The Delphi Murders: Contempt Witnesses

[00:00:00] In-depth journalism is more important than ever in a complicated chaotic time. That's why we listen to NPR's

[00:00:07] throughline. This is a podcast that appeals us on so many levels. As history buffs,

[00:00:12] we love their historical contextualization of important ongoing issues. As storytellers,

[00:00:18] we love the engaging way they approach and often humanize complicated tales. As news consumers

[00:00:24] who want to stay informed, we love the way they give the story behind the big stories of the day.

[00:00:29] We try to take a similar approach on the murder sheet, and we feel confident that our

[00:00:34] listeners would enjoy giving NPR's throughline a try. We've been going through their entire

[00:00:39] backlog recently, listening to them as we drive to source meetings. One favorite of mine was their

[00:00:44] episode about Andrew Johnson's impeachment. Threwline's coverage didn't disappoint, delving in

[00:00:50] depth into one of history's worst US presidents. They also did an episode which is rather pertinent

[00:00:55] to our work and that was the one they did about the proliferation of conspiracy theories

[00:00:59] and how they've always been part of America's DNA. That's something I think about quite a lot,

[00:01:04] given the creep of misinformation and manipulation in online true crime spaces.

[00:01:10] NPR's throughline is a source we trust. They're all about nuance and depth and unpacking the messiness

[00:01:16] behind outwardly simple stories. Go back in time, learn something new, emerge more knowledgeable

[00:01:22] about today's headlines. Listen now to throughline from NPR, wherever you get your podcasts.

[00:01:52] To catch up on the latest episodes without the ads.

[00:02:52] My name is Ania Kane, I'm a journalist and I'm Kevin Greenley. I'm an attorney

[00:03:12] and this is the murder sheet. We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews

[00:03:18] and deep dives into murder cases. We're the murder sheet and this is The Delphi Murders, contempt witnesses.

[00:04:12] David Hennessy has filed with the court a list of additional witnesses. He may be calling

[00:04:18] in the contempt hearing on March 18th. He's also provided a pretty extensive list of exhibits

[00:04:26] he may be using in that hearing and this offers us a pretty good look at the sort of defense

[00:04:35] they intend to make. It almost seems like if we were all teenagers at one time in our life and

[00:04:45] sometimes when you're accused of something the easiest thing for a teenager to do is point

[00:04:49] at someone else and say he did it too. It seems looking at this, this is a he did it to

[00:04:56] defense and we will get into that and explain what that means as we go along. I think the first

[00:05:01] thing to cover here is the list of witnesses and there's going to be some names on this list

[00:05:09] that will be familiar to you or maybe not if you're not immersed in this mess and the way

[00:05:16] that some of us are. The first witness is Stephen Wood. So that is the real name of a person who

[00:05:26] goes online and calls themselves Skip Jensen and they initially came out to our radar because he

[00:05:34] was a proponent of a theory accusing a young man who had been a witness on the trails that day

[00:05:40] of the homicides. So you know kind of like a reddit figure of like propose very much on one

[00:05:48] side of things in terms of a theory, very vocal without really having any information.

[00:05:55] A couple of other witnesses on this list are Angela Slodowski and Courtney Parsons. And you may

[00:06:02] recall we talked about Miss Slodowski and Miss Parsons on an episode we released a few months ago.

[00:06:09] They're the people who run that discord that has a lot of hateful

[00:06:16] vile, sexist, violent language against others. I believe Courtney Parsons posted a message

[00:06:24] at one point saying that Jason Blair should die. Yeah. And under yeah so we they very much are

[00:06:33] very virulently pro-defense. They sort of morphed out of a group that was committed to the theory

[00:06:40] that Ron Logan was some kind of criminal mastermind living in Carroll County pulling the strings

[00:06:46] to prevent himself from being caught for the double homicide of Abby and Libby. But also got

[00:06:52] busted on a probation violation and you know went to jail anyway. So it's not really a super

[00:06:58] coherent theory, but they're very into it. And Miss Slodowski is the licensed social worker

[00:07:04] who among other things hired a private investigator to surveil prosecutor Nick Booker.

