The Cheat Sheet: Cheesesteaks and Changelings

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[00:01:09] [SPEAKER_00] That's Shop.com, shopping designed around you. No purchase necessary. Restrictions apply. Official rules available at Shop.com. I'm Anya, and today on the cheat sheet, we're going to be going to Utah, Indiana, Florida, and then across the border to Mexico and back again to Arizona.

[00:01:25] [SPEAKER_02] And, Anya, just before we started recording...

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_00] My name's Anya, by the way.

[00:01:29] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. You'd think that after all these years, I would recall your name, but it's...

[00:01:36] [SPEAKER_00] Stunning. A stunning start. A stunning start to the cheat sheet.

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_02] But that's, you know... What people don't know is usually before we record, you prepare cue cards for me.

[00:01:46] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah.

[00:01:47] [SPEAKER_02] And you said, Kevin, just wing it today. I'm sure you will remember my name. And you've been proven wrong.

[00:01:51] [SPEAKER_00] People don't know this, but I actually script out every single thing Kevin says on the show. Like, I'm that controlling. Like, you're never hearing him riffing or off... Like, that is something I have given him ahead of time and forced him to memorize.

[00:02:03] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, you like to call yourself the puppet master, the puppeteer.

[00:02:08] [SPEAKER_00] I'm the Svengali of your life.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_02] Yes. So, what a nightmare.

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_00] This took a dark turn.

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_02] What a nightmare I live.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_00] Hashtag free Kevin.

[00:02:19] [SPEAKER_02] But you were talking before we started recording about how excited you are about Halloween.

[00:02:27] [SPEAKER_00] I am so excited about Halloween.

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_02] Tell everybody what you were just telling me about the costume you prepared.

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_00] I have not prepared a costume. I think it's fine if adults want to wear their costumes to the parties or to do whatever they want. I'm not that person, but that's okay. Usually what I do... Here's my strategy. Here's what I do. I will, you know, we give candy to the trick-or-treaters. We got a lot of trick-or-treaters in our neighborhood in years past, so that's nice. And I will wear kind of a colorful, you know, skirt with a black top. And then I'll put on a witch's hat to answer the door and give candy.

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_00] But then I feel self-conscious after a while, so I take the witch's hat off. That's my move. That's my power move.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_02] My Halloween tradition is that every year on Halloween, I get up the same time I get up every other day, and then I just dress normally.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah.

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_02] That's my tradition.

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_00] Pretty smashing. I will say, you know, what I... Can I tell them my candy corn story? I may have said this before to people, but this is something I tried to do for a Halloween treat for you one year, and it backfired in my face. Turned into a whole saga. So, Kevin loves this special type of candy corn that Brax used to have. Actually, there's a murder missing persons case around that company.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_02] You all have Brax. Is it Brax?

[00:03:45] [SPEAKER_00] Brax? I don't know. I didn't grow up with this stuff.

[00:03:48] [SPEAKER_02] Brax, to me, sounds like an alien.

[00:03:51] [SPEAKER_00] Brax. Brax. So, Brax, candy, and... And thank you for correcting me on that, honestly, because we would have gotten so many emails, I feel. People would have been like, are you kidding me? But they had this...

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_02] Isn't it interesting that I don't remember your name, and you don't remember how to pronounce candy?

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah.

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_02] That tells you what's, like, important to each of us.

[00:04:10] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. You're important to me, and candy's important to you.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_02] No, your name is important to you, and candy's important to me. Those are the things we make a point to pronounce correctly.

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_00] So, this is... So, they had this all-natural type of candy corn that you could have, because it didn't have any Red 40 in it, and you liked it better. And then, like, that year, it wasn't in any of the stores in Brooklyn. So, I literally started calling around to, like, company representatives and being like, where is this? And they kind of, like... I feel like they kind of jerked me around a bit. But this turned into this whole saga where I kept on being like, where's the candy? And they were like, oh, look on our store map finder. Yeah, it's not there.

[00:04:47] [SPEAKER_00] And, you know, finally, they were like, yeah, we kind of discontinued it lightly. And I was like, okay, fine. Should have just said that in the first place. But I went on this whole, like... I went on this whole, like, detective noir quest to find this special type of candy corn for you, and you don't even remember my name.

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_02] I remember your name, Anya. Just relax.

[00:05:05] [SPEAKER_00] No! Also, I'm sorry, but, like, I'm too awkward to correct people when they're calling me Anya in person. I just can't do it. Get overloaded. But, like, please, it's Anya. Some of you Southerners, I'm just saying, it's Anya, not Anya. Okay? I'm just... I got... I got to air the grievances with everyone right now.

[00:05:27] [SPEAKER_02] Well, it's people, when they see you, they get very, very excited. It's like, Anya! Hey! So, I think you should be flattered.

[00:05:38] [SPEAKER_00] Oh, there you go. But, yeah, that's... It doesn't really bother me, but sometimes I just feel like... Because then it's usually awkward because then someone else calls me Anya, and they're like, wait, is that how it's pronounced? Why didn't you tell me? It's like, because I can't... I'm just paralyzed by awkwardness.

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_02] One thing you've told me that does bother you, and that I can truthfully say often reduces you to a teary mess, is not enough people are coming to Patreon and our premium. What? We want more people.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_00] What? That was such a weird...

[00:06:09] [SPEAKER_02] I'm doing my best over here.

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_00] Fighting for your life over there, apparently.

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_02] We've got plenty of people. We want more.

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_00] This makes it sound really like no one's there, and that makes people want to join less.

[00:06:21] [SPEAKER_02] I was just trying to transition.

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_00] Come to our party. We have five people there.

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_02] No, we have a healthy community, but we just like more people to come to the party. And what is this premium party you speak of, Anya?

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_00] Why does you speak of it?

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_02] Ad-free episodes, extra episodes, early episodes. You can do it via Patreon or Apple.

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_00] If you do Apple, you're going to get these, you know, audio of our lives. And then if you're on Patreon, you can actually comment on the lives, and you can watch Nick and Nora, well, mostly Nick attack us live. So that's fun for everybody. And it's really fun. It's a really good community.

[00:07:00] [SPEAKER_02] It's a healthy, thriving community. But the only thing that could make it better would be if you, dear listener, joined us.

[00:07:07] [SPEAKER_00] That's a good pitch. So shall we move on to the... What are we talking about? We didn't even do the content warning. I thought we did. No, we didn't. You interjected with your japes before I could get a word out.

[00:07:23] [SPEAKER_02] Okay, Anya. Do the content warning.

[00:07:25] [SPEAKER_00] What are you, Alan Pruitt all of a sudden? Jeez. So content warning. Murder and violence, including the murder of children. So there's going to be some heavy cases in this one. And I think most of them are pretty heavy. Sometimes we do like a lighter case at the end, but I think most of these are heavy. But anyways.

[00:07:41] [SPEAKER_02] Heavy. What is this? Like 1966? I can dig it, dude. It's pretty heavy, though.

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_00] Oh, my gosh. I'm just getting roasted left and right by a man who doesn't know who I am anymore.

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_02] Just get on with it, Ayn.

[00:07:56] [SPEAKER_00] My name is Anya Kane. I'm a journalist.

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_02] And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney. And this is The Murder Sheet. We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases. We're The Murder Sheet.

[00:08:11] [SPEAKER_00] And this is The Cheat Sheet. Cheese steaks and changelings.

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_02] Story out of Utah. And my source for this is WLWT.com. Ted Bundy, of course, the well-known serial killer who was executed all the way back in 1989. He's been linked via DNA testing to yet another murder. This is the murder of 17-year-old Melissa Ann Smith back in 1974.

[00:09:23] [SPEAKER_02] The sheriff of Salt Lake County said that this case demonstrates the importance of preserving evidence because, obviously, if you don't preserve the evidence, you don't have the DNA that can lead to breakthroughs such as this. And Bundy, of course, we're still not sure how many people he killed. And I'm sure there will continue to be other cases that are linked to him and will be linked to him in the months and years to come.

[00:09:50] [SPEAKER_02] And I wanted to talk about this over and above this latest tragedy that he is linked to. I think for a lot of us, certainly those of us of a certain age, the Ted Bundy case is probably one of the earliest true crime cases we became aware of.

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_02] And I think a lot of people have in their mind the image of Ted Bundy or what we imagine a Ted Bundy type to be like as the typical serial killer. And I think to some degree this comes from books by people like Ann Ruhle and also television adaptations. The Ted Bundy case was told, for instance, in an NBC miniseries called The Deliberate Stranger starring Mark Harmon.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_02] And I think the image a lot of people have of him is that he was this handsome, charming man with a secret. And he would he'd go up and he'd charm these women and and ladies be careful of these charming men. And there was like some sort of forbidden air about him. And as you say, first of all, he's not he's not good looking.

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_00] I don't think so.

[00:11:07] [SPEAKER_02] That is the perception some people have.

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_00] I mean, like he like some serial killers are like, yeah, you look like a serial killer. I mean, he just looks like a guy. But I wouldn't say.

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_02] But I think over and above that, if you want to know the truth about him, I think you need to read more recent books, especially books by a guy named Kevin Sullivan.

[00:11:27] [SPEAKER_00] Oh, the Brotherhood of the Kevins.

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_02] He really gets to the truth of this man and some of the sordid and disgusting things he did to these women, including stuff he did to their bodies after they were deceased. That he's not the least bit charming. He's just a monster.

[00:11:50] [SPEAKER_00] Just disgusting.

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_02] And it's sometimes it's hard for me to understand why these myths grow, why it's important for people to view him as being somehow better than he was. Maybe in some people's mind, it becomes more of a tragedy if you think, oh, he's just a smart man. But he had this flaw. You know, he was just a monster. He was just a monster.

[00:12:12] [SPEAKER_00] And yeah, I think it's more of an exciting media thing if it's like this guy seems like he has it all. He's Mr. Right. Oh, but he's killing people. But they don't tell you exactly how gruesome it was. And I think that's not a knock on and rule, really, or even the NBC series. I thought the deliberate stranger from 1986 with Mark Harmon was actually pretty well done. And it's more that those earlier works don't necessarily just get into what he was doing.

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_00] Like, I'm just going to be graphic here for a minute. Raping corpses. OK, you know, you can't really have a cute little Internet serial killer boyfriend and then also have that in your mind. You know, and so when his violence is almost shrouded in mystery, ooh, he's spiriting them away and they're disappearing. What happened? But then when you know what's happening, then it's a lot less, you know, I've seen people like there's like Ted Bundy fandoms.

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_00] You know, there's like people who are, you know, like attracted to him and I feel bad for them. I think I think that's a sickness. But I think in general, I think there's been Ted Bundy fatigue at times. I remember when there was like another project announced people were kind of like, oh, come on, can we get something, you know, can we get something else? I think he's an interesting case. And I've come from going on that side to being more like, actually, I do think it's important to understand him.

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_00] But I think it's important to understand just what a disgusting creature he was and not this kind of like he was cute. You know, I mean.

[00:13:46] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, the detail that you mentioned about his abuse of the dead bodies. I think that is an important detail that illustrates who this man was. But I think it's a detail that for the realities of network television in the 1980s and for the realities of a lot of media coverage in the 1980s, that wasn't the sort of detail that was going to get out there.

[00:14:09] [SPEAKER_02] And by omitting that detail, I think it made Bundy seem more interesting to some people than he really was. And also The Deliberate Stranger was a pretty well done program when you consider especially the limits of network television.

[00:14:25] [SPEAKER_02] I think a lot of people, when they think of Bundy and think of him as this charming, handsome man, I think to some degree they are recalling, perhaps even unconsciously, the portrayal of him in that program where he was portrayed by the actor Mark Harmon.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_00] Who is charming and handsome. Yes. But I would also say, you know, and also with Ann Rule's coverage, I think it's important to remember, she knew the man. He was her friend. And so she's looking at him from this positive, you know, the whole story is an interesting one because she's going from this positive view of like, this guy seems really nice to, oh my gosh, this is who he really is.

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_00] So, you know, I think that's a very interesting story because she has that personal connection and that makes it a really iconic story that she was able to capture. But it's just more like that's her personal story as the general public. I think we could definitely, you know, and I think honestly, I do think people increasingly in true crime are getting that.

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_00] I don't, I think that it's shifted a lot on Ted Bundy, I feel, even in recent years where people are just like, you know, and certainly his name is kind of the catch all serial killer, at least in the United States, where it's like, oh, well, you know, like the thing I hear a lot when people are describing a killer is like, well, he's not Ted Bundy. You know, kind of meaning like that's the worst you can be because that guy was just a consummate predator.

[00:15:53] [SPEAKER_02] And not to throw shade on Anne Rule, but I tend to think if you want to get the truth about someone, you need to go to a source that has some distance and perspective. And I don't know how close she was with him, but she was certainly friendly with him. And in her book, she's emphasizing, oh, he saved lives because he worked on a suicide hotline. I think you need a little bit more perspective and you can take things into consideration.

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_02] Well, he did work on the suicide hotline, but look at all these other things.

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_00] That wasn't all.

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, I think you need a more detached perspective. And the people who are best qualified to give a final judgment about a person may not be the people who were ever friends with that person. That's why if you are interested in Ted Bundy, I think the best source, in my opinion, that I have found are these books by Kevin Sullivan. He's written several of them.

[00:16:52] [SPEAKER_02] And I admittedly have not read all of his books on Bundy, but each one I have read has a lot of information and insights that were new to me.

[00:17:02] [SPEAKER_00] Absolutely.

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_02] Did you have anything else you wanted to say about Mr. Bundy?

[00:17:07] [SPEAKER_00] Burn in hell. That's what I would say. I'm glad that they solved this case. It's awful. Like the 17-year-old just starting in life, just snatched away for no reason.

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_02] And I'll say, maybe those of you who are closer to my age than to Anya's age might also remember, back in the 80s, it was almost like a golden age of TV miniseries about true crime. Because you had The Deliberate Stranger, which was the Ted Bundy one. Another excellent one, which I think you can probably find on YouTube, is Fatal Vision, which is the story of the Jeffrey McDonald case.

[00:17:46] [SPEAKER_00] Guys, that one is so freaking good. But I thought that one, I thought both, you introduced me to both of them. I think, you know, it's really, it's terrific. I would strongly recommend that miniseries as well. And I think Gary Cole plays Jeffrey McDonald. Yes.

[00:18:08] [SPEAKER_02] Who, correct me if I'm wrong, he went on to play Mr. Brady in the Brady Bunch movies. And you, of course, probably know him best, is the lead on the show Midnight Caller.

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_00] Oh.

[00:18:19] [SPEAKER_02] And of course, he was also a regular on Veep. And that might exhaust my well of Gary Cole knowledge.

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_00] I think he played Harvey Birdman, attorney at law.

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_02] So it sounds like you are the true Gary Cole fan.

[00:18:33] [SPEAKER_00] The Cole head.

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_02] You're the Cole head.

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_00] So shall we move on to Indiana?

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, unless there's more we wanted to say about Gary Cole.

[00:18:41] [SPEAKER_00] Is there? I know he was on Veep.

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_02] What about Midnight Caller?

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_00] Oh, and he was in Office Space. But he's really, I think he did a really good job as Jeffrey McDonald. I thought everyone did an admirable. I mean, listen, I'm not always the biggest fan of docudramas. But I actually thought those two by NBC, like you think, I kind of came into them thinking like, oh, they're not going to be very good. But like, they were pretty, I feel like they were pretty like close to the facts. And I appreciate that. That's more than I can say about a lot of things nowadays. So shall we jump?

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_02] And Fatal Vision, by the way, is a great book. And there's lots of wrinkles to the story of Fatal Vision. And I wish, Anya, I wish some podcast would take the time to do an episode exploring that book and some of the criticism it has received over the years and whether or not that criticism is valid. I wish some podcast would do that. But I digress.

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_00] My joke is I'm going to get shirts printed saying Joe McGinnis did nothing wrong. Also, Joe McGinnis did nothing wrong. Also, I love him. Also, now that we went through writing a book about a controversial case where there's a strong innocence conspiracy contingent. I guess I'll just say this. We didn't go through exactly that. We certainly didn't embed.

[00:20:07] [SPEAKER_02] Should we, since we're talking about this, should we explain what the criticism is of Mr. McGinnis for people who have no idea what we're talking about? Sure.

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_00] So McGinnis was a journalist. He was basically, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, Kevin. I'm really summarizing and it's been a while.

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_02] He's the author of the book, Fatal Vision.

[00:20:21] [SPEAKER_00] The author of the book, Fatal Vision, which is excellent. You should go read it. He was basically offered a chance to embed with the defense team on McDonald's case. And, you know, they were the dream team. They were going to win. They were going to make all these prosecutors look stupid. McDonald's an American hero. He was a Green Beret. He was a physician, a golden boy of America. And the hippies were trying to kill his family. And then they did. And they framed him. And there's going to be this big story. So they pitched him on that and they brought him in.

[00:20:50] [SPEAKER_02] And he comes in and he realizes.

[00:20:52] [SPEAKER_00] This guy's guilty.

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_02] Golly, this guy's guilty. And so then he writes a book, which honestly explains his views of the case. And this upsets McDonald. And then years later, a woman named Janet Malcolm wrote a book criticizing McGinnis.

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_00] Not only McGinnis, but all of journalism. The journalist and the murderer sucks, by the way. I just want to. I mean, like that's like something you're not supposed to say in journalism. But I think people have taken the absolute wrong. I think that it's pseudo-intellectual drivel.

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_02] And as you can, maybe those of you who are really good at reading between the lines can pick up that Anya has some pretty strong feelings about this.

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_00] Listen, I'm not even. OK, I don't. I mean, listen, I think McGinnis. I don't think she's fair to him at all. I think it was a hit piece for reasons that I'm sure we'll get into at some point in the future. But what my problem with Malcolm is, she basically makes out journalism as a whole to be some sort of, you know, unethical morass.

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_02] And maybe, who knows, maybe some podcast will give you the chance to go into your feelings about it in depth.

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_00] Yes. That's going to be a salty episode, but I'm excited.

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_02] By whichever podcast does it.

[00:22:05] [SPEAKER_00] Yes, I'm sure it would be.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_02] I don't know which podcast that would be.

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_00] Who knows what it would be.

[00:22:09] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. Maybe True Crime Swine.

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_00] Sorry for all the Malcolm heads who are mad at me right now, but I just I don't. I think that's something that like it's pushed on young journalists.

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_02] We'll get more into that later. In theory, if we can find a podcast that would give you the chance to do that. But for now, should we move on to your first case of the evening? Certainly. I say evening. But of course, the beauty of the podcast form is maybe you are like sipping sherry by the fire in an evening. Maybe you're having breakfast. You can listen to this anytime you want. Brunch, perhaps. Perhaps.

[00:22:41] [SPEAKER_00] So my.

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_02] Maybe a late lunch.

[00:22:44] Okay.

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_00] My case goes back to April 9th, 2010, when Jeffrey Weishite murdered two children he was caring for at the time. Their names were Alyssa and Caleb Lynch. And he was in a romantic relationship with their mother, Lisa Lynch, who was also apparently pregnant with his child at the time. And what he did was he tied up Caleb.

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_00] I believe he hogtied this child and then set off fireworks in the home and it burned down killing both children. So the reason, you know, that is the reason this man is on death row today. He was convicted of that crime and sentenced to death. It's a really heinous, heinous crime. And we've covered it in the past on the cheat sheet. He is facing execution on November 5th.

[00:23:34] [SPEAKER_00] That is when he is scheduled to be executed at the Indiana State Prison in Michigan City, Indiana. He's 50 years old.

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_00] Life without parole instead of death. And the board subsequently got together. They had a meeting with Weishite at the Indiana State Prison on October 16th, 2026. They did some public hearings on October 19th, 2026, where people who want him dead and don't want him dead got, you know, time to speak on what they wanted. And they reviewed basically the following legal proceedings.

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_00] The Department of Correction records, a community investigation report conducted by Parole District 4 in Evansville. Evaluations of Weishite testimony and constituent letters for and against clemency. And they have unanimously recommended that Braun deny clemency. So what are they basing that on?

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_00] They say they're basing that on the nature and circumstances of what he did, his criminal history, his history of institutional conduct, meaning is he well behaved in prison? And the interests of society. So. This is what they talk about. The murders. They talk about his relationship with the children's mother was troubled. This is from a letter from the board from October, I believe, 28th.

[00:25:33] [SPEAKER_00] So the commission said that they talked to Weishite and, quote, during his interview, Mr. Weishite admitted to wanting to hurt Lisa, mother of Alyssa and Caleb. He wanted to hurt her because he was angry with her about various issues in their relationship and was unable to hurt her at the time because she was carrying his child. Mr. Weishite describes obsessing over a particular perceived slight by Lisa for approximately a month leading up to the fire.

[00:25:59] [SPEAKER_00] During this time period, it appears his anger grew and he engaged in at least some level of planning, including emptying bank accounts, quitting his job and attempting to return Lisa's engagement ring. Whether or not this particular violent act is what he was preparing for in the weeks leading up to the fire, we cannot know. However, we do believe the evidence shows there was a plan to do harm in place and we cannot accept the assertions made by those close to Weishite that he simply snapped and was completely outside of his own character. OK, so, yeah, that all does sound like he did not snap.

[00:26:28] [SPEAKER_00] And this was kind of brewing for a while, which means at any time in that he could have said, well, I'm not going to do this. But he chose to anyway. They also talked about how he's been ever shifting in his story here. So, quote, through the pendency of this case, Jeffrey Weishite has taken various levels of responsibility for his actions during the early hours of the investigation. When Jeffrey was interviewed by law enforcement in the hospital, he was asked, did you do something to the kids? And Jeffrey responded, I don't remember.

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_00] During the trial, Jeffrey elected to testify in his defense. At that time, he admitted to tying Caleb up, but did not admit to setting the fire. When asked about the fire during his trial testimony, he responded with things happen. Finally, when speaking with this commission during his clemency interview, Jeffrey Weishite does admit to setting the fire, but disputes the manner in which he set the fire. The theory presented to and accepted by the jury at trial was that the fire was started by putting a flare in Caleb's underwear and one flare under his body.

[00:27:25] [SPEAKER_00] The testimony of investigators and skilled witnesses support this theory. Jeffrey Weishite vehemently denies any use of the flares in starting the fires. Instead, he puts forth as his recollection that the fire was started by placing a phone book on the stove and turning it on before fleeing the house. The commission does not accept this theory, but does not opine on whether Jeffrey Weishite is being deceitful or whether he has truly lost his memory of his actions regarding the flares as put forth by his counsel. End quote.

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_00] So this guy basically refuses to take any sort of responsibility for what was clearly evidence at trial testified to by experts. So he's still lying, in other words, as far as I'm concerned. They're saying maybe he forgot, but it seems a little bit convenient. They talked about how he has a he came into this with a relatively like not minor criminal history.

[00:28:15] [SPEAKER_00] Like in 1994, he had a charge of carrying a weapon in Iowa and got two years probation. That was September 21st, 1994. A theft conviction in Indiana on March 21st, 1994 and got two years of probation.

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_00] So, you know, apparently when he was a juvenile, he ended up doing crimes and got sent to a boys school and seemed to be relatively law abiding after that with those two blemishes. Notwithstanding. But while he's been in prison, he has a number of conduct reports, 13 in total, most recently in May of 2025. Battery on other people, disruptive behavior and animal cruelty.

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_00] I don't even know how that happens in prison, but apparently he managed to do it. You know, he's they said, well, he's taken advantage of spiritual services based on the account of his spiritual advisor, Deacon Brian Nosebush. Sorry if I'm saying his name wrong. But. You know, there was stuff about how he might be mentally ill or neurologically deficient in some ways. I'm not certain what exactly that means. Childhood trauma.

[00:29:34] [SPEAKER_00] But, you know. At the same time, they note that his family seems very loving and accepting of him at the public hearing. So, OK. And. Yeah. They looked at whether the fact finders in the case, quote, were given sufficient information to come to the decision they reached to impose the death penalty. And we believe they did have sufficient sufficient information. So I guess one thing. What do you think about all that?

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_02] I think they probably made the right decision.

[00:30:04] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, I think so, too. Yeah. This guy is just, I mean, a waste of a person. I don't even really necessarily think I fully support the death penalty. But, like, if anyone's going to get it, someone who ties up a kid and leaves them to burn to death in their own house because they have some petty grievance against their mother deserves to die.

[00:30:23] [SPEAKER_02] Well, I can tell you flatly I don't support the death penalty. I'm not a death penalty guy. But you have to separate your feelings about the death penalty in a situation like this. Because the question isn't whether or not do we need to have a death penalty? That's not the question. The question is, was the death penalty, which is the law, is it being applied appropriately here? And if the death penalty exists, it seems to have been applied fairly here.

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_00] I think so, too. And the fact that this guy can't even, like, I mean, I just, that's not, that's not anything close to. I mean, I just, like, I don't remember and all this stuff. Like, I just, the most self-serving nonsense. Can I also just say, I'm sorry, I'm a religious person. Don't get mad at me because I am religious. But, like, why do I care that he's, you can be an ethical atheist. You can be an ethical agnostic. I don't care what religion you are.

[00:31:18] [SPEAKER_00] Why does it matter that he's making spiritual progress? Like, that shouldn't, like, this seems weird. Like, kind of like separation of church and state. Like, why, like, what if it was, like, I'm making progress as an atheist. Like, like, I just find that so weird that we, like, make a big deal of, like, oh, he found God in prison. Great. As a religious person, I love that. Great for you on your journey. Why on earth should that be considered by a governmental body decreeing whether or not a man should die?

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_00] That just makes me deeply uncomfortable. Do you know what I'm saying? If they were like, oh, he's doing community service and working with others and it has a religious bend, fine. Because then he's trying to help other people. But why on earth should we care about him making, taking advantage of spiritual services? You know? I'm sure the Borgias went to confession. You know, that doesn't mean they weren't bad. Like, I don't know. I just, like, I see that a lot.

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_00] I see that a lot with, like, these clemency things. And I just find it, again, like, and I'm religious. So I'm, like, I can relate. And I want people to go on whatever religious experience or whatever that they, that would, you know, would bring them closer to God and be a better person. I'm not saying I don't like that. But sometimes it just gets couched as, oh, they've become religious. And to me, that's not enough. That doesn't really, it's not really here nor there.

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_00] People can use religion for all sorts of selfish reasons. You know, I just, it can be very self-serving. So I guess, I don't know. Maybe I'm, maybe, maybe I'm just too jaded. I don't know. But yeah, I kind of feel like I, I don't, I don't know. I mean, I, I, on some level I get the 10th penalty. On some level I think it's kind of irreversibly broken. And I just don't really, in many cases, don't really think it is necessarily the right thing to do.

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_00] But like, I can't shed any tears over this guy getting it, you know, after what he did to those kids. So that's my thinking. So now I think we're going to Florida.

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_02] Weren't you telling me that you consider Florida to be the sunshine state?

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_00] So you're acting like I'm taking credit for it being called that?

[00:33:30] [SPEAKER_02] Well, you were to me. No, I wasn't. You said, Kevin.

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_00] This is just a lie.

[00:33:35] [SPEAKER_02] Kevin on the program, be sure to give me credit for that nickname. Because as you indicated, this is all scripted. You know exactly what I'm going to say before I say it. Wow. You wrote it yourself.

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_00] See, I really hoisted myself on that one.

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_02] Whatever I say.

[00:33:50] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. Now it's going to be described to you. The stupid stuff you say is going to be on my head. I really did not think that through.

[00:33:55] [SPEAKER_02] People are going to be thinking like you've been playing like 3D chess because I say all these things about how great you look in hats.

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_00] Oh, my gosh.

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_02] Now people are going to think that you want me to be talking about how good you look in hats because you're vain.

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_00] Oh, gosh. This is like you can see everything. Now suddenly the truth is like no one knows what the truth is. And they're looking through this from a new lens.

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_02] Well, you blew it.

[00:34:13] [SPEAKER_00] I blew it. I really did. I'm not going to. Listen, that's an L on me. You know, I did not think that through at all.

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_02] No. You look the fool.

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. Whatever. Move on. Go to Florida.

[00:34:31] [SPEAKER_02] Sources for this. Cleveland dot com. I'm not sure. I'm not sure if that happened.

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_00] I'm sorry. I don't mean to laugh. But what? Ohio. Ohio's taking over everything. Run. It's like, have you seen that Incredibles meme where like he hits it and like the map turns into like all Ohio. That's what's happening. Run, everybody. No, I'm just kidding. Love you, Ohio. Ohio.

[00:34:56] [SPEAKER_02] And then Tampa Bay dot com, which makes more sense. I'm going to talk about a couple of things about this case. So this is a case of a man named Robert Kessler, who is charged with killing a woman named Stephanie Krohn-Overholtz. 47 year old woman. He is charged with not only killing her, but dismembering her.

[00:35:19] [SPEAKER_02] The crime is discovered when I think some fishermen saw a severed leg floating in the water. Very serious crime. There have been concerns that this man, Mr. Kessler was not mentally fit to stand trial. But now they say, oh, yeah, he's definitely mentally fit. Let's go on with this. And he says, you know, judge, you know, not only am I mentally fit, I want to be my own lawyer. Always, always a great idea.

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_02] So he's his own lawyer. And at some point during jury selection, he says, judge, judge, I've got an idea to save the taxpayers. I'll just plead guilty. But there's a catch. I will only do it if you get me a cheesesteak, fries and a soda. And the judge says, no. He said the quote that trading food for a guilty plea would be wrong in a thousand ways. And it would be.

[00:36:18] [SPEAKER_02] That's not going to look good in the appellate record. It's not going to make any sense whatsoever. And so that was turned down. And first of all, I wanted to highlight that because I saw some people online were treating this as if it was like kind of funny. And it's not because, first of all, quite literally a woman died. People care about her. It's not it's not a funny thing.

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_02] And secondly, if one of the concerns is whether or not this man was mentally fit, this doesn't seem like something a mentally fit man would do.

[00:36:52] [SPEAKER_00] No. Yeah. Either someone who's faking being mentally unfit or who's genuinely mentally unfit.

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_02] What do you mean?

[00:37:00] [SPEAKER_00] Like it's either he's faking being mentally unfit. Like this like he's saying this to sound crazy or he is mentally unwell.

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_02] So, yeah. So I have some concerns about his mental fitness. And I feel bad for obviously the people who care about this victim. Being put through this when potentially this guy isn't even mentally fit for the trial. He then says, OK, yeah, you know, maybe maybe I do need a lawyer. Let's bring Gloria back to represent me. But, you know, I don't want to be here.

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_02] I don't want to be in the room when the trial is happening. And the judge says, quote, it is a bad decision to do that. It doesn't look good. I'm just going to be straight with you. I think that's a really, really bad choice. End quote. But he he insisted. And so now he's being represented by an attorney. And I guess he's not present.

[00:37:58] [SPEAKER_02] And the jurors, one of the jurors, like said, asked a question of the judge saying, you know, he was representing himself yesterday. Now he's not. What's going on? So, yeah, I have some concerns about this guy's mental fitness. And I just wanted to mention that because I saw some people talking about it rather lightly. Before I move on to something else I want to say about this case. Do you have anything comments, Miss Kane?

[00:38:25] [SPEAKER_00] You know, I think it's I think this stuff is tough for people because I think there's a perception and I don't know the reality of this. So I don't. I don't fully understand it myself always. But I think there's the perception that someone just being put in a mental asylum or, you know, a psychiatric hospital permanently or for an extended period of time because they're essentially mentally ill and did something really bad.

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_00] You know, I think some people have the perception that, like, if that happens, they're going to be let out very quickly. And it seems like in some cases that is kind of true. Like I think of that Kentucky case where that guy brutally murdered like a little kid breaking into people's houses and he got out. But then you see other cases where someone's kind of in forever.

[00:39:10] [SPEAKER_00] And I don't know if it depends on the mechanics of, you know, what happened, whether they're not reason not guilty by reason of insanity or guilty but mentally ill or or like convicted versus. I just don't know. I don't I don't know what all of that is. I just think people are very upset by this because they've seen cases where people have gotten out super early.

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_00] And I think, you know, I can understand that, too, because it's like there's a public safety risk at a certain point, because if someone really if someone's like after their ex-wife. They're not necessarily a threat to everybody. They can be, but they're not necessarily. But if someone just thinks the demons are running amok and they have to stop them so they don't take over their head and put a computer chip in there, then like that could be dangerous for people.

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_00] And a lot of people who have those kind of psychosis, psychotic issues, that's a symptom. You know, they they're not violent. They they're dealing with that, but they're not violent and they're not violent with others. And they're just, you know, they're dealing. They have this and it's it's affecting their lives. They might be victimized, in fact, because of it, but they're not violent. But the ones who are, it's like, how do you control that? Because they can't help it. You know, they they're just they're just doing stuff. And, you know, I don't know.

[00:40:27] [SPEAKER_00] And it's hard to force people to do treatment and maintain the treatment consistently. So it's a really tough issue. But I hope that if if he is determined to be mentally ill, that they really proceed with caution. You don't want someone getting convicted. I don't know. It's just it's really complicated.

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_02] It's really, really complicated. And so before we move on, before I hand you the baton for you to take it triumphantly to the finish line with your masterful discussion of another case. Keep in mind, Anya wrote this. I want to say something else about this case. And I want to talk about something that Prosecutor Scott Harmon said in his opening statement.

[00:41:09] [SPEAKER_02] And I'm curious about your your take on this, because it could be a thing where, Kevin, you're being overly sensitive. This is fine. It could be a situation where the prosecutor said something and maybe it's something that sounded really great in his head and just didn't come out the right way.

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_00] We've all been there.

[00:41:24] [SPEAKER_02] Or it could be something that's a little bit tasteless. I think it's a little bit tasteless, but it could be I'm just overreacting. I've been known to overreact. And again, so sensitive Anya is writing. That's what I'm saying. Of course. Keep in mind that a detail of this case is that the murdered woman's severed leg was found floating in the water.

[00:41:47] [SPEAKER_02] The Mr. Harmon in his opening statement said, well, the only thing that's going to be floating at the end of this trial is going to be the defendant. And he's going to be floating at an absolute sea that stinks and reeks of his absolute murderous guilt. Is that a little tasteless?

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_00] I don't know. I see what he's going for.

[00:42:08] [SPEAKER_02] I see what maybe it sounded great in his head. I don't think it sounded good.

[00:42:13] [SPEAKER_00] I don't know. I like, listen, I don't hate it. Like, I don't like I see I see your objection. I see your objection that to me, that doesn't feel like he was trying to be offensive. I think intent goes a long way with me here.

[00:42:29] [SPEAKER_02] I don't think he was trying to be offensive. I think it arguably reads as offensive. I think maybe it just sounded bad. I don't know.

[00:42:35] [SPEAKER_00] Like, I think, like, you know, when when you're doing an opening statement, you're trying to paint a picture, you're trying to tell a story. And they love, you know, the prosecutors love it's like they did this in the Faith Hedgepeth case. It's like tune out the noise. It's all noise. Like, listen for the signal. You know, like they got a metaphor and they're going to friggin stick with it.

[00:42:54] [SPEAKER_00] You know, I remember like, you know, like I remember when I was talking with Karen Sartain, a wonderful defense attorney and judge in New York, and she was talking about like, oh, you know, like basically like they want you to do like a road map. But like make sure you don't use the word road map. And so everyone's trying to find something. If he's kind of like picturing this case as a sea of blood and I see it.

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_00] I just see it as like he's trying to do a metaphor. It doesn't bother me as much as it does you.

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, I don't like it.

[00:43:30] [SPEAKER_00] I say, Mr. Harmon, go for it. Honestly, I don't I maybe again, maybe I'm just being jaded. I it doesn't I don't think it's meant to be insensitive towards the victim. I think it's just meant to. I think it's meant to I think it's meant to capture the gruesomeness of what this man did. And I think that's fair to point out.

[00:43:49] [SPEAKER_02] Sounds like something Jack Webb would say.

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_00] Maybe that's why I love it.

[00:43:53] [SPEAKER_02] No, I'm just I very much like Jack Webb and so many. Well, how so?

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_00] Why don't you explain that? And let's see. Let's see what you say.

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_02] Let's see how offended I get people who aren't familiar with Jack Webb. He was the creator, the creative force behind the series Dragnet, which was a police procedural, which had a very humorless detective named Joe Friday played by Jack Webb.

[00:44:19] [SPEAKER_00] You basically see me as Joe Friday. Is that what you're saying?

[00:44:22] [SPEAKER_02] And especially when the show came back in the in the 60s, a lot of it seemed to be he would encounter people who disappointed him in some way. And he would suddenly let loose with a lengthy podcast ready speech, just tearing them apart. And he would often use colorful language saying something like floating in an absolute sea that stinks and reeks of your absolute murderous guilt.

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_02] I could imagine Joe Friday saying something like that. So that to me is who Jack Webb is.

[00:44:56] [SPEAKER_00] And so that's what you see me as.

[00:44:58] [SPEAKER_02] I didn't necessarily say that.

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_00] I thought you did.

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_02] I don't remember what I said.

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_00] Read your script.

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_02] But see, the thing is, if I did say that, you can't be mad at me because you wrote it.

[00:45:10] [SPEAKER_00] I mean, like, guys, fellas, fellas, if you want to make your wife happy, don't compare her to Joe Friday. Just a tip. Are you saying, am I going to go around and just start fighting with hippies everywhere? Am I going to go debate a hippie? Is that what you want from me? Is that how you see me?

[00:45:26] [SPEAKER_02] Yes.

[00:45:27] [SPEAKER_00] Well, then you're Gannon because you're just messing around and doing stupid jokes and just making a sandwich and then just being too much. So that's you.

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_02] And what you've just done is you've abandoned sense because people don't even know who Gannon is. He was Joe Friday's partner.

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_00] I think people probably watch Dragnet. I don't know. I'm a millennial and I watch Dragnet.

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_02] And he would often have very specific tastes in food. Yeah. Kind of a classic.

[00:45:54] [SPEAKER_00] To the annoyance of everyone. To the annoyance of everyone.

[00:45:58] [SPEAKER_02] A little bit older, kind of distinguished.

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_00] No.

[00:46:01] [SPEAKER_02] Very, very handsome.

[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_00] Bumbling. Just always, oh, I think the, shut up. Someone got murdered.

[00:46:11] [SPEAKER_02] But we digress. I'm handing the baton to the beautiful and talented Ayn Cain.

[00:46:23] [SPEAKER_01] You're so annoying. Okay.

[00:46:27] [SPEAKER_00] You wrote the script? Apparently. I really, I really. Signs of really low self-esteem and self-loathing if I wrote this script. Then Kevin will compare me to Joe Friday. So I, this case is wild. Our wonderful moderator on our Facebook group, Elle, who is a queen and we love her, actually sent me this and I was like, are you kidding me?

[00:46:53] [SPEAKER_00] This is the story of the disappearance of Shana Feynman who went missing near Seligman, Arizona. Sorry if I'm saying that wrong. It's kind of a rural area where she went missing. And this was all the way back on March 9th, 2024. So they find her car along with her wallet, cell phone. They find all of that, but they don't find her. They still haven't found her. And two men got charged.

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_00] Her boyfriend, Cavett Richards, and in addition to William Dalcaro. And they were, so she had been staying with Richards on Dalcaro's property. And they, they charged them in August, 2024. And they ultimately dropped those charges.

[00:47:50] [SPEAKER_00] So, you know, the story was she had walked to a nearby friend's home and she never got there. And somebody, you know, her neighbor went looking for her, saw the vehicle, saw the wallet inside. And her, her family gets concerned as well. And there was sort of, there was a nine day though gap between when she went missing and when it was ultimately reported. Detectives find her cell phone.

[00:48:19] [SPEAKER_00] And, you know, they, they arrest this Richards and Dalcaro duo. They arrest them for weapons violations, tampering and possession of a stolen vehicle. And they also then get charged August 28th and 29th with, I think it was August 28th actually, with her charges regarding her murder. So second degree murder, conspiracy and concealment of a dead body.

[00:48:49] [SPEAKER_00] So January, 2025, those are dismissed. Just there were not, there were not, I guess there wasn't enough evidence. But I think Dalcaro at least is still in prison on these weapons charges in, in 2025. So yeah, they're doing, so this is kind of unfortunately just one of those missing persons cases. Didn't get necessarily a lot of national attention, but was certainly very much being looked into in Arizona.

[00:49:16] [SPEAKER_00] And that's, that's where this gets just absolutely bizarre. Because recently, on October 23rd, in Tijuana, Mexico, officials there said they found, they found her. They found Feynman. And she's alive. And they're pretty sure it's her. And they're keeping her safe. And this gets, this blows up all over the news. Everyone's reporting on this.

[00:49:46] [SPEAKER_00] And, you know, there's one problem, though. Her sister, a woman named Kara, comes forward and says, I don't recognize this woman. And people in Arizona, the investigators there are like, yeah, we're not sure that this is her. And again, it's like, what? So, I mean, okay, the thing that this immediately reminded me of was The Impostor. The Impostor was a 2012 documentary.

[00:50:13] [SPEAKER_00] I remember watching it years ago on Netflix. Kevin, have you ever seen The Impostor?

[00:50:20] [SPEAKER_02] No, tell me about it.

[00:50:21] [SPEAKER_00] It is an excellent, excellent true crime documentary. I would recommend others watch it. I mean, listen, I was watching it before I was, like, super critical about true crime. So maybe it's not as good as I remember it. But I remember being, like, gripped and being like, this is totally nuts. So that is the story. So a young boy named Nicholas Barclay was 13 years old, disappeared in 1997.

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_00] A man, a 23-year-old man named Frederick Bourdain is busted on something in Europe. He's a Frenchman. And he's, like, a con artist. And he claims to authorities that he is Nicholas Barclay. And what he's doing is really kind of, like, manipulating people where, like, they're saying, they're giving him some details, like, and then he's kind of repeating them back. And they're like, whoa, it's him, you know.

[00:51:19] [SPEAKER_00] And he's brought back. I mean, he doesn't look anything like him. He has a French accent. He, like, it's totally nuts. But they bring him back to Texas and he lives with Barclay's family for, like, five months. And it's a really twisty, bizarre documentary. And it's very interesting. But, you know, I mean, this kid disappears in 1994. He was 13.

[00:51:49] [SPEAKER_00] So, I mean, Bourdain, again, is pretending to be a 16-year-old. He's, like, he's dark-haired. He's, like, pretending to be, like, this kid was blonde. It doesn't make any sense.

[00:51:57] [SPEAKER_02] Maybe this sort of thing happens more often than we realize. Because my mind immediately went to another case closer to home. Are you familiar with Shannon Sherrill?

[00:52:08] [SPEAKER_00] No. Oh, oh, the little girl. Yes.

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_02] This is a girl who went missing. And quite a number of years afterwards, a woman named Donna Walker contacts the family and says, guess what? I'm your missing daughter, which is very, very cruel. Evil. Yes.

[00:52:28] [SPEAKER_00] An evil person.

[00:52:29] [SPEAKER_02] It was a hoax. And she ended up pleading guilty and got sentenced to 18 months in prison and four years probation.

[00:52:39] [SPEAKER_00] How do you live with yourself for doing something like that?

[00:52:43] [SPEAKER_02] So, yeah, there's a lot of evil in the world.

[00:52:45] [SPEAKER_00] In The Imposter, it's a little bit more, you're kind of like, what is the family doing at some point? You know what I mean? Like, their behavior is pretty odd in that. I'm not going to lie. But the other thing that I think about is the case of Walter Collins. And this movie was made about this called The Changeling. And that was in 2008, directed by Clint Eastwood, starring Angelina Jolie. And it's a true story.

[00:53:15] [SPEAKER_00] Walter, this little boy, he was nine, I think, went missing in 1928 in Los Angeles. And, you know, the police brought back this kid who was really Arthur Hutchins Jr. And like, we found your son. And she's like, this isn't my son. And they're like, basically, I guess we'll destroy your life now and put you in a mental hospital. Because it's definitely your son, even though it wasn't.

[00:53:39] [SPEAKER_00] Unfortunately, her son was very likely a victim of basically the Wineville chicken coop murders. So that was done by Gordon Stewart Northcutt. He was operating in Chicken Ranch. He would abduct, sexually abuse, and murder these little boys with help of his mother, Sarah Louise Northcutt. And, you know, he coerced his nephew, Sanford Clark, to helping him.

[00:54:06] [SPEAKER_00] So, yeah, there's a history of people being like, I'm this missing kid. And like, the families might react differently. Sometimes, like, the families are being duped. Sometimes the families are, like, not duped at all. And then other times, like, the families might have an incentive, at least in some cases, to be like, yeah, I guess you're alive. We don't know anything. But in this case, yeah, it's very sad. So what's happened since is that, as far as the Feynman case, and again, like, I feel so bad for this woman's sister.

[00:54:35] [SPEAKER_00] She's like, just like, she must be just absolutely heartbroken and baffled. But what happened in the Feynman case is that, you know, basically the investigators have gotten involved. And they said that, you know, as far as the United States authorities are concerned, physical evidence establishes that this woman is not Feynman. And that she actually remains very much missing.

[00:55:00] [SPEAKER_00] And, you know, I would just question what the heck is going on in Tijuana that would make them do this without vending it first. I just really like, Tijuana, what are we doing? You know, the Mexican authorities should be utterly embarrassed. This is totally shameful. They didn't need to go to the press. They could have just, I don't know, like done a DNA test or something or worked with Arizona to figure it out. Like, it was just a stupid way to handle this.

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_00] And they should be really embarrassed because I think this kind of thing is very hurtful to Feynman's relatives who presumably, you know, might have gotten their hopes up. And it's just not right. So that's horrible.

[00:55:37] [SPEAKER_00] But I hope that at the very least, if something good comes out of it, that it renews some spotlight on Feynman's case and that perhaps some information can be gleaned from it that can lead them to find her and perhaps, you know, deal with whoever is responsible for her disappearing if it is indeed a crime.

[00:55:59] [SPEAKER_02] Well said. Do you have any final words of wisdom?

[00:56:08] [SPEAKER_00] I do. Oh, are you excited?

[00:56:10] [SPEAKER_02] I am. Because I know anything you say is bound to be magnificent, ma'am.

[00:56:20] [SPEAKER_00] So November 19th, which is a Thursday, from 7 p.m. to 9 p.m. at the Church on Jefferson Events Center in Franklin, Indiana, I will be attending and participating in an event hosted by the Johnson County Public Library. And they'll be having me speak to a wonderful author named Dr. Lindsay Fitzharris about her book, Sleuth Hound. And it's about it's basically the case of the real Sherlock Holmes. It's a really great read.

[00:56:49] [SPEAKER_00] And I think you guys will really like it. And if you're in Johnson County or nearby, I think you get your tickets through your Johnson County Public Library card. And a lot of the people there are going to be getting a copy of the book. It's going to be so fun. Please come. I'd love to see you and would love to celebrate this awesome work by this awesome writer. So I think it's going to be really cool. So that's something to look out for. Coming up later this month, November 19th.

[00:57:17] [SPEAKER_02] Next month.

[00:57:18] [SPEAKER_00] Next month. Yes.

[00:57:20] [SPEAKER_02] Because it's still October because you are you going to. When you do the interview, will you be wearing one of your garish Halloween outfits?

[00:57:31] [SPEAKER_00] No.

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_02] Will you be wearing like a huge hat?

[00:57:35] [SPEAKER_00] No.

[00:57:36] [SPEAKER_02] So you just be acting professionally with the appropriate decorum. So I'm not sure I'll be there. Just the facts, ma'am. I'm not sure I'll be there. Kevin's going to.

[00:57:46] [SPEAKER_00] You're not going to. You're just going to ditch me. You're going to go play hooky in the streets of Franklin.

[00:57:52] [SPEAKER_02] Oh, we'll see. Yeah. Just the facts, ma'am.

[00:57:54] [SPEAKER_00] I feel like. I feel like I'll be like doing all. I'll be doing this. And then people will see like Kevin scampering around outside. Well, the Anya's away. The Kevin's will play.

[00:58:08] [SPEAKER_02] Let's wrap.

[00:58:11] [SPEAKER_00] Oh, now you want to wrap.

[00:58:42] [SPEAKER_00] Thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet. If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www.buymeacoffee.com slash murder sheet. We very much appreciate any support.

[00:58:57] [SPEAKER_02] Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet, and who you can find on the web at kevintg.com.

[00:59:06] [SPEAKER_00] If you're looking to talk with other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening.