Keeping Kids Safe with Officer of the Year Detective Tracy Jones

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_03] I'm Anya, and today we're going to be talking with a police detective who's dedicated her career to protecting children.

[00:00:06] [SPEAKER_00] Content warning. This episode contains discussion of the sexual abuse of children.

[00:00:12] [SPEAKER_03] We live in a fallen world, a world where, unfortunately, many dark and disturbing things can and do happen to children, namely the sexual abuse of children. This devastating issue can be closer to home than we think. You see cases where adult sexual predators prey on children. These can be strangers, trusted figures like teachers, coaches, religious leaders, family friends, or even a victim's own family members. Sometimes there are even cases of children preying on one another.

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_00] According to the Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network, or RAINN, when we are talking about cases with juvenile victims that are reported to law enforcement, 93% of the child sexual abuse victims know the perpetrator. 59% of those perpetrators were acquaintances. 34% were family members. Just 7% were strangers.

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_03] When it comes to sexual abuse cases involving juveniles, law enforcement investigators have a very important task to accomplish. They must seek to uncover the truth and hold the guilty responsible, while also trying to avoid re-traumatizing a child as much as possible.

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_00] One of those investigators is Fisher's Police Department Detective Tracy Jones. She was recently named Fisher's 2025 Officer of the Year. Detective Jones takes on lots of cases involving sexual crimes with child victims. Fishers is a city directly to the north of Indianapolis in Indiana's Hamilton County.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_03] So we reached out to see if Detective Jones would be willing to talk to us. She was. She's going to tell us about her career in law enforcement, her work protecting children and bringing offenders to justice. She'll also talk about her frequent work with the Cherish Center, a nationally accredited child advocacy center that provides Hamilton County and Tipton County with abuse intervention and prevention services. In 2025, Detective Jones worked 49 cases with the Cherish Center,

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_03] the most in the county, according to the Fisher's Police Department. In this episode, Detective Jones will also provide some helpful, actionable tips on how you can help keep the kids in your life safe. My name is Anya Kane. I'm a journalist.

[00:02:25] [SPEAKER_00] And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney. And this is The Murder Sheet. We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases. We're The Murder Sheet.

[00:02:37] [SPEAKER_03] And this is Keeping Kids Safe with Officer of the Year, Detective Tracy Jones.

[00:03:28] [SPEAKER_03] Can you just tell us what first drew you to work in law enforcement?

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_02] Sure. So when I was a kid, I started working for a nonprofit, and I worked for that same company from the time I was 15 until I was 26 when I got hired on here. And so I was really interested in doing something that still continued to serve other people in the community, but kind of something that was a different kind of change of pace and something different on a daily setting. Absolutely. That's really cool.

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_03] And can you take us through that trajectory of your career in law enforcement and kind of like how that has developed over time?

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. So when I first got hired on, I started out as a patrol officer, and I worked patrol on day shift, and then I went to night shift and kind of varied back and forth with that. And then I was ready to try to kind of expand my knowledge of the agency, and I actually went and worked in the schools for Hamilton Southeastern as a school resource officer. Along with that, I also was a DARE instructor for fifth grade.

[00:04:29] [SPEAKER_00] You've done a lot of work with kids. What drove you to that area in particular?

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, when I was on patrol, it just kind of seemed like I always kind of gravitated, and kids always gravitated to me as far as feeling comfortable talking with me. And I really wanted to be more of that role model so that way children in the community don't see law enforcement as something scary, but they can form a relationship and see that we're people just like they are, and they feel comfortable coming to talk to us about their problems.

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_00] How do you make kids comfortable enough to talk with you and establish that rapport with them?

[00:05:07] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, so when I was in the schools, I would make effort to go out in hallways during passing periods and sit down at lunches and really get to know them and what they like to do. You know, learning the different things that they like, that they're watching, that they're playing with so that you can kind of get to know them and have the conversation pieces with them. And then it's really just, you know, you're there. They see you daily as a school resource officer, so they're going to feel comfortable communicating with you.

