The Delphi Murders: The Implosion of the Ricci Davis Theory

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[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_02] So Nick McClellan just now filed his response to some recent filings made by defense attorney Andrew Baldwin in the Richard Allen case, more specifically filings that Mr. Baldwin made concerning a theory regarding prisoner Ricky Davis, Ricky Davis. And this is McClellan's response to them.

[00:03:16] [SPEAKER_02] You may recall that when we covered Mr. Baldwin's original filings in this, we said flatly that their Ricky Davis story was unimportant and not worth your time.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_02] And that has been proven correct. I do think though, that there is a value in listening to how it has been proven to be incorrect and dissecting it as almost as a lesson and something we should all remember going forward when we consider filings from these particular attorneys or actually from Mr. Baldwin. And I believe he filed this by himself.

[00:04:21] [SPEAKER_02] That the people who have been following the defense filings would have learned a long time ago that at the very least, you should be highly skeptical of them because they do have a tendency to implode. And at some point you should realize that don't put your credibility on the line and you should wait and wait for the inevitable implosion of said theories.

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_02] But the fact of the matter is they won't learn that lesson. Maybe a few will.

[00:04:53] [SPEAKER_05] They don't care about the truth. I mean, they just want to be right. They just want to be on the side and treat this like a stupid football game. I mean, it's...

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_02] I think what's going to happen is this Ricky Davis nonsense has been completely discredited today as we will discuss. But what's going to happen is that a week or a month from now, Baldwin or someone working with him or someone shilling for him will come up with another ridiculous outlandish theory. And people will be all, bro, this is it. This is it.

[00:05:26] [SPEAKER_02] And they will have completely forgotten this team's long history of pulling nonsense like this. So one of the things that I'd really like to stress is please don't do that. Please remember what this team has a history of doing. Please remember to be skeptical. I think most of the most, if not all of the listeners of that of this program learned that lesson about the defense a while ago.

[00:05:51] [SPEAKER_02] I feel angry that we've all had to waste our time on this obvious nonsense. But I do think there is a value in dissecting it and just proving how ridiculous it is.

[00:06:06] [SPEAKER_05] I agree. Let's get to it. My name is Anya Kane. I'm a journalist.

[00:06:11] [SPEAKER_02] And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney. And this is The Murder Sheet. We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews and deep dives into murder cases. We're The Murder Sheet.

[00:06:24] [SPEAKER_05] And this is The Delphi Murders, the implosion of the Ricky Davis theory.

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_05] So I guess to start off with, we're going to talk about Nicholas McClellan's filing. Of course, that's the Carroll County prosecutor. It's the state's response to defendant's motion to preserve and produce specific evidence. As Kevin said, that all had to do with this Ricky Davis theory. The defense was putting out this prison house snitch named Ricky Davis. It's got a history of methamphetamine dealing, forgery, theft.

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_05] So that was their new star witness that they knew about prior to Richard Allen's trial, but they instead did not do anything with him. But now it's a big deal, I guess.

[00:07:49] [SPEAKER_02] And his story plainly made no sense just on the face of it.

[00:07:52] [SPEAKER_05] We had some communications with him, but he ended up threatening us and blocking us because I think someone told him who we are.

[00:08:00] [SPEAKER_02] And he's a very charming gentleman. Very charming. We also had some interaction with Keck and Klein, which we talked about on an episode that I believe came out Monday. And I believe... That's in here. That's in here. So we're in this one.

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_05] We're in this one somehow. So, yeah, let's talk about this document. It's pretty short compared. It's about like four pages altogether with, you know, a fifth page as a signature.

[00:08:23] [SPEAKER_02] But I want to read point three in this document. Quote, the state has outlined this in previous filings, but discovery is evidence in a case that the state intends to use at trial or evidence that tends to exonerate the defendant. Referred to as exculpatory evidence. Not all information gathered in an investigation is discovery. End quote.

[00:08:51] [SPEAKER_02] I think that is tremendously important. So if I called up Nick McClellan and said, this crime was committed by Richard Allen working with a gang of Sasquatches, he's not going to use that in court. And it also doesn't exonerate Richard Allen. So there's no reason to turn it over to the defense.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_02] Now, if someone calls up and has information that would tend to exonerate Richard Allen, that would be considered discovery.

[00:09:24] [SPEAKER_05] Right. So that makes perfect sense. It's kind of sad that he has to explain this in a legal filing because, you know, one would think that people who are trained to do this would already know that. But here we are.

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_02] Yes. So the main thing to remember is it's discovery that needs to be turned over if McClellan believes he's going to use it in trial or if it tends to exonerate the defendant.

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_05] OK. Yeah.

[00:09:53] [SPEAKER_02] If it doesn't meet that criteria, one of those two things, it doesn't need to be turned over.

[00:09:58] [SPEAKER_05] No, obviously not. So let's get into some of these additional points.

[00:10:03] [SPEAKER_02] OK. So you want to read?

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_05] It's very blunt. How about I read four through five or four through six? OK. And I'm paraphrasing a little bit to get rid of the awkward that's in numbers. Quote, most of what Ricky Davis told attorney Andrew Baldwin is false. End quote. Quote, attorney Andrew Baldwin had an opportunity to fact check the information that Ricky Davis provided him, but instead chose to put the information in a public motion without verifying its truthfulness. End quote. So that's what he's specifically referring to.

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_05] And I'll go on a little bit. There was there is discussion from Davis about sending the state eight letters that he wrote. So what McClellan clarifies is that this man only sent three letters on October 4th, 2025, on October 15th, 2025 and on October 21st, 2025.

[00:10:57] [SPEAKER_02] OK. So there's a typo there.

[00:10:59] [SPEAKER_05] There's a typo there. So it was the 20th, 2024. Then that wouldn't be.

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_02] Because it's not yet October 2025.

[00:11:05] [SPEAKER_05] Oh, wait. Yeah. We went forward in time. OK. Now I'm tripping.

[00:11:09] [SPEAKER_02] Whether you're an attorney for the defense or the prosecution, no one is immune to typos in legal findings.

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_05] As I was thinking that, I was like, wait, has that happened yet? So this was all in October of 2024 is the important thing.

[00:11:22] [SPEAKER_02] So he basically, Ricky Davis, sent three letters to the prosecution, all of which were sent in October of 2024.

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_05] Was there something going on in October of 2024?

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_02] I don't remember.

[00:11:35] [SPEAKER_05] I kind of blacked that all out.

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_02] That's when the trial was going on. That's when jury selection was happening.

[00:11:43] [SPEAKER_05] So October 15th and October 21st were jury selection and the trial were underway. October 4th is right before that all gets underway.

[00:11:51] [SPEAKER_02] Can I say, I'm full of old sayings today. There is, McClellan is saying Baldwin did not fact check this information. Isn't there an old saying among reporters that some stories are just too good to check?

[00:12:06] [SPEAKER_05] Yes.

[00:12:07] [SPEAKER_02] What does that saying mean?

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_05] That means sometimes you want something to be true because it's such a good entertaining yarn or just useful to you in your career that you could not bear for it to turn out to be wrong. So you don't do your due diligence in terms of verifying it and you just run it. So if somebody runs up to me and tells me, Anya, your dog Lanny is flying around like Crypto the super dog. Maybe I just get so excited. Wow, this is going to, you know, I'm going to be a star after this for some reason.

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_05] I guess this is a hot story for me. And I'm just going to report it. And maybe I don't peek outside to look and see if she's really flying around in the skies.

[00:12:47] [SPEAKER_02] And meanwhile, I'm just excited that Anya knows who Crypto is.

[00:12:50] [SPEAKER_05] That's your fault. That's your fault, sir.

[00:12:54] [SPEAKER_02] That's your privilege.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_05] But anyway, so that it's that I think can be an I think that can afflict all of us. Sometimes we really want something to be true. So we kind of don't really do our due diligence. We're all guilty of that as humans. One would hope that attorneys in a serious criminal matter would not be guilty of that.

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_02] That has been, though, a consistent pattern in the filings from this defense team. I keep on saying defense team, but the filing in question was only signed by Andrew Baldwin. So I'll say it's been a problem with the filings of Andrew Baldwin.

[00:13:29] [SPEAKER_05] I think it's fair to say with the defense team. I mean, like, let's not forget the entire record of this case. But for right now, we're talking about right now we're talking about Andrew Baldwin.

[00:13:37] [SPEAKER_02] There's a number of times that he and his associates said things in filings that were later proven to be untrue. And their excuse was, well, somebody just told us this. And at some point, you know, you're not some helpless dupe, not some hick in the big city who's getting rolled by con men. You know, take responsibility. You're supposed to be a skilled attorney.

[00:14:02] [SPEAKER_02] Do your due diligence and don't waste the court's time and the public's time with stuff that is so easily proven to be nonsense.

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_05] One thing I always hear is people say, well, they're just throwing things at the wall to see what sticks. It would be helpful to do that prior to trial because then you could come up with the most effective theory. Or if you're going to do that, do it effectively and don't go over your skis. So, you know, I can understand that strategy, but that's not been effectively wielded here in my view because, first of all, they lost. And second of all, you know, if you're going to do that, at least have the facts mostly back up what you're saying here. That just hasn't been happening in this case.

[00:14:41] [SPEAKER_02] Okay. So as I'm looking at this document, the mistake with the dates is made pretty consistently. I think as Anya and I read from it, just for the sake of not confusing people, let's use the correct dates. But I acknowledge there are some incorrect dates in here.

[00:15:02] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah. I think it's pretty much all 2025. So obviously none of this happened in the future. This has all happened in the past. Just I think that's important to clarify. But we're just going to correct it.

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_02] Although some of this does seem like it's... Sometimes I'm like, what's going on, man? Yeah, it's a post-apocalyptic legal thriller.

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_05] How long have we been out of it?

[00:15:22] [SPEAKER_02] So, quote, the state was able to recover two of the three letters sent from Ricky Davis, the letter sent on October 4th, 2024, and the letter sent on October 21st, 2024, herein attached, end quote. So in a minute, we're going to do our best to read those letters. It's hard to read his handwriting.

[00:15:42] [SPEAKER_05] It's kind of beautiful handwriting in a way, but it is hard to read. And also, he's an incoherent writer, so that doesn't help.

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_02] So we'll try to read those later. But for right now, let's just stick with this filing. I'm going to get back to what Mr. McClellan has to say. Quote, the letter dated October 4th, 2024 is titled Information on Kagan Klein and Richard Allen. The letter goes on to implicate Richard Allen in the murders, stating that he set up the meeting with the girls.

[00:16:12] [SPEAKER_02] He is the one that killed the youngest girl and that once the girls were killed, Richard Allen moved the bodies, end quote.

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_05] Oh, wow. That's so exculpatory.

[00:16:20] [SPEAKER_02] So in the letter, he accuses Andrew Baldwin's client of murder or being involved in a murder.

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_05] The bold move by Baldwin. Maybe he's going to circle back around to saying Allen's guilty. I mean, like, where are we going here?

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_02] So Andrew Baldwin and this defense team put all of their chips on Ricky Davis and Ricky Davis, his original story was Richard Allen was guilty. So that's embarrassing. That's almost as embarrassing as putting all your chips on Odinism and losing that. Now they put all their chips on Ricky Davis and lost that.

[00:17:01] [SPEAKER_05] This is making Odinism, dare I say, I mean, I'm not going to say it, but this, yeah, this.

[00:17:09] [SPEAKER_02] And it's all an unforced error. It's all an unforced error. There was, they lost the trial. They didn't need to file these ridiculous motions saying, oh, the story from Ricky Davis sounds pretty interesting. So.

[00:17:25] [SPEAKER_05] They could have looked into all of it before they did anything. Yeah. Could have really investigated it.

[00:17:30] [SPEAKER_02] And we're getting into that a little bit later here.

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah. No one made them do this. They chose to do this to themselves.

[00:17:36] [SPEAKER_02] Back to Mr. McClellan. Quote. In the letter dated October 21st, 2024, Ricky Davis states that Ron Logan, Kagan Klein and Richard Allen are responsible for the murders. He goes on to state that attorney Andrew Baldwin is an ignorant lawyer who was hinting me to lie for him and his client saying that I should know how it is. End quote. So we now have. Why?

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_02] We now have basically Ricky Davis saying that Andrew Baldwin was trying to suborn perjury here.

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_05] Oh, my gosh. How does this happen? How do you do this? And can I just say this? I think it's hilarious. I mean, I think this is hilarious because I think they this is the I mean. They did this to themselves. But at the same time, can you imagine if for some reason McClellan had lost his mind right before trial and said, wow, Ricky Davis, my new star witness.

[00:18:43] [SPEAKER_05] And had used this guy like that would have never happened. But let's just say that happened. We I think any reasonable person would have been able to say that doesn't seem fair. We're going to read the letters. They don't add up. And just because you think Alan's guilty doesn't mean you should just use anything. That doesn't mean that this is a good confession or I don't I don't believe, you know, like, you know what I'm saying?

[00:19:06] [SPEAKER_05] Like, it's it's despicable for anyone to be using somebody with this little credibility, with this zero credibility at this point.

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_02] And let's not get past the point. Let's not bury the lead again. Ricky Davis is saying that Andrew Baldwin was hinting me to lie for him and his client.

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_05] Well, if we're supposed to believe that Ricky Davis, you know, heard all this stuff from Logan and Klein and the whole Delphi gang, then I mean, if we're in the if we're in the business of believing everything he says, I suppose we should take that very seriously.

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_02] If if I thought Ricky Davis was credible, I would find that very disturbing because it would be incredibly serious for an officer of the court to basically be hinting or suggesting that someone should lie for a client.

[00:19:52] [SPEAKER_05] You know how it is, Kevin.

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_02] But I don't want to be inconsistent here. I think Ricky Davis is a liar.

[00:20:00] [SPEAKER_05] I do, too.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_02] I think he is full of it. I think he's a liar. So I would not necessarily I would not necessarily say that Ricky Davis is telling the truth here.

[00:20:11] [SPEAKER_05] I can't wait to see the contortions about this one. You know, he's telling the truth about the people we don't like and want to be guilty, but he's not telling the truth about the people we like and sort of worship in our weird fandom. Right. Is that going to be the move? That's a heck. Well, that's heck of a thing. All right. What's next?

[00:20:31] [SPEAKER_02] Quote. The state has diligently searched all the evidence involved in this case. The state cannot locate or even verify that the second letter sent from Ricky Davis was received by the office. End quote.

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_05] Oh, no. And nothing of value was lost.

[00:20:47] [SPEAKER_02] And then there's a paragraph. We remember Baldwin filed an affidavit from somebody saying, hey, I called the office and they said they'd receive some letters. And McClellan says, yeah, this guy called. But no number of letters was discussed. And yeah.

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_05] So three instead of eight. And Alan's guilty in them. At least one of them. That's good. And Baldwin's possibly supporting perjury, according to Davis, who, again, we're supposed to take very seriously as a very serious witness.

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_02] Let's read point 14.

[00:21:21] [SPEAKER_05] Quote. The state's response to the motion to correct error. The state referred to the evidence that Ricky Davis supplied to attorney Andrew Baldwin is not matching the physical evidence found at the scene. The state therefore finds that information that Ricky Davis supplied is not credible. End quote. Well, that we will talk more in detail about that, I think, when we get to the letters.

[00:21:44] [SPEAKER_05] And then, quote, there is zero evidence found on the in the investigation that Ron Logan and Kagan Klein knew each other or shared or exchanged child pornography. End quote.

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_02] And that is relevant because that is another aspect of the bizarre story that Ricky Davis told.

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_05] As I said last time, what the what Ricky Davis was contending was that Kagan Klein was acting as a basically an I.T. guy for local pedophiles, helping them with their burner phones, helping them service things and make sure that they their burner phones of CSAM were child sexual abuse materials were working in order. But but that doesn't make any sense because that's stupid and there's no evidence of it. So just saying it doesn't make it true. So there you go. Mystery solved.

[00:22:26] [SPEAKER_02] Can you read point 16 and 17?

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_05] Sure thing. Quote, the state was able to obtain recent communications between Kagan Klein and various civilians where Kagan Klein denies the allegations set out by Ricky Davis here and attached to state's exhibit for. End quote. Quote. Further in these text communications, Kagan Klein states that Ricky Davis, quote, is an idiot. I've only talked to him maybe two times. He's one of those guys in prison that tries to write all different prosecutors and get time cuts on people's case. It's laughable. End quote.

[00:22:59] [SPEAKER_05] Kagan reiterates this point in several of the responses that he texts. End quote.

[00:23:04] [SPEAKER_02] In the interest of disclosure, at least one of the civilians that Kagan Klein was communicating with was us. And I believe we disclosed that and those communications in the program we released on Monday.

[00:23:19] [SPEAKER_05] Monday feels like it was five years ago.

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_02] That always happens in Delphi. So, and I think the actual quote that McClellan used in this document comes from one of the texts that he sent to us.

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_05] He may have sent it to other people in sort of like a copy and paste statement sort of thing. But yeah, it's that we did get that. And he's saying he doesn't know him. And that Ricky Davis seems to be very much trying to immerse himself and ingratiate himself into numerous different cases, which is interesting.

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_02] Point 18, quote, as the court can see from States Exhibit 1, Ricky Davis did send several other letters out to other attorneys, which adds credence to statements that Kagan Klein made about Ricky Davis's behavior. End quote. So when Kagan Klein told us and other people that Ricky Davis is known for writing other attorneys and prosecutors, there's evidence for that.

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_05] That was true.

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_02] So unlike Ricky Davis's statements, what Kagan Klein had to say was actually backed up by evidence and facts. And what a world we live in when Kagan Klein is more credible than the defense's star witness.

[00:24:24] [SPEAKER_05] That's upsetting. Kagan Klein is a credibility issue, but ultimately.

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_02] To say the least.

[00:24:28] [SPEAKER_05] Ultimately, you have to look at, you know, whose statements are backed up by what is actually happening.

[00:24:34] [SPEAKER_02] You want me to point 19?

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_05] Sure. Quote, attorney Andrew Baldwin could have requested this information from the Department of Corrections to verify or debunk Ricky Davis's statements before he made his filing, but chose to file the motion without verifying the allegations. End quote. I wonder why.

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, this information is available. It would have been very easy for Mr. Baldwin to find out how many letters that Ricky Davis sent out. I don't know why he didn't do it.

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_05] Because they don't care about the truth and they know that basically mainstream press and social media are just going to run with whatever they say until it inevitably fizzles out.

[00:25:11] [SPEAKER_02] Well, Anya, you know how it is.

[00:25:15] [SPEAKER_05] Jeez. I do know how it is. Yeah, go ahead.

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_02] I was going to get back to the document.

[00:25:21] [SPEAKER_05] I was going to say it goes on to say Baldwin interviewed Ricky Davis.

[00:25:26] [SPEAKER_02] Quote, attorney Andrew Baldwin, by his own admission, interviewed Ricky Davis on March 27th, 2024. Attorney Andrew Baldwin had every opportunity before trial to depose Ricky Davis and every opportunity to call him as a witness at any hearing or at the trial and chose not to. In fact, from James Winter's statements to this office, James Baldwin had in Andrew Baldwin had, in fact, subpoenaed Ricky Davis to test file at the trial for Richard Allen. End quote.

[00:25:55] [SPEAKER_05] So what does it mean? I mean, is that common, Kevin, when you have people subpoenaed for a trial, but maybe they don't get called? That's not necessarily abnormal, right?

[00:26:04] [SPEAKER_02] No, I think what's important here is it's clear evidence that Andrew Baldwin was in contact with Mr. Davis, that charming gentleman. And he knew what Mr. Davis's story was. He had opportunity to ask Mr. Davis for details about that story. And he had an opportunity to call him as a witness if he chose.

[00:26:30] [SPEAKER_02] So this is the point, I think, is this is not something that caught Baldwin by surprise. He knew about this witness. He knew about this witness's story. He'd even interviewed this witness.

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_05] So it's not some witness that was uncovered after the trial was over. And oh, my gosh, we need to look into this. It's like, yeah, I know this guy. You know, let's let's subpoena him. Let's not call him a trial for whatever reason. Not clear why they did not do that. If this was so frickin important.

[00:27:02] [SPEAKER_02] You want to read 22, 23?

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_05] Quote, attorney Andrew Baldwin now wants to present these statements from Ricky Davis as irrefutable proof without any evidence of corroboration or corroboration to back up the statements. End quote. Quote, Ricky Davis's statements to attorney Andrew Baldwin do not match the statements that he made in the letters he sent to the state. In those letters, he does not say Richard Allen is innocent or not involved. Quite the opposite. He says Richard Allen participated in the murders and is guilty. End quote. I just want to say something. Have you ever met a person?

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_05] I'm sure we've all run into people like this. I'm sure we've all dealt with somebody who will just tell everyone what they want to hear. Like at all times, they're just, you know, they're cozying up to you. So suddenly they're backing up your opinion and telling you, yeah, no, you're right about that. That's absolutely right. And then you find out that they're doing the same with other people. You know, they're two faced, in other words.

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_05] And to me, Ricky Davis just strikes me having having read his correspondence with the state and we'll go into more detail. But he just strikes me as the kind of guy who's trying to tell both sides what he thinks they want to hear. And the prosecution side is smart enough to disregard it because, first of all, they don't need it. And second of all, it's very likely just balderdash.

[00:28:22] [SPEAKER_05] And the defense side, because they will basically work with anyone and do anything regardless of how silly, embraces this guy as a true whistleblower and hero. I think he strikes me as someone who wanted to insert himself into the case either way and was essentially almost like a YouTuber workshopping different theories to see which drew the biggest audience and the biggest response. All right. You guys like Richard Allen is guilty? No.

[00:28:50] [SPEAKER_05] What about Logan? Klein? Logan and Klein? Logan, Klein and Richard Allen? No. OK, well, withdraw that last one. Let's let's go with Logan and Klein. That's what I'm like. That's what he strikes me as. It's bizarre. And it's it's not I don't understand it. I think if Logan and Klein had been of interest to the defense, it's surprising that they really seem to only focus on Odinism and did not put much effort in investigating those angles.

[00:29:20] [SPEAKER_02] And again, I find it interesting that apparently Mr. Davis's story underwent substantial revision after he had some form of repeated contact with Mr. Baldwin. And Mr. Davis says Mr. Baldwin hinted that he wanted him to lie. I find that interesting because the man's story changed pretty drastically after such contact with Mr. Baldwin. But and here's the thing, I don't know what to think.

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_02] I do want to stress Ricky Davis has a serious credibility problem, even though Mr. Baldwin would tell us otherwise.

[00:29:54] [SPEAKER_05] Well, that's the wild thing. Mr. Baldwin is telling us to believe the guy who's accusing him of being dishonest and basically trying to suborn perjury. Yes. Which is something that's like, you know, you're kind of not supposed to do as a lawyer. So it's like it's just kind of a bit of an issue. So it's just it's like, you know, I think a smart attorney, attorney who's being strategic would there's a concept.

[00:30:22] [SPEAKER_05] Like, I understand being curious about what Davis has to say and kind of wanting to explore more, seeing if there's anything there. I understand that. I think we're all curious and maybe you want to go down that path. But what Mr. Baldwin did by putting this on legal filings and putting so much weight on it is essentially set himself up to look like a complete fool here. And I don't know why you would do that, because you don't have to. You could just see how it plays out.

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_05] And then when you find out that he's been saying stuff like this about you, maybe you back off. And you can you can leave with some grace. But, you know, I I guess this is part of their zealous defense, right?

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_02] I don't know why he put himself in this position, Mr. Baldwin. I don't know why all of the people who worship at the altar of these defense attorneys put themselves in this position. I think a lot of them really imagined incorrectly that this Ricky Davis stuff was huge. McClellan couldn't respond to it. This is it, folks. How many times do these people have to go through moments where they think, oh, this is it? This is going to happen. Here's our moment. And it never happens.

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_05] They're like one of those cults where they think they're going to die constantly in the apocalypse. Right.

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah.

[00:31:32] [SPEAKER_05] You know, set the calendar, set the dates. Oh, it didn't happen. New date.

[00:31:36] [SPEAKER_02] Richard Allen is guilty. He killed those girls.

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_05] Well, also, yes. But here's here's one big mistake that I think a lot of these people make, too. I think tying questions about his guilt or innocence to your fandom over to defense attorneys who did not do a very good job in my mind. I think they didn't. I think they did an adequate job in the sense that I don't think they were ineffective counsel. I didn't think their strategy was good.

[00:32:01] [SPEAKER_05] But I think tying hitching your star to their wagons was was not a good plan because I think like there was a reasonable argument to be made at some point where, like, did they do a good job or they just clowns? And maybe maybe that's why he got convicted. He can be innocent, but his attorneys were clowns. But they can't say that because they're not going to go against the defense daddies, which is what they call them. I did not just make that up for anyone who's new.

[00:32:27] [SPEAKER_02] But, yeah, the fact that Baldwin put so much credence in the statements of this this charming gentleman, Mr. Davis, is in itself, to my mind, a testimony to his poor judgment and some bad performance as an attorney.

[00:32:44] [SPEAKER_05] I have a question.

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_02] Please do.

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_05] Do you think do you think at this point now that his credibility is under question now that Baldwin's credibility is under question? I'm talking about. Does he back off of this or do they just.

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_02] I don't know. I would have imagined he would have backed off a long time ago.

[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah, good point.

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_02] I don't know. And like I told you, my prediction is a month from now, two months from now, one of the defense alkali is going to find some other ridiculous nonsense. Oh, this is it. This is it, folks. This is our moment. And a lot of people will believe it and say, oh, there's no possible response. And then there'll be a response that tears it all apart. And then a couple of months after that, when that and this is forgotten, there'll be something else. And then maybe a year from now, somebody say, hey, remember Ricky Davis? Maybe that was something after all.

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_02] It's just like an endless circle because Ricky Davis returned to Sturon Logan, who was looked at and dismissed as a serious suspect years ago.

[00:33:38] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah, you're right. It's like it all just keeps coming back in some kind of cycle.

[00:33:43] [SPEAKER_02] And I'm sorry. I'm clearly annoyed.

[00:33:46] [SPEAKER_05] Well, it's stupid. And these people are in.

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_02] I'm not annoyed at you, dear listener. And I'm not annoyed at my lovely and charming wife.

[00:33:52] [SPEAKER_05] Oh, you're so sweet. I hate intellectual dishonesty. I like vigorous defense where no stone is left unturned. This is not that. This is intellectual dishonesty at its finest. And I think I'm embarrassed for the people who put themselves on a limb for these people because it's just, I mean, if you, I guess some people are into looking stupid online, I guess, because I can't really account for it otherwise. I do believe it's mostly true believers. I think there's some cynical creators who exploit them. But I think it's mostly true believers. And it's like, wow.

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_05] Makes me concerned about our educational system, I guess.

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_02] Quote, getting back to the document, quote, evidence that contains allegations that the defendant is guilty with no proof of those allegations is not exculpatory evidence and therefore does not have to be turned over to the defense, end quote. So he is making the obvious point. And again, something that is discoverable is something that is either exculpatory or is going to be used at trial, either one. And if a letter says Richard Allen is guilty and has no evidence for it, that is not exculpatory.

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_05] The way you said that.

[00:34:57] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah.

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah.

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_02] Getting back to the document, quote, there is not a video interview of Ricky Davis that exists within discovery or is within the state's possession. Even if this was evidence, the defense wished to use a trial. It was not newly discovered evidence. The defense knew of Ricky Davis, had interviewed him, had subpoenaed him for trial and chose not to present the evidence to the court, end quote. So again, they knew about Ricky Davis. They had the option to use him in court if they wanted to. They had done an interview with him.

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_02] He was under subpoena and they made the strategic decision. This guy isn't going to help us. And they were right then. So I don't know what changed their mind. But yeah.

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_05] Well, I'm speculating a little bit. I think it's interesting that the trial team did not use Ricky Davis. But now Baldwin alone is acting like he's the salvation that they've been looking for. So I almost wonder where there are disagreements on the ground there. We're not using this. This is useless. And then somebody feels resentful about that not being done. And then let's make Ricky Davis happen.

[00:36:07] [SPEAKER_02] If there was any attorney on the defense team who felt that Ricky Davis's evidence was useless, that attorney was correct.

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_05] That attorney was very correct. And I think I yeah, I don't know.

[00:36:21] [SPEAKER_02] We tried to tell you, dear listeners, that this Ricky Davis stuff was unimportant and not worth your time.

[00:36:26] [SPEAKER_05] Yes. Sweet indication.

[00:36:28] [SPEAKER_02] I don't even think we need that. We deserve much credit for that because I think it was obvious to a lot of people.

[00:36:33] [SPEAKER_05] I don't think we needed to tell most of our listeners that I think most of our listeners kind of picked up on that from just kind of just hearing about the facts of what was being put out there. And, you know, it's it's it's like, yeah, you don't feel good about calling that because it's like, you know, it's the most obvious thing in the world. You know. It's like calling it the law of gravity is going to be in place tomorrow. Like, yeah. OK, thank you.

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_02] Well, the law of gravity, though, would not be in place if you had the powers of crypto, who is Anya mentioned earlier, is a super dog.

[00:37:06] [SPEAKER_05] Unlike our dog. But she's a super nice dog, I guess.

[00:37:10] [SPEAKER_02] Yes. And I'm prepared to have a lengthy discussion about crypto with any.

[00:37:14] [SPEAKER_05] Don't do that. These people are already having to listen to a Delphi motion episode on a Friday. We don't need to do that to them.

[00:37:19] [SPEAKER_02] Read point 27. Sure.

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_05] Quote, further, as the state has mentioned in previous responses, any information pertaining to Ron Logan or Kagan Klein falls under the state's motion in limine concerning third party motive. Defense had three days to present evidence to meet their burden for third party motive. They mentioned Ron Logan, but failed to meet their burden with the court. They chose not to present this evidence in that hearing. They also did not present this evidence when they renewed their motion during the trial.

[00:37:45] [SPEAKER_05] This now seems to be an effort by the defense to use this motion to circumvent their burden concerning third party motive. End quote.

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_02] So what that means is before the trial. The defense had an opportunity in a three day hearing to make a case that Ron Logan was involved with these murders. And if they wanted to use that opportunity, they could have done so and they could have presented this evidence from Ricky Davis if they found it credible. And again, at that time, they knew about Ricky Davis. They had this story.

[00:38:22] [SPEAKER_02] And they chose not to present it. And you would think if they had, excuse me, you would think that if they found his words credible, they would have used it at that time.

[00:38:34] [SPEAKER_05] Talking about this is killing you.

[00:38:36] [SPEAKER_02] It is. I'm falling apart over here.

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_05] It's one of those things where, yeah, whoever threw out the Ricky Davis stuff in the trash during trial had it right. Because if if that had come in, then I mean, wouldn't the letters have come in where he says that he Allen was one of the guilty parties?

[00:38:52] [SPEAKER_02] Well, remember, Anya, the three day hearing was held in August. Right. And the letters came in in October. Right. OK. And those would be the letters where Mr. Davis suggested that Mr. Baldwin wanted him to lie. So we read. Let's read 28, 29 and 30.

[00:39:08] [SPEAKER_05] Sure. Finishing it up. Quote, none of the evidence that the state has gathered from Ricky Davis is exculpatory, nor is it discovery. End quote. Quote, this motion seems yet another attempt by attorney Andrew Baldwin to push a certain narrative to the public, specifically the online world. He seems to file these types of motions with very bold allegations that he neither verifies the information nor does he present any evidence to back up the statements. End quote.

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_05] Quote, it is unfortunate that motions by the defense in this case have come to the point where they present the evidence. And statements from an inmate as fact without any legal or evidentiary support. End quote. Ouch.

[00:39:46] [SPEAKER_02] What do you make of that?

[00:39:48] [SPEAKER_05] Ouch. But fair. I mean, what we've seen, I. I think that pretty much sums it up. I mean, these. This this fell apart. Even quicker than some of the other things. I mean, does anyone remember Professor Jeffrey Turco? Am I the only did that? Did I just like dream that where they're like, this guy agrees with us. This guy is our guy. He's the guy that we're going to. And then like he came out and was like, that's what you're saying about me is not true. I actually agreed with the state police.

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_05] And it was like, why would you go that hard about this without like verifying that the guy is in your corner and like, you know, deposing him and kind of making sure that you agreed with him? Like, why would you do any of that? Just ends up looking completely foolish. And. There's no strategic value to it. There's no I mean, I. The only value to it is that they get a lot of headlines, but ultimately, I don't think that really matters.

[00:40:43] [SPEAKER_05] And I think I mean, I would hope that the media at this point would become more skeptical, but I think that's a little bit too much to ask for. I think I I I don't think having a bunch of headlines running about how Ricky Davis has something bombshell to say. I don't I don't think that really helps them in the end if they don't have actual bombshells to back it up. You know, so I think that's that that's what I think about it. All right. So let's talk about the exhibits.

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_01] Let's talk about those exhibits.

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_05] So states exhibit one is documentation from the Indiana Department of Correction, a special mail queue for Newcastle Correctional Facility. And it's for Ricky Davis, of course. And it talks about the recipients of his mail. I mean, and dates when he's getting stuff. What is, you know, stuff? I mean, much of it is redacted because I imagine much of it has nothing to do with this case.

[00:41:45] [SPEAKER_05] That's appropriate. But there's a that this kind of just goes into that schedule. So we see. October 4th, 2024. He mailed something to Carroll County Chief Prosecutor Office. In Delphi, we see the same thing for. October 15th, 2024 and October 21st, 2024.

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_05] Now, it sounds like either through a mail mix up or whatever. The first one of those did not come in. But. Doesn't matter. Is that fair to say?

[00:42:27] [SPEAKER_01] That's fair to say.

[00:42:29] [SPEAKER_05] And. There are also messages to other attorneys on here. So. Is that just in reference to what Kagan Klein passed on to us and others?

[00:42:40] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, I think that's to establish the credibility of Kagan Klein.

[00:42:44] [SPEAKER_05] He wrote to the U.S. Southern District Court. And. Some. Different. Law firms. The Huntington City Superior Court. Yeah. Just. That's. So that backs up what Kagan was claiming. It's pretty much it for this exhibit, right?

[00:43:06] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah. And again, isn't it a sad state of affairs when Kagan Klein is more credible than the defense's star witness, the charming gentleman, Mr. Davis? Should we move on to exhibit two?

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_05] Yes. I think we should try to read this thing. But. Keep in mind. His handwriting, while delicate and certainly like. I wouldn't call it neat, but it's interesting to look at. But. But he's kind of incoherent. And also it's just it's hard to read. So we might, you know, like we're going to try our best here.

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_02] Anya's going to try her best. Fun. No, I'm one of those guys. I always have trouble reading handwriting unless it's lettered like a comic book, like a comic book story about crypto. And this is not lettered that way. So. I can understand. I can read some of it, but not all of it. I can try.

[00:43:56] [SPEAKER_05] I'll try. Just if I get it wrong, I'm sorry. I just apologize in advance.

[00:44:02] [SPEAKER_02] Anya's looking at your phone. I just want to. Anya, we also have it on a bigger screen.

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_05] I know, but I like having it right in front of my face on my phone. So. All right. So I'm going to do this and we'll. We can just pause me at any time if you want to talk about something. OK.

[00:44:14] [SPEAKER_01] OK. So quote.

[00:44:15] [SPEAKER_05] Quote information on Kagan Klein and Richard Allen. Dear chief prosecutor. My name is Ricky Davis. I am incarcerated at the Newcastle Correctional Facility. I was uncomfortable writing for fear of not being taken serious. However, this has to be heard. There are several aspects that at first may seem all over the place. However, if I don't explain it all, you'll get confused. So forgive me. I'll do my best here.

[00:44:46] [SPEAKER_05] Back some years ago, a man named Ron Logan come here to Newcastle and I daily commiserated with him. And a lot of things he opened up about made my ex-girlfriend contact the FBI trying to do the right thing, say the least. Fast forward until now today.

[00:45:11] [SPEAKER_05] There also has been another guy who was transferred here from another prison back in early March. 2014. I'm assuming that's 2024. By the name of Kagan Klein. For the last six months, he seemed to need a friend and quickly. Very recklessly.

[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_05] Begin to talk of beating the system and glad it is Richard Allen who is catch up. However, feared he would run his mouth. End quote. I just want to say, I don't think you're beating the system when you're Kagan Klein and you get sentenced to four decades in prison for CCM charges, which typically do not carry such a strong sentence. So I would just a little note there.

[00:46:03] [SPEAKER_05] Back to this quote. Note, note, I am in a protective custody unit with 98% child molesters. And trust me, the people speak and brag on their cases as it is a cool thing. I am here on drug charges. However, Kagan Klein assumed I must have a sex case and begin talking. And I slowly took information as he opened to build trust with me.

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_02] I'm going to interrupt you. I think it said appeared.

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_05] Oh, yeah.

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_02] As he appeared to build trust with me.

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_05] Thank you. Quote. Oddly, since a earlier report by my ex-girlfriend was made regarding Mr. Logan, out of nowhere, this lawyer pops up to visit me, Richard Allen's lawyer Baldwin or something, wanting to know if I would come testify on R. Allen's behalf regarding Logan.

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_05] I told him no because I already planned on contacting you, knowing the information to do with Klein. I never told him about Klein because the information involved Richard Allen, Kagan Klein and Ron Logan, although he has now passed. As you know. I will now explain what Klein has told me and I'll share the.

[00:47:26] [SPEAKER_02] Evidence.

[00:47:27] [SPEAKER_05] And I'll share the evidence he informed me of. So you see I'm doing this in good faith. Kagan told me him and his dad were working a hustle from this back page, making big money from child images. Every six months they bought burner phones for clients and R. Allen and Logan were two of them and received new phones from Kagan. From what I was told, they done a lot of trading too.

[00:47:58] [SPEAKER_05] I am told they all had their hands in this murders and feels relieved someone has the fall who isn't going to talk. This Allen guy sold a firearm to Kagan for these burner phones he supplied. Kagan somehow had the Abby girl victim take pictures of herself and traded them between the three.

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_05] The three Allen, Kagan, Logan, Richard Allen set up meeting the girls with Logan. However, they met at Logan's home drinking. Logan and Kagan met up with the girls as Allen was at the farm. Kagan had the firearm and Logan had a carpet knife to scare the girls. They walked the girls back to the house where Allen waited. I was unsure about. Okay. Okay. Stop. Okay.

[00:48:57] [SPEAKER_05] I'm just getting mad. Abby didn't have a phone.

[00:49:01] [SPEAKER_02] There's so much provable nonsense here. I'm sure most of us who are listening to this.

[00:49:09] [SPEAKER_05] I'm getting infuriated. I'm sorry.

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_02] Have a pretty good working knowledge of the case. And you can point out a number of obvious errors in that tale. And it explains why McClelland or whoever else actually read this letter at the time. It explains why they didn't take this letter terribly seriously, nor should they have. They had more important things to do.

[00:49:30] [SPEAKER_05] I feel like my eyes are going to roll so hard that I'm going to black out or something. I mean, this is just, this is offensive.

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_01] I'll get back to it. Sure.

[00:49:41] [SPEAKER_05] Okay. Where was I?

[00:49:43] [SPEAKER_02] I was unsure.

[00:49:44] [SPEAKER_05] Oh, here we go. Quote, I was unsure about the story being a lot of details. However, I pretended interested over time. Here are some details only the killers would know. And make yourself so you can weigh the information out. And maybe yourself so you can weigh the information out. He informed me, him and Alan moved the bodies three times and they were not killed where the girls were found.

[00:50:14] [SPEAKER_05] End quote. Okay. The defense had every opportunity to put on a. Counter expert to major Pat Cicero, who's, of course, the state's crime scene expert. They did not. They put up Dr. Dawn Perlmutter at their three day hearing and she was a disaster. And she doesn't know anything about crime scenes, frankly, from having heard her testimony. They could have picked someone else.

[00:50:40] [SPEAKER_05] And if they had and that person had been credible and was able to testify, yes, they were moved at least twice or three times or however many and they weren't killed where they were found. Then that would back that up. But that's not what happened. The CSIs, Dwayne Datsman, Jason Page, Brian Olahi and Major Pat Cicero were all very adamant based on the excessive amount of blood.

[00:51:04] [SPEAKER_05] And based upon the blood patterns and the amount of blood of the crime scene and you could actually follow the pools of Libby's blood to watch where she walked as she was dying because Richard Allen slit her throat. And you could see from Abby, the sweatshirt saturated with her own blood. Blood wasn't her blood wasn't all over the crime scene, but it was all over her. It was in it was in her clothing. So, you know, no, this doesn't match anything. This doesn't match anything. This is not true.

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_05] OK, let's go back. OK, quote.

[00:51:42] [SPEAKER_01] He said they staged.

[00:51:43] [SPEAKER_05] He said they staged the scene, whatever that means. The youngest girl was kept alive longer and Alan didn't want to kill her. But Kagan made him because it was too late. He said they all got nervous leaving town in their own cars and to the Lafayette to get rid of evidence. I honestly don't see him making all this up.

[00:52:08] [SPEAKER_05] However, if it appears he did for some sick reason, just dismiss this letter. If by chance it seems to meet the evidence you are dealing with, you are welcome to come speak with me. To be honest, I'm only comfortable speaking with you for the moment. Please understand. As. The snitch label. Is real in prison. However, I will talk to you for the time being. P.S.

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_05] I also saved a note from Kagan. He wrote on the back on on on back down lockdown on lockdown that don't say a lot, but he talks a little in it. Well, somewhat if. Let me see. Well, somewhat if you want it. This part's cut off. Let me know if you want it. Let me know. I think that's what it says. OK, so that's the letter that was.

[00:53:05] [SPEAKER_05] This is the letter from October. Force, I think. Which one was the last one then? Or which one was the one that they don't.

[00:53:16] [SPEAKER_02] I think the last one was the one in the middle.

[00:53:17] [SPEAKER_05] OK, the one in the middle. Is that correct? I think I may have misstated that earlier then. But anyways, this is this is one of the. I could be wrong. Well, who knows? Who cares? I'm sorry. So so Alan's involved. There's this cockamamie story that obviously didn't happen and it's stupid. And even he's noting, well, if it doesn't match, then I'll just shut up, which is what he should have done. But he does not have any conscience. So I guess, you know, here we are.

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_02] You want me, in fairness, to try to read this one?

[00:53:44] [SPEAKER_05] I'll do it. I'm in the mindset. I'm locked in now.

[00:53:48] [SPEAKER_02] Just remember, folks, I offered.

[00:53:50] [SPEAKER_05] I'm worried it'll kill you. You were like trying not to cough earlier.

[00:53:56] [SPEAKER_02] This is the letter that Prosecutor McClellan received on October 23rd, 2024, as the trial was ongoing.

[00:54:04] [SPEAKER_05] Super helpful timing. Dear Mr. McClellan, if you will look back on record. The same information now being released. The evidence. I done reported. I reported that the girls were cut up and their throats cut back in 2018. I reported the girls were moved and hidden in a barn and drove around until the search started.

[00:54:29] [SPEAKER_05] I reported that Mr. Logan left town leaving the girls with two others until he got back because Logan got nervous. Recently, as I priorly wrote, I learned now, the last five months, who else were involved. You have one now and Kagan Klein. If I even had if I ever had five minutes, if I even had five minutes to explain, you would see they all three are involved.

[00:54:56] [SPEAKER_05] I offered the detective who come to see me in 2018 just to put a wire on and let them conclude for themselves what all Logan was saying. McClellan, they declined the offer, which made no sense when it was a perfect opportunity as it is a perfect investigation tool for two reasons.

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_05] First, it would provided the information from the source and to eliminate of misinformation as the readily of trusting.

[00:55:29] [SPEAKER_00] Reality.

[00:55:31] [SPEAKER_05] As the reality of trusting an inmate's credibility is within danger.

[00:55:36] [SPEAKER_02] Zone.

[00:55:37] [SPEAKER_05] Zone. I get it. The problem was the detective and examiner come with the mindset of not willing to believe me before I even spoke. I have a disability of trust.

[00:55:50] [SPEAKER_02] Tret.

[00:55:50] [SPEAKER_05] I have a disability of Tret syndrome. I'm assuming that's Tourette syndrome.

[00:55:57] [SPEAKER_03] I believe so.

[00:55:59] [SPEAKER_05] As it provoked my nervous system, I take several medications for treatment and they gave me no chance to explain these facts. That is the reason I just simply offered to just put a wire on and allow it to be recorded. Fast forward. I was visited by an attorney, Andy Baldwin, who was representing Richard Allen about two and a half months ago. I didn't know he was.

[00:56:27] [SPEAKER_05] However, he stated he was investigation past reports and my name come up. He informed me that the information I gave in 2017 lined with the actual evidence of the murder scene. He asked if I would come to testify at this trial. I told him no. And the reason was knowing his client, Kagan Klein and Ron Logan, all are involved.

[00:56:52] [SPEAKER_05] Long story short, I wasn't going to help because I was planning on reporting the information to your office. Mr. McClelland, this ignorant lawyer was hinting me to lie for him and his client, saying that I should know how it is.

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_02] Let's jump out here because I want to highlight this because, again, Ricky Davis doesn't have the best credibility in the world. As that absurd story that he told in this letter proves, the story he told about the girls being driven around, none of that fits the evidence at all. So he has very little credibility.

[00:57:31] [SPEAKER_02] But he does say here that he had a meeting with Andrew Baldwin in which he told Andrew Baldwin that he, Ricky Davis, had evidence and had information that his client, Richard Allen, was guilty of the crime, guilty as charged.

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_02] So if we believe, if we, if we, if we believe Ricky Davis, that means that when Andrew Baldwin filed the stuff, he knew that Ricky Davis was at least at one time accusing his client of being involved in the crime. So you can't say Andrew Baldwin was conned by this guy or he was a mark or, you know, the rube of the big city who fell for the fast talking charms of Ricky Davis.

[00:58:18] [SPEAKER_02] Because if we believe Ricky Davis, then Andrew Baldwin knew all of this going into this. As a question is, do we believe Ricky Davis on this? I'm not sure we should. I'm not sure we should. But I do think since Andrew Baldwin is the one who has catapulted Ricky Davis to prominence here, we should at least be aware of every bit of evidence, every bit of the story Ricky Davis tells.

[00:58:44] [SPEAKER_02] And a big part of the story is not terribly flattering to Mr. Baldwin.

[00:58:49] [SPEAKER_05] But Kevin, just open your mind. Why don't you discard everything that's bad for Baldwin and Allen and just accept everything that Ricky Davis says that's good for them? Wouldn't that be better?

[00:58:59] [SPEAKER_02] Well, I know how it is.

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_05] You know how it is. You know how it is. And, you know, I think it's also not lost on me here that, you know, if people are less receptive to Ricky Davis wearing a wire, it's because he's a liar and his story doesn't make any sense. And why would they waste the time? You know, I mean, that like they shouldn't do that. But I I'm concerned that this guy seems so desperate to get involved in something that he's going to just turn snitch on everyone that he talks to in prison.

[00:59:27] [SPEAKER_05] And if that's the case, I hope defense attorneys absolutely destroy him because he's not reliable.

[00:59:33] [SPEAKER_02] I'm sorry that those detectives had to go out and waste their time talking to this man because I'm sure they could tell from whatever communications he sent back in 2017 and 2018 that his story was nonsense. But professionals have to do their due diligence. And so they went out there and talked to him as they should have. And I feel bad for Nicholas McClellan that he had to take some valuable time this week to respond to this ridiculous tale.

[01:00:03] [SPEAKER_02] I'm sure he knew going in it was ridiculous, but he had to do it because he's a professional and had to do his due diligence. I only wish that Andrew Baldwin had done his due diligence before wasting all of our times with this nonsense.

[01:00:14] [SPEAKER_05] And for all the arguments like I've heard I've heard this said behind the scenes. Oh, well, you know, they're they're just they may not be true, but they just got to see if it is. That's not how this works. OK, this is not this is not like a brainstorm session where we're all just throwing out ideas and it's casual. When you're making a court filing, there should be something to it. OK, especially a court filing done at this late date post conviction. Frickin ridiculous. OK, let's go.

[01:00:43] [SPEAKER_05] Where the heck am I in this thing? Please hear me.

[01:00:47] [SPEAKER_01] OK, back to the letter.

[01:00:48] [SPEAKER_05] Hear me out. Quote, please hear me out. No, I can never relate to child killers. I don't know what planet this attorney is on. It felt insulting in a way. He indicated this a cult issue. He is far from right because Klein told me they staged the scene because Ron know they were coming after him because by the time they were killed, the police was everywhere and through the night.

[01:01:16] [SPEAKER_05] And there was no way to get the girls out of the area. I hope that we can speak because although Logan has passed away, the other two need to face the consequences. I've been afraid that I'm not taken serious and Kagan will somehow get off and not see his day in court. I pray wholeheartedly you'll allow me to explain everything so you can compare the information to validate.

[01:01:44] [SPEAKER_05] I don't expect to be believed. However, you compare the information. Thank you. And as I promised, I would send the note Kagan wrote and I'll send it with this. Take care. For sincerely, Ricky Davis, Newcastle, Indiana.

[01:02:02] [SPEAKER_02] If Mr. Davis actually did send whatever note he had from Kagan, it's not included in the filing.

[01:02:11] [SPEAKER_05] And then is this last? What is? Oh, this last one is the Kagan.

[01:02:15] [SPEAKER_02] His message is from Kagan Klein.

[01:02:17] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah. So this is inmate comprehensive messages report. And it's we're in here, but we're all redacted.

[01:02:26] [SPEAKER_02] So this is a log basically of messages sent to and from Kagan Klein. And the names of some of the people or actually the names of all of the people who were in communication with Kagan Klein, either sending or receiving messages in this thread have been redacted. There are some messages in here that we sent Kagan and received from Kagan. And we'll tell you those when we get to them.

[01:02:54] [SPEAKER_02] I believe that there's a gentleman who has a YouTube channel, Tom Webster. I think he also communicated with Kagan Klein. And I imagine that the answer he got from Kagan Klein is included in this, too. I think he got a reply from Kagan very similar to what we got. And I believe he reached out to Kagan Klein for pretty much the same reason we did. This guy is mentioned in this legal filing where he is supposedly confessing murder to someone. Let's see what he has to say.

[01:03:22] [SPEAKER_05] Do you want to do it so I'm the concerned civilians and you're Kagan Klein with your responses?

[01:03:27] [SPEAKER_00] Sure.

[01:03:28] [SPEAKER_05] Back to old days when I was playing David Vito and Jeremy Clinton and you were Kagan Klein. Remember that?

[01:03:34] [SPEAKER_02] Yes.

[01:03:34] [SPEAKER_05] And everyone sided with you for some reason.

[01:03:36] [SPEAKER_02] I'm very sympathetic and lovable and charming. Much like Crypto the Superdog. Oh, my God.

[01:03:42] [SPEAKER_05] All right. So I guess we'll read the date. And so this first one is February 14th. So the anniversary of the murders. And. This. Here's 10. I'll send the other four separately. Is that him or me? I mean, that's not us, but it's not us. I don't know. I don't know.

[01:04:07] [SPEAKER_02] Here's how it works. It's if when you send or receive emails to people.

[01:04:14] [SPEAKER_05] Oh, someone sending him credits. Someone sending him credits.

[01:04:16] [SPEAKER_02] When we send or receive emails to people in prison, you basically have to use the equivalent of a digital stamp. They're like, I forget. They're less than a dollar each.

[01:04:27] [SPEAKER_05] Oh, this is us. OK.

[01:04:28] [SPEAKER_02] So somebody, it doesn't say who. It wasn't us. Someone sent Kagan some credits. And I'll tell you, basically, whenever we send a communication to someone who is incarcerated, we never pay them. But we do do the equivalent of sending a self-addressed stamped envelope where if I write someone in who is incarcerated, I will include one of these little credits, again, less than a dollar so they can write back to us.

[01:04:56] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah, that's only fair.

[01:04:56] [SPEAKER_02] And these are not credits for something like using a commissary or anything like that. It can only be used for an email.

[01:05:03] [SPEAKER_05] So this is ours. I think this is ours, right, Kevin? This is ours. February 14th at 1027 p.m. This is what we're doing that late at night.

[01:05:12] [SPEAKER_00] On Valentine's Day.

[01:05:13] [SPEAKER_05] On Valentine's Day. Oh, my God. That is the saddest thing in the world. This is really. That's disturbing, man. OK, let's see. This is what we said. Quote, we wanted to reach out to you to see if you had heard about the most recent filing in the Richard Allen case. One of Allen's trial attorneys claims that he spoke with Ricky Davis and that Ricky Davis talked to him about you. According to Davis, you made comments to him indicating you were involved in the murders, that Ronald Logan was too, and that you had info only the killers would know. Do you have any comment on any of this?

[01:05:42] [SPEAKER_02] So that was us. Then Kagan received another message from somebody. Do you want to read this message?

[01:05:50] [SPEAKER_05] Sure. Hi, Kagan. I mean, I don't know who sent this, but.

[01:05:52] [SPEAKER_02] I don't know who sent this.

[01:05:53] [SPEAKER_05] Quote. Hi, Kagan. In fact, Baldwin met with Ricky Davis, inmate who previously talked about Ron Logan confessing to him. Davis told Baldwin he met both Kagan Klein and Ron Logan at Newcastle. Logan confessed to being involved in the Delphi murders with two other people, but never

[01:06:20] [SPEAKER_05] said who they were, although he revealed details only the killer would know. Well, that's not true. March 2024, KK was placed near Davis and KK asked if Logan mentioned KK's name, and Davis began to realize KK might have been one of the other two killers. KK revealed details of the murders that corroborated details Logan told Davis that only the killers would know. These conversations continued until Richard Allen was found guilty in November 2025, and KK

[01:06:49] [SPEAKER_05] told Davis he was relieved he would no longer be a suspect. KK told Davis that Richard Allen was not the third killer, and Allen was not involved in the murders of Abby and Libby. KK told Davis he knew Ron Logan from trading CSAM and sharing burner phones and would meet every three to six months to show Logan how to use the phones. That's it. Baldwin filed the motion because he said Allen's defense never received eight letters. Ricky Davis said he sent to Nick McClellan, Carroll County prosecutor, or a videotaped police

[01:07:16] [SPEAKER_05] interview of Davis, and that the defense could have used that information to show the Ron Logan and you were involved in the murders and Richard Allen is innocent. Is this stuff true? How would you describe Ricky Davis? Is he unreliable slash making stuff up? Apparently, he took a polygraph about what he said Ron Logan confessed to and failed miserably. Some of the details were included in a court filing and did not match up to the case slash crime scene facts. Thanks.

[01:07:41] [SPEAKER_02] So not sure who that is. I do know, as I say, that Tom Webster also reached out to Kagan Klein. Kind of has the feel of a Tom Webster message. Perhaps. And again, Tom Webster, us, we have different styles, but we're both reaching out to Kagan for the same reason. We want to get information.

[01:08:00] [SPEAKER_05] Absolutely.

[01:08:01] [SPEAKER_02] The next message, don't know who this next message is from. It's not from us and almost certainly not from Tom Webster. Do you want to read it?

[01:08:12] [SPEAKER_05] Just a heads up, Holly is back at it and she plans on contacting you to get details. You're a grown man. Just know anything you say to her will be shared online.

[01:08:21] [SPEAKER_02] To give context, Holly is someone who in the past has had some sort of a personal relationship with Kagan Klein. She uses another name online. I don't know if we really need to get into it beyond that.

[01:08:34] [SPEAKER_05] No. What a blast from the past.

[01:08:36] [SPEAKER_02] Okay. And then the next message here is a message from Kagan Klein to us. And I will read it now. Quote.

[01:08:46] [SPEAKER_05] Wait, are we going to read the whole thing? I know we didn't read the whole thing. Well, it's out there now. It's out there now. Whatever. Who cares?

[01:08:52] [SPEAKER_02] So we'll read the whole thing. And since it's in a public document, we'll read the whole thing and we'll explain to you why we didn't read it before.

[01:08:58] [SPEAKER_05] Do it.

[01:09:00] [SPEAKER_02] So this is Kagan Klein writing to us about Ricky Davis. Quote. That dude is an idiot. I've only talked to him maybe two times. He's one of those guys in prison that tries to write all different prosecutors and get time cuts on people's case. It's laughable. He also pimps himself out for commissary and drugs. He's a complete loser and drug addict. End quote. So when we read that on the episode earlier, when it was not a public record, we cut out

[01:09:28] [SPEAKER_02] the line about Kagan Klein saying that Ricky Davis pimps himself out for commissary and drugs because we don't know if that's true or not. All we know is that Kagan Klein, who has credibility problems, says it's true. And we also do know now that some of the things that Kagan Klein has said about Ricky Davis, he does have evidence for. So who knows?

[01:09:51] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah.

[01:09:51] [SPEAKER_02] I don't know if that's true or not.

[01:09:53] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah, we don't know. And I mean, it's neither here nor there. What's important is the relation to the case, I think.

[01:09:58] [SPEAKER_02] Uh, then Kagan wrote back to the other party who asked about it. Quote, LOL, that's so funny. He's so stupid. If anyone could see who Ricky really is, he writes a bunch of prosecutors on people's cases saying a bunch of lies to get a time cut. I've talked to the dude maybe two times. The police know I had nothing to do with that shit. And I have no clue who Ron Logan was until people told me. Ricky goes by ghost.

[01:10:28] [SPEAKER_02] He is a drug addict loser. The worst of the worst in prison. He pimps himself out for commissary and pills. I wish I would have known all this when he was here. LOL. I needed a good laugh. Thank you. Hope all is good with you in the fires in LA. Be safe, man. Have a good one. Unquote.

[01:10:47] [SPEAKER_05] And then there's one more response about the Holly thing.

[01:10:51] [SPEAKER_02] Kagan writes to this person who I don't know who it is. Uh, yeah, I'm not worried. About her. LOL. Thanks for the heads up. I've gotten so many messages about Ricky. It's so funny. That dude is such a joke. End quote.

[01:11:04] [SPEAKER_05] Then on February 18th, we write back.

[01:11:08] [SPEAKER_02] Yes, this is us writing.

[01:11:09] [SPEAKER_05] This is us writing back. Yeah, we had trouble believing Ricky Davis's story because it didn't sound realistic for you to just go up to this guy and start saying stuff like that. Didn't make any sense. It just didn't sound like something you would do. You mentioned talking to him twice. Did he ask you about Delphi? Do you remember what you talked about with him? How do you feel about getting dragged back into this? Long shot. But do you know of any of the prosecutors he's written to slash people whose cases he's worked on? No worries. If not, just figured we'd ask.

[01:11:36] [SPEAKER_05] Are there other people there who might be willing to write to us about Ricky Davis if we reached out to them? We will probably talk about this one on our show. Is there anything else you feel we should know about him and the story he is telling about you? You should also know he is saying that you told him that you would meet up with Ron Logan every few months to help him access child sexual abuse materials. Did you know Logan at all? End quote. Trying to get more information.

[01:11:58] [SPEAKER_02] Yeah, this is also how our mind works. We know Kagan Klein has credibility problems, so we're trying to find out from him. Do you have any evidence or there's other people we can talk to who would back up what you're saying?

[01:12:10] [SPEAKER_05] Here's with Kagan. With Kagan, usually there's a strategy to whatever he's saying that's dishonest or a lie. So in the case of the Delphi case, he used his connection with the case to sort of try to get women to send him sexually explicit things. And that happened again and again. He was like, I'll tell you about Delphi if you send me some stuff. And so that's a situation where I just don't see him sort of unilaterally going up to this guy randomly and suddenly telling this whole elaborate story. That's not really his MO.

[01:12:40] [SPEAKER_05] Usually he's more dangling something to try to get something later from somebody. So it's not that he can't lie or confess or do anything like that. It's just, you know, once you tell the whole story of this Ricky Davis character, you sort of lost leverage over Ricky Davis, which just isn't how he operates. So let's go to this next one.

[01:13:02] [SPEAKER_02] This is a message Kagan received from the person who was writing him about Holly. Do you want to read that one?

[01:13:10] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah. She didn't say much about him. She posted online that your dad was giving you 5K at a time to keep quiet. And then when you got a subpoena, you had her call Rosie and tell him if they transported you, you would just plead the fifth. Aside from that, Casey lost the Super Bowl. I was so bummed out. LOL. Random, I know.

[01:13:28] [SPEAKER_02] End quote.

[01:13:30] [SPEAKER_05] And then this is the next one.

[01:13:31] [SPEAKER_02] This is the person who wrote him asking questions about it.

[01:13:35] [SPEAKER_05] And we don't know who this is. I don't know who it is. You're just speculating. So quote, I appreciate you clearing that up. It was scary with the fires and the winds were so fast that embers were floating several miles. And normally residential neighborhoods are immune to mass fire destruction. But the winds took it to an uncontrollable level. I had to evacuate for a few hours, but my neighborhood is fine. I know a few people who lost their homes and everything inside makes me thankful for the little I have. Thank you. End quote.

[01:13:58] [SPEAKER_02] And then Kagan Klein wrote us back. Quote, no, I'm not sure. But I know that it was about a murder at Michigan City years ago. Yeah. I talked to him about my lawsuit against ISP due to me getting stabbed. And no, I don't know anyone that would talk. Everyone feels the same about him, though. He is a joke. I didn't know Ron Logan or anything about that case. If I did, I wouldn't be in prison for 43 years over a few pictures.

[01:14:26] [SPEAKER_02] I lost my best friend being my dad over all the lies all these other people have said I said about him is crazy. I hate being brought back into all this stuff, especially over the most outlandish lies you could imagine. End quote.

[01:14:39] [SPEAKER_05] Then so, you know, that's we, you know, we tried to get more leads and information didn't work, obviously. Quote, this is not a quote. This is a February 19th. Another person seemingly yet another person messages him. Quote, well, it appears that you are in the spotlight once again. LOL. End quote.

[01:14:57] [SPEAKER_02] And Kagan wrote back. Yeah, it's so stupid. I can't believe they're putting all this stuff on the news when it's not even true. I wish you could see how stupid this guy is. LOL. I've talked to him maybe two times and it was about me getting stabbed in my lawsuit. It's insane. Hope you're doing good. We are getting our new tablets next week. Thank God. Great to hear from you. Hope you message me more often. End quote.

[01:15:20] [SPEAKER_05] All righty. So some some things with Kagan, but also things borne out by Ricky Davis's male history. So so where do we come down on all of this? I mean, I think that I guess I'm don't really consider myself easily shocked in this case anymore. I thought whatever part of my brain that was capable of experiencing shock about Delphi

[01:15:47] [SPEAKER_05] was like burned out and just not responding to any stimuli. But the stuff about this backfiring so spectacularly on Baldwin shocks me to that extent where he was actually basically accused of doing something really inappropriate as a lawyer by the guy who's desperately trying to get everyone to believe, which is kind of fascinating. It's really watching someone like throw a boomerang and it's swinging back around and hitting them in the face.

[01:16:17] [SPEAKER_05] I mean, how do you feel about it?

[01:16:26] [SPEAKER_02] I feel empty because it's like watching a guy throw a boomerang and have it come back and hit him on the face. And you're watching this for like the 50th time. Yeah, it just keeps happening. It keeps happening.

[01:16:42] [SPEAKER_05] You're just yelling stop.

[01:16:43] [SPEAKER_02] And people seem to forget. They put all their chips on these various outlandish stories and they are disproven and people forget that and think they still have credibility and they let them do it again. And then that story implodes and people forget that. And then it happens again. So I feel empty. I feel angry. I'm just tired of it. I it's hard for me to reconcile Baldwin doing this with him being a skilled attorney. You would think you would fact check.

[01:17:13] [SPEAKER_02] You think you would learn from your mistakes, even if you think, oh, this Ricky Davis thing could potentially help me. Oh, I better make sure it's accurate before I file it.

[01:17:21] [SPEAKER_05] You think that an experienced criminal defense attorney would also realize that sometimes you can't trust prison inmates because oftentimes the defense attorneys are the ones saying, hey, this prison snitch is lying about my client. He didn't really confess. So you would think that there would have been an abundance of caution with that in particular. It's not I mean, he wasn't born yesterday, but he felt he was useful, but he wasn't strategic enough to seemingly check it, I would assume. Or I don't know. Maybe there's just no care put into this.

[01:17:49] [SPEAKER_05] I find it to the you know, I don't think most of our audience really is in the same demographic or same group of people who just believe everything the defense says in this case. But if any of them happen to be listening, it would just be do you get tired of looking incredibly stupid? I mean, does that ever get kind of sad or boring or do you ever feel that kind of twinge of doubt in your gut where it's like, wow, I'm really kind of pulling out all the stops to be fans of these people in a real life murder case where I'm basically ignoring the

[01:18:16] [SPEAKER_05] fact that two little girls got murdered, but I'm just, you know, cheerleading for these people online? Like, does that ever get a little bit embarrassing? Do your family and friends know about that? Are they embarrassed? Would they be if they know if they knew? I mean, like, it's just I don't get it. It's it's pathetic. I just have nothing but contempt for this. And I I mean, again, if these people had been at all like thoughtful or smart, they

[01:18:43] [SPEAKER_05] would have, I think, unhitched the Richard Allen is innocence claims from the dispense attorney fandom a long time ago. And this is a reason why.

[01:18:51] [SPEAKER_03] Yes.

[01:18:52] [SPEAKER_05] Right. This is a reason why because this has no credibility. I think McClellan did a good job just kind of laying it all out. I mean, his filing is like four pages and then a fifth page with his signature on it. But when I was reading it, what I thought about I'm going to make a very stupid pop culture reference. What I thought about was, do you know, Kevin, that scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark when a guy comes out in the marketplace and he's doing all this cool sword play and he's throwing

[01:19:21] [SPEAKER_05] the sword around and it's really impressive. He's going to kick ass. And then Indiana Jones just shoots him. Like, that's that's this filing. It's like all this, whoa, bombshell stuff is coming out. And oh, my God, Ron Logan and Kagan Klein teaming up like the axis of evil of Delphi. Like, let's go. And then, you know, no, actually.

[01:19:44] [SPEAKER_05] Ricky Davis, the intrepid prison sleuths, main suspect during trial was Richard Allen. And his story doesn't make any sense. And his story doesn't make any sense, not in a way he's not claiming anything about like, oh, Libby's phone turned on at a weird time. His his claims do not align with that of the defense, what they tried to raise reasonable doubt on. It's just nonsense. It's just nonsense. They were killed in that clearing.

[01:20:14] [SPEAKER_05] That was that was I mean, I don't know how anyone in good faith can argue otherwise have, you know, anyone who actually paid attention in trial or even in the three day hearing. They're killed in the clearing. Anyone who has them going to barns and going around town and being transported is is lying. OK, if you want to have an alternate theory and it's not Richard Allen, fine. But they're killed in the clearing, you know, and I don't know. I find it appalling. I think it's useless. And I just, you know, I.

[01:20:46] [SPEAKER_05] I don't know. I'm so sick of all of this. It's just, you know, I think it's I mean, this is important to talk about because now we're learning that all these, you know, for the for the billionth time, all these things that were promised that were going to be these big, glorious things. I mean, this is a classic just con man situation where people are making, you know, people are making big promises and they consistently are not, you know, no one's getting raptured

[01:21:12] [SPEAKER_05] tonight, you know, and no one's ever going to get raptured because that's not how this works. And when you keep on saying, well, we didn't get raptured tonight, but I've consulted the star charts and actually it's going to be in two years from now. So keep giving me money and attention. Then maybe at some point, maybe at some point, some skepticism should change. Click in. Like, I don't. Because you know what? If I were in that like fandom, because that's basically what they were. If I were in that fandom, I would feel like an idiot right now. And that would be an appropriate reaction.

[01:21:45] [SPEAKER_05] Are we done?

[01:21:47] [SPEAKER_02] We're done.

[01:21:48] [SPEAKER_05] All right. Thanks for listening. Bye.

[01:21:50] [SPEAKER_02] Thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email us at murdersheet at gmail dot com. If you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

[01:22:09] [SPEAKER_05] If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com slash murdersheet. If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www.buymeacoffee.com slash murdersheet. We very much appreciate any support.

[01:22:34] [SPEAKER_02] Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet, and who you can find on the web at kevintg.com.

[01:22:44] [SPEAKER_05] If you're looking to talk with other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening.

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[01:24:58] [SPEAKER_05] There you go. So you can go to quince.com slash msheet. And right now they're offering 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. So it's quince.com slash msheet. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash M-S-H-E-E-T.

[01:25:15] [SPEAKER_02] Before we go, we just wanted to say another few words about VIA. This is really a wonderful product. I think it's really helped both of us get a lot better rest.

[01:25:24] [SPEAKER_05] VIA is pretty much, I guess you'd say, the only lifestyle hemp brand out there. So what does that mean? It means that they're all about crafting different products to elicit different moods. Kevin and I really like their non-THC CBD products. Specifically, Zen really helps me fall asleep. Some Zen can really just kind of help me get more into that state where I can relax and fall asleep pretty easily. And they've been such a wonderful support to us. They're a longtime sponsor.

[01:25:51] [SPEAKER_05] We really love working with them and they really make this show possible. I'm going to say this, like you may not realize this, but when you support our sponsors, you're supporting us and it kind of makes it possible for us to do the show. So if you or one of your loved ones is interested in trying some of this stuff, you're going to get a great deal. It's very high quality, high value.

[01:26:10] [SPEAKER_03] Anya, if I wanted to get this discount you speak of, what do I do?

[01:26:14] [SPEAKER_05] Okay. If you're 21 and older, head to via hemp.com and use the code M sheet to receive 15% off. And if you're new to via, get a free gift of your choice. That's V I I a hemp.com and use code M sheet at checkout. Spell the code M S H E E T. And after you purchase, they're going to ask you, Hey, where'd you hear about us? Say the murder sheet. Cause then it lets them know that our ads are effective and it really helps us out.

[01:26:43] [SPEAKER_02] Before we wrap up this episode, can we take just a moment to say a few more words about our great new sponsor acorns?

[01:26:51] [SPEAKER_05] Yeah. Thanks so much to acorns. Remember when you support our sponsors, you're supporting us and our sponsors make it possible for us to do this job. So we really appreciate them.

[01:26:59] [SPEAKER_00] We love our sponsors.

[01:27:00] [SPEAKER_05] Absolutely. Acorns is a terrific investing app. It's the perfect thing for somebody who wants to get started with their personal finance journey. That can seem daunting. It is daunting. I, I'm so not financially minded. For me, it's always really hard to get started with something like this where you're like, what am I doing? But acorns sort of takes the guesswork out of that. It gets you started and it will essentially help you take control of your financial future.

[01:27:29] [SPEAKER_05] You can get set up pretty quickly and it allows you to start automatically saving and investing. That money can help you, your kids. If you have a family, your retirement, and you don't need to be rich. You don't need to be an expert to do this. It's very simple. And you can start with only $5 or whatever change you have. It's not like you need to put in some massive payment. So it's a great fit for people who are starting out, but they want to take the next step and improve

[01:27:56] [SPEAKER_05] themselves financially and make their money work for them more. So if you're interested, head to acorns.com slash msheet or download the Acorns app to start saving and investing for your future today. Paid non-client endorsement. Compensation provides incentive to positively promote Acorns. Tier 1 compensation provided. Investing involved risk. Acorns Advisors LLC and SEC Registered Investment Advisor. View important disclosures at acorns.com slash msheet.