The Cheat Sheet : Streams and Sleepovers

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[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_00] I'm Kevin, and today on the cheat sheet, we'll be looking at a variety of cases from all over the globe. Content warning this episode includes discussion of mass shooting, suicide, the murder of children, rape, and terrorism. So as you may or may not know, Anya and I recently had a vacation, and we talked at some length about that vacation on some of our premium episodes. We have a lot of fun on the premium episodes.

[00:02:10] [SPEAKER_00] If you join premium either via Apple or Patreon, ad-free episodes, early episodes.

[00:02:17] [SPEAKER_01] It's a fun community.

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_00] It's a fun community. And on one of our premium episodes, we talked about our trip to Hawaii, and I had a near-death experience. And when I say near-death experience, I mean I was mildly inconvenienced. It was like I had a bad 10, 15 minutes, and after that, I was fine. Yeah, it sounds about right. But it's more exciting to say it was a near-death experience. So please consider joining us on Patreon or Apple in our premium community.

[00:02:46] [SPEAKER_00] You could add free episodes, extra episodes, the works, and we really appreciate it. It makes it possible for us to continue to do this program. So because we were traveling, I thought, wouldn't it be, well, maybe fun's not the right word to use with an episode of a true crime podcast, but wouldn't it be blank to do a special international edition of the cheat sheet?

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_01] That would be so blank. Exactly.

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_00] And Anya is tied up, hand and foot, working on other things. And so the entire responsibility for planning this week's cheat sheet episodes fell upon my shoulders. So I didn't even have to say, Anya, do you want to do a special theme week international edition of cheat sheet? I just did it and said, Anya, ready to record. You have the power. I have the power. It's gone to your head. It's gone to my head, frankly.

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_00] So let's see what happens in this special international edition.

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_02] My name is Anya Kane. I'm a journalist.

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_00] And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney. And this is The Murder Sheet. We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases.

[00:04:02] [SPEAKER_02] We're The Murder Sheet.

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_00] And this is The Cheat Sheet, Streams and Sleepovers.

[00:04:08] [SPEAKER_00] Well, you know, Anya, I don't want to start by just grabbing you and tossing you bodily into another country.

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_00] Let's ease into it. Let's take our time. Let's just ease into it. My source for this first one is NBC News. And this is a story that involves incidents in Canada and incidents in Washington state.

[00:05:18] [SPEAKER_00] And I think it's also a useful reminder because when you are online and communicating with people online, sometimes it doesn't feel quite real, does it?

[00:05:32] [SPEAKER_02] No, it doesn't. Yeah.

[00:05:34] [SPEAKER_00] It feels almost artificial. It doesn't feel like it has any consequences or actual weight. But guess what? It does. And this involves a person named James Cody Bryant, who apparently identifies as female.

[00:05:52] [SPEAKER_00] And James Cody Bryant was in communication online with a mass shooter who ended up doing a mass shooting in Canada back in February, an 18-year-old. I think you've indicated we don't name mass shooters on this program. I'll tell you, in some of these documents, they just refer to this mass shooter by their initials, JVR.

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_00] JVR is an 18-year-old, as I said, also transitioning to female and was in communication with James Cody Bryant. And in these communications via Discord indicated, basically, maybe I'm oversimplifying a bit, but said, basically, oh, I want to do a mass shooting. And James Bryant at some point seemed to say, well, maybe you shouldn't do that.

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_00] But when it became clear that JVR could not be talked out of this, James Cody Bryant began offering assistance and saying, well, you know, if you want, I can help you live stream it. And when after JVR had committed some murders of family members and was heading to the site where they're going to do this mass shooting, they experienced car trouble.

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_00] And James Cody Bryant was like, well, here's how you fix your car. So it's pretty clear that if not for the aid and encouragement of James Cody Bryant, this terrible incident might not have occurred at all. What are your thoughts?

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_02] They should throw the book at this person. I mean, yeah, this would not have happened had this person done the right thing and gone to police. So I think throw the book at her.

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. And I want to be clear, this mass shooting, James VR, went to a school, the Tumblr Ridge Secondary School, killed five children, three 12-year-old girls and two boys, one 12 and the other 13. After that also killed a teacher, James VR, then died by suicide.

[00:08:06] [SPEAKER_02] JVR, you said?

[00:08:07] [SPEAKER_00] JVR, yes.

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_02] So it's one of those things where you have this adult who, first of all, why is a 30-year-old talking to an 18-year-old on? Like, I just find that weird. You know, I mean, I don't know. I'm in my 30s. I have no desire to have some secret communications with a teenager because I, first of all, don't think that's appropriate. But, like, what do you even have in common at that point? It's just, it raises all sorts of questions.

[00:08:36] [SPEAKER_02] And then to be confronted with, I mean, any of us might find ourselves in a situation where we're talking with somebody who turns out to have ill intent and be planning to do something. And I would like to think that most people who are good-hearted would run into a troubled teenager like this one and be like, oh my gosh, I'm going to go to the police. Because, like, you're saving this person from killing other people and possibly harming themselves in the process.

[00:09:04] [SPEAKER_02] Like, that's the appropriate thing to do in this situation. You're not helping anything or being a good person by keeping confidence of someone who's planning mass destruction. I don't even understand what would go through someone's mind. I understand more so the impetus behind a mass shooter who is depraved and wants the attention and wants the, you know, whatever notoriety comes with this thing.

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_02] Like, I understand that more than I do somebody who doesn't have that impulse covering up and helping out. That just doesn't make any sense to me. So, it's, I mean, I get, I throw the book at this lady because I don't, I don't know, you know, I think if we're going to see any positive change, I think oftentimes, like, charging people who played a role in these things is going to be important.

[00:10:01] [SPEAKER_02] Because maybe the next creeper talking with somebody like this on the internet might actually be, you know, well, I could go to prison if I don't say something now. And maybe that is a good incentive to put out there.

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_00] Maybe it is. Because if you have the power to stop this and you don't exercise that power, if you have the power to discourage it and instead of discouraging it, you encourage it by saying, oh, here's how you live stream it. Oh, you have car trouble? Here's how you can fix your car and get to this site. You need to know if you take those steps, you're going to be held criminally responsible. And that is appropriate that you showed my judgment.

[00:10:40] [SPEAKER_02] I mean, like, she started off on the right foot by being like, oh, don't do this. And then, but then to, like, be offering all this aid, it's like, it's like that's just consciousness of guilt at that point. You knew enough to say don't do this. And then you go ahead and encourage it anyway. And that's, you know, I hope they throw the book at her.

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_00] I imagine that in some circumstances when you're talking to someone on the internet, not only does it not seem real, but perhaps you might even imagine that one or both of you are engaging in some kind of fantasy role-playing situation. And what you're talking about is a fictional scenario and not something that's actually planned to occur in the real world. But when you look at this and when you look at the level of detail,

[00:11:30] [SPEAKER_00] it seems clear that this person knew this was real. And I'm just baffled as to why they took the steps they did. And also, I'm baffled as to why in this day and age, people don't realize that even when you're sitting at home alone on your computer, the things you write don't go away.

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_00] And if you're participating in a Discord where you're making plans or encouraging plans, that's going to exist. Yes. The written record of that is going to exist and it can be used against you as it should.

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_02] Criminals are stupid. That's what I have to say to that. And the other thing, and you know, these people are criminals. And the other thing is that I, the idea that, like, I'm not trying to shame anyone. Actually, no, I am trying to shame people. If someone's idea of a good time is sitting around role-playing, participating in a mass shooting, you're a sick person and you should get help. Maybe you need to get off wind.

[00:12:35] [SPEAKER_02] Like, you know, I don't feel like there should even be any gray area about that. That's bizarre. Okay? I don't, that's not appropriate. I think if you're role-playing with an 18-year-old on the internet about a mass shooting, something's gone wrong. And at that point, the plug needs to be pulled and that's it. So, yeah. I'll kink shame on that. I don't know if that's a sexual thing or supposed to be fun. I don't even know. I don't understand this.

