The Cheat Sheet: Barks and Banks

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_04] I'm Anya, and in today's Cheat Sheet, we'll be traveling to Florida, Hawaii, New Mexico, and North Carolina to check out different criminal cases.

[00:00:08] [SPEAKER_00] Before the episode itself begins, a quick commercial announcement for people who don't like commercial announcements. We do have a Patreon, which you can join. You get early episodes, you get ad-free episodes, and you get a couple of extra episodes a month where we just kind of sit there and talk to you about whatever you want us to talk about. You can ask us questions and we'll answer them.

[00:00:30] [SPEAKER_00] And you can be a little bit silly. And also, we have just recently started something similar on Apple. If you don't like Patreon, you can join via Apple for I think the same amount of money. You could add free episodes and I think we'll probably put the extra episodes in there as well. And for both, I think we put some episodes out a little bit early sometimes.

[00:00:49] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah, sometimes you can be getting bombarded with episodes early. So it's a fun way. I mean, we love our subscribers and it makes it possible for us to do this work and we are very grateful to them and we enjoy getting to sort of hang out with them, answer their questions. And it's kind of a fun community. So if that's something that you would find valuable, then we would definitely encourage you to either go on Patreon or Apple, whichever one you prefer. And you're going to be basically getting the same stuff on both. So don't do both. I don't want people to be like signing up for all of it. And like, you know, like we're not trying to...

[00:01:19] [SPEAKER_04] We're not trying to do that, but...

[00:01:21] [SPEAKER_00] Don't do both unless you want us to be really, really grateful. Now, with that said, let's... shall we get to the episode?

[00:01:27] [SPEAKER_04] Let's do it! Content warning. This episode contains discussion of murder. It also contains discussion of the death of children as well as the molestation of children. So on today's cheat sheet, I feel like we're going to some of the kind of warmer states in the Union. Florida, Hawaii, New Mexico, North Carolina.

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_00] I picked Hawaii. That was my case. I said, Anya, it's time for us to go to the tropics.

[00:01:56] [SPEAKER_04] I think Hawaii is an amazing place and the people there are really nice. So I love Hawaii. I love all the states, of course, but...

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_00] You're in a very mellow mood. So people have said, oh, we enjoy it when Anya gets upset. It sounds like this is just going to be a very rare...

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_04] People are going to hate this episode.

[00:02:13] [SPEAKER_00] People, it's going to be a very rare dose of mellow, relaxed, tropical Anya.

[00:02:20] [SPEAKER_04] You're just saying, what? You're so weird. First of all, and...

[00:02:24] [SPEAKER_00] You're just lying on the beach, letting the sun soak in.

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_04] I can't be... I can't be at a crazy fever pitch of, you know, anger over injustice in the world and nonsense. You have so far. Just for all the years I've known you. Pretty much. I'm just a constantly boiling tea kettle. That's not true. I'm very chill. I'm very quiet in real life.

[00:02:47] [SPEAKER_00] So yeah, I'm a little unnerved by tropical Anya.

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_04] There's no tropical Anya. What the... You're so relaxed. You're making me unrelaxed. Is that what you see your role in this?

[00:03:00] [SPEAKER_00] So this is the Anya people know.

[00:03:02] [SPEAKER_04] There's no tropical Anya. Also, people have problems in Hawaii, as we are going to talk about. That's why they're on the cheat sheet. Crime happens there. Not everyone's just... That's some weird stereotype you're bringing into this.

[00:03:17] [SPEAKER_00] It's never good news for a state. No. They're featured on the cheat sheet.

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_04] I don't want your state on here, folks. It's not going well. Crime is happening. I mean, well, listen, all the states have crime. Everyone's got some problems. So it doesn't mean anything bad for a state. But, you know...

[00:03:32] [SPEAKER_00] So it sounds like this week you're slamming Hawaii.

[00:03:36] [SPEAKER_04] No, I'm not.

[00:03:37] [SPEAKER_00] You're very anti-Hawaii.

[00:03:38] [SPEAKER_04] I love Hawaii. I love Hawaii. The time we went there was amazing. It was a lovely, lovely state.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_00] I think if you truly loved Hawaii, you would welcome being known as Tropical Anya.

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_04] But I'm just saying you're, like, putting out some weird... You're just a weirdo. Just a weird guy.

[00:03:54] [SPEAKER_00] Let's get going. Yeah, whatever.

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_04] My name is Anya Kane. I'm a journalist.

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_00] And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney. And this is The Murder Sheet. We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases. We're The Murder Sheet.

[00:04:09] [SPEAKER_04] And this is the cheat sheet. Barks and bangs.

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_04] What an odd way. It was so odd. No one can see this except for me. But when you came in to say, we're The Murder Sheet, like, you turned your head all the way to the side.

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_00] What was that? I have very interesting mic technique.

[00:05:09] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. The patented Greenlee technique.

[00:05:13] [SPEAKER_00] Serves me well.

[00:05:14] [SPEAKER_04] I guess so. So this is a case that was requested by a listener. Thank you to our listeners who request cases. We always appreciate getting some input on what you want to hear about. And I'm a sucker for picking the listener cases. Kevin goes his own way. Kevin marches to the beat of his own drummer. But I'm very influenced by all of you.

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_04] So this is one of those cases that I think someone actually requested a while ago. And we've gotten to it. So thanks to that person. I have a number of different sources for this one because it involves kind of a couple of different cases that I looked into a bit.

[00:05:55] [SPEAKER_04] NPR, Wavy, the press release from the Justice Department, an article from the Texas Tribune, some more NPR, WBIR, and NBC News. And also some case documents specifically out of Florida. So this is the Florida case. So let's go to this inventory for a search warrant. Some of the documents in this case were sealed because it involves sexual abuse against children.

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_04] So this is, you know, there's a limited, this is limited in what it can include. But I will read it just so we can kind of get started and then talk about some of the wider implications of this case. So, quote, this is from this inventory and search document from the case filings.

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_04] I received this search warrant on the 9th day of January, 2026 and executed to the same 9th day of January, 2026 by delivering a true copy thereof to Hernando County Property Evidence Section, care of Andrew Johnson, white male. And by making a diligent search as hearing directed, upon which I received one, this is a search warrant, was to access Andrew's phone.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_04] The cell phone did shut off before being transported here and performed a security lock reset, which causes most data to be inaccessible. And this is a document from Detective Brent Stentz Jr. And this was for an individual named Andrew Johnson. No, not the terrible president, but an individual in Florida. He was charged.

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_03] You're getting political.

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_04] I'm sorry, are the Andrew Johnson heads going to come for me? You want to do another swing around the circle? Come on. I'll go all day with you. Worst president. I can't stand that guy. Yeah. Sorry. Anyways, I'm still mad about it. Happened in the 1800s, but I'm still mad. But this is a different Andrew Johnson altogether.

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_04] And he is also bad, but in a, you know, in more of a criminal way than messing up reconstruction way. This guy was charged with sexual battery of a victim under 12, suspect over 18, and lewd and lascivious exhibition and molestation, unlawful use of a two-way communication device, and giving harmful material to a minor. So this guy is being accused of being a predator back in January of 2026.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_04] The figures in this case were, for the defense, Devin Sharkey, which is a wonderful name for an attorney, I just want to say. That's great. And for the state, it was William M. Gladston, the state attorney of the Fifth Judicial Circuit, and Casey Jean Whitson, assistant state attorney.