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_03] In terms of your work with cases involving kids, we saw in the release you did 49 Cherish Center cases and were like assigned like 65% of cases involving kids at one point. Like that's a very high volume of what you do. Can you tell us, though, what is the Cherish Center and what kind of work do they do for the community?

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_02] So the Cherish Center is our child advocacy center here in Hamilton County. So all the law enforcement agencies here locally, we use them when we're going to deal with any kind of interview for children. So what they do is they are a nonprofit and they have forensic interviewers. So if we get a case, we would go to the Cherish Center and that child would then sit in a room with that interviewer.

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_02] And it's one-on-one with them and they're asking non-leaning questions just to try to figure out, you know, what happened? Was there a crime that occurred? And to get those details from them. We work with a multidisciplinary team. So when that child's in with the interviewer, then there's a team watching that. So it's my detective. It's going to be a prosecutor and Department of Child Services watching. That forensic interviewer will take a break.

[00:06:51] [SPEAKER_02] We'll all get together and determine, do we need further questions answered in order to be able to possibly take it through the prosecutor's office?

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_03] That's incredible, that multidisciplinary collaboration. Like, and it's all kind of funneled through one space. I mean, I think that's a really cool resource.

[00:07:10] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, it's actually great. And, you know, myself and Department of Child Services, we each have our own separate investigations going on at the same time. But we really collaborate together to get to that end goal of, you know, what is best for that child.

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_03] The other number that stuck out to us that we saw in this release was that 18 months prior to October, you investigated 63 child sex abuse cases. Can you tell us about that? Like, is that a normal number? That sounds, I'm sure, to some people like a very scary high number.

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, I think, you know, a lot of it that we see does come in from our partnership with the HSE school system. So HSE obviously is a mandated reporter. So a lot of we get a come through there. We'll also get cases that come through our patrol division. I do think it's high, but I think that parents also are doing a great job at notifying and being more vigilant of their children and maybe the devices that they're on.

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_03] Wow. So we're seeing maybe a shift in the culture where people are catching this stuff more?

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_02] I think so. And I also think that there's been a change of victims wanting to come forward and get the help that they need to kind of process what has happened to them.

[00:08:22] [SPEAKER_03] That's great. So it's not necessarily the numbers higher. It's more of the reporting's higher. I think so, yes.

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, you talk about parents being more aware of this. What kind of things should parents be looking for?

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_02] I think parents, first of all, monitoring social media is going to be a huge thing and devices. You know, there's settings that parents can put on their child's cell phone so that, you know, they aren't permitted to get on certain apps after an extended period of time or maybe they've only used it for an hour a day. Not keeping phones in the juvenile's bedroom is going to be really important. So having a charging area downstairs.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_02] Just really also knowing who your child's friends are and just kind of what they're doing online.

[00:09:10] [SPEAKER_00] I'm curious about what this sort of work is like. Obviously, we don't want any identifying details. But in very general terms, can you walk us through the process of getting a report and investigating it and what all the steps are that you take?

[00:09:26] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, so my cases come assigned to me from my lieutenant. So sometimes it might be the road officer takes a report and then I get it. Or it might be maybe even a parent that called in something through Department of Child Services. That all gets sent to our lieutenant who then assigns that out. Once I get any juvenile case, then I work with Department of Child Services to set up that forensic interview with the chair center.

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_02] And then from there, it's really working with the victim, determining do I need preservation letters or search warrants for social media and just kind of the next steps that I need to take through that.

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_03] What's the difference between working with an adult witness or an adult victim in a case versus a child victim in a case as you're preparing that case and getting it towards its resolution?

[00:10:22] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, really with any victim that we have, we really want to try to minimize the amount of time that we're talking to them and that they're sharing their personal trauma with someone. So we really want to try to make it so, you know, sometimes we'll have the school dean call in a sexual assault. We don't want them to interview, share their trauma, and then we have to go to the chair to interview and then they have to share it again.

