The Disappearance of Dawn Mozino: A Sister's Search for Answers

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[00:01:21] Content warning. This episode contains discussion of violence and murder.

[00:01:29] Don Mazzino was a special person. The 23-year-old was learning disabled,

[00:01:34] but she did not let that slow her down. She had a job she enjoyed as a hostess

[00:01:39] in the nutrition department of the Bryn Mawr Hospital in suburban Philadelphia.

[00:01:44] She was an active participant in the special

[00:01:47] Olympics, and she had a boyfriend she was close to.

[00:01:53] Don relied heavily on public transportation to get her where she needed to go.

[00:01:59] So when she left work around 3pm on May 22nd, 1989, she headed to the train station.

[00:02:06] She planned to join her boyfriend Dan at a practice session for the special Olympics.

[00:02:12] But Don never made it there.

[00:02:14] A woman driving by later reported spotting Don standing outside the hospital.

[00:02:20] Talking with a man, the witness would later identify as Thomas Hawkins.

[00:02:25] Don had earlier complained about being bullied by Hawkins.

[00:02:29] What made this encounter even more troubling is that Thomas Hawkins had earlier been convicted

[00:02:34] of murder and would later be convicted of yet another murder.

[00:02:39] But investigators never succeeded in definitively tying Hawkins to Don.

[00:02:44] And all these years later, Don's family is still looking for answers.

[00:02:49] At this point they are not convinced that the truth of what happened lies with Thomas Hawkins.

[00:02:55] Don's sister Kathy has helped uncover several other intriguing leads.

[00:03:00] She shared with us for instance a diary Don kept at the time of her disappearance.

[00:03:06] We poured over that diary. It was full of references to a man named Nick.

[00:03:12] When police went to speak with him, they found he had recently committed suicide.

[00:03:17] Could this have somehow been related to whatever happened to Don?

[00:03:21] And there are other items in the diary that are also of interest.

[00:03:24] It includes details about Don's concerns about an illicit affair one of her friends was having

[00:03:30] and how someone was pressuring Don to share information about it.

[00:03:35] Kathy Mazzino will join us today to talk about all of this and to share the personal story of

[00:03:40] what it is like to spend 35 years not knowing what happened to someone you loved.

[00:03:46] My name is Ania Kane. I'm a journalist. And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.

[00:03:52] And this is The Murder Sheet. We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting,

[00:03:57] interviews and deep dives into murder cases. We're The Murder Sheet.

[00:04:01] And this is The Disappearance of Don Mazzino, a sister's search for answers.

[00:04:31] Can you start by telling us about your sister?

[00:04:55] Sure. So Don was about five years older than I was. He was learning disabled and it was well known

[00:05:07] to the point where my mother pulled her out of public school and put her into a

[00:05:13] private school to better serve her needs. He was a very kind person. He was loving.

[00:05:23] We, Don and I had a very typical relationship, you know, with two sisters due. And then when we got

[00:05:32] to our teenage early teenage years, it sort of switched to me being even though I was younger

[00:05:40] than her, switched to me being the older sister just because of her special needs. But she

[00:05:48] was happy all of the time. She was a very motivated individual in the sense that she was determined

[00:05:56] to finish school and she did. She was very athletic and super involved in special Olympics.

[00:06:03] She had won gold medals for track and field. She practiced for special Olympics as often as

[00:06:10] she could at our local YMCA. She had a relationship with her boyfriend, Dan. And you know, she was

[00:06:19] a very special part of our family. In terms of, you know, work, what sort of things did she

[00:06:26] have going on at the time of her disappearance? When she disappeared, she was working at

[00:06:33] a hospital local to us, Bryn Mawr Hospital in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania. She was working in the

[00:06:42] dietary department. So she was the person that delivered the trays of food. She would, you know,

[00:06:51] push the big carts down the hallway all four foot, you know, 10 of her would push these big

[00:06:58] carts down the hallway and she would deliver the trays of food to patients. Prior to that,

[00:07:05] he worked at another place called Paioli Nerfing in rehab, also in the dietary department,

[00:07:12] delivering trays of food to those patients at the time. And prior to that, before she actually

[00:07:20] was old enough to get a job, she was a candy striper which at Bryn Mawr Hospital, which is

[00:07:28] basically just a volunteer. You get to wear like a little cute uniform that was pink and white and

[00:07:34] you, you know, can push patients to and from x-rays or, you know, go in and offer them

[00:07:42] company. It's basically just a volunteer position and she loved every position that she had. She

[00:07:49] really did. She never called out sick. She took transportation to and from her job. She was responsible

[00:07:58] enough that she could figure out train schedules and the bus schedules and she would walk from our

[00:08:05] house to the train station or the bus station, which was about a mile and it didn't really

[00:08:09] matter what shift she was on. She would still walk that that distance to get to work on time.

[00:08:17] What can you tell us about the circumstances of her disappearance?

[00:08:22] So the circumstances of her disappearance, we believe that she was leaving work at the Bryn Mawr

[00:08:31] Hospital when her shift was over. It was a Monday, I believe and she, we believe she went to the

[00:08:41] bus stop. She was taking the bus that day and she was going to go and meet her boyfriend, Dan,

[00:08:48] and they were then going to go to our local YMCA, the train for Special Olympics. From the point

[00:08:57] of the bus station is sort of where we lost sight of her. It was told to us a while after

[00:09:06] she disappeared. I'm going to say within that first year, I don't know how many months after

[00:09:11] her disappearance it came to be but recently after she disappeared that a nurse had seen her

[00:09:21] at the bus stop and that she had gotten into a car or was seen with an African American male

[00:09:30] leaving the bus stop and not getting on the bus. The day that she disappeared we realized that

[00:09:40] she was gone by the fact I actually noticed that she wasn't coming home because we had a dog at the

[00:09:48] time and I guess I'd come home from somewhere and notice that the dog hadn't been walked and

[00:09:55] I was wondering where she was knowing that you know she should have at least stopped at home

[00:10:00] at some point so I went into her bedroom and back then we had answering machines and I played

[00:10:09] the messages on our answering machine and there were multiple, multiple messages from

[00:10:15] her boyfriend Dan saying you know I'm leaving work I'm going to meet you

[00:10:20] you know at the bus stop or whatever so we can go to Special Olympics hope you had a good day

[00:10:26] then it was him calling from a pay phone I posed another message saying I'm waiting for you at

[00:10:33] the bus where are you and then another message on the at the YMCA where are you I'm home

[00:10:41] from the YMCA why did it come there was just multiple messages one after the other after

[00:10:46] the other at which time I went down and alerted my mom and told her and from what I can remember we

[00:10:58] got into the car and drove to Brynmore Hospital and you know basically we're just like where

[00:11:08] where could she have possibly gone you know she just all of a sudden didn't show up to

[00:11:13] everywhere she's supposed to be we ended up calling the police that are local to that hospital

[00:11:23] which is not the police that same police station where she lived it was the Lower Marion police

[00:11:31] they came to Brynmore Hospital and we gave them all of the information once they found out

[00:11:40] that we live in the next town over they were kind of skeptical to like pursue because it wasn't

[00:11:50] technically their jurisdiction they weren't sure like what the line for for that so they suggested

[00:11:57] that we report it to our local police which we did you know and then it just it just was like

[00:12:06] a snowball effect from that point on you know then I had to alert my dad you know and then

[00:12:12] you know the police are involved could she have run away could she has you know gone off with a friend

[00:12:18] and not called home and it's a typical situation or scenario that you hear in every missing person's

[00:12:24] case which is let's wait and see she might call let's wait and see no matter how hard we tried

[00:12:31] to explain no you know she's special needs she's burning the tables she wouldn't just disappear

[00:12:38] this is very unusual I think once once they got a gist of the severity of the situation then it

[00:12:47] launched into our police department which is Radner police department um taking on the case

[00:12:55] and starting an investigation from that point what were those early days like for you and your

[00:13:01] family oh gosh I mean for me it was an out of body experience because I was young I was 20

[00:13:12] you know 20 at the time 1920 you know I had never been in a situation like that before

[00:13:21] it was terribly frightening uh frustrating because it was one of those situations where I was like

[00:13:28] there has to be an answer to this like where could she have gone like who would want to take her like

[00:13:34] it just it was hard to comprehend it was completely devastating for my parents and my stepmother

[00:13:44] you know close extended family aunts and uncles that lived in the area and cousins

[00:13:49] my mom really broke down it was it was a very very difficult time she would sit outside with a candle

[00:14:02] you know she barely slept it was endless phone calls of you know lacking our brains trying

[00:14:09] to figure out who we could call and when we did they would say things like no I haven't talked to her

[00:14:15] in a while or no I haven't seen her or you know I don't know what happened you know and

[00:14:24] I don't know it was like I said for me it was an out of body experience because I

[00:14:29] was kind of watching everything unfold not knowing what to do and trying my parents were

[00:14:35] divorced trying to hold you know be a pillar of strength for my mom the age of 20 years old not

[00:14:43] really understanding how to be that pillar of strength because I had no life experience is

[00:14:49] grasping on to any little shred of hope any little possibility I had friends that would

[00:14:57] or and we pass out flyers we offered reward money it was on you know giving

[00:15:02] interviews with local news it was on radio at the time it was kind of like I was going through

[00:15:10] the motion but just sort of watching myself go through the motions because I didn't really

[00:15:16] understand the magnitude of it you know and I think we all had a little bit of hope of there

[00:15:24] was you know a simple answer to it and that she was just going to come walking through the

[00:15:30] door at any given time and we'd be like where were you you know we've been searching for you to

[00:15:35] understand how serious this was and then she just never came back through the door so years went on

[00:15:44] it just became more and more frustrating more devastating I think the hardest thing for me

[00:15:50] was watching the magnitude of the situation for my parents and how devastating it was and not

[00:15:58] being a parent at the time you know understanding the severity of it but now that I am a parent

[00:16:05] really understanding how devastating this whole thing really is I won't won't even say was because

[00:16:13] it it still is still missing what's more fun than living out your own cozy mystery you know

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[00:19:29] sort of locked onto a suspect at some point um can you tell us more about that?