[00:13:05] [SPEAKER_02] I think the internet has broken a lot of people. And I guess, like, to act, well, I just thought we were role-playing. Well, what? Okay. So, maybe I'm just old at heart. I don't understand that. Do you?

[00:13:20] [SPEAKER_00] That's not something that would excite me.

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_02] No, I know it wouldn't excite you, but I'm just like, I can't, like, I can't imagine how that would excite anyone. I just feel like that's really messed up.

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_00] I think a lot of people just enjoy the idea of doing something that's forbidden.

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, it's perverse. It's like, oh, I'm breaking all the rules, you know? But I just, you know, I, again, like, a lot of things, a lot, I mean, again, I'm assuming this is, when you say role-playing, I'm assuming it's sexual. Maybe it's not. Maybe there's other types of this that I don't understand.

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_00] I wasn't even specifically referring to anything in this case. I'm just saying, in some instances, when you are communicating with someone online and they say something outrageous, you may not realize it's real. I'm not saying that's a defense in this case. I'm not saying that's what happened in this case. I'm just making a general comment.

[00:14:10] [SPEAKER_02] In this day and age, in this day and age, I would just assume anything could be real. And if someone's making a bunch of really concerning statements about a mass shooting, I'm going to do my civic duty and report them. And you know what? In my mind, that's being nice to them because that's possibly getting them some serious help and an intervention before they actually go ahead and kill people and possibly die themselves in the process.

[00:14:38] [SPEAKER_00] And over and above the fact that turning a person in in that situation is clearly the moral and ethical thing to do, I would also argue that it is the selfish thing to do. Because if there is a mass murder committed and there is digital evidence that you had foreknowledge of that and did not take steps to stop it, then your life and your freedom is going to be in jeopardy.

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_00] And so protect your own interest by sharing with authorities what you know.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_02] Yep.

[00:15:10] [SPEAKER_00] So are we ready to move on to Japan?

[00:15:15] [SPEAKER_02] Yes.

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_00] Have you ever been to Japan?

[00:15:17] [SPEAKER_02] I've unfortunately never been to Japan. I've always been curious, though. I'm here to be a beautiful, very interesting country, very interesting culture. So that's that's definitely a place I'd love to see.

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, I've heard a lot of great things about Japan. I we are vacation was in Honolulu and there was a little coffee tea. There was a place selling a product I'm not interested in because I don't drink coffee. I don't drink tea. So don't ask me for details. But for some reason, I think it was Japanese themed because it had a big poster that said something to the effect of the Peanuts characters, Peanuts comic strip characters come to Japan.

[00:15:59] [SPEAKER_01] Yes. We did point you pointed that out and we were we were gawking at that a bit. Like, OK.

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_00] You were like slack jaw tourists looking at posters for the Peanuts gang.

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Going to Japan.

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_00] And those are the type of stories you can get in our Hawaii premium episode. I don't think we include that.

[00:16:21] [SPEAKER_02] Is Peanuts big in Japan?

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_00] Apparently the characters are visiting there. That's all I know.

[00:16:28] [SPEAKER_02] Cue up Alphaville.

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_00] I don't I don't get that reference.

[00:16:32] [SPEAKER_02] Alphaville was a 1980s band that has a song that I enjoy called Big in Japan, referring to the kind of cultural phenomenon. Sometimes bands or other cultural things blow up in Japan. The Japanese love them. Can't get enough. And but yeah, that I jam out to that song sometimes.

[00:16:51] [SPEAKER_00] Source for this CBS News and also USA Today. This involves the murder of a 39 year old woman named Anna Yagi. The person who stands accused of that crime is Lance Corporal Devin Jacob Ballard. Miss Yagi was 39. Lance Corporal Ballard is 20. As you might guess from me giving his rank.

[00:17:18] [SPEAKER_00] He is a United States soldier stationed in Okinawa. And what I didn't realize.

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_02] He's a United States Marine, not a soldier. OK.

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_00] What I didn't realize is there is a lot of military presence from the United States in Okinawa.

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_03] Yes.

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_00] And there are a couple of reasons for that. One of which is our obligations to protect Japan. And also Okinawa is located in a very strategic place on the globe so that people who are stationed there can easily go to other parts of the globe to perform whatever functions are needed.

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_00] As you might guess, sometimes people who live in an area with heavy military presence aren't really fond of that. Understandably so. I don't think I would be thrilled if there were thousands and thousands of soldiers from a foreign power walking around the streets of Indianapolis. What would you think of that?

[00:18:26] [SPEAKER_02] Especially if not that they're raping and killing women. I mean, I'd be furious.

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. And there is a history of crime related to this military presence. A really big example of that was back in the 90s. There was a gang rape involving servicemen who gang raped a 12-year-old schoolgirl. Gosh. There have been other crimes that have taken place in Okinawa over the years related to the military.

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_00] So the people there are upset. They're upset. He's grown with this latest incident. The people who run the military base are basically saying, we're sorry. We know that we need to build trust with you and this doesn't do it. They're basically at this point.

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_00] They are temporarily suspending operations for 48 hours in order to provide special training to the service members in Okinawa about how to behave. And there's also going to be a month-long overnight curfew of the soldiers so that they basically can't be out from the base overnight for a month-long period. The curfew would go from midnight to 5 a.m. So what are your thoughts on all of this?

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_02] I mean, as an American, it's deeply embarrassing and tragic and upsetting. And I just apologize to Japan and the people of Okinawa. I mean, it's horrible. I mean, I would be furious if I were them. I'd be furious if I were this poor woman's family. She didn't do anything to deserve this. There is a history of this. It's not a one-off incident, as you said. And, you know, I think it's awful. I mean, listen, I support our military and whatnot.

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_02] I'm not going to pretend to know the nuances of all the global politics that go into whether or not there should be a base here. I'm just not smart enough to, like, weigh in on that. But if there's going to be anything like this anywhere, there has to be trust with the local population. There has to be respect. There's nothing more disrespectful than this. Disrespectful doesn't really cover it. It's heinous. It's disgusting.

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_02] It's wrong. And I hope that if they are able to prove this case against this person, they should absolutely throw the book at him. I mean, I said that about the lady in the first case we covered. But, like, I hope they punish him to the fullest extent of Japan's law. You know, I think they need to because her life mattered.

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_02] And, you know, this is not how Japan is an ally. I mean, even if they weren't an ally, I mean, it's like just civilians shouldn't be targeted like this by a member who's supposed to be, you know, serving our military. But, you know, I mean, we've talked about this in the course of history. It's unfortunate. But, you know, certainly when war comes to any location, rapes follow.

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_02] That's just been throughout history, right? And, you know, even when there's not a war going on, when you have, you know, I'm just going to say this. I'm not trying to generalize. But the military, any military is going to be often a lot of young men.

[00:22:00] [SPEAKER_02] And those are, that is the demographic, the young men, that is going to be, you're going to have a subset that's more at risk for doing something like this. That's not to say that all young men are like that. It's not to say that military men are necessarily like that. It's just to say that, you know, you're concentrating a large group of that in one area. I think it's a risk.

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_02] And that means because we know it's a risk, it really behooves certainly United States military leaders to be figuring out what they need to do to prevent stuff like this from ever happening. And if it does happen, certainly, I would hope, cooperating fully with local authorities, not covering it up and being very transparent. Because that is, that is the way forward. I hope they do that in this instance.

[00:22:52] [SPEAKER_02] But I also hope there are, I mean, I hear that they're doing a response now. But what are some proactive things that can be done to also just maybe root out recruiting people like this? You know, like what sort of psychological markers might indicate someone might be more likely to rape and kill an innocent woman? Like, I don't know. I think these are conversations that we should be having to be more proactive about this stuff.

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_02] But, you know, it's very sad. It's very hurtful. And again, my heart goes out to this woman and her family. This never should have happened.

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, the crime never should have occurred. I should hasten to add that Mr. Ballard has denied the crime. I don't know the extent of the evidence against him that led to the arrest. The only fact that I see noted in reports is apparently there is some security footage showing a man entering the hotel with this woman.

