The Murder of Faith Hedgepeth: The Trial of Miguel Enrique Salguero-Olivares: Day Twelve: The Verdict

[00:00:00] [SPEAKER_07] I'm Anya, and today we're going to be delving into the verdict in the Faith Hedgepeth murder case. Yes, we already have a verdict. Content warning, this episode contains discussion of rape and murder.

[00:00:12] [SPEAKER_07] All right, so there's been a verdict in the Faith Hedgepeth murder case. I'm not going to tease it out to you. Miguel Enrique Salguero-Olivares has been found guilty on all counts. So let's get into it, describe what we saw today and discuss this horrific and heartbreaking case. My name is Anya Kane. I'm a journalist.

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_00] And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney. And this is The Murder Sheet. We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews and deep dives into murder cases. We're The Murder Sheet.

[00:00:52] [SPEAKER_07] And this is the murder of Faith Hedgepeth, the trial of Miguel Enrique Salguero-Olivares, Day Twelve, The Verdict.

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_07] So let's go back to why we are here. We are here, unfortunately, because on September 7th, 2012, a young woman, 19-year-old UNC Chapel Hill sophomore, Faith Hedgepeth, was brutally raped and murdered in her apartment in Durham County, North Carolina. Again, she was attending UNC Chapel Hill. This is near the border with Chapel Hill.

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_07] She's staying in this apartment with her roommate and dear friend, Karina Rosario. And Karina is having a tough night after some drinking leaves. Faith is left alone in the apartment and is just brutally murdered. The case goes unsolved for a number of years. Again, this is back in 2012. And September 16th, 2021, there was finally some really major movement in the case.

[00:02:44] [SPEAKER_07] That is when Salguero-Olivares was arrested. That was apparently due to some investigative genetic genealogy that occurred pointing to him and also with some assist from a driving while intoxicated charge that he was facing. On this case, we've seen essentially like what is this DNA going to come down to? Whose story about the DNA is going to be better? I want to emphasize this to everyone listening.

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_07] DNA is circumstantial in and of itself. There can be DNA in places for totally innocuous reasons. And what that boils down to, the way I look at DNA, when I would encourage everyone to look at the DNA in any case, is does this have a good reason to be here? That's the question. So if you're having like a hypothetical case where somebody says, well, you know, let's say someone's murdered in their home.

[00:03:41] [SPEAKER_07] And certainly that happened in this case. And a boyfriend who frequently comes over, their DNA is found all over the scene.

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_00] That's something that if there's a logical explanation for the DNA being present in a particular location, that doesn't require a crime to have been committed. Then it doesn't really mean a lot.

[00:04:03] [SPEAKER_07] Could be innocuous, could not be innocuous. The guy could have done it, but we just don't know because his DNA has a reason to be there because he was there all the time because he's a boyfriend who's frequently over there. Now, if it's a stranger whose DNA is suddenly appearing at the scene and they have no connection to the victim, that's a different story. If they're denying knowing the victim, that's a different story. If they have no real plausible explanation for why their DNA is present, that's a different story. And of course, that is exactly what happened here.

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_07] So let's go over the trial just briefly. Some of the major figures we have on the defense side, James Rainsford sort of seemed to be the lead on a lot of this. Jason Murphy, another defense attorney. Christopher Barnes didn't really hear from him during the trial, but he was certainly present at the defense table. The prosecution was Lisa Coltrane, the special state prosecutor specializing in arson and homicide cases. She delivered part of the closing argument that I thought was incredibly powerful.

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_07] Angela Garcia LaMarca, who delivered the prosecution's opening statement and also part of the closing argument. I thought she did great. And Brooke Stone, she's a Durham County assistant district attorney, as is Brooke Stone. I thought he did an excellent job too and really did great in some of the cross examinations and direct examinations. So those were the three prosecutors. I thought the three prosecutors did by and large excellent.

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_07] I think the defense comported themselves with skill and tried their best with limited. I mean, they had limited options and limited options. And I think they. They defended their client vigorously. The judge in this case is Superior Court Judge, the Honorable Keith O. Gregory. When I talk more about him later, but guys, I love this judge.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_07] I thought he was he was just great. I thought he was great. So in terms of what happened today yesterday, we had the closing arguments and then the jury went off to deliberate. And Kevin, I was shocked by. So many things that moved with alacrity today and swiftness and speed. But.

