The Murder of Scott Macklem: The Guilt of Temujin Kensu: Kensu v. Kensu Part Two

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[00:03:42] [SPEAKER_08] I'm Kevin, and today we are going to be continuing our discussion of what is happening in the court proceedings involving the end of the marriage of Temujin Kinsu and Paula Kinsu. Content warning. Since this is a Temujin Kinsu episode, there's maybe talk of murder, violence, sexual abuse, coercive control, animal abuse, coarse language. Just about everything imaginable this man is capable of. Did I leave anything out on you?

[00:04:11] [SPEAKER_03] Rape?

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_08] Rape.

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_03] Sexual abuse?

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_08] I think I mentioned sexual abuse, but certainly rape as well. So if you haven't listened to our previous episode, part one, you probably should go back and do that. We're talking about the end of the marriage of Paula Kinsu and Temujin Kinsu. I think we gave all the context there. Do we give any context at the top of this episode? No.

[00:04:33] [SPEAKER_03] I mean, if you want context, go back and listen to the second one. It's probably—I mean, the first one is probably—it makes sense to listen to part one and then get into this one.

[00:04:41] [SPEAKER_08] Okay, then let's get to it.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_03] My name is Anya Kane. I'm a journalist.

[00:04:46] [SPEAKER_08] And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney.

[00:04:48] [SPEAKER_03] And this is The Murder Sheet.

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_08] We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases. We're The Murder Sheet. And this is the murder of Scott Macklem, the guilt of Temujin Kinsu. Kinsu v. Kinsu, part two.

[00:05:50] [SPEAKER_08] You know, Anya, this is one of those times where the listener knows more than us because I'm hoping we can get through this in one more episode of Reasonable Length. But, like, the listener probably can look and see how long this episode is and you know whether or not we're able to do that or not.

[00:06:05] [SPEAKER_03] Dramatic irony.

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_08] Let's see what we can do. Last we left off, we just had Temujin Kinsu publicly expressing all sorts of romantic, sweet sentiments about the new woman in his life.

[00:06:22] [SPEAKER_03] His new media liaison.

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_08] One Deb Possil, who hails from Australia. And this comes up in a filing from Paula Kinsu. And Paula, in her filing, is about to address a concern that perhaps some of you have, which is that these communications to Ms. Possil about these romantic feelings, they happened after Paula asked for an annulment. So how are they relevant here? Read from Paula's filing.

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_03] Although plaintiff is not requesting post-December 19th, 2025 records through these subpoenas, defendants' rapid post-filing public relationship and domestic planning involving Ms. Possil slash O'Sullivan provides a good faith basis to determine whether communications calls, visitor list activity, relationship planning, or other contact involving Ms. Possil slash O'Sullivan existed before plaintiff filed for annulment and during the alleged marriage period.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_03] Ms. Possil slash O'Sullivan is therefore a specific factual basis showing why the requested discovery is not speculative. Plaintiff filed this annulment action on December 19th, 2025. Within weeks, Ms. Possil slash O'Sullivan had traveled from Australia to visit defendant in Michigan. And by March 3rd, 2026, she was communicating that a home slash farm near Macomb had been located, inspected, paperwork signed, and a deposit paid. Exhibit B.

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_08] Well, let's check out that exhibit. These are messages sent from Deb Possil on March 3rd to someone. I'm not sure who she was sending them to. Anid, you want to read these messages? They're basically text messages.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, this is Debbie Possil, 5.56 p.m. Hi there. Wanted to let you know we found a place to Attica, a 10-acre farm. I've had an inspection done on it, and we signed the paperwork and paid a deposit. It's old, but has heaps of outbuildings and lots of potential and is close to Macomb. I'm putting my house on the market next Wednesday, so expecting it to sell quickly and move over there within about five weeks. Fingers crossed, fingers crossed, fingers crossed emoji.

[00:08:29] [SPEAKER_08] Go on.

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_03] It was fast, but Timogen found it and really wanted it with the outbuilding, so had to move quickly. I'm so sorry I didn't tell you last week, but there are so many things happening. I'm losing track of days, and I'm forgetting stuff. Thank you for doing so much. We appreciate it. I hope I can take you out for a meal, though, when I get back over there to thank you properly.

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_08] Okay, again, not sure who she sent that to, but at the very least, Anya. Would that seem to confirm to you that Ms. Possel and Mr. Kinsu did indeed buy a residence together?

[00:09:00] [SPEAKER_03] Yes.

[00:09:01] [SPEAKER_08] So with that said, let's get back to Paula's filing.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_03] These facts do not prove by themselves that pre-filing communications existed, but they provide a good-faith, non-speculative basis to request MDOC records to determine whether communications calls, visitor list activity, or relationship planning involving Ms. Possel-O-Sullivan existed during the alleged marriage period.

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_03] Exhibits A through C are submitted solely to demonstrate plaintiff's good-faith, non-speculative basis for requesting limited non-party discovery and are not submitted for the purpose of asking the court to decide the merits of the annulment issue at this stage. In an April 10, 2026 MDOC Notice of Intent slash Contraband-Related Record, MDOC documented altered J-Pay tablets found in defendant's area of control and referenced materials concerning defendant's current visitor, including photographs and materials connected to that visitor.

[00:09:51] [SPEAKER_03] Plaintiff understands the reference current visitor to be Deb Possel slash Deb O'Sullivan. Plaintiff cites this record only to show a good-faith basis for seeking MDOC-maintained contact slash visitor records, not to embarrass any third-party. Exhibit C.

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_08] So I love filings with lots of exhibits. So Exhibit C is a notice of intent from MDOC, which of course is the Michigan Department of Corrections. It's a notice of intent from them to conduct an administrative hearing. I'm going to...

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_03] We covered that when his contraband got...

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_08] This is a separate matter.

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_03] Oh, this is different. Okay. Well, geez. Okay.

[00:10:30] [SPEAKER_08] You're talking about something we covered in September, and this is a new offense that occurred in April. This happened again.

[00:10:36] [SPEAKER_03] Oh, my gosh.

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_08] This happened April 10, 2026. So this is not what we covered earlier.

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_03] It's almost like he thinks the rules don't apply to him.

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_08] And I'm going to read this. Quote, while performing a search of prisoner Kinzu's area of control, four altered JP5 tablets and one JP6 tablet were found. The JP6 tablet contained several pictures that are a violation of MDOC policies.

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_08] The pictures found was a roadmap with directions from a house to Macomb Correctional Facility, several topless pictures of Kinzu's current visitor, and pictures of Kinzu's current Facebook profile picture. The JP5 tablets have all had the backs removed and have attempted to be re-secured. Geez. So, as you mentioned, I understand why you'd be confused for a second.

[00:11:29] [SPEAKER_08] He had a similar offense for having altered tablets, I think, in September. This seems to be something he does a lot. There certainly seems to be every reason to believe that he continues to access the Internet in an unauthorized manner from behind bars. And I would hope that at some point Michigan does a better job of controlling him.

[00:11:52] [SPEAKER_03] I think Michigan should just permanently revoke some of his privileges if he cannot follow the rules. This is, I mean, it just seems like I don't think he has a privilege to be able to continue to use the Internet and harass people and whatnot. And if he's continuously breaking the rules, maybe that's not technology that he should be given.

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_08] And Miss Paula indicates that, you know, she's talking a lot about Miss Possel, but that's not the only person she's interested in. I don't think we need to read this part. Actually, Paula is saying, I'm interested in any communications he might have with people that might show that he had these beliefs and he was hiding them about the need for a non-monogamous relationship.

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_03] Mistresses, girlfriends, other prospective Cathalian wives, so to speak.