[00:07:10] Or at least certainly claims she did and posted photos that appeared to be of McLean at a high school

[00:07:15] basketball game. So all of these people are actually not from Indiana. I think Woods from Florida,

[00:07:22] Slodowski's from North Carolina and go ahead. And Parsons is from Texas. Here is somebody on the

[00:07:31] witness list who is from Indiana and that is Julie Melvin. Oh yeah yes how do we how do we

[00:07:39] explain Julie I don't know. I think maybe like Indiana nurse who became very invested has some

[00:07:47] tenuous relationship with one of the victim's families but has also dogged the victim's families

[00:07:55] online for a very long time in a way that many would maybe describe as harassment. And is just

[00:08:04] very involved in the case. You know these are all like these people who are in this kind of online

[00:08:10] world when you get very online in the Delphi case there are certain names that kind of pop up a lot

[00:08:17] and so all of these are part of that kind of strange cast of characters, but I think most normal

[00:08:24] people who are not highly online in this space have no idea who we're talking about right now. So

[00:08:30] this is like a little refresher for you. You get to know about some of the weird online stuff that

[00:08:35] we've been aware for a while but frankly haven't cared enough to report about because it's stupid

[00:08:40] mostly. There's a name that frankly I don't know who this is Terry Williams later on the documents

[00:08:48] it suggests that Terry Williams may have some sort of connection with the name secret keeper.

[00:08:56] Jesus, who knows? And then the final name is Matt Hoffman. Okay finally somebody you know

[00:09:04] who actually has a job and that's relevant to this case this is a defense investigator he is

[00:09:11] the former fire official from I believe Hamilton County Indiana and was working as a private

[00:09:19] investigator for the defense team so he very much makes sense as far as you know having

[00:09:26] something relevant to save for this case. And with that said let's start talking about some

[00:09:33] of the exhibits and before we get into the exhibits I think you're going to hear that a lot

[00:09:41] of the exhibits involve Gary Bodette aka fig aka fig solve let's talk about Mr. Bodette.

[00:09:51] Well, we certainly have to give at least a little bit of a caveat here and you know it's

[00:09:58] certainly you know when we're when we're reporting on something like this and we have interactions

[00:10:04] or know some of the people involved sometimes it makes sense before we talk about them to at least give

[00:10:09] you a sense of our dealings with them so that we are acknowledging where we might have our own

[00:10:14] opinions or bias or whatnot. Yeah, and we still have some opinions about him. At one point we had

[00:10:20] him on the program I believe he's also been on true crime garage. Frankly it was an error in

[00:10:25] judgment for us to have him on the show. Yeah, he always struck us as maybe one of the more mature

[00:10:30] YouTubers. YouTube is a bad source for Delphi it's a it's a place that mostly treats it like

[00:10:36] it's a wrestling competition where people you know give a bunch of you know people screaming

[00:10:41] into their cameras about this or that and it's just like uninformed nonsense. He always he seemed

[00:10:48] better than maybe that class of YouTuber but he has a reputation within that community of being

[00:10:57] totally unable to keep a secret. If you tell anything too big or I call it. Let's call let's

[00:11:04] let's call let's call adult Christian names. I'm sick of calling adults by these stupid little

[00:11:10] nicknames that they make up for themselves. I find it embarrassing and I'm not doing it anymore.

[00:11:15] If you tell something to Mr. Budette he has a reputation as being someone who would spread that all

[00:11:21] over the place like most people in Delphi in the Delphi case online but even within that community.

[00:11:26] Yeah, he has a reputation for being having an unusual tendency to do that and to if he thinks he

[00:11:34] has a good relationship with someone important in the case he's going to tell everybody else he can

[00:11:39] in order to make himself look better in order to gratify his ego. He also is someone who

[00:11:48] who tends to jump to conclusions and we we had an experience like that with him where after the

[00:11:58] leak of the crime scene photos he jumped to the conclusion that Ania and I had lied about it and

[00:12:07] that we had some sort of connection to the leak other than what we had disclosed and he went to

[00:12:13] the extent of telling other people this including other podcasters colleagues in the industry.