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_00] And this is the hotel where she was later found deceased. That man later leaves alone. And the claim is that security footage of that man. He is seen to have a shaved head and certain tattoos on his arms. And those match Mr. Ballard.

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_02] Could prove pretty damning. Certainly. I suppose we'll see. See what evidence there is. I mean, I don't want to just rush to condemn someone. But that sounds pretty bad.

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_00] So are we ready to move on to the United Kingdom?

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, certainly.

[00:24:30] [SPEAKER_00] So my source for this is the New York Post. And this is a story. It's a domestic violence story. And I think when we talk about domestic violence, often people seem to have the attitude, oh, it can't happen here. It can't happen in my neighborhood. It can't happen to these people. And one of the reasons I want to highlight this story is it does happen everywhere.

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_00] No one is safe from the scourge of domestic violence. This involves a woman named Hannah Kane. She was a doctor in England. And she was a doctor whose patients included the royal family, including Queen Camilla. So certainly a prominent person. You'd think she would be living a very comfortable and safe life.

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_00] She is hosting a sleepover for her children and their friends. And that is when her husband, 45-year-old Mark Kane, is charged with killing her. And as I say, when you look at the coverage of this, you see neighbors literally saying, oh, this is the sort of place where if you forget to lock your car and leave it out all night, nothing will happen to it. You read about things like this happening in other places.

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_00] But domestic violence happens everywhere and no one is safe from it. We have to really be aware of the signs of domestic violence to protect ourselves and those we love.

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah.

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_00] What do you think?

[00:26:07] [SPEAKER_02] I think I appreciate you highlighting this because I think people sometimes think of domestic violence as some or intimate partner violence as something that happens to other people. And they also see it as something that I think oftentimes people have kind of a class-based attitude. Like it's something that happens to like impoverished.

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_00] We'd like to give a big thank you to Vinted, the sponsor of this episode.

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[00:31:11] [SPEAKER_02] First people or people who are struggling, and it can happen at any demographic. It can happen to anyone. It can happen to men as well as women, right? It can happen in heterosexual couples, homosexual couples, whatever. Whatever you're doing, it can happen anywhere. And, you know, I think people see, like, a woman who is a physician as someone who has made it. They're successful. They have a job that's respected. They have a job that's important.

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_02] They have a job that requires extensive education and training and responsibility. And they think, well, that person, you know, is doing well. And, yeah, they are. But they think that the wrong partnership can still have coercive control elements that can spill into outright violence and even murder. And I think it's really important to remember that. It really does not discriminate.

[00:32:07] [SPEAKER_02] And I just worry sometimes when I just see people being like, well, I can't believe that was the case. And it's like, no, it really doesn't discriminate. And I think we need to go beyond just raising awareness about that. And I think we need to be raising awareness about how do you identify the signs of it if you're in it or if someone close to you is in it?

[00:32:30] [SPEAKER_02] And how do we vet those things before it gets violent?

[00:32:37] [SPEAKER_00] Don't we have an episode in the hopper coming up in the next few weeks about this very topic?

[00:32:42] [SPEAKER_02] That is right. With one of our favorite guests, Tim Sled. So that'll be an interesting conversation. But I hope it can be like something that people can almost use in their own lives to assess their own relationships and make sure that they're safe. Because it can happen like the perfect couple, right? People always are like, oh, they were the perfect couple. But then he murdered her or she murdered him. And it's like, well, sometimes appearances can be deceiving, but there are subtle signs.

[00:33:11] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, it's just terrible. And to me, a horrifying detail is that this crime happened during a sleepover, which means there were children in the house when this woman lost her life.

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_02] Horrifying. You know, one thing I always just kind of roll my eyes with with the media is though like, oh, she was Queen Camilla's physician. Okay. Like, I get why they're doing that. But like, I don't know. Is that really the most important? I don't know.

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_00] I think it's important only to the extent that it serves as a reminder that you can be someone is important and have as much notoriety as the doctor to the queen. And you can still be vulnerable to having this sort of thing happen to you.