[00:12:46] [SPEAKER_08] And she is asking, in fact, for any electronic message conduct that has certain words in it. And I will read these words that she is looking for in messages either to or from Mr. Kinsu.

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_08] The words marriage, married, married, wife, husband, fiancé, girlfriend, boyfriend, partner, love, romantic relationship, sexual relationship, intimacy, monogamy, exclusivity, plural marriage, polygamy, sister wife, sister wives, spiritual wife, second wife, home together, house together, release planning, living together, moving to Michigan or relocation, travel from Australia to Michigan, legal representation, power of attorney, plaintiff.

[00:13:33] [SPEAKER_08] Any substantially similar relationship, marital, romantic, sexual or domestic planning terms. That's a pretty comprehensive list. What do you think?

[00:13:43] [SPEAKER_03] Indeed.

[00:13:47] [SPEAKER_08] Let's move on to another exhibit she filed with the court. She says that this exhibit supports the things she has been alleging is described as exhibit one. I am a Cathalian and I want a Cathalian. And wife. This is a transcript and screenshots, including December 5th and December 16th, 2025, sister wives communications and the December 19th, 2025 termination communication.

[00:14:15] [SPEAKER_08] Do you want to read how she describes this?

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_03] This document contains a transcript of the screenshots of the telegram conversation between plaintiff Paul Kenzio and defendant Timogen Kenzio occurring on November 22nd, 2025, between approximately 1.23 a.m. and 3.30 a.m. Some messages within the conversation were deleted by defendant soon after he typed it. As a result, the text square may appear non-consecutive. However, the screenshots included here were captured contemporaneously by plaintiff and reflect the conversation as it occurred.

[00:14:46] [SPEAKER_03] The document also includes subsequent communications dated December 5th, 2025 and December 16th, 2025, in which defendant referenced the television program sister wives and raised the concept of plural marriage. These communications are relevant to plaintiff's claim of misrepresentation and lack of mutual assent regarding the nature of the marital relationship.

[00:15:07] [SPEAKER_08] First of all, before we get into this, it's interesting to me, Paula Kenzio had a job and he's keeping her up until 3.30 a.m. And I think a lot of us who have been following this case closely have noted that there have often been a flurry of angry messages from someone connected to Timogen Kenzio in the overnight hours.

[00:15:33] [SPEAKER_08] And I wonder if it is perhaps easier for Mr. Kenzio to evade whatever rules he's operating under and surreptitiously post things to the Internet or text people in these hours, like 1 to 3 a.m. or whatever. What do you think?

[00:15:48] [SPEAKER_03] I agree. And in Michigan, you know, like at some point, does this just get taken away permanently? At some point, you know, I mean, what are like it just seems kind of outrageous that this man has a Telegram account that he's able to use?

[00:16:02] [SPEAKER_08] Yes, I don't understand it because especially when you consider his history of harassing people outside of prison from behind prison bars. I don't understand why this is allowed to continue.

[00:16:17] [SPEAKER_03] I mean, I'm supportive of prisoners who are following the rules and not doing things that they're not supposed to be doing, having access to the outside. And maybe that could be even helpful for them to have something to look forward to. But this is not this guy.

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[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_03] So it just seems pretty outrageous. So shall we read these screenshots?

[00:19:04] [SPEAKER_08] Yes. We're going to do the best we can, ladies and gentlemen. As she seems to indicate there, he apparently was like deleting messages through this. So some of these things seem to be a little repetitive or seem to be in a confusing order.

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_03] We'll try to skip over repetitions. Yes.

[00:19:23] [SPEAKER_08] But please be patient with us.

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_03] Okay, so I'm going to be Paula. You're going to be Kenzu.

[00:19:28] [SPEAKER_08] Yes.

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_03] Go ahead. Hello. Crashed. Bedtime. Good night. Love you. TTYT.

[00:19:36] [SPEAKER_08] Really pissed.

[00:19:37] [SPEAKER_03] Don't be. It's bedtime. Get some rest.

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_08] Tired of this.

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_03] Mary got hair around her eyes trimmed earlier.

[00:19:46] [SPEAKER_08] Since you're never going to read the book I wrote, send it to Michelle in Australia tomorrow. Make sure you use a safe-tracked method. Confirm you're shipping the book.

[00:19:55] [SPEAKER_03] I'll ship it like you asked. It's almost 2 a.m. Good night, ZZZ.

[00:20:01] [SPEAKER_08] Good.

[00:20:03] [SPEAKER_03] You've got every right to be proud of your work, and I'm proud that you finished it. I also feel like it was something personal between you and Amico. I know she helped you with every page. Josie also wants to read it. I forgot to tell you that.

[00:20:15] [SPEAKER_08] It has nothing to do with any of that. It is what I believe. It is a huge part of who I am and always will be. I want a Cathalian for a wife. You never tried to understand, better yet, practice any of it. You never will. And no, Josie absolutely cannot see or have that book. Go to bed, Paula.

[00:20:35] [SPEAKER_03] Timogen, you married a Christian. You know that's who I was, and I thought I was getting a Christian husband, which is who I thought you were.

[00:20:45] [SPEAKER_08] You know nothing about real Christianity. You know what you think it is, and you have no interest in learning anything else or more. I've spent over 50 years studying faith. You won't even read the original Christian doctrines. I'm done talking about this.

[00:21:01] [SPEAKER_03] Timogen, I never agreed to be a Cathalian. Nobody knows what that is. I'm not saying this to be mean.

[00:21:08] [SPEAKER_08] And you don't know what that is. Many do. And did all through history. Cathay is a historical city. Look it up. The Cathal capital was Samara. Why are you still writing? Let it go.

[00:21:25] [SPEAKER_03] Okay.

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_08] We're just too different.

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_03] We live in two completely different worlds.

[00:21:31] [SPEAKER_08] In too many ways.

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_03] We are both under extreme pressure from our situation. You hate where you are. And I hate that I'm still here struggling and fighting. It's a lot emotionally. Maybe it's not that way for you, or maybe you're just used to it by now. But with this insane world stacked on top of all these daily challenges, it just feels like I'm kicked in the head every day.

[00:21:53] [SPEAKER_08] I am not you. I do not feel or whine about pressure. As for this world, if you'd ever read my book, all of this is covered and much more. It is a complete path.

[00:22:06] [SPEAKER_03] I get that life's a path and a journey, Timogen. Everyone's unique. You can't force somebody down your path. My path is my path. I never agreed to be a Cathalian. That's just something I think you thought you'd just convince me of later. We talked about reading the Bible together, Timogen. And every single night, remember? And you said you'd celebrate the feast with me from Leviticus 23. I was looking forward to that.

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_08] I never tried to convince or convert you. You know that. But all that is taking place now reaffirms what I once taught myself. I predicted all of this at the very prison and others. If the Azor, the path, had been allowed to flourish, there would likely be millions of restored Cathal now. Amico got over 2,000 requests for services right after we posted much of the doctrine online. This was also right when she was diagnosed.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_08] The Cathal would have grown to a point of power and influence that would have freed me long ago!

[00:23:07] [SPEAKER_03] I know you didn't try to convince or convert me. You never said you were still and would always be Cathalian at all.

[00:23:17] [SPEAKER_08] As I said, we are too different. You fight me on everything. Five years later, you are in terrible shape. You do not train in self-defense. You do not shoot. You ignore.

[00:23:27] [SPEAKER_03] Advance? Advance. Temujin, I'm in survival mode every flipping day.

[00:23:32] [SPEAKER_08] Well, I am. You are as well, though you don't care who you truly are, where you come from, who your people were, and what they believed. They were not wandering Jews, Paula.

[00:23:42] [SPEAKER_03] You're right. We are very different. I've never claimed to be like you, and I don't want to be. I'm just trying to live my life the best way I can with what I have. I'm not in training camp. I'm out here holding everything together. I've done my part, and I need that to be enough.