[00:12:21] Basically trying to smear us with these people and at this time he I don't think it's fair to say

[00:12:30] we had a lot of respect for him but we were friendly with him and he could have called us and we

[00:12:34] could have explained things to him but instead he is trying to smear us in black in our names.

[00:12:40] It's one of those things where people the amount of unprofessionalism you encounter at every turn

[00:12:47] in the online community around this case is stunning and that's I mean people kind of well you know

[00:12:54] why don't you guys do this or that and it's we don't trust anybody that's why we really don't

[00:13:00] you know it you can't you can't because everybody it's so transactional and also there is all of

[00:13:06] this and actually this also speaks to Sivlowski in Parsons because what what fig I think what

[00:13:12] rather what Gary was to the prosecutor they were to the defense there's this like people who are

[00:13:19] in states that are not Indiana who have no journalism background who have no journalism training

[00:13:24] seemingly and who are just kind of basically trying to be like instigators within the case who then

[00:13:31] overstate their connection to one side and say like yeah that you know what me and me and Baldwin

[00:13:37] are you know we're tired or me you know me and Nick the prosecutor you know messaging and it's

[00:13:42] like usually very one sided but it's like cloud it's like the monitor the monetary exchange in this

[00:13:48] community is cloud how how important are you who are you talking to what information can you

[00:13:53] then give your friends who are not as connected so you can seem really cool and it all is just

[00:13:58] very ridiculous it's embarrassing to watch sometimes because people will fall over themselves

[00:14:04] with their like little penny antianetics you know of like some scrap of information that they got

[00:14:10] third hand and like act like that is somehow impressive so with that said let's talk about some

[00:14:17] of the exhibits there's going to be an exhibit containing communications between Gary Boateat aka

[00:14:24] FIG and prosecutor McLean I think it's fair to say that anyone who has much of an online presence

[00:14:34] in the Delphi community has probably seen some of these communications because again Mr.

[00:14:42] Boateat is a person who shares everything and at least based on things he was talking to us when

[00:14:49] we had a friendly relationship with him it seemed to me and this could be incorrect it seemed to

[00:14:55] me that it was more of a one way street where he was sending stuff basically unsolicited to McLean

[00:15:02] and McLean was saying McLean would reply with a line or two back general which is not a leak

[00:15:07] and that would be okay I that would compare that with we mentioned the episode we did that

[00:15:12] dealt with the bizarre behavior of Slidlowski in Parsons that was called the unacceptable will link

[00:15:18] to that in our show notes but in that one of their colleagues a nurse from Michigan named Paul

[00:15:24] Manion sent a message seemingly to Andy Baldwin saying like I have information and he got back a

[00:15:30] response that was friendly and it was a bit long but it was when you really read it it was sort

[00:15:35] of a form response like thanks for letting us know you know we'd like to get more information

[00:15:41] whether you're a prosecutor or a defense attorney you're allowed to get information from other

[00:15:45] people and confirm that you've gotten the information and thank people that's all okay where you run

[00:15:50] into problems where you run into trouble is when you're giving information directly to that person

[00:15:57] and saying hey here's the scoop on the you know like what's going on with this that then then there's

[00:16:02] a problem there's going to be an exhibit containing communications from mr. Bo Dett about prosecutor

[00:16:10] McLean I'm not sure what exactly that would I imagine I imagine what it entails I imagine it's him

[00:16:16] going around bragging to people that he's talking to McLean which again like how embarrassing

[00:16:22] and there's going to be an exhibit that involves another youtuber Anthony Grino

[00:16:28] an episode titled all caps crime nation delphine murders watch and review there's going to be all sure

[00:16:36] that'll be compelling intellectual affair delphine after dark host Rick Snae apparently appeared on

[00:16:44] true crime investigates which I believe is mr. Grino's channel and it's gonna say like that

[00:16:49] that could be it that just sounds like the most generic true crime show of all time