[00:33:59] [SPEAKER_02] I get it. I get it. Sometimes it's like the celebrity-fied angle of everything just could be like a little bit like, okay. But no, I understand it.

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_00] So are we ready to conclude our special international cosmopolitan edition of the cheat sheet by settling down in Israel?

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_03] Sure.

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_00] My source for this is the Times of Israel. This involves a mathematician named, I'm probably going to mispronounce this name, Shahar Nevo. Full professor. He researches complex analysis and operator theory. I'm not even sure what operator theory is.

[00:34:43] [SPEAKER_02] That's way above my pay grade.

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_00] This guy researches it. And I guess if he wasn't a bad guy, and it sounds like he is a bad guy, he would be somebody you could go to and ask about operator theory.

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_01] Oh, no. What did he do?

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_00] This guy had a scheme. His idea is, I'm going to approach a politician. I'm going to mispronounce this guy's name too. Moshe Feiglin, who apparently is a far-right politician in Israel. And I'm going to try to persuade him into helping me do a terrorist attack.

[00:35:23] [SPEAKER_00] And if I can't persuade him to do this, if my golden tongue can't persuade this politician who doesn't know me to participate with me in a mass terrorist attack, well, then I'll blackmail him. Oh, my goodness. So that's what he is. He threatens this guy. His scheme, it's a complicated scheme, involves finding a bunch of terrorists, I think 71 or 72 terrorists.

[00:35:53] [SPEAKER_00] You're going to make Arabs flee from Israel, and then apparently you're going to be killing them. And his idea was that maybe six or 700 Arabs would end up being killed in these attacks. He named his plan EYET, which means eagle. And he thought this is a great idea.

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_00] The politician didn't really think it was a good idea. This guy, he ends up getting arrested. This guy's attorneys have told him what you should do. Here's an idea. What you should do at this point is act like you're crazy, because if you're crazy, maybe you'll get a lesser sentence.

[00:36:45] [SPEAKER_02] Wait, they just straight up told him that?

[00:36:46] [SPEAKER_00] That's what the guy says.

[00:36:47] [SPEAKER_02] Oh, my word.

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_00] But this guy says, no, I'm completely competent and I stand behind my actions. But that said, he doesn't think he deserves to be punished. He's scared because his jailers are Muslims. And so maybe they'll be out to get him just because he wanted to kill six or 700 of them. No one ended up dying in this attack.

[00:37:13] [SPEAKER_00] But I don't know if you get mercy just because you're incompetent with your murderous schemes. It's just a horrifying scheme. The reason this one jumped out at me is he's talking now to the court and he's trying to come up with reasons as defendants do. Here's why my punishment shouldn't be severe. Here's why I deserve to be let off easy.

[00:37:41] [SPEAKER_00] We've all heard these kind of speeches from defendants and their lawyers. Oh, I'm an orphan. I'm the sole support of somebody. What are this guy's reasons? I'm going to quote from the story. Quote, Nevo was said to argue that he should be released from jail, claiming that, quote, at the moment, there is no danger to anyone. My life has been turned upside down.

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_00] I have so many things to do and financial issues to take care of as well as student exams to grade.

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_01] Oh, no.

[00:38:14] [SPEAKER_00] There's something about the idea, oh, I plotted the deaths of hundreds of people. But, you know, I got to grade these papers. I got to grade these tests. So you should let me out. That just seems so absurd.

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_01] Did that fly?

[00:38:29] [SPEAKER_00] I don't think a decision has been made.

[00:38:32] [SPEAKER_02] I don't think that's going to fly.

[00:38:33] [SPEAKER_00] I don't think that's going to fly.

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_02] Not a great reason.

[00:38:37] [SPEAKER_00] Not a great reason. He says, I don't see who I'm a danger to. Well, I think you're a danger to the six or seven hundred Arabs you were thinking about killing. The only reason those people are not dead is because you're not good at being a terrorist. Thank God.

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_02] Was he like, was he like, was this like revenge for October 7th? Or like what, what was he, what was he doing?