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_04] So this guy, Andrew Paul Johnson, was in March, on Thursday, March 5th, 2026, he was convicted of multiple state charges of child molestation and exposing himself to children.

[00:08:57] [SPEAKER_04] And because Florida, to Florida's credit, the sunshine state, my understanding from just reading about cases there, and I could be wrong, and someone correct me if I'm missing something here, but my sense is that they take a lot of these sexual crimes against children very seriously. Like, I think these often come with some pretty hefty sentences, as they should. So I tip the hat to Florida.

[00:09:25] [SPEAKER_04] Florida sentenced him, my understanding, is to life in prison because a jury found him guilty of these five criminal charges, and he's going away for life. So again, tip the hat to Florida. I personally believe that sentences against people who sexually harm children should only be more stringent across the board, across the country. I don't think we have any use for people like that out in society.

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_04] And so what kind of caught, I think, the national news's attention on this one, and this is, I think, what maybe inspired the person to send it to us and, you know, kind of the reporting that they saw, was that Johnson was not just any random guy doing horrible things. He had been pardoned by President Donald Trump for rioting at the United States Capitol on January 6, 2021.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_04] So we can talk about, you know, some of the kind of ins and outs of that whole situation and how it pertains to his sexual abuse of children case. But, of course, you know, to remind everyone with the, you know, the January 6 riot, you know, that it was an incident that injured like 140 police officers and, you know, caused chaos and was a very, you know, disturbing incident.

[00:10:47] [SPEAKER_04] And on his first day in office for his second term, President Donald Trump pardoned the vast majority of the individuals who had been convicted over that, over a thousand. I think it was like over 1,200, perhaps. I think there were like a handful, like 14 who did not get pardons. And so that is, you know, Johnson was one of the people who participated in that. So this is how that almost interacts with the case in Florida.

[00:11:19] [SPEAKER_04] So he had been charged by the time he met the woman who was the mother of the male victim of Johnson's. So he had been charged. They met at a political rally and she invited him to stay on her couch. She said that, well, he was a handyman and I wanted to help him out and I thought he maybe would fix stuff around the house. So she invited this guy to her house. He slept on the couch and let him stay in her home.

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_04] Now, this is a mother with two boys. So she has two sons. One evening, her 11, her then 11 year old son described, you know, watching a scary movie and falling asleep on the couch. Johnson is next to him. And when he wakes up in the morning, he finds that Johnson is touching his genitals. So that is what he wakes up to. And then it happened again later that year.

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_04] That time, Johnson basically made him swear that he wouldn't tell his mother. So. So, so again, this is after the riot, but it's his his case is kind of going through the process. He's out. He's not being incarcerated, you know, pending those charges. So in April of 2024, Johnson goes back to Washington, D.C. He pleads guilty.

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_04] The charges he pleads guilty are nonviolent charges. There were people who were, you know, specifically accused and charged with violently beating police officers. And then there were others who were more on the trespassing side or property damage. So he was on the nonviolent category and he was sentenced to a year in prison and a year of supervised release after that. So he pled guilty and received that sentence.

[00:13:14] [SPEAKER_04] So. So. He was he was subsequently pardoned. Right. And as a result of that, he started using that to tell the children that if they didn't tell. So he was initially abusing the boy. And then later on, there's another victim. We could talk about that.

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_04] But he's telling them, I'm going to get millions of dollars in restitution money from the government, from the Trump administration, because I was one of the January 6 convicts. And if you don't tell anybody I'm molesting you, I'll split that those millions with you. Like, unbelievable. So and it's not just that he's telling them this.

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_04] He's apparently reporters uncovered social media posts where he's talking all about how he's going to get money from the Trump administration.

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[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_04] So, you know, after he's pardoned, he goes back to this mother of these two boys and he starts regularly sexually abusing her son.

[00:16:07] [SPEAKER_04] And they in addition to that, he's not just doing that in person, but this guy Johnson gets on the online gaming platform Roblox, which has been widely criticized for being seemingly a magnet for pedophiles. And he would go on there. He would get on Discord, the messaging platform. He would send this boy lewd sexual messages.

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_04] And in addition, he then one day takes out the boy and the boy, you know, has a best friend who is a 12 year old girl. He takes them to a day of fun. So they go play paintball. They go to a trampoline park and they go to a hotel swimming pool. And that is when he he exposed himself to them. He made a bunch of explicit sexual comments to them. And he also began sexually abusing the girl victim.

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_04] So an absolute horror, horror show. July of 2025, the the boy's mother. And again, we're not naming them. The press is not naming them because it's a child sexual abuse victim. You know, these you don't you don't name people in that situation. Um, she's beginning to feel like something is off about her son. So she actually confronts both of the children.

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_04] Um, she also does some digging on Discord and finds these disturbing messages from Johnson. So on the they go to the police on August 26, 2025. Um, you know, uh, basically law enforcement hunts this guy down in Tennessee. And, um, he is arrested. And then we come to the recent jury decision where he will be spending the rest of his life in prison.

[00:17:57] [SPEAKER_04] As you can imagine, this is something that, you know, gets politicized, right? Where people are saying, shouldn't let this guy out. Um, or, you know, this, this people like this don't deserve pardons. And the fact that he was basically saying, I'm going to get money. You know, it's certainly become a bit of a, you know, a political football to a certain extent.

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_04] This is a guy's not the only person who's one of those January sixers who essentially has gone on to do crimes against children. Like there are other cases of this. There's other cases where they had actually previously done it prior to 2021 as well. But, um, in one instance, it's this guy, Andrew Quentin Take. I may be saying his name wrong. He, um, was charged with online sexual solicitation of a minor.

[00:18:47] [SPEAKER_04] Um, now in this case, he had been talking to somebody he thought was a 15-year-old girl, but was actually a police officer. So, they were able to kind of bust him for that. And, um, there was a guy, uh, Kyle Travis Colton. He was indicted for receiving child sex abuse materials. And, um, I believe that was in California.

[00:19:13] [SPEAKER_04] He downloaded numerous images and videos of children being sexually assaulted between July of 2022 and December of 2023. He only got six years. To me, like, people don't, I think it's very difficult for people like that to change and to not be doing that anymore. I, I, you know, I'm, that may be controversial. I'm sure some people will be able to say, well, there's, you know, there's things that sex offenders can do.

[00:19:44] [SPEAKER_04] And perhaps, maybe in some instances, but honestly, I just, I feel like the risk is too great to children. I think six, more than six years is warranted. I guess, like, my feeling about this is, you know, I don't know. It's like that, what do you think? Am I, am I, am I being too close-minded in terms of child predators?

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_00] I don't think so. It's a very serious offense that needs to be taken extraordinarily seriously.

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_04] Who would have thought all these child molesters would also be, like, lawless rioters as well? I mean.

[00:20:19] Yeah.

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_00] We often speak about the efforts in Miami County, Indiana, when prosecutors, Courtney Allwine and Jen Kiefer, were able to get a very long sentence for Kagan Klein.

[00:20:33] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah.

[00:20:34] [SPEAKER_00] Which surprised a lot of people because people were saying, oh, he'll be able to, he'll probably be out in a year or something. And no, these prosecutors worked really, really hard to put him away for decades.