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_02] So we really try to minimize the amount of time that people are spending talking to them just to keep that a little bit more personal for them. That's a lot of information, you know, personal information to share, and we really just want to try to minimize that on the victim. And adults, same thing, but we can speak a little bit more freely with an adult than a juvenile.

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, I'm curious too, you know, as an outsider, we used to arrest being made, people going to trial. Do a lot of the cases you work go to trial or are they resolved prior to trial?

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_02] A lot of us. So I've been doing sex crimes since 2019 and the majority of my cases do not end up going to trial. They'll work through the court system and take a plea offering.

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, that's just all cases, right? You know, trials are pretty rare. In terms of, you know, your own personal experience without getting into any sort of identifying details or whatnot, what are some memorable cases that you've worked or, I guess, stand out memories when it comes to some of these, you know, pretty heinous crimes that you've worked to solve?

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_02] I've had many, many cases. I think they kind of all stand out a little bit differently to me. You know, I've had some juvenile arrests for rape, and, you know, they stand out to me because we really have worked to get that victim some justice. And it's really seeing and watching and even having parents reach back out to you of how that child is doing after the fact. So how they've been doing after they've been receiving therapy and things like that.

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_02] So really just the rewarding part, I think, for me is watching them progress through their healing journey. Absolutely.

[00:12:38] [SPEAKER_00] So you kind of follow them even after the case is resolved? You keep in touch with them?

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, a lot of them I do keep in touch with. I'll have parents that reach back out to me just to give me an update on how they're doing.

[00:12:49] [SPEAKER_03] That's nice.

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_02] How do you deal with some of this?

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_03] I mean, I think when people, you know, when we're talking with people just in true crime, crimes against children, it's a horrible, horrible thing. It's hard for outsiders to even hear about. How do you work in that without getting burned out or kind of, I guess, depressed?

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, that's a great question. I, you know, in law enforcement in general, I think it's really important that you have your own hobbies and your own interests. For me, it's actually very easy to get caught up in my cases, and I could sit here and I could work till 9 o'clock every day, right? And I have a purpose and a reason of why I could do that. But for me, it's really important to take that step back and know that I can't help the victims with their cases unless I'm taking care of myself.

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_02] So that might be, you know, anything from, you know, working out or the personal hobbies that I have, just really taking care of me and my family.

[00:13:45] [SPEAKER_03] In terms of, you mentioned working with prosecutors through the Cherish Center and kind of collaborating. In this digital age, I also imagine that sometimes these crimes are actually crossing state lines or different jurisdictions. What is it like, I guess, working with different officers in other jurisdictions and how do you kind of collaborate, you know, between different agencies to kind of get these resolved?

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, we've had many cases where, you know, I'd be an agency in Florida, for example. And so then it's working. Their court system is a little bit different than ours. So it might be me working on typing up the probable cause affidavit here, sending it to them. They might then collect, like, DNA evidence. And then it's just them sending that back. So we really work well together with other agencies.

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_02] It's just a little extra time added to the case investigation to get to that point.

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_00] Are all of your cases child sex cases? Have you worked in other areas as well?

[00:14:44] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, so we're all technically general detectives. We don't necessarily have a title. My preference and my passion is working the juvenile and the sex crimes cases. But if I'm on call, anything that comes out, then I'll get assigned. So if I'm on call and there's a robbery, then that will become my case. But primarily, my case is that my lieutenant assigns is just the juvenile sex crimes or sex crimes.

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_03] I'd be curious. Can you tell us a little bit about what the, I mean, I'm sure this general law enforcement culture, but within Fishers PD specifically, what is the culture within this organization? I mean, Fishers is kind of a, it's a growing city in Indiana. What's it like to work here?

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_02] I think the Fishers Police Department is a great agency to work for. They really provide us the opportunity to, to train. So I have the opportunity to travel across the U.S. to attend training specifically for sex crimes and crimes against children. And then, you know, technically, like I said, we are general detectives, but they allow us the opportunity. If we have a passion about a specific crime area, then we can really focus on that.