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, it seemed a lot happened because not. Yeah. Was the verdict handed down. We heard some victim impact statements and we got a sentence.

[00:06:33] [SPEAKER_07] See, that's what I was. I was not surprised that a verdict came down today. Honestly, if. If I if they hadn't come down with a verdict today, I might have been like there's some ding dong on the jury who I don't know. That didn't surprise me. The fact that they did the sentencing, that's certainly not how we in Indiana. We have a much more leisurely pace about the whole thing. You know, the sentencing is its own thing. The victim impact statements are their own thing. In this case, they just boom. They do it all at once.

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_07] So interesting. So let's talk about what how the day played out because I was kind of monitoring it in the background. So the deliberations began at 930 a.m. And at one point during the morning and we posted a social short video letting people know about this, but the media reported that the jury had asked for the latent fingerprint in DNA lab summaries. And when I saw that, I was like, yeah, that's not good for the defendant.

[00:07:32] [SPEAKER_07] You know, it's not good if they're looking at that, in my opinion, because that's such powerful evidence against him. It puts him at the scene, a scene which he didn't even put any witnesses on saying, well, here's how I knew her. You know, he didn't testify saying here's how I knew her. We just we're supposed to just think, OK, well.

[00:07:50] [SPEAKER_07] This guy Faith mentions to nobody just had a consensual sexual encounter with her, like very close to the time where she was brutally murdered by a stranger who also seemed to leave her in a state that indicated a sexual assault took place. So it's pretty, pretty convenient. So they they're deliberating. They look at this stuff. They reach a verdict by 424 p.m. I feel like that is a respectful amount of time.

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_07] It feels like they wanted to look through everything, make sure that they were on the same page. And that taking kind of almost a day to look through everything, just that it feels like they were taking it seriously, which is certainly what you want.

[00:08:31] [SPEAKER_00] Exactly. That's exactly that's what you want.

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_07] You want people. I mean, this is ultimately about the life of a man, of a human being. And you want to be sure that you're making the right choice, even when I feel like this was a slam dunk case for the prosecution. It's like, let's look over it can't hurt to look over everything one more time. Now, they all come. Come. The jury comes back and I'm going to actually play here. How this was conveyed, it was actually through the clerk.

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_07] So the person you're seeing, you know, actually read the verdict. It's not one of the jurors. It is the clerk of court. So here we go.

[00:09:11] [SPEAKER_03] Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, you will return with the following verdict. Stavros K. Long versus Miguel Oliveira. It's about number 21CR 5464-310. We as well members of the jury, the knowns found things to be count one guilty of first degree murder. If you find a defendant guilty of one degree murder, is it criminalization and deliberation? Yes. And for under the first degree murder rule? Yes.

[00:09:40] [SPEAKER_03] Count two, guilty of first degree murder. Count three, guilty of first degree rape. And count four, guilty of course to be sexual. The additional words are saying you all. Yes. Right. Okay.

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_07] So he was convicted on first degree murder? First degree rape, first degree sexual offense, first degree burglary. I must have missed it. I know there were five charges. The additional one was felony murder, essentially. North Carolina's version of felony murder. I guess maybe that gets, I don't know if that got bundled into the first degree murder that was like premeditated. So either way, either way, it is whatever. He was convicted on all counts.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_07] This jury found that he beat Faith Hedgepeth to death, that he raped her, that he sexually assaulted her, and that he came in her apartment without permission to do all of that. And, you know, my reaction to that is absolutely. I think this was the only verdict that they could have come to. There was never going to be a world when he, when he was acquitted.

[00:10:52] [SPEAKER_07] Like that wasn't going to happen based on the evidence. He was so obviously guilty. The evidence so obviously convinced him.

[00:10:58] [SPEAKER_00] The evidence was overwhelming and the defense didn't do anything to really challenge that evidence, nor did they really even try to offer much, if any, of an alternative explanation for why that evidence may not have.

[00:11:14] [SPEAKER_07] Because they can't suborn perjury.

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_00] Yes.

[00:11:16] [SPEAKER_07] Now their hands were somewhat tied here because they also were deprived of a third party suspect in the form of Karina Rosario. But frankly, given the lack of evidence against her, I think that was an appropriate decision by the judge. I'm sure it'll be tested on appeal. I'm sure they'll go for that on appeal. But I mean, again, Karina Rosario is a woman and she didn't leave semen. You know, she wasn't able. I don't like how would she have. It doesn't.

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah, I don't think she did this. I think she's owed apology by a lot of people who've said some pretty awful things about her online, frankly. I get that in a case where there's like, you know, we want someone to blame and somebody is perceived as being kind of weird or doing things that are odd. I get that there's like a rush to judgment, but I think until someone's like charged in a case, it's it's it's OK to be prudent. Like we can talk about things. Some speculation can be fine.

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_07] I'm not trying to like tamp down any discussion of like, oh, this is a possibility or this is a possibility. But I feel like I saw a lot of people just saying she straight up did it. And I just can you imagine losing your best friend in such a heinous manner, being one of the ones to discover her battered body? And then from the time you're a like young college student till now, you're under this cloud of suspicion where people who don't know you online just say stuff like, oh, I think the roommate did it.

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_07] Can you imagine?

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah.

[00:12:44] [SPEAKER_07] Like I'm just asking people to like. I'm asking true crime as a whole to just like think about that and think about how much that would be a terrible experience. And maybe we can kind of like use this case as an example of like. Maybe let's never do that again, because that just doesn't seem fair. And there's certainly.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_07] Instances where I think you can charge about, you know, can talk about people who are not charged, but like it seems obvious they did it or maybe the police bungled the case and it's not going to be I'm not saying we can never do that. I'm just saying in this case, like. We should proceed with caution, because if we're talking about someone who's innocent, then we're just compounding trauma. There's no reason to do that. So next week, the judge talked to the jury.

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_07] He said that they don't have to do jury duty for the next two years. They got two years off and they can all stay for the sentencing if they want, but they don't have to. And here's where I was like, wait, there's going to be we're doing sentencing now. All right, let's go. And. You know, can you can you explain how odd that is to people not in North Carolina?

[00:13:54] [SPEAKER_00] Well, for instance, here in Indiana, after someone is convicted of a crime, there is usually a period of roughly a month before the person is sentenced. There's different reasons for that. Probably the most important is that the state wants time to prepare a pre sentencing report.

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_00] This is basically a document where all available information, including personal information about the recently convicted person is collected. Maybe there's things in there that might be reasons to give the person a lesser sentence. Maybe there's things in there to give the person a stronger sentence. But basically, that sort of research wants wants to be done so that an appropriate sentence can be given.

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[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_07] I can appreciate that. So, again, since the sentencing occurs right after the jury's verdict, I guess some of the jurors could have gotten to say it. We don't know if they say it or whatnot, but if they wanted to, they could. They go right into sentencing, which of course includes victim impact statements. We first heard from Connie Hedgepath, Faith's mother. And I'm going to play a clip from her right here.

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_04] And I'm just glad that we have the closure that we need. I have peace. And I forgave. It was just three weeks after her death. It didn't matter who done it. I knew that I had to forgive. And I do forgive.

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_04] My heart aches for his family. We try to raise our children the best we know.

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_07] I'm so struck by her grace and her forgiveness of this man. I think that's incredibly powerful. I don't know if I could do that. If someone killed somebody I loved so they could just rape them. But I think it is a really powerful testimony to her faith and her convictions of wanting to forgive someone who trespassed against her in perhaps the most egregious way. One can do.

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_07] And, you know, wow. I mean, I just find that extremely profound. She was extremely grateful. Some of the themes that I got from the Faith's family's statements. Gratitude. Forgiveness. Not everyone, but many of them. And feeling sorry for his family.

[00:21:42] [SPEAKER_07] And thanking the jurors, even thanking the investigators, thanking the district attorney's office for never giving up. Sometimes in a case that lingers on for years, friction arises between victims' families and those charged with putting the case together and investigating it. And that's understandable. There's frustrations. There's human frustrations. But in this case, what I heard again and again is we appreciate them. Yes, this took a long time.

[00:22:13] [SPEAKER_07] We've been waiting. But we're happy to be here now. And again, I just think that is a real testament to the character of Faith's family. And I feel like, I think the judge made a comment like this at one point, but I felt like you kind of got to know Faith a little bit through seeing the people not only talk about her and what she was like, but also what they were like. And I think they're very special people.

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_07] So that was Faith's mother. At one point, the judge said this that made me start tearing up because I just thought it was so. Well, here you go.

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_06] I'd like the mom to at least if she can stay at the table. That's just always important to me that he brought this child into this world. So I want her to be at this table.

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_07] He's making sure that Faith's mother has a place to sit while Faith's father is testifying. I just the compassion and thoughtfulness and humanity that Judge Gregory displayed throughout the trial. I mean, I've really come to like him a lot. I just feel like he was always kind of like very chipper in his own way and happy and kind of like trying to, you know, kind of move things along.

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_07] But like here it really got to be on display at the sentencing because his interactions with the family members. And he's just like so comforting and thoughtful and compassionate. And I just loved seeing that because these people have been through hell. And we all know that unfortunately the criminal justice system doesn't, it doesn't.

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_07] I mean, it's set up ultimately to try to, I think, you know, convict people who've done crimes and certainly look out for the rights of a defendant. But it's not really built for catharsis. Is that fair to say, Kevin?

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_01] Yes.

[00:24:12] [SPEAKER_07] Something we've heard from many, many victims' families. You think, okay, I'm going to feel something now and it's going to fix this situation. And it's like there's no fixing it because there's no bringing back your loved one. And even sometimes it can be re-traumatizing if things go wrong. It can be re-traumatizing. It can make things worse. So having a judge put so much care into how he interacts with these family members, it was just really beautiful to me. And I think he just seems like awesome.

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_07] So go Judge Gregory. So the next person to speak was Alexis Evans. This was Faith's niece, but they're really like the same age. Like she's like a year younger. She had an older sister. And they're like best friends. She talked about how her grandmother was stronger than her. Faith's mom was stronger than her because, you know, she has a lot of grace, the grace of God at every turn, she called it. And she said she was working on that.

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_07] So I took that to mean she's working on trying to forgive Salguero Olivares. And again, thanks law enforcement. But, you know, ultimately what this man took from their family is just irreplaceable because he took Faith. Here's a question, Kevin. Do you think you could forgive somebody if you were in their situation?

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_00] I don't know. I really don't. One thing I've heard people in this situation say is that when you forgive something, that's as much for you as it is for the other person, because it's letting go of an anger before it can totally consume and destroy you.

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_00] And if possible, they say it's helpful to just forgive and move on and remember your loved one as they were. I don't know if I could do it or not. What about you?

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_07] It would be hard for me if the person didn't admit to wrongdoing and like didn't and continue to fight on appeal because it's like. It would keep coming up. That would be hard. I think I would just be hard with my personality. I don't know if I could let it go. I would I would like to think I would ultimately, but I don't know if that's being fully honest with myself.

[00:26:32] [SPEAKER_07] You know, I think I would have a really hard time with that. Next, we heard from Skylar Steverson, who referred to Faith's mom as her grandmother. And so another relative, she said that she also felt sympathy for the convicted murderer's family. And talked about how the loss of Faith really shook the family to its core. And she was only a junior in high school when it happened.

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_07] But, you know, they felt she felt very unsafe in college. Couldn't really enjoy it just because of what this man had done. And of course, if you love someone and then they're killed, the circumstances in which they're killed are going to reverberate and possibly affect you. And. You know, she's like, if he can, you know, basically it's not over and we will always keep fight to keep her name alive. And the last family member we heard from was Roland Hedgepeth.

[00:27:30] [SPEAKER_07] That is Faith's father. And. Talked about what his daughter was like, really a joy to meet. And. How his heart has been ripped out by this whole thing and the whole family's heart has been ripped out. And he didn't have the right to do this to his daughter. And he said that he. Forgave him as well. I'll I'll let you hear from him now.

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_02] I have to forgive the person who did this. And, you know, I thought about it. I'm really from day one. Uh, kind of like Connie mentioned earlier. That this was something I had to do. And for a long time. Uh. I thought. I thought I had already done it. Okay. But. It's easy to forgive somebody. You don't know who it is. Okay. And. Of course.

[00:28:29] [SPEAKER_02] That got more real. On September 16th and 2021. And a day it got very.

[00:28:35] [SPEAKER_07] I thought again incredibly powerful. These people have been so hurt by this. Convicted murders vile actions. And then the lack of even knowing. The lack of answers all these years. I again I thought the judge just. Handled handled this aspect of it. Just so. With such compassion and such thoughtfulness. Of. Some of the things he was saying to the family.