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. And I always commend them. I want people in Indiana to look at that as a model. Put these people away for 40 years. We don't need them. They're just a detriment to society. They're a detriment to children. They're predators. And, you know, I guess in a perfect world, I would love for everyone to be rehabilitated and work on that. And I just, I don't think we live in a perfect world.

[00:21:12] [SPEAKER_04] Do I really, do I really trust that enough resources would be devoted to that being effective? No. So, you know, goodbye. On a personal level, too. It's like, I don't know. I think that's a very hard thing to forgive or get past. I just think that is such a cruel and evil thing to do to a child. So I commend Florida for taking that seriously and having sentencing that reflects what I feel is the seriousness of something like this.

[00:21:39] [SPEAKER_04] Abusing this child's trust, abusing the trust of these children and inflicting this upon them. And it just, I think it's a reminder for parents. You know, I think a lot of people would be like, why would you invite this guy over to your house? And I agree with that on some level. But at the same time, I mean, I'm sure this mother is suffering for the choices she made as far as how it really hurt her child, ultimately, her choice to let this person into their lives.

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_04] It's by the government. I'm going to get some money. It's all these manipulative tactics. And you have to just, you know, it sounds like they met at a political rally. She may have agreed with parts of that or agreed with him. And that's and that's one thing. And she's entitled to her opinions, as are all of us. But at the same time, you got to be wondering of like, why does this person want to spend so much time with my child? Like, that's the most important thing.

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_04] Not if you agree or if you like this person, you think they like you. It's like, what is what are those interactions looking like? You know, I just think it's it's horrible. My heart goes out to these two children and to the sibling and to the mom, in fairness. And I, you know, I hope that they feel like there's some measure of justice here. But, you know, it's just it's sad that it happened at all.

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_04] And I would I would hope that, you know, yeah, this is this is a new chapter for them.

[00:23:37] [SPEAKER_00] I agree completely. Moving on to Hawaii, you know, one reason why people like yourself are more relaxed and more in a tropical mood when you're in Hawaii is they have an incredible local journalism organization in Hawaii. I'm talking about the Honolulu Civil Beat.

[00:24:00] [SPEAKER_00] And I think if you had a journalism organization like this in your state, you would be relaxed as tropical Anya. It's just I can't say enough about how great this journalism organization is.

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_04] Kevin's ridiculous statements about me aside, I completely agree. The Honolulu Civil Beat is top notch quality journalism. And I really enjoy reading them. And I wish every state had something this robust.

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_00] Yes. And they are responsible for putting Anya in such a relaxed mood today. I saw her before we were doing the episode just scrolling through their website to say nah.

[00:24:43] [SPEAKER_04] That didn't happen.

[00:24:44] [SPEAKER_00] She is so relaxed. It is it is eerie. And so I like to spotlight some of their work sometimes. And they were indeed the source for the story I'm about to share, which is two young men, two teenagers were in separate incidents charged with murder and then like let out on bail or the equivalent of bail or like ankle monitoring.

[00:25:13] [SPEAKER_00] And then they got involved in other violent episodes. I think one person cut off the ankle monitoring bracelet and they tried to hire a hit man to kill somebody.

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_04] Oh, that's good.

[00:25:27] [SPEAKER_00] And so the question is, why? Why on earth were these judges choosing to let people out and release them after they've been charged with murders? When is Shea Dan Stiles McEnroe-Kalooley? He was holding a gun on someone outside of a nightclub last month.

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_00] And this is while he was on supervised release for a murder.

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_04] Are you kidding me?

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_00] And they say, well, one of the reasons why they let him out was because his mother agreed to sponsor him and keep an eye on him.

[00:26:09] [SPEAKER_04] Oh, his mother who raised him?

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, someone in this article says, well, it's great. It's wonderful when people have people who are willing to say, yes, I will supervise and keep an eye on him. But if they were really that good at supervising and keeping an eye on these people, they probably wouldn't have been involved in these violent incidents that led to the murder charges in the first place.

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah, if he'd been parented properly in the first place, he probably wouldn't be doing this. Also, I saw this. Another thing that the article cites was a reason was his age. I just want to be really clear about something. We can have sympathy as a society for young people who are making bad choices and engaging in violent activities. I think a lot of people understandably are like, hey, their brains aren't quite formed yet. They're a mess. Everyone remembers being an impulsive, wacky teenager.

[00:26:58] [SPEAKER_04] I think that's all a healthy and accurate and logical feeling. I think we also have to recognize the numbers. Young people, especially young men, even teenage young men, teenage boys are significantly more violent and crazy than a lot of, you know, than a lot of us want to acknowledge.

[00:27:19] [SPEAKER_04] Like, you have to weigh the public interest of keeping violent people in prison against this whole, like, I feel bad for them because they're young. I mean, maybe I could I could see some leniency in sentencing in certain occasions. But like, I just I sometimes see people. Oh, it's so outrageous. All these young people, their lives. It's like, who do you think is doing the crimes? Young men. Like, what are we talking about? It's so I remember we watched we're going to talk about this at some point.

[00:27:46] [SPEAKER_04] We watched a John Oliver episode about felony murder, and he was acting so outraged about this felony murder. Guys, it's just it's going after these young guys. Who do you think is doing most of the violent crime? Like, it's not a you know, I don't know. It just bothers me. And I hate it when people are like, I don't think this guy could have done it because he's so young. Young people are sociopaths.

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_04] I mean, I'm kind of kidding, but like, have you ever met middle schoolers like they're they're able to. I mean, I find young people the scariest kinds of criminals because those are the kinds of criminals that will just do anything because they're just I don't know. They're just not quite they're not adults yet. They're not quite formed.

[00:28:30] [SPEAKER_00] One wrinkle about the age of one of the people in these cases is that he is 19. And there was a situation where if you turn 19, you can't be in a juvenile facility anymore. But if you're then put in an adult facility, you're going to be segregated, basically kept in solitary away from the adults. And so then that can be allegedly traumatizing to the 19 year old. And so that was cited as a reason.

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_00] I want to mention this other case, which is Branson Medeiros. He was charged with murder at 16. He was released to his mother's home on an ankle monitor. He cut off that ankle monitor and then actually was on the loose for five weeks.

[00:29:18] [SPEAKER_00] And about the same time that they caught up with him, he had just tried to allegedly hire a hitman to kill some guy that he suspected of being romantically involved with his girlfriend. But he's not yet been charged for that. So this is just another instance of someone young getting a break you wouldn't expect someone to get because obviously murder is an extraordinarily serious charge.

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_00] It's just one of the most serious things you can be charged with. And typically people charged with that offense aren't let out because it seems too much of a risk. Both of they might reoffend is these people seem to have done or they might try to flee. So in both these instances, the prosecutors said, don't do it. Don't do it.

[00:30:15] [SPEAKER_00] And the defense attorneys, obviously defense attorneys always advocate for their clients. And I'll also make the obvious point is that until a matter is disposed of, either through a trial or through a plea, a person who's charged with a crime is presumed innocent.

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_00] And I can imagine a lot of judges saying, I don't want this person who's a kid who's technically innocent to be in a place like prison where he might be made worse.

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_04] He's an adult. He's 19.

[00:30:56] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah.

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_04] I'm sorry. Like what?

[00:30:58] [SPEAKER_00] The other, Branson Medeiros was 16. The other person. He's going to go.

[00:31:03] [SPEAKER_04] He would go to the juvenile hall, right?

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah.

