The University of Idaho Murders: Bryan Kohberger Pleads Guilty

[00:00:00] Summer's starting to swelter. And if you're like me, your wardrobe could use a warm up too, preferably without overheating your wallet. Vince is a company that gets you luxury goods without the high prices. We're talking about clothing and accessories and other items that are well made, high quality and stylish. Good stuff that will last you for years to come. They're able to keep their prices low because they cut out the middleman, making their items cost 50 to 80 percent less than those of their competitors.

[00:00:29] I went shopping on Quinns' website recently. I got their 100 percent European linen button front dress in blue chambray stripe. I love this dress so much. It's lightweight, it's so comfortable, and I really like the way I look in it. It's the kind of dress I know I'm going to be wearing all summer. I think it looks cute and it's just also super comfortable. When I'm in it, I feel like a stylish, sophisticated summer lady, and that's kind of a rarity for me in summer dresses, so I'm very excited about this.

[00:00:58] You should check out their site and get something too. I also will say I got a little blue beret because Kevin insists that I wear more hats. Quinns also has other 100 percent European linen dresses and shorts from $30. They have swimwear that will make you feel fancy at the beach or pool, as well as footwear like Italian leather platform sandals and more.

[00:01:19] Give your summer closet an upgrade with Quinns. Go to Quinns.com slash msheet for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash msheet to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quinns.com slash msheet. Having a hormonal imbalance can make you feel like you've landed in a baffling mystery story, only one with no ending.

[00:01:46] You feel bad, you feel off, and it feels like there's nothing you can do to fix it. It's unbelievably frustrating. Well, our sponsor Happy Mammoth is on the case. They are a natural wellness brand that can help you maintain your own optimal hormone levels. They focus on products that lead to hormonal happiness, as well as ones that improve your gut health. See, we all encounter hormone disruptors throughout the day, in our food, in the air, and even in skincare products. All of that saps away at our quality of life, frankly.

[00:02:16] Fight back by taking Happy Mammoth's quick two-minute quiz. They'll send you tailor-made solutions and recommendations about products that can help you. I personally love taking their Hormone Harmony supplements, which are for women at all stages of life. Ever since I started taking them, I feel my gut health and random cravings have really improved. For women who are in menopause or perimenopause, those Hormone Harmony supplements can help reduce mild mood swings and hot flashes, give you more energy, and help you get to sleep.

[00:02:43] For a limited time, you can get 15% off your entire first order at happymammoth.com. Just use the code MSHEAT at checkout. That's happymammoth.com, and use the code MSHEAT for 15% off today. Want to have the time of your life while also supporting veterans? Then our sponsor is definitely for you. We're talking about Hometown Hero. This is a company that crafts premium hemp products, from infused chocolates to gummies to drink mixes, whatever floats your boat this summer, and ships them out to you in discreet packages.

[00:03:13] And Hometown Hero also lives up to its name by giving back. See, Hometown Hero was founded in 2015 by U.S. veteran Lucas Gilkey. The company donates a portion of its profits to nonprofits that support veterans. We love a company that strives to support our veterans. Plus, they are all about quality. You know all of these products are made in the United States and tested in a third-party lab to ensure top-notch purity and safety.

[00:03:40] The hemp itself is all grown in Texas, and Hometown Hero is actually based in Austin. So you know exactly what's going into your Hometown Hero products. Most of their products come from live rosin, which is a cannabis concentrate extracted using only heat and pressure. No solvents. You're getting the plant's true essence. It's basically the cold-pressed juice of cannabis. And with that in mind, Hometown Hero has really got something for everyone to try. Even peanut butter chocolate squares. Reclaim your evening.

[00:04:09] Visit HometownHero.com and use code MSHEAT to take 20% off your first purchase. That's HometownHero.com, code MSHEAT, for 20% off your first purchase. Content warning, this episode contains discussion of murder and violence. So today is July 2nd, 2025, and Brian Koberger just pleaded guilty to the murders of Xana Kornodel, Ethan Chapin, Madison Mogan, and Kaylee Gonsalves.

[00:04:38] We just watched the hearing in which he did that, and now we're going to talk about it. My name is Anya Kane. I'm a journalist. And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney. And this is The Murder Sheet. We're a true crime podcast focused on original reporting, interviews, and deep dives into murder cases. We're The Murder Sheet. And this is the University of Idaho Murders. Ryan Koberger pleads guilty.

[00:05:50] You know, Anya, one thing that I thought was interesting was the way the hearing began. Pretty much right at the very beginning, Judge Hitler said, you know, I didn't find out about this hearing or this plea agreement until Monday evening. And he said he and his staff have been receiving a lot of communications from the public urging him to do this or that in regards to it. And he said, you know, I'm not reading any of that stuff.

[00:06:21] No. It's sorry. I ain't reading all of that, basically. But nor should he. And I love that he started out with this. I this judge has been I mean, Judge Stephen Hippler has been terrific, honestly, in my opinion. Like, I just think he's done such a good job of explaining stuff to people. But honestly, to anyone who sent anything to the judge or his staff, you are a deeply embarrassing person. You know, like I mean, like I understand that people like feel all heated about whatnot.

[00:06:47] But like learn about how things work before you do stuff like that, because if you know about how anything works, you would know that we should not have trial by mob in this country. We should not have online lynch mobs essentially going around and pushing pressuring judges into doing this or that. You do not want a judge to make a decision based on perceived sentiment from the public.

[00:07:12] You don't want whoever has the most supporters, for lack of a better word, to get the judge to rule in their way. You want the judge to make the decision based on the facts and the evidence of the law. And he also pointed out he has very little power here. Yeah, there's just so much wrong with doing this. And again, it's this kind of true crime Karen, you know, let me speak to the manager. I don't like this outcome.

[00:07:37] So I'm going to complain like attitude that people have that is just totally inappropriate when it comes to the law. Like that's not a good application here. If people feel fired up because they're unhappy with what their elected prosecutor is doing or they think they're soft on crime or too hard on certain crimes or biased or not not doing a good job. The remedy is to put up someone who you would prefer and get them elected.

[00:08:04] If there are judge races, pay attention to those and vote for who you think is going to do the best job implementing the law. Sometimes judges are appointed, though, so that's not always going to happen. But irregardless, sending a bunch of complaining like this is an Amazon customer service. Like it's like it's not it's not like, oh, no, like this isn't the outcome I wanted. So do something different. And we saw this with happen with Judge Francis Gell in the Delphi case and, you know, people, oh, she's so corrupt and awful and I'm going to send her an email.

[00:08:34] And it's just like, you know, you just outing yourself as someone who just doesn't get it. Basically, it was the judge's responsibility today to make sure that Kohlberger understood the consequences of pleading guilty. Because when you plead guilty to a crime or to a charge, you're giving up certain rights you have and you want to make sure that this man who's about to plead guilty, does he understand what he is giving up?

[00:09:02] And the judge also wants to make sure that the person who is pleading guilty actually committed the crimes he's pleading to. Those were his big responsibilities today. Absolutely. So immediately, Hitler's laying down the law, so to speak, and saying, you know, no outbursts or outbursts or demonstrations. If anyone tries anything, it's immediate removal and possibly you're not going to be allowed back in here. You know, by in here, I mean like other, you know, future proceedings.

[00:09:30] And he said it was highly inappropriate that people were trying to contact him and, quote, this court will never take into account public sentiment in making an opinion regarding its judicial decision in cases. End quote. And he's going to go, quote, based on where the facts in the law lead me. End quote. So I love that he said, I'm not going to read your stupid emails. I'm not going to listen to your stupid voicemails. Keep your stupid away from me. I'm going to forward all this to court security and, if necessary, law enforcement. Have a great day. So we salute him.

[00:09:58] He also points out that the level of communications he's receiving is a burden to court staff, who, after all, has a lot of other cases to work on. And also, not only that, but that it's disruptive to court staff and deeply unfair to other defendants in other cases who are having their case go through the process and other victims in other cases that are having their case go through the process. So, as usual, true crime stays embarrassing. And people who are too obsessive about one case basically ruin it for everybody else.

[00:10:28] So that's true crime in a nutshell in 2025. It's deeply unfortunate. And if, I guess, any of us, if someone comes to me and says, oh, yeah, I was one of the people aiming like, I would just say, you know, basically knock it off. Like, if that's, if your friends are doing that, if people you know are doing that, like, that's not a good use of their time or energy and they should be putting it into something else. Regardless of what their reason is. You know? Again, I get things get charged. I get things get emotional. But, like, people shouldn't be doing that. That's just ridiculous.

[00:10:58] It's embarrassing. Um, we have to make true crime better. We have to make true crime a place where people don't feel entitled to do stuff like that. Um, you know. So he talked about the separation of powers. Like, again, like, it's like a, it's like a teacher having to, like, explain to an unruly class, like, here's how things work, you fools.

[00:11:17] Um, he says, uh, you know, the prosecuting attorney is the sole authority in terms of determining what charges to bring, what penalties to ask for, for those charges. And that also includes death penalty. So he wrote, like, you know, people asking me to implement the death penalty no matter what. I can't require the death penalty. And let's think about this for a minute.

[00:11:40] Would we want to live in a system where, you know, the judge just comes in and says, no, this man must be executed. Ha ha. Like, like, let's think about that for a minute. That's awful. That's not how it should work. I mean, right? Absolutely. Like, no, I don't like this guy. So I think he's just going to be executed. Um, and as, as you said, he said, my job is to make sure this plea is made freely, clearly, and intelligently.

[00:12:07] Um, he is only going to reject it if the defendant did not admit to all the elements of the crime. And he wants to ensure that there's a factual basis for the plea. He did apologize. An interesting scheduling thing. We were kind of, and you expressed a little bit of concern about this behind the scene, Kevin. You were like, this is a really, like, tight turnaround in terms of a plea. Do you remember that? I do. Uh, I understand the reasons for it, which, uh, Hitler articulated, which I'm sure you're about to mention.

[00:12:36] But the idea of the plea coming in on late Monday afternoon, early Monday evening, and the hearing being on Wednesday morning, uh, my thoughts immediately went to the victims of the families. Or rather the families of the victims, pardon me, who, some of whom don't live in Idaho and will want to be there. And they're not really getting a lot of time to set up travel arrangements. No, it really was a tight turnaround.

[00:13:05] He apologized for that. He said that he learned about it with everyone else on Monday afternoon. And he noted that there was a short notice for the defendant's family as well as the victim's families. He said, quote, it was important I take the plea as soon as possible, end quote.

[00:13:20] And that was namely because, um, he, he felt that this, this whole thing has been such a kind of, um, intense responsibility for the court system that, okay, if there's not going to be a trial, we need to stop working on the trial at once. Because they had been going through, like, thousands of jurors to potentially, you know, prospective jurors to potentially pick up panels for the, um, upcoming trial.

[00:13:49] So it was kind of like, we need to lock this down. And I understand his thinking, but I also understand that that would be very troubling, you know, to have to run to Idaho for this, um, for the, for the people involved. He, um, he thanked the Ada County Sheriff, Marshal Service, uh, County Court Administration, and all the security. So he was very much like, you know, I find a lot of judges are very much, like, protective of their teams, you know. And I think we've, we saw that with Delphi to a certain extent.

[00:14:18] And we saw it with, um, we see it with Hitler here. So he's thanking all these people who are making it possible. And noted that a lot of them were taking vacations and came back from that because they were anticipating this trial happening later in the summer. So they kind of, you know, um, had to, had to kind of loop back. Now, as a reminder to people, Koberger was facing five counts. One count of burglary, um, and then four counts of first degree murder.

[00:14:47] And what, we got more information about what this plea deal is going to look like or what it, what it looks like. Um, it, it said that the defendant cannot argue for a lesser sentence. So he was going to get 10 years fixed, um, on a, on a burglary charge. Right. Right. Um, and then for counts two through five, each count would be a fixed life sentence.

[00:15:08] Uh, served consecutively, waived right to appeal as well as appeal the sentence and the right to seek leniency or reconsideration. So he's kind of throwing away his ability to do anything about it once he gets sentenced. Is that fair to say? That's fair to say. And so it was, uh, as we say, it's important that the judge make sure that Koberger understood what he was giving up. He's giving him quite a lot. I don't know. Like, again, I, we said this in our previous episode.

[00:15:38] I, I understand that people may want the death penalty in such a heinous case and they feel like, oh, now he's just gonna be able to go live his life. But this is, this is like in some ways like the worst outcome for him because he can't fight anything anymore. There's nothing more he can do. He's basically powerless at this point. Yeah, he's done. And like when people are saying, oh, well now he can just like sit back and do interviews about what he did in prison. I mean, I don't know what to tell you.

[00:16:07] The death penalty takes forever to be implemented. He could probably do similar things in that situation too. It's not like he would be executed next month. You know? We looked it up. Actually, the last time someone was executed in the great state of Idaho was in 2012. So it's not like they are executing large numbers of people. I understand that for some people, death penalty would be the only recourse here. But it's also not necessarily what the judge would have sentenced him to. So I don't know.

[00:16:37] I don't understand the reaction to this. I think it's mostly emotional. And then we've also heard from people who are like, oh, we're not going to learn the full story. And I get that. You know, you kind of want to know what happened. But I mean, not really from a reliable narrator either way. And I don't share the negative feelings about the plea. I understand it. I do understand it.

[00:17:04] What he did was so heinous that you want him to face the worst possible punishment, which I guess would be death. And so the idea that he doesn't have to face that worst possible punishment, I can understand why that would be galling. But at the same time, it is important to recall he's going to be in prison for the rest of his life.

[00:17:26] The family does not have to worry about the possibility of appeals and what all that might mean. I mean, you don't have to go through the trial where very, very strong case. You can never know what a jury might do. Certainly, there have been many recent cases where people have been surprised by jury verdicts that don't seem to be tied to the actual evidence.

[00:17:53] So I understand the emotional reaction. I still think this was the right thing to do. I completely agree. And I mean, again, I know the Gonsalves family is very upset about this. This is Kaylee Gonsalves' family. They've really slammed the prosecutors on this. And, you know, again, I tend to be like, well, victims' families are entitled to their feelings on things. But I think to see members of the public reiterating attacks on the prosecutors in this case, I don't think that's appropriate. I just don't.

[00:18:23] And also, the Gonsalves family is not the only family that lost someone in this situation. I've seen that the Chapin family have expressed support for this plea deal. So, I mean, there's a nature of compromise. Not everyone is always going to get what they want. But I think we're well beyond that, given that these four wonderful young people were murdered. And, you know, it's just you're kind of trying to mitigate and do what's right in this situation.

[00:18:47] As true crime people, we all know that scary things can and do happen all the time. Frankly, when you're least expecting it. Feeling safe at home is very important to Kevin and I. But in this day and age, I need more than just a good lock. I need a security company that makes it their mission to protect me and my family. That's why we love our longtime sponsor, SimpliSafe. We have used SimpliSafe for years. And that is because they are a company that you and I trust.

[00:19:15] They're not like other reactive security systems that only take action after a break-in. Their new Active Guard Outdoor Protection helps stop break-ins before they even happen. Think about that. No trauma from the violation of having your space invaded. SimpliSafe is proactive and can prevent the break-in from even occurring. We've had to deal with threats and scary situations of our own as we've reported on criminal cases.

[00:19:41] So having SimpliSafe protect our home allows us so much peace of mind. And we're not alone. Over 4 million Americans trust SimpliSafe. SimpliSafe is flexible and has options for everyone. Their monitoring plans start around $1 a day. They have no contracts or hidden fees, unlike some of their main competitors. They're great for renters and homeowners alike.

[00:20:04] Visit SimpliSafe.com slash msheet to claim 50% off a new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's SimpliSafe.com slash msheet. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. The prosecutors don't work for the victims' families.

[00:20:28] In an ideal world, you would have prosecutors working hand in hand and everybody's happy when it comes to both the prosecutors and the victims' families. But the prosecutors are not – the police and law enforcement officers and the victims' families are not their clients. The people of Idaho and the people of Latok County are the people they're representing, right? Yes.

[00:20:52] So, you know, it's not required that every decision – ultimately they have kind of a balancing act to do.

[00:21:01] And I think this secures justice for these four college students while also being, frankly, the practical best option and the one that leads to the less possibility for Brian Coburg or possibly making more mayhem down the road. I believe this – what happened today was justice. Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:21:31] You know, I think – I don't know. I'm, like, looking at the statement that Gonzalves family, like, released and I just – you can tell how angry they are. And I think you have to just – we have to understand that this is going to be a situation that would make anyone angry, you know? This is a situation where they're hurting and they're going through something in a very public sphere.

[00:22:03] I have nothing but sympathy for them. You know, but I don't think the hate that they're directing towards Thompson, prosecuting attorney Bill Thompson of Latok County is appropriate, frankly. And I also – I mean, it seems like they were the ones to basically call on people to reach out to Hitler, which, no, like, that's not appropriate.

[00:22:31] I think they have to – I think it's good for people to redirect some of the energy here into perhaps memorializing and remembering these four young people and what they – you know, what we're missing out on by the fact that they're not in the world anymore. One of the best things about this plea deal in my mind is that it means that after a couple of weeks, we don't have to think about Kohlberger anymore. No. He's going to be gone. I would encourage people not to. I mean, again, there's a lot of curiosity. Why did he do it?

[00:23:01] And I – I don't know. I think at some point, like, do we care? Like, isn't it just, like, some weird – isn't it very – doesn't it have the whiff of something that's, like, just a problem with women that went too far? Or, oh, I want to be, like, the smart serial killer type and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, you know, again, like, aren't we kind of giving him what we want when we kind of just, like, get really wrapped up in that? And get fascinated with him? Yeah, wouldn't it be better to just kind of say –

[00:23:30] Here's my question, which is, is there any reason he could give that would be good enough that would make us say, oh, I understand it now? No. I don't think so. I don't think so. And I'm going to tell you this. A trial can definitely be a place for a lot of details to come out. So, I mean, that's absolutely true. So people saying, oh, I wish there was a trial, totally understand that. And I agree. I would hope that since the case is closed, that some details could come out just through things like records requests or interviews.

[00:23:59] So that would be my hope. But I agree. A trial can be a great opportunity for additional things to come out. But I will say this. We sat through the Richard Allen trial in Delphi, and we wrote a book on the case, and we dug into everything we could. And I still don't have a detailed play-by-play about how every single thing happened and why every single thing happened that can answer every possible question.

[00:24:28] Because the fact of the matter is that one person knows all of that. And that person is Richard Allen, who is huddled in a prison cell somewhere under kind of layers and layers of self-pity and wallowing and support from stupid people who are fans of a child killer. And he's not really motivated to answer some of those questions.

[00:24:52] So, you know, at the end of the day, if someone's not motivated to tell the truth, if someone's not motivated to be truthful, if someone's not motivated to come forward, and even if they do come forward, are you really sure about this? You have a lot of cases where somebody comes forward and is essentially victim-blaming. Oh, yeah, I did this, but it was because they screamed or it was because they were trying to run away. I wouldn't have killed them otherwise. So, I mean, like, let's really assess the value of what Koberger's words would actually be.

[00:25:22] I mean, he's been arguing this whole time that he's innocent. So, I mean, obviously that wasn't true. So, I mean, what are we going to get from him? Again, I get it. I'm curious, too. I'd love to know some of this. But I just I would really encourage people. We very well may not ever get all the answers, regardless of trial or no trial. So, he's been arguing that he's innocent. At least that's what his attorneys have been arguing.

[00:25:46] Today, though, in court, he was asked a series of questions, which he responded, had basically yes, no questions. And he acknowledged through his answers today that he did these crimes. It was really remarkable to hear him just say, like, guilty. Yes, yes, yes. It was like he sounded very normal, sounded very, you know, matter of fact, whatever that means. He's wearing khaki pants, a grayish tie, white shirt.

[00:26:15] At one point, he kind of awkwardly stood up. And then Hitler's like, thanks for the sign of respect, but you can stay seated. He clarified that he's not under the influence of alcohol or drugs. He's thinking clearly. He understands the consequences of him pleading guilty. He's happy with his defense attorneys. He understands what this plea deal means. And then he went through it with the judge and essentially said, yes, I'm guilty of all these things. I did it.

[00:26:43] And we also heard from Bill Thompson, again, the Laidock County prosecutor. He went through the basically the state's proffer of what, you know, it's not all the like it's not everything, but it's like a broad, high level summary of what they feel the big pieces of evidence against Koberger are. And again, that's important because you want the judge to understand.

[00:27:06] Why the plea is happening if you want not only for the defendant to acknowledge, yes, I'm guilty, but you want the judge have an understanding on the record. Here's the evidence the state would have presented. So the so the plea is backed up by evidence. Yeah. And, you know, I told you, I think I think I've made jokes to you, Kevin, and I may have made jokes in our Facebook group. Like, prepare to see all the pro burgers melt down over some of this.

[00:27:36] And I've seen that and I've seen a lot of like, well, maybe he's guilty, but the state really bungled the investigation. I don't think they did. I think they did a good job. I think they had a lot of evidence against him. It was a strong case. Sounds like they got the right man. Oh, but Kevin, you can be guilty and still framed. I mean, it's just like, OK, like cope harder. You know, I don't like I don't know why we always have to do this. And, you know, one person on Reddit saying that, oh, the case was bungled does not make it so.

[00:28:05] Like, especially if you really can't cite anything relevant to that. I think they did a very robust investigation. That was very much clear to me from Prosecutor Thompson's statements. You know, is any investigation perfect? No. Does that should we expect that? No. I should we expect like competence and thoroughness? Yes. And I think we got that here. Yeah, every single investigation through all of history is done by human beings and human beings are not perfect and make mistakes.

[00:28:35] So you can find mistakes of some kind in any investigation. Oh, wouldn't have been better if they had done this or this or the thing to ask yourself is, are these mistakes, these inevitable mistakes, are they significant? Do they affect the result? And certainly in this case and maybe most cases, the answer is no. The evidence he went over went into Koberger purchasing an Amazon gift card in March 2022.

[00:29:05] He was residing at his parents' place in Pennsylvania at the time. He also then bought a knife, a sheath, a sharpener on Amazon. At the end of that June, he moved from Pennsylvania to Pullman, Washington to pursue a Ph.D. at Washington State University, which is, of course, in Pullman, which is right across the state line from Moscow, Idaho. He said that beginning in July 9th, 2022, Koberger began connecting to the cell tower that covered 1122 King Road, where, of course, the victims were murdered.

[00:29:36] Thompson was correct to point out that this is a densely populated area with a lot of college-related occupants living around there. So it's not like it's, like, tying him to that specific residence, but it's bringing him to that area. And then July 9th through November 7th, 2022, there's a number of 23 times his cell phone is hitting on that particular tower late at night, early into the morning.

[00:30:00] They do not have any direct evidence of, they do not have any evidence of direct contact with either the home or the occupants. But, again, we're putting him in the area. August 22nd, 2022, Latak County Sheriff's Deputy Darren Duke pulls him over around 11 p.m. West side of Moscow, it's a traffic stop. They get a sense of his car, they get a sense of his license plate, which is Pennsylvania at the time.

[00:30:25] Night of the murders, leaves the Pullman residence, phone is turned off, remains off for hours and hours. Video surveillance of businesses around Moscow and Pullman show a car matching the description of his car going towards there. This light Elantra is circling that neighborhood and stops at an intersection, does a U-turn. The defendant's car goes back and is believed to a park behind and above the King Road residence that he got through the residence through a sliding kitchen door.

[00:30:53] He went up to the third floor with a knife, murdered Madison and Kaylee, and then left, went downstairs, encounters Xander Kernodel, who was on the second floor, and kills her and then goes into her room and kills her boyfriend, Ethan Chapin, who was sleeping there. Leaves the knife sheath next to Madison, and the snap of that knife sheath has a single source of male DNA. That obviously is a huge tip. And Xander Kernodel had been awake at the time she'd gotten the door dash order.

[00:31:22] It's just really, it's so tragic. It seems like he was targeting either Madison or Kaylee, and then Xander just happened to encounter him, and just very tragic. Thompson said that each victim sustained multiple knife wounds, no evidence of any sexual assault. And the two other roommates survived, despite one of them encountering him.

[00:31:48] He drives through back roads to get back to Washington, doesn't go on Highway 95 because his car would have been picked up by surveillance, and at some point goes, later on goes to the Lewis and Clark Valley where there's a lot of rivers, this confluence of rivers there. Also another serial killer case has been unsolved associated with that valley. But yeah, so he leaves, you know, at the end of the semester he leaves, goes home for the holidays.

[00:32:16] FBI agents, they end up becoming aware of him through this DNA. FBI agents, or they end up becoming aware of him and they kind of like get his father's DNA from trash and, you know, we all kind of know where it goes from there. Thompson described his workplace and his apartment as, quote, Spartan would be a kind characterization, not a lot of stuff there. His car had clearly been like vigorously cleaned.

[00:32:44] And all of that was found 68 weeks after the murders. So at the end it was interesting. Thompson, I don't know if you got this sense, but it did seem like Thompson was crying. It sounded like that when he was mentioning the victims' names at the end. Yeah, he seemed to be welling up and getting emotional. And, you know, I imagine for this, you know, prosecutor's office and for everyone who worked on this case, it's pretty heavy emotional burden.

[00:33:13] So based on all this, Hitler said that he found that there was a factual basis. He went through each count individually with Koberger and he just kept on pleading guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty. And Hitler accepted it and directed it that should be entered. So what's next? What's next is the sentencing.

[00:33:33] And one interesting wrinkle there is that typically when someone faces sentencing, there is a certain process which is followed, including the preparation of a pre-sentencing report, which can take a lot of time. But in this instance, there's not going to be any pre-sentencing report. Neither side wants that. I think everybody has a good idea that the sentence is going to be the maximum sentence.

[00:34:03] So because of that, the timetable is accelerated. And so the sentencing is just going to be in a couple of weeks as opposed to a couple of months. I believe it's going to happen with the week of July 22nd. It's going to happen July 23rd. And Hitler said that for some reason, Thompson said that he believes that they can do it in a day if they start early. And he suggested 830.

[00:34:32] Hitler went with 9 a.m. And Hitler said that for some reason they run over because he wants everyone to have their chance to speak. They can go into July 24th. So the people who are going to be speaking are going to include people, family, and maybe friends of the victims who want to tell the court how this crime has affected him. So the judge can have that information before he imposes a sentence.

[00:34:59] Which means, frankly, it will likely be a very emotionally difficult hearing to watch because we're going to see a lot of people talking about a very significant loss. Yeah, these four young people should be living their lives. I mean, they should be graduating. They should be getting jobs, having families.

[00:35:21] It's not fair that they're not here anymore and that Brian Koberger is, you know, their lives were worth a great deal. And it's tragic. It's really tragic. And so we're going to hear the heartbreak and the emotion and the anger, I imagine. I note that Hitler said that Koberger's ability to wear civilian clothes going forward is revoked. He's going to be in prison garb because he is.

[00:35:50] Has pled guilty, so it's different now. When Thompson asked Hitler if the trial date would be vacated, I noted that Hitler sort of derisively chuckled and said, you know, yes, the trial date will be vacated. You know, this is a this is a judge who's done some high profile cases before. And I could you know, you could tell that he was going to do what he was going to do. But he was also like, I think, you know, it was going to be a lot. So I think there you know, I think there's.

[00:36:18] There's maybe some relief there or some kind of like, OK, at least this is wrapped up. The defense waived pretrial investigation. I imagine they have a lot of perhaps what they feel could be mitigating just through. I mean, like there's no mitigation at this point. I mean, he's stipulated that he's not going to argue for a lenient sentence. Usually a pre-sentence report. The defendant is trying to argue for a more lenient sentence. He's not going to do that. So what's the point?

[00:36:46] We've heard about some of the negative reactions from the families to this plea deal. My understanding is that the Mogan family is also in support of what what's going on here. He I know Ben Mogan, Madison's father, said.

[00:37:07] And. Quote to CBS, quote, we could actually put this behind us and not have these future dates and future things that we don't want to have to be at that we shouldn't have to be at that have to do with this terrible person. We get to just think about the rest of our lives and have to figure out how to do it without Maddie and without the rest of the kids, end quote. So, again, like I think we can be compassionate towards the Consolvis family and the Cronodo family who are not happy with this.

[00:37:33] But we can also remember that, you know, families are rarely in lockstep in cases like this where. There are multiple victims. Different people want different things. And ultimately. You know, it's not it's not necessarily the wrong call for a prosecutor's office to make a decision like this. It's not necessarily that being unkind or unethical or incompetent.

[00:37:56] And it may be something that people disagree with, but I think there's a very strong factual reason and practical reason and reason for justice to do it this way. And I think. You know, we can we can say that families feelings are valid, but I don't think the public should be trying to stir up hate against any. Any. Any figure in this case that's doing their jobs. I agree completely. Whether that's a prosecutor or a defense attorney.

[00:38:27] You know, I don't I don't think that's appropriate. I really don't. I'll be very interested to see the sentencing hearing now. It'll be very interesting indeed. Yeah. As I say, very, very sad. Oh, yeah. Sentent sentencing hearings are difficult to watch. As you said, it's it's hard and it's it's just hard to see that it's really necessary. And I think it can give families a really good.

[00:38:56] Chance to sum up for everyone what they've been through. And it's very empowering if someone took the life of someone you care about. It is very empowering to stand up in court and look them in the eye, if you wish, and tell them exactly what you think of them. I remember when we were at the Randy Small sentencing, he'd killed Bob Adair in Brown County, Indiana.

[00:39:21] And Bob Adair's daughter told this guy who shot her father's head off with a shotgun, just a really horrible over like a stupid property dispute. She looked at him and said, you know, like basically you're you're pond scum. For some reason, that always stuck with me. And like, I think I think the judge kind of admonished her to tone it down. She was cursing a lot at one point. And I don't blame her. Like, that would be me. But I just remember, like, it was just this outpouring of rage.

[00:39:50] And it was it was it was like, you know, good for her, honestly. Yeah, exactly. He was pond scum. And this guy, Koberger, I don't even know what to make of him. I mean, just pathetic waste of a person. But and, you know, I just it's it's tragic. But anyways, anything else you wanted to say? I think not. All right. Well, we'll wrap it up and we'll be following any further developments in this case. But thanks, everybody, for listening.

[00:40:19] Thanks so much for listening to the Murder Sheet. If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover, please email us at murdersheet at gmail dot com. If you have actionable information about an unsolved crime, please report it to the appropriate authorities.

[00:40:40] If you're interested in joining our Patreon, that's available at www.patreon.com slash murdersheet. If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests, you can do so at www.buymeacoffee.com slash murdersheet. We very much appreciate any support.

[00:41:03] Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee, who composed the music for the Murder Sheet and who you can find on the web at kevintg.com. If you're looking to talk with other listeners about a case we've covered, you can join the Murder Sheet discussion group on Facebook. We mostly focus our time on research and reporting, so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account, but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages.

[00:41:33] Thanks again for listening. You know, Anya, can I ask you something? Yeah. I got a problem here. We're going to be going out to dinner tonight with our friends and we're going to have to split the bill. How on earth can we manage to do that in a convenient, technology-friendly fashion that I won't mess up? Trial by combat? No. What about Cash App? Cash App? Why, that's one of our sponsors. Cash App? Cash App?

[00:42:01] No, but seriously, this is one of those things, whenever anyone's asking us to do any sort of technological thing, we're immediately like, oh, geez, this is going to be a whole incident. This, you did it, you didn't even need my help, you just did it. We didn't have to put our heads together and figure anything out. You set it up, it was super easy, it's been so easy to use, the convenience is unbeatable, in my opinion, in terms of other, I mean, I will say one competitor of theirs we used once,

[00:42:27] when we were setting up our t-shirt business, never again. I'm in a blood feud with that company now. They acted like we sold too many t-shirts, which we were trying to do, and that we were somehow suspect, and then they kicked us off their platform, and it was a whole mess, and our money got frozen. Cash App has been the opposite of that. It's been a breeze, it's been a dream to work with them, and it's been just so convenient. And I would really encourage people to get in on this, because you're missing out if you're not using Cash App. This is just so convenient.

[00:42:57] For limited time only, new Cash App users can use our exclusive code to earn some additional cash. For real, there's no cash. Just download Cash App and sign up. Use our exclusive referral code MSHEAT in your profile. Send $5 to a friend within 14 days, and you'll get $10 dropped right into your account. Terms apply? That's money. That's Cash App. You know, Anya, we are in this true crime space. It's such a difficult place to be in sometimes.

[00:43:25] And one of the reasons is because you're talking about cases that people have a real emotional involvement in. And so if you reach a conclusion that some people don't like online, they're going to, like, start attacking you and even threatening you. Yes. And I know when that first started happening to us, it was really, really unsettling and difficult. And I know one thing that really helped us feel better and safer to continue on with the show was SimpliSafe.

[00:43:53] SimpliSafe has been a company we've trusted for years. We've used them for years to protect our home. And one of the reasons is they just give us that peace of mind. As Kevin said, we're no strangers to controversy. And sometimes that can mean getting threats or getting basically bailed threats where people say they're going to come hurt you because they disagree with what you're saying about a case.

[00:44:12] And so with SimpliSafe, we're able to kind of keep the murder sheet train shugging along and not worry about that too much because we know that they are so proactive about how they keep homes secure. This is a company, I mean, their new Active Guard Outdoor Protection, that's there to stop break-ins before they happen. They're not just letting you know about, oh, this bad thing happened. They're trying to prevent it from even happening. So you don't have to go through that trauma.

[00:44:38] They have live monitoring agents on hand 24-7 to possibly detect suspicious activity around the property. They have cameras. And also one thing I like about them is they're flexible. They know that different people have different needs. They know that if you're a renter, you can't necessarily set up the same amount of equipment and it can't be on the walls permanently as you could do if you're a homeowner. So they're great for renters. They're great for homeowners. No contracts. No hidden fees.

[00:45:03] Visit SimpliSafe.com slash msheet to claim 50% off a new system with a professional monitoring plan and get your first month free. That's SimpliSafe.com slash msheet. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. So we want to shout out one of our wonderful sponsors right now, and that sponsor is Happy Mammoth. This is a wonderful natural wellness brand. We've been using it, and it's been terrific. They're a great solution if you feel like you might be dealing with some hormone disruptors.

[00:45:32] I mean, that kind of happens to everyone. It's in the air. It's in the food. It's in lots of different products. So it's really reduced your cravings. Yeah, for me, it's I mean, I get kind of nuts about my cravings. Sometimes I will, you know, suddenly really want Macintosh apples, which aren't even in season and various other things. We all know I've been stealing a lot of cereal recently or allegedly, I should say. And so to kind of help beat that, I've been using their Hormone Harmony supplement. It's just a supplement. You take it a couple of times, you know, a couple doses.

[00:46:03] And I feel like it's boosted my gut health, to be honest. It's also something that women who are in perimenopause or menopause, they can use it, and it's going to reduce your hot flashes. You're going to have more energy, get to sleep better. So it's really good for women of all ages. But for me, the gut health element of it has been really special. So if you're interested, for a limited time, you can get 15% off your entire first order at happymammoth.com. Just use the code MSHEET at checkout.

[00:46:28] That's happymammoth.com and use the code MSHEET for 15% off today. Football Energy The Stay