You Never Can Forget: An Interview With Chris Davis, the Host of True Crime Storytellers

[00:00:00] Content Warning, this episode contains discussion of violence and murder. On November 17, 1978, four young people, Jane Freight, Ruth Shelton, Dan Davis, and Mark Flemmons, went missing from the Bergeshoff Restaurant in Speedway, Indiana. Their bodies were discovered later that weekend in a wooded area some 20 miles away.

[00:00:27] All these years later, no one has ever been charged in the matter. The Bergeshoff murders is the first case that we worked on together. In fact, it's what brought us together. It remains uniquely important to us.

[00:00:40] We always encourage people to talk about it to try to keep the public interested in it. We really believe that consistently getting attention for a case can potentially help in eventually getting it solved.

[00:00:51] So we were pleased to hear that there was a new podcast that is going to debut by offering a multi-episode look at Bergeshoff. It is hosted by Chris Davis, who formally hosted the 3C podcast, which also covered this case.

[00:01:05] Now in the past we have had some disagreements on this case with Chris, and of course we do not necessarily endorse whatever conclusions he may make about the case. But the thing is, we feel that having multiple perspectives out there on the case is really helpful.

[00:01:21] And one thing that we definitely agree on with Chris is that this case deserves attention and the families deserve answers. My name is Ania Kane. I'm a journalist. And I'm Kevin Greenlee. I'm an attorney. And this is The Murder Sheet.

[00:01:36] We're a true crime podcast focused on original reported interviews and deep dives into murder cases. We're The Murder Sheet. And this is You Never Can Forget, an interview with Chris Davis, the host of True Crime Storytellers.

[00:01:53] Let's start out by can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you first got interested in this case? Yeah, so my name is Chris Davis.

[00:02:46] And I am, for the most part, just a long time true crime fan and consumer of all of the different formats, be it podcasts or your date line TV shows and that kind of stuff. All the way back to unsolved mysteries when I was a kid.

[00:03:05] And then of course I've been a lifelong Indiana resident. My wife and I, actually before we were even married, moved down to just outside the Speedway area. And I was listening to a podcast back in about 2017 that did just a one-off episode about The Burger Chef Murders.

[00:03:25] And I started just hearing names of places that I drove by every day. And I was like, that's interesting. You know, that's two blocks that way and that's right next to the, right across the street from the restaurant.

[00:03:39] We eat that all the time or the coals we go shopping at as far as the actual old Burger Chef building there on Crawford Zill Road.

[00:03:47] So I found the Facebook group and just started diving into as much as I could with old newspaper articles and the group and everything.

[00:03:54] And I'm just like, what really stood out to me was that so much of what was in that podcast that I listened to and not to say that they did a bad job.

[00:04:03] They were just dealing with what I think was just poor information that's been out there for decades or at least lack of good information. It was like, you know, they're just regurgitating so many things that don't logically make sense. So, you know, let me dig into this.

[00:04:19] And one day I just came home from work and I told my wife, I was like, I think we can solve this case. Like I don't know why I'm not it's been a while.

[00:04:27] I don't remember ever being so bold about something that's so far outside of my lane. I'm a lifelong salesman. So, you know, it just but but I was just like, I've got to get involved with this somehow.

[00:04:39] And for the last five years, I've been neck deep in interviewing folks and obtaining files and reading old newspaper articles. And that's where we stand today.

[00:04:50] And I know you had a podcast on this case in the past, but now you're getting ready to launch a new podcast on the case. Is that right? Yeah.

[00:05:00] So back in 2019 with the help of my wife, we started the Fertile City Crime podcast and kicked it off with the Burger Tip Murders being our main focus.

[00:05:11] And, you know, I'd long been a fan of the crowd source type podcast where, you know, you'll put out there the information you have but make it clear like this story is not complete.

[00:05:21] You know, so if you've got an area of expertise or if you've got a knowledge of certain people or certain areas or a certain era in time, especially when we're talking about a crime that took place so long ago,

[00:05:33] you know, get involved here. You know, that was the big thing is I'm not wasn't trying to solve the case, you know, even though I made that bold statement to my wife and my kitchen, it was, I think there's something that can be uncovered here.

[00:05:45] And with the right people talking about it in the right way, I think something can be done. And so that was the impetus to getting started there. And I just ran into a lot more hurdles and resistance than I expected.

[00:05:59] And, you know, especially in regards to this case in regards to getting a hold of files in terms of, you know, people around the case be it, you know, some of the victims family members and some of the investigators, you know, from from back in the day and just people who were maybe in the less than

[00:06:16] every scene back in the day that that might have, you know, good information. They were really open and had a lot of good experiences there.

[00:06:24] But with the current investigative team and everything just trying to get a hold of and just making, you know, being able to verify good information and put it out to public that became very difficult. So we actually moved on to covering a couple other cases.

[00:06:39] And then when COVID hit, that became really hard. You weren't comfortable going into somebody's home and asking them for an interview because, you know, you didn't know yet what the mechanisms were of COVID and how dangerous that was for folks. So I decided to step away.

[00:06:54] But with the release of the FBI files and then just naturally because I hadn't been involved in the case, some people coming to me with stories that kind of came to them after the FBI files came out.

[00:07:09] I've decided to kind of just do an update and, you know, use that to launch a brand new podcast. I'm calling True Crime Storytellers.

[00:07:18] Will this new True Crime Storytellers podcast, will it be like 3C, which as you said was very much a deep dive into different Indiana cases or will be a mix of different things?

[00:07:29] So we're definitely not going to focus solely on Indiana cases and it will be different. But I will tell people, you know, if there are people out there who happen to have enjoyed 3C and like that Indiana focus,

[00:07:42] Burger Chef isn't the only Indiana case I plan to cover.

[00:07:46] And we may get into a little more in a little bit the whole premise of the podcast, but the cases I cover is really going to be dependent on who's willing to join me on the journey on a certain case.

[00:07:58] So it's going to be deep dives. Let's call it medium dive.

[00:08:03] And it's going to be a serious tone still. You know, we're not here to laugh and joke about, you know, what's the most horrible day in these people's lives, whether you know, or, you know, last day, unfortunately, for some of them,

[00:08:20] it's going to have a very serious tone still. But it's not going to take on that speculative tone, I think, that I had before where I'm saying, hey, there's gaps in the information. I'm really trying to come with a completely congealed story for people.

[00:08:39] You talked a little bit about the premise of the podcast. Can you explain that to us? Yeah, so just blatantly, and you'll hear some of this in the first episode kind of read out in a little better detail.

[00:08:53] But I had been kicking around the idea, especially after the FBI files came out again of getting involved in podcasting. And I enjoyed doing it. I enjoy the research. I enjoy the production. And obviously, doing an update on the Burger Chef case.

[00:09:09] And I was just driving around one day and I was looking to another podcast and I heard a quote from Steve Jobs, with something along the lines of those who tell the story hold the power.

[00:09:22] And it made me think about the experiences that I and you and Anya had as well, trying to get to the real story in these cases that we want to bring to the public and help find justice.

[00:09:35] And you get these situations, especially here in Indiana where the law enforcement or the judicial branch holds so much power and they're able to hold the narrative and control the narrative. What gets let out, how it gets spun, who gets access to it.

[00:09:54] And I think with the, and I hope you would agree, Kevin, with the work we've done over the years in Burger Chef and then, you know, I'm trying to branch out and explore other people have done similar work in other cases

[00:10:08] and to take that narrative back. That's the premise is, you know, this is an old unsolved case, whatever they've been doing for whether it's 45 years in this case or 25 years in another.

[00:10:20] It's simply not working. Let's let a family member or somebody with knowledge of the case take that narrative back for the public on behalf of the public and and quit just buying into everything that that law enforcement says.

[00:10:36] I think that's very interesting. I remember a while back on the show, we interviewed Michael Arnfeld, who is among other things a writer of true crime books.

[00:10:49] And he talked about how there should be like model legislation that if a law enforcement agency has not solved a murder in a certain amount of time, they should have to make the files available either to family members

[00:11:05] or to legitimate investigators. And it sounds like you would agree with that.

[00:11:09] I agree with that. And, and, you know, it can be there can be a lot of gray area in there. And, and, you know, you want to be sensitive to, you know, the people that are truly have a connection to the case.

[00:11:21] You know, I wouldn't say that, you know, I'd be in favor of a law necessarily where just anybody or even anybody who holds a media credential could get access to a case after a certain amount of time.

[00:11:33] But, you know, you and I have both had conversations with Ruth Shelton sister. And, you know, if she were to have faith in either one of us to cover this case in full with access to that case file, I think that should after, you know, 45 years 25 years

[00:11:51] some point that that should be partially her call.

[00:11:55] Yeah, definitely. And I agree with you. I think there is a gray area we have seen a huge spate of solves of cold cases using DNA in recent times right and wouldn't want you know advances in technology to not really come to fruition in some of these

[00:12:11] cases because the files have already been released but in other cases it seems like there would be almost no reason not to release them because there is no DNA evidence or basically it's kind of one last shot.

[00:12:23] I wanted to ask you Chris. I don't even know how to ask this because it's so crazy. Do you ever you've really delved so deeply into Burger Chef as as you were looking into it did you ever feel like you were losing your mind

[00:12:37] because I think I'll tell you this my perception of Burger Chef is on the outside it looks like, okay we can crack this. And then you get into it and it's like driving around with a guy who's giving you directions and you keep on coming to forks in the road or turn

[00:12:52] off and asking him okay which way and so well you could go that way or that way. Who knows. And it's like what like I mean that's how it feels to me and I'm just curious what's been your perception dealing with such an unwieldy expansive case like that.

[00:13:05] So here's where it's been two ways that it's kind of you know met those criteria for me. One it's made me a very usually has a negative connotation but a very duplicitous person in that most of the people in my private life don't know Chris Davis the

[00:13:25] the podcaster or Chris Davis the the murderer researcher that's just not I don't I don't know I mean there's a lot of people now I guess in my private life that I came to through the process of making the podcast so they know me that way but I don't know

[00:13:41] I don't know if I've ever seen anybody I went to high school with you know anybody outside of my family besides my wife my oldest son and my parent you know so so it's been this weird dichotomy of like turning it off and turning it on you know so there's

[00:13:54] a little bit that a little bit more intentional that can weigh on you a little bit but the but the thing in specific relation to the burgership case where it gets frustrating and makes you think you might be crazy is you wonder who's ever actually listening this is a case where a lot of people had their solidly formed opinion on this

[00:14:16] case before I was even born so here I am trying to not even necessarily change their mind but just getting you know hoping they'll open be open to new information it's like a phrase I heard today and I hope it gets this right if I get new data I have to re-evaluate and that's exactly what I'm trying to do there's

[00:14:38] there's new data I may have come to the same conclusion that Kit York did back in 1979 I may have come to the same conclusion as Mel Willsie did back in 1986 if that's all the information I ever had but there's new information

[00:14:58] there's there's interviews I'm gonna I'm gonna give some information on my podcast that came from an individual that I think should have had a dozen interviews with the Indiana State police and he says he has zero and so his information is new information

[00:15:16] and so that's that's the frustrating thing is I'm not asking anybody to listen to my theory I do try to do a lot of work to debunk the old theories and I guess maybe from a vanity standpoint I wish people would buy into that but the biggest thing is be open to new information

[00:15:33] and so often people are not they just immediately fire back with I don't need to hear it I've known so and so did it since 1983 and that's where it really drives me great

[00:15:46] well first of all I must say I'm very tantalized and very interested in hearing the your episodes where you feature this person who has never been talked to by the Indiana State police that will be very interesting

[00:15:59] and secondly you talk about trying to debunk old theories and things what I think is interesting about that is when I personally look at some of the old theories about a case whether it's this case or any case really

