02]: So this family is maintaining that hope.

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_02]: It's very, it's obviously very sad.

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And in addition to that, there is a $45,000 reward for information in this case.

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_01]: And it's worth noting that there is no proof that Asia is deceased.

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_01]: So her mother could very well be correct that Asia is still alive.

[00:22:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I hate to be a pessimist in a case like this because it's a little girl's life.

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And even though a story that involves someone being separated from their family

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_02]: for so long is still horrifying and raises all sorts of very disturbing questions,

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_02]: it's still the idea that they could see each other one again, each other again

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_02]: and that one day is really wonderful.

[00:23:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't want to, you know, sort of rain on that.

[00:23:26] [SPEAKER_02]: But at the same time, whenever you have a really long term missing person's case,

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I think the odds of that are exceptionally unlikely.

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_02]: But then again, there can always be those sort of cases that happen where it sort

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_02]: of confounds everybody's expectations.

[00:23:40] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's certainly not impossible.

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I just, I personally tend to assume that if someone is missing this long, they're dead.

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, yeah, it's just sad.

[00:23:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I know a lot of people online have sort of accused the family over the years

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_02]: of having something to do with the disappearance.

[00:24:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I tend to think that that impulse comes out of the frustration

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_02]: of not knowing what's happened and when it's like, well, we can't find

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_02]: another person to blame for this, so let's look at the people closest

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_02]: to the victim and I'm of the mind that the family in any case should

[00:24:20] [SPEAKER_02]: always be scrutinized, especially in the death or disappearance of a child,

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_02]: because that is oftentimes the perpetrator, people who are close to the victim.

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_02]: That being said, I would hope that if something were to come out of this

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_02]: latest avenue of investigation that would indicate that the degrees had

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_02]: absolutely nothing to do with what happened, then I would hope that a lot

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_02]: of people would perhaps keep that in mind if they were part of the kind

[00:24:45] [SPEAKER_02]: of pile on to kind of think that like, you don't know what you don't know.

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't know what the FBI knows and perhaps sometimes there can be things

[00:24:53] [SPEAKER_02]: going under the surface and it's not right to just because the public

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_02]: is not necessarily aware of something, it's not right to necessarily

[00:25:01] [SPEAKER_02]: jump to conclusions about a victim's family.

[00:25:04] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think I tend to be, I'm realistic.

[00:25:08] [SPEAKER_01]: I know that many times people are victims of acts of violence

[00:25:14] [SPEAKER_01]: from family members, but in these sorts of cases, I'm very wary of pointing

[00:25:22] [SPEAKER_01]: a finger at the family unless you're like absolutely positively sure.

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_01]: Because if you do that and you're wrong, then you are adding pain to

[00:25:34] [SPEAKER_01]: someone's life that is undeserved because they are mourning the death

[00:25:38] [SPEAKER_01]: of someone they care about.

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_01]: And then on top of this, they're not being publicly accused of murder.

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:25:44] [SPEAKER_02]: If it's a situation to use another North Carolina case, if it's a situation

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_02]: like Dr.

[00:25:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Jeffrey McDonald, I'm pretty confident we can point the finger at him for

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_02]: the murder of his family.

[00:25:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And there's a lot of evidence that's been released out there and there

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_02]: have been, you know, there was the military tribunal, there

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_02]: was the civilian trial.

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel comfortable with that.

[00:26:03] [SPEAKER_02]: But when there's a case like this where there's just a lot that's not

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_02]: known and there's a lot of sort of bizarre details of it, I think it's

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_02]: always possible to hold back on judgment and to, you know, perhaps have

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_02]: those conversations in a way where you're kind of acknowledging that,

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_02]: hey, none of us know what's going on.

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_02]: And all of this is just speculation.

[00:26:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of people do do that.

[00:26:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And I respect that certainly, but I just, I think sometimes in the

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_02]: absence of answers, it's possible to kind of have people go a little

[00:26:34] [SPEAKER_02]: bit too far.

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_02]: But anyways, we will be certainly monitoring this for more updates and

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_02]: we'll let you know if anything else develops.

[00:26:43] [SPEAKER_02]: We certainly hope that this could mean some important clues are found

[00:26:49] [SPEAKER_02]: that can inform us and the public and the police and Asia's family

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_02]: about where she is and bring her home in some capacity in the future.

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_01]: What are things you would expect to happen next?

[00:27:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think what happens next will largely depend on whether or not any

[00:27:10] [SPEAKER_02]: evidence is actually found that is relevant.

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_02]: It sounds like they've collected some things for analysis.

[00:27:16] [SPEAKER_02]: So they've obviously found stuff that they feel is worth looking at.

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_02]: They've not found a body.