[00:39:00] [SPEAKER_00] Who knows? Uh, the plan called for, quote, 72 armed Jewish terrorists working in 12 squadrons of six people east to simultaneously attack Arab population centers with guns, axes, and support from hypothetical subversive elements in the military.

[00:39:19] [SPEAKER_02] Did he know who those 72 people were going to be? Or was it?

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_00] The first, I think the first one he was trying to recruit was this politician. And with a politician didn't seem all that interested. He said, well, I'll blackmail you.

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_02] Okay.

[00:39:33] [SPEAKER_00] That didn't work either.

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_02] Do you know what kind of sentence he's facing? Or is it kind of unclear?

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_00] I think at this point it's unclear.

[00:39:39] [SPEAKER_02] Okay. Jeez. Yeah, that sounds like a mess. And I'm glad I didn't get to do that. But that, that is a, yeah, that is, it does, honestly, it does sound kind of crazy to me. But to me, if you're, even if there's that element to it, if you're still trying to cover it up, that speaks to consciousness of guilt enough to, you know, not necessarily factor. But I also don't know what the standard is in Israel.

[00:40:06] [SPEAKER_00] I'll read another quote from this article. Quote, when the politician did not respond to his appeals, the suspect allegedly tried about a month ago to blackmail the politician into joining while also implementing various methods of concealment and obstruction to avoid being discovered. And when you're trying to avoid being discovered, as you say, that certainly indicates a consciousness of guilt. So I don't know what to think about his mental state. He seems to know what he was doing was wrong and could get him in trouble.

[00:40:34] [SPEAKER_00] He seems able to participate in society because he's giving exams to his students and is working as a professor. But if you really think that, oh, this politician I have no contact with, I'll write him a letter and see if he wants to join my murderous scheme. And I bet he'll say yes. That doesn't really indicate a sign of great mental health.

[00:40:56] [SPEAKER_02] No, it doesn't. But, you know, I don't even like I think a lot. I think there's a there's a scale. Like there's a spectrum. And and a lot of murderers are certainly mentally unwell. But it's just the question or would be murderers. It's just the question is, does it rise to the level of you couldn't help your actions or you couldn't tell what was right or wrong? And and that's that's a harder thing.

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_02] You know, that's not the absence of mental illness. You know, the absence of mental illness doesn't necessarily matter. The inclusion of mental illness doesn't really matter. It's more of like, you know. Does does it affect you to that extent? But, yeah, that's troubling. I'm glad they caught him before he did anything.

[00:41:40] [SPEAKER_00] And, you know, Anya, I'm no expert. I'm no academic. But if you say, oh, my God, grading these exams is so tremendously important. It can't be delayed. Can't he just grade them while he's incarcerated? I guess. But also, if you're one of his students, maybe have I don't know if I'd really want him to grade my test or even take the test. Be concerned. Maybe have someone else take a look at it. Look at my test.

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_00] I don't want to have the accused mass murderer deciding whether or not I pass my class.

[00:42:16] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Can you imagine? Wow.

[00:42:18] [SPEAKER_00] Have you ever taken a class from an accused killer that you know of?

[00:42:25] [SPEAKER_02] I will tell you what. I don't even know if I should say this, but I'm going to say it anyway because I started to. No, I've never done that. I will say one time we were driving around. Yeah. Okay. So I was in a class where we would go to some historic sites. It was like one of my favorite classes. And I remember I was in the front seat. We were in this van just going around. I called it the history machine.

[00:42:52] [SPEAKER_00] That's a reference to Scooby-Doo's mystery machine. Yeah.

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_02] And we'd go and kind of look and explore all these different historical sites. And it was a great class. And I remember I was very interested in a serial killing case that had happened there in the 80s, the Colonial Parkway murders. And that had happened like right near our campus. And I forced my newspaper on campus to do a little podcast miniseries about it years ago. So I was very interested in it.

[00:43:22] [SPEAKER_02] And we were talking about it because we were driving on the Colonial Parkway a lot. And so we're on the Colonial Parkway. We're driving. The professor's driving. I'm shotgun. And we're talking about it. And the kids in the back are talking about it too. And then at one point, you know, the kid was really, oh man, who could have done this? It's awful.

[00:43:39] [SPEAKER_01] And then at one point he turns to me and is like, you know, I was the only one who was here in the 80s.

[00:43:48] [SPEAKER_02] We were like, oh no, it's him. No, but he was not the killer. And also he was a very nice gentleman and he was just being silly. So sometimes you got to have this dark sense of humor about things, guys. Because Kevin and I often, I feel like people would be horrified. Like we have a very dark sense. You and I have a very dark sense of humor at this point. Is that fair to say?

[00:44:08] [SPEAKER_00] That's fair to say.

[00:44:08] [SPEAKER_02] We probably always have. But, you know, so sometimes you joke about stuff like that. It's not funny, but it's just in the moment it could be a bit funny. I remember, I think my dark sense of humor endeared me to you early on in our correspondence. Is that fair to say?

[00:44:25] [SPEAKER_03] How so?

[00:44:26] [SPEAKER_02] I remember the candle.

[00:44:31] [SPEAKER_00] Why don't you tell that anecdote?

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_02] Okay. So in Indiana somewhere, I always forget where, but then you come upon it and you're like, oh, there it is. There is a giant candle. Is that fair to say?

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_00] That's fair to say.

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_02] There's a giant candle on the side of the road. I think it's associated with some kind of store. You always just feel like, whoa, there's a giant candle. And then you drive by and you're like, what was that all about? But I think it's in the eastern part of the state, I want to say.

[00:44:58] [SPEAKER_00] What you're doing now is you're fixating on an irrelevant detail.

[00:45:01] [SPEAKER_02] That's fair. So there's a candle. And Kevin once texted me when we were getting to know each other this picture of this giant candle. And I texted him back.

[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_00] Because I know what the women like to see.

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_02] Wick pics. I texted him back, acid is groovy, kill the pigs. So some of you may be wondering why that is. Well, there's in the Jeffrey McDonald case, that man who is very guilty made up a story where a bunch of evil hippies attacked him.

[00:45:41] [SPEAKER_02] And one of them was a woman in a floppy hat and boots holding a candle chanting, acid is groovy, kill the pigs. So Kevin found that amusing. Many of you may not. But I'd like to think that that's why you wanted to marry me ultimately. My disturbed sense of humor.

[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_00] On that very disturbing and troubling note, should we call an end to, well, before we wrap up this special international edition. Do you want to speak a few words in another language to welcome our international listeners?

[00:46:15] [SPEAKER_02] I don't have, unfortunately, I have no ear for languages. I have no mind for languages. I studied Latin in high school and middle school and don't remember any of it. Very much enjoyed learning about Roman history, Roman culture, the history of all of it. Love that. But the actual language itself, I feel like I'm fighting for my life in English.

[00:46:42] [SPEAKER_02] So unfortunately, I never learned another language. And certainly Latin is no longer spoken, as we all know. It is a dead language. And not even the Catholic Church really uses it that much anymore. So it's very sad. But that is one thing I'm very disappointed in myself. I wish I could. I wish I was better at that. But I just, I don't think I have the mind for it. So I apologize to all of our international listeners. This is all I can do for you.

[00:47:12] [SPEAKER_00] Because we, I'm sure this week, once word gets out to the other countries about our special international edition, that our international audience is huge this week. And you've just let them all down.

[00:47:24] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. I think they're all hanging their heads in shame. And they're probably unsubscribing right now. So sorry.

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_00] Well, on that dour note, I hope everybody has a great weekend.

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. It's October. So I hope everyone's enjoying kind of spooky season. And definitely let us know if you have any cases you want us to cover. And, yeah, I'll just stay in touch. I'm loving it because I love the falls. I'm very basic. I'm just, I'm enjoying my life. It's all crisp outside. It's not too hot. It's not too cold. We're walking the dogs. The leaves are changing. I'm in hog heaven. All right. You all take care.

[00:48:02] [SPEAKER_00] Thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email us at murdersheet at gmail dot com. If you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

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[00:48:46] [SPEAKER_00] Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet, and who you can find on the web at kevintg.com.

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