[00:31:07] [SPEAKER_04] I mean, it just seems, I don't know. Like. I don't know why you would let either of these people out. I mean, did the judges give any further reasoning other than just feeling bad because they were young and their moms were going to take care of them for the first time ever?

[00:31:24] [SPEAKER_00] Well, it's hard. The judges have not made any public statements that I'm aware of. Obviously, judges in cases like this, to some extent, base their decisions on confidential reports, like reports prepared by the bail department, pretrial bail reports, risk assessments by the Department of Correction. I think there's a rehabilitation intake center.

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_00] They prepare reports and those reports contain a lot of personal details. And so they are kept confidential. So it's tough to really understand why these judges chose to let these young people out without having access to that confidential information.

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_00] Since both these people reoffended and did violent, harmful things, either by having a gun on someone at a nightclub or trying to hire a hitman, it's clear that it was a mistake to let them out. But it's hard to really understand why the judges made those choices.

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_04] I'm personally often sympathetic to judges in cases like this because it's, you know, you might have someone who's out on bail for something that's more of a property crime and then they go on doing something really violent and people are calling for the judge's head. And it's like in those instances, I don't I don't agree with maybe letting them out. But I also understand why the judge did it. And I feel like maybe the backlash like hindsight is 2020. But I also believe, you know, there is a responsibility to public safety here.

[00:32:58] [SPEAKER_04] And I suppose I just when it's something as serious as murder, as you said, when it's something violent, then it just I don't really understand what these judges are thinking. I think I think sometimes Americans have an over that mean crime is down like there's no arguing against that crime rates are down. We're like we're a safer country in many ways than we have been. Possibly ever. And that doesn't mean that crime goes away, though. It's still a problem.

[00:33:28] [SPEAKER_04] And frankly, crime is such an emotional and personal issue that you can say I can be an egghead and say crimes down, crimes down, crimes down. But like there's a perception of like it's not because of social media and because of how we consume information now and because it's we have a more globalized information economy versus just something being local.

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_04] But I also think stories like this kind of don't really engender the public's don't really get the public's trust in the system if they feel like if they're seeing cases like this or like, OK, you're just going to like let these guys go run rampant. You know, that doesn't seem right. I think it just kind of undermines people's, you know, belief in the system.

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_04] And I think I think if it's when I talk to just like random people or people in our lives or whatever of a variety of different political leanings and locations and where they live. One thing that sets people off is the perception that a judge, a prosecutor or whatnot is soft on crime. People do not like that in my in my experience, like very few. Like, you know, you have people who like might be on the more prison abolition track or whatever.

[00:34:39] [SPEAKER_04] But like most people that I talk to are just like they get this in set like this makes people so mad. Is that what you've seen?

[00:34:47] [SPEAKER_00] Absolutely.

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_04] I understand that because it's like you're kind of just like, are you kidding me? You know, like this is ridiculous. And it's like, OK, because they like, oh, because it's going to make them sad. Like, like, what are we doing? But it's more complicated than that. I think it's more important. I think it's important to remember it's more complicated than that. But I think it is also OK to say, you know, is an elected official serving our interests if they're continuously letting people like this out to run to run rampant and, you know, having those conversations, too. I think it's a nuanced conversation.

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_04] But I think, you know, I commend the Honolulu civil beat for reporting on it. What was with their reporting? I'm curious. Did they kind of did they seem to have an editorial opinion? And kind of it seems like by covering this, they're certainly indicating like, hey, this is something we should probably be paying attention to.

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, I think that. And let's give credit. And I apologize if I'm mispronouncing her name. This article is written by Madeline Valera. It's a very thorough article. She talked to everybody. She talked to prosecutors. She talked to public defenders. She talked to retired judges. She raises all of the relevant arguments per con.

[00:35:57] [SPEAKER_00] I think we can agree that the seriousness of murder is such that we should be very reluctant to let out people who have been charged with that, even if you have them on ankle monitors. Because is this one of these cases proves it's possible to remove an ankle monitor and just be in the wind?

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_04] I completely agree. I think that's a pretty bare minimum. Frankly, I'm of the opinion increasingly that while bail reform for property crimes was very, very much in vogue in recent years and while I think it was extremely well intentioned and, you know, coming from a very good place.

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_04] When you have, like, basically kind of recurring criminals doing most of the crime and possibly escalating at different points, I think there's an argument that that went too far. And that it's causing more problems and that it's not the best way to handle things. So, I mean, I would go further. But I think that it's certainly, I mean, certainly excellent reporting.

[00:37:02] [SPEAKER_04] I'm curious, like, just to get the other side of it, with the public defender side, with the defense side, with this, are they maybe stating anything of, like, yes, this is a bad outcome in these situations, but here's the counterpoint?

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. For instance, I think I mentioned you are innocent until proven guilty.

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_04] Naturally, yes.

[00:37:20] [SPEAKER_00] It can be traumatizing for a young person to be incarcerated. This person who cut off his ankle monitor and went missing for five weeks, he says he did it because some rival gang members, like, showed up at his house and they were members of a gang when he, they were members of the same gang that his alleged victim belonged to. And so he was scared.

[00:37:48] [SPEAKER_04] Maybe he should have been in juvenile detention then. Like, that would have taken care of that problem.

[00:37:55] [SPEAKER_00] I would imagine in a situation like this, where you are worried, oh, no, my rival gang is going to come and kill me. Contact the court. Let the court know what's going on. And if you really have a good, legitimate reason where it is necessary to do something, the court can understand.

[00:38:18] [SPEAKER_00] Just when you cut off your ankle monitor and then have no contact with the court for five weeks, you pretty much deserve what you get.

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_04] And what, he hired a hitman because he, like, yeah, come on. I mean, I don't know. I understand where the defense attorney, and I certainly don't blame them for this because I feel like, you know, they got to argue for their client. I mean, that's going to be what you're going to try to do, obviously. And I'm sure in many cases, nothing like this happens, you know, but it's just I think when it's so serious, it just needs to be taken more seriously by judges.

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_00] And then I wanted to move on to New Mexico. And my source for this is the WKRQE.com. And this is the, again, I apologize if I mispronounced it, the Kalen or Kalen LaFleur case. This goes back to January of 2022.

[00:39:20] [SPEAKER_00] Mr. LaFleur had a neighbor that had a barking dog that was disturbing him. And there was a long history of confrontations between him and the neighbor over this barking dog. There would be occasions, we are told, where he would go over and confront the guy by the dog and be yelling at him.

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_00] And then the guy he's confronting yells back and says, get out of here. And eventually Mr. LaFleur leaves. But in January of 2022, Mr. LaFleur goes over there in a car, a vehicle. And instead of yelling, he just lays on the horn, just this big blast from the horn.

[00:40:15] [SPEAKER_00] And the dog owner comes out and he has a gun. And it is unclear what happened next. The dog owner claims that Mr. LaFleur started driving towards him. And so that it was necessary to shoot him in self-defense.

[00:40:39] [SPEAKER_00] Mr. LaFleur's family says, no, he was, if he was moving in the vehicle, he was going in reverse and trying to get away. But we do know that the dog owner fired the weapon and Mr. LaFleur ended up dead. And as I say, this happened in 2022. There has not yet been a legal determination if this was self-defense or murder.

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_00] The investigation is ongoing. The prosecutor says that the state police have not even turned over all the evidence of phones and extractions and things of that nature so they can make a decision. The family is very upset about this delay. The police say, well, you know, people get reassigned or get promoted. And when someone else comes on the case, they just kind of start all over. So I'm sure that's part of it.

[00:41:38] [SPEAKER_00] But I think another part of it is, frankly, just when I look at the basic facts of this case, it is ambiguous. There is a witness who says, no, he was going in reverse. But that witness says they don't like the dog owner and are afraid of the dog owner. So I don't know if they're saying that out of personal animosity or if it's what they actually saw.

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_00] But that could be something that could be problematic on the stand. If your whole case boils down to whether or not this man was going in reverse or going forward, unless you have absolutely crystal clear evidence of the movements of that vehicle, that's going to be a very tough case to bring.

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_04] Nor should it be a case that you bring. Like, that's not something I know people like people get mad. They're like, oh, no, just, you know, roll the dice. No, like you should not. A prosecutor should not be bringing a case that they are not confident that they will win. That's wrong. That's prosecutorial misconduct in many cases. Right.

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_03] Yes.

[00:42:45] [SPEAKER_04] So. I'm very sympathetic to the LeFleur family. To me, it sounds like this madhouse of barking dogs and people grabbing guns. They they that that trips my alarms as well as far as who was in the wrong here. But that's just the vibe I'm getting. I could be wrong. Right. Like, that's not enough to have a case.

[00:43:10] [SPEAKER_04] You like you would need a video showing what happened, like even blurry surveillance kind of showing directionally what happened. Like, you know, just even did the car move forward, backward? What happened? Maybe like data from the car, if it's the kind of car that would have that. You know, you need. A lot of people feel like every case can be, quote unquote, solved. And like, I don't I just don't believe that.

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_04] I think there's a lot of cases where it's ambiguous enough that there's just never going to be charges and people have to accept that. I would never tell a victim's family to accept that because I just imagine the hurt and pain of that is just so immense that I think the general public has to accept that.

[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah.

[00:43:54] [SPEAKER_04] And you don't want wrongful prosecution.

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_00] This reminded me of something. I'm going to be vague on the details.

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_04] Oh, my gosh. I know what you're going to say.

[00:44:04] [SPEAKER_00] What?

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_04] I'm not going to. I mean, I'll tell you if I was right.

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_00] OK. So a few years ago, Anya and I went to a neighborhood meeting in downtown Indianapolis.

[00:44:18] [SPEAKER_04] I was wrong. I thought you were going to say something else entirely. Go ahead.

[00:44:21] [SPEAKER_00] What did you think I was going to say?

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_04] I thought you were going to compare it to a case where there was a lot of public pressure to being charged and then it didn't even get to. It was dismissed before the, you know.

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_00] No.

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_04] Mid-trial.

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. We went to this victim's, this meeting in downtown Indianapolis community meeting where there were homicide detectives, prosecutors talking with members of the community who had been impacted by violent crime. And there was this one man there whose mother, I'm going to be vague on the details, his mother had been killed in a car.

[00:44:57] [SPEAKER_00] And we know who was in the car with his mother. But that person had at least a reasonably plausible story for self-defense. And even if in your heart of hearts, you think, well, I don't think that self-defense claim holds water. Unless you can disprove it, you can't bring the case. You can't just bring a case based on your vibes.

[00:45:27] [SPEAKER_00] You have to have evidence. You have to be able to prove every single element beyond a reasonable doubt. And so this man is left with the knowledge that his mother's killer is likely to get away. And he was very upset and very sad. And my heart went out to him. But in these matters, if the evidence isn't there, even if you think you know what happened, you can't bring the charges.

[00:45:56] [SPEAKER_04] I guess like the thing reading about this case with Mr. LaFleur that does frustrate me is it feels like his family has been having a hard time even getting a meeting with the New Mexico State Police. They've, you know, they've gotten the runaround. They're not really being treated with what I would consider respect and courtesy. And on the one hand, I understand the police side. I think you're, you know, you're bombarded with cases.

[00:46:26] [SPEAKER_04] Many of these detectives, I imagine, are just drowning. People get transferred. Then someone else has to take that case. Whatever. There's like a lot going on. And then, you know, and in this case, it's like maybe an ambiguous case. And it's like we may not ever be able to make this. And because the facts may not even support it. But like so I understand then going to something that's more active or something that's more like, OK, we're going to actually get something done here. That being said, though, I mean, these people have still lost somebody.

[00:46:56] [SPEAKER_04] And I think they deserve more responsiveness. I would love to see there be more of a kind of a I think a system is needed, a systemic change as far as because, again, I see both sides.

[00:47:09] [SPEAKER_04] But if if basically police are oftentimes too busy and bombarded, there needs to be some kind of like victim advocacy side of things or something or some kind of designated aspect of the job of policing that is dealing with victims families in a respectful way. I'm not saying that that means like just do whatever they say or like, OK, yeah, be calling, you know, like doing five calls a day. It's like there just has to be some kind of like process that everyone is aware of.

[00:47:39] [SPEAKER_04] OK, this is how it's going to work. We're going to do X number of meetings or we're going to answer these questions or whatever and have it be codified in some way. I would love to see that. I think it would probably. Be a comfort to people who are already in a lot of pain. And I again, like I think a lot of victims families or people who die in these kind of circumstances, they're not going to be understanding when they're told, hey, there's no way we can bring charges here. But I think it would help at least if they it might help.

[00:48:09] [SPEAKER_04] It might help if they knew why or they knew what the limitations were. I know there are just disputes about like cell phone and dash cam footage and the dash cam, the police are saying didn't capture the relevant moment and the family's skeptical of that. I think that kind of skepticism that could in some cases, I'm not saying that's the case here, but in some cases we see that veer into actual conspiracy theorizing. The police are hiding stuff and it gets kind of crazy.

[00:48:38] [SPEAKER_04] But I think oftentimes that comes from just the frustration of like, hey, you're not doing anything and I'm not even hearing back from you and we're being treated like an afterthought and my son's case is just being forgotten. So. I think more needs to be done. I think reform needs to happen in that in that avenue. And again, like I, I see both sides of it, but ultimately. I feel like our society and by dint of that, our policing infrastructure.

[00:49:07] [SPEAKER_04] You know, being kinder to people who've gone through this is not just kinder, being more informative and being. Helping them not be re-traumatized by this whole thing to the extent possible is, is I think, a good thing and something I would like to see. It's very sad. I mean, again, these people with the dogs and all that and a guy coming out with a gun. Why are you coming out with a gun? Like, stay inside. Like, come on. If you feel threatened by this guy outside, then call the police.

[00:49:36] [SPEAKER_04] Like, you know, what are we doing here? But it sounds really sketchy to me. And like, I agree with his family for being like, I think this guy was murdered because like personally, like just reading this, I'm like, but I also. Without something more concrete, it just seems like it'd be very difficult.

[00:49:51] [SPEAKER_00] Just to play, I'm not taking sides here, but just as a devil's advocate, the other side of it is you have a dog and you have a guy who regularly comes over to your house.

[00:50:04] [SPEAKER_04] And yells at you.

[00:50:04] [SPEAKER_00] And just screams from your front lawn until you yell at him to leave. He does this often. And then he seems to escalate because now he's just coming up and he's just honking. And just leaves his hand on the horn. I could see where that would seem to be threatening.