[00:16:54] uh an email from uh Andrew Baldwin to prosecutor Nicholas McLean regarding the professor

[00:17:01] turco report this is the professor who at some point prepared some sort of a report as to whether

[00:17:09] or not there was evidence of odonism at the crime scene next one is Bo Dett's communications with

[00:17:17] Angela Sidlowski although they spell her name Sidowski the seven number seven on the list is

[00:17:24] bohdet's youtube episode redelphine investigation I'm not sure what that means that sounds

[00:17:30] he does a lot of episodes on this he does a lot of episodes on the delphine investigation

[00:17:37] what's next bohdet's communications record staff revelations don't know what court staff

[00:17:42] revelations means yeah I'd be curious about that I'm not sure if too many people have been on

[00:17:49] the edge of their seats about what's happening with the court staff maybe I'm wrong nine uh Bo Dett's

[00:17:57] communications redisqualification of defense council maybe he was speculating about that before

[00:18:02] it happened and they're saying well he must have known that that's what they were doing because he

[00:18:06] was talking to Nick and since he had pattern here yeah mr. Bo Dett seems to be a crucial figure

[00:18:14] in this he is the lightning rod that has developed mostly through I think his own bragging about

[00:18:21] you know his involvement in this case the lightning rod that is basically uh look

[00:18:28] nick McLeanland was talking to this guy and this guy was spreading all this stuff around so

[00:18:33] isn't that basically the same thing as what Baldwin did with Westerman yes that's that's what it is

[00:18:43] and so this is a creation the situation in this uh list it seems to be the hearing is going to

[00:18:51] involve a situation created by mr. Bo Dett and his loose lips mysteries are at the heart of

[00:18:59] everything we do here on the murder sheet but sometimes it's more fun to dive into a fictional

[00:19:05] caper that's why we love the free to download hidden object game june's journey this game is our

[00:19:11] daily escape from waiting round in line getting stuck on hold and just general doldrums it is great

[00:19:18] to be able to just knock out a few levels here and there you get to discover your inner sleuth and

[00:19:24] sharpen your observational skills by finding clues in each level plus it's like dropping

[00:19:30] straight into your own cozy mystery novel you play as june parker an amateur detective with the

[00:19:36] nose for trouble you get to tackle all kinds of bizarre crimes across a series of elegant and memorable

[00:19:43] locales also you have a side hustle decorating your own island estate i love that i bought a swan pond

[00:19:52] she really did download this game for a built-in work break it's a great mental health boost that

[00:19:58] makes you feel accomplished before you get back to tackling whatever task you have at hand and remember

[00:20:04] when you support our advertisers you're supporting our show june needs your help detective

[00:20:10] download june's journey for free today on ios and android

[00:20:15] ophthalmologist dr strouse has seen first hand how the metaverse is helping surgeons practice the

[00:20:23] procedures to treat cataracts cataracts are the primary cause of avoidable blindness he works with a

[00:20:30] virtual reality training platform developed by fundamental vr and orbous international to help

[00:20:35] surgeons develop the muscle memory they need the result more confident capable surgeons and even

[00:20:41] more importantly patients who can see explore more stories like dr strouses at meta dot com slash

[00:20:46] metaverse impact you've got a dead body inspector i may be able to help with that this winter all

[00:20:54] your favorite detectives are streaming on britbox don't miss exclusive new seasons of death in paradise

[00:21:01] there must be something we've missed Vera it wasn't an accident was it love father brown what did

[00:21:06] you look like and more once you start investigating you won't want to stop with door when i say we're

[00:21:12] don't stream your favorite detectives only on britbox start a free trial at britbox dot com uh

[00:21:22] let me see what's next next is uh unfortunately getting into a side uh uh yeah topic but that's

[00:21:28] communication oh re re re just qualification defense count you just mentioned that i seem to recall

[00:21:34] scenes green shots somewhere where he seemed to indicate that he had advanced knowledge of that

[00:21:41] okay but i i can tell our audience that that was very much in the wind i think a lot of people