[00:16:16] I think a part of me is hoping that the theory is true because that means okay there's an answer here and in this case I was hoping you mentioned Ken York his theory was that it was a robbery gang if that was true that would provide us all with some closure

[00:16:35] you mentioned Mill Willsie he his theory was that it was a man named Don Forester if that was true that would provide us with closure can you discuss a little bit the robbery gang and the Forester theory and why you don't believe them to be true

[00:16:51] yeah and you know I'll start with I think that my desire to debunk theory came from exactly the same place where you say you start seeing a theory and saying let's prove that everybody else before it has been hitting singles let's hit the home run

[00:17:06] and see if there's a nugget here where we can prove this and relieve a lot of stress for everybody and then you dive in and it's like oh boy there's a lot of information that hasn't been included in this narrative for all these years

[00:17:22] so you know I could spend several hours which I plan to do on both of those theories you know but just in short in terms of the robbery gang theory which the idea that this was a robbery gone wrong a robbery where somebody was recognized is not a poor theory

[00:17:43] but that theory has been associated with two or three of a group of five men basically ever since the week after this these murders happen and as you dig into each little part of it you know whether it be the appearance of the men at the time of the murders versus the appearance of you know suspect potential suspects that were seen by eyewitnesses

[00:18:08] or whether it be statements that were given that were then you know misconstrued in the press or whether it be timing conflicts on the night of the of the murders there's just there's a lot of avenues to go down where you gotta say you know before

[00:18:25] before we say so confident in that theory we have to a either find better proof or be put it on the shelf for a little while and go go see if we can find something else that's a little more plausible you know and and the same thing is true with with the

[00:18:43] the the big thing for me comes down to a well couple things one investigator from the state police who are contemporaneous observers of everything that happened with forester and will tell you that he was a lot of his information was bad at the start

[00:19:03] he was fed information he was interviewed in rooms with photos of you know locations related to the to the murders and and evidence related to the murders so

[00:19:15] you know that that cast a shadow over it and then of course having seen his tape statements flash confession from 1988 and kind of understanding to his motivation in that he was having a tough time in prison at that time

[00:19:33] and he had just seen back in 1985 hey if I spring them along like I know something about these murders they'll get me out of this bad place for a while and I think he thought the same thing was going to happen in 1988 but again I've now seen with my own eyes

[00:19:49] most of the information you give there is very bad information and and completely unfactual in relation to this crime.

[00:19:57] I think it's so I love what you're saying because I think it's so important for people to keep in mind just the concept of a comfortable theory. I'll tell you when you know early on if I probably would have wanted it to be forester

[00:20:13] because he was punished he was sent to prison for 95 years he died there of cancer and there's something comforting about okay well the guy who probably did this you know got his just desserts but it's very very uncomfortable for people to sit with the fact that

[00:20:33] we don't know who did this and they might be enjoying life right now it's not a good ending and I think that prompts sometimes people to go towards a more comfortable theory and I guess you know how do you view that in terms of like how you know at the same time I guess all of us

[00:20:51] were so in this that it might be tempting for us to kind of become hardened during in our opinions like how do you entertain different theories without necessarily becoming so dedicated to one that it blinds you to other alternative

[00:21:05] you know explanations. Well I guess you know personally I have a lot of of empathy for the victims and sympathy for the victim family and many of their friends still still you know talk about you know the experiences they had with them

[00:21:25] and how much how much they missed them so a lot of sympathy for them and that's real but I don't get attached in a positive or a negative way mentally to the suspect. So I think that's one way that it's helpful yeah it's easy to just absolutely hate a guy like

[00:21:47] Donald Forrester which which if I step back and I'm not talking about this case I could say all kinds of nasty things about Donald Forrester but but somehow and I don't even know that I

[00:22:00] consciously chose to do this but I have not really when I discuss the the suspects whether it's suspects of these popular theories or suspects that I have generated I just don't have any emotion about who they were

[00:22:19] I guess with one exception and and you know you guys can vouch for me or not I think Kevin knows that I've been pretty negative on the robbery gang theory for a while but eventually I did get to speak with one of the men who was a member of that

[00:22:35] robbery gang and I think because I had already kind of lowered my guard and said I just don't think this is plausible when I spoke to him I had a very positive vibe with him I had a very positive interaction with him and positive image of him going forward.