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_08] Stop with this stupid, selfish, and very new age worldly rhetoric. Then go your own way. Why are you still on here wasting both our time? You're not helping.

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_03] I'm doing the best I can.

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_08] Okay, so.

[00:24:11] [SPEAKER_03] Good Lord. So much to unpack.

[00:24:13] [SPEAKER_08] One thing I just want to mention at the outset, it starts out like around 1.30 or whatever it was in the morning with her saying, I'm very, very tired. I want to go to bed.

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, and he doesn't want that. I mean, he keeps saying, why are you still talking to me? But I, I, I, geez, I, I don't even know. What else do you want to say? There's so much. He wants her in a training camp. He basically says she's not fit enough for him. She's not doing enough for him. There was one thing that really stuck out. Oh, oh, okay. Let's talk about the elephant in the room. So had Denise lived.

[00:24:49] [SPEAKER_08] There'd be millions of Cathalians. Yeah. And then we have so much power that he'd be a free man because.

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_03] This is legitimately what he thinks.

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_08] Obviously millions of people were prepared to rally to a religion whose primary tenet is Temujin Kenzu is really cool.

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_03] I mean, judging from, you know, the initial true crime reaction, maybe, maybe that gave him hope. I feel like, I feel like you have to understand that he thinks his religion is a key to political power and that, you know, you have mainstream media outlets to this day running headlines about how he's a political prisoner. He's not talking about politics as far as we understand it, as far as like Democrat, Republican in the United States.

[00:25:29] [SPEAKER_03] He thinks that he is about to unleash a sort of a Great Awakening style thing where we all convert to Cathal. Leaders convert to Cathal and he becomes such a political issue that it forces Michigan to release him.

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah.

[00:25:43] [SPEAKER_03] I know that sounds totally nuts. And it is.

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_08] It is. It is. It's ludicrous.

[00:25:47] [SPEAKER_03] It's crazy. It's totally crazy. It's a bizarre combination. Paul is saying no one knows what Cathal is, is the funniest thing in this too.

[00:25:54] [SPEAKER_08] She's absolutely right. It's a bizarre mixture of inflated self-worth and just sheer stupidity.

[00:26:00] [SPEAKER_03] Remember when he was talking, we did this, so much of this reflects the Denise Tapes episode. So if you haven't listened to those, I would really strongly recommend it. It can be hard to listen to him berating this poor woman, but it very much shows the pattern. But I remember in that he was talking about how like thousands or millions or some exorbitant number of law enforcement officers are converting to Cathal or at least curious about the Cathal and supporting him.

[00:26:25] [SPEAKER_03] And that always just struck me as the funniest thing of like you just have a Cathal cops throughout the nation rising up. I mean, I just like I'm sure we have some law enforcement listeners. And, you know, if you're Cathalian, definitely weigh in. You know, we definitely want to we don't want to we don't want to like not hear from the Cathalian cops. But he just has this really inflamed ego that's just totally not in lockstep with reality.

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_08] Who wouldn't look at a man whose life choices have landed him behind bars for the rest of his life and think that's the guy I want to follow?

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_03] Especially police officers who are like, you know, their whole job is to put away bad guys. So they're like, yeah, this guy's this guy's got this guy's got his life together. I'm going to become a Cathalian. I mean, I don't it's it's it's it's bizarre. It's it's he wants to feel powerful. He wants to feel and and it's also a way to beat up on people because, you know, obviously it's not his fault that people don't want to join his cult, his movement, his whatever.

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_03] It's the fault of these dumb women who are supposed to be helping him and failing at every freaking turn. You know, it's just wanting someone else to blame. It's not him. I mean, if he was doing it, it would be the global religion. We'd all be Cathalian. Kevin and I would be Cathalian. We'd have no choice. But, you know, I mean, if if if it's these if he's left to these, you know, women who were trying to help him and just failing, I mean, definitely their fault.

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_08] I feel calling his beliefs a religion is unfair to religion. I feel calling it a cult is unfair to cults. It smears the good name of cults. It's just unreadable stupidity.

[00:28:03] [SPEAKER_03] It's a cult in my mind. It's not a very popular one, though. I do think it has some adherence, though.

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_08] So I'm going to read a little bit more from her filing with a quote within the next one to two days after this conversation, plaintiff promptly contacted an attorney after learning about the defendant's stated Cathalian requirement for marriage in order to discuss legal remedies to void the marriage. It became clear from this conversation that the defendant had not abandoned the Cathalian doctrine.

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_08] The next exhibit is basically her communication to Temujin Kensu on December 5th. She sent him a message at 11.03 p.m. And. Oh, pardon me. Yes.

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah.

[00:28:54] [SPEAKER_08] So do you want to read this? Should we read this conversation?

[00:28:57] [SPEAKER_03] Sure. I'll start with in the message. Yeah. In the message, defendant stated that in this is December 5th, 2025, 11.03 p.m. And this is defendant sending it to plaintiff via telegram. So Kensu sending it to Paula via telegram. In the message, defendant stated that he had been watching the television program Sister Wives and described plural marriage as an ancient practice allegedly permitted in the religious texts.

[00:29:22] [SPEAKER_03] Defendant then asked plaintiff's opinion about having a sister to share life, friendship, faith, home duties, training, etc. With. Plaintiff understood this message to be the defendant proposing or normalizing the concept of additional female partners within the marital relationship, which plaintiff had never agreed to and which was never disclosed or discussed prior to the marriage. Plaintiff did not respond to this statement by sharing her opinion and change the subject.

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_03] Note, defendant addressed plaintiff using the acronym BNFB, which stands for baby ninja fairy bear, a nickname defendant regularly used for plaintiff in personal communications. This communication is significant because it reflects defendant's belief that plural or multi-partner marital arrangements were acceptable or contemplated within the relationship, a concept that was fundamentally inconsistent with plaintiff's understanding of the marriage as a monogamous unit.

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_03] Plaintiff submits this message as evidence relevant to the issue of lack of mutual assent to essential marital terms and misrepresentation regarding the nature of marital relationship. This was the first explicit communication which defendant raised the concept of additional partners within the marriage. Do you want us to read this?

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_08] Let's read these. I'll be Mr. Kenzie, you'll be Paula. All right. Been watching Sister Wives lately. This is an ancient practice also permitted in the Old and New Testament, as well as the usur, the law of the Cathal. What do you think about this observance, about having a sister to share life, friendship, faith, home duties, training, etc. with? I will accept and respect your advice on this, BNFB.

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_03] Heart, heart, heart, right?

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah.

[00:31:01] [SPEAKER_03] I love the Scott video slash recreating the angle idea. Wonder if Den could help with that.

[00:31:09] [SPEAKER_08] I want to put a rush on this. We cannot wait on Den unless he thinks he can help us quickly. I have a good feeling about this. Crazy that I even have a signal now. Usually nothing in my cell and with the door closed.

[00:31:22] [SPEAKER_03] Videos are not my strength. We need to find someone to help. I can't. And then it cuts off. Who the heck is Den?

[00:31:27] [SPEAKER_08] So apparently they had some idea to do some video. With Den. Two N's. To recreate the angle of the shooting of Scott or something.

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_03] Oh, I'm sure that'll be really accurate and honest, you know, because these guys are just.

[00:31:40] [SPEAKER_08] But the important thing is he's raising these issues and she immediately changes the subject to something else.

[00:31:45] [SPEAKER_03] Shiny keys. Look at the shiny keys. Look at the jingling keys. Yep.

[00:31:50] [SPEAKER_08] I'm going to read some more from her filing. December 16th, 2025. Follow-up message. Defended again to reference the concept of sister wives. Plaintiff did not engage in the discussion and instead responded briefly regarding routine matters involving the household trimming the dog's nails. Let's read these.

[00:32:11] [SPEAKER_03] All right. Are we allowed to. I don't. Is this name something we can read aloud?

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_08] Why don't you read the first name but not the second name?

[00:32:20] [SPEAKER_03] I don't know if Herb interviewed.

[00:32:24] [SPEAKER_08] That would probably be Herb. Herb. Herb. They're investigating.

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_03] Okay. I'm going to start over. I don't know if Herb interviewed blank or not. I don't remember him saying he would.

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_08] You know, you never answered my question about sister wives. Not just biblical as well, but also New Testament. It's in a word-for-word message Herb sent you in which you sent me on J-Pay. Please look for it. I just saw it last week, but I can't search on the kiosk.

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_03] I was grinding Boner's nails. What? First of all. I was grinding Boner's.

[00:32:56] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah, that sounds like some sort of sexual euphemism. But she explains that's just she's talking about doing maintenance on a dog.

[00:33:05] [SPEAKER_03] Is the dog named Boner?

[00:33:07] [SPEAKER_08] Dog must be named Boner.

[00:33:08] [SPEAKER_03] Why did they do that to the dog?

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_08] So she's doing something involving grinding on the dog's nails.

[00:33:14] [SPEAKER_03] And the dog, they named the dog Boner. Okay. Let's just move on.

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_08] Let's just move on from grinding Boner's nails.

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, we don't need to do that anymore.

[00:33:23] [SPEAKER_08] I'm going to read from this. Finally, defendant's statements revealed a fundamental disagreement regarding the nature and exclusivity of the marital relationship, which plaintiff understood to be strictly monogamous. Defendant's position regarding plural marriage was therefore fundamentally inconsistent. With the plaintiff's understanding of the marriage. Plaintiff did not agree to, endorse, or acquiesce in defendant's express position regarding plural marriage.

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_08] Upon learning of defendant's stated views regarding a Clethalian wife and plural marriage, plaintiff promptly sought legal counsel and filed for annulment on December 19, 2025. Prior to these communications, defendant had never disclosed any beliefs that the marriage could involve additional partners or plural marriage arrangements. Plaintiff entered the marriage with the understanding that the marriage was monogamous. So here's another exhibit.

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_08] This is the message she sent to Temujin via text, a text service of some sort on December 19, 2025. Why don't you just read this message that she sent him?

[00:34:28] [SPEAKER_03] Temujin, I want to be direct and honest with you. I will not be coming down to visit this weekend. Legal paperwork related to our marriage has been sent to the facility and would be handled through official channels. I'm cutting off direct communication effective immediately so that the legal process can proceed without further conflict. Based on recent conversations about the life you want going forward, I'm releasing you from the obligations of our marriage so that you are free to pursue that without conflict.

[00:34:54] [SPEAKER_03] Your personal property and funds will be safeguarded and handled appropriately. I'm not making any public statements and I will not be speaking to media or podcasts about our relationship. I will continue to support your innocence. I've already spoken publicly many times on that subject and I will not be doing additional podcasts because I have nothing further to add. Please do not ask other people to contact me on your behalf.

[00:35:18] [SPEAKER_03] There is no discussion or debate needed on this and I am confident this decision will ultimately be healthier for both of us. Any attempts to involve third parties to contact me after this message will be considered harassment and I will seek a personal protection order if necessary. I know this is difficult to hear, but...

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_08] And then it cuts off. So, that's a pretty direct message.

[00:35:39] [SPEAKER_03] Oh, yeah. Certainly.

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_08] Okay. I want to discuss another exhibit that Paula filed with the court. She describes it as selected pre-marriage, monogamous, exclusive relationship representations by defendant. In other words, this is things she received from Mr. Kinsey prior to the marriage where he led her to believe it would be some sort of exclusive relationship. Now, unfortunately, these appear, which he includes with his filing.

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_08] They appear to be Xerox copies of handwritten communications. And frankly, these copies, many of them are of such a poor quality. They are literally physically difficult to read. So, I wanted to pick as a representative example the one that I thought was the easiest to read. And pardon me, as I struggle through this.

[00:36:36] [SPEAKER_08] Quote, dear baby bear, thank you for loving me, for fighting for us, for believing in God and this true miracle he has given us. You have been so wonderful and it brought me more joy in this place than I ever knew outside of it. My heart, my body, my love, and my life are all yours and yours alone. I have never felt the things that I feel for you or the way I feel about you. We are one, my princess.

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_08] My world is nothing without you, your husband in Christ. Temujin Kinzu. Temujin Kinzu. So, yeah, this is, I think we talked about this in our previous episode. He has a tendency of trying to woo people by, pardon me, by telling them what they want to hear.

[00:37:22] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, clearly what they want to hear. He's clearly, you know, the Christian faithful husband who wants her and her alone. And that's simply not who he is.

[00:37:31] [SPEAKER_08] That's not who he is at all.

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_03] Instead of being honest about that and sort of, you know, going into it from the perspective of, I'm just going to be honest that I need you to be a Cathalian. I need you to come into this from a perspective of being okay with some of these things. I mean, to me, you and I can certainly say, well, the context of that is kooky given that it's all about his own personal cult. But at the very least, that respects people's consent about whether they want to get involved in it or not.

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_08] Yes.

[00:38:02] [SPEAKER_03] But that's not what he's doing.

[00:38:03] [SPEAKER_08] Not what he's doing at all. So she also files a timeline of the relationship and how she understood it to be monogamous. I don't know if we need to go into this timeline in depth. What do you think? I feel we've already covered most of it.

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_03] I mean, I'll just briefly say they got married November 4th, 2022, day before the anniversary of Scott's murder. Creepy as heck. And by November, November, 2022, 2025, a little bit over three years later, that's when he starts hitting this. Cathalianism is really important to me. And Sister Wives comes out, you know, talking about that in December. And she files for annulment December 19th, 2025.

[00:38:46] [SPEAKER_03] So it ended pretty quickly. She says after this Cathalian stuff started coming back up.

[00:38:53] [SPEAKER_08] And again, that's crucial because if she had stayed married to him for an extended time after she realized what he expected, that would weaken her argument.

[00:39:03] [SPEAKER_03] Right. That's right. All right.

[00:39:06] [SPEAKER_08] So at this point, Paula now files a narrower request for telephone recordings. Earlier, of course, she made a very, very broad request for all of his communications with almost any female over a period of some years. That's pretty broad. I think we could all agree that's pretty broad. But now she is zooming it in on what she considers to be most important. You want to read this?

[00:39:32] [SPEAKER_03] Sure. Plaintiff's brief in support of requests for approval of subpoena for limited telephone recordings. Plaintiff Paula Kenzu, appearing in propria persona, respectfully requests approval of a narrowly tailored subpoena seeking unredacted telephone recordings or transcripts between defendant Timmajian Kenzu and Deb Possel for the period of November 18th, 2025 through December 19th, 2025. In support, there are plaintiff states as follows.

[00:40:00] [SPEAKER_03] This matter involves plaintiff's claim that her consent to the marriage was obtained through fraud and concealment of material facts concerning defendants to beliefs regarding monogamy and Cathalian doctrine and the role of other women within that doctrine. The requested subpoena is narrowly limited to a one-month period during which significant communications occurred concerning defendant's relationship with Ms. Possel and the party's discussions regarding defendant's spiritual teachings and future plans.

[00:40:28] [SPEAKER_03] Plaintiff seeks these recordings because they may contain information relevant to plaintiff's claims and defenses, including evidence bearing on defendant's intentions, representations, and relationship with Ms. Possel. The nature and scope of the project defendant and Ms. Possel repeatedly discussed in J-Pay communications obtained through prior court subpoenas. Exhibit A.