[00:29:05] [SPEAKER_07] In this moment. In what must have been extremely difficult moment. And yet. And also. Much awaited moment. We heard from. Mr. Stone. Of the prosecution. He asked for. Four consecutive sentences. Defense attorney Rainsford. Responded. There's no discretion for first degree murder. But maybe. Can the other sentences not be consecutive. Kevin. Can you break down for us. What the heck does any of that mean.

[00:29:32] [SPEAKER_00] So. What that means is that in North Carolina. There are certain mandatory minimum sentences. That a judge must give. In other words. He doesn't have a lot of freedom of action. You know. In some states. With some offenses. A judge. May be able to say. Oh. Consentance them to 10 years. 15 years. 20 years. No. In North Carolina. They don't have that kind of discretion. There is a statutory. Mandatory. Minimum sentence.

[00:30:02] [SPEAKER_07] Okay. That makes sense. So. Kind of. Corrals. What the judge can do.

[00:30:07] [SPEAKER_00] So.

[00:30:08] [SPEAKER_07] There's that. And. Then there's consecutive. What does that mean. When we're talking about multiple sentences. Why would. Mr. Stone. A prosecutor. Want. Consecutive sentences. And why would Mr. Raines. For the defense attorney. Say. Oh let's not do them consecutive. Let's do them concurrently.

[00:30:28] [SPEAKER_00] So. Basically. What this. This means. Let's say. That. You. Anya. For some offense. Served concurrently. That means. That when you're serving. The six month sentence. For one. You're basically serving. The six month sentence. For all of them. Because you're serving. All the sentences. At the same time.

[00:30:57] [SPEAKER_00] And that would mean. You would serve. Your three. Six month sentences. In six months. If they were served concurrently. That means. That you had to serve them. Separately. In other words. You serve your first. Six month sentence. And then you serve. Your second. Six month sentence. And then you serve. Your third. Six month sentence. So in that case. If you got. That kind of sentence. You'd end up serving. 18 months.

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_07] That makes sense. So consecutive. Is. Usually. Good for. The prosecution. And concurrent. Is good for the defense. Yeah. Usually. Because concurrent means. We're doing them all at once. All in one fell swoop. As. As the bard said. And in the other instances. We're going to put them. Back to back to back. And we're going to line up. The years of your sentence. Until it reaches the moon. And you know. It's going to be a lot longer. Is that. Yeah. A stupider way to say it.

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_01] Sure.

[00:31:54] [SPEAKER_07] Cool. I'm not going to beat. I'm not going to beat. The frigging. Serial charges. After all your. Liable. I'm literally wearing. Captain Crunch socks. Right now. Because one of our listeners. Got me though. So thank you to that listener. They're very nice. But. Yeah. I would have to make sure. I don't wear these. To the. My sentencing in that case. All right. So. Concurrent and consecutive. That's what that means. The. Judge. Sort of spoke to the defendant. At this point. Judge Gregory. And talked about how like.

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_07] He wanted him to understand. That he. Very much had a jury of his peers. That there were. Individuals who are black. And white. Male and female. Different people from different backgrounds. On the jury. And that they all took it seriously. That they were watching the whole thing. And very engaged. And. That. You know. He had a. He had a shot here. Because these people weren't reacting out of anger. These people were like looking at the evidence. And. He also made. The following statement about.

[00:32:51] [SPEAKER_07] He really didn't use this as much of an opportunity. To kind of. Be on the pulpit. Like sometimes you see judges do this. Where they're like. You know. You're going to hell for what you did. You son of a bitch. And like you totally. I mean like I get that. That would be me. Like you know. Like. You are an awful person. And you should. Rot. I mean. But again. I think some judges are like. I'm not going to do that. He really. Didn't opine much. But here is one thing he did say.

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_05] This world. Why people think it's okay. To kill somebody. But I'm not supposed to understand. Things that are beyond. Comprehension. There's a higher power.

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_07] So yeah. Pretty. Pretty understated. And. He went on to sentence him to the following. For count one. First degree. Murder. He. Has to sentence him to life. Without. The possibility of parole. Mandatory minimum. I guess. Count two. First degree. Burglary. He felt the appropriate sentence. Was what Mr. Stone proposed. Which was 64 months. Minimum. 89 months. Maximum. With an. Done at the expiration. Of count one.

[00:34:08] [SPEAKER_07] And then for the rape. 240 months. Minimum. To 300. 348. Months. Maximum. Same for sexual offense. Both to be. Served. At the end. Of the previous. Sentence. So. Yeah. I. That's pretty much as bad as it gets. Because obviously like life without parole. He. It basically means he'll never get out of prison. Yes. So the other stuff is just kind of like.

[00:34:37] [SPEAKER_07] Adding on to that. It doesn't really. It's not that it doesn't mean anything. It's acknowledging those horrible crimes. In and of themselves. But it's like. It's tacked on to the end of a life sentence. So it's like he'll be dead. Dead. Right. Yes. Like it's it ultimately. It's like kind of just almost like. I don't know. Sometimes I remember like in swimming. I used to swim as a kid. You know someone was.

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_07] If someone was kind of slow. You might start lapping them. Where you're like not just beating them in the race. But you're like actually laps ahead of them. And it sort of feels like that equivalent in sentencing. You know it's like this. We're almost just. It almost doesn't matter anymore. Because you're already going to die in prison. What do you feel about this sentence.

[00:35:28] [SPEAKER_00] I think it's appropriate. This person shouldn't. Get a chance to take another breath of air is a free man. And it sounds like he will not.

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_07] Yes.

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_00] What do you think of it.

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_07] I think it's appropriate. I think anyone who deprives someone of their life. For such selfish reasons. I don't. I don't need them out breathing. You know free air. With me. I mean I think that's appropriate for that. I don't feel like you can. I don't really care about rehabilitating that person honestly. I guess it's not even. I don't know if it's possible or not. If maybe it is. I don't really care. I think that's so bad. You should just go away for life. I think that.

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_07] I prefer to see rehabilitation measures be attempted with people who've done less harmful things. Things that are not irreplaceable in the way that a human life is. He gave faith can't come back. She. Stopped living her life when she was only 19 because this guy decided that. He wanted to rape her or he wanted some kind of revenge or who knows why who cares. I mean it doesn't matter.

[00:36:38] [SPEAKER_07] Either way it was stupid and selfish and disgusting. She didn't deserve it and. No one deserves it and I feel better with him being imprisoned. You're going to act like a disgusting. I don't want to say animal because like. I don't feel like there's like intent with animals even if they you know there might be violence. It's just like a monster. It's like a monster broke into this young woman's house and did this and I just feel like you know. Yeah you can just go in a cage for the rest of your life. I'm cool with that.

[00:37:08] [SPEAKER_07] I think that's fine. I think that's appropriate. In the in a case like this absolutely. It's not it's not some accident. You know this didn't need to happen whatsoever. At one point I didn't I didn't catch this. But. Some of the media that I read around this I watched the stream.

[00:37:28] [SPEAKER_07] And then I also was you know kind of looking around at different reporting people said that he made some kind of comment about this not being fair and it's like buddy you want to talk about what's not fair. You're lying in your bed safe at home at night when you're 19 years old in college with the rest of your life ahead of you and some oaf comes in your room and smashes your skull in with a rum bottle rapes your unconscious body.

[00:37:57] [SPEAKER_07] And then leaves and then he gets to live for the next. Approximately decade of his life a free man doing what he wants when he wants to while you're dead and your family is shattered and your family is traumatized your friends are traumatized. That's not fair. You know this is just justice get used to it. I just just that of course of course.

[00:38:26] [SPEAKER_07] Oh a rapist is entitled. Wow news at 11. I mean yeah it mean it fits with what you'd expect but apparently his mom was running around crying and maybe having some kind of exchange again I didn't see that but. Hmm you know I mean the fact she was calling witnesses on his behalf I think just says a lot and it's like wow some some some woman's you know defending her you know toxic violent son to the hill never seen that before.

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_07] That never happens I'm shocked I'm being sarcastic obviously. I don't know sometimes people have kids who turn out really bad and I don't think it's really their fault I think it's just something went wrong at some point and maybe they tried to help them and it just didn't work out like people that happens. And then sometimes like I think people are raised to you know have values like being entitled and not really respecting other people's bodily autonomy and it's like I don't know.

[00:39:24] [SPEAKER_07] I think when you're a loved one of someone who's done something heinous and like so clearly has done something heinous like there's DNA that proves he did something heinous.

[00:39:35] [SPEAKER_07] I think you can like support that person without denying reality and continuing to enable but the problem is I think this is my observation a lot of the families that produce people who are capable of things like this are already dysfunctional and not the kind of places where honesty and truth telling are really paramount in the first place.

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_07] And so when people say like well his family standing by him my answer is who cares they produce this. Why would we care what they think. You know if they're traumatized by that too then that's sad but ultimately if it's a situation where no one's accepting reality on that side then my sympathy is a bit limited. I will not I mean I thought it was very nice that her family said that they feel bad for them. That's very nice.

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_07] I just think that I would feel bad for them if they were like yeah he did this and that's terrible if it's this kind of like no not my darling boy then I just we hear enough about that. So. That was the sentence. I want to just end talking about a topic that kind of is is relevant here. So Faith was a member of the Hollywood Saponi tribe. She was very much a part of that community.

[00:40:55] [SPEAKER_07] They're based around Hollister where Hollister North Carolina where she was from. And it's a I believe I was I was looking into the history there. It's a confederated tribe. So there's different descendants of different historical tribes including actually the. Nasiman.

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_07] Including the Nanseiman tribe which actually has like a huge history in Virginia with with Jamestown. It's very documented in some of those early historical chronicles. A very interesting and often tragic history based on the way they were treated by the European settlers. But it's it's very interesting to me. So she was very much a part of that vibrant community. She was involved in that in college even.

[00:41:46] [SPEAKER_07] And I think it's important to note that simply because there is a crisis of violence against indigenous women in this country. And it's we're talking about physical violence, sexual violence, intimate partner violence, stalking. It's it's a huge problem. And there's many missing and murdered indigenous women and girls across the country.

[00:42:14] [SPEAKER_07] It's hard to contextualize or exactly get the numbers on this because it's somewhat underreported at times. But from what my understanding for the Centers of Disease Control, they've done some research on this indicating that homicide was actually like the sixth leading cause of death among American Indian and Alaska Native females ages one to forty four. Sixth highest. It's up there. And I think this is important to point out.

[00:42:42] [SPEAKER_07] It's not really indicated to me in any capacity that faith and her her status as a Native American young woman played any role in what happened here. It seems like, unfortunately, it had more to do with her being a woman. You know, almost an instance of femicide where she's killed for being a woman because this guy wants to rape her. But at the same time, I think it is important to use this opportunity to note that this is a wider problem.

[00:43:11] [SPEAKER_07] And it's hopefully one that by calling attention to it and continuing to talk about it, we can make it so that people maybe feel comfortable seeking help if they need it. Right. If they're in a situation, if they if they're if they're living that or if not that, then making people in their lives aware that this is an issue. So if they're showing signs of something, maybe they can offer help. I just think it's important. Actually, right now.

[00:43:38] [SPEAKER_07] I'm I'm wearing a T-shirt that was given to us by the wonderful Taylor Chimony, and she is a Native American woman who actually was able to come on our show and talk about the unsolved murder of her of her relative Velda Chimony. And I'll link to that episode. But that's, again, another case where it's not clear that her being a Native American woman actually was a part of the motive.

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_07] But it just shows you it underscores a wider problem, hopefully, that we can all talk about and protect people in that community so that they're not going through that because it it affects way too many women. And it shouldn't it shouldn't be happening to anyone. And this should not have happened to Faith. By all accounts, Faith just seemed like a really nice young lady who is going places and just made other people happy and was just the kind of person you want to know.

[00:44:34] [SPEAKER_07] And she was only 19. She's barely starting out like she like she could have done a lot. She would have had a nice time with her family. Maybe she'd have a family of her own at this point. You just don't know the possibilities. And it just makes me really sad that she had that stolen from her because of someone else's incredibly selfish and disgusting decision that night.

[00:44:54] [SPEAKER_07] It's not right. And again, I I hope this underscores to people that there are really vicious, violent people out there who will use an opportunity to do serious harm to a complete stranger. And they are out there. They're rare, fortunately, but they do exist. Well, anyways, my my heart goes out to Faith's family. Again, this never should have happened, but I'm glad the jury got it right.

[00:45:23] [SPEAKER_07] I'm sorry. I'm just like, yeah, they got it right. This guy's obviously guilty. Yes. And hopefully this can give the family some level of peace. But yeah, that was it. Anything else you wanted to add?

[00:45:34] [SPEAKER_00] Very well said. Thanks.

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_07] And thank you all so much for listening. We'll be covering another trial in the future. Hopefully we can kind of get back into the swing of these trial updates. But I think it's something that we're interested in doing.

[00:45:49] [SPEAKER_00] Thanks so much for listening to The Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email us at murdersheet at gmail dot com. If you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

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