[00:22:54] Right. I that's interesting earlier you were talking a bit about having to be duplicitous and I think you're referring to how the people in your private life may not know Chris the podcaster may know a different person but I was thinking another way that when you do this sort of work you're a little bit duplicitous is that sometimes when you talk to people who may be suspects or persons of

[00:23:20] interests you can't always tell them everything you're thinking I know for instance I spent a number of hours with Alan Pruitt and my thoughts on Alan Pruitt and my opinions on Alan Pruitt are all over the map but certainly there were times when I was sitting there talking with him and I was thinking this guy could have done it

[00:23:45] this guy could have been one of the killers and of course I never told him that and I'm just curious if you had experiences where you were talking with someone and you thought they might be involved or have at least guilty knowledge but you had to hold your tongue and how did that make you feel.

[00:24:04] Yeah so I can think of two instances pretty clearly actually three instances to two people. One of them happens to be a gentleman that you and I spoke with together at a bar in Canby Indiana as that conversation unfolded.

[00:24:23] I'll say right here I stepped away from the table and I was recording the conversation and I recorded in private that I feel like I'm almost sitting here listening to a confession but I had to come back to the table and try to continue our conversation in the same

[00:24:39] clink and beer bottle pleasant manner we had already been talking you know so that was a little tough and the more I've learned it'd be even hard I don't know that I could do that with that particular individual to this day I think if I were to speak to him again it would have to be a very blunt conversation.

[00:24:56] And then there was another man who was his brother were friends of Mark Flemish and when I first started talking to him I felt like he's lived a rough life a lot of involvement with drugs and everything at first it almost just felt like I was talking to a wall but at some point it actually began to appear that he was holding back information from me

[00:25:26] and even that he was fielding his brother from me it was hard to not just blatantly come out and say look I can't imagine a person acting the way you're acting and talking the way you're talking if you don't have more to say.

[00:25:43] So yeah those those those interactions are real and something I never envisioned when I got involved in this but but yeah very real and I imagine you've been through plenty of that with not only Burger Chef but but Delphi.

[00:25:54] Yeah it's been some interesting experiences. You know one thing that I think you know we appreciate about you Chris is that you've done you know the shoe leather on the ground talking to people actually going out and talking to people or trying to talk to people that really does make a difference in terms of understanding a complicated case and you know I guess maybe looking back before you started this and then looking what you've done with not only Burger Chef but some of the other cases.

[00:26:24] That you've covered. How do you like it seems to me and I'll just be curious on your take on this that like oftentimes crime stories are a lot more complicated like you're only getting a small fraction of the information in the press and how is actually looking into some of the stuff maybe altered your views on crime and how it's reported and things like that.

[00:26:47] Well I because my original podcast focus on Indiana cases. I hate to paint this answer with too broad of a brush because I don't know how things work everywhere and I think there are certain places Florida for example with their much more open you know public access laws might work very differently.

[00:27:07] I could move to Tampa and start this podcast focused around Florida cases and maybe you know go off like gangbusters. I don't know but I so I can only speak for you know what I've experienced here and it's a very it's an adversarial relationship that the state police at least seem to have with the media in that direction from state police to media.

[00:27:36] But then the media seems to not be willing to be adversarial back and ask the hard questions because then they know they'll lose access to whatever it is there. They are already getting.

[00:27:48] And so again it goes back to what I said the whole premise of the new podcast is is hoping to be is that finding some way to wrestle at least a little bit of that control back from a an organization like the state police.

[00:28:03] You know another case I hope to to discuss is the West Memphis 3 and I think you look at the way authorities have handled that case not only in the original investigation but in the the CYA that's gone on you know since that case gained all of its popularity and since the three you know convicted suspects there and got out with their

[00:28:26] out there like there's just a tone of we can hold the narrative what are you going to do about it and that's just it's not it doesn't sit well with me. Our listeners are probably smiling now because they know we have some pretty hot takes on West Memphis.

[00:28:40] We need to go into that. Spicy takes but yes. Feel free to if I ever get there feel free to listen and write a review. Do you think the Bergerchev case is solvable?

[00:28:54] I have to answer this by saying something that a lot of people are probably going to disagree with.

[00:28:59] I don't buy into the concept that information getting out first the case especially a case that's this old mouth when I first started my podcast Delphi was was a fresh case and I felt that that you would be interfering because they hadn't collected all of the information that needed to be collected.

[00:29:20] I think whether it's state police or speedway police they've been given every viable opportunity to collect all pertinent information so whether now it's sharing the information they collected or going out and collecting new information and sharing it.

[00:29:35] They have their opportunity so I don't think that hinders a case.

[00:29:39] So I think that yeah with the right amount of discussion about this case it's solvable and I think there's some kind of evidence that could lead to something if it's tested the right way and tested against the right things or against the right people.

[00:29:57] I'll try not to spend too much of your episode bashing current investigators but I think unfortunately we've got a person in charge of this case right now that doesn't thoroughly understand the mechanisms of physical forensics and DNA and so forth.

[00:30:13] Here's a question in regards to just kind of the premise of the new podcast and I think you've made some very interesting points around like law enforcement and how how police can really influence a narrative how the media can be reluctant to criticize which is definitely a phenomenon that's pretty obvious to behold.

[00:30:31] Here and frankly I've seen it the other way to I've seen in cases where there's a you know a good defense team can really kind of grab hold of a narrative and set it as well.

[00:30:42] So I think there's different players in true crime stories that can really set a narrative and make it hard to really evaluate things objectively.

[00:30:49] What would your tips be for true crime listeners to try to amass information without necessarily letting these biases permeate you know what you're consuming almost because I think sometimes it can be hard to even pick up on that happening until it's too late.

[00:31:06] Well I think you've got to look at the sources of information like a game of telephone. So if the source is firsthand so if you're communicating directly with a witness or let's say you're listening to a true crime podcast and the podcaster has a witness on there.

[00:31:28] What that witness says ought to be given not necessarily great weight but great consideration.

[00:31:36] But then as you move away from that person as you move to law enforcement telling you this is what we heard from a witness or you move to a podcaster just saying this is what I heard from a witness or a YouTuber or somebody on Reddit which I wish somebody to shut that website down.

[00:31:56] Then you know then you've got to say OK we're getting farther along in this telephone game. So I just I can't give as much consideration to what I'm hearing now.

[00:32:08] I say that to say I'm going to have to deliver some information in this Bergercheff case without divulging a source. I understand that by my own logic that information should get less consideration from a listener.

[00:32:22] But I'm moving forward knowing where the information came from and therefore giving it a lot of consideration. So yeah I mean it depends on what stage of the process you're in whether you're just a listener just a consumer or whether you're actually in it.

[00:32:39] But I think if you just think about it all as a big game of telephone and how close you are to the source could determine how much weight you give. Again not weight not believability but consideration time thinking about energy spent thinking about is this true.

[00:32:57] Is this likely does this make sense. Does it sound like they're lying. You know that's that's kind of how I do it both as a listener and as I'm trying to put together projects like this.

[00:33:09] Is there I mean I'm curious do you consider yourself to have a favorite theory in Bergercheff at this point. Not one that you're definitely 100 percent committed to because we know that that's that's not how you roll.

[00:33:20] That's not how we roll either. But is there one that you kind of are feeling especially interested in at this point. So I have two two theories that could could mesh or could could remain completely separate.

[00:33:37] One theory is that this was not a robbery gone wrong but whoever came to that restaurant that night was expecting someone else to be there.