[00:40:49] [SPEAKER_03] Defendant's intentions regarding the expansion and dissemination of the Cathalian doctrine, including his efforts to enlist plaintiff's assistance in transmitting his writings to Ms. Possel's associate in Australia. Defendant's relationship with Ms. Possel. Defendant's intentions concerning monogamy and the future structure of the marital relationship. Factual background. On November 25, 2025, defendants sent a written communication Exhibit A to Ms. Possel stating...

[00:41:15] [SPEAKER_08] So we're going to get to that exhibit in just a second. Before we do, I want to make... Again, Mr. Kinzu, I say this a lot. He's not a smart man. He's also not a well man. Because there's quite a paradox here. We've seen many indications, many examples of him wanting to act to others. This book is not that important to me.

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_08] I don't even want Josie, my advocate Josie, to read this book. You, Aaron, you're doing this series on me. It's not important to me. He downplays it. But at the same time, simultaneously, he's trying to work with Ms. Possel on some project that involves spreading his writings to as many people as possible, including people in Australia.

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_03] Be aware, Australian listeners. It's coming to you. You're all going to become Cathalian within the fortnight.

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_08] Isn't that a bizarre paradox? He's ashamed of it, but he also wants to spread it as wide as possible.

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_03] No, it's not really. When you look at him as a narcissistic manipulator who will use people to his ends, he has no problem lying. If he's lying in furtherance of his own goals, he's self-aware enough, not very self-aware, but self-aware enough to realize that people like Aaron Habel, people like Josie Rice Duffy,

[00:42:39] [SPEAKER_03] may have concerns about him being a cult leader, and it may make it difficult for them to honestly report on him like he's a normal, nice, cool dude who just got in trouble because he had sex with too many women and was too good looking. Okay? He's self-aware enough about that.

[00:42:57] [SPEAKER_03] So he'll just tell them what they want to hear, and they'll dutifully report that, like stenographers, and, you know, won't dig too deeply into it, and then he can get away with that and then be doing what he wants to do on the side. And that's why I think it's really important that folks like Josie Rice Duffy and Aaron Habel maybe look into it more than just what he's saying,

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_03] and perhaps if they've been led astray, at least in the case of Aaron, where his show has come out, be prepared to issue some additional corrections or notes within the episode indicating that more information has come out to the contrary. It's not both sides if you're not including both sides.

[00:43:36] [SPEAKER_08] Yes. So this exhibit, this is a message that Temujin Kanzu sent to Ms. Passel on November 25th, 2025. I'll just read the whole thing. Subject line, he sent this through J-Pay. J-Pay is, I think, the authorized way to have electronic communications from behind bars. Subject line, hey, kiddo, sending this again. As for books, I'm looking for the Tibetan Book of the Dead and the Egyptian Book of the Dead to start.

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_08] I'd like them in hardcover because anything else tends to get damaged or ruined in here. They should probably come directly from Amazon, but I'm pretty sure they will have a good selection, and thank you very much. I'm pretty excited about our new project. Paula, as you know, has not been helpful with any of this to the point where I just stopped bringing it up. I've been wanting to get all this done for so very long, actually since Amico passed in 2012. You would have loved her, and I know she would have loved you. I'm even more anxious to see what you think as you read it all.

[00:44:35] [SPEAKER_08] I was blown away when you told me about putting the three braids in your hair. This is an ancient tradition. I wish I could have seen it. If you do it again, make sure to take a photo for me. The elder way is to wrap things at the end of the braids. Amico had little Tibetan silver bells, a circle cut open lengthwise with a tiny silver ball inside. I don't know where she found them. She wrapped her braids in thin colored cords as well. Burgundy, black, and silver are the traditional colors.

[00:45:03] [SPEAKER_08] This is all part of the jurat, which for bonded women, once sworn to the path, includes a small tattoo over above the left ear. These are normally also traditional symbols like a dragon, phoenix, crane, snake, tiger, etc. It's a very noble sign. Getting cut off. Okay, that's what he sent her. A couple of days later, she also, on J-Pay, she sent him kind of a longer message. Do you want to read what she wrote him?

[00:45:31] [SPEAKER_03] What Deb Possel wrote him?

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_08] This is Deb Possel writing to Temujin Kinzu.

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_03] Over J-Pay on November 28, 2025.

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_08] Yes, sir.

[00:45:39] [SPEAKER_03] Definitely not a cult, right? So, hi there. Thank you so much for sending the J-Pay again. I have no idea why your first reply didn't come through. I haven't heard from you for a few days. I hope all is okay. I've become used to daily calls, so when they stopped, I had to admit I started to worry something may have happened. And I canceled our video chat this week just in case there was a problem at your end, and I didn't know. I'm not sure if this was the right thing to do, and you might be disappointed now, but it's hard to know how everything works there.

[00:46:08] [SPEAKER_03] And if I would just be sitting there waiting for you and no Temujin, lol. Well, if you get this soon, let me know if I made a mistake or if I can book another catch-up. It's coming to a new month now, so I also want to make sure I don't interfere with video calls you need with Paula or for legal matters. So Amazon does have the books you want in hardcover, but not available currently. Barnes & Noble do, though, so I just want to make sure I can send you them from there before I order them.

[00:46:35] [SPEAKER_03] I can see where I can nominate a correctional facility to send to without appearing too rude. Macomb Correctionals seem a bit over the top at times, and it's hard for me to know what rules they have as sometimes you seem to be targeted by staff. And I don't want a simple thing as my gift of books to be declined because they don't like Barnes & Noble for whatever reason. So anyway, just let me know, and if it's all good, hardcover copies will be posted to you ASAP.

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_03] I've booked my holiday. Yay! So that means I can come and visit you as well, if still okay. I'll be in your neck of the woods Friday 30th January and leaving Tuesday 3 February. So I believe, as discussed, I should be able to make the most of the time and visit three times January and three times February. I will, of course, need to discuss with you the booking side of things so you know I am coming.

[00:47:27] [SPEAKER_03] You will need to prepare yourself for an Aussie invasion, as I plan on using all the visiting time I can, so just know your ears may start to hurt by the time I'm gone. The Australian twang can grate on some people after a while, but I will do my best not to talk too much and let you get a few words in yourself. I have looked at the map, so I know a place to stay that's reasonably close to the facility.

[00:47:49] [SPEAKER_03] You look like you're in the middle of a whoop-whoop, but it's probably not as far as the map makes it appear, LOL. I have decided to stay at a hotel so I can find one with a gym, of course, because I am hopeless and I am unsure I can go a full five days without doing a workout, especially if I'm traveling a bit as well. I also need Wi-Fi, which seems to be hard to get in hotels over there.

[00:48:14] [SPEAKER_03] I mean WTF! Nearly every place has no Wi-Fi, which blows my mind. It's a given over here that you have free Wi-Fi in every place you stay. Not sure why you Yanks have an aversion to free Wi-Fi at hotels, but you are all a bit odd to me. Emoji emoji. Emoji, I am so excited to read your book. You have no idea how excited.

[00:48:36] [SPEAKER_03] I know we have briefly spoken about what our individual beliefs are, and you know mine is something I can describe as I believe in the universe, with some Buddhism beliefs as well. Being grateful for everything important to me and love the idea of expressing gratitude for meals, waking up each morning, and for good health in general, etc. The idea of your book covering everything we do in life interests me, and I feel we have similar beliefs in a lot of things, and I've been trying to find something not mainstream, but also something with meaning for a long time.

[00:49:06] [SPEAKER_03] This could be what I have been looking for, and I will resonate with. I'm also excited to help you in our project, and get it out there. I'm ready to do whatever I can because it seems so important to you, and you deserve to have your work celebrated. I have brought colored ribbon, so I can try to braid my hair and also purchase some silver Nordic hair beads I really liked. I know it's not Tibetan, but I was drawn to the beads, so hopefully it's not disrespecting you in any way.