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_04] I totally think that's threatening, by the way. I'm not saying he acted well here. But I think coming into any situation with a gun, you're making a choice to bring that gun in. Like, that is like he can't honk you to death. You know, I mean, like, and you can stay indoors. And I would feel threatened. I would probably call the police of like this guy is coming and harassing us. But I think bringing a gun into the situation is wild.

[00:50:50] [SPEAKER_04] Because again, like now, if this guy's trying to kick down my door, that's a different story. That's a different, like if he's coming at me and my family and I have like that, that's a different story. It's just more of like going out to confront somebody with a gun is a whole choice that you're making. And rarely a good choice. It also just sounds like this is a classic, like a lot of people have to deal with bad neighbors.

[00:51:16] [SPEAKER_04] Like, but like I think a lot of things like, you know, you got to either let it go or you got to you got to move or you got to have a conversation with people. Sometimes people are not going to have the conversation with you and then then the other two options are made. But like you can't you can't. Let that get so crazy, you know, like like to the point where this kind of confrontation doesn't do anything for anybody.

[00:51:46] [SPEAKER_04] Like it's not going to fix your problem. If your neighbors are so inconsiderate that they're letting their dog bark constantly and it's causing problems for everybody in the community. I don't think they're going to be intimidated by you honking at them.

[00:51:58] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah.

[00:51:59] [SPEAKER_04] Like they're already like kind of shown that they're not really pro social and they're not really like interested in helping anyone else out. So like I just you got to kind of just write people off at some point. Sometimes I feel like the people who get really frustrated about everything are like the optimists in society. Like they think this shouldn't be this way. And it's like, no, but it is, you know, it's just sad that it costs a man's life. It's obviously very sad. It sounds like he had a newborn baby, too. So I imagine like him being kind of sleep deprived, maybe.

[00:52:28] [SPEAKER_04] That would make anyone more on edge.

[00:52:30] [SPEAKER_00] It's a very sad situation. But Anya, why don't you take us to our final case of the program?

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_04] Absolutely. We'll do.

[00:52:39] [SPEAKER_00] And I appreciate the very calm and restrained, laid back way you're responding to everything this week. Even that we'll do is just like a I feel like I'm in the islands, this cool breeze going over me as I watch the waves. So with that in mind, take us home.

[00:53:00] [SPEAKER_04] That's where you always are. So my case is out of North Carolina, the great state home of the Great Dismal Swamp, as we all know. I've been there. It's pretty cool.

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_00] You always like to insert some trivia about the states. Yeah.

[00:53:18] [SPEAKER_04] Well, the Great Dismal Swamp is really neat because it was a refuge for enslaved people who escaped. The term is often called maroons. They were like that was the community. So they would actually hide out in the swamp after escaping.

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_00] The maroons?

[00:53:36] [SPEAKER_04] Maroons. That's the historical term. That's like basically a maroon. So in the Americas and I think in other areas when, you know, the Africans who were taken and kidnapped and forced into slavery by Europeans would escape. They were referred to as maroons. And it's I believe it derives from a Spanish word.

[00:54:02] [SPEAKER_04] And they would, you know, they would like hide in different environments and oftentimes kind of remote or inhospitable ones. And the Great Dismal Swamp was one such place where they were, you know, going, you know, fleeing, fleeing slavery and hiding out there. So it's an interesting history.

[00:54:23] [SPEAKER_00] And you were telling me.

[00:54:25] [SPEAKER_04] Beautiful location.

[00:54:26] [SPEAKER_00] You were telling me that they call it the nickname is the Old North State.

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah. I didn't know the nickname to be honest. All I know. I've been to North Carolina a couple of times. One time was to go to the Great Dismal Swamp. So that forms a real bulk of my experiences in North Carolina. But very friendly people.

[00:54:47] [SPEAKER_00] Great comic book convention there.

[00:54:48] [SPEAKER_04] Great comic book convention.

[00:54:49] [SPEAKER_00] In the Old North State.

[00:54:50] [SPEAKER_04] They scared you off because they were too friendly for your Midwestern stoicism values where you were running. And they're all smiling and trying to help you. And you're like, get away from me.

[00:55:02] [SPEAKER_00] That's not what happened.

[00:55:03] [SPEAKER_04] The hostile Hoosier.

[00:55:04] [SPEAKER_00] They have like fish camps where you can go and they'll say, here's fish, Kevin. And you can take it. And you can take it.

[00:55:12] [SPEAKER_04] And everybody's happy. That's North Carolina for you. Well, unfortunately, a very sad thing happened in North Carolina recently. And then a terrible thing happened after that. So this is one of those cases where fortunately there is no murder, although there is death. But there is crime. And that was a weird way to say that. I don't know. We're going to go forward. My sources for this one are a sort of preliminary report from the National Transportation Safety Board. A summary on their website.

[00:55:40] [SPEAKER_04] A really in-depth article from the Charlotte Observer, which is great. And I think that's kind of a big part of what we know right now. So this centers around a gentleman named Gregory Jack Biffle. He was in December of 2025. His birthday was December 23, 1969. So he was 55, about to turn 56 on December 18, 2025. And he was a pretty well-known guy in his circle.

[00:56:10] [SPEAKER_04] He was a professional stock car racing driver. And he was from 2002 to 2022, he was driving in the NASCAR Cup Series. And, you know, honestly, to me, NASCAR is not something I really know anything about. But I know, you know, a lot of people derive a lot of enjoyment from it. It's definitely a popular thing. So I think, you know, for those people, he's like one of those successful people in that field, I imagine.

[00:56:39] [SPEAKER_04] And, you know, he also had a family. So he was married to a woman named Christina. He was married. He had two children, a 14-year-old daughter, Emma, five-year-old son, Ryder. And, you know, they just, you know, you see pictures of them, seem like a happy, beautiful family. And unfortunately, tragedy did strike on December 18, 2025. This is a horrible, horrible non-crime, but still like a horrible situation. Like, worst nightmare type things.

[00:57:06] [SPEAKER_04] They were, the family, the Biffle family, the entire family, went in a Cessna 550 Citation II business jet, which was owned by an LLC called GB Aviation Leasing, and that was owned by Biffle. And at this point, you know, he's retired, but they're heading from North Carolina to Florida. And they're heading out from the Statesville Airport around 10.06 a.m. So this is Statesville, North Carolina. That's where they're heading out from.

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_04] The weather conditions, low clouds, light rain. They go up, and they're not alone. So it's the Biffle family. It is a man named Craig Wadsworth. And then the pilot is Dennis Dutton and his son Jack Dutton are all on board. Now, here's something that was maybe, you know, something that I don't really know much about flying either. Flying in NASCAR is not something I know much about, but I guess there are certain, like, ratings for pilots.

[00:58:00] [SPEAKER_04] And with this kind of aircraft, it had to have, like, two pilots who were a certain type of rating. And in this case, the pilot Dennis Dutton was the only one with that rating. And that Jack Dutton, his son, seemed to be acting as the first officer, but he did not have that rating. Although he and Greg Biffle were pilots. They were rated. Like, they had the qualifications to be pilots, just not that specific rating.

[00:58:27] [SPEAKER_04] So pretty quickly it became clear that there was something wrong with the plane. They went apparently, like, 11 miles and then turned back to the airport. And what the National Transportation Safety Board investigation has found so far is that there was possibly a malfunctioning thrust reverser indicator. There were statements from the cockpit about the left engine not starting. And, you know, I don't really know much about air accidents.