[00:33:47] That was an initial target and when that person wasn't there but they had shown themselves to be aggressive and maybe even have been recognized by people at the four employees or one of the four employees.

[00:34:03] That's when things went sideways. The the other theory and again these two could combine at some point is what I kind of call my bad penny theory.

[00:34:15] Whenever I kind of go down an avenue of whether it's victimology whether it's geography whether it's timeline whether it's criminal history of individuals knowledge of certain areas similarity of types of crime.

[00:34:31] Far too often I come back to one individual. I've been referring to him now as my bad penny and that's a man by the name of Daryl Crabtree. Oh yes. Bad penny indeed. Yeah in more ways than once. Yes.

[00:34:45] But but if I don't go looking for him and then his name or his mother's name or his home address or a crime he was linked to or a prison. He did time in pops up on my screen and I'm just like not this guy yet. Yeah.

[00:35:07] So then so then I've got to give it some attention. I've got to give it some consideration. Well there's certainly a wealth of material for you to cover. I'm really looking forward to the podcast. Where can people find it.

[00:35:25] So the plan is to just as before with with Circle City crime to be on all the major podcast platforms or Apple Podcasts your Spotify your I heart those different things.

[00:35:37] I want to have I'm going to run this a little different instead of calling these seasons. I'm going to call them series and I'm going to try to produce every episode or a majority of the episodes for a given case.

[00:35:55] Before I even release them and then you know then we may go sometime be it two weeks six weeks whatever while I put together the next series on a different case. But the plan is right now to launch the first episode of true crime storytellers on January 15.

[00:36:17] Is there any social media or anything like that that people can follow along to make sure that they stay up to date and don't miss it when it comes out.

[00:36:24] Yeah. So yeah I haven't put all of that together. I'm going to be honest. I'm not planning on being as promotional as I was before.

[00:36:33] You know I doing doing a podcast a true crime podcast and feeling like your intentions are are pure but having to do this commercial thing so that you're what you think is very important information gets out to as many people as possible.

[00:36:52] I just don't feel like I'm comfortable with that anymore. I'm going to put it out there and I appreciate you guys having me on. I know you've got a built in audience that's hopefully going to give it a listen.

[00:37:03] You know what and I'm part of the Facebook group you know related to the case and I know there are some people in there who have said good things about my previous work and you know I'll let them know that it's going to be out there but I'm going to keep it pretty simple with what I'm doing social media one.

[00:37:21] I'm going to be honest with you guys. I haven't emailed that up simply true crime storytellers and that tellers with an F plural at gmail.com and I'll also be true crime storytellers on Twitter or X now.

[00:37:36] And then I do plan on setting up my own Facebook group for case discussion which I don't have that set up yet but again it'll be the same kind of thing true crime storytellers you know discussion group on Facebook so we'll start there and and I'm going to try as best I can to keep the focus to the production of the podcast and the accuracy of the information

[00:38:00] and let the chip fall where they may as far as listenership and so on and so forth but I appreciate you guys definitely with this first initial introduction. Absolutely well thank you so much for coming on Chris we appreciate it and we really can't wait to listen.

[00:38:17] I appreciate it yeah I look forward to sharing. Thanks so much to Chris for coming on our show we really appreciate it. Thanks so much for listening to the murder sheet.

[00:38:26] If you have a tip concerning one of the cases we cover please email us at murder sheet at gmail.com. If you have actionable information about an unsolved crime please report it to the appropriate authorities. If you're interested in joining our Patreon that's available at www.patreon.com.

[00:38:53] If you want to tip us a bit of money for records requests you can do so at www.buymeacoffee.com. We very much appreciate any support.

[00:39:07] Special thanks to Kevin Tyler Greenlee who composed the music for the murder sheet and who you can find on the web at kevintg.com. If you're looking to talk with other listeners about a case we've covered you can join the murder sheet discussion group on Facebook.

[00:39:25] We mostly focus our time on research and reporting so we're not on social media much. We do try to check our email account but we ask for patience as we often receive a lot of messages. Thanks again for listening.