[00:21:50] were picking up we were hearing that from people and nothing to do with the case who were just

[00:21:54] speculating like we think this may happen i mean and and to give you a sense there's a difference

[00:21:59] between going and getting information where somebody saying i know a judge girl's gonna do because

[00:22:05] she told me at dinner and now i'm telling you and versus hey i'm a lawyer i kind of know how things

[00:22:12] like this work it's a weird situation but she very well may throw them off the case like that those

[00:22:18] are different things and so we try when we're reporting and doing this show to kind of like

[00:22:25] differentiate between what we know because we know we have sources in the case or because we

[00:22:31] have some information from the case or documents from the case versus what people who are experts

[00:22:36] are saying now we all know that miche wasterman supplied the pictures to an individual we've identified

[00:22:45] is our our then share them with mark Cohen and so on uh our subsequently committed suicide

[00:22:54] and we have declined to identify him by nay and with that said what's the next item um documentation

[00:23:01] of the relationship between boh debt are and Cohen so this is suggesting the mr boh debt had some

[00:23:09] sort of a relationship with r yeah i mean like i'm what what exactly the nature of that is

[00:23:15] we don't know it's it's you know it definitely gets more at the heart of the leak issue though

[00:23:26] boh debt sending defense work product to mccleland so first of all if this is true and mr

[00:23:37] boh debt had accessed defense work product the first question is how did mr boh debt access

[00:23:46] defense work product because it leaked from the defense

[00:23:52] the the individuals who have a responsibility to safeguard and protect defense work product is

[00:24:01] the defense team so they admitting to more leaks here i i don't i don't know i don't know

[00:24:08] whether saying about how mr boh debt got that but if mr boh debt leaving aside that if he sends

[00:24:15] something to mccleland i don't see how that is mccleland's fault no i mean that's like being upset with

[00:24:26] law enforcement in this case over like somebody sending in a tip a bunch of times like they were

[00:24:31] in contact with you well they were giving a tip i that's not really the slam dunk i think they

[00:24:37] might want it to be but maybe the stuff in there that looks bad i don't know

[00:24:43] next one is boh debt sit boh debt sending information to mccleland i know he's posting about sending

[00:24:51] information to mccleland i'm looking at number 12 oh i'm sorry i'm all i'm just giving

[00:24:57] a lot of 14 let's let's go back to 12 12 boh debt sending information to mccleland that's very vague

[00:25:04] this list is very strangely organized if that's very vague i have no doubt that mr boh debt sent

[00:25:11] information to prosecute mccleland i don't know if that information was sought by mr mccleland my

[00:25:19] my suspicion is that it was not and my suspicion is that either it was a very little value

[00:25:26] or information mccleland already had available to him one thing that's been

[00:25:31] interesting maybe at times disturbing in this case is you have again people who are

[00:25:36] unaffiliated people like boh debt said lousky manian Parsons who have no connection to the case but

[00:25:44] who have decided that for one reason or another they're very much invested in one side winning

[00:25:49] and that that one side desperately needs their help personally and so it's just been interesting

[00:25:54] it kind of like it's like an ego it's like an ego-sating like let's let you know i'm the only one

[00:26:00] who can help here because like i'm just so invested is this bizarre to me i don't i like

[00:26:06] do these people have jobs like i don't even know the next one is boh debt identifying source

[00:26:12] and delphi investigation what does that even mean well i i can speculate i know at different times

[00:26:20] mr but debt seemed very interesting in communication with us as to trying to identify various

[00:26:27] witnesses oh he did yes yeah that was bizarre and we were always kind of like okay now like

[00:26:33] no it seems odd there's no real benefit from youtubers knowing the names of witnesses in criminal

[00:26:43] cases prior to a trial no really serve anything set possibly intimidate and harass witnesses so i

[00:26:51] don't know if that's what that's what youtubers want so i don't know if that's what is being

[00:26:55] referred to here or not yeah he was constantly asking us to kind of give you initials

[00:27:02] and it was like i mean again we're polite via text and we're not going to be like a you know