[00:58:57] [SPEAKER_04] But there was a they lost airspeed and they ultimately hit a light structure near the runway. They crashed and burned up around 1015 to 1020. And they were all killed. And it's horrible. I mean, to die in a plane wreck like that is just a very scary thing. A whole family wiped out. It's just awful. And I think, you know, after the death of the Biffles and these other gentlemen, there was certainly an outpouring of grief.

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_04] And I'm sure people who are fans of NASCAR, you know, it was very upsetting. And people were, you know, talking about it and made the national news because he is a well-known figure in that circle. And. You know, everyone's very upset. But now it's like adding insult to injury because now there's been some crimes done in the wake of Biffles death. And it's just bizarre. What's going on? Yeah, it's bizarre.

[00:59:49] [SPEAKER_04] And thank you to, by the way, I should say, a listener recommended my other case and then another listener recommended this one. So thank you to that person for reaching out and recommending it. We always really appreciate hearing from you guys. Means a lot to us. And so what what we're seeing so far is a little bit vague because. I've seen some speculation. I've seen some things. Maybe if I do more of a deep dive, I'll find more. But I didn't really see a lot of our outlets reporting a name.

[01:00:17] [SPEAKER_04] But what investigators are saying now is that. Somebody or some people have been capitalizing off of Greg Biffles and the whole Biffles family's death in order to steal money from their home and bank accounts. Like this family dies horribly in a horrible accident. And then people are sweeping in to steal from their estate. And let's think about this for a minute.

[01:00:47] [SPEAKER_04] What the police are saying is that the people who are doing this were their friends. Like that level of betrayal. I just like vultures swooping in. So. For because this, I think, involves some financial misdeeds, this is actually involving the United States Secret Service. Many people. Think of them as like the president's bodyguards. And that's certainly true. But they also have the, you know, financial component that they also do.

[01:01:17] [SPEAKER_04] What is being reported right now is that the Biffles had a home in Mooresville, North Carolina. And, you know, they died on December 18th. And that there was some kind of January 7th break in on at their home on Lake Norman in Mooresville. And there was a that was supposed to basically.

[01:01:45] [SPEAKER_04] This is what this is what the Charlotte Observer quotes from an official document that they obtained. Quote, that break in quote was a cover up to steal evidence of a more elaborate plan against the Biffle family and their wealth, not only of money, but property as well. End quote. So somebody went into their home that night, spent a ton of time in there, stole three, $30,000, $30,000, two Glock handguns and a bunch of NASCAR memorabilia.

[01:02:15] [SPEAKER_04] So they also around this time, I think, I mean, I believe that they believe this is connected, but there was a takeover of the financial accounts, email accounts and subsequent larceny of money owned by Biffle and his wife. His wife, Christina Grissu. So, yeah, now this is interesting, but my understanding is that there has not been an arrest yet.

[01:02:41] [SPEAKER_04] The investigators, according to these documents cited, supposedly believe that the person on surveillance video at the house breaking in. Match that of a woman. They saw at a celebration of Greg Biffle's life on December 16th. So, I don't know.

[01:03:04] [SPEAKER_04] Although, I don't really know if that date is right because celebration of life would come after someone's death and that's two days before. So, I don't know. May just be a typo here. But, yeah, this woman would, they know who the woman is and they believe it's a friend of Christina Grissu. And, apparently, they picked up a pickup truck with a license plate reader that belongs to the woman's husband near their home just before the break-in.

[01:04:00] [SPEAKER_04] So, yeah. There was a Benmo account. There were, on December 29th, there was a change to the account information that belonged to Greg Biffle at United Carolina Bank. A fraudulent check cashed at that bank, a branch of that bank in Columbia, South Carolina, from Greg Biffle's account. And then they tried to do three more checks at different branches.

[01:04:28] [SPEAKER_04] So, like, this does not appear to be some kind of confusion over, like, oh, well, they owed us this money or whatever. This seems to be like someone's trying to, like, pass off bad checks and, like, get access to all their money. I mean, this is insane to me.

[01:04:41] [SPEAKER_03] This is awful.

[01:04:43] [SPEAKER_04] I don't know how evil you could be to do this to your friends. Like, you'd think you'd just be, like, reeling from your friends dying and being really upset about, like, oh, my gosh, this, like, young family is wiped out in just a tragic accident. And these people are just, like, grifting off of their, I mean, horrible. But, again, we don't really, I mean, it's not clear to me who this is or what's going on. I, you know, I think I've seen some discussion of names and whatever, but, I mean, I didn't see enough in the mainstream news that I feel comfortable saying anything.

[01:05:14] [SPEAKER_04] It's really troubling. But it, unfortunately, you know, there are a lot of, we talk about, there are a lot of sexual predators out there. There's also a lot of financial predators. I mean, I think I saw, like, some posts on social media today and, not today, recently, but it resonated with me. It was like, sometimes it feels like everyone and everything is trying to scam you. You know, everything's trying to get you to spend more money or overpay or trick you into signing something. And, like, I feel that sometimes.

[01:05:43] [SPEAKER_04] But, you know, you trust your friends, you know, like, that's not a business. That's just, like, your friends hanging out with you. So it would be very sad if this turns out to be true and that friends were actually taking advantage of these folks or doing something against their interests and trying to get money from them.

[01:06:00] [SPEAKER_00] I agree completely. So before we wrap up, how does it feel to do an episode of the cheat sheet without raising your blood pressure, just being mellow, just relaxed? How is it different?

[01:06:17] [SPEAKER_02] I don't.

[01:06:19] [SPEAKER_00] Tropical Anya. You're just smiling. You're not even saying anything.

[01:06:26] [SPEAKER_02] I don't know what to say to you.

[01:06:29] [SPEAKER_00] See, angry Anya would be, like, yelling and cursing. But just tropical Anya just has a smile on her face. I don't know. For the whole human race.

[01:06:36] [SPEAKER_04] I think you're totally delusional. And I don't know. I never know what weird stuff you're going to say. And I just want to tell the listener something. Whenever you guys post in our Facebook group or send us emails, they're like, Oh, yes, Kevin said he threw his top hat in the air and then he sailed away in a floating balloon. He has no idea what. He doesn't remember saying this. You're like totally delusional when you get on the mic.

[01:07:04] [SPEAKER_04] And then I have to pick up the pieces later because he'll be like, What did I say? I don't remember saying that. That's crazy. And that's where we're going here. And then you say, I'm sorry I said that.

[01:07:15] [SPEAKER_00] I think it's obvious that tropical Anya has been out in the heat too long. Doesn't know what she's saying. That surprises no one. Oh, my God. Should mention, Anya. We all know Anya has become a huge fan of college football now.

[01:07:36] [SPEAKER_04] And so have you, sir. Are you putting all the football responsibility on me?

[01:07:40] [SPEAKER_00] Isn't it fair to say your fandom is much greater than mine?

[01:07:44] [SPEAKER_04] Yeah, it probably is. Yeah.

[01:07:46] [SPEAKER_00] Much, much greater than mine.

[01:07:48] [SPEAKER_04] We're subverting gendered expectations here.

[01:07:53] [SPEAKER_00] I feel that if I never mentioned football again, you'd still be talking about it just as much.

[01:07:58] [SPEAKER_04] I probably would.

[01:08:00] [SPEAKER_00] And if you never mentioned it again, I'd never mention it again. And I'd probably be happier for it.