[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_03] I should get them plus this amazing Celtic ring, petite dragon ring, and another ring I liked as well within the next two weeks. Next on my list are the joint compounds and vitamins I promised I would purchase, so help with my ongoing health and joint issues as I am getting old, but I refuse to age like people expect me to, lol. I have hopefully engaged great HR lawyers and encouraged they will do a good job helping me with my workplace.

[00:50:00] [SPEAKER_03] I am sure that idiot Kenny will not be expecting me to get a great legal team as he thinks I am weak and will just roll over and accept his bully tactics and intimidation. I think I have a strong case, so fingers crossed I can cause some stress for him and get a good result at the end of it. How are things in your end? When will you see anything from your interviews the other week, like an article or feedback or whatever you're expecting? I am so grateful so many people are stepping up more and trying to get you out.

[00:50:29] [SPEAKER_03] I know it will happen, and soon, but I just have to leave it to the universe to do its work and be calm so things work in your favor. I know it will happen, but I am so grateful for you to read and reply to all the J-Pays you must get, as per usual. I enjoy our communication and go a bit overboard, I know, but that's just me. Please take care of yourself and be safe. I worry about you a lot and send positive thoughts to you as well.

[00:50:59] [SPEAKER_03] As always, there are so many danger words from down under. The boys are going well and getting closer to the chop each day. I clean pee off the floor, just FYI. I will get them to the vet by mid-December, but will let you know the date, because I know how you feel about the procedure when they're only nine months old. But it has to be done to hopefully stop the peeing everywhere. And yes, I am trying to be the alpha.

[00:51:24] [SPEAKER_03] I am stopping them jumping on my bed unless I say yes and trying to do the same with the lounge. Baby steps, LOL. And it's a lot of hard work and repetitive shit and running around the yard, after them retrieving articles of clothes and shoes still. Drives me insane when they act crazy. Then they hear your voice on the phone when you call. And they calm down, basically, and just stare at the phone or try to lick it. Like, seriously, drives me insane. Okay, rambling again. I'll definitely go now. Take care.

[00:51:54] [SPEAKER_03] Think of us all down here and all the danger words we have to give you. Talk soon, and we are all thinking of you. Me and the boys.

[00:52:05] [SPEAKER_08] Okay, Anya, before we talk—

[00:52:06] [SPEAKER_03] Can some Australians weigh in? What is whoop-whoop and what are danger words?

[00:52:12] [SPEAKER_08] Before we talk about what Paula thought was important about that, I'm curious, what are your reactions or insights or what have you to that letter? Other than me, I think you're furious with Kenny.

[00:52:24] [SPEAKER_03] I support Kenny. Okay, Kenny in Australia, let's talk. Okay, I don't know who you are or what you were doing, but I imagine it was probably not as bad as being made out to be. Whoop-moop means the middle of nowhere in Australia. And danger words mean, I guess, harmless everyday terms. Like, oh, I guess—okay, I guess it's basically like how in Australia,

[00:52:52] [SPEAKER_03] sometimes things don't mean what they mean here in the United States. Like, I've heard people call flip-flop—what we call flip-flop footwear in the United States, thongs, which is like an undergarment in the United States. So maybe it's that. I don't know.

[00:53:07] [SPEAKER_08] Any other insights? It sounds like she's really trying to please him, even doing her hair a certain way.

[00:53:12] [SPEAKER_03] She's doing everything. She's letting him control her life religiously, health-wise. She's giving in to him on everything. This is just a setup for disaster. And I grieve for her as an individual and for people who love her, who are afraid—that you should be afraid for her. This is really disturbing. This woman is uprooting her entire life to give everything to this man, and we know how he treats people who do that.

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[00:54:41] [SPEAKER_08] Why don't you read from Paula's filing what she considered to be most interesting or relevant from that letter?

[00:54:49] [SPEAKER_03] Sure thing. Talking about what Possel's letter was, Paula notes,

[00:55:22] [SPEAKER_03] quote, about sister wives and sharing life with other women, as reflected in the telegram transcripts previously submitted to this court. This temporal proximity provides a reasonable basis to believe that the requested recordings may contain information directly bearing on defendant's intentions concerning the marital relationship. Additionally, Ms. Possel later traveled to Michigan and subsequently conveyed an interest in Michigan real property to defendant.

[00:55:47] [SPEAKER_03] The communications described above create a reasonable basis to believe that the telephone conversations occurring during this same time narrow time frame may contain relevant evidence regarding defendant's intentions, beliefs, and representations concerning the nature of the marital relationship at a minimum. The requested recordings may contain information relevant to plaintiff's claims and defenses concerning defendant's intentions, representations, and relationship with Ms. Possel during the period immediately preceding

[00:56:16] [SPEAKER_03] to plaintiff's filing of this action. Plaintiff is also aware subsequent to these communications, Ms. Possel added defendant to the title of Michigan real property exhibit C. While plaintiff does not contend that this fact alone establishes the nature of defendant's intentions, it further demonstrates that the relationship between defendant and Ms. Possel was sufficiently substantial and ongoing to justify limited inquiry into the nature of their earlier discussion and their project.

[00:56:40] [SPEAKER_08] So we're going to talk about this exhibit C, but I really want to zoom in on this. It's saying there that basically what happened is Ms. Possel bought some property, this 10-acre property, and she put, after she bought it, after the sale was complete, she put Mr. Kenzu's name on the title in exchange for a dollar.

[00:57:06] [SPEAKER_08] She is giving him co-ownership rights in this property. And this deed is included in this filing. And we're not going to dox Ms. Possel or Mr. Kenzu by giving the address of the property in question. But we did look it up on Zillow.

[00:57:28] [SPEAKER_08] And according to that site, the property sold in April of 2026 for $260,000. It was in June that Ms. Possel essentially gave a half interest in that property to Mr. Kenzu. Now, it is not clear, Anya, from the files just how this purchase was financed. No, it's not.

[00:57:55] [SPEAKER_08] I did see something in there that, you know, I think in her communication to someone we don't know, Ms. Possel indicated that she was selling a house. So maybe that helped finance it.

[00:58:05] [SPEAKER_07] Yeah.

[00:58:06] [SPEAKER_08] But basically, the question I would have is, did Ms. Possel pay for this purchase herself? Or did Mr. Kenzu contribute funds? If he contributed funds, it would be easier to understand why she's putting his name on the title. Mr. Kenzu seems to answer the question about whether or not he contributed funds to this purchase in a post he made on Facebook on July 12, 2026.

[00:58:35] [SPEAKER_08] We should note, Mr. Kenzu, as we've repeatedly established, not an intelligent man, also not a very clear communicator. No. So it is not completely obvious what exactly he is trying to say here. Also, as we have noted before, he has a long and well-chronicled history about lying about absolutely anything and everything under the sun if he believes that doing so will serve his interest.

[00:59:03] [SPEAKER_08] With that said, let's get to this post that he made on July 12. It is basically a rant against someone he feels is working with Paula. I'm going to go to number eight on this long post where Mr. Kenzu writes, told my ex he helped do paperwork to help me hide my assets via my lady friend's home. And probably an even stupider lie than the others is there was a crystal clear trail of the home with only her money.

[00:59:33] [SPEAKER_08] Of course, he can produce no paperwork. So what he seems to be saying there is that the money for this house purchase, all the money for this house purchase came from Miss Postle. If that is true, and Anya, I'll grant you that is a very big if, I would be very, very concerned if I was someone who cared about Miss Postle.

[00:59:57] [SPEAKER_08] Spending over a quarter million dollars on property and then turning over half of it to Mr. Kenzu, that would be very worrisome behavior indeed, don't you think?

[01:00:08] [SPEAKER_03] What people who may know Miss Postle, I don't know what her life circumstances are. She has people who are concerned about her. And certainly if you are in that camp, you know, murdersheet at gmail.com. We talk to a lot of people who never come on the show. We're not going to, you know, if you want to talk off the record, we're fine with that. We understand the sensitivity of the situation. But she's not only possibly putting a significant amount of money,

[01:00:36] [SPEAKER_03] thousands of dollars down or deposit or who knows what exactly is going on here, but a significant chunk of money, real estate is not cheap. But she's also moving to a new country. She's leaving her old life behind in Australia, converting to this guy's religion seemingly, or his made-up religion, and offering to live a Catholic lifestyle for him and basically doing everything for him. She's totally giving him seemingly control over her life in every way.

[01:01:04] [SPEAKER_03] I would be terrified if this was someone I cared about for their safety. And it's not, again, we've noted, like, he's in prison, so, like, he can't come out and, like, beat somebody up. But there are other ways you can be hurt by him. And we've seen it happen again and again. Denise had her life ruined by this guy. He ruined her life. He, like, tormented that woman before she died. Paula is making it very clear that she was also subjected to coercive control behavior

[01:01:34] [SPEAKER_03] and is afraid he will intimidate, harass, do things to her through others. And this woman is no different. This happens to everyone who tries to advocate for him. And I feel sorry for her. It's not a good position to be in.

[01:01:50] [SPEAKER_08] It's not a good position to be in. And if I was someone who had a personal connection to Ms. Possel and cared about her, I would be very, very concerned indeed. So, on June 29th, 2026, just a couple of days before a scheduled July 1st hearing, Mr. Kinsey replaced his attorney. Don't know why. His previous attorney, as we mentioned earlier, was a guy named Jeffrey Perlman from June 29th on. He's represented by Paula Fisher.

[01:02:21] [SPEAKER_08] After this hearing on July 1st, the judge in this case, Cassandra Morse Bills, issued a few orders. I just want to highlight a couple of them. In one, the court ordered that, quote, annulment is not statutorily permitted or appropriate here, end quote. So she's saying that, no, Paula can't have her annulment. And she further indicates that the matter will proceed as a divorce proceeding pursuant to

[01:02:51] [SPEAKER_08] counter complaint and discovery will be permitted. So they're saying from now on, Paula's request for an annulment is out. This is going to be handled as a divorce in accordance with the counter complaint that Mr. Kinsey filed soon after the request for annulment. Judge Morse Bills also indicated that there was no reason for this case file to continue to be sealed.

[01:03:19] [SPEAKER_08] And so it was unsealed. And that's the reason why we were able to get these files, because it was no longer sealed, because the court no longer felt there was a reason to keep it sealed. And again, it was a post from Mr. Kinsey himself that gave us an indication that that might have changed. We thank him for that. Otherwise, I don't know if we would have thought to check. So thank you, Mr. Kinsey.

[01:03:45] [SPEAKER_08] You might remember that after Kinsey filed for this, after Paula filed for this annulment, Mr. Kinsey did the counterclaim saying, no, I want it to end via divorce. And he asked for things like spousal support. So that's now what we have going forward. So now Paula filed an answer to his counterclaim. A lot of it is stuff I think we've already covered, but there are a couple of things in there that I felt were worth highlighting. Do you want to read a little bit from it, Anya?

[01:04:14] [SPEAKER_03] Yeah, absolutely. So this is starting with plaintiff admits. Yes. Plaintiff admits that the parties participated in a marriage ceremony on or about November 4th, 2022, but denies that the marriage was entered with mutual assent concerning its essential terms. After the ceremony, plaintiff learned through defendant's own writings and communications that defendant had concealed marital religious beliefs and marital expectations. Those communications included defendant's statements that a Cathalian is a huge part of

[01:04:43] [SPEAKER_03] who I am and always will be. Defendant later asked plaintiff's opinion about having a sister to share a life, friendship, faith, home duties, training, et cetera, with. Which plaintiff contends reflected concepts fundamentally inconsistent with her understanding of a marriage as an exclusive Christian union. Plaintiff knew that defendant had previously authored Cathalian writings, but defendant represented to plaintiff that he had abandoned those beliefs in 2017 and returned to Christianity.

[01:05:10] [SPEAKER_03] Subpoena produced evidence obtained during this action further reflects communications between defendant and Deborah Ann Possel concerning their project, including promotion of defendant's Cathalian writings and efforts to secure the domain, cathal.com.

[01:05:25] [SPEAKER_08] Cathal.com.

[01:05:27] [SPEAKER_03] God. And obtained software to create a concordance for further organization of one of his 589-page manuscripts. Those communications occurred while the parties were married and corroborate. Plaintiff's contention that defendant had not abandoned the Cathalian beliefs he represented he had renounced before the marriage. Plaintiff contends that this evidence corroborates her allegation that defendant had not abandoned those beliefs as he represented and that these communications reflected concepts that were fundamentally

[01:05:54] [SPEAKER_03] inconsistent with plaintiff's understanding of the marriage as a monogamous union.

[01:05:59] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah. Cathal.com.

[01:06:01] [SPEAKER_03] Get your daily dose of crazy at cathal.com slash murder sheet slash msheet.

[01:06:09] [SPEAKER_08] Uh, we mentioned earlier that Mr. Kennedy would ask for spousal support. I'm sure it will not surprise any of you listening that Paula does not feel he is entitled to spousal support. Anya, why don't you read Paula's reasoning on that?

[01:06:27] [SPEAKER_03] Plaintiff denies the defendant is entitled to spousal support. Plaintiff requests that the court consider all applicable statutory factors, including but not limited to the relatively short duration of the marriage. Defendant's incarceration throughout the entirety of the marriage in the absence of any shared economic partnership between the parties. The party's failure to establish a shared marital residence or household. Plaintiff's current unemployment and limited financial resources.

[01:06:54] [SPEAKER_03] Plaintiff's extensive financial contributions made during the marriage for a defendant's benefit, including financial support, preservation of defendant's claimed assets, and management of defendant's affairs.

[01:07:04] [SPEAKER_08] I think those are pretty good reasons. Yeah. We weren't married that long. He was in prison the whole time. He remains in prison. We didn't have a shared residence. I don't even have the money to do this, but I did while we were married. I made a lot of contributions for his benefit.

[01:07:20] [SPEAKER_03] It's outrageous. It's outrageous. I mean, it's ridiculous.

[01:07:23] [SPEAKER_08] You're talking about his attempt to get the spousal support and not her.

[01:07:27] [SPEAKER_03] No, she shouldn't have to pay that. That's ridiculous.

[01:07:30] [SPEAKER_08] Paula in this filing also makes a complaint about some of Mr. Kinsu's property. Why don't you share that with us, Anya?

[01:07:36] [SPEAKER_03] Plaintiff repeatedly made defendant's personal property available for retrieval and repeatedly sought instructions from defendant and defendant's counsel regarding coordination of pickup. Plaintiff preserved defendants claimed legal files, vehicles, musical equipment, books, electronics, personal effects, and other property while requesting that defendant arrange retrieval through his designated representative. In an effort to facilitate defendant's own requests, plaintiff also cleared the 2010 Ford van, photographed its condition after it was emptied, and packed more than 39 boxes of

[01:08:06] [SPEAKER_03] defendant's claim personal property into the van so that defendant's designated representative could retrieve both the vehicle and its contents in a single trip. This was done after defendant's financial information form indicated that he sought possession of all vehicles he purchased. Defendant thereafter declined to accept the van and instead requested money in lieu of accepting the vehicle. Plaintiff denies that any delay in defendant obtaining possession of his claim property resulted from any refusal by plaintiff to cooperate.

[01:08:33] [SPEAKER_03] Plaintiff remains willing to make defendant's claim property available through a reasonable court-approved retrieval process but should not be required to store or indefinitely maintain property that defendant has repeatedly declined to retrieve after being afforded reasonable opportunities to do so. Plaintiff has likewise preserved defendant's M37 Dodge military truck and trailer. Those items remain available for retrieval by defendant or defendant's designated representative.

[01:09:00] [SPEAKER_03] However, due to the size and specialized nature of the equipment, retrieval requires qualified individuals capable of safely operating the vehicle and attaching the trailer using appropriate equipment. Plaintiff is neither qualified nor willing to undertake those tasks because doing so could create an unnecessary risk of personal injury or property damage.

[01:09:20] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah, so basically she's saying he has all this property. He's not sending anyone to come get it.

[01:09:25] [SPEAKER_03] Wasn't this something we heard with Denise? Yeah, that he's got all this stuff and then he's accusing her of like accusing people of stealing it. But it's like he's just not sending any of his people to actually come get it.

[01:09:37] [SPEAKER_08] And there's also something delusional about the fact that he's used some of his resources to purchase all of these vehicles.

[01:09:46] [SPEAKER_03] A Dodge military truck. What are they going to do? Invade Michigan? I mean, what are we doing?

[01:09:49] [SPEAKER_08] No, what I'm saying is he's incarcerated. What good is a truck to him of any kind when he is incarcerated?

[01:09:57] [SPEAKER_03] He thinks he's getting out, Kevin.

[01:09:59] [SPEAKER_08] Yeah, this is what I mean. It's delusional. He's planning for getting out and he wants all these trucks and trailers.

[01:10:05] [SPEAKER_03] He wants a compound. He wants a cult compound. That's what all the outbuildings are for. That's what the Dodge truck is for. This is a cult. He's trying to be a cult leader. He's trying to be friggin. He's trying to be the David Koresh of Michigan.

[01:10:16] [SPEAKER_08] Yes. And people, again, need to look Mr. Kinzu in the eye. Look at him as he is. And don't believe, oh, it's not important to me anymore, ladies and gentlemen. I also wanted to.

[01:10:27] [SPEAKER_03] It's like Charles Manson saying, you know, the cult stuff's not important to me. I mean, maybe check that out. Maybe check that out. Maybe don't just accept what this guy is telling you at face value.

[01:10:37] [SPEAKER_08] And then ask yourself, ask yourself, if he has lied to me about this, what else has he lied to me about?

[01:10:44] [SPEAKER_03] Also, maybe use it as an experiment. Reach out to him and say, I know that's not true because this is happening. And give him an opportunity to respond. We don't begrudge anyone for putting out Kinzu's point of view. You should. I would like to. I would like to interview him and talk to him. He won't talk to us. So if people are putting out his side of the equation, that's totally fine with me. And that's even good. But let's not only put that out. Let's put the counter argument and let's ask this man some difficult questions.

[01:11:12] [SPEAKER_03] By doing so, we can actually produce something of value.

[01:11:16] [SPEAKER_08] On July 22nd, 2026, Paula Kinzu got an attorney. Up to this point, she had been representing herself. She is now represented by Jody J. Taylor of the Doak Law Firm. And that's where things stand, at least in terms of the files we got. This is a situation where if you want the files, you have to go through a process and you have to pay for them. And they're not cheap. So we do appreciate people when they give us financial support.

[01:11:46] [SPEAKER_03] That's what the buy me a coffee money goes for. Like this really helped us out here because we.

[01:11:52] [SPEAKER_08] Not just the buy me a coffee money, but the people who support us on Apple, people who support us on Patreon. You really make this possible. We try to make it up to you by giving you extra episodes, ad free episodes, early episodes. We really do appreciate that.

[01:12:07] [SPEAKER_03] Thank you guys so much. Seriously, like this would not have happened without you and we would not have gotten these documents. So this support, we try to we try to put the money back into the show by kind of like being able to get documents and do things like that. So this is the kind of thing that really means a lot and makes it possible for us to do this job.

[01:12:24] [SPEAKER_08] So, yeah, it does make it possible. And if you find this sort of thing valuable, please consider joining us on Apple or Patreon. I also want to say this is not like in Indiana when something new is filed in a case, you can go on a website and you just immediately get it. That doesn't seem to be how it works in Michigan, at least not according to my understanding. And future filings will also involve a process.

[01:12:48] [SPEAKER_03] Yes. Kind of makes you appreciate Indiana. No offense, Michigan. You're beautiful. I love you. But Indiana turns out to have like one of the best systems in terms of us getting legal filings, mostly because you're an attorney. But still.

[01:13:01] [SPEAKER_08] I also wanted to say I think I mentioned this at the top of the show. So I'm interested. A number of podcasters have had Paula on their show, including some podcasters who talk about how ethical they are. And while she's on their shows in the past, she's talked about how great Mr. Kinzu is, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now we know that when she was saying those things, she was basically being controlled by Mr. Kinzu.

[01:13:31] [SPEAKER_08] It was a coercive control situation. I wonder if any of those podcasters are going to address that. I also know Paula has been friends with people in the true crime community and got on their shows as well. They've all stood together. They acted like they were all friends. Are those people still friends with Paula? Do they support her?

[01:14:00] [SPEAKER_08] How do they feel about how Mr. Kinzu has treated their friend Paula? So these are just things I wonder as we prepare to wrap up. And we did get through it in another episode. Do you have anything you want to leave us with, Anya Kane?

[01:14:15] [SPEAKER_03] I just want to thank you for getting these documents. I just want to say Kevin really was very dogged about pursuing this and ultimately got them. But it took a while. And that wasn't through your lack of diligence. It just it takes a while in cases like this. And I want to appreciate, express appreciation for you for doing that. I want to note that, you know, we're not perfect in how we cover things.

[01:14:39] [SPEAKER_03] As we say, we've kind of gotten to understand more of the control coercion dynamic and intimate partner violence and how that can manifest itself in different ways. And I think this is for me, this this is kind of a solidification of what we have suspected, which is that Paula is a victim of Kenzu and should be looked at as such. Again, you know, that doesn't mean she's not capable of hurting others. And I think she has in her advocacy for Kenzu.

[01:15:08] [SPEAKER_03] But I think we need that understanding for people who get involved in something they don't really understand and assume that his release is imminent and that informs their behavior and informs their fear level in a very real way. But I just want to encourage other people who may know something about the situation. Don't be scared to come forward. We've had so many people come forward. And you know what?

[01:15:32] [SPEAKER_03] Those people have found community and they found comfort in the fact that others have come forward. And if you want to talk to us off the record, you don't want to be on the show, you don't want us using the information. That's fine. If you want to be like if you have information and you wanted to go out there, that's also fine. But reach out murdersheet at gmail.com. We can talk about it. And it can be something that you can consider because you're not alone. If you've been victimized by Temujin Kenzu, you are not alone.

[01:16:01] [SPEAKER_03] You are far from alone. We are barely scratching the surface here, folks. And we will talk to you and we will keep your confidence because we protect our sources. So that's what I want to say. Thank you all so much for listening.

[01:16:16] [SPEAKER_08] Thanks so much for listening to The Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email us at murdersheet at gmail.com. If you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

[01:16:34] [SPEAKER_03] If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com slash murdersheet. If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www.buymeacoffee.com slash murdersheet. We very much appreciate any support.

[01:17:00] [SPEAKER_08] Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for The Murder Sheet and who you can find on the web at kevintg.com.

[01:17:09] [SPEAKER_03] If you're looking to talk with other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening.

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