We discuss some of the more recent filings in the Richard Allen case — including the State's response to the defense's explosive claim that the entire case should be dismissed because of the destruction of exculpatory evidence.
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[00:04:20] who took pictures of crime scene photos
[00:04:24] he says he found lying wouldn't be used against him. So like an immunity thing for just the deposition.
[00:05:40] Yeah, there's all sorts of different options there. But of give fuller context in whatever hearing happens here. Yeah, it will be interesting. Yes. And they all matter of mysteries. It's like becoming the central figure in your own cozy mystery story. Seriously, download this game and enjoy. It's like a built-in work break and gives me a feeling of being decompressed and ready to tackle whatever is next.
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[00:08:25] just after waking up. It's great to play while sitting around waiting for a source She reviewed that and denied it without hearing essentially they were asking I mean correct me if I'm wrong Kevin But they were basically saying like is This even contempt is that basically yeah, like is it and so I guess she thinks it is so They're going forward on that the same day. She also denied another
[00:09:41] Petition from the defense this was the defense counsel's petition for clarification regarding contempt hearing filed by attorney Hennessey reviewed
[00:10:46] filing and it's very interesting in these filings because they often give us little glimpses into the sort of relationship between the councils behind the scenes and it really
[00:10:54] feels like it has certainly deteriorated, not a big shock I'm sure, and that both sides
[00:11:02] are getting frustrated with each other. He's saying that there was a delay in getting it to the replacement council because of actions by Baldwin and Rose. And we knew that based on what Gull said that it would be, you know, the defense council would have to turn over their discovery to the new defense council.
[00:12:22] So that's interesting that he's saying that they didn't really be then twisted around later is what I'm reading into that. And yeah, it seems like it's definitely it's definitely a pretty hostile environment. That's not always the case, believe it or not. I
[00:13:40] think if you talk to prosecutors and defense attorneys, you find out that, well, maybe This is the names of the witnesses and the exhibits they are about the defense they're intending to offer on the 18th, which is going to be focused more towards that side of things. Although I will note, as we mentioned a few minutes ago, Baldwin and Rosie are taking depositions from people like Holman and Rector who are more fact based. So maybe they'll end up injecting some more factual defense into things based on that.
[00:17:43] After those depositions, which have not yet occurred. the motion saying the whole case against Richard Allen should be dismissed. And why did they, why do they believe it should be dismissed? Their argument was that they claim that two interviews were taped over. Essentially those interviews occurred in 2017, close to the crimes
[00:19:02] and Patrick Westfall and Brad Holder.
[00:20:02] but they did not receive the actual recordings. And so their argument was the state has an obligation to give us any evidence that would help
[00:20:12] exonerate our client. That's one of the cornerstones of the way our system works.
[00:20:17] The state has to turn over that sort of material case that has no evidentiary support whatsoever. However, even though the interviews were not evidence, they were not destroyed by the state purposely or in bad faith.
[00:21:41] For those reasons, the state would ask the court to deny the motion and in support states
[00:21:46] the following." All we know is what the defense put forward in the Frank's memorandum. Which that was what it was, but if he's kind of saying like there's not much evidentiary value, it makes me think that like that might indicate that there's not much more in the file about these guys.
[00:23:03] Well then he goes into some detail.
[00:23:06] You may be wondering how did this happen? is saying is this was not malicious. This was not done in an attempt to destroy evidence or information. It was a mistake, maybe an embarrassing mistake. It sounds like someone left the recorder on for too long. I think probably a lot of people make mistakes with
[00:24:20] technology. So yeah, I mean, obviously, it's it 19, 2017, investigators interviewed Patrick Westfall at his home and
[00:25:43] a narrative report has been provided to the defense. The report does not indicate that highly accurate about what exactly the accusations are. Because when we, I mean, we know this in our personal relationships, right? When you kitchen sink, when you just throw everything in the kitchen sink at somebody, when you're mad at them, you end up sending kind of unreasonable. Sometimes sometimes it's better to be very specific, kind of like a, a dagger,
[00:27:00] you know, like you kind of just pinpoint the issue that can be an
[00:27:04] effective argument strategy as, because otherwise. So in other words, if Holder and Westval had information that would tend to exonerate Richard Allen, the fact that earlier interviews with them were lost is not aull, who, but like, who is the arbitrator of what is exculpatory evidence and what is just stuff in the case? Well, in this filing, but Cleveland goes into some detail about what he thinks should be
[00:29:42] considered exculpatory and what shouldn't be considered as exculpatory evidence is a very narrow class of evidence uncovered during an investigation into a crime that tends to establish a criminal defendant's innocence. That it, then I've destroyed exculpatory evidence. Right. But, I think it's important to remember when talking about this, that we are talking about a motion to dismiss the case. And ultimately, that's the outcome if the defense wins
[00:33:40] that.
[00:33:41] So you would imagine that that would
[00:33:43] have to be a pretty strong piece of evidence for that
[00:33:48] to happen. And that can be something to bring up in court, maybe score points to the jury, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's the key to unlocking a successful motion to dismiss, I think. And so it's not necessarily, you know, doesn't necessarily mean that you don't bring it up, maybe you got to try it, see what works, but it also doesn't seem-
[00:35:02] Make a record.
[00:35:03] Right.
[00:35:04] Exactly. there in Fort Wayne. So we're very, we're very excited to drive up there at 2am just for the grilled cheese. It's well worth it. So thanks for listening, everybody. Thanks so much for listening to the murder sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email us at murder sheet at gmail.com. If you have actionable