[01:08:08] [SPEAKER_04] Oh, my God. Oh, my God. You're the worst.

[01:08:12] [SPEAKER_00] It's moved from college football to now. Over the weekend, we went to see an indoor football thing. We did see an indoor football. In Fishers, Indiana.

[01:08:24] [SPEAKER_04] We did see it. And it was also mostly an excuse to hang out with our friends, which we love seeing them. So we were very happy to do it. But yeah, it was interesting. It was actually fun.

[01:08:33] [SPEAKER_00] Indoor football.

[01:08:35] [SPEAKER_04] It's different.

[01:08:35] [SPEAKER_00] It was Star Wars night. But indoor football is similar to regular football, to my imperfect understanding, except that the players make much, much, much, much less.

[01:08:49] [SPEAKER_04] And everything is smaller. But you can see it better.

[01:08:54] [SPEAKER_00] The game is, for lack of a better word, rigged. The rules are changed to encourage a lot of scoring.

[01:09:03] [SPEAKER_04] There you go. You cracked the code.

[01:09:06] [SPEAKER_00] And yeah, we went with some friends. And we have a mutual friend with them who actually has appeared on the program. And they said, oh yeah, this weekend, we're taking Kevin and Anya to a football game. So Kevin and Anya go into a football game?

[01:09:22] [SPEAKER_04] What?

[01:09:24] [SPEAKER_00] But they're nerds.

[01:09:27] [SPEAKER_04] Are you sure they're not going to get scared? The players are coming for them. Yeah.

[01:09:32] [SPEAKER_00] Somebody's going to steal their lunch money.

[01:09:33] [SPEAKER_04] Someone's going to shove them in lockers.

[01:09:35] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah.

[01:09:36] [SPEAKER_04] Oh my gosh. This is how people think of it. This is how we come across to people.

[01:09:39] [SPEAKER_03] Yes.

[01:09:40] [SPEAKER_04] We're not like cool jocks. You know, I have everyone now, I was the captain of my high school swim team, varsity. Thank you. And now, ignore the fact that I was the only senior who was able to really be able to swim well doing it. You know, just because it's a default election doesn't mean, doesn't take that away from me. They can't take that away from you. You were, you didn't do any sports. You were the champion, you were the best player of your little league, right? What?

[01:10:09] [SPEAKER_04] Wasn't there some?

[01:10:10] [SPEAKER_00] The heat has gotten to her, ladies and gentlemen.

[01:10:13] [SPEAKER_04] I know what I'm talking about. You were, you were, um, remember there wasn't, weren't coaches like looking at you because you had really good stats, but that was just because like the ball never came to you in the minute it did.

[01:10:24] [SPEAKER_00] Oh yeah.

[01:10:25] [SPEAKER_04] It was all, the illusion was shattered.

[01:10:28] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. For a while, I was the only member of my T-ball team who didn't have any fielding errors because I was a left fielder.

[01:10:36] [SPEAKER_01] Wow, that guy's good.

[01:10:38] [SPEAKER_00] Nobody ever hit the ball to, uh, left field.

[01:10:41] [SPEAKER_01] That guy's the best ever doing it. People were looking at you. Wow.

[01:10:45] Ah.

[01:10:45] [SPEAKER_00] I was like, uh, Roy Hobbs.

[01:10:51] [SPEAKER_01] Coaches were like, how do I get that guy on my team?

[01:10:53] [SPEAKER_04] He knows what he's doing.

[01:10:58] [SPEAKER_00] Out in the heat.

[01:11:00] [SPEAKER_04] Well.

[01:11:01] [SPEAKER_00] I think Tropica Anya needs to go in, get some time in an air conditioned room.

[01:11:06] [SPEAKER_04] Well, oh, doggies update. So our friends met Nick and Nora. So that was fun.

[01:11:12] [SPEAKER_00] And Nick behaved inappropriately.

[01:11:13] [SPEAKER_04] Don't say. Our dog's a sex pest. He wasn't humping anybody, but he was definitely being really weird. Um, and I, I, what was it? The, but you know, here's the thing. He's a pup. You know, he's, he's just a little, he's just a little guy. He's, he's going to turn. I hope he'll be turning. I think this episode comes out with the 15th and he'll be turning two at the end of May. So he's almost two.

[01:11:40] [SPEAKER_00] So would he turn to a different time if the episode was released on a different day? Oh my God.

[01:11:45] [SPEAKER_04] You. Why do you have to mention the release date? I wanted to, I wanted to figure out, like, I wanted to be like, he's, I wanted to say like, he's turning two in a couple of days, but then I was like, I don't want to risk it. I'm not good at math.

[01:11:56] [SPEAKER_00] You know, if this episode came out, this episode came out on May 17th, I'd be 21.

[01:12:02] [SPEAKER_04] I want to know what the people have to say about fucking sassy Kevin. Who's, I don't, you've been, you've been ramping up to this. If I'm salty on him a lot of the time and yelling and getting pissed off, you're like acting like a little impish, you know, trickster over there doing all these, like what is going on? And do people like this? Are they exasperated?

[01:12:31] [SPEAKER_04] Are they seething with fury and going to have a conversation with Kevin after this episode? No, I'm just kidding. But no, it's just, yeah, you're, you're, you're being very impish. You got a twinkle in your eye.

[01:12:41] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. It's the Irishman in me, but let's get in. Let's get into.

[01:12:50] [SPEAKER_04] You said to me recently, this was so embarrassing because it was so true. And I was so mad about it. You ever have someone who really knows you say something about you and you're like, that's accurate, but how dare you? I was editing a episode with a really, really great guest who's very smart. And she, and you'll, I mean, you'll figure out who this is once the episode comes up. She made a joke about, you know, how we were both Irish. And so we would never get off the call and we would just be talking forever.

[01:13:19] [SPEAKER_04] And I said, yeah, isn't that true, Kevin? And you said, you said definitely true for me. What did you say? I had like, I had like the, the something about Blarney.

[01:13:28] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. You love the Blarney.

[01:13:29] [SPEAKER_04] I love the Blarney. Fuck you. That's awful. But it's so true. I never stopped talking to people. Yeah. I'm like very shy, but I also never shut up. It's a terrible combination. Cause then afterwards I'm like, what was I saying?

[01:13:44] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. We're supposed to talk to someone on the phone just as friends. And you said, Kevin, if I get on that call, we'll be on the phone with them for hours.

[01:13:51] [SPEAKER_04] We got a lot. We got to shut this down. We got stuff to do.

[01:13:54] [SPEAKER_00] But let's get into the air conditioning. I'm worried about you. So let's say good night to the people. Are you worried? Are you really worried? Let's say good night to the people. Oh my God. You said a lot of crazy things.

[01:14:05] [SPEAKER_04] What did I say?

[01:14:06] [SPEAKER_00] You said I'm too sassy.

[01:14:08] [SPEAKER_04] No, I'm asking the people what they think of sassy, Kevin. What I have to deal with every day of my fucking life.

[01:14:19] [SPEAKER_00] Let's get into the air conditioning. Thanks so much for listening to The Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email us at murdersheet at gmail.com. If you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

[01:14:42] [SPEAKER_04] If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com slash murdersheet. If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www.buymeacoffee.com slash murdersheet. We very much appreciate any support.

[01:15:06] [SPEAKER_00] Special thanks to Kevin Greenlee, who composed the music for The Murder Sheet, and who you can find on the web at kevintg.com.

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