[00:15:54] [SPEAKER_00] What are some of the toughest parts of this job?

[00:15:57] [SPEAKER_02] I think one of the hardest parts for me is if I'm working a case and we're not able to take it to the prosecutor's office or if we're not able to, you know, get specifically what that family thinks justice looks like for them. I think that's hard because we are, you know, we're still working diligently to help that family and to provide them with services. And so, like, like I mentioned, the Tarrist Center, they do a great job, too. We work together to help that family.

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_02] They might offer them wraparound services or specific counseling, trauma-informed counseling. So what, what it might look like for one family, it might not be what they were specifically, you know, wanting to happen, but knowing that we're still able to start that, their healing process.

[00:16:47] [SPEAKER_03] So there can be cases where there's just perhaps not enough evidence for a prosecutor to move forward with charges. Correct.

[00:16:54] [SPEAKER_00] What, what exactly do you need to reach that level? Because I imagine in some cases it may be hard to have a witness.

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, and at least a lot of times it is hard to have a witness. You know, we really need, obviously each crime has the different elements of it. And sometimes we're not able to have the victim be able to communicate exactly what happened so that we're not actually able to reach that, that a crime occurred. However, they still, you know, did feel victimized in that, and they're still processing what happened to them. And so they're all just so different on if we are able to reach that point or not.

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_03] Makes sense. In terms of, yes, the toughest parts, what are the most rewarding parts of the job?

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, I think there's many rewarding parts of this job. I still have, when I was a school resource officer, I still have a girl that is now an adult, and she reaches out to me every single day still. So she checks in with me, she lets me know her day, she's doing great. But that was just a connection that we had and that we were still able to have. And so really it's just about, you know, the relationships that you have

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_02] and really helping people kind of process what's happened to them and get them the resources.

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_00] There must be so many people whose lives you have improved or other people who may have been victims of people who now will never be victims of people because of work you've done. I mean, how does that make you feel?

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_02] I think it's a really rewarding position to be in, and I'm really grateful that I've had the opportunity to be able to get to the point where I'm at today working with the juveniles. What does receiving the Officer of the Year Award mean to you? I think that I was very honored to get that. I definitely was not expecting that. A lot of the work that I do is kind of behind the scenes, you know, working with the Cherish Center. I do a lot of work with Hamilton Southeastern School District

[00:18:55] [SPEAKER_02] since a lot of, you know, my cases involve juveniles. And so I just do a lot of behind-the-scenes work, so it's nice to kind of realize that other people are recognizing it's kind of a different side of law enforcement. It's not necessarily the tough guy, you know, working out on the street. It's just a different version of it. So that was very rewarding. You're not getting into car chases and shootouts with people? No, I'm not. I'm sitting behind a desk and I'm typing quite a bit, and I'm in a lot of meetings.

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_03] So, you know, what would your advice be for a young person who might want to do this kind of work, who might want to ultimately be a detective focusing on sex crimes or juvenile crimes, things like that?

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, I would encourage them to get involved with their local law enforcement agencies. A lot of agencies have a cadet program or, you know, I think they still call it the Explorer Program, where juveniles that are interested in becoming law enforcement can come check it out. And we've got one here at Fishers. And it really gets the other officers involved in each division coming in and working with those juveniles. So they kind of get a little glimpse of what it might look like.

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_03] Absolutely. I want to pull it back and talk about, obviously, you know, sex crimes against children, very serious thing. I think it's kind of something that scares a lot of people in society, understandably, because it's so awful. But I guess what are some pervasive myths about sexual abuse against children that are pervasive in society or things that people are not super aware of?

[00:20:25] [SPEAKER_02] From my experience here and from doing this for as long as I have, you know, a lot of times these, it's not the person, you know, that you don't know. A lot of these crimes are going to be a dating relationship or, you know, unfortunately we have siblings and grandparents and step parents. So it's, you know, typically it's going to be someone that they know and that they trust, which is what I think it makes it really hard for that victim to come forward because, you know, they do care about that person and it's really challenging for them.