[00:27:07] buzz off usually but it was just like why like what's the benefit i think we've even said that at

[00:27:12] one point like we're not really comfortable and obviously prosecutor McLean knows the identity

[00:27:19] of the witnesses so i'm not sure what he yeah well it's just about knowing it's about like knowing

[00:27:24] yourself and then having cloud over other people i mean it's just it's just completely selfish

[00:27:28] and now we can finally get to number 14 now we're now we're at where i thought we were

[00:27:34] bo-debt posting resending information to McLean so that seems to be him publicly telling people

[00:27:40] i'm sending information to McLeanland so it's like more confirmation that there's some kind of

[00:27:44] connection contact there yes 15 bo-debt posting redigging dirt on Baldwin oh so now we're getting

[00:27:53] into you know him functioning sort of as as the sidlowski Parsons manion of the prosecution

[00:28:01] because that's what they're so dasky trying to get dirt on McLean right but dad is trying to get

[00:28:08] dirt on Baldwin and ultimately this trial is not about the character or lack thereof

[00:28:16] of the attorneys ultimately the trial is about the evidence and is there evidence to prove beyond

[00:28:23] a reasonable doubt that which Alan murdered two girls that's what the trial is about but where's

[00:28:29] the fun in that for a bunch of people who are bored out of their minds and spending time working

[00:28:34] out their anger on the internet where's the fun in that then they can't participate then it's not

[00:28:38] a contact sport for them it's it's personal lives or alleged dirt on attorneys is irrelevant

[00:28:46] unless for some reason you can establish that some personal failing from an attorney is affecting

[00:28:52] the quality of their work but how does it involve these people then because i mean we really didn't

[00:28:59] remember this case is all about a bunch of grown adults from out of state who have no business

[00:29:04] being involved in this it's about their needs and making sure that they feel pretty special

[00:29:08] both debt posting regarding working with law enforcement and prosecution again i have no doubt

[00:29:14] that he made those claims the question is how true are those claims and if mr. both debt

[00:29:23] exaggerated those claims as i strongly suspect he did i would encourage him to come forward and admit

[00:29:31] that now this one definitely there's confusingly confusingly word it very can like much of this

[00:29:39] filing frankly i think if this feels like david henna c wrote this in a you know while he was

[00:29:46] running out to get a bus or something so 17 is boh debt email of mccleland asking boh debt to

[00:29:52] delete everything so i'm guessing that that is an email from mccleland to boh debt asking him to

[00:29:59] delete everything is that how you read that or is that is that it's that boh debt emailing mccleland

[00:30:06] to delete everything so i i don't know i i'm going to speculate that's what we're doing here

[00:30:13] so please don't take this yeah this is not inside information folks is anything other than me

[00:30:19] speculating i recall at the time of the leak and immediately after the leak everybody who

[00:30:27] received information from the leak the crime scene pictures in particular were urged by law

[00:30:34] enforcement to delete what they had so if there's an email from mccleland telling boh debt

[00:30:41] to delete things if that email was around the time of the leak of photos i would wonder if mccleland

[00:30:50] was telling mr. boh debt to delete the photos that's actually a really good point i didn't even think

[00:30:55] about that but certainly the way it's phrased here it certainly seems more poised to be like

[00:31:01] to delete everything the defense is on to us they know i've been leaking to you shut it down gary

[00:31:07] what's next uh this one we know shift away from gary boh debt and the saga of you know

[00:31:14] the perils of bragging about your connections with people on the internet and we're now onto

[00:31:19] barber mcdonald of court tv and they're saying you know so it's barber mcdonald on court tv with

[00:31:25] leaked investigation information mccleland email to defense re-professor turk over port

[00:31:31] i that may be there by accident that second part because i think we already had that but there

[00:31:37] there's been a lot of say uh chatter about barber mcdonald has the this report this could only be

[00:31:44] gotten from a leak that means that the prosecution or law enforcement must be leaking so to me when

[00:31:52] we've seen like people talk about specific things like her her drawings of the f tree which you

[00:31:57] know frankly like the accuracy of that has sort of been questioned to be honest um i'm not i'm

[00:32:02] not a very visual person so i mean to me it looks different but some people say it looks similar but

[00:32:07] either way that and like her drawings of like the stick positioning on the bodies you know there's

[00:32:14] but like did she get that while the case was ongoing and sealed or was it just reported now but she got

[00:32:21] it months and four years ago and has been waiting it's unclear and obviously she's not going to

[00:32:27] tell us so it's kind of hard to say that that must be a leak as defined by Richard Allen has been

[00:32:34] arrested and the case is sealed and and there's a protected protective order on all the evidence

[00:32:40] it's it's difficult to say number 19 leaked search warrant affidavit prior to unceiling

[00:32:48] okay so what is the the implication would be that the search warrant for Richard Allen's house was

[00:32:56] leaked to someone prior to it being unsealed who got that did what did we know about that at the time

[00:33:03] that there was possibly a leak of that this is the first time i i've never heard of that before

[00:33:08] i'd be curious about where they got it and they're not even attributing it to anybody in particular

[00:33:12] so i'd be curious 20 sergeant homins communications with Terry Williams in or secret keeper

[00:33:20] Jesus youtubers frank meister and sleuth video youtube the inquisitor true crime claiming leaked

[00:33:28] information from rich allen so more youtubers claiming leaked information i think it's worth

[00:33:36] noting that it is very easy for people on youtube to get in front of their computer cameras and say

[00:33:42] i have a source in law enforcement leaking these things doesn't mean it's true people are telling

[00:33:48] lies on the internet wow i would be curious did any of these people claiming to have leaked

[00:33:55] information did they on their youtube channels use accurate information that was leaked to them prior

[00:34:03] to public release if so then maybe you have something agreed the next one is terry Williams aka

[00:34:10] secret keeper posting about inside information of crime scene and of the investigation so one

[00:34:16] thing that's important to know with the crime scene is that there's been basically speculation

[00:34:20] about every possibility of the crime scene since day one like people of guest knife people of guest

[00:34:29] you know the manner of death that the girls you know that what they actually died from

[00:34:33] people have guessed all sorts of things they've also made up stuff i mean we literally had to

[00:34:38] sit on the phone for like an hour with a woman who once just told us lie after lie about how

[00:34:43] there were like dolls at the scene and sometimes i want to email her and just be like what the hell

[00:34:47] is wrong with you like why did you do that what is what is wrong with you that you're just making

[00:34:52] crap up about the murder of two kids like what is wrong with you but anyways i'm just saying that

[00:34:58] like i guess if somebody have had some insights or it's hard for me to differentiate like somebody

[00:35:05] who has insights and how somebody who just kind of like pieces things together based on like

[00:35:10] looking at the media and then maybe deducing it about how things happened it the differentiator is

[00:35:17] how detailed is the information that this person has how how good of a you know how good of a

[00:35:24] guest or were they or or does it speak to something that's not just guesswork and is actually inside

[00:35:29] knowledge. This next item might be actual inside knowledge. Yes. October 22nd 2022 YouTube video

[00:35:36] of Mr. Bodette discussing his knowledge of a bullet at crime scene and knowledge that a gun was

[00:35:42] found at Rick Allen's house when that information was still under seal in a week before unsealed.

[00:35:48] Now that certainly seems more like a problem for the prosecution because what they're saying here is

[00:35:55] this guy has it here's the date and here's when this should have been known by everyone so it's

[00:36:01] much before that. And we know this guy was in communication with McLean. So that's where you get

[00:36:05] that's where you have the perils I think from from a law enforcement or a prosecutorial perspective.

[00:36:12] And as we've talked about it because there's some risk for the defense too is talking to people

[00:36:17] like this who don't really have like any sort of like credibility or like reason to be into this

[00:36:24] case other than they're kind of just like leering at it on YouTube. The danger of that is then

[00:36:30] you get into a situation like this where even if your conversations with them are relatively innocuous

[00:36:35] if they get something real and run with it then it's going to very much look like you leaked them.

[00:36:42] Email exchange between Judge Grol in attorney Rosie. Reaccidentally misdirected email. I assume this

[00:36:49] is a reference to the bread and woodhouse incident. Yeah. Bodewins email to Judge Grol on 10923.

[00:36:58] Don't know what that's about. List of media dissemination by state actors I guess that's

[00:37:07] saying that people from the state intentionally disseminate information to the media.

[00:37:13] I mean in the past they gave interviews right? I mean like but the issue is when does the gag order

[00:37:21] and when does the protective orders come down. Number 25 is Julie Melvin documents who knows

[00:37:27] what that means. Probably not much. No. No.

[00:37:33] No. In 26 YouTube video titled A Reckoning in Carroll County there's also a list of potential exhibits.

[00:37:41] I will read this and let's see if we can wrap this up on there about February 29th, 2024 March

[00:37:47] 1 2024. The defense received an anonymous call from a woman in Texas claiming to have a

[00:37:52] approximately 240 pages of leaked documents and agreed to provide them. The defense has received

[00:37:58] only a few of those documents all of which appear to be available to the public. Oh man. The defense

[00:38:04] also discovered information from the prof claiming he had delivered two pounds of documents to the

[00:38:09] Indiana attorney general. The defense is continuing to investigate that claim which may result in

[00:38:15] additional exhibits or presumably it may not. Two pounds dang weighing the documents. Not saying

[00:38:22] page count but pounded. That is really yeah I think Hennessy's living through our pain right now

[00:38:29] because we've also had to deal with a bunch of lying idiots online who just will say whatever

[00:38:36] and then when you try to run it down or get them to give you what they're claiming to have nothing

[00:38:41] happened. Nothing happens. It's almost like people are lying for attention. Wow. Who knew?

[00:38:46] I think we need to wrap this up. Any parting thoughts? Well yeah I have parting thoughts. I think

[00:38:52] that the proliferation of especially YouTube but let's be honest, I mean like just general

[00:38:58] like not new media attention on this case has been damaging for both the defense and if any of

[00:39:04] this checks out possibly the prosecution as well because to me it's like you have just people who

[00:39:11] are just not equipped to do this insert themselves in and like claim legitimacy and honestly I used

[00:39:17] to kind of be excited about stuff like this because I was like oh wow YouTube and social media it's

[00:39:22] like democratizing the media we can all be citizen journalists no that's not true. I mean most

[00:39:27] people are just not equipped because they don't have any sort of backing or emotional fortitude

[00:39:33] to do this work in a at all or responsible way so I kind of feel like all of this speaks to

[00:39:39] you know and everybody misses this but if you want to talk about like social media having

[00:39:44] called wrecking havoc on a case look at this and look at what these weird people are doing I mean

[00:39:49] it's like bad I mean I think it's bad for them too. I don't really feel like any of this is coming

[00:39:54] from an emotionally healthy place frankly but I just it's kind of fascinating at the same time

[00:40:00] because you're like what are these people getting out of it other than like a you know an occasional

[00:40:04] sense of importance but mostly a lot of stress and with that said thank you for listening and

[00:40:10] we'll see you tomorrow on an episode of cheat sheet we recorded earlier today. Yes thanks so much

[00:40:16] for listening to the murder sheet if you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover please

[00:40:21] email us at murder sheet at gmail.com if you have actionable information about an unsolved crime

[00:40:31] please report it to the appropriate authorities. If you're interested in joining our Patreon

[00:40:38] that's available at www.patrion.com slash murder sheet if you want to tip us a bit of money

[00:40:47] for records requests you can do so at www.bimeacoffee.com slash murder sheet we very much appreciate

[00:40:57] any support. Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenley who composed the music for the murder sheet

[00:41:04] and who you can find on the web at kevantig.com if you're looking to talk with other listeners about

[00:41:11] a case we've covered you can join the murder sheet discussion group on Facebook we mostly focus

[00:41:18] our time on research and reporting so we're not on social media much we do try to check our email

[00:41:24] but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages thanks again for listening