[00:19:36] Sure so there was a man his name is Thomas and Dawn knew him from the paoli nursing and rehab

[00:19:48] where she worked I believe he also worked in the dietary department I don't know for sure but

[00:19:54] he did work there he and Dawn knew each other from work I don't know that he particularly

[00:20:03] cared that that dawn particularly cared for him very much there was an instant when she worked

[00:20:10] there where she had called me and asked me to come and pick her up from work one day because

[00:20:16] Thomas was being mean to her so I did I went and I picked her up from work and had some choice words

[00:20:23] with Thomas in the space McHallway of that building basically telling him to leave her alone and

[00:20:29] stop being mean to her and took her home that day and that sparked her to find a new job and so

[00:20:37] she transitioned from paoli nursing and rehab to the Brynmore hospital job that she had when

[00:20:43] she went missing and it's believed that Thomas may have gone to Brynmore to have Dawn possibly

[00:20:55] help him attain a job there I don't know if he was fired from paoli or if he quit but he was no

[00:21:03] longer working there and the police believe that he was going there trying to get her help with

[00:21:12] securing a position there so Thomas's name came into play I really don't even remember all the

[00:21:22] details of how his name came into play other than the fact that when it did was after I guess

[00:21:30] sometime early June within the first week of June he was convicted of killing his needs

[00:21:37] by strangulation and he was being prosecuted for that so the police linked him his crime that he

[00:21:48] was being accused of at the time to Dawn's case and he was the same man that a nurse had identified

[00:21:58] Dawn possibly getting into a car with at the bus stop the day that she went missing Thomas

[00:22:05] sat on trial or killing his niece our family had found out that he was also convicted of I guess it

[00:22:16] would be manslaughter I don't even know what the exact charges were but for killing a girl

[00:22:22] prior to that at a boarding school when he was 16 or 17 years old so he had committed that crime

[00:22:31] and then was let out into the workforce met Dawn we believe the police believe that he then was

[00:22:40] trying to have Dawn help him get a job Dawn goes missing on May 22nd sometime early June

[00:22:48] he's accused of killing his niece being held in prison during this trial and at the end of

[00:22:56] that trial he was convicted and sentenced to death and he is currently sitting on death row during the

[00:23:04] trial for his niece the DA at the time plea bargained with Thomas consistently through that entire

[00:23:11] trial for killing his niece and said things like if you tell us what you did with Dawn Reveno

[00:23:18] we'll give you the reward money or if you tell us what you did with Dawn Reveno

[00:23:23] we'll give you life instead of death or it will give the reward money to your mom it was constant

[00:23:30] you know offerings through that entire trial and he every time said I had nothing to do with it

[00:23:38] I am not involved with that and 34 years later he has not changed his stance on the involvement

[00:23:46] in my sister's disappearance and he is currently still sitting on death row I have two questions

[00:23:53] following up from that one do you know exactly what he was doing to bully Dawn and then two have you

[00:23:59] gotten to talk to him in the years since he answered your first question I don't know what the situation

[00:24:06] was that made Dawn call me to pick her up when Thomas was bullying her I don't know what I

[00:24:13] don't know she may have told me I don't remember I do remember deriving there that day and I do

[00:24:20] remember parking right in front of the facility and marching myself right in and she was coming down

[00:24:26] the hall toward me and I said oh no we're going to turn around and have some words with this guy

[00:24:32] and she didn't want me to go down she just wanted to leave and I said no we're going to and we went

[00:24:38] back down to the basement walked down the hall and I basically just said to him you need to

[00:24:43] leave my sister alone you need to stop being mean to her don't talk to her stay away from her

[00:24:49] and he just kind of like threw his arms up like okay you know back off and then we laugh

[00:24:55] oh I don't recall if she told me exactly what the problem was um Dawn was very sensitive

[00:25:03] and just a very kind person she was also very naive which obviously at least to me

[00:25:12] is probably what led to her disappearance and no I have never spoken directly to him since that day

[00:25:24] I have been face-to-face with him twice once in the basement of that facility when I picked her

[00:25:30] up that day and once during the trial of his niece when I was walking to the ladies room and a

[00:25:41] security officer stopped me in the hallway because they were bringing him across the hall

[00:25:47] into the courtroom out of a holding room into the courtroom and he had across

[00:25:51] the hallway that I was walking down and it just so happened to be me walking down the

[00:25:57] hall and him coming out of the holding room and they walked him basically right in front of me

[00:26:05] and I stared at him he stared at me I have no idea if he remembered who I was or not

[00:26:13] and then he walked into the courtyard and I walked down the bathroom to the bathroom

[00:26:19] and vomited because I was so rattled by the fact that he would you know walk two feet

[00:26:26] in front of me I can imagine and so as you mentioned you know some of the circumstances

[00:26:33] around him made police look at him very hard I guess jumping back to the overall investigation

[00:26:39] though obviously there's never been any charges in Don's disappearance I mean you mentioned that

[00:26:44] there was media interest at first you know do you feel like this case has gotten enough attention

[00:26:49] over time you know from law enforcement and the media so you know in the beginning it you know

[00:26:57] we're from a you know an area where big things like this didn't happen at that time so

[00:27:05] it was heavily covered by the news the local news at at the time you know like I said it was on

[00:27:11] the radio as time went on that dwindled down and you know if there was a significant anniversary

[00:27:19] such as at the seven-year mark we had a service for her and it was extremely heavily attended

[00:27:29] and it was covered by all of the news stations and it was in all of the newspapers

[00:27:34] um we did give a lot of interviews to you know the newspapers so after that it it wasn't heavily

[00:27:42] covered by the news if you know another significant anniversary would come up I would then be the

[00:27:49] one to reach out to local news there was one news person who has since retired Walt Hunter

[00:27:57] from our local news who always kept up with the story and I would say out of any you know news

[00:28:04] media or newspaper he would be the one that would always remember Don he was from the same area

[00:28:10] where we live and he always remembered so he would be the one person that would reach out

[00:28:15] and request an you know an interview or give us some air time on the local local news

[00:28:21] as far as the police you know in the beginning the detectives were very involved and in contact

[00:28:29] with our family and we had some really great detectives and they were transparent with

[00:28:35] our family and they were good communicators with our family and they have to surprise the

[00:28:41] you know where they were in their investigation and what they were going to hope to do next

[00:28:46] they were very sensitive to you know our feelings and but sensitive but also very informative

[00:28:54] you know as time went on I mean we're at 34 years now as time went on you know detectives have

[00:29:00] come and gone and you know some have been better than others we are with the detective right now

[00:29:09] who I just don't the communication between the detective and myself particularly is

[00:29:18] not even close to the level that we got from the previous detectives I mean it's

[00:29:26] frustrating they are so hyper focused on Thomas as the suspect then you know number one suspect

[00:29:35] in her case and they are so hyper focused on you can't deny this information and you can't deny that

[00:29:43] he's a monster and you can't deny that the similarities between what he's done and the timing of your

[00:29:52] sister's disappearance so I I'm not so hyper focused on Thomas anymore and I feel frustrated

[00:30:03] with the way her case is being handled right now because they are so hyper focused on Thomas and

[00:30:09] I am not and there are other avenues to pursue and there are other people to put interest and time

[00:30:17] into and maybe a little bit more pressure upon also keep me informed which just yesterday

[00:30:27] I found some information out and I you know would have thought that they would have let me know

[00:30:34] like I only find information out if I go there or if I reach out to them first they don't call me

[00:30:42] anymore it's always the contact is always initiated by me reaching out first whereas prior

[00:30:49] detectives you know were very communicative and you know the last detective that had her

[00:30:55] case he never let a May 22nd pass without sending an email or making a phone call or

[00:31:02] acknowledging our family in some way that just doesn't happen anymore so it just kind of tells me

[00:31:08] that you know after all of this time it's just not as important to them as it was I mean I

[00:31:15] understand you know the manpower isn't at the level that they would like it to be and that

[00:31:22] one thing I always hear from them now is we're so busy we're so busy I get it but she's still missing

[00:31:29] so I don't know maybe a little bit more communication and a little bit more I don't know

[00:31:36] power energy something behind her case would be I think we would get a little bit further

[00:31:44] just zooming out before we get into some of the alternate theories or alternate discussions

[00:31:50] that you've sort of uncovered over time I wanted to you know if you had any advice for

[00:31:57] police detectives when it comes to dealing with a family in a way that's

[00:32:01] leads to better relationships and you know better communication would you have you know

[00:32:08] sort of things that you would like to see in terms of you know just to foster that I guess

[00:32:12] because we've heard that a similar thing from a lot of different families especially families

[00:32:17] with older cases that you know detectives change people lose interest and I'm just curious like if

[00:32:23] you could break down like you know how police agencies can avoid that and like what sort of

[00:32:28] tips would you give to kind of fostering better relations you know no one's really ever asked

[00:32:34] me that before I try to the last time I met with the current detective that has her case now

[00:32:40] I broke down not out of sadness but just out of frustration and anger because you know my

[00:32:46] parents are getting older and I feel like there's other things to pursue and you know I point blank

[00:32:53] ask them do you have kids and he answered I do and I said then you can understand the the desire I

[00:33:02] have to pursue these other options and to find an answer and just an answer like we just that's

[00:33:11] it you know I I don't I don't know how I would advise other families in similar situations that are

[00:33:20] you know that we're all in right now communication is key I mean don't let two three four six

[00:33:29] months eight months go by without a contact maybe the detectives could just write it on their

[00:33:37] calendar check in with so-and-so family you know they've you know been waiting 34 years for an answer

[00:33:45] check in every two months let them know where you are in the investigation so they're not left

[00:33:50] sitting and thinking you're doing nothing I always hear from the current detective you can reach out

[00:33:55] to me anytime I don't want to have to be the one to reach out if you're doing something tell

[00:34:00] me you're doing it don't let it get to the point where I show up at your doorstep and

[00:34:05] suddenly find out that somebody has been spoken to and I had no idea you know it's that type of

[00:34:12] thing that's frustrating and I quite honestly think our family has been very patient and

[00:34:19] I don't know very accommodating to the police you know whenever they need something we we jump

[00:34:25] but you know we also don't call every single day thinking they're doing their job and

[00:34:32] that they'll let us know but we recently aren't being let now and unless we reach out to them first

[00:34:40] and I know I listened to many crime podcasts of missing persons and it is the same for all of the

[00:34:49] families you know in the beginning it's all gung-ho and you know everybody's on board and

[00:34:54] people are passing out flyers and walking the streets and in Dawn's case walking train tracks

[00:35:00] talking to as many people as you possibly can but as time goes on those things just allow and

[00:35:07] really people people move on and the family doesn't you know you don't move on you don't

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[00:36:24] and then one more question about Thomas before I think we can move on to some of the alternates

[00:36:28] but you mentioned um you know like the police are so gung-ho about him in particular as a

[00:36:34] suspect and I'm just this is maybe calls for some speculation but do you get the sense that there's

[00:36:41] any other information about him that make them really look at him that they're not sharing with

[00:36:46] anybody at this time or do you really think it's just like the circumstantial evidence or kind of

[00:36:52] situation that is spurring that interest so apparently a while back I don't know when

[00:37:02] a long while back Thomas shared a cell with a man named Gerald and Gerald claims that Thomas said to him

[00:37:14] yeah I killed that little Italian girl and I buried her where no one could find her

[00:37:22] something along those lines and he indicated that she was somewhere around the Philadelphia

[00:37:28] airport and we don't know if Gerald was saying this because he wanted time off for good behavior or

[00:37:37] time off for solving a case or maybe he wanted the reward money to be given to him or somebody in

[00:37:45] his family and the police did look into that they are I believe still looking into that

[00:37:52] there's some politics that are keeping them from I guess speaking to him as quickly as they would like

[00:38:01] to but again that's another reason why they're hyper focused on Thomas because of the coincidences

[00:38:09] of the timing of you know Dawn's disappearance versus his niece's murder and what just man

[00:38:17] happened to say and I don't really know how much credit they're giving to that statement from the

[00:38:23] cellmate but they're giving some because they're going to pursue that so what degree it will go to

[00:38:32] I don't know I I don't have much faith in that and when he did give that information we did go

[00:38:39] and have that area searched um we had to get permission from you know the township and

[00:38:45] all the people involved in that area they had to okay it and they did and we did send a search team in

[00:38:52] there and didn't come up with anything and that obviously was when Dawn's case was with a different

[00:38:58] detective team and you know they were right on it now that's you know the detective that has it

[00:39:05] now he's still kind of keeping that you know as one of the options for an answer I again don't

[00:39:13] really think that's gonna go anywhere but we'll see and then I'm moving on to some of the alternative

[00:39:18] suspects um or this alternative I should say persons of interest you know can you speak a bit

[00:39:24] about some of the things that you've been able to uncover over time so Dawn kept a diary and in

[00:39:31] her diary there are three people in particular that she mentioned four total and when I first

[00:39:40] got my hands on her diary you know I read through it and I got to the last few pages and

[00:39:48] was quite honestly shocked by what I was reading she was writing a lot about a friend of hers named

[00:39:55] Carol who was having an affair with a man named Hampton. Dawn and Carol were very good friends

[00:40:03] very good friends Carol and Hampton were sneaking around and going to hotels and doing I guess whatever

[00:40:10] people who are having an affair do and Dawn was you know trying to be a good friend to Carol and

[00:40:17] writing about it in her diary on the last journal entry or one of the last journal entries which

[00:40:22] was May 17th like five days before she went missing um she had written that I don't remember

[00:40:29] exactly what the words were um but that she was having some concern because Hampton's wife and

[00:40:36] Hampton and I guess Carol believed that or Hampton and his wife believed that Dawn had some information

[00:40:44] that that she knew that she wasn't telling them you know she was saying in her diary that she

[00:40:49] really didn't know anything and that I guess insinuating that they were upset with her

[00:40:55] she was worried about it so you know over the years Carol has been brought into the police station

[00:41:03] and questioned and has always said she didn't know anything she didn't remember anything

[00:41:11] the last interview he had with the police he said that her and Dawn weren't even that great a

[00:41:17] friend well I have a huge problem with that because they were great friends they were

[00:41:23] Carol was Dawn's best friend at the time Carol came to our house Dawn went to her house so

[00:41:30] I'm very suspect that she knows more than what she's disclosed to the police and she

[00:41:41] every time we ran into her every time I ran into her soon after Dawn disappeared would be in a

[00:41:47] grocery store and she would turn and run the opposite direction for me she would never approach me

[00:41:55] it was almost like she was afraid to even come near me and I always found that to be strange

[00:42:00] but I never thought more about it other than well I think she's got some learning difficulties and

[00:42:08] you know that could just be the way she handles it so you know all these years later I read

[00:42:14] Dawn's diary and read about that and I linked you know running into her in the grocery store to

[00:42:20] what Dawn was writing about her and her diary and I was like really strange like most people we would

[00:42:26] run into anybody in our family would stop us and say oh my gosh I'm so sorry how can I help you

[00:42:32] that type of thing not turn and run the other direction no matter how uncomfortable it was

[00:42:37] they would at least say they're just very sorry so after reading her diary I thought that was

[00:42:43] very suspicious the involvement with Carol and Hampton I found to be and the fact that

[00:42:52] Hampton was spoken to by the police and he said he didn't know anything and that he thought

[00:42:59] Dawn's case had been solved or thought that he said she had been found that's crazy to me

[00:43:05] because there were posters everywhere saying missing so and it was never disclosed on the news

[00:43:12] not when Thomas was going through the trial for his niece it was never said that she was found it was

[00:43:19] always said missing reward so for him to think that it was confusing to me Dawn mentioned

[00:43:27] in her diary that Hampton's wife at the time who had since passed away you know Dawn I feel

[00:43:34] as though the way Dawn wrote the words in her diary she felt threatened by Hampton and Hampton's

[00:43:40] wife at the time so you know after reading that you know I said to the police like we need to look

[00:43:47] into these people we need to you know have them back in to be questioned we need to go this is a

[00:43:52] road we need to travel down like enough of the Hawkins idea we need to hone in on these people

[00:43:59] and they did in a sense that they brought Carol in to talk to and got nowhere with her

[00:44:05] they recently questioned Hampton they paid him a visit the response from the detectives were that

[00:44:12] they really found him to really not know anything I was not okay with that answer and I asked them

[00:44:18] you know to speak with him again and they did and this I just found out yesterday so I had to

[00:44:26] ask them you know I would like you to speak with Hampton again the detective said okay well

[00:44:31] maybe we'll bring him in and I said great let me know well I was never brought on board with when he

[00:44:40] was coming in if he was going to be questioned I went yesterday with some more information

[00:44:47] to the police department and found out that they had brought him in and questioned him

[00:44:51] about a month ago and they never let me know and their response to that interview with him was

[00:44:58] we found him to be very truthful and that was very frustrating to me because I don't know I just

[00:45:06] between Hampton Carol and Hampton's dead ex-wife I truly believe there is an answer there it's in

[00:45:14] my gut I feel like there needs to be more focus on the three of them and we've focused enough

[00:45:21] on Hawkins he's never changed his story and recently the last time they spoke with him

[00:45:27] he loyered up so he's now not speaking at all there's three people other people that I want

[00:45:34] a little bit of pressure put on there's a fourth person and a fifth there's a fourth

[00:45:39] person that Dawn mentioned in her diary his name is Nick and Dawn I guess was very interested in

[00:45:48] him you know she did have a boyfriend at the time he was very interested in Nick and

[00:45:54] I guess was kind of wavering between her relationship with her boyfriend Dan and Nick

[00:46:02] when I asked for Nick to be looked into because of how many times he was mentioned in Dawn's diary

[00:46:09] the detective looked into him and these were not the current detectives these were prior

[00:46:15] they looked into him and found they were going to go up and talk to him

[00:46:19] and they found out that he had committed suicide my question was does anybody know why did he leave

[00:46:26] a note was he riddled with guilt did he do something to Dawn because she was talking

[00:46:31] a lot about him in her diary and by the time they got around to possibly going out to talk

[00:46:39] to some people in that area and maybe his mother his mother had since died so nobody ever traveled

[00:46:46] to where he was from to talk to anybody to see if there's still anybody in that area that may now

[00:46:52] off see if there's still anybody in that area that he may have been good friends with prior to him

[00:46:57] committing suicide that maybe he might have disclosed something about my sister too so you

[00:47:04] know that's a whole other investigation that could be looked into that isn't being looked into

[00:47:11] over the past weekend I am working with somebody who's kind of like a pseudo private investigator

[00:47:20] he is not a podcaster he's not a journalist he's just somebody that takes these guys into

[00:47:29] unsolved murders or missing persons cases so he uncovered a bit of information for me

[00:47:38] over the weekend post a text message from my mother so this might be a little confusing

[00:47:45] try and stay with me over the weekend I was texting and speaking back and forth with my mom trying

[00:47:52] to remember Nick's last name and three years ago it's a name that we could have rattled off

[00:47:58] without a problem like it was an everyday name sometime has gone by my mom's getting older

[00:48:05] she can't remember his last name I can't remember his last name in trying to remember his last name

[00:48:11] my mom spoke with Dan who she's in contact with every single day and asked Dan if he remembered

[00:48:20] Nick's last name Dan said no but he gave out a few other names of people that hung around Dan

[00:48:30] and Dawn and Carol and Hampton at the time this man's name is Maury when my mom texted me back

[00:48:39] and said I spoke with Dan and he remembers and she rattled off some names when I read the name

[00:48:47] Maury it was kind of like a gut punch for me because I remember Dawn bringing up that name

[00:48:54] because it's not a name that is common I then gave that name to this investigator person that I'm

[00:49:04] working with and he and I'll keep in mind Maury's and Dan worked together at local hangout place

[00:49:11] close by Kmart where you know just happened to be not only a store but a place where a bunch

[00:49:18] of them hung out together just a friend Dan and Maury both worked at Kmart Maury's and Hampton

[00:49:26] were friends Maury's is currently sitting in jail or attempted murder false imprisonment

[00:49:36] and a couple other charges I can't remember what they are Maury's is five foot seven Hawkins

[00:49:43] is five foot eight they're both African-American they have a similar facial structure he has come into

[00:49:53] my orbit as being in my mind a big person of interest because remember me telling you about

[00:50:02] the nurse who saw Dawn get into a car with someone that looked like Hawkins well this man

[00:50:09] is similar build only an inch shorter could definitely have been mistaken for Thomas so that

[00:50:18] is the information that I brought to the detectives yesterday morning at 8 30 Pacific standard time

[00:50:27] and the detective that normally works on Dawn's case was not in the office yet

[00:50:31] I gave all of that information to another detective that's detective PJ who I mentioned earlier

[00:50:38] PJ said he would pass the information on to Jim who is the detective that mainly works on

[00:50:46] Dawn's case now that's kind of where we are PJ said they will look into it then possibly go

[00:50:52] and question him I don't know that they have had much of a discussion about it I personally

[00:50:59] thought that they would have it that Jim would have at least reached out to me yesterday and said

[00:51:05] I spoke with PJ I got all of the information I watched the video recording of you disclosing

[00:51:14] all of the information once they recorded me telling them all of the information

[00:51:19] that I went there with and I haven't heard a word from them so that goes back to me

[00:51:27] and the lack of communication between myself and the detective

[00:51:34] and that is where we are at this moment we wanted to ask you to you know as sort of we wrap up

[00:51:42] you know I guess the first thing would be investigatively you know from from the

[00:51:48] perspective of getting information on what happened to Dawn sometimes people think oh I

[00:51:54] don't have good information or I barely was part of this so I'm not going to come forward but

[00:51:59] I mean what gaps would you like to fill in as far as questions that remain in Dawn's case that

[00:52:04] people could help with if they were in the area at the time if they knew any of these folks if

[00:52:09] they knew um you know just kind of I guess what was happening you know what what sort of pieces

[00:52:16] would you like to get at this point and how can they come forward with that information in a

[00:52:22] way that's helpful and will kind of elicit a response I suppose from law enforcement to put it that way

[00:52:28] well I mean I would love for people or relatives of Hampton's first wife who is now the C

[00:52:40] her name was Annette I would love for like some of her relatives to come forward did she ever

[00:52:49] talk about you know the affair that Hampton had and what went on from what I understand she may have

[00:52:55] been also having an affair at the time but you know what kind of arguments went on between the two

[00:53:03] of them I would hope that the police will bring Dan back in for some conversation you know Dan

[00:53:10] also is part of Special Olympics and people would refer to him as learning disabled

[00:53:16] but the fact that he gave that name to my mom over the weekend you know it's almost like he was holding

[00:53:24] a holding a little bit of like really important information thinking it's not important because

[00:53:30] it was just somebody that he worked with but it is important because he knew Hampton and maybe

[00:53:36] Hampton and Annette were thinking you know we want Dawn out of the way because she's causing

[00:53:44] you know Dawn had I guess spoken with Annette and said you know given some information about

[00:53:51] Carol and Hampton's affair and it upset Annette and you know maybe Hampton and Annette said

[00:53:59] to this guy Maury do something about it or get you know get rid of Dawn or you know I don't know

[00:54:07] there's like so many possibilities you know and they're just possibilities they're just ideas

[00:54:13] but this these are ways that you solve cases is talking to you know these people that

[00:54:21] had conversations with people that knew Dawn or knew of Dawn you know and no piece of information

[00:54:28] is too small like just finding out that one name over the weekend has led to a whole other

[00:54:36] possibility you know this is a whole other possibility and the fact that you know this guy Maury

[00:54:43] could have been mistaken for Thomas at the bus stop because they look so similar but Maury's

[00:54:49] name has never been brought up and as far as I know I don't think he was ever questioned I know

[00:54:54] that the police did go down to Kmart and try to talk to the people that worked there I don't

[00:55:00] know how many of them they did I don't know I mean I'm sure they wrote it down do they

[00:55:05] still have that information of the people they spoke to I don't know like this is all stuff that can be

[00:55:11] you know re-looked at with a fresh set of eyes and you know new theories and possibilities and

[00:55:18] when you have new theories and possibilities sometimes that's what solves the case fact that

[00:55:23] the police have been so focused on Hawkins has not led them to even look in or consider

[00:55:29] these possibilities so this is like you know all things that that can be put out into the open and

[00:55:37] you know if you still lived here 34 years ago people still remember dawn people still remember

[00:55:43] the case people still remember the time people that still people still remember walking up

[00:55:49] and down train tracks or passing out flyers or putting flyers in their stores or just talking

[00:55:56] about our case or hearing about it on the news people from this area if you're from this area and

[00:56:03] and you didn't leave during college then chances are you're still in this area and you know I had a

[00:56:11] lot of my friends involved at the time because they wanted to help so I you know that's just

[00:56:18] kind of where we are you know like get involved don't be afraid to say something speak up if you

[00:56:24] know little name drop or you know I didn't think it was a big deal at the time but you know and

[00:56:31] this person may have nothing to do with it but here's a name I know this person worked at Kmart

[00:56:37] at the time or you know I know this person worked at Brimmer hospital at the same time don't work

[00:56:42] there or you know anything like that is information you know that can be looked at with a fresh

[00:56:49] set of eye basically like if you're from this area and you remember that time or you worked with

[00:56:56] dawn or you worked at Kmart or you knew Hampton or Annette or Carol or Maurice or Dawn's friend Nick

[00:57:05] which like I said we're still trying to figure out what his last name is and I know the police

[00:57:09] have it written down somewhere they're just not sharing it with me but I you know come forward

[00:57:19] tell me who you are you know talk to the police and give them information even if you think it's not a

[00:57:26] big deal like it could be a little teeny plumb could be something so huge so yeah I mean that's

[00:57:36] that's my that's my call for right now for help and you know this all started with a Facebook

[00:57:44] post that I put out pretty much every year I say you know tell her story in my you know yearly

[00:57:52] memory of the date of her disappearance and this year I just so happened to say you know I I'm

[00:57:59] looking for people that you know podcasters to tell her story I'm looking for people who want

[00:58:04] to take a deep dive I'm looking for you know and I'm not going to say no to anybody like

[00:58:09] you want to get her story out there please do type of thing because this is how we're going to come

[00:58:16] across this information you know and I'm not waiting around for you know the police to you know if I

[00:58:25] can get it myself I'm going to get it myself and and then I'll take it to the authorities and

[00:58:31] then hope they do something with it which is what I'm doing right now absolutely well I just

[00:58:36] want to say that we commend you so much for for being an advocate for your sister and taking on this

[00:58:42] you know this role and I guess you know we kind of wanted to close out by you know focusing on

[00:58:49] dawn as a person and we were just wondering do you have any like sort of special memories that

[00:58:54] kind of come to your mind when you think about dawn or you know times you shared together

[00:58:58] anything like that oh my god well so many you know you know you know her life was cut dramatically short

[00:59:10] you know growing you know as young kids when dawn and I were growing up our favorite thing to do would be

[00:59:19] we had roller skates and we had this basement and we would roller skate you know to listening

[00:59:25] to Sean Cassidy in the basement you know we had big wheels and at the bottom of our driveway

[00:59:32] after it rained there was always one spot of the driveway that would get this huge puddle and we would

[00:59:37] you know ride our big wheels down the driveway and you know that was like like a very you

[00:59:44] know still very strong memory I have of times with her you know growing up next to our

[00:59:51] house there was like a very thick wooded area and we had like a little area in there that we called

[00:59:57] flowerland because there were honeysuckle vines in there and we would go and like sit underneath the

[01:00:03] vines and just pick the honeysuckle and you know pretend make believe you know different scenarios

[01:00:12] in the woods and I mean I had so many good fun memories of growing up with a big sister

[01:00:21] yeah I could go on and on you know one really funny story of dawn when she was

[01:00:27] you know probably I don't know maybe nine or ten I do remember this being down

[01:00:35] in Jersey at at our beach house at the time and my dad had brought home

[01:00:43] shrimp and I guess she had never had it before and we gave her a few we gave her a couple of pieces

[01:00:52] and I remember my dad saying what do you think what do you think Donnie what do you think

[01:00:57] and I remember her saying well I like it it's just it's really crunchy

[01:01:01] and then my dad had realized that she never picked the cell off the outside of the shrimp

[01:01:06] and she was just eating it with that you know like the pick and eat shrimp type of thing

[01:01:10] and you know just funny like stories like that but you know she as I say all of the time she was

[01:01:19] the kindest person she was so devoted and involved with her job and with Special Olympics

[01:01:29] and she adored Dan and you know she was fun to be around and you know she had a lot of

[01:01:41] people in her life that understood her and you know the type of person she was

[01:01:48] and they accepted her for who she was and you know she loved to smile and

[01:01:55] she was just a you know a great great person and I would not be a good sister if I did not pursue

[01:02:05] this until my last dying breath and so you know as I say to you know the police and everybody else

[01:02:13] you know my parents are getting older and I want an answer before their time on this earth is over

[01:02:19] but if I don't get it I am going to continue to search and ask for answers and pursue every

[01:02:28] possible possibility until my last dying breath so you know if you're newer if you love her and

[01:02:38] even if you know somebody that's involved in her case you know reach out and you know let us know

[01:02:46] because some little teeny piece of information could be something really really profound

[01:02:53] absolutely and and thank you so much for sharing this with us I just want to say we

[01:02:58] appreciate you trusting us with your story and and we hope this helps raise some attention or

[01:03:04] spark some conversations that can be helpful um is there anything we did not ask you about

[01:03:09] that you wanted to mention or want to stress to the listeners

[01:03:15] um you know no just that you know in a in a I guess a pseudo eulogy that I gave on the 25th

[01:03:24] anniversary of her disappearance you know I've said that a lot of times when people are in

[01:03:30] situations where there's a death or a missing person you know other people will say you

[01:03:36] know you just need to move on or you need to carry on or move past or you know move on basically and I

[01:03:46] said in that speech I gave you know you don't move on because you know it is something that

[01:03:54] you carry you carry it with you I say instead of moving on our family's turned it into March

[01:04:00] and marching is hard work when you do it all day every day and that's what our family does we march on

[01:04:08] we're strong and we have faith that someday this will be answered and you know if you knew her

[01:04:18] you you loved her and you know I hope you get a little bit of a feeling of what an amazing

[01:04:26] human being she was absolutely I could just say that us talking to you makes it so clear what a

[01:04:33] special person Don was and how greatly she's been missed by your family and those who loved her and

[01:04:38] we're just so sorry for your loss and and what your family has gone through but we just want

[01:04:42] to say we really admire you continuing to search for answers for her I really appreciate

[01:04:48] it thank you so much and thanks for telling her story you know the more the people

[01:04:53] more people that hear it the more likely we are to come up with a solution

[01:05:00] we'd really like to thank Kathy for taking the time to speak with us today

[01:05:05] thanks so much for listening to the murder sheet if you have a tip concerning one of the cases

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