[00:27:21] [SPEAKER_02]: A body would indicate, you know, okay, this is kind of very

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_02]: close to being closed, but in the absence of one, you have to look

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_02]: at things that might indicate some sort of, you know, evidence pointing

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_02]: to somebody's guilt and, you know, the indication that she was once

[00:27:38] [SPEAKER_02]: there, the indication that somebody was connected to this.

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_02]: So I think what happens next, if basically nothing comes of this,

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_02]: perhaps we can look at it and say, well, perhaps they had to cross

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_02]: this off the list, but it's not the thing that will break this

[00:27:52] [SPEAKER_02]: case wide open.

[00:27:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And if charges come out of this, then we can imagine that something

[00:27:58] [SPEAKER_02]: definitely was found.

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And I guess the alternate thing would be that, you know, they kind of,

[00:28:06] [SPEAKER_02]: they don't tell anyone what happened.

[00:28:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think lack of further activity would indicate that it didn't go

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_02]: anywhere, but further activity would mean that we're getting closer

[00:28:17] [SPEAKER_02]: and closer to a conclusion.

[00:28:20] [SPEAKER_01]: And I would mention a possible parallel to the Richard Allen case.

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, the murders in Delphi, there was a lot of complaints and

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_01]: criticism that the law enforcement wasn't being as forthcoming as

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_01]: some would like about some of the details.

[00:28:41] [SPEAKER_01]: And then it turns out when the details that was hidden was a

[00:28:45] [SPEAKER_01]: detail about a bullet found at the crime scene, and they kept that quiet

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_01]: in order so that the killer would not be aware that they had something

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_01]: which could link his gun to the crime scene.

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_01]: And so I wonder if in this case there's similar reasons to be so

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_01]: quiet about certain details about this case, because I have no idea

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_01]: what physical evidence they were looking for there, but it's possible

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_01]: they were looking for something that if it had come out earlier in

[00:29:17] [SPEAKER_01]: social media, a potential defendant could have disposed of it instead

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_01]: of keeping it all these decades.

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I concur.

[00:29:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's something that I've learned certainly through Delphi

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_02]: as well, that it's one thing to say, yeah, they have to have

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_02]: hold back information, but I mean, they have to have hold back

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_02]: information or the case doesn't get solved in many instances.

[00:29:38] [SPEAKER_02]: If it's not a conventional, the perp left DNA all over the

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_02]: crime scene, and did it on camera, then you have to have information

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_02]: that you could compare because you do have a lot of people in high

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_02]: profile cases who try to elbow their way in and get attention

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_02]: and say the wrong thing.

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Or you have people who frankly want to accuse someone they don't

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_02]: like or want to accuse someone just because they're convinced

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_02]: that person did it without evidence.

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And you have to be able to cross off names off a list

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_02]: because they don't match.

[00:30:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And especially in a no body case like this is right now, I mean,

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_02]: again, Aisha could be alive, but if she's not, then they don't

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_02]: know where she is.

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And the more information you keep under wraps, the better in

[00:30:25] [SPEAKER_02]: the long-term if you start getting things that you can compare

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_02]: against.

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's a very apt point, Kevin.

[00:30:34] [SPEAKER_02]: Anyways, well, we will be monitoring this and if you're

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_02]: from the Shelby, North Carolina area and you happen to know

[00:30:40] [SPEAKER_02]: something about what's going on, please feel free to reach out

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_02]: to us and we can talk.

[00:30:45] [SPEAKER_02]: We could talk on background.

[00:30:46] [SPEAKER_02]: We take source confidentiality very seriously and would be

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_02]: happy to keep you anonymous and whatnot.

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_02]: We protect our sources.

[00:30:55] [SPEAKER_02]: But other than that, we'll just kind of be watching and

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_02]: waiting for more information from law enforcement along with

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_02]: all the other media outlets.

[00:31:02] [SPEAKER_01]: And of course, all of our hopes and thoughts are with the

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_01]: degree family.

[00:31:10] [SPEAKER_01]: This sort of thing is unimaginably traumatic for them,

[00:31:17] [SPEAKER_01]: for any crime victim who has to go through something like

[00:31:21] [SPEAKER_01]: this in some way.

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously you want answers, but sometimes the process of

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_01]: getting answers can be itself traumatic and bring a lot of

[00:31:31] [SPEAKER_01]: things to the surface.

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_01]: So they must be having a lot of pain right now and our

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_01]: thoughts and best wishes are with them.

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks so much for listening to The Murder Sheet.

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_01]: If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover,

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_01]: please email us at murdersheet at gmail.com.

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_01]: If you have actionable information about an unsolved

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[00:32:08] [SPEAKER_02]: If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_02]: at www.patreon.com slash murder sheet.

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[00:32:31] [SPEAKER_01]: Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the

[00:32:35] [SPEAKER_01]: music for The Murder Sheet and who you can find on the

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_01]: web at kevintg.com.

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[00:33:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks again for listening.

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