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_03] So the kind of paradigm of the stranger with candy in the van is, you know, it's not like those predators don't exist. It's just that they may not be as prevalent. How do parents, I guess, grapple with that and try to make choices about who's around their kids? What are some, I mean, what are red flags people can look out for in order to kind of ensure that their kids are not interacting with someone who might be kind of inserting themselves into their social circle?

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, I think that's a great question. I think a lot of it starts with parents informing our children on, you know, what does a relationship look like? It's a really healthy dating relationship. And then what can they do if they're in a situation that they don't want to be in? Those would kind of be my first things to parents to have that conversation because I think, you know, a lot of times we get in those situations where we don't know what to do because it hasn't happened before.

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_02] And then, you know, that fight, flight, freeze, spawn comes into place and, you know, we might not have thought, processed through what to do. So I always encourage parents to have that conversation of, here's what a healthy relationship looks like, here's what consent looks like in a dating relationship, which I think is important for parents to have that conversation.

[00:22:10] [SPEAKER_03] One thing we've often heard is that parents should also focus on making sure they have a very open relationship with their kids where their kids can feel like I can go to them and that's a safe thing to do. Is that something that you've seen make a positive difference in these cases?

[00:22:23] [SPEAKER_02] Absolutely. Yeah, the more open you are with your kids, I think the more they're going to feel comfortable coming to talk to you about things. You know, if you're not making it a giant deal, they're going to feel like they can trust you and that they can come to you. Right.

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_03] For anything. Right. Because it's like if you're blowing up and making it, you know, even though that's understandable, it might scare the kid away a bit. It might. This is a question I've been curious because, you know, we're in new media obviously as a podcast, social media, this traditional media. What information can the media put out there to kind of help protect kids or prevent child sexual abuse? Or are there things that, you know, the media can be running with that would be helpful messages to like let people know about it

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_03] almost to kind of help deal with the problem?

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, I think, you know, putting out, I know HSE, our local district and our agency here does different trainings on, with our ICAC unit on how parents can help prevent this from happening online. And I really just think that it's, you know, the awareness for our kids. Technology is kind of crazy.

[00:23:31] [SPEAKER_02] These kids and parents can set up all kinds of, you know, blocks and VPNs on their phones. And, you know, unfortunately, sometimes our kids are able to get around that. So it's really just making sure that hopefully we're trying to stay on top of technology. We understand it. And really understanding that social media. And, you know, we want to try to prevent them from, you know, having conversations with people they don't know

[00:23:58] [SPEAKER_02] to hopefully prevent them from being in a relationship of, you know, possibly someone grooming them.

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_03] We've talked a bit about maybe areas where society in recent years has improved a little bit in terms of listening to victims or having those relationships with children where they can kind of come forward and talk about things. Or even wonderful resources like the Cherish Center. And all the work you're doing in terms of law enforcement focusing resources on these types of crimes. Are there areas where you would like to see more improvement, I suppose, in terms of these societal factors that could go into taking this type of crime extremely seriously?

[00:24:35] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, I think we recently, I guess I myself, have started going around to roll calls here at our agency just to make sure that we're all on the same page of how we're responding to victims. I think sometimes it can be uncomfortable for a victim to come forward to a male officer and have that conversation with them. So we've really just been discussing, like, how can we talk to a victim if something's being reported?

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_02] And then as an agency, we're working on putting a resource page on our Fisher's Police Department webpage. So that way, if they are a victim of, you know, a sex crime, there's going to be resources available for them. That way, you know, if you're thinking of something late at night, you might have a question, hopefully we would have an answer on our webpage for them.

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_03] And then, you know, I was curious in terms of, I thought it was wonderful you talked about how some of the times the kids who go through this, you know, they and their family stay in touch with you afterwards and it's like they're healing and they're getting better. What would your message be for some people who might be listening who maybe their family went through something like this about, you know, hope for the future and kind of being able to heal from that trauma?

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, I just think it's really important that they find people that they trust that they're willing to talk to. You know, I've had victims that don't feel comfortable right at that time seeking someone out, but just knowing that's an option and that it's going to be hopefully the starting point of their healing journey and just knowing that they are not alone and there's other people out there going through that with them.

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_03] Do you have anything else?

[00:26:13] [SPEAKER_00] Is there anything we didn't ask you that you'd like to share?

[00:26:16] [SPEAKER_02] I can talk a little bit more about the Chair Center. It is a, it's a nonprofit. So they do fundraisers throughout the year and there's also the option for people to donate to them. So they're really great. They'll give little stuffed animals or blankets to them just to kind of make them feel comfortable. And they really do rely on the support of the community.

[00:26:38] [SPEAKER_00] Kelsey Ramsey, the representative for the Fishers Police Department added something important about the Chair Center.

[00:26:46] [SPEAKER_01] The Chair Center, if not every child sex crime case in Hamilton County, they touch it and like they're part of all of them. So it's not like just something Fishers uses. It's every agency in Hamilton County uses them. And again, they're just running off of donations. It's just donations.

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_02] They also have started doing some of the elderly abuse crimes. So really they're working from, you know, we've done young kids, which they do great at, through 18 is kind of the age limit there. And then the adults. And then if we have, you know, if they were a victim, if the child was a victim of like a domestic situation, we might bring them there also for a forensic interview just to kind of bolster the case and see, you know,

[00:27:31] [SPEAKER_02] did they witness anything and what happened?

[00:27:33] [SPEAKER_00] And I'm curious, you say it's not supported by the taxpayer. Is Hamilton County very lucky to have something like this? Or does most counties have some equivalent of this?

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, we are very fortunate for our advocacy centers. This is the Chair Center. The facility is brand new. It's very beautiful. They just moved there recently. And, you know, they do so much training for our community and our law enforcement officers just to make sure that we are doing everything to the highest standard and really taking care of the kids.

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_03] That is wonderful. I mean, yeah, that's like state of the art, I feel. You don't always hear about places having that kind of resource. Right.

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, they're fantastic. You know, we'll, we stay in contact with them, you know, certain cases just to make sure like, did the family actually get the resources they need? Do I need to do anything else for them? So we really have a great relationship with them. That's awesome.

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_00] If people want to donate, is there a webpage or something?

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. So they can go to the Chair Center webpage. And we'll put that in our show notes. Okay. People can kind of click and get that easy.

[00:28:42] [SPEAKER_01] CherishCAC.org. Got it.

[00:28:44] [SPEAKER_02] Okay. That's, that's a wonderful cause. Yeah, they do snacks and everything for the kids. They do feel comfortable and they really want to make it kind of more of a comfortable. It's not like sitting in a room like this. There's like furniture and blankets. They really try to make it comfortable for the child to talk about what happened to them.

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_03] And what you were saying about it being a neutral interview, about being no leading questions, just really getting to the truth. I mean, that is so important for a case.

[00:29:10] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. We just want to make sure that if we did, you know, if it did make it to the prosecution that, you know, no one's saying that we did anything inappropriately, that child is able to share their story on their own.

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_03] Thanks to Detective Jones for talking with us and for her work securing justice for juvenile victims and their families. Thanks to Ms. Ramsey for making the interview happen. And check out the Chair Center's website in our show notes. That is a very worthy cause if you are looking to give charitably.

[00:29:37] [SPEAKER_00] Thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email us at murdersheet at gmail dot com. If you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

[00:29:57] [SPEAKER_03] If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com slash murdersheet. If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www.buymeacoffee.com slash murdersheet. We very much appreciate any support.

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_00] Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet, and who you can find on the web at kevintg.com.

[00:30:31] [SPEAKER_03] If you're looking to talk with other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening.