The Cheat Sheet: Ghosts and Gunshots

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[00:02:22] latest episodes without the ads. Content warning. This episode includes discussion of murder including

[00:02:31] the murder of a child. We will also be discussing rape and child abuse.

[00:02:36] Hi, everybody. Thanks so much for joining us today for another episode of the cheat sheet.

[00:02:41] This of course is the segment where we talk about different crimes around the country and discuss

[00:02:46] them. So today we'll be covering four entirely new cases. Two are from Midwestern Lake States, Ohio

[00:02:53] and Michigan and the other two are from out west California and Oregon. So without further ado,

[00:03:00] let's get into it. My name is Anya Kane, I'm a journalist and I'm Kevin Greenley. I'm an attorney

[00:03:07] and this is the murder sheet. We're a true crime podcast focused on original reported

[00:03:12] interviews and deep dives into murder cases. We're the murder sheet. And this is the cheat sheet,

[00:03:20] ghosts and gunshots.

[00:04:00] Well, Anya, why don't we start in our neighboring state of Ohio?

[00:04:11] Yes. This takes place in Muskegon County, Ohio, specifically Zanesville. So on August 10th, 2023

[00:04:21] around 130 pm, a 36 year old woman named Deborah Elfrazer called into police. She needed help

[00:04:28] desperately. What was going on? So she showed up at an apartment which she seemingly shared

[00:04:35] potentially with her then boyfriend, um, at the Santeres department on Santeres Drive in Zanesville.

[00:04:41] And she said the doors open inside looks ransacked. I'm scared something's happened. And then suddenly

[00:04:49] she screams tells the dispatcher that there are men inside. There's a gunshot. So obviously

[00:04:58] this sounds horrifying. Yeah, it's horrifying. This is like the worst nightmare a lot of us could have.

[00:05:03] Yes. And imagine what that's like for the dispatcher too, just hearing this like, okay, this is a

[00:05:08] bad situation now this person's actually in danger. So just a horrifying thing. So then she starts,

[00:05:14] she starts crying on the phone so she survived and says that she's been shot. Every officer on

[00:05:21] duty in the Zanesville police department descends upon the Santeres apartments. This is obviously a

[00:05:27] very serious situation. A woman has been shot. It's been some sort of home invasion burglar. It's

[00:05:32] not clear. And one of the officers finds Frazier. She's like sitting in the entrance of her apartment

[00:05:38] and ties a tourniquet on her leg. She's been shot in the leg. She says that she was shot by two

[00:05:43] men who were both, she described as white wearing masks who ran out of the apartment as she was

[00:05:50] kind of there calling police they shoot her on the way out then they run off on foot. So that's her

[00:05:54] accounting of what happened. And what a horrible situation. Also police also note that there is a

[00:06:02] 22 caliber revolver lying next to her. She's sent to Genesis Hospital to treat her wounds

[00:06:08] and inside the situation gets far worse. How so? In a backroom of the apartment police find the

[00:06:16] body of 66 year old Thomas Waddle. Now Thomas was Frazier's boyfriend. They were on again

[00:06:24] off again. Obviously he was significantly older than her but he was known in the community as

[00:06:29] somebody who was always eager to help out those in need and you know so they had their ups and

[00:06:36] downs as a couple but he this was something that their relationship had gone through that kind of

[00:06:44] up and down over time. And he was his body. He'd been he'd been shot to death with a 22 caliber

[00:06:53] and his body was wrapped in a blanket, a garbage bag and duct tape. So that's odd if you're doing

[00:07:00] a home invasion robbery and someone's there and you're surprised and you murdered them. Why would

[00:07:10] you take the time to wrap them up in such a way? Excellent question. Yes, not doesn't really make any

[00:07:18] sense. I think tying someone up or something like that during a home invasion wouldn't be that

[00:07:24] odd so like the duct tape might make sense but the wrapping doesn't make sense unless you argue

[00:07:30] that there was some they were they wanted to dispose of the body elsewhere but they were interrupted

[00:07:35] by misfrasures appearance but other things started to not add up. Well, we've in this day and age

[00:07:44] we're talking about this in other cases too there's so much new scientific developments

[00:07:48] and technology. I think most neighborhoods today have at least some homes that have like cameras

[00:07:56] like doorbell cameras and stuff on their front doors. Were there any cameras or stuff in the

[00:08:01] neighborhood that picked up any signs of intruders? No. In fact, the cameras in the neighborhood

[00:08:08] notably did not pick up two men going in and out of this area or going up to the apartment

[00:08:16] or running away from the apartment they're they they were not there so that's also a little bit

[00:08:24] of a warning sign. Red flag. Are there other red flags? There were other there were some pretty

[00:08:30] extreme red flags actually. Well around the duct tape used to wrap Waddle a hair was found it

[00:08:39] was Frazier's hair. I don't think that's that's suspicious if she lived with the man listen,

[00:08:44] I mean I sometimes joke that I shed like a golden retriever you know like my hair. That just

[00:08:50] happens so that to me is not a huge red flag although it's it's something to note but perhaps more

[00:08:58] importantly Waddle had been dead for 12 hours before the 911 call so she did not come in and find

[00:09:06] him recently deceased this is he's he'd been dead for half a day at this point. So are we to believe

[00:09:13] that the burglars the home invaders just came in killed him wraps him up hung out there for hours

[00:09:20] and hours and hours. That that's a that that makes the story less believable. The red flags are

[00:09:28] really really paddling up at this point. Okay but here's the thing that kind of like you know definitely

[00:09:34] I think certainly a huge billowing scarlet flag so investigators looked at Frazier's devices

[00:09:45] and her web history you know just I mean I feel like my web history probably given the nature

[00:09:51] of our work probably looks pretty bad too but certainly you know nothing's happened in my life that

[00:09:57] mirrors that your web history is mostly searches for cereals. That's what you think yeah of course Kevin

[00:10:04] that's right so from August 5th to August 90s murdered on or this this is all reported on the 10th but

[00:10:12] from August 5th to August 9th Frazier is searching things like how to load a gun,

[00:10:17] how to load a revolver pistol, how to know what ammo your gun uses, how to uncock the hammer on a

[00:10:22] revolver. What does 22 ammo look like worst place to get hit in the head? Yeah okay it's it's

[00:10:31] amazing to me that people still make mistakes like that because we've seen this sort of thing

[00:10:39] reported in a lot of other cases where people do incriminating web searches right before they commit

[00:10:47] a crime. I think that's because and I hope I'm not disillusioning anyone here when I say this but

[00:10:53] I think a lot of murderers are very very stupid people because if you have to resort to murder to

[00:10:59] like deal with your either financial issues or personal issues that's really stupid you're ultimately

[00:11:04] in most cases harming yourself. We've been fed because you need a good villain to have a good story,

[00:11:09] you need a good antagonist so we've been fed all these murder mysteries where it's like some genius

[00:11:14] some Hannibal Lecter type who's like a sophisticated and is like intricately plotting everything

[00:11:20] but most murders are obviously like people who do not have the emotional intelligence maturity

[00:11:27] what have you to like keep themselves from doing something that's you know just coldly clinically

[00:11:33] going to ruin their own lives at the end of the day. And I think there's something else to play

[00:11:38] here too. I think a lot of murderers whether they're smart or not smart I think they're not really

[00:11:46] students of true crime. I think people like us people who listen to this podcast probably are well aware

[00:11:55] of some of the pitfalls that people fall into when they commit crimes so people listening to this

[00:12:01] podcast or say oh no you never do a search like that on your home computer obviously you go to

[00:12:06] a library or something because we've seen similar cases. Or just refrain and figure out the gun

[00:12:10] yourself, you know. We've seen similar cases so we know what pitfalls are made and people who don't

[00:12:17] follow true crime don't follow other cases may not be aware of things like that just is I'm not

[00:12:24] aware of how my car works. It sounds like you're about to start stroking your mustache and thing

[00:12:28] that's why no one will ever find out what I've done. Kevin laughs nervously so yeah this was all

[00:12:38] pretty obviously poorly thought out and you know it's it's also a classic you know

[00:12:44] you have cases oftentimes where there's a there's a survivor and there's mysterious people who

[00:12:50] broke in and did this how crazy you know think of the Jeffrey McDonald case. The hippies came in

[00:12:56] the woman saying acid is groovy kill the pigs. Yeah sure so you know that then I just got

[00:13:03] minorly injured compared to like the absolutely brutal killing of everybody else present so this

[00:13:10] is this match is that too like I got shot in the leg you know my boyfriend got shot in the head

[00:13:15] so that he could not survive. So you have that kind of thing where it's like trying to use an injury

[00:13:20] that is self-inflicted to gain sympathy and make it look like I couldn't have done this why would I

[00:13:25] shoot myself in a non-fatal place you know. What was the motive for this crime? Well seemingly

[00:13:31] investigators found out that Frazier had another boyfriend and that boyfriend had been calling

[00:13:38] up lotto according to WKBN and pretending to be a bank fraud investigator and the whole thing

[00:13:44] began to look like some sort of financial motive ripping off this this older man to their financial

[00:13:51] now very important to note this boyfriend police investigated thoroughly they don't believe

[00:13:58] that he had anything to do with the murder. They believe that that was Frazier alone but it is

[00:14:05] important to know that there was that context of some sort of scam going on and things all apart

[00:14:12] be hurry quickly for Frazier this we're you know we're reporting on this now because there's been a

[00:14:16] recent development but on August 13th 2023 the Zaneville the Zane'sville Times recorder ran a

[00:14:24] piece noting that she had been arrested and charged with two counts of murder,

[00:14:28] Fologna's assault tampering with evidence as well as domestic violence so

[00:14:33] fell apart immediately. What happened recently on Monday March 18th 2024 was that

[00:14:40] she went before Judge Mark C. Flegal and and Frazier pled guilty to murder with a firearm

[00:14:46] tampering with evidence and gross abuse of a corpse and the scenario that prosecutors revealed

[00:14:53] happened was that she got behind him while he was lying on his recliner and shot him in the back

[00:14:59] of the head with a 22 caliber pistol so brutal execution style murder and so now she's pled guilty

[00:15:08] so this has basically been racked up but obviously a very disturbing case but also one that highlights

[00:15:15] the fact that a lot of murders are just not you know it's just again I really I really do stand

[00:15:22] behind I think it's just people who aren't kind of not too bright most of the time.

[00:15:32] Well shall we move on to our next case? Yeah we're gonna go.

[00:15:36] I'll be for we do truly mention our sources. Oh yeah certainly so this sources for this

[00:15:42] I drew a lot from the Muskegon County prosecutors press release that they put out there

[00:15:49] this is that all the information about the charges and whatnot and additionally I went back and

[00:15:53] read the Zamesville Times recorders coverage from 2023 on newspapers.com box news had a comprehensive

[00:16:01] article on this as did WKBN and for the ones that have links we will be including those in our

[00:16:08] show notes. Before we dive into our next case what were the sources for that? Yeah sources for

[00:16:14] the next one which is going to be Michigan are press release from Wayne County prosecutor

[00:16:21] up in Michigan as well as WXYZ and those are yeah those are the two primary ones I also look through

[00:16:29] the court records from Wayne County about this specific case. So you know Ohio and Michigan are

[00:16:36] noted to be you know fierce rivals when it comes to sports so now we're gonna go up to to Michigan

[00:16:40] to talk about this next awful awful tragic case just horrifying frankly and this centers around

[00:16:48] a 30 year old woman named Chelsea Renee Duperon and her eight year old daughter Lila Castle

[00:16:56] so on Saturday March 16th 2024 Chelsea called 911 was very early in the morning she said that her

[00:17:04] eight year old daughter Lila had stopped breathing. Now when emergency personnel arrive at the scene

[00:17:12] they note some disturbing facts that this child has visible injuries to her neck, face and head

[00:17:20] she's bruised, she's swollen, she's wearing a diaper and Duperon's story just is not adding up and

[00:17:28] it's it's ever changing so to back up a bit before all this happened before the 911 call

[00:17:37] she told her boyfriend who had asked about Lila's you know visibly beaten condition. She said that

[00:17:44] she hadn't done anything her daughter had been harmed by a ghost or spirit

[00:17:50] and for some reason the boyfriend did nothing with that information because he felt that it was

[00:17:55] Chelsea's responsibility to get the girl medical attention as her mother so yeah

[00:18:02] and Duperon's bizarre claims continued after police kind of became involved in this she started

[00:18:08] telling them that a strange woman had materialized in the basement of their home and it hurt Lila

[00:18:16] and you know this kind of like whole ghost spirit apparition thing eventually she breaks down

[00:18:23] and it admits that she herself hit the girl and an autopsy revealed that Lila died from blunt force

[00:18:31] trauma so it's unclear at this time whether there were some mental health issues going on here

[00:18:39] or whether that's just an attempt to conceal and you know dodge responsibility but one thing

[00:18:48] that seems like a very smart move is that the defense attorney in this case has asked for Duperon

[00:18:55] to receive a psychological examination because if there are those mental health issues that play

[00:19:03] obviously that would come into bearing on you know trial and culpability and whatnot but either

[00:19:10] way just a very horrific end for an eight-year-old girl and just a just a disturbing case of Michigan

[00:19:18] state police is the lead agency on this currently Chelsea is facing two counts homicide aka felony

[00:19:26] murder as well as child abuse first degree child abuse judge Brenda O'Leary is presiding the next

[00:19:33] conference which will be a probable cause conference will occur on March 25th and the defense is

[00:19:40] making the argument that other people were in the house so we'll have to see what happens but

[00:19:46] just a very sad case when you see something like this like a a child who's supposed to be cared for

[00:19:52] being treated in this way dying as a result and it seems like there may have been pretty extreme red

[00:19:58] flags with with her living situation that had they been caught would have resulted things things

[00:20:06] like this are heartbreaking when you look at such an extreme tragedy and realize there were

[00:20:13] off ramps there were opportunities where something could have been done differently and the life

[00:20:19] of an innocent could have been preserved yeah it's horrible mysteries are the heart of everything we

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[00:23:07] so um those are the two midwestern crimes that i looked into kevin shall we head out west now

[00:23:13] yes and oddly enough for some reason uh i chose as my source for a california case the new york times

[00:23:21] ooh east coast west coast not sure why i did that but i did so this one actually starts all the way

[00:23:29] back on october 21st a man is just driving in a neighborhood in riverside california around 7 pm

[00:23:41] if you're not from california or if you're not familiar with california uh riverside is uh maybe

[00:23:47] about 55 miles or so south of loss angeles he is driving in this neighborhood and then he is attacked

[00:23:57] another vehicle pulls up alongside him and they open fire uh the man in the first vehicle is seriously

[00:24:08] wounded but he is not completely uh demobilized he is able to pull himself together well enough

[00:24:18] to drive himself to the hospital and by doing this he obviously saved his life

[00:24:28] that's that's a that's a terrifying prospect like like i mean anyone who's like just been

[00:24:34] minorly injured you know i like i accidentally had an accident the other day where i cut myself and

[00:24:40] i felt like you know i was like i kevin helped me you know what i mean to be in a situation like

[00:24:44] that alone and having the presence of mind to rescue yourself is is to be commended not only did he

[00:24:49] have the presence of mine to do that he apparently knew exactly where the hospital was and he

[00:24:55] he was able to he saved his own life yeah that's impressive yeah it's incredible

[00:25:00] there's an investigation and police soon learned that this was a murder for hire or rather it

[00:25:09] was an attempted murder for hire and they realized that the man who was attacked had been dating a

[00:25:20] woman whose father is identified as a pastor for a Spanish speaking church in a nearby town

[00:25:29] without i guess the town's about 40 miles away okay this gentleman's name is uh Samuel

[00:25:37] pastelia and actually he is being widely mentioned as a pastor at this church but the church has made

[00:25:48] it clear that whatever his role there is he is not on the staff so he is serving at that church in

[00:25:56] a volunteer capacity so maybe is he like a guest pastor almost like like kind of like comes in

[00:26:01] and does some sermons i mean is he indeed a pastor he's being identified as a pastor who's

[00:26:07] affiliated with this church okay he's not on he's not on the staff right that seems like an

[00:26:12] important distinction because imagine that church it doesn't want to be associated with a guy who

[00:26:18] did something like this but it raises some questions yeah because he paid or rather he's being

[00:26:26] accused of paying someone 40 thousand dollars to try to kill his daughter's boyfriend how much money

[00:26:33] 40 thousand dollars okay wow so even for a pastor it'd be difficult to imagine you have an extra

[00:26:41] 40 thousand dollars line around but if you're a volunteer pastor where does that money come from

[00:26:46] yeah that's a really good question so yeah he's been arrested and charged with

[00:26:52] hiring someone to try to kill his daughter's boyfriend and he another gentleman was also associated

[00:27:00] with him and also arrested and that gentleman's name was uh give me a second here

[00:27:11] that was one manual subarrows okay so that's the accomplice and it's also unclear at this time

[00:27:22] just what the motive was other than the fact that this what this man was dating his daughters

[00:27:31] so it's not clear if there was some bad blood yeah I'd be curious like was there bad blood was

[00:27:36] there you know did they break up was there some sort of custody to shoot did they share a child

[00:27:42] like there's yeah there's a lot of unclear there about what would uh precipitate this not that anything

[00:27:47] would ever justify you know a conspiracy to commit murder like this obviously so he was actually

[00:27:54] arrested mr. bacilia was arrested on March 13th he's charged with solicitation for murder

[00:27:59] conspiracy to commit murder attempted murder and assault with a deadly weapon and also it's

[00:28:06] interesting how did he even know who to go to to hire for this yeah like yeah I mean that is always

[00:28:14] one thing I don't understand with hitman I mean I got a little bit I mean even though it's my job

[00:28:19] to talk to people I don't know I get a little nervous you know approaching somebody to talk to

[00:28:23] like hey can you comment for this story you imagine going up to someone like hey can you kill

[00:28:27] somebody for me like how do you how do you have that conversation I guess you have to kind of ease

[00:28:32] into it but I mean like you mean like half the time you're playing and be talking to a cop yeah so

[00:28:40] uh lots of questions about this remain and I'm very curious how did he get this money why did he

[00:28:49] do this although the question of why someone commits a crime is sometimes we we like to imagine

[00:29:00] there's a good reason or a good motive or an understand like something that you can even understand

[00:29:07] but in so many crimes I remember a judge I was talking about a really inexplicable crime

[00:29:14] with a judge once this was many years ago and I told the judge I can't imagine why he would do

[00:29:22] this it doesn't make sense and the judge looked at me like I was very naive and he said is there

[00:29:29] any reason good enough to explain this you know sometimes the reason just doesn't matter or there's

[00:29:34] no reason and I think that's a valid point and also there's a lot of people out there with

[00:29:39] diagnosed or undiagnosed mental illness and so often in different cases I'm not saying that's

[00:29:46] what's the play here but often in these cases there is just no rational reason no and it's like

[00:29:51] honestly sometimes I feel like when people in true crime put too much on a motive it

[00:29:58] it almost mutts the waters a bit because it's like yeah motive can be important and certainly

[00:30:04] can be important in many stories but in other stories it almost like it doesn't matter it's like

[00:30:11] an irrational mind can justify a lot of things to itself and to me I mean whatever if this was

[00:30:19] a personal dispute I think many of us may have had like negative situations in our personal

[00:30:25] lives or professional lives or whatnot and you might have gotten very angry at someone but think

[00:30:30] about like the most angry you've ever been at somebody and then think about like using that

[00:30:35] anger to then fuel like going to somebody offering to pay the money to kill that but like you kind

[00:30:42] of are stepping way beyond like I think anything that a lot of us can even relate to because like

[00:30:47] the ceiling is just so much higher and like the people just take it so far that it's kind of

[00:30:55] unbelievable to a lot of us I think that's an excellent point and I think probably if we're

[00:31:02] honest with one another many of us at certain points in our life have been really really angry

[00:31:08] with someone and may even have thought for a moment why wish that person was dead or I wish that

[00:31:14] person was no longer here but for most of us those feelings come and they go very very quickly

[00:31:22] but for something like that you have to maintain that high level of hatred and irrationality

[00:31:29] for days and weeks and months yeah the fire has to burn so hot for so long rather than just be

[00:31:35] like like a one-time flare up and honestly in certain cases especially in like street violence

[00:31:43] and gang violence that's what makes the proliferation of guns being everywhere illegal and legal

[00:31:49] guns being everywhere so bad because like a minor dispute can suddenly turn into a gun shot

[00:31:54] you know gun battle because people have access to that but in other cases like so that just

[00:31:59] takes a moment but in other cases it's like this revenge thing and it's just obviously ultimately

[00:32:06] ends up probably hurting the person who's trying to carry it off more than anybody else because

[00:32:12] your life and reputation are ruined forever and you know and what you have to

[00:32:18] to show for it essentially it's yeah it's it's definitely I'm very curious to know what the fall

[00:32:24] out between these two were the victim and the person you know Paseleus.

[00:32:30] I'm very concerned whether I'm very curious also about what the doctor makes of all of this.

[00:32:36] I know right yeah I'd be curious if they were together or not still.

[00:32:40] Yeah.

[00:32:41] Yeah.

[00:32:42] Moving on to our final case.

[00:32:44] Up north, north of California.

[00:32:46] This is all the way up in Portland Oregon and the source we used for this was the CBS news.

[00:32:54] This this case began a long long time ago all the way back in 1980 when a 19 year old college

[00:33:04] student named Barbara May Tucker was murdered and sexually assaulted.

[00:33:11] And it is grotesque to mention this detail but I feel it's necessary because

[00:33:20] it relates to the charges.

[00:33:22] It is not clear if Miss Tucker was alive or dead when she was sexually assaulted.

[00:33:27] So horrifying.

[00:33:28] And so that makes it difficult to know whether or not rape charges could be used in this case.

[00:33:36] So this case was solved fairly recently and in fact a man named Robert Plimpton was just found

[00:33:45] guilty of this crime last week and it was because he was found guilty because there was DNA materials

[00:33:54] on the body of the victim that were preserved.

[00:33:58] And once investigators, decades later, invest in once investigators, decades later identified

[00:34:06] this man as a possible suspect they saw him discard some chewing gum.

[00:34:13] And they got his DNA from that chewing gum.

[00:34:17] And so because of this Robert Plimpton, a 60 year old man was found guilty of first degree murder

[00:34:25] in the deaths of Barbara May Tucker.

[00:34:27] Good. Yeah.

[00:34:30] And so it long, long last this woman has some justice.

[00:34:37] These cases make me so so we're talking about a rational anger.

[00:34:41] Actually I don't think this is irrational.

[00:34:42] I think this is totally rational anger because they just make me furious when it's a case of some

[00:34:49] disgusting person who values an orgasm over a woman's life.

[00:34:58] And like that's an okay trade off for them, like to rape and murder a woman brutally like this.

[00:35:06] Like she was nothing, like she was just a means to an end for him.

[00:35:10] Like there's something so I don't know how I don't know how people can think that way,

[00:35:18] but it just makes me so angry because she had a life ahead of her.

[00:35:22] She should have been able to live it, but somebody decided no,

[00:35:25] I want to have sexual gratification now.

[00:35:28] Yes, the world was robbed of this woman.

[00:35:31] I just I and it's it's it's infuriating how do you fix this?

[00:35:35] We don't know what kind of life she would have led if she would have wanted to get married,

[00:35:40] have children. We don't know if she had a successful career making all sorts of contributions,

[00:35:45] but all of that is gone.

[00:35:47] How do you how do you like how do we as a society get men to not do this?

[00:35:50] Like I just don't even know. Like I mean, like it and just the amount of I mean a lot of the crimes

[00:35:58] that have been high profile that get attention that because they've been solved by genetic genealogy

[00:36:06] and the you know, the kind of advances in DNA technology.

[00:36:10] Our cases like this because these cases typically have DNA because there's a rape,

[00:36:15] a sexual assault. So we have the offender DNA.

[00:36:17] So it's just a lot of them have come to the forefront in recent years because they're just

[00:36:21] getting solved because of this, but it just underscores how how a lot of these murders just take

[00:36:27] place because of what I just said and it's just, it just makes me feel a lot of rage I guess.

[00:36:34] It's it's infuriating and also very happy that this man faced justice but it is chilling to think

[00:36:43] of the impact he may have had on other women over the course of the last 40 years.

[00:36:49] If you did this to one young lady, perhaps he committed other crimes or assaults that maybe

[00:36:55] were not even reported.

[00:36:57] Yeah, that's a that's a good point. I mean, that's the thing people often think well he must have

[00:37:01] been a serial killer. A lot of these guys aren't a lot of these guys seemingly do it once and

[00:37:08] then but that doesn't mean that they're then any credit to you know society or any you know like

[00:37:15] angels it's it's you can there's a lot of ways that you can harm other people

[00:37:19] and and there's there's sexual assaults that don't end in murder. There's domestic violence.

[00:37:26] All sorts of things so it's not always like the serial killer type but it can be you know

[00:37:33] and domestic violence in some ways viewed from the outside it can be an invisible crime.

[00:37:40] Yes, because we're not in the homes of people as they're being assaulted by their partners.

[00:37:46] You know, we if a person gets shot on the streets of a person to claim someone came in their house

[00:37:51] in a home invasion. The world sees that but if a man assaults his wife or his girlfriend

[00:38:00] in their own home that is not seen and so that is an easier crime to get away with unfortunately.

[00:38:07] Yes, and sometimes economic or psychological factors might be continuing to bind the victim to

[00:38:13] the abuser so it's not reported or the person can't break away or they're too scared to and so

[00:38:19] it is a situation where is that is honestly such a people have such a like I mean honestly

[00:38:29] like I feel sometimes true crime should focus a little bit more on that because I think everyone's

[00:38:33] interested in the serial killers because that feels like this could happen to anybody and like

[00:38:37] that's true but domestic violence could also happen to anybody and it's it's more prevalent

[00:38:43] you're more likely to run into that in your real life or know somebody who's been through that

[00:38:49] then to know somebody who's been victimized by a serial killer. Well said.

[00:38:56] But yeah, I mean just a horrible case but I'm so glad that he's still alive like in the

[00:39:01] got them. I hate in those cases when you know the person who's the perpetrator is dead not able

[00:39:06] to face any accountability for their actions. Yes, it is it is satisfying that he lived to be

[00:39:13] publicly shamed and helped to account. Yes, absolutely. So does that take us through our four cases

[00:39:22] for today? That takes us through our four cases and again apologies we had to miss cheat sheet

[00:39:27] last week because of developments in the Delphi case. We had big dreams of doing two cheat sheet

[00:39:32] episodes this week that didn't happen but at least we are here with one cheat sheet and hopefully

[00:39:38] we will have a cheat sheet for you next Friday as well. Thanks everyone so much for listening.

[00:39:43] Have a great weekend.

[00:39:48] Thanks so much for listening to the murder sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases

[00:39:53] we cover, please email us at murder sheet at gmail.com. If you have actionable information about

[00:40:02] an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

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